Wuhan Virus

[FlayedAngel]

https://pics.conservativememes.com/excuse-me-captan-sensors-indicate-that-we-live-in-a-60072142.png

[~Rocktar~]

Fail attempt at false equivalence is fail.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I mean my safety isn’t the governments responsibility either, as the picture you posted states.

Do you believe your safety is the government's responsibility?

[Solkern]

Do you believe your safety is the government's responsibility?

When you make a general statement like that? You’re damn right it is.
If you break down into something more specific, it could be yes or no.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

When you make a general statement like that? You’re damn right it is.
If you break down into something more specific, it could be yes or no.

Ok, let me be more specific. Do you believe your personal safety is the government's responsibility?

[Solkern]

Ok, let me be more specific. Do you believe your personal safety is the government's responsibility?

In my personal opinion, there is no, yes or no to that question either. It would depend on the situation at hand.
We have police, who’s job and motto are to “serve and protect”, is it not? If personal safety in a statement like that was a no, and you believe in that, why do we have a police force?
If you believe it’s a yes, in any capacity, then a police force would be Necessary.

We also have laws to protect ones personal safety, restraining orders, for example.

So, SHM, if a husband continually beats his wife, she leaves him, moves across country, and he tracks her down, beats her again and threatens to kill her, is that her responsibility to stop it?
If an adult Harasses and beats a senior citizen is her/his Personal safety just hers/his or does a fall on society and/or the government

I guess it also depends on what you classify as personal safety as well.


Now if I decide to eat glass, no that’s not the governments responsibility.

[ClydeR]

You've know this was coming, and now it is here. Its' time for us to talk about encephalitis lethargica, also known as "sleeping sickness."

Picture it. 1918. World I is raging in Europe. As the year progresses, the United States is pouring more resources and personnel into the war effort. Though denied by the US President, a deadly virus is sweeping across the world, killing more people than the war. At the same time, hardly remembered today compared to the momentous events of the time, a baffling second medical evil is doing its work. All around the world, people fall asleep, seemingly at random. Most sleepers can be roused long enough to eat. Some of them eventually "awaken." Others sleep forever.

Sleeping sickness had appeared at other isolated times in human history. What caused the sleeping sickness? Nobody knows. Doctors never discovered the cause. They don't know if it was a virus or bacteria or bewitched apples. Although a separate illness, it appears to have been given power by the widespread flu virus. Could something similar happen in 2020?

If you feel tired, you may be falling victim to sleeping sickness. Or you could just be tired.

Sleeping sickness got a round of attention in 2010, when the book "Asleep (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030CVRWA/)" recounted the phenomenon.

[Methais]

You've know this was coming, and now it is here. Its' time for us to talk about encephalitis lethargica, also known as "sleeping sickness."

Picture it. 1918. World I is raging in Europe. As the year progresses, the United States is pouring more resources and personnel into the war effort. Though denied by the US President, a deadly virus is sweeping across the world, killing more people than the war. At the same time, hardly remembered today compared to the momentous events of the time, a baffling second medical evil is doing its work. All around the world, people fall asleep, seemingly at random. Most sleepers can be roused long enough to eat. Some of them eventually "awaken." Others sleep forever.

Sleeping sickness had appeared at other isolated times in human history. What caused the sleeping sickness? Nobody knows. Doctors never discovered the cause. They don't know if it was a virus or bacteria or bewitched apples. Although a separate illness, it appears to have been given power by the widespread flu virus. Could something similar happen in 2020?

If you feel tired, you may be falling victim to sleeping sickness. Or you could just be tired.

Sleeping sickness got a round of attention in 2010, when the book "Asleep (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030CVRWA/)" recounted the phenomenon.

So that's what Biden has. In addition to his dementia of course.

[ClydeR]

It's Dr. Birx's time.




https://i.imgur.com/P9opaqf.png
https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/1290284120552046597

[Stolis]

Was it pathetic that Pelosi said bad stuff about Birx? Or was it pathetic Birx said stuff about the White House because of what Pelosi said about her? Doesn't really specify.

[Tgo01]

Was it pathetic that Pelosi said bad stuff about Birx? Or was it pathetic Birx said stuff about the White House because of what Pelosi said about her? Doesn't really specify.

Sure sounds like he’s calling Birx’s response pathetic.

But this is a false equivalence because the complaint from whoever that is was attacking Pelosi for trying to undermine Birx. I don’t think calling someone’s response pathetic is undermining them. But Democrats are gonna Democrat.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Trump just defended Birz in his presser, live on TV 25 minutes ago.

[ClydeR]

Shouldn't the President already know if the U.S. is doing worse than most other countries without having to say he'll look it up?


Journalist: On coronavirus, you've talked a lot about, when you talk about the mortality rate, the death as a proportion of cases. I understand that is significant when you look at how deadly the virus is or how good a country does at keeping people alive. But when you're talking about the scope of this virus, you will get the percentage of the population that's died, there's only three countries that have more deaths than the U.S. how do you explain that? Why the percentage of population has died is so much higher in the U.S.?

Trump: I think actually the numbers are lower than others. I'll get back to you on that. But we proportionally are lower than almost all countries. We're at the bottom of the list. And relative to cases also we're at the bottom of the list, which is a good thing. But I can get back to you. We have four or five different lists on that and we're generally speaking at the very bottom of the list.

More... (https://www.c-span.org/video/?474531-1/president-trump-comments-mortality-rate-covid-19-us)

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I don't care who you, "Kung Flu" is some funny shit.

[~Rocktar~]

Just some commentary that came across my feed today:


It's not about masks. Open your mind to the POSSIBILITY......

In 4 months, the U.S. transformed into an obedient socialist country. Government dictated what events are acceptable to attend. Violent protests that instill fear are OK but church services, family funerals and patriotic celebrations are dangerous. And you bought it without a fight.

Standing in a graduation line is a "safety hazard". Small businesses were forced to close but crowds to support the corporate money machine at WalMart, Lowes and Home Depot are OK.

Come on. It's "just a mask" & "safety precautions".

How about a little hush money. Here's $2,400 that we stole out of your pay check in the first place. Enjoy. Buy something with it. From a big corporation.

Cash is dirty. We can't give change. There's a coin shortage. Use your card. In 4 months, they convinced you to use a traceable card for everything.

In less than 4 months, government closed public schools then "restructured" education under the guise of "public safety". In less than 4 months, our government demonstrated how easily people assimilate to "guidelines" that have NO scientific premise whatsoever when you are fearful.

In less than 4 months, our government successfully instilled fear in a majority of the population in America that allows them to control every aspect of your life. Including what you eat, where you go, and who you see.

And the most dangerous and terrifying part? People are not afraid of the government who removed their freedom. They're afraid of their neighbors, family and friends.

And they hate those who won't comply.

It's absolutely terrifying to me that so many people don't question "authority". They are willing to surrender their critical thinking skills and independence. They just... gave up without thinking. Without a fight.

Do you know what's coming next?
"It's just a vaccine. Come on. It's for the greater good".

Wait until you're told that you can't enter any store or business without proof of the Covid-19 vaccine. Wait until you can't go to public events or get on a plane without proof of receiving the vaccine.

To everyone that doesn't believe this is possible - DO YOU UNDERSTAND that government successfully dictated to people WHEN they were allowed to be outside, where they were allowed to go, and how their children would be educated in less than 4 months? And that a majority of the population followed blindly because they were told to do so.

You're kidding yourself if you think this behavior won't be repeated with a vaccine. Or whatever the next step is.

"I don't follow politics."
"Who cares about that stuff?"
"I don't like to think about it."
6 million Jews were exterminated in Germany because 97% of the population cowered to populist control. Nobody wanted to think about it. It's easier to just ignore it.

But that couldn't happen here, right?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You need to scrub your feeds for conspiracy theories bra. That's some tinfoil shit right there.

[~Rocktar~]

You need to scrub your feeds for conspiracy theories bra. That's some tinfoil shit right there.

Not a conspiracy if it's true regardless of WHY you think it's not true.

[FlayedAngel]

Just some commentary that came across my feed today:

It's not about masks. Open your mind to the POSSIBILITY......

In 4 months, the U.S. transformed into an obedient socialist country. Government dictated what events are acceptable to attend. Violent protests that instill fear are OK but church services, family funerals and patriotic celebrations are dangerous. And you bought it without a fight.

Standing in a graduation line is a "safety hazard". Small businesses were forced to close but crowds to support the corporate money machine at WalMart, Lowes and Home Depot are OK.

Come on. It's "just a mask" & "safety precautions".

How about a little hush money. Here's $2,400 that we stole out of your pay check in the first place. Enjoy. Buy something with it. From a big corporation.

Cash is dirty. We can't give change. There's a coin shortage. Use your card. In 4 months, they convinced you to use a traceable card for everything.

In less than 4 months, government closed public schools then "restructured" education under the guise of "public safety". In less than 4 months, our government demonstrated how easily people assimilate to "guidelines" that have NO scientific premise whatsoever when you are fearful.

In less than 4 months, our government successfully instilled fear in a majority of the population in America that allows them to control every aspect of your life. Including what you eat, where you go, and who you see.

And the most dangerous and terrifying part? People are not afraid of the government who removed their freedom. They're afraid of their neighbors, family and friends.

And they hate those who won't comply.

It's absolutely terrifying to me that so many people don't question "authority". They are willing to surrender their critical thinking skills and independence. They just... gave up without thinking. Without a fight.

Do you know what's coming next?
"It's just a vaccine. Come on. It's for the greater good".

Wait until you're told that you can't enter any store or business without proof of the Covid-19 vaccine. Wait until you can't go to public events or get on a plane without proof of receiving the vaccine.

To everyone that doesn't believe this is possible - DO YOU UNDERSTAND that government successfully dictated to people WHEN they were allowed to be outside, where they were allowed to go, and how their children would be educated in less than 4 months? And that a majority of the population followed blindly because they were told to do so.

You're kidding yourself if you think this behavior won't be repeated with a vaccine. Or whatever the next step is.

"I don't follow politics."
"Who cares about that stuff?"
"I don't like to think about it."
6 million Jews were exterminated in Germany because 97% of the population cowered to populist control. Nobody wanted to think about it. It's easier to just ignore it.

But that couldn't happen here, right?
Damn dude, I knew you had some... extreme beliefs, but whoever came up with that is a whole new level of fuckin' bonkers.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/S9DzejTu5blLOBZP1b/giphy.gif

[beldannon5]

the thing about rocks post is too much of that is believable. :(

[FlayedAngel]

Not a conspiracy if it's true regardless of WHY you think it's not true.
Dafuq? With all due respect, my dude... that's tantamount in stupidity to some Flat Earth anti-vaxxer bullshit.

Just... no.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/26FmPW6RfdwjeVxWU/giphy.gif

[FlayedAngel]

the thing about rocks post is too much of that is believable. :(
The modus operandi of conspiracy theorists is to draw slick correlations that sound good on the surface, until you actually look more critically at them; they appeal strongly to our baser natures, our desires and distrust of those things beyond ourselves... even if, upon deeper examination, the fundamental tenets that support them are not actually plausible.

It's human nature to see connections (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Apophenia) in everything we experience.

We're experiencing a global pandemic, which is a serious public health issue; the reason most people get mad about others not wearing masks is because those people are viewed (accurately or not) as selfishly endangering other people's lives... it's the same reason why people get mad about drunk drivers, loud music on the bus, or other irresponsible behavior, but with the added fun of situational stress making us all a little more on edge than usual. Requiring people to wear masks in public has no more agenda behind it than asking people to obey traffic laws and not be under the influence when operating a motor vehicle -- it's potentially dangerous for others, and socially irresponsible.

That's not to say that there aren't politics behind a lot of what's going on (it's disgusting how much this pandemic is being politicized), but I don't think it's worth endangering the lives of others just so I don't have to wear a piece of cloth.

[Parkbandit]

The modus operandi of conspiracy theorists is to draw slick correlations that sound good on the surface, until you actually look more critically at them; they appeal strongly to our baser natures, our desires and distrust of those things beyond ourselves... even if, upon deeper examination, the fundamental tenets that support them are not actually plausible.

It's human nature to see connections (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Apophenia) in everything we experience.

We're experiencing a global pandemic, which is a serious public health issue; the reason most people get mad about others not wearing masks is because those people are viewed (accurately or not) as selfishly endangering other people's lives... it's the same reason why people get mad about drunk drivers, loud music on the bus, or other irresponsible behavior, but with the added fun of situational stress making us all a little more on edge than usual. Requiring people to wear masks in public has no more agenda behind it than asking people to obey traffic laws and not be under the influence when operating a motor vehicle -- it's potentially dangerous for others, and socially irresponsible.

That's not to say that there aren't politics behind a lot of what's going on (it's disgusting how much this pandemic is being politicized), but I don't think it's worth endangering the lives of others just so I don't have to wear a piece of cloth.

lol. You seem to be slipping back into past posting styles again.

[Tgo01]

Thousands of coronavirus deaths 'will be wiped off the government's official toll' after urgent review into counting fiasco that included people who had recovered and died of other causes in the toll (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8599213/Thousands-Covid-19-deaths-wiped-governments-official-toll-counting-fiasco.html)


Counted victims if they died from any cause months later after beating disease


Academics found Public Health England's methods meant ministers count victims as anyone who died after ever testing positive for Covid-19 — even if they were hit by a bus after beating the disease months later.

Good to see the US isn't the only country inflating deaths from the Wuhan virus.

Now the question becomes...why aren't more people upset by shit like this? The deaths are pushed to peddle fear, anger, and continued lockdowns, and yet when shit like this pops up the same people pushing for this shit just shrug their shoulders and move on like nothing happened.

How can you trust any official number coming from the government when story after story after story after story comes out of shit like this happening?

[FlayedAngel]

Thousands of coronavirus deaths 'will be wiped off the government's official toll' after urgent review into counting fiasco that included people who had recovered and died of other causes in the toll (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8599213/Thousands-Covid-19-deaths-wiped-governments-official-toll-counting-fiasco.html)





Good to see the US isn't the only country inflating deaths from the Wuhan virus.

Now the question becomes...why aren't more people upset by shit like this? The deaths are pushed to peddle fear, anger, and continued lockdowns, and yet when shit like this pops up the same people pushing for this shit just shrug their shoulders and move on like nothing happened.

How can you trust any official number coming from the government when story after story after story after story comes out of shit like this happening?
Because people aren't narrow-minded conflationists?

[FlayedAngel]

lol. You seem to be slipping back into past posting styles again.
You seem to have never evolved one.... unless you count some weird homophobic soy-obsession as a style, I suppose.

[Parkbandit]

You seem to have never evolved one.... unless you count some weird homophobic soy-obsession as a style, I suppose.

How specifically am I homophobic?

I don't think I've ever been scared of someone like you who's threats are tantamount to scratching my eyes and pulling my hair.

You're really slipping up lately. I wondered where you went off to.. glad to know you never left.

[FlayedAngel]

How specifically am I homophobic?

I don't think I've ever been scared of someone like you who's threats are tantamount to scratching my eyes and pulling my hair.

You're really slipping up lately. I wondered where you went off to.. glad to know you never left.
Yeah, your philippic red reps ranting about fags and the evils of soy latte really proves how utterly disaffected you are... you sure showed me.

[FlayedAngel]

And when have I threatened you?

[Tgo01]

Because people aren't narrow-minded conflationists?

Case in point.

[FlayedAngel]

That was directed at you, ding dong.

[Tgo01]

That was directed at you, ding dong.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDRVzwNkV20

[Blazar]

I like the part where it says the guidelines have no basis in science. Hahahahaha. even if you don't science man, common sense can tell you why the guidelines exist. Rocktar you are seriously some kind of special.

Shockingly, I agree with Tgo on something. They have got to figure out the damn reporting. A person who died of wounds in a car crash should not be counted as a COVID death. That shit is crazy. Common sense could tell you that won't help us figure this shit out. If it is a fear mongering tactic, it's despicable. Knowing human nature and the fact that if that was decided upon, surely it'd get leaked by someone with a conscience (I know, no guarantee), I'm more inclined to believe they're just lazy but more likely it's the result of a completely broken health care system that is too massive to properly manage without actual resources being pumped into it.

[Solkern]

Thousands of coronavirus deaths 'will be wiped off the government's official toll' after urgent review into counting fiasco that included people who had recovered and died of other causes in the toll (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8599213/Thousands-Covid-19-deaths-wiped-governments-official-toll-counting-fiasco.html)





Good to see the US isn't the only country inflating deaths from the Wuhan virus.

Now the question becomes...why aren't more people upset by shit like this? The deaths are pushed to peddle fear, anger, and continued lockdowns, and yet when shit like this pops up the same people pushing for this shit just shrug their shoulders and move on like nothing happened.

How can you trust any official number coming from the government when story after story after story after story comes out of shit like this happening?


Sure, fair assessment, what about all the Covid deaths that are being covered and labeled something else?
Russian hospitals say the government has undercounted the total death count by almost 50,000 people.

I’m sure you think China is also undercounting, Brazil as well, Mexico...
quite a few deaths haven’t been reported as covid19 even though they probably were, in the early days of this pandemic.
So it goes both ways.

[Bhaalizmo]

And when have I threatened you?

It's when you attempt to reason with him using facts and logic. Very threatening, to the willfully ignorant.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, your philippic red reps ranting about fags and the evils of soy latte really proves how utterly disaffected you are... you sure showed me.

People don't dislike you because you are a fag, they dislike you because you are an idiot.

If anything, I'm an idiotist... and I'm trying to be better.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah, your philippic red reps ranting about fags and the evils of soy latte really proves how utterly disaffected you are... you sure showed me.

Seriously though man... no one really likes soy right?

[FlayedAngel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDRVzwNkV20
I see you still have some fundamental misconceptions about how that works, but get down with your bad self.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/64afa80e0f6f1e22bfc59e44949401f1/tenor.gif?itemid=12682706

[FlayedAngel]

People don't dislike you because you are a fag, they dislike you because you are an idiot.

If anything, I'm an idiotist... and I'm trying to be better.
Honestly... I expected better from you.

[FlayedAngel]

Seriously though man... no one really likes soy right?
I mean... it's fine, I guess?

I don't have a lot of moralistic views or social opinions centered around it.

Almond milk can huff my nuts, though.

[Alashir]

Honestly... I expected better from you.

Lol why? Aside from his misogynistic, racist, homophobic, and bigoted posting history, he's a swell guy!

[Parkbandit]

Lol why? Aside from his misogynistic, racist, homophobic, and bigoted posting history, he's a swell guy!

OH NO!

Someone I have no idea who it is called me mean names on the Internet!

I really must have upset you Alashir.

I'd say I was sorry.. but I imagine you posted something really retarded and I laughed at you for it.

That shit's on you. Stop posting retarded shit.

[Bhaalizmo]

OH NO!

Someone I have no idea who it is called me mean names on the Internet!

I really must have upset you Alashir.

I'd say I was sorry.. but I imagine you posted something really retarded and I laughed at you for it.

That shit's on you. Stop posting retarded shit.

Go fuck your sister-wife, Jeb.

[Tgo01]

Go fuck your sister-wife, Jeb.

All Bhaalizmo has are gay jokes and incest jokes.

It's okay to admit you are attracted to your brother, Bhaalizmo.

[Solkern]

OH NO!

Someone I have no idea who it is called me mean names on the Internet!


How ironic, 90% of the shit you post, is that exact shit. Maybe now, you’ll realize we all just laugh at you.

[Solkern]

Yup, it’s going well!!

https://us.yahoo.com/news/within-11-days-schools-opening-191000276.html

Within 11 days of schools opening, dozens of students and teachers have gotten COVID-19: 'I truly wish we'd kept our children home'

[Stolis]

Sure, fair assessment, what about all the Covid deaths that are being covered and labeled something else?
Russian hospitals say the government has undercounted the total death count by almost 50,000 people.

I’m sure you think China is also undercounting, Brazil as well, Mexico...
quite a few deaths haven’t been reported as covid19 even though they probably were, in the early days of this pandemic.
So it goes both ways.

I mean... China absolutely is undercounting. They started it all to begin with, and then tried to cover it up. Some countries undercount, so it shows hey we have it under control, you can count on us to keep you safe and you should definitely not ask any questions. See: Russia, China.. Probably North Korea because why not haha

Here however it seems we overreport. I can't help but think that if hospitals weren't being paid thousands for COVID-19 treatment and such by insurance companies and Medicaid, would the numbers change any?

[Tgo01]

Yup, it’s going well!!

https://us.yahoo.com/news/within-11-days-schools-opening-191000276.html

Within 11 days of schools opening, dozens of students and teachers have gotten COVID-19: 'I truly wish we'd kept our children home'

Dozens of students and teachers in 11 days?! SHUT IT ALL DOWN! Our kids don't deserve a good education!!11!!!

[Solkern]

I mean... China absolutely is undercounting. They started it all to begin with, and then tried to cover it up. Some countries undercount, so it shows hey we have it under control, you can count on us to keep you safe and you should definitely not ask any questions. See: Russia, China.. Probably North Korea because why not haha

Here however it seems we overreport. I can't help but think that if hospitals weren't being paid thousands for COVID-19 treatment and such by insurance companies and Medicaid, would the numbers change any?


Well, I can see countries like russia wanting to overreport, as their doctors make shit money, and would love the extra income, as they aren’t doctors because they want to save people, they are doctors to get the bribe.
I believe people in the states become doctors because well, they truly want to help and save people, money isn’t their main motivation. While not all, but the majority.

[Stolis]

Well, I can see countries like russia wanting to overreport, as their doctors make shit money, and would love the extra income, as they aren’t doctors because they want to save people, they are doctors to get the bribe.
I believe people in the states become doctors because well, they truly want to help and save people, money isn’t their main motivation. While not all, but the majority.

I feel like you don't know enough doctors haha. There are a lot of cocky ones. General doctor, maybe not as much. You start getting into surgeons and stuff, 99% chance they know exactly how their farts smell.

As far as Russia overreporting, I would disagree in the fact that high numbers make you worse than the US. "Hey look, we have it under control here. Putin is amazing, he's keeping us all safe and we're way better than every other country." They've kinda made that their MO even since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[Alfster]

Well, I can see countries like russia wanting to overreport, as their doctors make shit money, and would love the extra income, as they aren’t doctors because they want to save people, they are doctors to get the bribe.
I believe people in the states become doctors because well, they truly want to help and save people, money isn’t their main motivation. While not all, but the majority.

Why would Russian doctors get more for covid? There's no incentives that I've been able to locate for Russia.

[Solkern]

Why would Russian doctors get more for covid? There's no incentives that I've been able to locate for Russia.

There is. If they treat a Covid patient that get $1000 extra a month and $20 extra per patient that has COVID-19(that’s a lot of money on Russia) especially when a typical salary of a doctor is $400-500 a month

Nurses and Ambulance drives get an extra $500 per month

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

There is. If they treat a Covid patient that get $1000 extra a month and $20 extra per patient that has COVID-19(that’s a lot of money on Russia) especially when a typical salary of a doctor is $400-500 a month

Nurses and Ambulance drives get an extra $500 per month

What kind of retarded compensation system is that? It BEGS to be abused. Show me somewhere official that talks about that.

[Solkern]

What kind of retarded compensation system is that? It BEGS to be abused. Show me somewhere official that talks about that.


Trust me, there has been a lot of issues where doctors didn’t get their money.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200408-russia-s-putin-orders-bonuses-for-frontline-virus-medics

https://youtu.be/D1jWU8Na3mo
(Video of doctors not being paid, their bonuses.)


https://youtu.be/tgmT5X1sje0
(This video shows Putin making the promise of paying the money for doctors who treat coronavirus patients at the 1:48 mark)




If you can google translate.

https://yandex.ru/turbo/s/rbc.ru/society/08/04/2020/5e8dc7e39a79471cf44c38c8

and you're right it begs to be abused, but there has been zero reports of abuse, and mass reports of severe under counting as well in Russia.
Makes you scratch your head.

[Parkbandit]

How ironic, 90% of the shit you post, is that exact shit. Maybe now, you’ll realize we all just laugh at you.

I r o n y

[Parkbandit]

All Bhaalizmo has are gay jokes and incest jokes.

It's okay to admit you are attracted to your brother, Bhaalizmo.

Well, he already admitted it...


You think about gay stuff alot. Check your posts. Just sayin.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

An estimated 600K people die from cancer annually in the US. Why haven't we shut down the country before now?! That is 4x the Kung Flu people.

Oh sure, you can't catch cancer from your neighbor, I can already hear it.

[FlayedAngel]

An estimated 600K people die from cancer annually in the US. Why haven't we shut down the country before now?! That is 4x the Kung Flu people.

Oh sure, you can't catch cancer from your neighbor, I can already hear it.
Well, that and the fact that cancer isn't contagious or preventable.

[~Rocktar~]

Many cancers are, in fact, largely preventable.

[Tgo01]

Well, that and the fact that cancer isn't contagious or preventable.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ht9-x4s-W7M/sddefault.jpg

[Alashir]

Well, that and the fact that cancer isn't contagious or preventable.

Technically windmills cause cancer and more windmills cause more cancer sooo take that libtard

[FlayedAngel]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ht9-x4s-W7M/sddefault.jpg


Many cancers are, in fact, largely preventable.

I mean that in an absolute sense -- you can absolutely avoid contracting Covid with certain precautions, you cannot absolutely avoid developing cancer regardless of your course of action.

[FlayedAngel]

Or to put another way (to avoid possible false equivalencies from interpretation), we can -- as a society -- take certain steps to minimize the likelihood of either contracting Covid or developing cancer, which is a commonality, but there's a vast disparity in practical efficacy.

This is exactly why smoking is either banned or limited in most places, but beyond that one example, there aren't a lot of ways that social irresponsibility can result in someone else developing cancer... but there is an established pattern (being a communicable virus) regarding how you can spread the 'Rona to other people.

Thus, you know... worldwide pandemic.

[Solkern]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ht9-x4s-W7M/sddefault.jpg

Have you heard of something called hereditary cancer? so yeah some cancers aren’t preventable, but for the most part they can be.

[Tgo01]

Have you heard of something called hereditary cancer? so yeah some cancers aren’t preventable, but for the most part they can be.

So the statement that "cancer isn't preventable" is a false statement.

You don't have to be a contrarian just for the sake of being a contrarian.

[FlayedAngel]

Have you heard of something called hereditary cancer? so yeah some cancers aren’t preventable, but for the most part they can be.
"Cancer" is an umbrella term for over a hundred diseases clustered under one definition, so... yeah, that may not be the best example.

My point was that most cancers aren't directly communicable.

[Methais]

An estimated 600K people die from cancer annually in the US. Why haven't we shut down the country before now?! That is 4x the Kung Flu people.

Oh sure, you can't catch cancer from your neighbor, I can already hear it.

I catch cancer every day from reading the PC, if that counts.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Technically windmills cause cancer and more windmills cause more cancer sooo take that libtard

someone got my sarcasm...

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I love I post a retarded comparison and there are a half dozen plus posts about debating it. PC will fight about anything.

[FlayedAngel]

I catch cancer every day from reading the PC, if that counts.
The PC gave me butt cancer, it's like Pokemon... gotta catch 'em all.



I love I post a retarded comparison and there are a half dozen plus posts about debating it. PC will fight about anything.
I believe that was a preemptive volley, hah.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/vx2TEehV5kUotQcZHj/giphy.gif

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Technically windmills cause cancer and more windmills cause more cancer sooo take that libtard

there is a great study done on the environmental effects of giant windmill farms. It’s a good read and makes you think about the unintended consequences of ‘clean’ energy. I’m not saying do away with wind farms, but it’s stuff like how they affect the wind stream, how flora grows, bird flight patterns, etc. really interesting. Prob causes brain tumors also, so we should lock down the country.

[Parkbandit]

The PC gave me butt cancer, it's like Pokemon... gotta catch 'em all.


I doubt it was the PC...

[Methais]

I doubt it was the PC...

I don't know man, Jeril posted here for a pretty long time and all...

[Geijon]

Lighten up. Here is something current for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

[Jeril]

I don't know man, Jeril posted here for a pretty long time and all...

I'LL POST ON YOUR FACE!

[Methais]

I'LL POST ON YOUR FACE!

https://media.tenor.com/images/2a81eebe12b3bccb330ac4b5e20b6174/tenor.gif

[Solkern]

Dozens of students and teachers in 11 days?! SHUT IT ALL DOWN! Our kids don't deserve a good education!!11!!!

Yeah, that’s quite a lot since you know, not ALL schools across America have opened, just a few, and they’ve already reported cases.

And these hundreds of students that need to quarantine, and teachers as well, please tell me how they are getting a “normal” education?
And when they go back, and it happens again... you think it’s going to be normal? Lol

[Solkern]

https://i.imgur.com/OCyT4sD.jpg

Look at all those students following social distancing guidelines!

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/9-people-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-school-went-032752795--abc-news-topstories.html

9 tested positive, yup, things are going to go so well.

[Stanley Burrell]

Yo. What the fuck would be going on right now, top news-wise, if Covid had never existed. Like, what locales would most/all venues of mainstream media be most likely covering?

I ask this because I forget what the world was like pre-Covid.

Was there a world pre-Covid? Trying to think here.

[Tgo01]

https://i.imgur.com/OCyT4sD.jpg

Look at all those students following social distancing guidelines!

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/9-people-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-school-went-032752795--abc-news-topstories.html

9 tested positive, yup, things are going to go so well.

Kids get sick. It's okay, chicken little, this generation deserves an education just like the one you got.

[Tgo01]

Was there a world pre-Covid? Trying to think here.

Sure didn't seem that way during the lockdowns, but people seem to largely be over this now so the media is trying to force it into the headlines all of the time. I'm sure the number of news stories covering the virus will start to plummet starting around November 4th.

[FlayedAngel]

I'LL POST ON YOUR FACE!
https://media2.giphy.com/media/vR06hADd9NJcY/giphy.gif

Sup, dude?

[Solkern]

You don't even have kids is odds on truth. Your education obviously didn't teach you a thing because you just vomit words all over here. Troll #1 is obvious. Don't stand in fire. It's hot.

That’s obvious he doesn’t have kids, he has no problem with other people’s children dying or getting sick, cause he can’t relate at all. That’s pretty sad that he lacks any sort of empathy.

Definitely a sign he’s either a sociopath or a psychopath.

[Tgo01]

That’s obvious he doesn’t have kids, he has no problem with other people’s children dying or getting sick, cause he can’t relate at all. That’s pretty sad that he lacks any sort of empathy.

Definitely a sign he’s either a sociopath or a psychopath.

Yes clearly me being worried about tens of millions of children not receiving a proper education shows I don't care about children and I'm a sociopath. You've solved the case, Batman!

Isn't it amazing how the left has convinced themselves that NOT giving kids an education is the compassionate approach?

Keep thinking anything Democrats and the media are pushing in regards to this virus is because they give a shit about people. Just remember a short 6 weeks ago they were actively encouraging mass protests and riots and to this day many Democrat ran cities make exceptions to their gathering restrictions for BLM protests.

[Geijon]

God damn you are a miserable motherfucker. Here is a gift for you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEJLuJyxLDE

[Parkbandit]

I teach my kids. Respect to the teachers who did it for us and now we do. You on the otherhand, don't know a god damn thing. You're the 150,000 dead boomer who says its OK, it's flu like. You are a dinosaur. Old ideas die and you're closer to done then contributing.

Keep posting TGO01.

You're a a Goldfish.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/ZdrUuSEC0LygaFXtNT/giphy.gif

[Parkbandit]

?

That was all you got? I'd not even score that a 1 on a 10 point scale.

Here is a 2013 video for you. Maybe you'll get to this decade eventually.

You wouldn't understand anything above a 1.

Because you are really retarded.

[Solkern]

Yes clearly me being worried about tens of millions of children not receiving a proper education shows I don't care about children and I'm a sociopath. You've solved the case, Batman!

Isn't it amazing how the left has convinced themselves that NOT giving kids an education is the compassionate approach?

Keep thinking anything Democrats and the media are pushing in regards to this virus is because they give a shit about people. Just remember a short 6 weeks ago they were actively encouraging mass protests and riots and to this day many Democrat ran cities make exceptions to their gathering restrictions for BLM protests.

Lol, and you think that means you don’t lack empathy? You only want schools open because it fits right in with your right wing narrative, and nothing else. You don’t care if kids get sick, if parents die, as far as your concerned, well, shit happens, but schools need to open!
It’s blatantly obvious. I post schools are closing due to coronavirus, your response? It’s just a few schools! That shows a complete lack of empathy. The amount you give a shit is zero.

[FlayedAngel]

Isn't it amazing how the left has convinced themselves that NOT giving kids an education is the compassionate approach?
Reducing vectors in an attempt to lower mortality rates, even by a small margin, is the more compassionate approach -- how is that not bloody obvious?

Maybe if we hadn't fucked things up so epically at the start and just done what we needed to do instead of dicking around like idiots, this wouldn't even be a debate.

It's not a partisan thing (or it shouldn't be), it's a public health issue... same as it's always been. Kids can learn fine remotely or through alternative means, just as a percentage of people can work from home; it's not ideal, but it's not unheard of to minimize risks and possibly save lives, especially given the current (less than ideal) state of academia in our country.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I had a nice response to this, but the succari wall bullshit stopped it - I'm pretty sure it's because I can't quote you because you use bold and italics or some stupid shit like that.

I'm summarize though.

We are back to needing to shut down, is that it? We did that, and when the rioting terrorists were burning buildings down, murdering people and taking over portions of cities - we all saw the news say it was OK to be back outside again. But only to riot. Not to go to church, or the gym, or anywhere else. So we all saw the massive hypocrisy crystal clearly and have had enough of it. We won't have another shutdown, liberals have ensured that will not happen again.

[Tgo01]

Reducing vectors in an attempt to lower mortality rates, even by a small margin, is the more compassionate approach -- how is that not bloody obvious?

So every time there is a virus out there we close the schools down indefinitely until we can guarantee no kids will get sick at school? Or do we just do that in an election year when a Republican is in the White House?

Please explain to me how this compassionate approach works, I need to know.


Maybe if we hadn't fucked things up so epically at the start and just done what we needed to do instead of dicking around like idiots, this wouldn't even be a debate

That is true. Maybe if Democrats weren't encouraging mass riots and protests when the number of cases and deaths were trending way down we wouldn't need to be having this discussion right now.

Oh...oh wait that's not at all what you meant is it? It's okay when Democrats fuck things up for everyone else right?

[~Rocktar~]

Reducing vectors in an attempt to lower mortality rates, even by a small margin, is the more compassionate approach -- how is that not bloody obvious?

Maybe if we hadn't fucked things up so epically at the start and just done what we needed to do instead of dicking around like idiots, this wouldn't even be a debate.

It's not a partisan thing (or it shouldn't be), it's a public health issue... same as it's always been. Kids can learn fine remotely or through alternative means, just as a percentage of people can work from home; it's not ideal, but it's not unheard of to minimize risks and possibly save lives, especially given the current (less than ideal) state of academia in our country.


"For the people crying for the country to remain shut down, answer these questions:

1) How many children should starve in order to make you feel safe?

2) How many families must go bankrupt in order to make you feel safe?

3) How many wives and children must be stuck at home with an abusive husband/father in order to make you feel safe?

4) How many business owners should lose everything they've worked for in order to make you feel safe?

5) How many people are you comfortable with committing suicide from hopelessness and financial ruin in order to make you feel safe?

6) How many people have to lose their jobs, their health insurance, their life savings, and most important precious time with their family and loved ones they will never get back to make you feel safe?

Come up with an actual number, don't just dismiss the questions. Come up with the number of people that you think should surrender their lives for YOUR feelings and YOUR safety.

Does it make you feel safer knowing that your unwarranted fear and panic are costing others their livelihoods and even their own lives?
Each time you whine and complain about keeping the country shut down, remember what it's costing OTHER people for you to sit in your house watching TV, swallowing the panic narrative, and hoarding toilet paper.
Also, remember this - if the TV news had never told you to be afraid of this virus, you wouldn't have. You'd have never given it a thought, you'd have gone about your life as usual along with everyone else. You'd likely have never known there was a virus at all, you’d have thought that this was just another type of Flu. So, remember that all your fear and panic exists because you were TOLD to live in fear and panic. Regardless of whether things reopen or not, you still have the choice to stay home and not go places if you feel that is what is best for you and your family."

Words by Stuart Townsend...
Sentiment shared by many.

It is a partisan thing and has been from the beginning.

[Orthin]

Yes clearly me being worried about tens of millions of children not receiving a proper education shows I don't care about children and I'm a sociopath. You've solved the case, Batman!

Isn't it amazing how the left has convinced themselves that NOT giving kids an education is the compassionate approach?

Keep thinking anything Democrats and the media are pushing in regards to this virus is because they give a shit about people. Just remember a short 6 weeks ago they were actively encouraging mass protests and riots and to this day many Democrat ran cities make exceptions to their gathering restrictions for BLM protests.

Having kids go to school full-time remote does not = not giving them education. Is the education as good as in person, no; but will the ripple effect of positive tests from kids and all those exposed have consequences to those eager to have their kids back in school? Absolutely.

I get it, livelihoods are at stake for folks who want their kids to go back to school. Limited financial stability on the individual level, poor aid from local/federal governments for those employments and little to no relief to other markets who then put the squeeze to have bills paid by those individuals is what has continued to hurt everything. Pushing hard to have kids go back to school is going to solve a temporary pain point but it is not solving the problem and could be creating a new issue which with kids currently not in school, does not exist.


Related to the protests, both sides are equally guilty of protecting their bases while this has all been going on. Neither action should be condoned and because what both sides have been doing has continued to place us in this situation. It would be unfair for me to say (as a left leaner) that FL continuing to give negative shits and pro police marches/rallies are to blame for COVID continuing to rise while saying nothing about the impact that BLM protests have had related to COVID. All sides are at fault. I just wish both sides could get past who is more at fault and refocus on fixing those faults.

[Tgo01]

Having kids go to school full-time remote does not = not giving them education.

I'm worried about them getting a proper education. College students and high school students would probably do okay with remote learning, but like 8 year olds aren't going to do too well. They need to be focused on education in a classroom, they need to learn in a group, they need activities to make learning fun and interesting.

If it were that easy to make children learn by just sitting them in front of a computer and listening to a teacher drone on for hours on end then we could have done away with teachers decades ago and just sat students in front of a computer all day.

It's madness to suggest kids will learn just as well sitting in front of a computer as they would in a classroom. I really don't understand why people seem to suddenly be okay with their kids not learning. A proper education is something people have fought for in this country for hundreds of years and in some cases still fighting for, and now we're just like "Oh, there is a virus out there? Well that's that then, no more proper education for kids. Sit them down in front of a computer to keep them entertained like you sit them down in front of a TV when they are younger."

I just want someone to tell me where is the line? Is it one kid getting sick at school? We shut down in school learning because one kid got sick? 10 the limit? 100? 1000? 10000? Just give me a number because clearly it's a numbers game since no one has batted an eye at kids getting sick and dying from the flu every year for the past 100 years.

[Orthin]

I can answer Stuarts questions! I mean they are clearly loaded and I could just as easily create a set for the other side but I can go through and answer and be just as cynical as his post!

1) How many children should starve in order to make you feel safe? 11% of the US population of children - seems to be what it was at pre-Covid when few people would have known it was a thing (though I am sure everyone on this board knew)

2) How many families must go bankrupt in order to make you feel safe? -- Let's say 10 IF they had had been fiscally responsible from jump street.

3) How many wives and children must be stuck at home with an abusive husband/father in order to make you feel safe? -- 2, assuming abuse has been strictly related to COVID19

4) How many business owners should lose everything they've worked for in order to make you feel safe? -- #LLC - adapt and overcome, but 10

5) How many people are you comfortable with committing suicide from hopelessness and financial ruin in order to make you feel safe? -- 5 if it is strictly related to COVID19

6) How many people have to lose their jobs, their health insurance, their life savings, and most important precious time with their family and loved ones they will never get back to make you feel safe? -- 10 more families than those pre COVID who already didn't have jobs, health insurance, a life savings. Time is infinite so there is always time.

Come up with an actual number, don't just dismiss the questions. Come up with the number of people that you think should surrender their lives for YOUR feelings and YOUR safety.

Does it make you feel safer knowing that your unwarranted fear and panic are costing others their livelihoods and even their own lives? - Yes

Each time you whine and complain about keeping the country shut down, remember what it's costing OTHER people for you to sit in your house watching TV, swallowing the panic narrative, and hoarding toilet paper. -- I actually complained about being holed up, I have a 6 and 4 year old its painful BUT I am also not a dick so I sucked it up. I don't watch the TV if I am lucky I can watch netflix before 5pm (thanks satellite internet) and we go grocery run to grocery run on TP. We have Lambs Ear in the yard, we can run out of paper.

Also, remember this - if the TV news had never told you to be afraid of this virus, you wouldn't have. You'd have never given it a thought, you'd have gone about your life as usual along with everyone else. You'd likely have never known there was a virus at all, you’d have thought that this was just another type of Flu. So, remember that all your fear and panic exists because you were TOLD to live in fear and panic. Regardless of whether things reopen or not, you still have the choice to stay home and not go places if you feel that is what is best for you and your family. - With the internet that would be impossible even if TV did not exist for folks to not know about it. That being said if we somehow NEVER heard about it, it would probably go how other major worldwide spread illnesses have gone in the past.

If we could go back in time I wonder if all the folks impacted by the Spanish Flu would have opted to have been swarmed by information or not.

Super tongue in cheek but that was fun!

[Orthin]

I'm worried about them getting a proper education. College students and high school students would probably do okay with remote learning, but like 8 year olds aren't going to do too well. They need to be focused on education in a classroom, they need to learn in a group, they need activities to make learning fun and interesting.

If it were that easy to make children learn by just sitting them in front of a computer and listening to a teacher drone on for hours on end then we could have done away with teachers decades ago and just sat students in front of a computer all day.

It's madness to suggest kids will learn just as well sitting in front of a computer as they would in a classroom. I really don't understand why people seem to suddenly be okay with their kids not learning. A proper education is something people have fought for in this country for hundreds of years and in some cases still fighting for, and now we're just like "Oh, there is a virus out there? Well that's that then, no more proper education for kids. Sit them down in front of a computer to keep them entertained like you sit them down in front of a TV when they are younger."

I just want someone to tell me where is the line? Is it one kid getting sick at school? We shut down in school learning because one kid got sick? 10 the limit? 100? 1000? 10000? Just give me a number because clearly it's a numbers game since no one has batted an eye at kids getting sick and dying from the flu every year for the past 100 years.

Not everyone does it but homeschooling is a thing and has been a thing for some time.

I would say 10 sick kids from 5 different classes. Assuming two days to find out those kids are sick and their potential interactions with those bus drivers, teachers, other students, their families and any place else they have been have now been in contact and could potentially either be sick or be carriers. Those 10 kids will cause 5 teachers, several bus drivers, however many students and any family member (plus outsiders of course) to be quarantined. If they can keep it below 10 have at it!

Also for your flu, a decent human being doesn't send their kid to school sick but prior to COVID if your kid had the flu folks didn't have to quarantine for literally anyone your kid came in contact with. Probably the biggest difference between the flu and COVID.

[Tgo01]

Not everyone does it but homeschooling is a thing and has been a thing for some time.

I would say 10 sick kids from 5 different classes. Assuming two days to find out those kids are sick and their potential interactions with those bus drivers, teachers, other students, their families and any place else they have been have now been in contact and could potentially either be sick or be carriers. Those 10 kids will cause 5 teachers, several bus drivers, however many students and any family member (plus outsiders of course) to be quarantined. If they can keep it below 10 have at it!

Like 10 kids in the whole US or per school?

So 10 kids get sick and we shut it down? Hey at least you gave a number.

[Orthin]

Like 10 kids in the whole US or per school?

So 10 kids get sick and we shut it down? Hey at least you gave a number.

Per school, sorry I assumed you meant on the individual level. The kids aren't so much the concern for me, the swath of people associated with them is the concerning piece.

[Tgo01]

Per school, sorry I assumed you meant on the individual level. The kids aren't so much the concern for me, the swath of people associated with them is the concerning piece.

That's an interesting approach. So open up the schools and if too many kids get sick at any particular school we shut it down for 10 days or whatever.

Also I'm fine with kids being tested weekly to stay on top of outbreaks. I just think it's wrong we don't even try. Like we just give up right from the beginning.

[FlayedAngel]

I had a nice response to this, but the succari wall bullshit stopped it - I'm pretty sure it's because I can't quote you because you use bold and italics or some stupid shit like that.
Well, that sucks... Internet security or whatever brought low by some italics.



We are back to needing to shut down, is that it? We did that, and when the rioting terrorists were burning buildings down, murdering people and taking over portions of cities - we all saw the news say it was OK to be back outside again. But only to riot. Not to go to church, or the gym, or anywhere else. So we all saw the massive hypocrisy crystal clearly and have had enough of it. We won't have another shutdown, liberals have ensured that will not happen again.
In order for it to be widely effective, we would have had to have shut down nationwide way before we did. I'm not going to get into all that shit again, as it's been hashed out to death elsewhere and there's little point in hammering home what's become only more obvious over time; the argument was which course of action would be more compassionate and considerate of human life, and the answer to that seems clear to me.

So no, I don't think there's much point in shutting down again now -- we already fucked it up the first time.

As for the "rioting" or whatever you want to call it: there have been plenty of equivalently huge groups at beaches, rallies, and all other kinds of other non-protest gatherings (many of which had far fewer people wearing masks and taking precautions, often deliberately)... but sure, I guess we can ignore all those in favor of making a case for hypocrisy.



It is a partisan thing and has been from the beginning.
That doesn't mean it should be, both parties should be unified -- or at least, willing to work together more than they are -- for the greater good of the people... same as with any catastrophic event.

[Tgo01]

the argument was which course of action would be more compassionate and considerate of human life

No that's what you wanted the argument to be because it's easier to attack a strawman. I said Democrats have convinced themselves that denying an education/a proper education to children is the compassionate course of action.

[Solkern]

That's an interesting approach. So open up the schools and if too many kids get sick at any particular school we shut it down for 10 days or whatever.

Also I'm fine with kids being tested weekly to stay on top of outbreaks. I just think it's wrong we don't even try. Like we just give up right from the beginning.

Great, now tgo that you understand the issue, if a school shuts down for ten days, how exactly are kids going to get a “normal” education? And how many times does this shut down need to repeat, before schools just stay shut? I’d like a specific number please.

And what will the parents do? They just went back to work, now they need to stay home and watch their kids.

[FlayedAngel]

No that's what you wanted the argument to be because it's easier to attack a strawman. I said Democrats have convinced themselves that denying an education/a proper education to children is the compassionate course of action.
The fuck are you even talking about?

It's a direct comparison of consequence between two simple choices, the only strawman is the ridiculous assertion that any adaptations in our methods of education are going to be somehow more detrimental than allowing an already rampant high-morbidity disease the means to spread further, even at a minimum impact. Both options have consequences, yes -- but explain to me how a provisional lack of education is somehow worse than involuntary hospitalization or death when directly compared.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion on the relative consequences and their repercussions, but it's bad form to make a textbook strawman argument while falsely claiming the same of other people.



Yes clearly me being worried about tens of millions of children not receiving a proper education shows I don't care about children and I'm a sociopath. You've solved the case, Batman!
I had no idea you were such a vocal proponent of the educational system, you must feel just terrible about it being gutted repeatedly.



Isn't it amazing how the left has convinced themselves that NOT giving kids an education is the compassionate approach?

Keep thinking anything Democrats and the media are pushing in regards to this virus is because they give a shit about people. Just remember a short 6 weeks ago they were actively encouraging mass protests and riots and to this day many Democrat ran cities make exceptions to their gathering restrictions for BLM protests.
See which (https://time.com/5861633/protests-coronavirus): "So far, the lack of notable protest-related viral transmission would seem to justify the beliefs of the many doctors and other medical experts who expressed support (https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests) for the protests, despite the immediate risk to public health. Moving forward, experts say, demonstrators should seek to keep following official guidance as much as possible. “I think wearing a mask, and social distancing, and being outside as much as possible, are the key things that we can do, that we know work,” says Roger Shapiro, associate professor of immunology and infectious diseases at Harvard’s School of Public Health. “And that’s what I hope protected most of the protesters.”

[FlayedAngel]

Not to be reductive toward what I assume was your larger point, which is that shutting down for long periods of time isn't also without dire consequence; I get that, and it does suck for a lot of people -- I'm not dismissing that outright, and I'm not generally without sympathy for those affected.

[Orthin]

That's an interesting approach. So open up the schools and if too many kids get sick at any particular school we shut it down for 10 days or whatever.

Also I'm fine with kids being tested weekly to stay on top of outbreaks. I just think it's wrong we don't even try. Like we just give up right from the beginning.

That is a fair point about what feels like an auto abandon ship before people have even boarded. I think there were other options that were most likely left on the table that could have been tried with severely reduced classes etc or outside experience learning only.

[Methais]

Lol, and you think that means you don’t lack empathy? You only want schools open because it fits right in with your right wing narrative, and nothing else. You don’t care if kids get sick, if parents die, as far as your concerned, well, shit happens, but schools need to open!
It’s blatantly obvious. I post schools are closing due to coronavirus, your response? It’s just a few schools! That shows a complete lack of empathy. The amount you give a shit is zero.

Is the CDC right wing too? Because they've been saying schools should reopen too. Unless they changed their minds again.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I had no idea you were such a vocal proponent of the educational system, you must feel just terrible about it being gutted repeatedly.

I cannot find a single budget where the education system was "gutted", let alone gone down, since 1981. Where are you getting your facts? I got mine from the Education Department budgets which are available here. https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/history/index.html

[DoctorUnne]

Got this from a co-worker of mine based in HK who is traveling to China and had to go through the quarantine process. Reading it makes me think maybe the low China numbers are legit (at least now) because they're implementing stuff that would just never fly in the US.

- I fly from HK to Shanghai on Jul 27th, Monday. There is news that all passengers boarding a plane to mainland. Most people on the plane were well covered with mask and goggles, some even entire protective gear.
- After landing in Shanghai, everybody was directed into a temp clinic where covid test samples were collected. (They do it really seriously, and both my nose and my throat got swiped twice).
- Post immigration, passengers were allocated to different hotels based on which district they live in. All these hotels are leased by gov, and they host only quarantine customers. Cost for my hotel is 500 CNY per night (incl. 3 meals)
- During quarantine, food is delivered to my door. I am not allowed to meet anyone. I am required to measure my body temperatures twice a day and upload to the system. Bathrooms are required to be sanitized using chlorine dioxide. All garbage collected by the hotel centrally.
- If my test at the airport came positive, I would have been transported to a hospital and treated centrally. Fortunately my test is negative, and on day 5 anther test was conducted (only swiped me once this time). As my 2nd test also shows negative, I am allowed to spend 2nd half of my quarantine at home.
- Most of procedures at home are similar. Hotel staff transferred my case to our community police, who installed some sensors on my door so they know then it’s opened. During 2nd week, I’m finally allowed to order food delivery
- I’m in my 2nd week of quarantine now, and by end of week, another test will be conducted. If the result also shows negative, then I will be free to travel within China.
- Overall, I’m impressed by how rigorous the administrators follow the quarantine process. No exceptions made (I tried all the brokers to see if they can find me a way around and failed). This gives me strong confidence on the situation being well under control in greater China region.

[ClydeR]

Bill Gates speaking..


“It’s mind-blowing that you can’t get the government to improve the testing because they just want to say how great it is,” he continued. “I’ve said to them, look, have a [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] website that prioritizes who gets tested. Don’t reimburse any test where the result goes back after three days. You’re paying billions of dollars in this very inequitable way to get the most worthless testing results in the world.”

“No other country has the testing insanity because they won’t talk about fixing it, because they think they need to just keep acting like they’ve done a competent job,” he added.

More... (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/511243-bill-gates-us-only-country-to-have-coronavirus-testing-insanity)


It looks like Certain People may not get to buy TikTok after all.

[Methais]

Bill Gates speaking..




It looks like Certain People may not get to buy TikTok after all.

Bill Gates couldn't even save Windows from viruses.

[Solkern]

Is the CDC right wing too? Because they've been saying schools should reopen too. Unless they changed their minds again.

There’s a big difference between an agency, and a person.
The cdc offers quite a few guidelines including remote learning. Not a we don’t give a fuck, just reopen schools, and who cares.

I’ve never been 100% against opening schools(I am against it though), I would choose not to take my child there as I know what it’ll be like, the CDC still has zero guidelines on what exactly should be done when an outbreak happens... just guidelines on how to keep a school safe. The fail to also take into account that children have zero sense of hygiene and they are expecting them to follow the rules... which we know that children have zero attention span.

[Methais]

There’s a big difference between an agency, and a person.
The cdc offers quite a few guidelines including remote learning. Not a we don’t give a fuck, just reopen schools, and who cares.

It's a good thing I never said that's what they said then, isn't it?

[Solkern]

It's a good thing I never said that's what they said then, isn't it?

You asked if the cdc is right wing cause they want schools to reopen. That’s not the same as Tgo’s right wing narrative of zero fucks given. Trying to explain the difference, you just put those two together, from your response.

[Tgo01]

Great, now tgo that you understand the issue, if a school shuts down for ten days, how exactly are kids going to get a “normal” education?

I didn't say I agreed, I just said it was an interesting approach. Calm your tits.

[Methais]

You asked if the cdc is right wing cause they want schools to reopen. That’s not the same as Tgo’s right wing narrative of zero fucks given. Trying to explain the difference, you just put those two together, from your response.

That would require me to read every post in this thread, and I'd probably rather level up forging without a script because it would be less mind numbing.

[Tgo01]

It's a direct comparison of consequence between two simple choices, the only strawman is the ridiculous assertion that any adaptations in our methods of education are going to be somehow more detrimental than allowing an already rampant high-morbidity disease the means to spread further, even at a minimum impact. Both options have consequences, yes -- but explain to me how a provisional lack of education is somehow worse than involuntary hospitalization or death when directly compared.

This is why you're really bad at arguing your points, it's just 100% pure emotion for you and when challenged on even the simplest of things you deflect to a safe space for you.

I said Democrats have convinced themselves it's the compassionate approach to deny children a proper education, you are now arguing "which course of action would be more compassionate and considerate of human life." There is more to consider and more to compassion.

Alright, enough allowing you to pretend to be the better person and allowing this endless deflection, just answer my simple question: Do you believe we should shut schools down every year for flu season considering thousands of American kids are hospitalized every year due to the flu and hundreds die? Because that's what you care about right? Ensuring no student gets sick at school and die? Or is it like I said earlier you only care when it's an election year and there is a Republican in the White House? It's pretty obvious what the correct answer is but this should be amusing should you choose to answer a question that directly challenges your way of thinking as opposed to deflecting and appealing to the emotions of cretins such as Solkern.

[Tgo01]

You asked if the cdc is right wing cause they want schools to reopen. That’s not the same as Tgo’s right wing narrative of zero fucks given.

CDC wants the schools to reopen because they are concerned about students receiving a proper education.
Tgo01 wants the schools to reopen because he is concerned about students receiving a proper education.

Solkern: But it's totally different because Tgo01 has a right wing narrative!111!!!!1!11

I'm just curious, Solkern, exactly how many times did your father drop you on your head as a child? Was it more than 20?

[Hedrik]

My wife is an elementary teacher. She gave me an earful this afternoon about the new guidelines for reopening. I'm sure I missed several, but heres what I remember:

- temperature checks on arrival
- max 20 students per classroom.
- only 1 student allowed in the restroom at a time
- students are to wear masks at all times throughout the day except for lunch, which will be delivered to the classrooms
- students are not to hug/touch one another and will have limited permission to speak throughout the schoolday
- students will not share any classroom tools/implements
- there will be no recess and limited PE following 6 ft of social distancing (masks worn throughout)
- classroom dismissal will occur 1 by 1 instead of by groups
- standardized testing and district assessments will not be given for this year

If anyone has young kids, you can see how this is going to be a clusterfuck.

[Tgo01]

If anyone has young kids, you can see how this is going to be a clusterfuck.

Sounds like they are going to boot camp instead of school. If these are the regulations then maybe it is better for kids to just sit in front of a computer all day.

Are these federal guidelines or state guidelines pushed by teachers? Something tells me it's the latter.

[Alfster]

Probably county guidelines.

[Alfster]

The district my kids are in...

Buses will have to be socially distanced outside of immediate family.
Students will wear a mask all day indoors.
Classes will stay together - meaning they'll all have the same schedule for elementary specials.
In school learning Mon/Tues/Thur/Fri, online on Wednesday
No temp checks or anything like that.

[Tgo01]

The district my kids are in...

Buses will have to be socially distanced outside of immediate family.
Students will wear a mask all day indoors.
Classes will stay together - meaning they'll all have the same schedule for elementary specials.
In school learning Mon/Tues/Thur/Fri, online on Wednesday
No temp checks or anything like that.

These don't sound too onerous. I actually think temp checks are a good idea too.

But man, limited permission to talk, no recess, no touching another student. It's like they are treating kids like walking automatons.

[Hedrik]

Sounds like they are going to boot camp instead of school. If these are the regulations then maybe it is better for kids to just sit in front of a computer all day.

Are these federal guidelines or state guidelines pushed by teachers? Something tells me it's the latter.

She teaches at a charter school. The public schools and private schools where we are at all have different guidelines. She’s going to try and help the kids anyway she can but with the restrictions, I’m not sure how effective the school will be compared to virtual classrooms. I just wish the state would declare teachers essential workers and give them the appropriate ppe to teach young kids that have be taught how to wash their hands. The shit they are passing out is useless.

[Tgo01]

She’s going to try and help the kids anyway she can but with the restrictions, I’m not sure how effective the school will be compared to virtual classrooms.

Yeah if the choice is between virtual classrooms and those guidelines for in school learning then sign me up for virtual classrooms.

[Tgo01]

I also get the feeling people like FlayedAngel and Solkern think I'm some sort of monster because they seem to think I'm completely against online learning at all. Like if these teachers and Democrats were just like "Let's do online learning for 6 weeks then we'll go back to in class learning" I would be okay with that too. It's this idea that they seem to want to make this the new norm, like we have to do this until we get a vaccine or something.

Look at the clusterfuck with the shutdowns.

We're shutting down for 2 weeks! Just 2 weeks! Don't worry just 2 weeks.
Okay now it's another 4 weeks. But that's it! We promise!
Okay fuck it, you've all done 6 weeks, surely you can do another 6 weeks while standing on your head.
It's been 3 months now, let's do another month and oh yeah by the way, some businesses might never reopen until we get a vaccine.
Oh shit, riots and protests for BLM? That's fine! That's fine! Everyone go have a great time rioting and protesting, but only if you're rioting and protesting for BLM!
School year starting up? Okay time for more shutdowns, schools need to stay shut down, restaurants need to close again, shit let's just shut everything down again for another 4 months!

[drauz]

I also get the feeling people like FlayedAngel and Solkern think I'm some sort of monster because they seem to think I'm completely against online learning at all. Like if these teachers and Democrats were just like "Let's do online learning for 6 weeks then we'll go back to in class learning" I would be okay with that too. It's this idea that they seem to want to make this the new norm, like we have to do this until we get a vaccine or something.

Look at the clusterfuck with the shutdowns.

We're shutting down for 2 weeks! Just 2 weeks! Don't worry just 2 weeks.
Okay now it's another 4 weeks. But that's it! We promise!
Okay fuck it, you've all done 6 weeks, surely you can do another 6 weeks while standing on your head.
It's been 3 months now, let's do another month and oh yeah by the way, some businesses might never reopen until we get a vaccine.
Oh shit, riots and protests for BLM? That's fine! That's fine! Everyone go have a great time rioting and protesting, but only if you're rioting and protesting for BLM!
School year starting up? Okay time for more shutdowns, schools need to stay shut down, restaurants need to close again, shit let's just shut everything down again for another 4 months!

It's probably the gross over simplification of their stance and the issues as a whole.

[Tgo01]

It's probably the gross over simplification of their stance and the issues as a whole.

How am I oversimplifying their stance? They are in favor of online learning, seemingly until we get a vaccine, because kids might get sick. The rest of their stance is just saying what a bad person I am and what a good person they are because they supposedly care about people yet I'm nearly 100% certain they never even gave a single thought to hundreds of American kids dying every year to the flu.

[Solkern]

I also get the feeling people like FlayedAngel and Solkern think I'm some sort of monster because they seem to think I'm completely against online learning at all. Like if these teachers and Democrats were just like "Let's do online learning for 6 weeks then we'll go back to in class learning" I would be okay with that too. It's this idea that they seem to want to make this the new norm, like we have to do this until we get a vaccine or something.

Look at the clusterfuck with the shutdowns.

We're shutting down for 2 weeks! Just 2 weeks! Don't worry just 2 weeks.
Okay now it's another 4 weeks. But that's it! We promise!
Okay fuck it, you've all done 6 weeks, surely you can do another 6 weeks while standing on your head.
It's been 3 months now, let's do another month and oh yeah by the way, some businesses might never reopen until we get a vaccine.
Oh shit, riots and protests for BLM? That's fine! That's fine! Everyone go have a great time rioting and protesting, but only if you're rioting and protesting for BLM!
School year starting up? Okay time for more shutdowns, schools need to stay shut down, restaurants need to close again, shit let's just shut everything down again for another 4 months!


Actually, I don’t think you are a monster, I just don’t think you fully think things out.
I’m all for schools reopening, if they could be done safely with a plan when an outbreak happens... which there isn’t... that’s One of the many reasons that makes me against schools being reopened. I also don’t think schools can be reopened safely in any capacity right now, especially with children.

You mentioned shutting down for 6 weeks and then reopening, I’ve already brought up this idea, and if I remember right, you shot it down. And what happens after 6 weeks? If the current situation isn’t any better, or it’s worse? Then what happens?
You want a plan for the future that is currently unknown.. and no data to help us make that plan. If coronavirus wasn’t going wild and we had it under control, then we can start making a plan using that information. Currently it’s out of control, so making an plan just isn’t really viable when it’s related to school openings.

[Tgo01]

You mentioned shutting down for 6 weeks and then reopening, I’ve already brought up this idea, and if I remember right, you shot it down.

I don't mean like every time someone gets sick they shut the whole school down for 6 weeks. I mean if school districts aren't yet ready to open because the teachers union has been acting like a bunch of tyrants and don't want schools to reopen then the local district finds their balls again, tells the teachers union to do their jobs or they will be replaced, then take 6 weeks to come up with a plan on how to reopen as safely as possible.

Your problem is you keep asking for schools to reopen "safely", which is literally impossible, the goal should be to reopen as safely as possible.

There will never be a time or place where schools can be 100% safe. That's just life.

[Solkern]

I don't mean like every time someone gets sick they shut the whole school down for 6 weeks. I mean if school districts aren't yet ready to open because the teachers union has been acting like a bunch of tyrants and don't want schools to reopen then the local district finds their balls again, tells the teachers union to do their jobs or they will be replaced, then take 6 weeks to come up with a plan on how to reopen as safely as possible.

Your problem is you keep asking for schools to reopen "safely", which is literally impossible, the goal should be to reopen as safely as possible.

There will never be a time or place where schools can be 100% safe. That's just life.

Sorry that’s what I mean, online for 4-6 weeks and have a plan to reopen.

[Solkern]

But still, there shouldn’t be a HARD stance on when it should reopen. It should be reopened based on the current situation.

Currently the situation is absolute shit, will it get better? I fucking hope, but if it gets worse, what should we do? Reopen anyways? Or reassess the situation and make another decision at that time?

That’s what I’ve been trying to say. Do online teaching for 3-6 weeks. Reassess the situation during this time. If the situation improves reopen, if not, do the cycle again.

[Solkern]

There will never be a time or place where schools can be 100% safe. That's just life.

That logic can be applied to everything. So you can’t look at it like that.
People always get sick from food, so why bother even having an FDA?
It’s about minimizing the risk and casualties.

[Tgo01]

People always get sick from food, so why bother even having an FDA?

Except that's not at all a proper analogy of what is going on.

The better analogy for this situation would be "People get sick from food, let's all stop eating!"

Since people are saying "People might get sick at school, no more in school learning!"

[Solkern]

Except that's not at all a proper analogy of what is going on.

The better analogy for this situation would be "People get sick from food, let's all stop eating!"

Since people are saying "People might get sick at school, no more in school learning!"

Except learning doesn’t stop now does it? It’ll still be done online. So yeah your analogy doesn’t work.

I said let’s do remote learning until this pandemic is under control. At least I have, I won’t speak for others. But I’ve never heard anyone say, no more in class learning! Students might get sick!

[Tgo01]

Except learning doesn’t stop now does it? It’ll still be done online.

So we give up in school learning which was my entire point.

I was really trying to give you a chance here to break my three-Solkern-posts-a-day limit but this just reminded me why I have the limit to begin with. See you tomorrow!

[Solkern]

So we give up in school learning which was my entire point.

I was really trying to give you a chance here to break my three-Solkern-posts-a-day limit but this just reminded me why I have the limit to begin with. See you tomorrow!

Huh? Where did you even get that from? When did I ever say we give up learning in school?
You seriously lack reading comprehension.

[Alfster]

Except learning doesn’t stop now does it? It’ll still be done online. So yeah your analogy doesn’t work.

I said let’s do remote learning until this pandemic is under control. At least I have, I won’t speak for others. But I’ve never heard anyone say, no more in class learning! Students might get sick!

Remote learning for elementary school aged kids is complete bullshit. We gave our best shot at this in April and it was a disaster. I'm pushing to keep my kids in classroom as much as possible, as social skills need to be learned. Once they're a bit more mature - great, but I don't know how to teach my kid to read...I just know how to read. Majority of the online learning at that age is "watch this video" which just gets tuned out

[FlayedAngel]

I cannot find a single budget where the education system was "gutted", let alone gone down, since 1981. Where are you getting your facts? I got mine from the Education Department budgets which are available here. https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/history/index.html
My bad, that was a bit of a misnomer born of and elevated by sarcasm; it's less that our educational system has been gutted over time, as implied, and more that it's been woefully underfunded for a long time now... that was a misrepresentation on my part, apologies.

Contemporary concerns (https://educationvotes.nea.org/2019/03/22/devos/) facing our public school systems might have been a more valid choice.

[FlayedAngel]

I didn't say I agreed, I just said it was an interesting approach. Calm your tits.
https://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Party+tit_23c142_6047495.jpg



I also get the feeling people like FlayedAngel and Solkern think I'm some sort of monster because they seem to think I'm completely against online learning at all. Like if these teachers and Democrats were just like "Let's do online learning for 6 weeks then we'll go back to in class learning" I would be okay with that too. It's this idea that they seem to want to make this the new norm, like we have to do this until we get a vaccine or something.

Look at the clusterfuck with the shutdowns.

We're shutting down for 2 weeks! Just 2 weeks! Don't worry just 2 weeks.
Okay now it's another 4 weeks. But that's it! We promise!
Okay fuck it, you've all done 6 weeks, surely you can do another 6 weeks while standing on your head.
It's been 3 months now, let's do another month and oh yeah by the way, some businesses might never reopen until we get a vaccine.
Oh shit, riots and protests for BLM? That's fine! That's fine! Everyone go have a great time rioting and protesting, but only if you're rioting and protesting for BLM!
School year starting up? Okay time for more shutdowns, schools need to stay shut down, restaurants need to close again, shit let's just shut everything down again for another 4 months!
I don't think you're a monster, I just think you have perceivable difficulty in seeing outside of your own insular perspective... point in case, your portrayal of the situation above.

But credit where credit is due, props to you for at least considering the merits of tele-schooling when presented with specific logistical issues of reopening schools.

[Parkbandit]

My bad, that was a bit of a misnomer born of and elevated by sarcasm; it's less that our educational system has been gutted over time, as implied, and more that it's been woefully underfunded for a long time now... that was a misrepresentation on my part, apologies.


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SophisticatedPiercingAustraliansilkyterrier-size_restricted.gif

[FlayedAngel]

Bill Gates couldn't even save Windows from viruses.
https://giffiles.alphacoders.com/151/1516.gif




This is why you're really bad at arguing your points, it's just 100% pure emotion for you and when challenged on even the simplest of things you deflect to a safe space for you.

I said Democrats have convinced themselves it's the compassionate approach to deny children a proper education, you are now arguing "which course of action would be more compassionate and considerate of human life." There is more to consider and more to compassion.

Alright, enough allowing you to pretend to be the better person and allowing this endless deflection, just answer my simple question: Do you believe we should shut schools down every year for flu season considering thousands of American kids are hospitalized every year due to the flu and hundreds die? Because that's what you care about right? Ensuring no student gets sick at school and die? Or is it like I said earlier you only care when it's an election year and there is a Republican in the White House? It's pretty obvious what the correct answer is but this should be amusing should you choose to answer a question that directly challenges your way of thinking as opposed to deflecting and appealing to the emotions of cretins such as Solkern.
I'll answer your question first, even though -- once again -- it's pretty clear you can't actually directly refute what I said.

No, I don't believe there's any reason to shut down for the flu, because we already deal with it every year; you're not wrong that the flu takes its toll worldwide, but we have extant vaccines and other means to combat or minimize its effects yearly, and more importantly, we know what to expect from it and can prepare accordingly.

This isn't true of the novel Coronavirus, which is part of why a direct comparison is problematic -- we lack sufficient (and in some cases, even accurate) data, we lack any form of a vaccine, and we lack the means to safely predict what it's ultimately capable of... such as a possible higher number of (and more lengthy) hospitalizations as a result, etcetera.


See which: (http://https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu) The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher than that of most strains of the flu.

*This information comes from the Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases map developed by the Johns Hopkins Center for Systems Science and Engineering. (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)


Now: In what way was my response any more based upon emotion than what you stated?

You're throwing out random nonsense about safe spaces and election years at this point, and I'm beginning to have serious doubts that you even know what the term "deflect" means when you're so obviously doing it.

[Gelston]

Remote learning for elementary school aged kids is complete bullshit. We gave our best shot at this in April and it was a disaster. I'm pushing to keep my kids in classroom as much as possible, as social skills need to be learned. Once they're a bit more mature - great, but I don't know how to teach my kid to read...I just know how to read. Majority of the online learning at that age is "watch this video" which just gets tuned out

The last couple months where we had remote learning was a fucking shit show. The youngest had a kindergarten zoom class every morning that only like half of his class attended. The other two had dumbass youtube videos to watch and some multiple choice questions. Bother the older kids have straight As now though. One deserved it, the other is usually a C student.

I don't feel they learned shit. Instead of education being like 75-25 Techer/Parent, it is going to be more 30-70 and a lot of parents don't have time for that. That is why teachers are paid.

[Solkern]

The last couple months where we had remote learning was a fucking shit show. The youngest had a kindergarten zoom class every morning that only like half of his class attended. The other two had dumbass youtube videos to watch and some multiple choice questions. Bother the older kids have straight As now though. One deserved it, the other is usually a C student.

I don't feel they learned shit. Instead of education being like 75-25 Techer/Parent, it is going to be more 30-70 and a lot of parents don't have time for that. That is why teachers are paid.


That's on the teacher, not the students... those teachers should be reported for not properly preparing for classes.. I doubt these teachers' in person classes are any better than handing out a sheet for the students to fill in, while she scrolls the interwebs.

[Fleur-de-me]

I think decisions regarding children, whatever they maybe are better made by that child's parents (or legal guardian) not the government. Open the schools as safely as possible, and let the parents evaluate and see if the risk is worth the reward. Let's not over think this.

[Hedrik]

Remote learning for elementary school aged kids is complete bullshit. We gave our best shot at this in April and it was a disaster. I'm pushing to keep my kids in classroom as much as possible, as social skills need to be learned. Once they're a bit more mature - great, but I don't know how to teach my kid to read...I just know how to read. Majority of the online learning at that age is "watch this video" which just gets tuned out

This is pretty much spot on for elementary kids. There's going to be a lot of fine tuning with remote learning.

Some of my wife's friends were telling us how tech savvy some of these young kids are and how they are outsmarting their teachers. The kids still framed their photo and their teachers are wondering why no one is blinking or moving for over an hour.

[FlayedAngel]

Some of my wife's friends were telling us how tech savvy some of these young kids are and how they are outsmarting their teachers. The kids still framed their photo and their teachers are wondering why no one is blinking or moving for over an hour.
Hah, good for them.

[FlayedAngel]

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117145217_10220873932052317_3512628962129539155_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=BBACmlpukjUAX_plsDy&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=672bf2717376216044f87e464b29f13e&oe=5F59F9C7

[Methais]

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117145217_10220873932052317_3512628962129539155_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=BBACmlpukjUAX_plsDy&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=672bf2717376216044f87e464b29f13e&oe=5F59F9C7

The stupidest thing about the whole mask thing is it doesn't matter if what you're wearing on your face is effective or not, as people seem to only care that you're wearing something on your face, despite it being completely useless in a lot of cases...bandanas, crochet masks, having no filter, etc.

[Tgo01]

The stupidest thing about the whole mask thing is it doesn't matter if what you're wearing on your face is effective or not, as people seem to only care that you're wearing something on your face, despite it being completely useless in a lot of cases...bandanas, crochet masks, having no filter, etc.

Yup. People only care if your face is covered. There is a video of a guy walking around in a store wearing something over his face that has giant holes in it and no one gives a single shit.

To a lot of people it's about forcing people to knuckle under and go with the flow, they don't give a shit about safety.

[Tgo01]

Remember when there was a scare of "death panels" coming to America with the introduction of Obamacare? The idea was that health care would have to be rationed and death panels would determine who would live and who would die? Remember how Democrats cried and cried and said such a thing would never happen in America? Well it looks like the fear mongering was justified, just 10 years too soon.

https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/disease/coronavirus/Pages/Guidance/Ethical-Allocation-Framework.aspx


Epidemiological data reveal a disproportionate burden of COVID-19 in low income communities and certain racial/ ethnic minorities.

...

The rationale is that a core goal of public health is to redress inequities that make health and safety less accessible to disadvantaged groups—we show equal respect for all members of society by mitigating the structural inequities that cause certain communities to bear the greatest burden during the pandemic. One strategy to accomplish this is to use a metric like the Area Deprivation Index1 to identify patients from disadvantaged communities, then give them somewhat increased chances to receive treatment in a weighted lottery (see appendix A).

Yes that's right the state of PA is dictating to hospitals that they should base care on the following criteria:

If you're a "Disadvantaged community member" you have a better chance at receiving treatment that is scarce.
If you're an "Essential worker" you have a better chance as well.
If you're a "Disadvantaged community member" AND an "Essential worker" you have the best chances of receiving treatment.
If you're a "Disadvantaged community member" or an "Essential worker" and you're likely to die within a year your chances go down.
If you're white, not an essential worker, and you're likely to die within a year you have the worst chances of receiving treatment.

Aren't death panels fun?!?

This is where every Democrat reading this knows how fucked up it is, can't possibly defend such an evil practice, so chooses to ignore it on move on to the next drummed up outrage from the left.

[FlayedAngel]

Yes, IF ONLY someone could have foreseen a need to flatten the curve...

[Tgo01]

Yes, IF ONLY someone could have foreseen a need to flatten the curve...

What are you even on about now?

[Methais]

Yes, IF ONLY someone could have foreseen a need to flatten the curve...

Remember when they made everyone stay home for 2 weeks and told us that that would flatten the curve though?

[Tgo01]

Remember when they made everyone stay home for 2 weeks and told us that that would flatten the curve though?

And that morphed into 6 weeks, then 12 weeks, and in some instances is still ongoing today 5 months later?

Why are people still peddling this lie about this being about flattening the curve? How blind can people be?

[Methais]

And that morphed into 6 weeks, then 12 weeks, and in some instances is still ongoing today 5 months later?

Why are people still peddling this lie about this being about flattening the curve? How blind can people be?

I haven't kept up with numbers lately, but I'm pretty sure it's been flattened and hospitals aren't being overwhelmed or any of that.

I guess everyone just seems to have forgotten that flattening the curve results in everything being drawn out over a longer period of time or something, instead of OK WE STAYED HOME FOR 2 WEEKS WHY ARE WE STILL SEEING CASES OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG TRUMP!!!!

[FlayedAngel]

Simple answer?

Because the idiots refusing to wear masks keep fucking it up for everyone.

[Tgo01]

Simple answer?

Because the idiots refusing to wear masks keep fucking it up for everyone.

Right, that must be it.

Enforced physical distancing, everything closed down for months and many businesses still closed to this day, borders are closed, testing is sky high, paid leave for having to quarantine, schools closed down for last few weeks of school year plus being closed for summer and many schools STILL closed down for in school learning, beaches closed down for months, and that's not enough because some people don't wear masks. Oh yeah and let's ignore the mass protests and riots that Democrats not only allowed but actively encouraged and participated in.

Come on, my guy, even you have to admit that's bullshit.

[FlayedAngel]

I haven't kept up with numbers lately, but I'm pretty sure it's been flattened and hospitals aren't being overwhelmed or any of that.

I guess everyone just seems to have forgotten that flattening the curve results in everything being drawn out over a longer period of time or something, instead of OK WE STAYED HOME FOR 2 WEEKS WHY ARE WE STILL SEEING CASES OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG TRUMP!!!!
You're not wrong, that's why I was making fun of it.

The sarchasm was a bit too wide, it seems.

[Methais]

You're not wrong, that's why I was making fun of it.

The sarchasm was a bit too wide, it seems.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/p4UhBb3LIyt20/giphy.gif

[FlayedAngel]

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117751251_10157289245066604_3386664265318365917_n. jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ioCfUMek2SsAX-hR8fT&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=d8c0b5afbcd584a0da8f59b99efde3a2&oe=5F5A852B

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Unemployment claims below 1 million, first time since March. We are making progress against the Kung Flu.

[Methais]

Unemployment claims below 1 million, first time since March. We are making progress against the Kung Flu.

Elected democrats after hearing this:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p4UhBb3LIyt20/giphy.gif

[Tgo01]

Elected democrats after hearing this:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p4UhBb3LIyt20/giphy.gif

Exactly what I was thinking. The governors of NY, MI, NJ, and CA must already be thinking of ways they can shut more shut down to get those numbers up.

[~Rocktar~]

Something interesting that came across my feed:


From @Tom Woods:

By now we’ve all gotten the message: you’re selfish if you’d like to do the kinds of things that once gave your life meaning.

For these people, life is about nothing but the avoidance of death.

Virtually everything you’ve looked forward to has been canceled, and nobody will tell you when you can have those things back. “When we have a vaccine,” comes the raving lunatic’s answer.

Nobody was giving you that answer when they were pushing “15 days to flatten the curve.” They didn’t dare.

Instead, they kept us in our homes for those 15 days, and then 15 days after that, and 15 days after that. Each time they pushed the date back we grew more demoralized, more resigned to a barren life without “large gatherings” – i.e., everything that makes life fun – and “virtual” events over Zoom.

Oh, and no hugs, no weddings, 10 people at your father’s funeral, and a long list of other grotesque demands.

What metrics were they using to decide when we’d be allowed back out again, when our businesses could open (and when they could operate at a level that made profit even a remote possibility), and when those life-giving pleasures that bring us meaning and fulfillment could be resumed? Who knows?

All we heard was: everything is canceled.

Maybe you can have it in 2021.

Maybe you can have it when there’s a vaccine – as if there’s a guarantee of that.

Well, a terrifying statistic came out last week showing the grim – if entirely predictable – effects all this inhuman regimentation has been having on the young, particularly those between 18 and 24.

Here are some figures from the federal government's Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. They are percentages of people who have considered suicide within the previous 12 months, organized by age.

Note that the 18 to 25 group fluctuates between 6.8 percent and 11 percent:

Now, from the Centers for Disease Control, we find that percentage (for the 18-24 group) has leaped to 25.5 percent -- and this survey asks not about the previous 12 months, but whether they've considered suicide just in the past 30 days:

(Note also the huge jump in the numbers for people in their mid-20s through their 40s; to see the graphic more easily, just click on it.)

We’ve taken away everything they love, deprived them of the opportunity to socialize and to experience those irreplaceable moments of youth, and demanded they accept this dystopia as the “new normal.”

Now that’s selfish.

Part of the natural order is that parents make sacrifices for their children, not the other way around. If vulnerable people wish to isolate themselves – a perfectly sensible course of action for some individuals – then they should isolate themselves, not demand that young people sacrifice everything dear to them and live atomized existences for a period of time that our overlords refuse to specify.

As I pass through middle age, the thought would never occur to me to make these demands of younger people. Am I prepared to tell them that while I enjoyed these pleasures when I was young, for the sake of my comfort they cannot have them? Who thinks like that?

Some of us – yes, even many of us in middle age and beyond – are prepared to say: this is no way for anyone, young or old, to live.

We want a life that includes weddings, family celebrations, hugs, live concerts, drinks with friends, thriving businesses, the arts, school dances, theater, and friendship from less than six feet away – and we’re willing to accept whatever risk accompanies these things, because no other kind of life is worthy of a human being.

And it’s not just the deprivation of basic, non-negotiable joys that the lockdowns cause. Even the New York Times admitted that lockdowns will lead to 1.4 million excess TB deaths, 500,000 excess HIV deaths, and 385,000 excess malaria deaths.

That’s on top of the 1.2 million children UNICEF expects to die as a result of the lockdowns.

Not to mention how many people have been prevented – by deadly regulations driven by irrational fear, or by irrational fear itself, drummed into them by a grossly irresponsible news media – from receiving major medical care they need. In the UK they’ve been predicting more avoidable cancer deaths than COVID deaths because of this problem.

Meanwhile, Doomers have been peddling a comic-book version of the virus. When Wisconsin courts said bars could reopen, this was supposed to lead to a massive spike in deaths there. All the social-media scolds said so. No such thing happened. Did this cause them to rethink their comic-book approach? You can guess the answer.

They practically cheered when spikes hit Arizona, Texas, and Florida, and they blamed those states’ reopenings – even though those states had been open for eight weeks before the spikes occurred.

Those spikes are over now, and they were brought down without lockdowns. Yes, some bars were closed, but what really happened, as Alex Berenson put it, is that they simply pretended they were restaurants.

South Dakota never closed at all. They had an outbreak at a meatpacking plant, but those are unrepresentative of society at large when it comes to the virus. The state is doing great – just 17 deaths per 100,000. Oh, they have low population density, you say. Well, Rachel Maddow insisted that disaster was bound to strike there, even mocking the governor: “You realize it’s an infectious disease?”

In fact, Governor Kristi Noem is now using her sensible approach as a selling point to recruit new South Dakota residents.

Everybody wants to criticize Sweden for not locking down – and no wonder: if a country can have good results without locking down, it makes the lockdowners look like the crazed sociopaths they are.

Oh, Sweden had a high death rate! That’s what they say. Well, around three-quarters of the deaths in Sweden occurred in some kind of long-term care facility, and the Swedes admit their failure there.

But that has nothing to do with the overall soundness of Sweden’s approach, since those facilities are isolated from society. How did society at large do? Extremely well. Number of people under 50 who died, out of a country of 10 million? Seventy.

These days there are barely any deaths at all in Sweden.

The virus does what it will do, despite the ad hoc destructionism of our control freaks with their white coats and clipboards.

There’s a sickness out there, all right, but I’m not talking about COVID-19.

I’m talking about the irrational, fact-free response.

Demand your life back.

Take your life back.

That isn’t selfish. You get one life. You want to live it. That’s normal.

What’s selfish and abnormal is the presumption that other people are entitled to your life.

If they want to live as prisoners in their own homes and experience life over Zoom, they can be our guest.

The rest of us intend to live.

[ClydeR]

The Deep State never relents..


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgBdRvCWkAAnJe9?format=png&name=small

[Tgo01]

I bought some new masks that are thicker and have a pouch for a filter (although I didn't put filters in them) and I had it on for no more than 20 minutes inside of a store before I felt like I was going to pass out. I had such trouble breathing with this mask on that I was literally taking big breaths with my mouth wide open just to get enough to breathe.

I left the store before I could finish shopping because I could hardly breathe with this mask on. That was about 2 hours ago and I have been sitting at home ever since and I still feel like I am suffocating.

Don't give me none of this "anti-masker" label shit. I've been wearing masks before it was cool, back when I was literally the only person in the entire store wearing a mask, including customers and employees.

My point is I can see why some people say they have trouble breathing with masks on because I have now experienced it for the first time. At the same time I can see why many people think masks aren't very effective because clearly the mask I could hardly breathe in is probably the type of mask we should all be wearing. The mask is more tightly constructed which doesn't allow as much shit to filter out of the mask which is also why it's more difficult to breathe in it. Everyone is wearing paper thin masks that they can breathe in just fine and thinking it's now okay to get onto a crowded subway train or bus.

Physical distancing > paper thin masks.

[~Rocktar~]

https://www.facebook.com/Directtothepeople/videos/607916109919074/

[Methais]

https://i.imgur.com/mZ9buOn.png (https://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/the-pursuit-of-happiness/content/2020-08-25-covid-governor-of-maine-instructs-restaurant-employees-to-wear-dog-cones)

https://media.tenor.com/images/4e7e524ed29142983b7fe54d30216440/tenor.gif

[FlayedAngel]

https://i.imgur.com/mZ9buOn.png (https://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/the-pursuit-of-happiness/content/2020-08-25-covid-governor-of-maine-instructs-restaurant-employees-to-wear-dog-cones)
https://media.tenor.com/images/2382b0ca3db2969b94eb416f1391a750/tenor.gif

[Methais]

https://media.tenor.com/images/2382b0ca3db2969b94eb416f1391a750/tenor.gif

According to the Facebook "fact checkers:"

https://i.imgur.com/W5cxshP.png (https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/altered-image-falsely-suggests-that-restaurant-staff-in-maine-are-required-to-wear-dog-cone-style-face-visors-to-protect-against-covid-19)

Because that totally makes it cool and wouldn't at all look like a dog cone. :lol:

[Methais]

NEW YORK TIMES: UP TO 90% OF PEOPLE WITH “POSITIVE” COVID TEST RESULTS AREN’T INFECTIOUS
by Kevin Ryan

“Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.”

That’s the title of a New York Times article today that has very significant implications for COVID policy moving forward.

“The standard tests are diagnosing huge numbers of people who may be carrying relatively insignificant amounts of the virus. Most of these people are not likely to be contagious,” the New York Times writes.

“The tests being used are too sensitive, meaning they pick up even tiny fragments of virus that do not indicate a person is actually meaningfully infected.”

Indeed an investigation by the newspaper finds that up to 90% of positive test results are in people who are not infectious.

THE EXPLANATION

The PCR test searches for the virus by amplifying virus materials, essentially growing them in amplification “cycles” until they are detectable. The smaller the amount of virus, the more cycles are needed to detect it.

Often the test uses so many amplification cycles that even the tiniest genetic fragments – leftovers from infection that pose no risk whatsoever – trigger positive test results.

And the test result merely returns “Positive” or “Negative”, with no indication of how much virus was found, or how many amplification cycles were needed to find the virus (called the cycle threshold).

THE PROBLEM

A test result that simply says positive or negative “isn’t good enough” according the doctors interviewed for the New York Times article. It’s the AMOUNT of virus found that should dictate whether the test result should be categorized as positive, and what the patient should do next.

“It’s really irresponsible,” Dr. Michael Mina, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. “We’ve been using one type of data for everything, and that is just plus or minus — that’s all. We’re using that for clinical diagnostics, for public health, for policy decision-making.”

“It’s just kind of mind-blowing to me… that they’re just returning a positive or a negative,” said Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University in New York. “It would be useful information to know if somebody’s positive, whether they have a high viral load or a low viral load,” she added.

Just how many of the “positive” test results are from patients who have so little virus that they aren’t infectious?

The New York Times reviewed three sets of testing data from Massachusetts, New York, and Nevada. It found that 90% of people who tested “positive” carried barely any virus.

If that rate holds true for the entire county, it would mean that the United States has far fewer actual infectious cases of COVID than is being reported.

“On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing,” the Times wrote.

Experts informed of these numbers were stunned.

“I’m shocked that people would think that [such small amounts of virus] could represent a positive,” Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside, said.

“I would say that none of those people should be contact-traced, not one,” Dr. Mina said.

The number of people with positive results who aren’t infectious is particularly concerning, said Scott Becker, executive director of the Association of Public Health Laboratories. “That worries me a lot.”

“I’m really shocked” Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, agreed. “Boy, does it really change the way we need to be thinking about testing.”

THE IMPLICATIONS

Just yesterday, California revamped its criteria for reopening businesses, basing it on how many positive test results a county has instead of hospitalizations, and setting the bar incredibly low. Just 1 new positive test per day out of 15,000 residents now keeps a county at the strictest level where nearly all businesses are shut down or heavily restricted.

But today’s revelation by the New York Times shows that such a move will essentially keep the state permanently locked down with little regard for how many of those positive test results are actually from infectious Californians, and how many are from overly sensitive PCR tests.

Indeed, most of the case-based measurements that the media has been using to gauge how the states are doing at controlling COVID may now be all but meaningless in light of the New York Times data.

Also, comparing the summer “surge” in some states to the spring outbreak is also now less meaningful. In the spring, only symptomatic people were being tested. Symptomatic people are those who have the highest viral loads, and therefore did not need a lot of “amplification” in their tests to result in a positive test.

But in the summer, the guidelines switched to testing more people, including those who were not symptomatic. This likely resulted in significantly more “positive” results from non-infectious patients.

THE SOLUTION

One solution would be to adjust the cycle threshold used to decide if a patient is infected. Most tests set the limit at 40. “Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive” scientists interviewed by the Times agreed. Dr. Mina said he would set the figure at 30, or even less.

From 70% to 90% of tests would no longer be judged positive if the amplification cycles were limited to 30, according to the Times.

And less sensitive, rapid tests should be used to verify positive PCR results, Dr. Mina said.

“In what may be a step in this direction, the Trump administration announced on Thursday that it would purchase 150 million rapid tests,” the New York Times article said.

SOURCES: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html
https://covid19.ca.gov/safer-economy/

[Tgo01]

Just yesterday, California revamped its criteria for reopening businesses, basing it on how many positive test results a county has instead of hospitalizations

Isn't amazing isn't it? I vividly remember when this whole thing started the mantra was "Flatten the curve!", "Don't overwhelm our hospitals!"

It was never "100% stop the spread!"

We knew from the beginning it was impossible to completely stop the spread. We knew it was impossible to prevent anyone from dying or getting sick. The entire point of the shutdown was to ensure our hospitals didn't get overrun, and it turns out our hospitals were never even close to being overrun, even when were had 70k cases a day. And yet people still go along with this shit.

"We aren't going by hospitalizations anymore but by how many people are testing positive!" Wait what? What happened to this being all about hospitalizations? What happened to personal responsibility? Just how badly do Democrats want to win this election? They seem willing to burn the entire country to ground if they think it will give them a slight boost at the polls.

[Parkbandit]

https://www.rvtravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ezgif.com-optimize.gif

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

NEW YORK TIMES: UP TO 90% OF PEOPLE WITH “POSITIVE” COVID TEST RESULTS AREN’T INFECTIOUS
by Kevin Ryan

“Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.”

That’s the title of a New York Times article today that has very significant implications for COVID policy moving forward.

“The standard tests are diagnosing huge numbers of people who may be carrying relatively insignificant amounts of the virus. Most of these people are not likely to be contagious,” the New York Times writes.

“The tests being used are too sensitive, meaning they pick up even tiny fragments of virus that do not indicate a person is actually meaningfully infected.”

Indeed an investigation by the newspaper finds that up to 90% of positive test results are in people who are not infectious.

THE EXPLANATION

The PCR test searches for the virus by amplifying virus materials, essentially growing them in amplification “cycles” until they are detectable. The smaller the amount of virus, the more cycles are needed to detect it.

Often the test uses so many amplification cycles that even the tiniest genetic fragments – leftovers from infection that pose no risk whatsoever – trigger positive test results.

And the test result merely returns “Positive” or “Negative”, with no indication of how much virus was found, or how many amplification cycles were needed to find the virus (called the cycle threshold).

THE PROBLEM

A test result that simply says positive or negative “isn’t good enough” according the doctors interviewed for the New York Times article. It’s the AMOUNT of virus found that should dictate whether the test result should be categorized as positive, and what the patient should do next.

“It’s really irresponsible,” Dr. Michael Mina, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. “We’ve been using one type of data for everything, and that is just plus or minus — that’s all. We’re using that for clinical diagnostics, for public health, for policy decision-making.”

“It’s just kind of mind-blowing to me… that they’re just returning a positive or a negative,” said Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University in New York. “It would be useful information to know if somebody’s positive, whether they have a high viral load or a low viral load,” she added.

Just how many of the “positive” test results are from patients who have so little virus that they aren’t infectious?

The New York Times reviewed three sets of testing data from Massachusetts, New York, and Nevada. It found that 90% of people who tested “positive” carried barely any virus.

If that rate holds true for the entire county, it would mean that the United States has far fewer actual infectious cases of COVID than is being reported.

“On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing,” the Times wrote.

Experts informed of these numbers were stunned.

“I’m shocked that people would think that [such small amounts of virus] could represent a positive,” Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside, said.

“I would say that none of those people should be contact-traced, not one,” Dr. Mina said.

The number of people with positive results who aren’t infectious is particularly concerning, said Scott Becker, executive director of the Association of Public Health Laboratories. “That worries me a lot.”

“I’m really shocked” Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, agreed. “Boy, does it really change the way we need to be thinking about testing.”

THE IMPLICATIONS

Just yesterday, California revamped its criteria for reopening businesses, basing it on how many positive test results a county has instead of hospitalizations, and setting the bar incredibly low. Just 1 new positive test per day out of 15,000 residents now keeps a county at the strictest level where nearly all businesses are shut down or heavily restricted.

But today’s revelation by the New York Times shows that such a move will essentially keep the state permanently locked down with little regard for how many of those positive test results are actually from infectious Californians, and how many are from overly sensitive PCR tests.

Indeed, most of the case-based measurements that the media has been using to gauge how the states are doing at controlling COVID may now be all but meaningless in light of the New York Times data.

Also, comparing the summer “surge” in some states to the spring outbreak is also now less meaningful. In the spring, only symptomatic people were being tested. Symptomatic people are those who have the highest viral loads, and therefore did not need a lot of “amplification” in their tests to result in a positive test.

But in the summer, the guidelines switched to testing more people, including those who were not symptomatic. This likely resulted in significantly more “positive” results from non-infectious patients.

THE SOLUTION

One solution would be to adjust the cycle threshold used to decide if a patient is infected. Most tests set the limit at 40. “Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive” scientists interviewed by the Times agreed. Dr. Mina said he would set the figure at 30, or even less.

From 70% to 90% of tests would no longer be judged positive if the amplification cycles were limited to 30, according to the Times.

And less sensitive, rapid tests should be used to verify positive PCR results, Dr. Mina said.

“In what may be a step in this direction, the Trump administration announced on Thursday that it would purchase 150 million rapid tests,” the New York Times article said.

SOURCES: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html
https://covid19.ca.gov/safer-economy/


Your post was so long I for sure thought it was T4F or Latrin. I'm about to go neg rep you for that.

[Parkbandit]

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/national-news/new-cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-u-s-had-contributing-conditions/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR3-wrg3tTKK5-9tOHPGAHWFVO3DfslkJ0KsDEPQpWmPbKtp6EsoVV2Qs1Q

[Taernath]

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/national-news/new-cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-u-s-had-contributing-conditions/

I believe it. It would be wrong to think that the takeaway is that covid isn't dangerous though. We Americans are a generally fat and unhealthy lot, and while it would be Ruggedly Individual™ to die of a heart attack at 50, it's probably better to not be nudged in that direction by something we can control.

In fact, I would say the takeaway is that we need better, more accessible and affordable healthcare, but that's a story for another time.

[Tgo01]

It would be wrong to think that the takeaway is that covid isn't dangerous though.

It's dangerous to elderly and sick people, it's practically a non-issue for young healthy people, so why are we still locking people in their homes and closing down businesses and schools?

[Gelston]

It's dangerous to elderly and sick people, it's practically a non-issue for young healthy people, so why are we still locking people in their homes and closing down businesses and schools?

Because it potentially does permanent damage to the cardio-respiratory system.

[Wrathbringer]

Because it potentially does permanent damage to the cardio-respiratory system.

"Potentially" :lol: Again, if you're scared, stay home. The rest of us have a constitutional right to live life.

[Gelston]

The rest of us have a constitutional right to live life.

Apparently you don't.

[FlayedAngel]

"Potentially" :lol: Again, if you're scared, stay home. The rest of us have a constitutional right to live life.
You're that Wal-Mart dude, aren't you?

[~Rocktar~]

I believe it. It would be wrong to think that the takeaway is that covid isn't dangerous though. We Americans are a generally fat and unhealthy lot, and while it would be Ruggedly Individual™ to die of a heart attack at 50, it's probably better to not be nudged in that direction by something we can control.

In fact, I would say the takeaway is that we need better, more accessible and affordable healthcare, but that's a story for another time.

Since the vast majority of health issues in the US are due to poor nutrition and lack of physical activity, we might better spend our money on revising the horrible FDA food guidance, stop trying to shove a one size fits all nutrition plan down people's throats and maybe work on improving truth in labeling.

[Solkern]

Since the vast majority of health issues in the US are due to poor nutrition and lack of physical activity, we might better spend our money on revising the horrible FDA food guidance, stop trying to shove a one size fits all nutrition plan down people's throats and maybe work on improving truth in labeling.

Weren’t you just a bit ago, fighting for LESS government interference? Now you want the government to do more?
Which is it?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Weren’t you just a bit ago, fighting for LESS government interference? Now you want the government to do more?
Which is it?

Oh, it's all or nothing, obviously. Nice argument.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Because it potentially does permanent damage to the cardio-respiratory system.

I've read that here a couple times, but I've not seen anything since a couple of one off reports in april and June. Has there been a study or something more recently showing the same?

It makes sense to me, I mean if you are older and get some very debilitating disease, I think it's natural that your heart/lungs might fully recovered.

[FlayedAngel]

Oh, it's all or nothing, obviously. Nice argument.
I feel like there's an 80's martial-arts action flick theme song in there somewhere.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I feel like there's an 80's martial-arts action flick theme song in there somewhere.

If there is, it' says "You have a stupid argument and shouldn't argue on the internet" in it as a hook a thousand times.

[~Rocktar~]

Weren’t you just a bit ago, fighting for LESS government interference? Now you want the government to do more?
Which is it?

While I do what less government interference, since they are already interfering in this area, I would like to see them change the direction of the interfering. And I don't want the current interfering to somehow infer or support more interfering.

[Risen]

I've read that here a couple times, but I've not seen anything since a couple of one off reports in april and June. Has there been a study or something more recently showing the same?

It makes sense to me, I mean if you are older and get some very debilitating disease, I think it's natural that your heart/lungs might fully recovered.


There is still much to learn, but heart damage (scarring), lung damage (scarring) and brain damage (strokes, seizures and temporary paralysis) lead the list. Aside from the obvious slant of "stay in, stay away, stay safe" the most troubling in my view is the brain damage. Heart and lung damage are definite problems, but brain damage is unusual. And all three are occurring in all population groups - we just see the immediate effects in elderly and chronically ill.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

There is still much to learn, but heart damage (scarring), lung damage (scarring) and brain damage (strokes, seizures and temporary paralysis) lead the list. Aside from the obvious slant of "stay in, stay away, stay safe" the most troubling in my view is the brain damage. Heart and lung damage are definite problems, but brain damage is unusual. And all three are occurring in all population groups - we just see the immediate effects in elderly and chronically ill.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

Thanks for the link. I obviously missed a "not" in my sentence, as in "might *NOT* fully recover"

[Solkern]

Oh, it's all or nothing, obviously. Nice argument.

Actually, his argument was all or nothing. So yeah nice argument, makes your comment look pretty silly.

[Archigeek]

There is still much to learn, but heart damage (scarring), lung damage (scarring) and brain damage (strokes, seizures and temporary paralysis) lead the list. Aside from the obvious slant of "stay in, stay away, stay safe" the most troubling in my view is the brain damage. Heart and lung damage are definite problems, but brain damage is unusual. And all three are occurring in all population groups - we just see the immediate effects in elderly and chronically ill.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

There's also more scarring in the elderly because as you age, the way your body fights infection changes, and you become less likely to fight by making antibodand more likely to fight by building scar tissue. It's part of the immune response.

[Archigeek]

Leaving Iowa, current home of highest per capita positive test rate in the world right now. We were in Ames, where 1 in 5 tests are coming up positive. Yikes.

[Gelston]

Leaving Iowa, current home of highest per capita positive test rate in the world right now. We were in Ames, where 1 in 5 tests are coming up positive. Yikes.

California has the highest per capita test rates in the last 7 days though, Iowa is like 10th.


State/Territory Cases in Last 7 Days
California 36,240
Texas 32,817
Florida 20,466
Georgia 15,024
Illinois 13,462
North Carolina 11,014
Alabama 9,243
Tennessee 9,178
Missouri 8,580
Iowa 7,933

[Stolis]

There was an article out a day or two ago saying that some of these tests might be too sensitive. They're detecting particles of COVID, but they're not giving any indication of how much of it you have. Enough to get sick? Just like a droplet or two? Or full blown COVID?

[Archigeek]

California has the highest per capita test rates in the last 7 days though, Iowa is like 10th.


State/Territory Cases in Last 7 Days
California 36,240
Texas 32,817
Florida 20,466
Georgia 15,024
Illinois 13,462
North Carolina 11,014
Alabama 9,243
Tennessee 9,178
Missouri 8,580
Iowa 7,933

I think I wasn't clear. I'm talking about percent of tests that are positive. Iowa's percentage of tests that are positive is about 20% right now.

[Archigeek]

There was an article out a day or two ago saying that some of these tests might be too sensitive. They're detecting particles of COVID, but they're not giving any indication of how much of it you have. Enough to get sick? Just like a droplet or two? Or full blown COVID?

Test results can be misleading. Like the guy in Hong Kong they are now saying is the first to get it twice. According to my epidemiologist brother-in-law, his results actually show that his immune system successfully fought off the disease the second time, not that he got it twice.

[Stolis]

Test results can be misleading. Like the guy in Hong Kong they are now saying is the first to get it twice. According to my epidemiologist brother-in-law, his results actually show that his immune system successfully fought off the disease the second time, not that he got it twice.

They can, I agree. This entire virus has just been a shitshow since day one, because no one seems to have all the correct information.

[Archigeek]

I think I wasn't clear. I'm talking about percent of tests that are positive. Iowa's percentage of tests that are positive is about 20% right now.

I should also add that the ICU is full in Ames Iowa. Scary stuff.

[Neveragain]

Leaving Iowa, current home of highest per capita positive test rate in the world right now. We were in Ames, where 1 in 5 tests are coming up positive. Yikes.

For the most part, most of us in Iowa have a "life has to go on" attitude about it.

It also doesn't help that this time of year is when all the students return. The Iowa State campus is basically a city of it's own when the students are here.

Once all the students have been tested our numbers will dramatically decrease.

[Risen]

Safe travels.

[Solkern]

It also doesn't help that this time of year is when all the students return. The Iowa State campus is basically a city of it's own when the students are here.

That can be said about most major universities in each state.

[~Rocktar~]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/118669864_1231797410504391_4890400821308849029_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GVrb6c0DsgEAX-prak_&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=d94d008ab0aa29a8363d794d3fcc0929&oe=5F72B885

It's down to about 25 to 33% of deaths now but the principle is the same.

[Archigeek]

For the most part, most of us in Iowa have a "life has to go on" attitude about it.

It also doesn't help that this time of year is when all the students return. The Iowa State campus is basically a city of it's own when the students are here.

Once all the students have been tested our numbers will dramatically decrease.

The students are definitely part of it. They're also the reason they closed all the bars in Ames. It's a lot of chaos on campus right now, because of the high positive rate.

[Gelston]

The students are definitely part of it. They're also the reason they closed all the bars in Ames. It's a lot of chaos on campus right now, because of the high positive rate.

Pft, all the bars in Louisiana are closed.

[Candor]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/118669864_1231797410504391_4890400821308849029_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GVrb6c0DsgEAX-prak_&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=d94d008ab0aa29a8363d794d3fcc0929&oe=5F72B885

It's down to about 25 to 33% of deaths now but the principle is the same.

Strange...all those governors are Democrats.

Well I'm sure someone around here will explain how the resulting COV-19 deaths are not in any way the fault of those governors, and somehow all the blame really belongs to Trump. Because...well...Trump.

[Solkern]

Strange...all those governors are Democrats.

Well I'm sure someone around here will explain how the resulting COV-19 deaths are not in any way the fault of those governors, and somehow all the blame really belongs to Trump. Because...well...Trump.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html



those numbers just don't seem to add up.

[FlayedAngel]

If there is, it' says "You have a stupid argument and shouldn't argue on the internet" in it as a hook a thousand times.
I don't think that would be especially catchy, but... I suppose the Internet would disagree.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Pft, all the bars in Louisiana are closed.

Really? Our bars have been open since like June I think. I've been out 6 times now and have avoided Covid.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I should also add that the ICU is full in Ames Iowa. Scary stuff.

There is only one ICU there?

[Tgo01]

Well isn't this interesting:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html


In three sets of testing data that include cycle thresholds, compiled by officials in Massachusetts, New York and Nevada, up to 90 percent of people testing positive carried barely any virus, a review by The Times found.

On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing.

That means it's possible that up to 90% of people who test positive for the virus might not be contagious at all.

[Gelston]

Really? Our bars have been open since like June I think. I've been out 6 times now and have avoided Covid.

They were open for like 2 weeks and then closed back again when cases went up.

[Risen]

Well isn't this interesting:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html



That means it's possible that up to 90% of people who test positive for the virus might not be contagious at all.

It has to do with false positives, not contagion. Specifically to address contact tracing, as your quote calls out.

[~Rocktar~]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html



those numbers just don't seem to add up.

Sorry to shit on your "gotcha" glee here. Never mind, I'm not sorry. I did mention that it was old and based on about 50K dead in nursing homes across the country, well, it does fall somewhere in the range I mentioned.

[Tgo01]

It has to do with false positives, not contagion. Specifically to address contact tracing, as your quote calls out.

It says the reason is because they don't have enough of the virus to be contagious, not because they aren't infected at all.

It's not really a false positive, which would indicate the person isn't infected, it's more like the person is infected but the body is fighting off the infection well enough that the virus can't replicate fast enough to spread to other people.

[Archigeek]

There is only one ICU there?

Yes. I didn't ask how many beds they have. Only one hospital in Ames.

[Neveragain]

The students are definitely part of it. They're also the reason they closed all the bars in Ames. It's a lot of chaos on campus right now, because of the high positive rate.

To be honest, half those bars in campus town should have been shut down for health code violations years ago. Patties is especially fucking disgusting.

[Neveragain]

Yes. I didn't ask how many beds they have. Only one hospital in Ames.

We have Story county hospital too, it's only 10 miles from the hospital in Ames.

[Archigeek]

We have Story county hospital too, it's only 10 miles from the hospital in Ames.

Ah. I was only aware of Mary Greeley. There are quite a few mid-sized cities in Iowa too, so I'm guessing they have some sort of planning in place for helping each other out. Still a concern.

[Risen]

It says the reason is because they don't have enough of the virus to be contagious, not because they aren't infected at all.

It's not really a false positive, which would indicate the person isn't infected, it's more like the person is infected but the body is fighting off the infection well enough that the virus can't replicate fast enough to spread to other people.

Fair correction. Better would be 'has fought off the infection', or 'may be in the early stages of infection before becoming contagious'. Let me amend my statement with a quote from the article.

People infected with the virus are most infectious from a day or two before symptoms appear till about five days after. But at the current testing rates, "you’re not going to be doing it frequently enough to have any chance of really capturing somebody in that window," Dr. Mina added.

Said differently, the question is not about who is not presently contagious that was tested positive. That is a red herring. It is a red herring to say that because of all these positive tests we need to lock down. And it is a red herring to say that because only 90% of these tests are likely to be contagious, we are saved.

The question is how to test when someone is about to become or is contagious. And of course, then how to trace contact. The end number of 'total cases' or 'positive tests' is not likely to change, but our response to how we prevent massive outbreaks certainly should.

[Tgo01]

And it is a red herring to say that because only 90% of these tests are likely to be contagious, we are saved.

10%. And I don't think anyone is suggesting we are "saved" as in we don't have anything to worry about anymore, but it does certainly seem to suggest we don't need these draconian measures anymore, if we ever needed them to begin with.

Honestly I'm thinking all we ever needed was physical distancing. Even masks haven't proven to be effective and it leads people to think wearing a mask is all they needed.

I even saw a video recently of someone asked another person to please step back 6 feet away from them and the person literally says "But I'm wearing a mask."

That's the downside of pushing masks over physical distancing, it leads people to think they can sit shoulder to shoulder in a bus as long as they are wearing a mask.

[Neveragain]

Ah. I was only aware of Mary Greeley. There are quite a few mid-sized cities in Iowa too, so I'm guessing they have some sort of planning in place for helping each other out. Still a concern.

My oldest daughter works in oncology at Mary Greeley.

One of our bigger problems is that we have an aging population in Iowa, so I'm not too surprised that we are finally seeing our numbers inflate.

People are really fucking pissed that the Iowa vs. Iowa State game won't be played this year. They are probably more concerned about the game than they are covid, to be honest.

[Gelston]

My oldest daughter works in oncology at Mary Greeley.

One of our bigger problems is that we have an aging population in Iowa, so I'm not too surprised that we are finally seeing our numbers inflate.

People are really fucking pissed that the Iowa vs. Iowa State game won't be played this year. They are probably more concerned about the game than they are covid, to be honest.

Watched the Gameday that was there last year. Definitely take that serious, even though they have both been largely irrelevant teams for the past few years :D

[Uranti]

It's down to about 25 to 33% of deaths now but the principle is the same.

Those states (NY,PA,NJ,CA,MI) are 25-30% of the U.S population. Your narrative no longer holds.

[Neveragain]

Watched the Gameday that was there last year. Definitely take that serious, even though they have both been largely irrelevant teams for the past few years :D

Iowa State has been terrible forever. Iowa usually goes to a bowl game. It's tough to recruit talent to one of the most boring states in the union.

We're better at producing the smartest graduates in the nation and bacon.

[Parkbandit]

There is still much to learn, but heart damage (scarring), lung damage (scarring) and brain damage (strokes, seizures and temporary paralysis) lead the list. Aside from the obvious slant of "stay in, stay away, stay safe" the most troubling in my view is the brain damage. Heart and lung damage are definite problems, but brain damage is unusual. And all three are occurring in all population groups - we just see the immediate effects in elderly and chronically ill.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

Weren't you also the one that said Covid-19 death rates will be 4-6% when it's all said and done?

[Risen]

Weren't you also the one that said Covid-19 death rates will be 4-6% when it's all said and done?

Would reach, but yes. Glad to see you around, 'dude'. Ready for that beer?

[Parkbandit]

Would reach, but yes. Glad to see you around, 'dude'. Ready for that beer?

Wrong. You said this:


I'm still betting on 4.5% to 6%, when the dust settles.

"When the dust settles" doesn't mean reach. It literally means "when it's all said and done".

You were wrong. Now, you can just admit it and learn from your stupidity.. or you could just double down on it and claim the dust hasn't settled yet..

Up to you.

[~Rocktar~]

Those states (NY,PA,NJ,CA,MI) are 25-30% of the U.S population. Your narrative no longer holds.

200K deaths nation wide, 50K or so in nursing homes in those states. Other states that didn't order nursing homes to take them didn't have any higher rate of infection or death in nursing homes than in the general population. You are proving once again that math is hard and you are pants on head stupid.

[Uranti]

Please cite your sources or we will not be able to have a productive discussion due to my "stupidity" of not being able to see the thoughts inside your skull.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html

The NY Times website says the number of deaths is 24,956 for those 5 states.

New Jersey 6,797
New York 6,616
Penn 5,012
California 4,446
Michigan 2,085
Total 24,956

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Please cite your sources or we will not be able to have a productive discussion due to my "stupidity" of not being able to see the thoughts inside your skull.

Hey now, before you posted the NYtimes link, couldn't he have said the same? Maybe you did, I dunno... was like 40 posts of stupidity between them so I didn't go looking.

[Uranti]

@Funny cat mage: The NY Times link was previously posted but I wasnt arguing that. He posted an old tweet that claimed the 5 states had 50 percent of all covid deaths. He then edited it to say the deaths are down to 25-33% and claimed the point is the same. I pointed out thats the same ratio as the U.S as a whole. Now he's putting out a 50k number I have no clue about.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Some people aren't worth arguing with, IMHO.

[Parkbandit]

Some people aren't worth arguing with, IMHO.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/xT9DPxPZnDcBMX6tAk/giphy.gif

[Risen]

Wrong. You said this:

"When the dust settles" doesn't mean reach. It literally means "when it's all said and done".

You were wrong. Now, you can just admit it and learn from your stupidity.. or you could just double down on it and claim the dust hasn't settled yet..

Up to you.

Ok, you win. I was stupid. I have learned from that stupidity. I am buying. You call it. I will just leave the rest of the conversation right here.


You believe the mortality rate of this virus will be that high? I think you are way way way off. Like by a factor of 100-1000 off



Not believe - bet. And I'd like to be way wrong. Like by a factor of 100 - 1000. Today's tally stands at over 3% globally, or 11% globally depending on how you look at the numbers. My favorite (and should be Tgo01's too, since they ditched the WHO as a source of their data - with reasons) tracker site. Scanning is ok, but reading is better.


https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

[Risen]

Shit. And now I am royally pissed off. I made the 3% comment on 3-20-2020. I have not checked the statistic lately because other bullshit is taking up my time. But I check it today and find

Global cases: 26,031,651
Global deaths: 863,566
Deaths / Cases: 3.32%

US cases: 6,269,800
US deaths: 189,251
Deaths / Cases: 3.02%

Why is this shit not 3/10s of a percent? Or even better, 3/100s of a percent?! Fuck!

[Methais]

Hey guys did we flatten the curve yet?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Shit. And now I am royally pissed off. I made the 3% comment on 3-20-2020. I have not checked the statistic lately because other bullshit is taking up my time. But I check it today and find

Global cases: 26,031,651
Global deaths: 863,566
Deaths / Cases: 3.32%

US cases: 6,269,800
US deaths: 189,251
Deaths / Cases: 3.02%

Why is this shit not 3/10s of a percent? Or even better, 3/100s of a percent?! Fuck!

Are you saying on Average the US is better than the rest of the world? That's what it looks like to me.

[Risen]

Are you saying on Average the US is better than the rest of the world? That's what it looks like to me.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/ZC0ATzzJnKqn2SNDHR/giphy.gif

[~Rocktar~]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118580940_2834890476797694_7372355981154725675_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=s1Rabzr4ZWYAX9e6a-h&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=3a6d0dac1c6d4cdcbfe8c08ee9934329&oe=5F759524

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Dude. WTF is R "on her deathbed" GB doing in fucking public. That is GODDAMN RICH.

No mask? WTMF?

[Tgo01]

Dude. WTF is R "on her deathbed" GB doing in fucking public. That is GODDAMN RICH.

No mask? WTMF?

Just like BLM and Antifa riots it seems Democrats are immune to the virus. Except when it comes to voting, then they are the most vulnerable population to have ever lived and thus we need mail in voting.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Ok, just so you know. It's not Antifa. It is Pantyfa. Get it straight.

[Tgo01]

Ok, just so you know. It's not Antifa. It is Pantyfa. Get it straight.

My bad.

[Parkbandit]

Dude. WTF is R "on her deathbed" GB doing in fucking public. That is GODDAMN RICH.

No mask? WTMF?

Plus, she's like in the super high risk category, given her cancer and age.

[Tgo01]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118580940_2834890476797694_7372355981154725675_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=s1Rabzr4ZWYAX9e6a-h&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=3a6d0dac1c6d4cdcbfe8c08ee9934329&oe=5F759524

Pelosi is now demanding an apology from the salon for "setting her up."

The left is unbelievable.

[Parkbandit]

Pelosi is now demanding an apology from the salon for "setting her up."

The left is unbelievable.

This is right in line with "Someone hacked my phone" when "Carlos Danger" aka Anthony "See My" Weiner was caught sending nudes of himself to girls who were not his wife.

[~Rocktar~]

More evidence that we have been played.


Early treatment with hydroxychloroquine: a country-based analysis

https://hcqtrial.com/plot/plot1ax.svg

https://hcqtrial.com

[Alfster]

Scream fake news. Fall for fake news. Rocktard, way to go!

https://www.newsguardtech.com/coronavirus-misinformation-tracking-center/

[~Rocktar~]

Scream fake news. Fall for fake news. Rocktard, way to go!

https://www.newsguardtech.com/coronavirus-misinformation-tracking-center/

Go look up the death rates yourself for each country.

[Parkbandit]

Pelosi is now demanding an apology from the salon for "setting her up."

The left is unbelievable.

Hey now, she took total responsibility for her actions....

She took responsibility for getting set up by the hair salon. She thought there would only be 1 customer in the salon and that is allowed per the San Francisco Covid-19 rules.

Oh wait.. no it wasn't..........................

Elitist cunt thinking the rules are meant for the peons and not for someone as important as she is.