Wuhan Virus

[Keller]

Watching these bottom feeding reporters give Trump so much shit for being hopeful that a drug might treat patients is downright fucking disgusting.

"You're not a doctor! Why do you keep talking about?!"
"Why don't you just let the science speak for itself?!?!"
"You keep pushing it!"

All I have ever seen Trump say is he is hopeful it will work and he wants the people who are very sick from the Wuhan Virus and might not live be able to at least give it a try to see if it will help.

That is literally it. But the media is so disgusting these days that they have been doing everything in their power to try and turn people away from taking a potentially life saving treatment simply because Trump says he is hopeful about it.

Think about that. The media would rather see people die than to admit that Trump was right. They would rather see people die and continue to suffer from this shutdown then possibly ending the crisis early because they want to inflict maximum damage against Trump and his reelection chances at all costs.

The media should just be outlawed already. They aren't the slightest bit helpful or informative anymore.

Another reporter asked why not shut EVERYTHING down, including grocery stores and restaurants. Uh...because people have to eat?

"I don't get it, Mr. President, why not just let people starve to death in order to save them from a virus?"

The problem with doctors is they are trained scientists who rely on data and not hope.

If only there were a trained scientist, maybe even one with a background in virology, that was available at these press conferences to answer questions about clinical treatments....

[Tgo01]

The problem with doctors is they are trained scientists who rely on data and not hope.

If only there were a trained scientist, maybe even one with a background in virology, that was available at these press conferences to answer questions about clinical treatments....

Yeah if only Dr. Fauci has said time and time again that some trials have shown promise but since a clinical study (that takes months-years to complete) hasn't been done yet he can only call it anecdotal at best. If only Dr. Fauci had said it's good to have this option for patients who want to go that route.

Oh wait! He's said both of those things but the media is chomping at the bit to ask him endlessly until he says one little thing they can twist and take out of context to make it look like he's disagreeing with Trump because the media doesn't give a single shit about Americans, they only care about pushing their narrative.

[~Rocktar~]

Know what else was happening January 20? Dems devoting everything to dithering with a useless failed impeachment because they’re butthurt twatwaffles like you. All the way until February 5.

Why are you being more retarded than Backlash?

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZsXGPHnHmQYCY/giphy.gif

Stop challenging him man, it's like putting a red cloth in front of a bull or cash in someone else's pocket in front of Bernie Sanders. He just can't help himself. Question is, for him is it "Hold my beer", "Hold my Zima" or maybe "Hold my Zinfindel"?

[Tgo01]

A few days ago the IHME model, which is the model the White House task force and most experts have been relying on, projected 93,000 US deaths from the Wuhan Virus.

The model has now been updated and projects 82k deaths.

The model also projected a peak of 263k hospital beds would be needed, 39k ICU beds, and 32k ventilators.

It now projects 140k hospital beds, 29k ICU beds, and 25k ventilators.

Remember when piece of shit Cuomo was receiving so much praise for demanding Trump ignore all other states in order to ship his state 40k ventilators because they would need that much? Remember how people lost their minds when Trump said he and his team didn't think NY needed that many ventilators?

Looks like the ENTIRE US won't even need 40k ventilators, much less just NY state. I wonder if the people who gave Trump shit for saying NY didn't need that many ventilators are now going to apologize to Trump and admit he was right.

[Tgo01]

Now the Democratic governor of Louisiana is strongly implying that Trump is to blame for the outbreak in Louisiana because no "political figure" told him he should have canceled Mardi Gras.

So now we have the Democratic mayor of New Orleans who flat out blamed Trump for her not canceling Mardi Gras and the Democratic governor strongly implying it's Trump's fault.

If I didn't know any better I would say all of these Democrats who failed at their jobs just want to blame this all on Trump and the media is all too happy to lick their assholes and let them.

[Methais]

Stop challenging him man, it's like putting a red cloth in front of a bull or cash in someone else's pocket in front of Bernie Sanders. He just can't help himself. Question is, for him is it "Hold my beer", "Hold my Zima" or maybe "Hold my Zinfindel"?

In Seran's case, it's "Hold my virgin wine cooler, mom."

[Neveragain]

Watching the media and Democrats literally hope that hydroxychloroquine doesn't help is awesome.

[Seran]

A few days ago the IHME model, which is the model the White House task force and most experts have been relying on, projected 93,000 US deaths from the Wuhan Virus.

The model has now been updated and projects 82k deaths.

The model also projected a peak of 263k hospital beds would be needed, 39k ICU beds, and 32k ventilators.

It now projects 140k hospital beds, 29k ICU beds, and 25k ventilators.

Remember when piece of shit Cuomo was receiving so much praise for demanding Trump ignore all other states in order to ship his state 40k ventilators because they would need that much? Remember how people lost their minds when Trump said he and his team didn't think NY needed that many ventilators?

Looks like the ENTIRE US won't even need 40k ventilators, much less just NY state. I wonder if the people who gave Trump shit for saying NY didn't need that many ventilators are now going to apologize to Trump and admit he was right.

I enjoy your misguided claims. The IHME model reports a variance of +100%/-22%. Statistically, you've got to ge asking yourself, if you were intelligent, why a statistician seeing a 78% difference in it's mean results, would estimate a figure so low within that curve. Dreaven is crowing coup when the website's own author says,


Uncertainty is the range of values that is likely to include the correct projected estimate for a given data category. Larger uncertainty intervals can result from limited data availability, small studies, and conflicting data, while smaller uncertainty intervals can result from extensive data availability, large studies, and data that are consistent across sources.

The model presented in this tool has a 95% uncertainty interval and is represented by the shaded area(s) on each chart.

[Tgo01]

I enjoy your misguided claims. The IHME model reports a variance of +100%/-22%. Statistically, you've got to ge asking yourself, if you were intelligent, why a statistician seeing a 78% difference in it's mean results, would estimate a figure so low within that curve. Dreaven is crowing coup when the website's own author says,

I really don't understand what your problem with my comment is.

Do you not think we should be paying attention to the IHME model? Do you think we should only pay attention to the IHME model when it's predicting catastrophe but when when it predicts fewer deaths we should ignore it? Do you think I'm somehow misrepresenting their figures?

Talk to me, Seran. Use your words like big boy.

[Seran]

I really don't understand what your problem with my comment is.

Do you not think we should be paying attention to the IHME model? Do you think we should only pay attention to the IHME model when it's predicting catastrophe but when when it predicts fewer deaths we should ignore it? Do you think I'm somehow misrepresenting their figures?

Talk to me, Seran. Use your words like big boy.

Every study, even the IHME model which has limited sampling data should be considered. Does it matter that the CDC, WHO and the London Imperial College have vastly differing estimates, yes that is also pretty damn relevant.

What's embarrassing is that you've latched on one model, used it's almost best case scenario result and in completely overlooking the model estimates actual needs could be double it's prediction, claim it's irrefutable evidence that Governor's requesting additional resources are idiots. Your ignorance in ignoring the statistical spread of your own sourced data is astounding. That you've used it to make blatantly incorrect assertions about requests made from experienced government officials is less surprising, but also disappointing.

[Tgo01]

What's embarrassing is that you've latched on one model

Spare me the bullshit. The IHME model is what everyone is fawning over.


used it's almost best case scenario result

Spare me the bullshit x2. The IHME model's best case scenario shows 49k deaths. I'm using the figure THEY gave, not one I just pulled outta my ass.

http://www.healthdata.org/covid/updates


Cumulative deaths through first wave


Predictions from April 5th: 81,766 (49,431 to 136,401)


Predictions from April 2nd: 93,531 (39,966 to 177,866)

You're such a useful idiot for the Democratic party.

Seran and Democrats: Listen to the experts!!!!111111
Also Seran and Democrats: No not that expert!!!111111 Unless they start saying shit is getting worse and we can then blame it on Trump!!!!1111

[Seran]

This is why you're not taken seriously. "Everyone fawning over" a graph isn't an excuse for cherry picking data and failing to understand what you're reading. You can cheerlead all you want, just acknowledge it's from a place of ignorance.

[Risen]

Troubling news:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china/china-sees-rise-in-asymptomatic-coronavirus-cases-to-tighten-controls-at-land-borders-idUSKBN21O01M

[Neveragain]

Democrat Gov. Andrew Cuomo: asking federal government to increase hydroxychloroquine supply because there is some evidence that it appears to be working


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JFThng_2bs&feature=youtu.be

https://media1.tenor.com/images/4d10a6e8eda7f9bf4a7cedf608eafd68/tenor.gif?itemid=9673936

[Methais]

CBS not even trying to vet this :lol:
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1246804028601896961

Turns out she's just some Instagram thot who hasn't been a nurse in over a year...
https://twitter.com/IVIich4eL/status/1247229520077258753

But Orange Man Bad.

[Keller]

What was the second tweet, Methais? Seems to have been removed.

Why are people bickering so relentlessly over the estimates of deaths from various models? We're literally living through a pandemic and y'all are trying to argue which model based on various assumptions of a literally on-going pandemic is more correct.

You guys have no chill.

[Stolis]

What was the second tweet, Methais? Seems to have been removed.

Why are people bickering so relentlessly over the estimates of deaths from various models? We're literally living through a pandemic and y'all are trying to argue which model based on various assumptions of a literally on-going pandemic is more correct.

You guys have no chill.

"She said in the video that she was assigned to a #COVID19 COVID patient.
Well, she quit that job over a YEAR ago !
You been played by the fake, bipolar nurse"

That was the tweet. Basically the nurse is full of shit and an attention whore.

[Seran]

Troubling news:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china/china-sees-rise-in-asymptomatic-coronavirus-cases-to-tighten-controls-at-land-borders-idUSKBN21O01M

I'd believe China's reporting if that was 39,000 new infections the day before

[Parkbandit]

"She said in the video that she was assigned to a #COVID19 COVID patient.
Well, she quit that job over a YEAR ago !
You been played by the fake, bipolar nurse"

That was the tweet. Basically the nurse is full of shit and an attention whore.

And don't forget dumb as hell...

[Risen]

I'd believe China's reporting if that was 39,000 new infections the day before

The reason it is troubling is because it was caught. We thought it might exist and now we know it does. Why is that troubling? Because the US is testing based on symptoms. There are carriers out there who may not display signs of the illness (asymptomatic), but can still infect others.

China may well be unreliable about reporting believable numbers, but making up shit like this? We'll soon know, if we start testing outside of just symptoms.

[Fortybox]

What was the second tweet, Methais? Seems to have been removed.

Why are people bickering so relentlessly over the estimates of deaths from various models? We're literally living through a fake pandemic and y'all are trying to argue which model based on various assumptions of a literally on-going fake pandemic is more correct.

You guys have no chill.

FTFY

[Keller]

FTFY

You believe the novel coronavirus, aka COVID-19, is fake?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're trying to fix from my post.

[Tgo01]

You believe the novel coronavirus, aka COVID-19, is fake?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're trying to fix from my post.

He said the pandemic is fake, not the virus. Stop with the fake news already.

[Fortybox]

He said the pandemic is fake, not the virus. Stop with the fake news already.

The data doesn't support the level of absolute freak out we've had as a result of this.

[Fortybox]

You believe the novel coronavirus, aka COVID-19, is fake?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're trying to fix from my post.

...

You're pretty dense.

[Keller]

...

You're pretty dense.

At least I know the definition of pandemic.

[Tgo01]

A bit of good news. For April 5th the number of new daily cases in the US dropped by 8,880 (about 25%), going from 34,196 new daily cases to 25,316.

The number of new daily deaths also dropped by 165, going from 1330 to 1165.

It's a bit too early to get excited because this could just be an outlier, but it's the first bit of good news we have had in a while.

Most states either had a drop in the number of new cases or it stayed about the same.

Louisiana looks especially good, going from 2199 new cases on April 4th to 514 on April 5th.

NY and NJ continue to be massively over represented in the number of new cases and new deaths, accounting for 46% of new cases and 57% of new deaths.

The number of new daily cases went back up again for April 6th, going from 25,316 on the 5th to 30,331, but that's still down from the 4th so that's good news.

The number of new daily news on April 6th was 1,255, slightly up from the 5th (1165) but still down from the 4th (133). Still a good trend.

NY and NJ of course still are are way over represented, accounting for 42% of the new cases and 55% of the new deaths.

Maybe it's time we just sealed off NY and NJ from the rest of the world and let the rest of us get on with our lives. It's pretty clear the city and state leaders of NY have failed.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Anyone who understands mathematics understands that the instances of infection are going to go up. So are the deaths. So is the impact to the economics of the United States. If you disagree with this, you are retarded and don't understand there are 350M people in America, and this shit is going to spread. Stay at home, try to stop the spread.

[Keller]

Anyone who understands mathematics

Know your audience.

Who is going to pay attention after reading that?

[Tgo01]

Anyone who understands mathematics understands that the instances of infection are going to go up. So are the deaths. So is the impact to the economics of the United States. If you disagree with this, you are retarded and don't understand there are 350M people in America, and this shit is going to spread. Stay at home, try to stop the spread.

I've practically been locked up in my house for 3.5 weeks while the mayor of NY city was telling people to go out and live their lives like normal and dine in at restaurants because everything was fine.

I think I've earned the right to bitch about the failure of NY. This shit would have been over with a week ago if people had just followed the guidelines from day 1.

[Archigeek]

I've practically been locked up in my house for 3.5 weeks while the mayor of NY city was telling people to go out and live their lives like normal and dine in at restaurants because everything was fine.

I think I've earned the right to bitch about the failure of NY. This shit would have been over with a week ago if people had just followed the guidelines from day 1.

I'm pretty sure you'd be bitching just as much if there were no cases in the US. So let's not kid ourselves and pretend that's some sort of earned right.

[Tgo01]

I'm pretty sure you'd be bitching just as much if there were no cases in the US. So let's not kid ourselves and pretend that's some sort of earned right.

Why would I be bitching if there were no cases in the US? I think things would be pretty normal in the US if that were the case.

I understand you don't like me repeating the fact that Democrats in NY from the state level all the way to the city level failed their state and country, but at least try to make sense.

[Fortybox]

At least I know the definition of pandemic.

Everytime you post here it's a pandemic...but we don't crash the economy over it.

[Fortybox]

The number of new daily cases went back up again for April 6th, going from 25,316 on the 5th to 30,331, but that's still down from the 4th so that's good news.

The number of new daily news on April 6th was 1,255, slightly up from the 5th (1165) but still down from the 4th (133). Still a good trend.

NY and NJ of course still are are way over represented, accounting for 42% of the new cases and 55% of the new deaths.

Maybe it's time we just sealed off NY and NJ from the rest of the world and let the rest of us get on with our lives. It's pretty clear the city and state leaders of NY have failed.

NY and NJ failed. Washington was early in the curve and look what happened.

[Fortybox]

Anyone who understands mathematics understands that the instances of infection are going to go up. So are the deaths. So is the impact to the economics of the United States. If you disagree with this, you are retarded and don't understand there are 350M people in America, and this shit is going to spread. Stay at home, try to stop the spread.

When this is all said and done it will have been barely above the flu. More people are going to die from the economic fallout than the actual virus.

[Tgo01]

NY and NJ failed. Washington was early in the curve and look what happened.

Yup. People like Archigeek and Seran think I'm making this political because the entire leadership in NYC and NY state are all Democrats. No, it's because the entire leadership failed that city and that state.

California, probably the most blue state in the country, has done an excellent job considering their population size and their number of homeless and drug users.

Oregon, another blue state, has done a really good job.

Washington State, perhaps even more blue than California, has done an especially good job considering they were the first outbreak in the country, and now look at them, doing a better job than a lot of states.

These states took it seriously from the beginning, even though they could have gone the route of NY and downplayed it in an attempt to frame Trump as racist.

But the Democrats in NY just couldn't help but play political games during a national crisis. Anything to own Trump!

[RichardCranium]

Know your audience.

Who is going to pay attention after reading that?

Pay attention to what?

[Fortybox]

Anyone who understands mathematics understands that the instances of infection are going to go up. So are the deaths. So is the impact to the economics of the United States. If you disagree with this, you are retarded and don't understand there are 350M people in America, and this shit is going to spread. Stay at home, try to stop the spread.

Um...there is very high probability that a huge percentage of the population already have this virus. It spreads very easily and a large part of the population have no symptoms.

[Seran]

Yup. People like Archigeek and Seran think I'm making this political because the entire leadership in NYC and NY state are all Democrats. No, it's because the entire leadership failed that city and that state.

So, Trump gets a pass for not acting sooner because China mislead the World Health Organization, for waiting until the middle of March to even recommend social distancing. Meanwhile, de Blasio gets blasted for encouraging non-sick people to continue going about their own lives before the President of the United States even considered social distancing? Come on, seriously?

The President with the entire resources of the nation's private and government healthcare agencies, intelligence agencies and military health organizations gets a pass for not listening to all the data fed to him, to his advisors and cabinet secretaries. Meanwhile a governor, albeit of the fourth most populous state, having only his statewide health department is crucified by Dreaven and his conservative hatchet factory. Such a stunningly massive double standard.

[Tgo01]

So, Trump gets a pass for not acting sooner

Speaking of partisan hacks, let me introduce you to Seran, the guy who thinks Trump should have shut down the entire country back in December.

[Seran]

Speaking of partisan hacks, let me introduce you to Seran, the guy who thinks Trump should have shut down the entire country back in December.

Deflection at it's finest. Way to move passed that disturbing hypocrisy.

[Keller]

Pay attention to what?

Squirrel!

[Keller]

Deflection at it's finest. Way to move passed that disturbing hypocrisy.

tgo is not posting in good faith.

the sooner you stop taking him seriously the better.

[Tgo01]

tgo is not posting in good faith.

the sooner you stop taking him seriously the better.

I'm just surprised you haven't started dancing because people in Louisiana are dying.

You and Seran do make a cute couple though. A couple of psychopaths made for one another.

[Methais]

Know your audience.

Who is going to pay attention after reading that?

I know right? It's not like this is a forum for a text based RPG that has numbers and math and complex formulas flying around all over the place that people have to understand at at least a basic level in order to make sense of how things work, while consisting of an overall nerdy player base.

[Methais]

I've practically been locked up in my house for 3.5 weeks while the mayor of NY city was telling people to go out and live their lives like normal and dine in at restaurants because everything was fine.

I think I've earned the right to bitch about the failure of NY. This shit would have been over with a week ago if people had just followed the guidelines from day 1.

When people refuse to social distance:
https://46.media.tumblr.com/df2620f269c5d41820621cf3235da5ec/tumblr_pk272yGR3C1xxwex3o6_r4_400.gif

[Methais]

So, Trump gets a pass for not acting sooner because China mislead the World Health Organization, for waiting until the middle of March to even recommend social distancing. Meanwhile, de Blasio gets blasted for encouraging non-sick people to continue going about their own lives before the President of the United States even considered social distancing? Come on, seriously?

The President with the entire resources of the nation's private and government healthcare agencies, intelligence agencies and military health organizations gets a pass for not listening to all the data fed to him, to his advisors and cabinet secretaries. Meanwhile a governor, albeit of the fourth most populous state, having only his statewide health department is crucified by Dreaven and his conservative hatchet factory. Such a stunningly massive double standard.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/wF49tiT5p78qs/source.gif

[Tgo01]

Just need a couple of more good days like yesterday and so far today and this will once again be Obama's stock market.

[Wrathbringer]

I'm just surprised you haven't started dancing because people in Louisiana are dying.

You and Seran do make a cute couple though. A couple of massive tards made for one another.

Fixed.

[Wrathbringer]

Deflection at it's finest. Way to move passed that disturbing hypocrisy.

Past. Not passed. Retard.

[Wrathbringer]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/wF49tiT5p78qs/source.gif

This is correct.

[Methais]

CDC Tells Hospitals To List COVID as Cause of Death Even if You're Just Assuming or It Only Contributed (https://www.westernjournal.com/cdc-tells-hospitals-list-covid-cause-death-even-just-assuming-contributed)

https://media1.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/source.gif

[Alfster]

Sounds like that's in response to NY saying all of their in home deaths are no longer being checked for the virus after death but before a test could be performed. Save the tests for the living basically.

[Fortybox]

CDC Tells Hospitals To List COVID as Cause of Death Even if You're Just Assuming or It Only Contributed (https://www.westernjournal.com/cdc-tells-hospitals-list-covid-cause-death-even-just-assuming-contributed)

https://media1.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/source.gif

Nobody is disputing whether or not the virus exists but it's crap like this that shows, and is becoming more clear, that the numbers related to this absolutely do not add up. When this is all said and done this virus will barely be above the flu and we will look back and realize the freak out associated with it was not warranted.

[Seran]

Sounds like that's in response to NY saying all of their in home deaths are no longer being checked for the virus after death but before a test could be performed. Save the tests for the living basically.

The CDC Guidelines cited in the op-ed, but not posted actually go into further detail about testing and doctors using their best medical judgment. Death Certificates usually list immediate cause and contributing causes of death. Yes things like Diabetes, COPD, Emphysema and Bronchitis are major contributing factors to mortality in SARS cases, but the CDC is asking doctors to certify COVID-19 as the immediate cause of death, if their medical opinion concurs. The ICD update also states if tests are pending, to update their diagnosis and causes of death as appropriate. I really don't see anything wrong here.

[Methais]

The CDC Guidelines cited in the op-ed, but not posted actually go into further detail about testing and doctors using their best medical judgment. Death Certificates usually list immediate cause and contributing causes of death. Yes things like Diabetes, COPD, Emphysema and Bronchitis are major contributing factors to mortality in SARS cases, but the CDC is asking doctors to certify COVID-19 as the immediate cause of death, if their medical opinion concurs. The ICD update also states if tests are pending, to update their diagnosis and causes of death as appropriate. I really don't see anything wrong here.

It was linked in the article dipshit.

https://i.imgur.com/SkDWaQd.png

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf

[Seran]

It was linked in the article dipshit.

https://i.imgur.com/SkDWaQd.png

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf

No, fuck-nugget, it wasn't. The referenced Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019 was ommited by the op-ed author.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/covid-19.htm

(PDF) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

[Neveragain]

The CDC Guidelines cited in the op-ed, but not posted actually go into further detail about testing and doctors using their best medical judgment. Death Certificates usually list immediate cause and contributing causes of death. Yes things like Diabetes, COPD, Emphysema and Bronchitis are major contributing factors to mortality in SARS cases, but the CDC is asking doctors to certify COVID-19 as the immediate cause of death, if their medical opinion concurs. The ICD update also states if tests are pending, to update their diagnosis and causes of death as appropriate. I really don't see anything wrong here.

Is being retarded considered immediate cause of death or contributing cause of death?

[Methais]

No, fuck-nugget, it wasn't. The referenced Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019 was ommited by the op-ed author.


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/covid-19.htm

(PDF) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

I'm talking about this. Try to keep up:

https://i.imgur.com/T8rI7DH.png (https://www.westernjournal.com/cdc-tells-hospitals-list-covid-cause-death-even-just-assuming-contributed/)

Which takes you to this https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf

And who the fuck still says fuck nugget?

[Stolis]

Hm. Seems DeBlasio may have made a bit of an error here...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-york-stockpiled-ventilators-for-pandemic-only-to-later-auction-them-off-report

[Seran]

I'm talking about this. Try to keep up:

https://i.imgur.com/T8rI7DH.png (https://www.westernjournal.com/cdc-tells-hospitals-list-covid-cause-death-even-just-assuming-contributed/)

Which takes you to this https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf

And who the fuck still says fuck nugget?

And if you actually read your own link, the document both cite "(See attached Guidance for Certifying COVID-19 Deaths)" which wasn't included in the authors article, which provides additional guidance and justification that the writer was apparently trying to sensationalize.

Also, I say fuck nugget, it's fantastic.

[Seran]

Hm. Seems DeBlasio may have made a bit of an error here...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-york-stockpiled-ventilators-for-pandemic-only-to-later-auction-them-off-report

In.. 2016, more than three years ago. The editor surprisingly doesn't omit the truly relevant part of the report.


Those ventilators were then auctioned off some time before 2016 because the city could not afford to maintain them in working order, partially because the model of ventilator the city had purchased was no longer in production after 2009, the report said.

[Stolis]

In.. 2016, more than three years ago. The editor surprisingly doesn't omit the truly relevant part of the report.

So hear me out. You had them, you could have been replacing the oldest ones with newer ones every year and making sure there was a supply of sorts... But nah, let's just let them go to waste. I mean shit, you auctioned them off... What did you do with the proceeds? Clearly not buy more. That's the whole point. Replace 10% of them each year, just go through the cycle.

[Seran]

So hear me out. You had them, you could have been replacing the oldest ones with newer ones every year and making sure there was a supply of sorts... But nah, let's just let them go to waste. I mean shit, you auctioned them off... What did you do with the proceeds? Clearly not buy more. That's the whole point. Replace 10% of them each year, just go through the cycle.

Certainly wasn't the best call not to do exactly that. Hindsight being what it is, every state and the Feds would have been stocking up on meds/equipment relevant to SARS. If you take a look at the published reports by the director of the national stockpile, you'll see their focus has been on antivirals, rather than PPE and medical equipment.

[Stolis]

Certainly wasn't the best call not to do exactly that. Hindsight being what it is, every state and the Feds would have been stocking up on meds/equipment relevant to SARS. If you take a look at the published reports by the director of the national stockpile, you'll see their focus has been on antivirals, rather than PPE and medical equipment.

So you're okay with hindsight being what it is in this situation, because it wasn't the intent to let them go to waste per say, but to focus on alternative solutions based on what the director's people are telling him..

But when the President is changing his tune based on what his team is focusing on and informing him, it's not the same thing? Can it not just be both people are listening to the information they're given, and those people are just giving what in hindsight may not have been the best advice?

[Neveragain]

Certainly wasn't the best call not to do exactly that. Hindsight being what it is, every state and the Feds would have been stocking up on meds/equipment relevant to SARS. If you take a look at the published reports by the director of the national stockpile, you'll see their focus has been on antivirals, rather than PPE and medical equipment.

More production means more natural resources. Sadly Democrats do everything in their power to prevent us from tapping into those natural resources.

[Parkbandit]

So you're okay with hindsight being what it is in this situation, because it wasn't the intent to let them go to waste per say, but to focus on alternative solutions based on what the director's people are telling him..

But when the President is changing his tune based on what his team is focusing on and informing him, it's not the same thing? Can it not just be both people are listening to the information they're given, and those people are just giving what in hindsight may not have been the best advice?

Seran lives by the age old Democrat #1 Rule: If a Republican does it.. it's bad. If a Democrat does it.. it's fine.

[Seran]

So you're okay with hindsight being what it is in this situation, because it wasn't the intent to let them go to waste per say, but to focus on alternative solutions based on what the director's people are telling him..

But when the President is changing his tune based on what his team is focusing on and informing him, it's not the same thing? Can it not just be both people are listening to the information they're given, and those people are just giving what in hindsight may not have been the best advice?

That's a whole shitload of assumptions you've jumped to there. I think their rationality for selling stockpiled ventilators was sound, but agreed it was a mistake, knowing what we do now, that they weren't maintained. I don't blame De Blasio, or Bloomberg for failing to maintain their stockpile. Knowing what we do now it was a mistake.

My citation of the National Stockpile is that whomever is in charge makes decisions on what to purchase, maintain or to destroy as waste. It's not anyone's fault that on a national level we were preparing virus specific treatment's that aren't applicable to the coronavirus. The president has nothing to do with that day to day operation, be it Bush, Obama or Trump in office.

[Seran]

More production means more natural resources. Sadly Democrats do everything in their power to prevent us from tapping into those natural resources.

How would harvesting more coal and oil would have made us more prepared for the coronavirus?

[~Rocktar~]

How would harvesting more coal and oil would have made us more prepared for the coronavirus?

If it was used to make more ventilators that NYC was supposed to be stockpiling instead of spending the proceeds of auctioning them off in addition to nearly a billion dollars on De Blasio's wife's diversity boondoggle. Are you willfully this dense or does being functionally retarded come naturally?

[Neveragain]

How would harvesting more coal and oil would have made us more prepared for the coronavirus?

Democrats are going to have to give in on this stance or we are never going to be able to do the things Democrats want to do.

You want high speed rail? We need to open our mining industry to do it.

Want to provide cheap housing for the poor and the homeless? We are going to have to cut down some trees to do it.

To make stuff, you need natural resources.

[Stolis]

That's a whole shitload of assumptions you've jumped to there. I think their rationality for selling stockpiled ventilators was sound, but agreed it was a mistake, knowing what we do now, that they weren't maintained. I don't blame De Blasio, or Bloomberg for failing to maintain their stockpile. Knowing what we do now it was a mistake.

My citation of the National Stockpile is that whomever is in charge makes decisions on what to purchase, maintain or to destroy as waste. It's not anyone's fault that on a national level we were preparing virus specific treatment's that aren't applicable to the coronavirus. The president has nothing to do with that day to day operation, be it Bush, Obama or Trump in office.

Wasn't really assumptions. But when the President says wait, you had 30,000 of them and everyone says oh he's a liar this and that... Well, he wasn't wrong. They had 30k of them. They sold them, and never thought to replace them. What did DeBlasio think they were there for, shits and giggles?

[Seran]

Wasn't really assumptions. But when the President says wait, you had 30,000 of them and everyone says oh he's a liar this and that... Well, he wasn't wrong. They had 30k of them. They sold them, and never thought to replace them. What did DeBlasio think they were there for, shits and giggles?

30,000? The article and report only cite 500 ventilators bought and later auctioned. Where are pulling your figure from.

[Seran]

Democrats are going to have to give in on this stance or we are never going to be able to do the things Democrats want to do.

You want high speed rail? We need to open our mining industry to do it.

Want to provide cheap housing for the poor and the homeless? We are going to have to cut down some trees to do it.

To make stuff, you need natural resources.

Resources such as timber and steel are produced and purchased much more cheaply abroad, than domestically. Hell, look at the trade data for wood, our softwood imports for say, house framing, are ten times what our exports are. That has nothing to do with availability of the resource, it's because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to import

[Tgo01]

Certainly wasn't the best call not to do exactly that. Hindsight being what it is

Look at this fuck nugget right here.

"From what we know now, Trump should have closed the country in December!!!!!!111 He has blood on his hands!!!!11"
"Well to be fair, de Blasio didn't know this was going to happen, hindsight and all that."

[Stolis]

30,000? The article and report only cite 500 ventilators bought and later auctioned. Where are pulling your figure from.

Yeah my bad, I was thinking one number while typing the other. Joys of multitasking.

[Seran]

Yeah my bad, I was thinking one number while typing the other. Joys of multitasking.

If de Blasio had auctioned off 30,000 ventilators, I'd have started the petition to recall myself. 500 is still pretty unfortunate considering Cuomo's request for allocation.

[Tgo01]

Another bad day.

On April 7th the number of new daily infections increased by 3,000 from 30,331 on April 6th to 33,331 on April 7th. NY accounted for 1,570 (53%) of this increase.

New daily deaths increased by 715, going from 1,255 to 1970. NY accounted for 132 (19%) of this increase.

NY and NJ accounted for 42% of all new infections for April 7th and 49% of all new deaths.

[Fortybox]

New projections are showing that this fake "pandemic" may even be below the flu.

[Tgo01]

New projections are showing that this fake "pandemic" may even be below the flu.

That's gonna be a tough pill for Democrats to swallow.

Do they:
A) Listen to the experts (because remember Democrats are always about listening to the experts) who suggested 2+ million people would have died if Trump didn't act, meaning Trump saved 2+ million lives.
B) Ignore the experts and say Trump didn't save anyone at all, but then they would have to admit that Democrats and the media hyped this up so bad that it forced a nationwide shutdown that cost the country trillions of dollars and millions of jobs for no reason at all.

But since Democrats have no shame at all anymore they will just go with:

C) Orange Man Bad!

[Seran]

New projections are showing that this fake "pandemic" may even be below the flu.


That's gonna be a tough pill for Democrats to swallow.

Do they:
A) Listen to the experts (because remember Democrats are always about listening to the experts) who suggested 2+ million people would have died if Trump didn't act, meaning Trump saved 2+ million lives.
B) Ignore the experts and say Trump didn't save anyone at all, but then they would have to admit that Democrats and the media hyped this up so bad that it forced a nationwide shutdown that cost the country trillions of dollars and millions of jobs for no reason at all.

But since Democrats have no shame at all anymore they will just go with:

C) Orange Man Bad!

Orange Man Bad.

[Risen]

New projections are showing that this fake "pandemic" may even be below the flu.

Source of these 'projections'?

[Fortybox]

Source of these 'projections'?

Have you not been paying attention to the news cycles today? The models over projected and were adjusted down. By the time we get a true sense of what this denominator is it may well be below the flu.

#fakepandemic

[Seran]

Source of these 'projections'?

Made up. I'm pretty sure Fortybox is Sean Hannity

[Tgo01]

The reporters at today's press conference are something else.

The WHO misled the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD about the severity of this virus because they were too busy pushing Chinese propaganda.
Trump says he's going to look into cutting funding, he didn't say he's going to cut funding NOW, or that he's even 100% for sure going to cut, just that he's looking into it.
Reporters: OMG!!!! Is it wise to cut funding to the WHO during a pandemic?!??!

Why the fuck not? They ain't doing shit. They let this problem get worse. They spend over HALF OF THEIR FUCKING BUDGET on travel expenses.

But it's the World HEALTH Organization! So clearly that means they need that money! In fact they need more American tax dollars so they can be even bigger Chinese propagandists and spend even more money on travel!!

I really don't see the problem here. Rather than bitching about Trump cutting funding because the current state of the WHO is useless, why not investigate the WHO for why they are so useless and push them to do better so then maybe the US wouldn't feel the need to cut money?

This is typical Democrat logic though, bloated bureaucratic organizations are good! Even if they no longer serve their original function!

[Tgo01]

Made up. I'm pretty sure Fortybox is Sean Hannity

The flu kills upwards of 65k Americans each year.

So far we're at 11k deaths with 2k deaths a day and it's projected we are going to hit the peak deaths per day in 7-10 days. A lot could change between now and the next week or two, but if current projections and trends hold true this virus will kill about the same number of Americans who die to flu, possibly a bit more, possibly a bit less.

[Risen]

Have you not been paying attention to the news cycles today? The models over projected and were adjusted down. By the time we get a true sense of what this denominator is it may well be below the flu.

#fakepandemic

No, I watch the data cycles. Too many people try to tell us what the experts are really saying. A source that I use (and others here use) the IHME Covid-19 Projections data sets were adjusted down, thankfully. Two days ago on April 5th. Tgo01 actually called it out in one of his summaries. I believe Tgo01 said it improved (dropped) by about 12,000 or so deaths. And you would be right that the deaths from 2018-2019 for Influenza were estimated to be about 66,000 across the US. The new projections clock in just over that at about 82,000.


I know how much you appreciate my math, so I'm not going to go there. I'm simply going to copy and paste the second line from the IHME Covid-19 Projections web site, the projections that I suspect most of the chatter is about.


"COVID-19 projections assuming full social distancing through May 2020"


Carrying on the social distancing activities well past any patience of our administration, or ourselves. Now, imagine if border closures, social distancing, stay-at-home, essential-business-only, wash-your-hands, don't-hoard type mandates hadn't been enacted.

Do not get me wrong - there were (and continue to be) missteps in our approach to dealing with this pandemic. On all sides. And it is tearing the bottom out of our economy. We are paying too heavy price a price for our lack of planning. Calling it a fake pandemic, though - I just don't get that. At all.

Unless there is a data source I am not looking at yet. I would - still and truly - like to be wrong.

[Archigeek]

The flu kills upwards of 65k Americans each year.

So far we're at 11k deaths with 2k deaths a day and it's projected we are going to hit the peak deaths per day in 7-10 days. A lot could change between now and the next week or two, but if current projections and trends hold true this virus will kill about the same number of Americans who die to flu, possibly a bit more, possibly a bit less.

Upwards of 65,000 per year? The CDC has the range for the last 10 years between 12 and 61 thousand.

In any case, the idea that Covid19 isn't a pandemic is preposterous, and not supported by facts.

[Archigeek]

Good news, antibody tests are being rolled out. This is excellent news. The Mayo Clinic released their test on Monday.

[Fortybox]

I would - still and truly - like to be wrong.

You will be. Just give it time.

[Seran]

Upwards of 65,000 per year? The CDC has the range for the last 10 years between 12 and 61 thousand.

In any case, the idea that Covid19 isn't a pandemic is preposterous, and not supported by facts.

Shh, let the tin foil people believe their 'facts'

[Tgo01]

Upwards of 65,000 per year? The CDC has the range for the last 10 years between 12 and 61 thousand.

The CDC estimated that the 2017-2018 flu season killed upwards of 95k Americans, but their estimate is 61k for that year.

During the 2014-2015 flu season the CDC estimated upwards of 64k Americans died during that flu season, with their estimate being 51k.

Point remains that the CDC estimates upwards of 95k Americans dying during the worst flu season, with 61k being their highest official estimate. So far the Wuhan Virus is on track to kill about the same or even fewer Americans than the worst seasonal flu figures.

[Tgo01]

Shh, let the tin foil people believe their 'facts'

Yes.

"Upwards of 65k? NOT!!!! It's only 61k."

Keep clinging to those small victories.

[Risen]

Good news, antibody tests are being rolled out. This is excellent news. The Mayo Clinic released their test on Monday.

Any insight yet into if this will walk the same path as the existing RNA testing for coronavirus? I'm excited this is progressing, but the impact to the various projection scenarios by itself is almost nil.

Combine this with broadly available at-home testing, and couple it with a surge in plasma donation and we have an immediate favorable impact to the current situation which will save a significant number of lives.

[Parkbandit]

No, I watch the data cycles. Too many people try to tell us what the experts are really saying. A source that I use (and others here use) the IHME Covid-19 Projections data sets were adjusted down, thankfully. Two days ago on April 5th. Tgo01 actually called it out in one of his summaries. I believe Tgo01 said it improved (dropped) by about 12,000 or so deaths. And you would be right that the deaths from 2018-2019 for Influenza were estimated to be about 66,000 across the US. The new projections clock in just over that at about 82,000.


I know how much you appreciate my math, so I'm not going to go there. I'm simply going to copy and paste the second line from the IHME Covid-19 Projections web site, the projections that I suspect most of the chatter is about.


"COVID-19 projections assuming full social distancing through May 2020"


Carrying on the social distancing activities well past any patience of our administration, or ourselves. Now, imagine if border closures, social distancing, stay-at-home, essential-business-only, wash-your-hands, don't-hoard type mandates hadn't been enacted.

Do not get me wrong - there were (and continue to be) missteps in our approach to dealing with this pandemic. On all sides. And it is tearing the bottom out of our economy. We are paying too heavy price a price for our lack of planning. Calling it a fake pandemic, though - I just don't get that. At all.

Unless there is a data source I am not looking at yet. I would - still and truly - like to be wrong.

Remember when you claimed that the death rate would be between 4.5% and 6%?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-27-2014/Rfytkn.gif

[Seran]

The flu kills upwards of 65k Americans each year.

So far we're at 11k deaths with 2k deaths a day and it's projected we are going to hit the peak deaths per day in 7-10 days. A lot could change between now and the next week or two, but if current projections and trends hold true this virus will kill about the same number of Americans who die to flu, possibly a bit more, possibly a bit less.

At ten times the mortality rate of the average flu season, how can you compare the coronavirus and a season influenza? The sheer virulence of the coronavirus, the fact there's no vaccine and the fact it's showing increasingly showing to be zoonotic, there is absolutely no comparison.

I truly hope all the estimates are overblown. Yet that hope doesn't mean I'm going to stop protecting my family

[Tgo01]

At ten times the mortality rate of the average flu season, how can you compare the coronavirus and a season influenza?

We have no idea what the mortality rate is of the Wuhan Virus and we won't have any idea until the antibodies tests go out and we start getting a lot of results in.

Right now we are going by confirmed cases, the CDC ESTIMATES the mortality rate of the flu based on testing because not everyone who is suspected of having the flu is even tested, and many people who get the flu simply rest at home and never seek medical help. It's going to be the same thing with the Wuhan Virus, and with how much more infectious the Wuhan Virus supposedly is then it's going to bring that mortality rate way down, either that or the antibody tests will show the Wuhan Virus isn't as infectious as people are saying.

[Tgo01]

Pelosi is already threatening to hold the next round of Wuhan Virus relief funding hostage until she gets her way. This time she says she won't pass funding relief until mail in voting for federal elections is put into the bill.

What is wrong with her and the people who keep voting for her? Imagine the sheer amount of evil one must possess to see Americans dying and suffering and her first thought is "Oh boy! What a wonderful time to push my political agenda! And if the Republicans won't get on board I can just accuse THEM of not caring about Americans dying and suffering!"

[Seran]

We have no idea what the mortality rate is of the Wuhan Virus and we won't have any idea until the antibodies tests go out and we start getting a lot of results in.

Right now we are going by confirmed cases, the CDC ESTIMATES the mortality rate of the flu based on testing because not everyone who is suspected of having the flu is even tested, and many people who get the flu simply rest at home and never seek medical help. It's going to be the same thing with the Wuhan Virus, and with how much more infectious the Wuhan Virus supposedly is then it's going to bring that mortality rate way down, either that or the antibody tests will show the Wuhan Virus isn't as infectious as people are saying.

That's the hope anyways. So long as the states and the feds continue social distancing as they are now, then leadership can help keep that number down

[Tgo01]

These reporters are just monsters.

"If people get sick in Wisconsin because they voted today, do you feel you share some of the responsibility because you encouraged people to vote today?"

Can you imagine for one second if Trump encouraged people to NOT vote on an election day?

"OMG!!!! Trump is trying to suppress the vote!!!!11!! Democracy Dies in Darkness!!!!!111"

In fact you can literally be banned from social media sites such as Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter if you tell people to NOT vote.

[Tgo01]

So Dr. Birx said in some countries if someone has the Wuhan Virus then they develop heart or kidney issues as a result of the Wuhan Virus and they end up dying of heart failure or kidney failure that they aren't counting that as a death from Wuhan Virus but rather as heart/kidney failure. She also went on to say in the US if someone dies with the Wuhan Virus then their cause of death is considered to be from the Wuhan Virus.

This means if someone dies from a heart attack and they had the Wuhan Virus then the cause of death is considered to be from the Wuhan Virus, even if their infection was just merely a coincidence.

And before you say "Stop spreading bullshit, Tgo01!" Dr. Fauci then went on to literally say...if someone dies of a heart attack and they had the Wuhan Virus then the cause of death is considered to be from the Wuhan Virus.

Who exactly was the one to make the decision that death from Wuhan Virus was so broad in the US?

Like I get it to an extent. AIDs isn't directly the cause of death, it just makes your immune system shit so you die easily from infections. But still if someone has HIV and they suffer a heart attack I'm pretty sure they don't consider HIV to be a contributing factor to the death.

[Candor]

We have no idea what the mortality rate is of the Wuhan Virus and we won't have any idea until the antibodies tests go out and we start getting a lot of results in.

Right now we are going by confirmed cases, the CDC ESTIMATES the mortality rate of the flu based on testing because not everyone who is suspected of having the flu is even tested, and many people who get the flu simply rest at home and never seek medical help. It's going to be the same thing with the Wuhan Virus, and with how much more infectious the Wuhan Virus supposedly is then it's going to bring that mortality rate way down, either that or the antibody tests will show the Wuhan Virus isn't as infectious as people are saying.

Some people get the Wuhan Virus and have few or no symptoms. It is safe to say most of these folks have not been tested.

[Neveragain]

Resources such as timber and steel are produced and purchased much more cheaply abroad, than domestically. Hell, look at the trade data for wood, our softwood imports for say, house framing, are ten times what our exports are. That has nothing to do with availability of the resource, it's because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to import

Democrats: Create legislation that makes it more and more difficult to access domestic resources.

Also Democrats: "It's cheaper to import resources!"

Also Democrats: "No more war for resources!"

[Fortybox]

So Dr. Birx said in some countries if someone has the Wuhan Virus then they develop heart or kidney issues as a result of the Wuhan Virus and they end up dying of heart failure or kidney failure that they aren't counting that as a death from Wuhan Virus but rather as heart/kidney failure. She also went on to say in the US if someone dies with the Wuhan Virus then their cause of death is considered to be from the Wuhan Virus.

This means if someone dies from a heart attack and they had the Wuhan Virus then the cause of death is considered to be from the Wuhan Virus, even if their infection was just merely a coincidence.

And before you say "Stop spreading bullshit, Tgo01!" Dr. Fauci then went on to literally say...if someone dies of a heart attack and they had the Wuhan Virus then the cause of death is considered to be from the Wuhan Virus.

Who exactly was the one to make the decision that death from Wuhan Virus was so broad in the US?

Like I get it to an extent. AIDs isn't directly the cause of death, it just makes your immune system shit so you die easily from infections. But still if someone has HIV and they suffer a heart attack I'm pretty sure they don't consider HIV to be a contributing factor to the death.

This is why this is a fake pandemic. The number of people actually dying specifically to the virus is MUCH lower...and likely lower than the flu.

[Keller]

The flu kills upwards of 65k Americans each year.

So far we're at 11k deaths with 2k deaths a day and it's projected we are going to hit the peak deaths per day in 7-10 days. A lot could change between now and the next week or two, but if current projections and trends hold true this virus will kill about the same number of Americans who die to flu, possibly a bit more, possibly a bit less.

Can you cite your source for 65k Americans die from the flu each year?

Re COVID-19, the low end of the projected deaths from even the rosiest model assumes 100 percent compliance with the shelter in place orders. So to hit the numbers you think are equivalent to the flu, we literally had to shut shutter tens of thousands of businesess, schools, and move the majority of the rest of businesses to working from home.

One of the most infuriating thing about the actions our leaders have taken in the face of this pandemic is that, if they are successful, their success will be used against them by morons as data that "see we overreacted!"

[Seran]

Democrats: Create legislation that makes it more and more difficult to access domestic resources.

Also Democrats: "It's cheaper to import resources!"

Also Democrats: "No more war for resources!"

Yes, you just named all good things.

[Fortybox]

Can you cite your source for 65k Americans die from the flu each year?

Re COVID-19, the low end of the projected deaths from even the rosiest model assumes 100 percent compliance with the shelter in place orders. So to hit the numbers you think are equivalent to the flu, we literally had to shut shutter tens of thousands of businesess, schools, and move the majority of the rest of businesses to working from home.

One of the most infuriating thing about the actions our leaders have taken in the face of this fake pandemic is that, if they are successful, their success will be used against them by morons as data that "see we overreacted!"

The assumptions were not correct. We are over attributing actual COVID-19 deaths.

Smart people look into the actual assumptions and associated inputs. What you'll see is a continual revisioning of the models as these assumptions/inputs change.

[Tgo01]

Can you cite your source for 65k Americans die from the flu each year?

Yeah the CDC. Also I didn't say "each" year, I said upwards of 65k a year.

[Archigeek]

Any insight yet into if this will walk the same path as the existing RNA testing for coronavirus? I'm excited this is progressing, but the impact to the various projection scenarios by itself is almost nil.

Combine this with broadly available at-home testing, and couple it with a surge in plasma donation and we have an immediate favorable impact to the current situation which will save a significant number of lives.

RNA test shows the existence of the disease. Antibody tests show evidence that the immune system has fought or is fighting the disease. An antibody test is a big help in identifying who's had it and where it's popping up. As a side note, there's the whole plasma treatment method, which is being worked on.

[~Rocktar~]

Can you cite your source for 65k Americans die from the flu each year?

Re COVID-19, the low end of the projected deaths from even the rosiest model assumes 100 percent compliance with the shelter in place orders. So to hit the numbers you think are equivalent to the flu, we literally had to shut shutter tens of thousands of businesess, schools, and move the majority of the rest of businesses to working from home.

One of the most infuriating thing about the actions our leaders have taken in the face of this pandemic is that, if they are successful, their success will be used against them by morons as data that "see we overreacted!"

One of the most infuriating things about this whole mess is the media and morons like you sucking China's dick all the time over this virus. I only care about 2 numbers and they are the ones we should be focusing on. How infectious is this vs things like the cold, flu and other such diseases. In other words, how likely are you to get it when you come into contact with someone that has it. Second, the mortality rate based on infection. We have no idea about either. Morons are out there touting how many people have gotten sick and how many have died, doctors are falsely attributing death to the disease to bolster the numbers AND to cover the decisions and actions we have made regarding it and the media and others are all believing world numbers that absolutely suck rocks as far as accuracy and verification (I;m looking at you China).

I imagine that this is somewhat infections on the order of the flu, maybe slightly more infectious, who knows since we don't know how many people have gotten it, gotten better and/or never had symptoms. We might know better had China not covered it up and had the Congress and media not blinded everyone with the fraudulent Impeachment hearings. Then we have Dr know it all saying back in January that it wasn't anything to worry about based on China's numbers. We don't know how lethal it is because very dead person that coughed or ha a fever is listed as a fatality. Based on these shitty numbers we are destroying the western economy and our future while possibly destroying our country. Meanwhile the Leftist media is all over Trump when he enacted travel bans calling him racist over it because according to them back then "It wasn't anything to worry about" per Dr know it all. Now they are going after him because "He should have acted quicker" now that impeachment didn't work and they are taking it seriously. Fuck them, fuck you for believing them and fuck all you assholes that think this is a good chance to change America into the Socialist utopia that you dream about.

The most infuriating thing about this whole mess is how quickly people have accepted the loss of freedom, the loss of rights and the descent into police state so that a small percentage of immuno-compromised people don't have to feel alone because THEY should stay isolated. Right now, the mortality numbers on this don't speak highly, nor do they balance the level of response we have mustered. Not the infection, mortality. People die all the time, we don't give two shits, old people and immune damaged die from a load of preventable diseases like cold, flu, pneumonia and so on. We don't destroy the western world or subjugate ourselves to a police state over it. And the lovely thing is Keller, you and all your Leftist buddies have no fucking way to prove the mortality rate on this disease and you and the media are all driving this on emotions. I hope America can withstand this and remain free and I sorely hope that you and your Leftist buddies don't have to live under the government that you dream of because if you succeed, then I hope they come for you first.

[Archigeek]

Yeah the CDC. Also I didn't say "each" year, I said upwards of 65k a year.

Actually you said per year. You are almost as bad as Bill Clinton trying to weasel his way out of the definition of the word "is." Then followed up by picking the high end (95k) of the estimate for the most virulent year in the last 10 years (46k to 95k in 2017-2018), instead of taking the CDCs estimate of 61k, which is STILL the highest estimate in the last 10 years by a solid 10,000 over the second most virulent year in the last 10, which you threw in in to bolster your claim. Why do you feel the need to be so deceptive?


The CDC estimated that the 2017-2018 flu season killed upwards of 95k Americans, but their estimate is 61k for that year.

During the 2014-2015 flu season the CDC estimated upwards of 64k Americans died during that flu season, with their estimate being 51k.

Point remains that the CDC estimates upwards of 95k Americans dying during the worst flu season, with 61k being their highest official estimate. So far the Wuhan Virus is on track to kill about the same or even fewer Americans than the worst seasonal flu figures.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

By the way, the definition of "upwards of" is: above, over, exceeding, or in excess of. You are trying to twist facts to support a poor claim when it's obvious that Covid 19 is way worse than the flu.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Can't wait to see this bitch crying in jail.

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-police-plan-charge-teen-terroristic-threat-say-she-willfully-spreading-coronavirus-1496374

[Gelston]

Can't wait to see this bitch crying in jail.

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-police-plan-charge-teen-terroristic-threat-say-she-willfully-spreading-coronavirus-1496374

She is probably already scared as fuck, they know who she is and have contacted her family. She doesn't realize she is 18 now and that dumb bullshit put her in adult jail.

[Risen]

RNA test shows the existence of the disease. Antibody tests show evidence that the immune system has fought or is fighting the disease. An antibody test is a big help in identifying who's had it and where it's popping up. As a side note, there's the whole plasma treatment method, which is being worked on.

Yes, I understand. The problem is the RNA test is still not generally available because of ... reasons. At first, I expect the antibody test will not be generally available. Limited initial supply in this country means priority assignment, usually by medical prescription. I am not arguing against this, just noting it. That is why I said broadly available at-home testing. I do believe that a surge in blood donations with the antibodies present is a great way to save lives. I just do not foresee the surge happening, and I do not think the antibody testing will be available to the masses anytime soon. Stated differently, even if it is successfully deployed, the impact to this window - between today and July 15th - is going to be minimal.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

She is probably already scared as fuck, they know who she is and have contacted her family. She doesn't realize she is 18 now and that dumb bullshit put her in adult jail.

And those kids can vote and drive too! Should raise everything to 26.

[Archigeek]

Yes, I understand. The problem is the RNA test is still not generally available because of ... reasons. At first, I expect the antibody test will not be generally available. Limited initial supply in this country means priority assignment, usually by medical prescription. I am not arguing against this, just noting it. That is why I said broadly available at-home testing. I do believe that a surge in blood donations with the antibodies present is a great way to save lives. I just do not foresee the surge happening, and I do not think the antibody testing will be available to the masses anytime soon. Stated differently, even if it is successfully deployed, the impact to this window - between today and July 15th - is going to be minimal.

The thing is that we don't know that much about this virus. We don't know if you can get it a second time even. The antibody testing will help us understand who's had the virus and to track it, and more quickly shut it down if it flares up again. Remember that the Spanish Flu had a summer lull, and then came roaring back in the fall of 1918, killing a whole lot more people. We need to plan for a second wave of infections, and an antibody test will help us control it much more quickly if/when it happens.

[Tgo01]

Actually you said per year.

I really don't understand what your obsession is with watching people literally claim I said shit I never said then saying "Actually you did say that!!"

Tgo01: The flu kills UPWARDS of 65k Americans each year.
UPWARDS. UPWARDS!!!

Keller: Can you cite your source for 65k Americans die from the flu each year?
Archigeek: Keller is right! You said 65k Americans die from flu each year!

NO MENTION OF THE WORD UPWARDS! Totally changes what I said.

Christ man. Just fucking knock it off already.


By the way, the definition of "upwards of" is: above, over, exceeding, or in excess of. You are trying to twist facts to support a poor claim when it's obvious that Covid 19 is way worse than the flu.

Are you really now arguing that I am using the word "upwards" wrong? Is your grasp on the English language really this tenuous?

Also as to your earlier bullshit, I also didn't "pick the high end" of 95k, I cited 65k and your own link backs me up with the CDC estimating 61k for the 2017-2018 flu season, the same year in which they said it could be UPWARDS (I am using it correctly) of 95k, but I used their estimate.

You going for the Seran-low-hanging-fruit win here because it's only 61k and I said 65k?

[Archigeek]

I really don't understand what your obsession is with watching people literally claim I said shit I never said then saying "Actually you did say that!!"

Tgo01: The flu kills UPWARDS of 65k Americans each year.
UPWARDS. UPWARDS!!!

Keller: Can you cite your source for 65k Americans die from the flu each year?
Archigeek: Keller is right! You said 65k Americans die from flu each year!

NO MENTION OF THE WORD UPWARDS! Totally changes what I said.

Christ man. Just fucking knock it off already.



Are you really now arguing that I am using the word "upwards" wrong? Is your grasp on the English language really this tenuous?

Also as to your earlier bullshit, I also didn't "pick the high end" of 95k, I cited 65k and your own link backs me up with the CDC estimating 61k for the 2017-2018 flu season, the same year in which they said it could be UPWARDS (I am using it correctly) of 95k, but I used their estimate.

You going for the Seran-low-hanging-fruit win here because it's only 61k and I said 65k?

Per year implies on average, not picking the worst year in the last ten, which is what you're doing in an effort to support the idiotic claim that Covid 19 is no worse than the flu. And yes, I'm implying you don't understand what "upwards" means, as there's no other explanation of why you would say the CDC estimates upwards of 95k deaths in 2017-2018. I fucking quoted you and you still deny saying it. No where does the CDC say any such thing for either 95k OR 65k for the last 10 years.

I think you should find a different sword to fall on. Covid 19 is a much bigger health problem for this country than the seasonal flu. Stop being willfully obtuse.

[Methais]

Good news, antibody tests are being rolled out. This is excellent news. The Mayo Clinic released their test on Monday.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWcq8vr8AV0

[Methais]

Yes.

"Upwards of 65k? NOT!!!! It's only 61k."

Keep clinging to those small victories.

Actual screenshot of Seran posting:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/191/035/135.png

[Stolis]

Bit of a naive question, and I don't feel like googling it. When SARS came out, was there a second wave of it? Or did it just kinda burn out and never had a second stage flareup?

[Tgo01]

Bit of a naive question, and I don't feel like googling it. When SARS came out, was there a second wave of it? Or did it just kinda burn out and never had a second stage flareup?

From what I recall SARS burned out pretty quickly because people weren't contagious until after they were showing symptoms and most people showed symptoms relatively earlier after infection.

[Methais]

https://scontent.fbtr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93131141_1126873357673264_8243319087556460544_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=AJsWVWN3htAAX-silT6&_nc_ht=scontent.fbtr1-1.fna&oh=334c1ecb263240ef5eb8f515024cd3b7&oe=5EB39DF8

[Tgo01]

https://scontent.fbtr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93131141_1126873357673264_8243319087556460544_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=AJsWVWN3htAAX-silT6&_nc_ht=scontent.fbtr1-1.fna&oh=334c1ecb263240ef5eb8f515024cd3b7&oe=5EB39DF8

Shit is getting nuts. I'm all for people following these guidelines, but this shit is getting silly. It's like what that one sheriff in Maine said, this isn't soviet Russia where you have to show your papers anytime you go somewhere.

[Fortybox]

https://scontent.fbtr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93131141_1126873357673264_8243319087556460544_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=AJsWVWN3htAAX-silT6&_nc_ht=scontent.fbtr1-1.fna&oh=334c1ecb263240ef5eb8f515024cd3b7&oe=5EB39DF8

:lol:

This #fakepandemic is so retarded. Geez

[Archigeek]

From what I recall SARS burned out pretty quickly because people weren't contagious until after they were showing symptoms and most people showed symptoms relatively earlier after infection.

My recollection is that SARS was pretty much like the flu in terms of death rate and infection rate. I think it infected something like 60 million people in the US, but thankfully SARS mutated into a less and less deadly disease, meaning the end result was something like 12k dead for 60m infections in the US. Let's hope Covid19 Peter's out just like SARS did. Or maybe I'm thinking of MERS.

[Tgo01]

My recollection is that SARS was pretty much like the flu in terms of death rate and infection rate. I think it infected something like 60 million people in the US, but thankfully SARS mutated into a less and less deadly disease, meaning the end result was something like 12k dead for 60m infections in the US. Let's hope Covid19 Peter's out just like SARS did. Or maybe I'm thinking of MERS.

Are you thinking of H1N1? SARS was over with quickly and didn't infect many people at all. MERS didn't go very far at all either.

[Astray]

SARS was weird. One moment it was the worst disease in history and next time it was a skit on South Park about how chicken soup and sprite cured it.

[Risen]

The thing is that we don't know that much about this virus. We don't know if you can get it a second time even. The antibody testing will help us understand who's had the virus and to track it, and more quickly shut it down if it flares up again. Remember that the Spanish Flu had a summer lull, and then came roaring back in the fall of 1918, killing a whole lot more people. We need to plan for a second wave of infections, and an antibody test will help us control it much more quickly if/when it happens.

Agree completely. I in no way am attempting to say this is not a good thing. It is also a critical step on the path to a successful vaccine for future use. I am simply stating that the timing and impact will not be felt anytime soon.

[Archigeek]

Are you thinking of H1N1? SARS was over with quickly and didn't infect many people at all. MERS didn't go very far at all either.

Yeah I was thinking of H1N1.

[Keller]

We are over attributing actual COVID-19 deaths.

Can you point me in the direction of an explanation of that? Thanks.

[Keller]

Yeah the CDC. Also I didn't say "each" year, I said upwards of 65k a year.

Got it.

I don't think the CDC's data supports your statement.

It's like me saying "upwards of 2,000 die a day from COVID-19" and using it to argue 730,000 people will die a year from it.

It's intellectually dishonest.

[Keller]

One of the most infuriating things about this whole mess is the media and morons like you sucking China's dick all the time over this virus. I only care about 2 numbers and they are the ones we should be focusing on. How infectious is this vs things like the cold, flu and other such diseases. In other words, how likely are you to get it when you come into contact with someone that has it. Second, the mortality rate based on infection. We have no idea about either. Morons are out there touting how many people have gotten sick and how many have died, doctors are falsely attributing death to the disease to bolster the numbers AND to cover the decisions and actions we have made regarding it and the media and others are all believing world numbers that absolutely suck rocks as far as accuracy and verification (I;m looking at you China).

I imagine that this is somewhat infections on the order of the flu, maybe slightly more infectious, who knows since we don't know how many people have gotten it, gotten better and/or never had symptoms. We might know better had China not covered it up and had the Congress and media not blinded everyone with the fraudulent Impeachment hearings. Then we have Dr know it all saying back in January that it wasn't anything to worry about based on China's numbers. We don't know how lethal it is because very dead person that coughed or ha a fever is listed as a fatality. Based on these shitty numbers we are destroying the western economy and our future while possibly destroying our country. Meanwhile the Leftist media is all over Trump when he enacted travel bans calling him racist over it because according to them back then "It wasn't anything to worry about" per Dr know it all. Now they are going after him because "He should have acted quicker" now that impeachment didn't work and they are taking it seriously. Fuck them, fuck you for believing them and fuck all you assholes that think this is a good chance to change America into the Socialist utopia that you dream about.

The most infuriating thing about this whole mess is how quickly people have accepted the loss of freedom, the loss of rights and the descent into police state so that a small percentage of immuno-compromised people don't have to feel alone because THEY should stay isolated. Right now, the mortality numbers on this don't speak highly, nor do they balance the level of response we have mustered. Not the infection, mortality. People die all the time, we don't give two shits, old people and immune damaged die from a load of preventable diseases like cold, flu, pneumonia and so on. We don't destroy the western world or subjugate ourselves to a police state over it. And the lovely thing is Keller, you and all your Leftist buddies have no fucking way to prove the mortality rate on this disease and you and the media are all driving this on emotions. I hope America can withstand this and remain free and I sorely hope that you and your Leftist buddies don't have to live under the government that you dream of because if you succeed, then I hope they come for you first.

I only got through the first paragraph before I socially distanced from your post to avoid being another victim of the pandumbic, but there is data on virility.

Based on early data from China (which many of you are claiming under reported cases), the R0 was 2.2 (or, as Tgo would say, upwards of 3). Last I saw was an advanced copy of a medical journal article scheduled to be published in June 2020 that indicates the R0 of COVID-19 is 5.7.

R0 of the seasonal flu is anywhere from 0.9 to 2.1.

We won't have any reliably accurate data on mortality rates. There are lots of people dying without tests that will never get tests and lots of people recovering that will never get tests (arguably serological testing could provide us insight on recoveries, but it won't help with folks that die of it without tests).

I know it's not a vaccine for the pandumbic, but hopefully this information is a clinical treatment that will allow you to survive your infection.

[Fortybox]

Can you point me in the direction of an explanation of that? Thanks.

Search engines aren't hard to use. Dr. Birx even said they are counting covid-19 deaths if the actual cause of the death was due to something else. If you had kidney failure and tested positive for the virus and then die it will count as a covid-19 death. So you have a lot of Americans who would have died anyways being counted when they shouldn't be.

[Keller]

Search engines aren't hard to use. Dr. Birx even said they are counting covid-19 deaths if the actual cause of the death was due to something else. If you had kidney failure and tested positive for the virus and then die it will count as a covid-19 death. So you have a lot of Americans who would have died anyways being counted when they shouldn't be.

The reality is that people have co-morbidities that make them more likely to die from COVID-19 than the rest of the population. When they get sick and die, in part due to their co-morbility, it's not correct to blame it on the co-morbity. That's like saying a hemophiliac that gets hit by a car and bleeds out didn't die from being hit by a car, they died because they were a hemophiliac.

[Fortybox]

The reality is that people have co-morbidities that make them more likely to die from COVID-19 than the rest of the population. When they get sick and die, in part due to their co-morbility, it's not correct to blame it on the co-morbity. That's like saying a hemophiliac that gets hit by a car and bleeds out didn't die from being hit by a car, they died because they were a hemophiliac.

Bad analogy. You have people who would have died anyways.

[Risen]

The most infuriating thing about this whole mess is how quickly people have accepted the loss of freedom, the loss of rights and the descent into police state so that a small percentage of immuno-compromised people don't have to feel alone because THEY should stay isolated. Right now, the mortality numbers on this don't speak highly, nor do they balance the level of response we have mustered. Not the infection, mortality. People die all the time, we don't give two shits, old people and immune damaged die from a load of preventable diseases like cold, flu, pneumonia and so on. We don't destroy the western world or subjugate ourselves to a police state over it. And the lovely thing is Keller, you and all your Leftist buddies have no fucking way to prove the mortality rate on this disease and you and the media are all driving this on emotions. I hope America can withstand this and remain free and I sorely hope that you and your Leftist buddies don't have to live under the government that you dream of because if you succeed, then I hope they come for you first.

I wanted to go back and revisit the points offered here.

I agree that it is exceedingly infuriating to have pushed ourselves into this loss of freedom, the loss of individual rights and the descent into a police state. These are outcomes of some of the missteps I referred to earlier, due to our lack of a good plan. The economy is another outcome.

I don't agree that the mortality numbers do not warrant some form of response. The entire world is suffering from this, no matter what the numbers say. I would also point out that if 'the left' cannot possibly prove a 'thing', 'the right' has exactly the same chance - so it literally becomes the narrative that the listener is most comfortable with that will carry the day. Note that I did not say most truthful or proven. The reason this point is so important is because it will hamper our efforts to plan any response for the next pandemic - a plan to respond to something that happens now with ever-increasing frequency.

In case it is not obvious, I am not trying to change anyone's current perception of the situation. I do really want to explore the question - how do we do this better? No one is going to escape this unscathed, and few will be in a better position than before. No matter the accepted reason of the masses this is flat unacceptable. We can do better.

[Keller]

Bad analogy. You have people who would have died anyways.

That's a lazy take. Everyone is going to die.

The car accelerated death for the hemophiliac. COVID-19 accelerated death for the person with diabetes or heart disease or whatever other co-morbidity you'd like to blame for the death.

[Methais]

Shit is getting nuts. I'm all for people following these guidelines, but this shit is getting silly. It's like what that one sheriff in Maine said, this isn't soviet Russia where you have to show your papers anytime you go somewhere.

If someone gets close enough to you to issue a citation for "ignoring social distancing" by being outside or whatever, then the person issuing the citation should have to issue themselves one too, as them getting close enough to issue you a citation is them also ignoring social distancing.

[Astray]

If someone gets close enough to you to issue a citation for "ignoring social distancing" by being outside or whatever, then the person issuing the citation should have to issue themselves one too, as them getting close enough to issue you a citation is them also ignoring social distancing.

Eventually everyone will have a citation and citations will be eliminated. Solid move.

[Risen]

Eventually everyone will have a citation and citations will be eliminated. Solid move.

But ... someone will insist on counting them anyway.

[Alfster]

Sounds like a great way to pay for all the socialism this has brought on us.

Everyone gets a check!

[Seran]

Eventually everyone will have a citation and citations will be eliminated. Solid move.

Somehow I don't think the law of equivalent exchange applies to social distancing citations. Though your response was decidedly funny.

[Fortybox]

That's a lazy take. Everyone is going to die.

The car accelerated death for the hemophiliac. COVID-19 accelerated death for the person with diabetes or heart disease or whatever other co-morbidity you'd like to blame for the death.

It's not lazy. They are miscategorizing and as a result, the numerator is not a correct representation of what the virus actually is doing to the broad population.

The numerator is overstated. The denominator is understated.

#fakepandemic

[Keller]

It's not lazy. They are miscategorizing and as a result, the numerator is not a correct representation of what the virus actually is doing to the broad population.

The numerator is overstated. The denominator is understated.

#fakepandemic

People with COVID-19 are dying that would not have died without being hospitalized with COVID-19.

Saying "well they had kidney failure because they were diabetic and therefore it's not a COVID-19 death" is the same as saying "well they bled out because they were hemophiliacs and therefore it's not a car accident related death."

It's called a co-morbidity for a reason. Age, obesity, asthma, diabetes, smoking, etc are co-morbidities. They will increase the likelihood of an infected person dying. But the fact remains they would have been alive (at least a little longer) without being infected.

[Fortybox]

People with COVID-19 are dying that would not have died without being hospitalized with COVID-19.

Saying "well they had kidney failure because they were diabetic and therefore it's not a COVID-19 death" is the same as saying "well they bled out because they were hemophiliacs and therefore it's not a car accident related death."

It's called a co-morbidity for a reason. Age, obesity, asthma, diabetes, smoking, etc are co-morbidities. They will increase the likelihood of an infected person dying. But the fact remains they would have been alive (at least a little longer) without being infected.

The numerator is overstated. The denominator is understated.

#fakepandemic

[Tgo01]

Another bad day.

On April 7th the number of new daily infections increased by 3,000 from 30,331 on April 6th to 33,331 on April 7th. NY accounted for 1,570 (53%) of this increase.

New daily deaths increased by 715, going from 1,255 to 1970. NY accounted for 132 (19%) of this increase.

NY and NJ accounted for 42% of all new infections for April 7th and 49% of all new deaths.

Things are pretty stable for April 8th.

On April 8th the number of new daily infections was 1,396, dropping from 33,331 on April 7th to 31,935 on April 8th.

New daily deaths also dropped slightly, going from 1,970 to 1,940.

NY and NJ still are disproportionately represented in the number of new infection but it's dropping slightly. NY and NJ accounted for 37% of all new infections.

The share of the number of new deaths for NY and NJ ticked up slightly, but that's actually to be expected as the number of new cases taper off. NY and NJ accounted for 54% of all new deaths.

As always it's much too early to tell but the number of new infections in the US has been pretty stable for a week now. The number of new deaths shot up just yesterday but the number of deaths dropping is going to lag behind the number of new infections dropping as the people who got sick a week or more ago are unfortunately now passing away.

[Tgo01]

Maryland might be the next hot spot, their number of new daily cases shot up 900 from the 7th to the 8th, about a 300% increase.

It's also funny watching reporters bitch time and time again, either to Trump or in their newspaper, that some states still haven't shut down and blaming them for everything.

These states, which so happen to all be red states and have Republican governors (but I'm sure that has nothing to do with their consistent whining), are among the states handling this crisis the best. It's almost all blue states that are really infected and are spreading the infections to neighboring states or even to warmer states with all of their summer homes like Florida.

US average: 1,314 infections per 1 million people.
All states ABOVE this average:

NY (blue state): 7,706/million
NJ (blue state): 5,351/million
Louisiana (red state but we can go ahead and blame blue New Orleans): 3,652/million
Massachusetts (blue state): 2,458/million
Connecticut (blue state: 2,452/million
DC (blue): 2,104/million
Michigan (blue): 2,043/million
Rhode Island (blue): 1,372/million

The 8 states the media constantly bitches about because they haven't shut down their state yet (all red states):

Utah: 606/million
South Dakota: 455/million
Wyoming: 395/million
Oklahoma: 389/million
Iowa: 366/million
Arkansas: 360/million
North Dakota: 334/million
Nebraska: 272/million

Yes, clearly it is these red states who haven't yet got a handle on this situation and are making things worse. Thanks for keeping us informed, media!

[Voldemort]

The 8 states the media constantly bitches about because they haven't shut down their state yet (all red states):

Utah: 606/million
South Dakota: 455/million
Wyoming: 395/million
Oklahoma: 389/million
Iowa: 366/million
Arkansas: 360/million
North Dakota: 334/million
Nebraska: 272/million

Yes, clearly it is these red states who haven't yet got a handle on this situation and are making things worse. Thanks for keeping us informed, media!

lol people actually live in those states?

[Parkbandit]

And those kids can vote and drive too! Should raise everything to 26.

Democrats disagree. They are trying to lower the voting age to 16 because they know they need a really ignorant base to vote for their already large base of truly stupid people.

[Tgo01]

I think this is what Seran was bitching about a couple of days ago, about how our intelligence agency warned Trump way back in November of a possible pandemic and Trump should have closed the country up in December but chose not to:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

Yeah, about that, Seran, the director of the intelligence agency in question issued an official statement today:


"As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters. However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists."

Once again you have dropped to your knees before the mainstream media, opened wide and said "Give me all the fake news you've got!" After swallowing it all you then regurgitated that shit on the PC.

Honestly now, I've lost track of the number of times you have fallen for outright fake news, it has to be at least a dozen times by now. At what point does a rational person realize they are being lied to and manipulated? It's probably 2 or 3, 4 times max. You're at 12+ now, Seran, and I highly doubt you will finally realize the truth even after this whopper, so we can only conclude you are not a rational person.

[Seran]

As the President dithered, coronavirus came to the United States.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-nsc/as-trump-administration-debated-travel-restrictions-thousands-streamed-in-from-china-idUSKBN21N0EJ

Wrong story, right idea.

[Tgo01]

Wrong story, right idea.

Oh my bad, it was a different fake story you fell for.

[Tgo01]

Here is a video I'm sure Keller doesn't want to see:

https://twitter.com/chrisbergPOVNOW/status/1247680994821509121?s=20

tl;dw: Doctor says if an elderly woman comes into the hospital with pneumonia and dies of pneumonia, and she was never given a test for Wuhan Flu, but she was around her son who later tested positive for Wuhan Flu, then the state told him to classify that death as from Wuhan Flu, not pneumonia.

Are you done defending this shit now, Keller, or do you got more fight in you on a losing argument? There is absolutely no reason we should just be ASSUMING a person in such a case died of Wuhan Flu. Now should we have a completely different stat that we are tracking, people who died who might have been infected by someone with whom they had close contact who tested positive for Wuhan Flu? Sure, why not.

[Seran]

Oh my bad, it was a different fake story you fell for.

Not a fake story at all, actually the CDC travel advisories and news releases all confirm the administration was aware in December. Reuters just has better information about December, I wasn't aware of the ABCNews article until you posted it, but it's interesting

[Tgo01]

Not a fake story at all, actually the CDC travel advisories and news releases all confirm the administration was aware in December. Reuters just has better information about December, I wasn't aware of the ABCNews article until you posted it, but it's interesting

What was the reasoning in YOUR story for why Trump should have cut travel from China way back in December? More "anonymous sources" about a top secret report?

[Seran]

What was the reasoning in YOUR story for why Trump should have cut travel from China way back in December? More "anonymous sources" about a top secret report?

Because of the Chinese Ministry of Health's communique to the US in December regarding their outbreak, followed by their health ministry director's meeting with the CDC.

[Tgo01]

Because of the Chinese Ministry of Health's communique to the US in December regarding their outbreak, followed by their health ministry director's meeting with the CDC.

The Chinese government, who until almost February was telling the world humans couldn't even transmit this virus, was telling/implying to the US government that the US should shut down travel from China in December?

It's not the fakest of news I've seen, but it's up there.

[Tgo01]

The WHO is such a joke.

The virus originated in China. China lied to the world for weeks about the virus.
The WHO praises China for doing such a good job in containing this virus, you know the containment that worked so well it has infected nearly every country in the world with over a million cases? Yeah.

China literally accuses the US military of introducing the virus into their country as some form of bio-terrorism attack.
WHO is silent.

Trump says The WHO failed the world and is thinking of suspending funding.
WHO director the very next day: Worry about saving your own people! Don't politicize this virus!!!!

[Seran]

The WHO is such a joke.

The virus originated in China. China lied to the world for weeks about the virus.
The WHO praises China for doing such a good job in containing this virus, you know the containment that worked so well it has infected nearly every country in the world with over a million cases? Yeah.

China literally accuses the US military of introducing the virus into their country as some form of bio-terrorism attack.
WHO is silent.

Trump says The WHO failed the world and is thinking of suspending funding.
WHO director the very next day: Worry about saving your own people! Don't politicize this virus!!!!

You're not entirely wrong there. I understand the President's knee jerk reaction to withhold funding, I don't wholly agree with it, but I'd get behind his using it as leverage to force the director, Dr Tedros to resign.

[Tgo01]

The director of WHO is also claiming that calls for him to resign are racist.

I see the Democrat's playbook of screaming racist at the drop of the hat has reached world organizations now.

WHO leadership failed the world.
World: Hey resign and let a non-Chinese boot licker lead for a change.
WHO director: You're only saying that cause I'm black!!

[~Rocktar~]

The director of WHO is also claiming that calls for him to resign are racist.

I see the Democrat's playbook of screaming racist at the drop of the hat has reached world organizations now.

WHO leadership failed the world.
World: Hey resign and let a non-Chinese boot licker lead for a change.
WHO director: You're only saying that cause I'm black!!

Right on schedule.

[Seizer]

Something interesting to read.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/?itm_campaign=headline-testing-coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin&itm_medium=headline&itm_source=nationalreview&itm_content=Has%20Sweden%20Found%20the%20Right%20S olution%20to%20the%20Coronavirus%3F&itm_term=Has%20Sweden%20Found%20the%20Right%20Solu tion%20to%20the%20Coronavirus%3F

[Risen]

Good read.

[Seran]

The director of WHO is also claiming that calls for him to resign are racist.

I see the Democrat's playbook of screaming racist at the drop of the hat has reached world organizations now.

WHO leadership failed the world.
World: Hey resign and let a non-Chinese boot licker lead for a change.
WHO director: You're only saying that cause I'm black!!

Race has nothing to do with being a gullible idiot. QED

[Fortybox]

Something interesting to read.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/?itm_campaign=headline-testing-coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin&itm_medium=headline&itm_source=nationalreview&itm_content=Has%20Sweden%20Found%20the%20Right%20S olution%20to%20the%20Coronavirus%3F&itm_term=Has%20Sweden%20Found%20the%20Right%20Solu tion%20to%20the%20Coronavirus%3F

Sweden isn't a major tourist destination and only has like 10MM people. Give me a break.

[Gelston]

"Lots of people are rushing to discredit Sweden’s approach, which relies more on calibrated precautions and isolating only the most vulnerable than on imposing a full lockdown."

I'd have preferred that, to be honest.

[Tgo01]

Democrats are once again blocking aid to Americans suffering from this government imposed shutdown in an attempt to secure more giveaways to their special interests and to push for shit they have long wanted.

And as usual the news is doing damage control for Democrats by quickly changing headlines to make it appear as though BOTH parties are to blame.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVK-qL_UYAErffc?format=jpg&name=large

Look at the 180 that headline did in 40 minutes.

[Gelston]

Democrats are once again blocking aid to Americans suffering from this government imposed shutdown in an attempt to secure more giveaways to their special interests and to push for shit they have long wanted.

And as usual the news is doing damage control for Democrats by quickly changing headlines to make it appear as though BOTH parties are to blame.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVK-qL_UYAErffc?format=jpg&name=large

Look at the 180 that headline did in 40 minutes.

I heard they have different headlines based on your location. IT might not be a 180, it might be that both of those headlines are posted at the same time in different areas.

[Seran]

Democrats are once again blocking aid to Americans suffering from this government imposed shutdown in an attempt to secure more giveaways to their special interests and to push for shit they have long wanted.

And as usual the news is doing damage control for Democrats by quickly changing headlines to make it appear as though BOTH parties are to blame.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVK-qL_UYAErffc?format=jpg&name=large

Look at the 180 that headline did in 40 minutes.

It's called negotiation, stop hyperventilating

[Tgo01]

It's called negotiation, stop hyperventilating

If they are "negotiating" how much they want to spend to help American businesses then fine.

If they are "negotiating" that they want to give illegal aliens money or give the Kennedy center tens of millions of more dollars so they can lay even more employees off then fuck that shit.

[Tgo01]

I heard they have different headlines based on your location. IT might not be a 180, it might be that both of those headlines are posted at the same time in different areas.

Stop attempting to be reasonable! Be outraged!

[Fortybox]

It's called negotiation, stop hyperventilating

How many people died as a result of Pelosi/Schumer "negotiating" and therefore delaying relief by a week?

[Keller]

Here is a video I'm sure Keller doesn't want to see:

https://twitter.com/chrisbergPOVNOW/status/1247680994821509121?s=20

tl;dw: Doctor says if an elderly woman comes into the hospital with pneumonia and dies of pneumonia, and she was never given a test for Wuhan Flu, but she was around her son who later tested positive for Wuhan Flu, then the state told him to classify that death as from Wuhan Flu, not pneumonia.

Are you done defending this shit now, Keller, or do you got more fight in you on a losing argument? There is absolutely no reason we should just be ASSUMING a person in such a case died of Wuhan Flu. Now should we have a completely different stat that we are tracking, people who died who might have been infected by someone with whom they had close contact who tested positive for Wuhan Flu? Sure, why not.

What the doctor doesn't mention (and is never questioned about because the media member has a political agenda) is whether the guidelines for that cause of death require COVID-19 symptoms (fever, chills, dry cough, etc). I would bet that it does. And I think we both know why that question wasn't asked.

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, but we didn't DNA test it to see if it is a duck, it's not a duck. Is that your position?

The point is our government failed us and we're not prepared to test people at the volume we need to test people.

[Seran]

How many people died as a result of Pelosi/Schumer "negotiating" and therefore delaying relief by a week?

According to your mindset, people shouldn't actually be dying from a pandemic hoax

[Seran]

If they are "negotiating" how much they want to spend to help American businesses then fine.

If they are "negotiating" that they want to give illegal aliens money or give the Kennedy center tens of millions of more dollars so they can lay even more employees off then fuck that shit.

Republicans want to prioritize the ability of business owner's to pay their mortgages, utilities and their own salaries. Senate Republicans want to destroy oversight by removing requirements that Federal Reserve meetings be documented.

Democrats want to prioritize paid family leave, unemployment expansions, state recovery efforts and healthcare institution grants. House Democrats want to change the inspector general requirements for the Coronavirus Oversight to keep recently fired IGs in their auditor rolls, to circumvent Trump's attempts to destroy transparency and accountability.

[Fortybox]

According to your mindset, people shouldn't actually be dying from a pandemic hoax

Wrong - more people will die to the economic fallout because of this fake pandemic. Pelosi/Schumer delaying relief to families for things like the Kennedy Center (that ended up firing their workers anyways) will come at a cost of American lives.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Republicans want to prioritize the ability of business owner's to pay their mortgages, utilities and their own salaries. Senate Republicans want to destroy oversight by removing requirements that Federal Reserve meetings be documented.

Democrats want to prioritize paid family leave, unemployment expansions, state recovery efforts and healthcare institution grants. House Democrats want to change the inspector general requirements for the Coronavirus Oversight to keep recently fired IGs in their auditor rolls, to circumvent Trump's attempts to destroy transparency and accountability.

Read this aloud to yourself, then guess what political party you are.

[Alfster]

Wrong - more people will die to the economic fallout because of this fake pandemic. Pelosi/Schumer delaying relief to families for things like the Kennedy Center (that ended up firing their workers anyways) will come at a cost of American lives.

You're pretty butt hurt over this - I personally hope you're right, but don't think any data supports what you're saying. Inconsistent reporting methodologies and the failed malaria drug won't get out everything kicking in time. What makes you so sure you're right?

[beldannon5]

Seran sure seems to think everything the democrats want is just for the people and the Republicans just want all the people to die (sure maybe not in those words) But damn

[Gelston]

Seran sure seems to think everything the democrats want is just for the people and the Republicans just want all the people to die (sure maybe not in those words) But damn

He is a brand new Democrat. He doesn't understand that neither party personally gives a shit.

[Seran]

Wrong - more people will die to the economic fallout because of this fake pandemic. Pelosi/Schumer delaying relief to families for things like the Kennedy Center (that ended up firing their workers anyways) will come at a cost of American lives.

That is utter bullshit. Small business owner's have the SBA program already in place which covers two months of operating expenses. Further, no one is going to starve to death because they needed to apply for an SBA loan and even if they were cashless, there are countless safety net programs to provide for immediate needs for survival.

[Fortybox]

That is utter bullshit. Small business owner's have the SBA program already in place which covers two months of operating expenses. Further, no one is going to starve to death because they needed to apply for an SBA loan and even if they were cashless, there are countless safety net programs to provide for immediate needs for survival.

Tell that to the families that could have gotten their stimulus money 7 days ago had Pelosi/Schumer not decided to "negotiate" unrelated things to the fake pandemic.

[Fortybox]

You're pretty butt hurt over this - I personally hope you're right, but don't think any data supports what you're saying. Inconsistent reporting methodologies and the failed malaria drug won't get out everything kicking in time. What makes you so sure you're right?

Um, look at the continual downward revising the "models" are doing. You know, the models that already took social distancing into account already. Tell me, what actually changed?

[Risen]

Um, look at the continual downward revising the "models" are doing. You know, the models that already took social distancing into account already. Tell me, what actually changed?

Sure.

http://www.healthdata.org/sites/default/files/files/Projects/COVID/Estimation_update_040520_1.pdf

[Fortybox]

Sure.

http://www.healthdata.org/sites/default/files/files/Projects/COVID/Estimation_update_040520_1.pdf

They had to change and/or update their assumptions...because their previous assumptions were not correct. Hence, the models revised down the total impact.

They were wrong and now have to revise their story. It wouldn't surprise me this gets revised down to similar deaths we would expect from the flu.

[Risen]

They had to change and/or update their assumptions...because their previous assumptions were not correct. Hence, the models revised down the total impact.

They were wrong and now have to revise their story. It wouldn't surprise me this gets revised down to similar deaths we would expect from the flu.

That's actually not what the model change document says. And dirty little secret, they modified the floor and thereby lowered the overall projections. But they raised the ceiling range, at the same time. They also attempted to account for the spread of various rates of infection / death by state (and country, countries didn't exist in the analysis as published prior to April 5) which accounts for the flattening of the resource need to some degree.

It wouldn't surprise me if next year, we feel comfortable with the rate being somewhere just over or in the range of the flu, when we can account for variables we cannot see today and when we have treatments and vaccine. Yet, as it stands today, with what we know and with projections as stated (even downward revision), we're at 5.97% worldwide (death / total cases) and 3.55% US (death / total cases). The last time I shared these generally available stats, it was just a shade over 2% US.

[Fortybox]

That's actually not what the model change document says. And dirty little secret, they modified the floor and thereby lowered the overall projections. But they raised the ceiling range, at the same time. They also attempted to account for the spread of various rates of infection / death by state (and country, countries didn't exist in the analysis as published prior to April 5) which accounts for the flattening of the resource need to some degree.

It wouldn't surprise me if next year, we feel comfortable with the rate being somewhere just over or in the range of the flu, when we can account for variables we cannot see today and when we have treatments and vaccine. Yet, as it stands today, with what we know and with projections as stated (even downward revision), we're at 5.97% worldwide (death / total cases) and 3.55% US (death / total cases). The last time I shared these generally available stats, it was just a shade over 2% US.

It is not "total" cases. There are people who have this who have not been tested. The 3.55% number is overstated.

And you are wrong - they made changes in the methodology and in weights, etc. Think about what you are saying...you even acknowledge it is a "model change" document.

[Risen]

I've covered the ground a couple of times, settling on death over cases because that's what we know. I did this despite the fact that deaths / (resolved cases - deaths) is a much more accurate statistic because we really didn't know total cases - but that was rejected. Then I dropped from world to US because of the stated belief that US would perform so much better.

Great news, though! When total cases has the data that you are speculatively suggesting get counted right - now - damn - it, I'll use that same number (total cases) and my death / total cases will magically adjust. I will simply continue to go with the data we have and leave speculation to the politicians.

I'm not sure what you mean by telling me to think about what I'm saying. But I have a request:

If you have a better model, share your sources and put it up! I truly would appreciate it! I really am tired of looking at this same picture that pretty much assures we're going exactly where I feared we would. Show me with data!

[Parkbandit]

Republicans want to prioritize the ability of business owner's to pay their mortgages, utilities and their own salaries. Senate Republicans want to destroy oversight by removing requirements that Federal Reserve meetings be documented.

Democrats want to prioritize paid family leave, unemployment expansions, state recovery efforts and healthcare institution grants. House Democrats want to change the inspector general requirements for the Coronavirus Oversight to keep recently fired IGs in their auditor rolls, to circumvent Trump's attempts to destroy transparency and accountability.

Remember when the Democrats were holding up shit for a list of retarded things you originally denied.. then once tgo01 proved it was accurate, you hopped on board with their position?

[Parkbandit]

That is utter bullshit. Small business owner's have the SBA program already in place which covers two months of operating expenses. Further, no one is going to starve to death because they needed to apply for an SBA loan and even if they were cashless, there are countless safety net programs to provide for immediate needs for survival.

I'm still waiting for that SBA loan............................

[DoctorUnne]

The CV will likely end up not being as bad as a lot of people predicted/feared, but I think it's hard to argue 1) it's no worse than the flu, and 2) it wouldn't have been much worse without the social distancing measures. Hospital ICUs in numerous diverse cities and countries with different governments and political systems worldwide got overwhelmed with intubated patients needing oxygen to survive, and that doesn't happen with the flu. NYC needed to open up a hospital in a convention center and they're putting ICU beds in the hospital lobby at Mt. Sinai. And it's not like these people don't need to be hospitalized. In fact, going to the hospital is pretty much the last thing anyone would want to do right now unless they absolutely have to.

On the social distancing, you can see it pretty easily from the data. The states getting hit the hardest with the most cases and deaths are the states that have the densest population concentrations. NY (NYC), NJ, CA (SF/LA), MA, etc. The states that have the fewest cases are the states with the least dense populations (AK, WY, ND, MT). Within states, the hotbeds are places like nursing homes and prisons with forced close contact. It's a virus. Has nothing to do with politics. I'm a Republican.

Where it does get interesting and becomes much more of a gray area is what is the right policy? The public health and economic forces are working in opposite directions. Keep everything open and the economy will be fine but maybe 500K or 1M people die from the CV. Why 500K or 1M if the mortality rate is only 0.2% or 0.5%? Well one if half the population gets it 500K is still only 0.3%, and that's still 10x deadlier than the flu. The mortality rate may not be high but it's contagious af because you spread it easily and while asymptomatic. And two the mortality rate goes up the more people who get it at once because you don't have enough resources for optimal care. That's why the death rate is so high in Italy. So that's why we shut down - to prevent the HC system from getting overwhelmed and the mortality rate from being higher. But then instead you get a vicious recession because entire sectors of the economy implode. That's obviously not good either. The longer we stay shut, the easier it is on the hospitals and the harder it is on the economy. At some point, the economic pain will outweigh the risk of more people dying.

That's the social/ethics/political dilemma that is so polarizing. Especially considering different groups are affected with each choice. Shutting the economy hurts the young, healthy and independent more. Opening the economy means more sick, elderly and dependent people die. So you can pretty much see how the politics of it are playing out in these discussions...

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm still waiting for that SBA loan............................

So is my sister.

[Tgo01]

Things are pretty stable for April 8th.

On April 8th the number of new daily infections was 1,396, dropping from 33,331 on April 7th to 31,935 on April 8th.

New daily deaths also dropped slightly, going from 1,970 to 1,940.

NY and NJ still are disproportionately represented in the number of new infection but it's dropping slightly. NY and NJ accounted for 37% of all new infections.

The share of the number of new deaths for NY and NJ ticked up slightly, but that's actually to be expected as the number of new cases taper off. NY and NJ accounted for 54% of all new deaths.

As always it's much too early to tell but the number of new infections in the US has been pretty stable for a week now. The number of new deaths shot up just yesterday but the number of deaths dropping is going to lag behind the number of new infections dropping as the people who got sick a week or more ago are unfortunately now passing away.

April 9th:
33,536 new cases, up 1,601 from April 8th's 31,935. Up slightly but still pretty stable.
1,900 new deaths, down 40 from April 8th's 1,940 new deaths.

NY and NJ continue to make up the bulk of new infections and deaths.

NY and NJ had 42% of the new cases and 53% of the new deaths.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

1900 deaths a day seems pretty high. Like, I always thought the murders in Chicago over a weekend of 20-30 were high...

[Risen]

Well, in fairness - it feels high because it's being blown way out of proportion.

I don't agree with the "it's just the flu!" crowd, but I don't agree with the "it's the Rapture" crowd, either. Sensationalism pisses me off, doesn't matter which direction it swings.

When we do get a vaccine - I'm going to very seriously reconsider my position on tolerance of antivaxer positions.

[Seran]

I'm still waiting for that SBA loan............................

Who did you apply through as your underwriter. Wells Fargo or a more regional or local bank? Most local banks are still awaiting underwriting criteria. Largely only Wells Fargo and US Bank are fronting the capital early.

[Tgo01]

1900 deaths a day seems pretty high. Like, I always thought the murders in Chicago over a weekend of 20-30 were high...

It is, but at the same time on average almost 8k Americans die every single day. This is on a consistent basis, 24/7/365.

This virus is most likely at its peak right now with the number of deaths per day dropping and reaching almost 0 in a month or two.

[Parkbandit]

Who did you apply through as your underwriter. Wells Fargo or a more regional or local bank? Most local banks are still awaiting underwriting criteria. Largely only Wells Fargo and US Bank are fronting the capital early.

Bank of America because I already have a working relationship with them for the past 10 years.

[Archigeek]

1900 deaths a day seems pretty high. Like, I always thought the murders in Chicago over a weekend of 20-30 were high...

Higher than any other cause of death in the US, edging out heart disease by a smidge.

[Seran]

Bank of America because I already have a working relationship with them for the past 10 years.

Ah, sorry to hear that you're having trouble. BofA hasn't released too much information about the processes, but announced they're processing apps so long as you don't have any open business loans with other banks. Also, the SBA was given initial direction about people with delinquent child support obligations, I'm sure that doesn't apply to you, but if you know anyone in that situation, talk to the case managing office about a stipulation to defer payment.

[Parkbandit]

Ah, sorry to hear that you're having trouble. BofA hasn't released too much information about the processes, but announced they're processing apps so long as you don't have any open business loans with other banks. Also, the SBA was given initial direction about people with delinquent child support obligations, I'm sure that doesn't apply to you, but if you know anyone in that situation, talk to the case managing office about a stipulation to defer payment.

Yea, no loans and since I'm still married to my children's mother, no child support.

[Keller]

The CV will likely end up not being as bad as a lot of people predicted/feared, but I think it's hard to argue 1) it's no worse than the flu, and 2) it wouldn't have been much worse without the social distancing measures. Hospital ICUs in numerous diverse cities and countries with different governments and political systems worldwide got overwhelmed with intubated patients needing oxygen to survive, and that doesn't happen with the flu. NYC needed to open up a hospital in a convention center and they're putting ICU beds in the hospital lobby at Mt. Sinai. And it's not like these people don't need to be hospitalized. In fact, going to the hospital is pretty much the last thing anyone would want to do right now unless they absolutely have to.

On the social distancing, you can see it pretty easily from the data. The states getting hit the hardest with the most cases and deaths are the states that have the densest population concentrations. NY (NYC), NJ, CA (SF/LA), MA, etc. The states that have the fewest cases are the states with the least dense populations (AK, WY, ND, MT). Within states, the hotbeds are places like nursing homes and prisons with forced close contact. It's a virus. Has nothing to do with politics. I'm a Republican.

Where it does get interesting and becomes much more of a gray area is what is the right policy? The public health and economic forces are working in opposite directions. Keep everything open and the economy will be fine but maybe 500K or 1M people die from the CV. Why 500K or 1M if the mortality rate is only 0.2% or 0.5%? Well one if half the population gets it 500K is still only 0.3%, and that's still 10x deadlier than the flu. The mortality rate may not be high but it's contagious af because you spread it easily and while asymptomatic. And two the mortality rate goes up the more people who get it at once because you don't have enough resources for optimal care. That's why the death rate is so high in Italy. So that's why we shut down - to prevent the HC system from getting overwhelmed and the mortality rate from being higher. But then instead you get a vicious recession because entire sectors of the economy implode. That's obviously not good either. The longer we stay shut, the easier it is on the hospitals and the harder it is on the economy. At some point, the economic pain will outweigh the risk of more people dying.

That's the social/ethics/political dilemma that is so polarizing. Especially considering different groups are affected with each choice. Shutting the economy hurts the young, healthy and independent more. Opening the economy means more sick, elderly and dependent people die. So you can pretty much see how the politics of it are playing out in these discussions...

Great post. Agree with pretty much everything, except I'm an independent and not a Republican.

[Tgo01]

Higher than any other cause of death in the US, edging out heart disease by a smidge.

And you accuse me of being misleading.

You're taking the yearly deaths from other causes of death and dividing them by 365 and taking the Wuhan Virus number of deaths and using the highest daily figures to conclude that the Wuhan Virus is killing more Americans than any other cause.

The experts are now predicting 60k deaths in the US, divide that by 365 and we are at an average of 164 deaths a day. For reference accidents (like someone slipping off of their roof when putting up Christmas lights) accounts for 466 deaths a day on average.

Also let's revisit what I just said, the experts are now predicting 60k deaths in the US. Just a week ago these same experts were saying 120k-200k IF WE KEPT THE CURRENT RESTRICTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS IN PLACE. This means that their worst case scenario (we keep everyone locked up, close down all non-essential businesses, social distancing, etc.) predicated UP TO (so we can avoid the upwards debate again) 200k deaths and that figure has already been cut down to 60k in a week.

Meaning Trump is either saving lives by the millions (original estimates were up to 2+ million US deaths), or shutting down the entire country was just hyped up fear by the left and the media in order to try and make Trump look bad by tanking the economy.

Which explanation are you leaning towards, Archigeek?

[Tgo01]

except I'm an independent

You funny guy.

[Keller]

You funny guy.

You being to the right of Genghis Khan doesn't make me a Democrat.

That's not how this works.

[Tgo01]

You being to the right of Genghis Khan doesn't make me a Democrat.

That's not how this works.

I have no problem admitting I'm a Republican and a staunch Trump supporter. Probably the biggest Orange Man fan on the entire PC.

It just amuses me when far leftists such as yourself can't just admit it but instead want to try and appear more neutral by claiming you're an Independent.

Do you think we have all forgotten your I-hope-Republicans-die-because-I-don't-like-their-politics post?

Be honest here, Keller, you were and probably still are a Sanders supporter right?

[Keller]

I have no problem admitting I'm a Republican and a staunch Trump supporter. Probably the biggest Orange Man fan on the entire PC.

It just amuses me when far leftists such as yourself can't just admit it but instead want to try and appear more neutral by claiming you're an Independent.

Be honest here, Keller, you were and probably still are a Sanders supporter right?

Biden. Would have preferred Pete, but he dropped out before I got to vote.

[Tgo01]

Biden. Would have preferred Pete, but he dropped out before I got to vote.

You were a Sanders Jr. fan.

[rolfard]

Lost my sense of smell yesterday, loss sense of taste today. No other symptoms nor fever. Weirdest thing...

[Tgo01]

Lost my sense of smell yesterday, loss sense of taste today. No other symptoms nor fever. Weirdest thing...

From what I understand loss of taste and smell are the early symptoms. Hopefully you don't develop other symptoms.

How do you think you got it? Like do you know someone else with the virus or you must have gotten it at work or at the store?

[rolfard]

I've been working from home since March 13th but regular visits to grocery store means I'm fairly exposed.

[Tgo01]

I've been working from home since March 13th but regular visits to grocery store means I'm fairly exposed.

That's a scary thought you got it from shopping. Where do you live?

[Parkbandit]

Biden. Would have preferred Pete, but he dropped out before I got to vote.

Didn't you believe Warren was the best candidate?

She's a far leftist. Not an Independent.

Please don't doxx my kids, bro.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I've been working from home since March 13th but regular visits to grocery store means I'm fairly exposed.

Why regular visits?

[Stolis]

Minnesota doctor/state Senator was interviewed yesterday and he brought up something frustrating that's kinda been mentioned here. If a person dies and has Covid 19, it's listed as the cause of death. One can debate if that truly was the cause of death or not or if it helped speed things along, sure. Fair argument. However... He also said and used the example of if a person gets hit by a bus and dies, but they have Covid 19... Cause of death was Covid 19. Well that's weird and doesn't really add up, so why would that be the case? Oh wait.. Maybe this little thing.

"Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do.

Based on some of the absurd medical bills people can get, is anyone actually surprised by this?

Full article for reference: https://www.foxnews.com/media/physician-blasts-cdc-coronavirus-death-count-guidelines

[Archigeek]

Minnesota doctor/state Senator was interviewed yesterday and he brought up something frustrating that's kinda been mentioned here. If a person dies and has Covid 19, it's listed as the cause of death. One can debate if that truly was the cause of death or not or if it helped speed things along, sure. Fair argument. However... He also said and used the example of if a person gets hit by a bus and dies, but they have Covid 19... Cause of death was Covid 19. Well that's weird and doesn't really add up, so why would that be the case? Oh wait.. Maybe this little thing.

"Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do.

Based on some of the absurd medical bills people can get, is anyone actually surprised by this?

Full article for reference: https://www.foxnews.com/media/physician-blasts-cdc-coronavirus-death-count-guidelines

Except that's not what is happening. This is about legit comorbidity, not people getting hit by a bus. That's how i see it anyway. I'm sure the memo he's talking about is publicly available, so i guess we can read it ourselves.

[Keller]

Minnesota doctor/state Senator was interviewed yesterday and he brought up something frustrating that's kinda been mentioned here. If a person dies and has Covid 19, it's listed as the cause of death. One can debate if that truly was the cause of death or not or if it helped speed things along, sure. Fair argument. However... He also said and used the example of if a person gets hit by a bus and dies, but they have Covid 19... Cause of death was Covid 19. Well that's weird and doesn't really add up, so why would that be the case? Oh wait.. Maybe this little thing.

"Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do.

Based on some of the absurd medical bills people can get, is anyone actually surprised by this?

Full article for reference: https://www.foxnews.com/media/physician-blasts-cdc-coronavirus-death-count-guidelines

Listened to the clip. His bus hypothetical didn't line up with the stated standards of the CDC guidelines.

If a death certificate listed COVID-19 as the cause of death in that instance, I imagine it would be insurance fraud.

I think the doctor makes interesting points that we should be discussing. I think there is definitely a lot of gray area for what we should be doing as cause of death for people that die from ARDS with COVID-19 symptoms, but never get tested. As I've articulated in this thread, I think that is a COVID-19 death and not "pneumonia," but reasonable people could disagree and it's an interesting topic of discussion.

But he didn't do his credibility any favors with that bus hypothetical. That was just pure click bait nonsense.

[Methais]

Republicans want to prioritize the ability of business owner's to pay their mortgages, utilities and their own salaries. Senate Republicans want to destroy oversight by removing requirements that Federal Reserve meetings be documented.

Democrats want to prioritize paid family leave, unemployment expansions, state recovery efforts and healthcare institution grants. House Democrats want to change the inspector general requirements for the Coronavirus Oversight to keep recently fired IGs in their auditor rolls, to circumvent Trump's attempts to destroy transparency and accountability.

Don't forget about how they are/were trying to stuff some bullshit in there to allow mail in votes for federal elections.

Because that's totally what's relevant right now and doesn't have anything to do with an agenda, right?

[Seran]

His bitching about Medicare reimbursements comes off as a bit whiney. Dude, chances are someone coming in with Covid-19 will infect others within your hospital and the funding will help offset the resulting costs and services.

[Seran]

Don't forget about how they are/were trying to stuff some bullshit in there to allow mail in votes for federal elections.

Because that's totally what's relevant right now and doesn't have anything to do with an agenda, right?

What doesn't voting by mail have to do with a highly contagious coronavirus which would spread like wildfire in packed polling places? No, the crying being done is purely by Republican's who see a threat in allowing more participation in elections. The President said as much at his rally.

[Tgo01]

What doesn't voting by mail have to do with a highly contagious coronavirus which would spread like wildfire in packed polling places?

First of all the elections are several months away, if we're all still sheltering at home by then we might as well just forget about elections because there probably won't be a government left by then.

Second of all even if people haven't revolted by then and are still sheltering in their houses while slowly going broke, then the states are abject failures if they can't allow for social distancing at polling places.

It's silly enough as is that we are shutting the whole country down for almost 2 months, no need to plan ahead to do this for the rest of the year because I can assure you people won't stand for this shit much longer. Everyone I know has already lost their patience with this shit, even my most liberal of friends who blames all of this shit on Trump.

[Seran]

Assuming a six foot minimum distance requirement, how precisely do you expect physical polling location's around the nation to process 60-100m ballots in November? It's impossible, either the country needs to get better and relax social distancing guidelines or require states to allow ballots by mail.

Not doing the election is a violation of article 2, section 1 of the US Constitution.

[Tgo01]

Assuming a six foot minimum distance requirement, how precisely do you expect physical polling location's around the nation to process 60-100m ballots in November? It's impossible, either the country needs to get better and relax social distancing guidelines or require states to allow ballots by mail.

Are you under the impression everyone literally votes at the exact same time at the exact same polling place or something?

[Gelston]

Easily enough, between early voting lasting for about a week and the polling location being open for about 14 hours, I have never even had a line. If your voting districts are created correctly, you shouldn't have a line either.

[Seran]

Are you under the impression everyone literally votes at the exact same time at the exact same polling place or something?

Having been a volunteer poll worker in the last two elections, I'll tell you that from 7:00-8:00 when most polls open there are usually 20-40 people lined up at my local fire station. It takes about thirty minutes to get through that like alone. Now multiply that by dozens, or hundreds of polling places in your typical city, but require those 20-40 people to line up halfway around the block.

That's a recipe for low voter turnout, even suppression. Which of course is exactly what you want I imagine.

[Tgo01]

Having been a volunteer poll worker in the last two elections, I'll tell you that from 7:00-8:00 when most polls open there are usually 20-40 people lined up at my local fire station. It takes about thirty minutes to get through that like alone. Now multiply that by dozens, or hundreds of polling places in your typical city, but require those 20-40 people to line up halfway around the block.

That's a recipe for low voter turnout, even suppression. Which of course is exactly what you want I imagine.

Are you suggesting if a line of 40 people is normally 40 feet long, but will now be about 240 feet long, that it's going to somehow make the line move slower?

[Gelston]

Having been a volunteer poll worker in the last two elections, I'll tell you that from 7:00-8:00 when most polls open there are usually 20-40 people lined up at my local fire station. It takes about thirty minutes to get through that like alone. Now multiply that by dozens, or hundreds of polling places in your typical city, but require those 20-40 people to line up halfway around the block.

That's a recipe for low voter turnout, even suppression. Which of course is exactly what you want I imagine.

So set up more polling locations. Problem solved.

[Tgo01]

So set up more polling locations. Problem solved.

That's just crazy talk! Clearly we have to use this virus as an excuse to give Democrats their ultimate wet dream.

[Seran]

So set up more polling locations. Problem solved.

That's impossible due to the number of county elections workers, volunteers and supplies

[Seran]

Are you suggesting if a line of 40 people is normally 40 feet long, but will now be about 240 feet long, that it's going to somehow make the line move slower?

Due to the need to sterilize voting machines and writing elements, yes. Much longer

[Gelston]

That's impossible due to the number of county elections workers, volunteers and supplies

Yeah, I doubt it is impossible. I bet mail in would take even more supplies and workers in the first place because it would be a lot more volume and a complete retooling of entire districts.

[Parkbandit]

What doesn't voting by mail have to do with a highly contagious coronavirus which would spread like wildfire in packed polling places? No, the crying being done is purely by Republican's who see a threat in allowing more participation in elections. The President said as much at his rally.

Voting by mail is probably the single worst attempt by the Democrats to steal elections that they have ever come up with.

Has nothing to do with participation.. has everything to do with participation by people who are not allowed to vote (felons, illegals, dead people, etc..)

[Methais]

Seran sure seems to think everything the democrats want is just for the people and the Republicans just want all the people to die (sure maybe not in those words) But damn

Well he's extremely stupid, so...

[Methais]

Well, in fairness - it feels high because it's being blown way out of proportion.

I don't agree with the "it's just the flu!" crowd, but I don't agree with the "it's the Rapture" crowd, either. Sensationalism pisses me off, doesn't matter which direction it swings.

When we do get a vaccine - I'm going to very seriously reconsider my position on tolerance of antivaxer positions.

https://i.imgur.com/xpzcIXg.png

[Archigeek]

So set up more polling locations. Problem solved.

They were unable to do this earlier this week, and actually had far fewer polling stations due illness and high risk of illness amongst election judges, (most election judges are retired people at high risk). Milwaukee had 5 polling stations for the entire city, with wait times of 2.5 hours being common. Imagine how long that line is with a 2.5 hour wait. Now imagine how bad it is in a presidential election with 5x as many voters.

If you think Covid19 will be completely gone by the first Tuesday in November you're living in fantasy land. Hopefully it has subsided, but planning to reduce in person voting seems pretty prudent to me. Otherwise we'll get another wave of cases and be right back to spending a fortune on social distancing.

[Neveragain]

Gavin Newsom declares California as a nation state.

I guess California will not be participating in the US elections.

[Tgo01]

If you think Covid19 will be completely gone by the first Tuesday in November you're living in fantasy land. Hopefully it has subsided, but planning to reduce in person voting seems pretty prudent to me. Otherwise we'll get another wave of cases and be right back to spending a fortune on social distancing.

This is just nuts. If you're telling me we won't be able to go to movies, stadiums, or anything of that nature by November then just fuck it. We might as well live like hermits for the rest of our existence.

I was all for the two week lockdown, and I'm reluctantly going along with the lockdown until May 1st, but after that we might as well just roll the dice and see what happens. Are we just going to sit in our homes for months on end, only going places the government "allows" us to go to for the rest of the year?

Are we going to sit in our homes while our government overlords tell us we can't even leave our houses to vote anymore and instead they'll send us a ballot in the mail so we can choose the next dictator who will force us to stay at home for months more?

Pretty amazing how Americans just willingly gave up almost all of their rights because a bunch of unelected people told us it was in our best interest.

I read a story yesterday where Dr. Fauci said Americans MIGHT be able to take summer vacations this year. Might? Who the fuck made this guy king? This same guy who on January 21st said this virus wasn't anything Americans had to be concerned with, and now 2 months later he's telling us we won't even be able to take vacations this year because he says so?

Then we have people like Governor Cuomo who was demanding 40k ventilators and warning his state was going to be short like 200k beds or some such shit. Experts are now saying NY has reached their peak and they never needed even a fraction of those ventilators and they were never short on hospital beds.

If people want to walk around with face masks on for the rest of their lives and avoid social interactions as much as possible after May I say go for it. But this talk of extending this stay at home and outlawing large gatherings until the end of the year is crazy.

[Stolis]

Listened to the clip. His bus hypothetical didn't line up with the stated standards of the CDC guidelines.

If a death certificate listed COVID-19 as the cause of death in that instance, I imagine it would be insurance fraud.

I think the doctor makes interesting points that we should be discussing. I think there is definitely a lot of gray area for what we should be doing as cause of death for people that die from ARDS with COVID-19 symptoms, but never get tested. As I've articulated in this thread, I think that is a COVID-19 death and not "pneumonia," but reasonable people could disagree and it's an interesting topic of discussion.

But he didn't do his credibility any favors with that bus hypothetical. That was just pure click bait nonsense.

Well the big question to me would be what did the autopsy say with regards to cause of death? Was it a 95 year old woman for example, who died of heart failure after a documented history of heart disease? That's not a Covid related death, IMO. She died cause one, old as fuck. Two, Heart failure. Second point.. Are they doing autopsies right now? Legit question, I haven't looked it up.


His bitching about Medicare reimbursements comes off as a bit whiney. Dude, chances are someone coming in with Covid-19 will infect others within your hospital and the funding will help offset the resulting costs and services.

That's an assumption I'm not even shocked you made. His point is, the hospital makes more if they label it a Covid case than not. Hospitals are in it to make money, this should be no surprise. I can bill it as a Covid diagnosis and treatment and make several thousand more than I would if not? Do you not think this happens all the time? Hell when we had a kid, we didn't pay a dime for it or the hospital stay. I think there was a rider added to our policy a year prior to trying that covered the hospital per day cost. Insurance covered it. Well, if insurance is going to cover a 13k Covid stay? Ring that bitch up. That's essentially what he's saying.

[Tgo01]

Gavin Newsom declares California as a nation state.

I guess California will not be participating in the US elections.

I just looked this up after reading your post.

Things must be going pretty well in California for Newsom to be reverting back to "Orange Man Bad!" mode.

[Methais]

Yea, no loans and since I'm still married to my children's mother, no child support.

Small Business Owners Hung Out to Dry by Government Loan Programs (https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/small-business-owners-hung-out-to-dry-by-government-loan-programs/2105382/)

Don’t worry though because Seran said it’s easy to get.

[Keller]

Are they doing autopsies right now? Legit question, I haven't looked it up.

Last I read they are not testing cadavers for COVID-19. That makes sense given that we can't even test all of the live patients.

[Neveragain]

I just looked this up after reading your post.

Things must be going pretty well in California for Newsom to be reverting back to "Orange Man Bad!" mode.

I like to entertain the scenario of a California nation after the US Navy pulls out and they have their electric and water resources diverted by the neighboring states.

[Tgo01]

This is just nuts. If you're telling me we won't be able to go to movies, stadiums, or anything of that nature by November then just fuck it. We might as well live like hermits for the rest of our existence.

I was all for the two week lockdown, and I'm reluctantly going along with the lockdown until May 1st, but after that we might as well just roll the dice and see what happens. Are we just going to sit in our homes for months on end, only going places the government "allows" us to go to for the rest of the year?

Are we going to sit in our homes while our government overlords tell us we can't even leave our houses to vote anymore and instead they'll send us a ballot in the mail so we can choose the next dictator who will force us to stay at home for months more?

Pretty amazing how Americans just willingly gave up almost all of their rights because a bunch of unelected people told us it was in our best interest.

I read a story yesterday where Dr. Fauci said Americans MIGHT be able to take summer vacations this year. Might? Who the fuck made this guy king? This same guy who on January 21st said this virus wasn't anything Americans had to be concerned with, and now 2 months later he's telling us we won't even be able to take vacations this year because he says so?

Then we have people like Governor Cuomo who was demanding 40k ventilators and warning his state was going to be short like 200k beds or some such shit. Experts are now saying NY has reached their peak and they never needed even a fraction of those ventilators and they were never short on hospital beds.

If people want to walk around with face masks on for the rest of their lives and avoid social interactions as much as possible after May I say go for it. But this talk of extending this stay at home and outlawing large gatherings until the end of the year is crazy.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/anthony-fauci-certificates-of-immunity-to-coronavirus-being-discussed

Look at this shit. Now comrade Fauci is talking about having people carry "certificates of immunity" that would presumably allow be required to show a police officer to prove they are "allowed" to go outside and work and maybe go to the beach if they fucking feel like it.

This shit is getting crazy fast.

[Stolis]

Last I read they are not testing cadavers for COVID-19. That makes sense given that we can't even test all of the live patients.

Okay. So hypothetically, you could get hit by a bus, I call it death by Covid, and we're not even gonna check the cadaver to confirm it. How are they gonna know any better if you're just tossed in a bag and into a mass grave like the one built in NY?

[Methais]

For reference accidents (like someone slipping off of their roof when putting up Christmas lights) accounts for 466 deaths a day on average.

If someone dies from this but it is also suspected that they might possibly have a chance of also having Coronavirus, then they'll say he died of Coronavirus.

[Tgo01]

If someone dies from this but it is also suspected that they might possibly have a chance of also having Coronavirus, then they'll say he died of Coronavirus.

"A neighbor heard him cough right before he fell off the roof. Sure sounds like Wuhan Flu to me."

[Neveragain]

Small Business Owners Hung Out to Dry by Government Loan Programs (https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/small-business-owners-hung-out-to-dry-by-government-loan-programs/2105382/)

Don’t worry though because Seran said it’s easy to get.

Iowa was granted 24 million. 500 business's have received 10 million of those funds thus far, over 10 thousand business's have applied. You do the math, lol.

[Seran]

Gavin Newsom declares California as a nation state.

I guess California will not be participating in the US elections.

It would be fantastic if California were granted the right to leave the Union. Because of it's strategic resources, it'll never happen.

[Methais]

Biden. Would have preferred Pete, but he dropped out before I got to vote.

lol Biden

"Yes I think an old man who is very obviously suffering from dementia should be leader of the free world. I don't see how anything could go wrong." -You