The party of joy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
The party of soy.
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The party of joy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
The party of soy.
Much like everything else they espouse, they are liars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
They aren't loving and they certainly aren't tolerant.
They are miserable and just want everyone else to be miserable like them.
Quote:
While Tesla was plunging, Musk's social network X was dealing with what he called a "massive" and "coordinated" cyberattack, with tens of thousands of users reporting outages throughout the day. In a Fox Business interview, he said the attack was coming from computers in the area of Ukraine.
More...
Let's think logically. The servers of a company owned by Musk were attacked by computers that appeared to be in the vicinity of Ukraine. Who would have an incentive to launch such an attack?
THE JUDEAN PEOPLE'S FRONT!?!?!?!?!?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
SkynetQuote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
I knew Trump would abandon the kidnapped children, who have no economic benefit to offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
Quote:
One of Ukraine’s central demands for any peace deal is the return of Ukrainian children who have allegedly been the victims of a Russian program of coerced adoption. Russia has claimed this program is a humanitarian one that benevolently adopts Ukrainian kids and makes them citizens. But under President Biden, the State Department strongly condemned it as the “forcible transfer and deportation of Ukraine’s children to camps promoting indoctrination in Russia.”
Indeed, as The New York Times reported, Russia has not just transferred children from Ukrainian orphanages to Russian camps; it has also taken kids whose relatives want them back. The Times noted that the abductees number in the “thousands,” and concluded: “This mass transfer of children is a potential war crime.”
More...
Quote:
This transfer to Europol has been interrupted by the Trump-Rubio State Department’s cancellation of the award, according to that source and a Democratic congressional aide with knowledge of the contract. This sort of tracking involves extremely complex and technologically sophisticated work, and the evidence itself—which is essential to proving the abductions—is highly complicated and must be moved via secure channels.
But now the transfer won’t happen, potentially making it harder to ultimately track down and bring back the kids and less likely that the repatriations happen at all, the first source tells me. In a statement,* Yale confirmed the contract’s cancellation but declined to comment directly on the State Department’s decision.
Your parents wish they abandoned you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
The good news it's still not too late.
Sounds like you are projecting your own daddy issues, again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
Wall Street isn't the only place where people have realized that Trump is a bully who always backs down when faced with a strong opponent.
Quote:
RT, a Russian state-controlled media outlet, is amused by Trump’s warnings to Putin.
“President Trump warns Moscow, claiming Russia avoided ‘REALLY BAD’ consequences only thanks to him,” RT posted on X. “‘Putin doesn’t realize… he’s playing with fire!’ — Trump’s message leaves little room for misinterpretation Until he posts the opposite tomorrow morning.”
The post included a screenshot of Trump’s Truth Social post taunting Putin. “What Vladimir Putin doesn’t realize is that if it weren’t for me, lots of really bad things would have already happened to Russia, and I mean REALLY BAD. He’s playing with fire!” the president wrote, implying that he has been protecting Russia.
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The Rolling Stone.......
Jesus Christ.
Please stop posting.
OPINION
Trump is totally getting played by Putin.
I really hope it does not end up as a showdown between nuclear powers but as proud and selfish as Trump is it could go that way.
Trump's attitude towards this whole thing is shameful. Turning our backs on NATO and Ukraine at this point after the long road we've been on is such an awful betrayal of trust. Throwing all of that away for what? To appear tough? It only makes sense if Trump is directly doing the will of Putin. Otherwise we're tossing monumental alliances into the dumpster just like that? At a whim?
Trump recently said he's been protecting Putin from unnamed dangers. Trump has taken Putin's side in the war on Ukraine. Trump is getting called out on caving on every threat he makes. Trump is a fool who believes everything he sees on the internet. All of this leads me to think that a major confrontation with Putin is on the horizon. I truly hope cooler heads prevail.
Have you EVER been right about anything regarding world politics?Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
We get it: you have a raging case of TDS and even if Trump cured cancer today, you would be on here complaining about it tomorrow.. "THINK OF ALL THE RESEARCHERS OUT OF WORK NOW!"
It's a good thing you said "OPINION" at the top so that no one would think you were stating facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
Do you sign your text messages too?
Retard :rofl:
FACTS
Nuclear war has not begun
NATO since inception has leaned on US taxpayers to fund their defense
Majority of US taxpayers want them to step up their spending as per the NATO documents
Ukraine is not a NATO member
Ukraine is not a democracy since halting elections
Majority of US taxpayers want to spend tax dollars domestically and make America great again
The prior administration was run by a kabal and resembled Weekend at Bernie's
On July 14, Trump promised that if Russia did not stop fighting in 50 days, then Trump would impose tariffs on Russia. Why tell Russia they are free to continue attacking Ukraine for 50 days? Nobody knows.
Then last week, Trump shortened the 50 days to 10 to 12 more days, without explanation.
This week..
Quote:
Trump on Thursday was asked directly if his Aug. 8 deadline for Putin to make peace or face consequences still applied.
"It's gonna be up to him," the president responded. "We're going to see what he has to say. It's gonna be up to him. Very disappointed."
More...
Quote:
President Donald Trump said on Friday he will be meeting with Russia's President Vladimir Putin next Friday, Aug. 15 in Alaska.
"The highly anticipated meeting between myself, as President of the United States of America, and President Vladimir Putin, of Russia, will take place next Friday, August 15, 2025, in the Great State of Alaska. Further details to follow. Thank you for your attention to this matter!" he posted on his social media platform.
This is just another delaying tactic. Trump has imposed tariffs on every country in the world, except one. Guess which one? The reason Trump has not imposed tariffs on Russia, even as he has imposed tariffs on our closest allies, is because he says it would make peace talks difficult. If Russia ever stop attacking Ukraine, then Trump will put tariffs on them. That's the art of the deal, Trump style.
He should put a tariff on your retarded posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
Would solve the national debt, between CrydeR and BackQuote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
We don’t tariff Russia because we already sanction the fuck out of them. In 2024 we did $3B worth of imports from Russia, which is not much at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
The tariffs Trump is talking about with Russia are secondary. If another country buys a ton of oil with Russia we will tariff that country. This is an unfortunate necessity because Europe, China, India, and others have continued to buy & increase oil importation from Russia thus not causing the economic wound to Russia desired. I think it’s the right move. Germany in particular needs to get oil elsewhere (from the U.S.) as they are feeding their enemy.
As usual, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Another L for CrydeR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
The current scoreboard:
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Did you see the way Trump rolled out the red carpet for Putin's visit? Very impressive. I wonder how Zelenski will be greeted next week? He'll probably get dropped off at the White House gate by an Uber from the airport.
You can bet a week's worth of your adult diapers that Zelenskyy (not Zelenski, retard) makes sure to wear a suit either way though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
It's absolutely appalling the way Trump treats Putin who has massacred thousands of innocent civilians, stolen thousands of children, who never attacked Russia in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
It's a strange world we live in where men who get away with the worst crimes on the planet are treated like royalty.
Because a much better way to end the war would be for Trump to be like HEY PUTIN YOU FUCKING FAGGOT WHAT THE FUCK I'M ABOUT TO SHOVE BACKLASH'S 3RD FAVORITE DILDO UP YOUR ASS IF YOU DON'T FUCK OFF WITH THIS UKRAINE BULLSHIT YOU FUCK!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
Right?
Quit your white woman pearl clutching already. Nobody is buying it except for ClydeRetard and that's only because he's just as much of a retarded NPC as you.
It would have been more appropriate to arrest him and try him in the ICC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
What is your obsession with dildos in anuses?
What a day on the PC. You guys deliver. In one thread I'm accused of not caring about victims and in another thread I'm accused of caring too much about victims.
Thanks for the laughs guys.
^^ This is how you start world wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
This is why no one takes you seriously except former retard champions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
Dildos are all the rage in the WNBA right now.Quote:
What is your obsession with dildos in anuses?
Fixed sick fuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
I didn't throw any dildos onto the court. I don't own any dildos. But you own at least 3, which makes you statistically more likely to throw dildos onto a basketball court. Plus you're more likely to attend a WNBA game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00QFIzXN0MM
No thank you..Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
And thank you for reminding everyone that a mind is a terrible thing to waste.....
Why would Putin attack Russia? What an odd thing to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
It never creases to amaze me how Democrats go from "War is bad! Republicans are war mongers!" whenever a non-Trump Republican is president, to absolute crickets about war when a Democrat is president, to "I want muh forever wars!" whenever Trump tries to stop wars.
I don’t doubt that you believe that you care about victims of crime. I’m just saying you’re a retarded emotionally driven soy-boy with no notion of how to properly care for your own life, let alone anyone else’s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
It's actually "Зеленський," which anybody can see is clearly Zelenski.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
By anybody, you mean the mentally retarded?Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
Like literally, all you have to do is google search "Zelenski" the way you sounded it out (kudos to you for trying!) and it will auto correct to Zelenskyy.
On a scale of 1-10, how much trouble do you have with operating a doorknob?Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
FTFYQuote:
Originally Posted by Methais
You care about Ukrainians so much you want them to keep dying in a forever war with Russia rather than give peace a chance just because Trump wants peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
Arresting Putin would put a stop to all his criminal activity including massacring innocent Ukrainians, murdering his political rivals and critics (Navalny), multiple assassinations, meddling in every country's political affairs, and the list goes on. This one man is responsible for world wide anguish and terror.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~
So invite a leader of a nuclear armed country to peace negotiations and then arrest him? Look I know you are retarded but you can’t be that retarded…Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
Why are people like you so dumb? You really think Russia is going to immediately turn into a Western democracy if Putin is arrested by an international organization? You don’t think Russians would view him as a martyr and an even worse person is going to become president of Russia?Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
You watch way too many dumb Hollywood movies where everything can be solved by just taking out one bad guy.
But then again you’re also the same person who thinks we almost lost our democracy because of an unarmed riot and it was literally worse than 9/11. So yeah, you are the perfect useful idiot for the Democrat party.
This is why smooth brains like you should have 0 input on anything that matters. You're simply too retarded and have no thought process based on reason or logic, only high estrogen fueled unhinged emotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
I assure you he really is that retarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
I'd bet an entire paycheck that Back has stood in the mirror or whatever, pretending he's Liam Neeson and is telling Trump "I will find you, and I will kill you."Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
Kind of like Artie when he thought he was gonna go kick that guy's ass who owed his money and got wrecked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRnkMiARiT4
White women do this all the time on Twitter, so it's right up Back's alley.
Back be like:Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
“Don't air raid for that bitch, I hate that shit. It's like that Clint fucker in front of all his friends. Huh? Huh mother fucker.”
“Dominant male monkey mother fucker.“
:rofl:
https://youtu.be/fZEZkOA_rYI?si=KdN4_3RHmo-tmknM
Hey now, give him his dues.He IS that retarded... and it's an alcohol free retardation.STILL amazes me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
I concur. It’s just shocking someone can be that dumb. Back continues to earn his undisputed PC GOAT retard champ belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkbandit
I wonder if Zelenskyy shows up in a suit today... or is he going to wear his fatigues as if he is on the front lines again...
I'm betting suit.
https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...QQ&oe=68A9AC6AQuote:
Originally Posted by Parkbandit
Watching Trump as Zelenskyy is asked by a reporter about his suit was fucking hilarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~
https://youtu.be/uFEhWe5yBd4
That "reporter" is Brian Glenn of Real America's Voice who happens to be MTG's boyfriend.
Are you okay Back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
You can't be a reporter if you are MTG's boyfriend?Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
He has a masters degree in journalism and has 20+ years of media experience.
Sounds like a reporter to me.
It would blow Back's mind to learn how many people worked in the Obama administration who had spouses and family members who worked for major news companies. And not just low level reporters, I mean like CEOs and presidents and shit.
Well, it wouldn't blow his mind, because he has convinced himself that it's always different when Democrats do it.
Back logic: If the “reporter” isn’t from the newly formed (P)MS NOW they aren’t real reporters. Also who said “reporter” is currently dating is absolutely relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
Sounds you are bit jealous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
More likely jealous of MTG though...Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~
MTG's face is all busted up though. Honestly, she looks like she probably speaks to the manager a lot.
I have met her, she doesn't. She has gotten a bit tired of being swatted by the Left pretty regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
He means Back is jealous of MTG because he's a giant gaylord and wants her boyfriend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
Probably.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/rF5ERf7nc...o-top-gear.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Back
Speaking of spouses, did you know that Fauci's wife was the person in charge of making sure Fauci acted ethically?
I'm gonna assume that you didn't.
https://y.yarn.co/ee030e09-7ca1-42bf...bef68_text.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Methais
The below is from the meeting of Trump with Zelenski and European leaders on Monday. Trump is just making up past diplomatic successes that never happened.
Here's what's really going on. Trump wanted a ceasefire to be the result of his meeting with Putin last week. He said so publicly before the meeting and threatened severe consequences to Russia if Russia did not agree to the ceasefire. Putin said no. Trump, unwilling to admit that he did not get what he wanted in negotiations with Putin, is saying that a ceasefire is not important. In fact, I'm not sure that Trump got anything at all from negotiations with Putin. The outcome of the Trump/Putin meeting was that Putin got more time to press his advantage in Ukraine.Quote:
TRUMP: Mr. Chancellor from Germany, a very, very great leader.
MERZ: Mr. President, Donald, many thanks for having us today. I think this is extremely helpful that we are meeting and hearing that the two of you are having such a good meeting today here in Washington. The next steps ahead are the more complicated ones now. The path is open. You opened it last Friday. But now the way is open for complicated negotiations.
And to be honest, we all would like to see a ceasefire. The latest from the next meeting on. I can’t imagine that the next meeting would took place without a ceasefire. So let’s work on that. And let’s try to put pressure on Russia. Because the credibility of these efforts we are undertaking today are depending on at least a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations from next step on. So I would like to emphasize this aspect and would like to see a ceasefire from the next meeting, which should be a trilateral meeting wherever it takes place.
TRUMP: We’re going to let the President go over and talk to the President, and we’ll see how that works out. And if we can do that, I will say it again. I say it in the six wars that I’ve settled. I haven’t had a ceasefire. We just got into negotiations, and the one of the wars was, as you know, in the Congo was 30 years, 31 years long. Another one that we settled last week with two great countries was 35 years going on, and we had no ceasefire. So if we can do the ceasefire, great. And if we don’t do a ceasefire, because many other points were given to us, many, many points were given to us, great points.
More...
Fact: More work towards peace has happened in the past week than at anytime during the Biden Administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
Get fucked, retard. I know you wanted this war to continue so more people will die.
You fucking ghoul.
Why do people keep saying that Trump is just "giving Putin more time"? Like, or else what? What is going to happen?
Ukraine has always been in a losing position in this war. Sure they have managed to reclaim some of their territory and has managed to slow Russia's advance, but Ukraine has always been in a losing position, and that's WITH the US giving them hundreds of billions of dollars worth of weapons and other support, and other countries giving them weapons and money.
So what now? What is Trump going to do? Give Ukraine more money so more young Ukrainians die before Russia inevitably steamrolls their defenses? Russia has many more resources and many more men to throw into the meat grinder than Ukraine does.
Either Ukraine accepts a peace agreement or they will eventually lose anyways after much death and destruction.
This is just how Democrats act about shit that goes on here in the US: they don't give a single fuck about anyone in Ukraine because they aren't the ones who have to suffer the consequences of their virtue signaling.
They are all too happy to see more young men in Ukraine die just so they can say "I'm standing up to Putin! I'm on the right side of history!"
I’ve been saying this for years. Short of direct military intervention (IE boots on the ground) from the U.S. or Europe, Ukraine cannot win this war even with advanced NATO weapons. They don’t have the manpower. Russia does. Russia can send another million people to die and it wouldn’t phase them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
The Ukrainians have fought honorably and has proved to the world Russia is a paper tiger militarily. It’s time to end this thing. The longer it goes on, the more Russia will make slow territorial gains on Ukraine. Putin will not and cannot end this war without something to show for it. The way to peace is Ukraine to cede some territory, Ukraine receives security guarantees, and both Russia & Ukraine make some trade deals with the West. If that doesn’t happen, the war and status quo will continue.
tRuMp ShOuLd HaVe ArReStEd PuTiN iN aLaSkA!!!!!!!1111 -CrackrashQuote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
At this point I'm convinced leftists such as Back WANT Trump to start WW3, just so they can say "See?! We tried to warn you he would start WW3!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
These people would also be the first to flee to a safe country if WW3 started instead of helping to defend against the shit they started.
They literally don't care what it is as long as it makes Trump look bad. It could be some world ending event that Trump stopped and they'd still be outraged over that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
Right Back?
It's not much different than when some dude interviews leftists on the street and quotes something Obama or whoever said, but says Trump said it, and they're like "Whoa that's the most fucking racist thing I've ever heard in my life see I told you Trump was literally Hitler!!!!!" and the interviewer guy is like "Yeah, Obama actually said that, not Trump." and then they come back with some dumb shit like "Well I'm sure he had his reasons but still....TRUMP!!!!!"
A couple of points on this whole conflict:
- The wrong side of history is Biden saying a small incursion might be ok. Before that was Obama doing nothing over the seizure of Crimea. The fact that Europe was buying Russian gas after the Crimea thing suggests they are stupid, short sighted and don't give a shit. Of course, for Europe, this is no surprise at all.
- The Ukraine had nukes, like a lot of nukes and the infrastructure to support them. At the behest of the US and NATO, they agreed to give them up in exchange for guarantees, among them no entrance into NATO and so called protection in exchange for not being invaded. NATO at the behest of Europeans broke that part, Putin broke the no invasion part and the rest of the world fucked off on the protection agreements. This has pretty much shown the world that short of very public treaties and public scrutiny, they can't trust others for their protection and no one that ever develops nukes in the world will ever give them up again, ever. It has probably also convinced a lot of people in the world that they might need to seriously consider nukes if things keep going to shit. Despite the rhetoric, the tech to make nukes is not complicated, the tech to make good nukes is and requires a technical base the rest of the world is struggling to get. Quality industrial 3D printing will narrow that gap in minutes if not hours if people put their mind to it.
- Both Ukraine and Russia could have been in NATO right after the breakup of the USSR but Europe deemed "to soon." See how that has worked out for them.
- Ukraine is tapped for men, that's true, Russia is hurting for men, the rest of the world has had their fun and games using the place as a tech test program. An insane amount of military hardware and tactics will be redesigned, upgraded and so on because of this war. I mean really, a T-90 got dogwalked by a pair of export M2 Bradleys. By all rights, it should have fired 2 shots and they should have been smoking heaps. Cheap drones are a proven real threat. If you can get close enough with a decent signal, multiple millions of dollars of hard to replace aircraft and almost impossible to replace ships are doomed. I am pretty sure the US has already solved the drone problem and just hasn't told anyone. There is a reason a lot of our hardware is wire guided.
If Trump negotiates this peace with minimal land loss and/or perhaps some swap then we should call it good. Adding in Article 4 type defense treaty protections could cause us grief later but with proper financial incentive, read rare earth minerals and so on, then it will be worth it. In the end, the long tradition of Russia invading places won't stop until Putin gets out of the picture and a lot of old Soviet citizens die off.
Europe hates us except when they want our money or military or both. After the BS bluster and mouthy bullshit of the first half of this year, it was gratifying to see all the leaders in the oval office kissing ass and singing a new tune. After this peace settlement, Trump really does deserve a Nobel Prize despite the fact that after the past 20 years of woke bullshit, they don't carry the reputation they used too.
The USSR wanted to join NATO when it was formed, but we told them no.
:(
When discussing Ukraine, J.D. Vance said on Meet the Press today that World War II ended through negotiation. Is that how you learned it in school?
Quote:
Unfortunately for Vance, World War II was not brought to an end, but came to a close with the unconditional surrender of Germany on May 7, 1945, and Japan on September 2, 1945.
"Vance says WWII ended in negotiation -someone tell that to Hiroshima," one user wrote on X.
Another added, "World War 2 ended with the exact opposite of a negotiation."
More...
Yes, actually, because Germany and Japan negotiated surrender. That's how it works since we didn't just go in and kill everyone in the upper command and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
You Democrats are so desperate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
It was a negotiation. The US told Japan "surrender now or we will turn your entire country to rubble" and Japan said "Okay. We surrender."
In case you're not aware, we didn't turn Japan into the 49th US state.
No where did Vance say or even imply that people didn't die in any of those wars. Holy shit you fuckers are absurd.
Potsdam Agreement 1945Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
Do you have any idea how close the U.S. & Great Britain were to continuing WW2 against the Soviet Union? No, but I learned that in school.
Trump just slapped a 50% tariff on all Indian imports because they keep buying more Russian oil.
Which is odd, you would think Trump, the supposed Russian asset, would be cheering India on. Instead he is risking alienating a US ally and fucking over their economy because they are directly helping Russia.
So weird.
Tech Support is about to become so expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
Yeah, no for Germany, and not really for Japan as their ONLY condition was purely symbolic and would have probably surrendered anyways if the allies said fuck no.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~
Germany did not negotiate peace terms.
The Allies (United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, and others) demanded unconditional surrender — meaning Germany had no bargaining power.
Adolf Hitler committed suicide on April 30, 1945.
Germany surrendered unconditionally on May 7–8, 1945.
The surrender documents were signed in Reims, France, and then again in Berlin for the Soviets.
So, Germany’s end came by military defeat and unconditional surrender, not through a negotiated settlement.
The Allies insisted on no negotiation whatsoever.
The German government tried to arrange a separate peace with the Western Allies while continuing to fight the Soviets — but the Allies refused.
In the end, Germany was forced into total, unconditional surrender. There was no middle ground, no negotiated terms.
The Allies deliberately avoided any kind of negotiated settlement because of World War I, they believed that deal had allowed Germany to claim it wasn’t truly defeated and had contributed to World War II.
Japan’s situation was similar: the Allies demanded unconditional surrender in the Potsdam Declaration.
After the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, plus the Soviet Union’s declaration of war against Japan, Japan agreed to surrender.
Japan requested one condition — that the Emperor could remain as a symbolic leader. The Allies accepted this interpretation.
Japan’s surrender was formally signed on September 2, 1945, aboard the USS Missouri in Tokyo.
India is not an ally of the U.S., A strategic partner at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
So like, there were still leaders from both sides that talked right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
…? Talking and negotiating are two completely different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
With Germany, there was no negotiation whatsoever. It was total unconditional surrender. The allies refused any form of negotiation.
With Japan, if you want to call them begging for one symbolic thing to remain, negotiating… that’s up to you.
Negotiation literally just means talking and working towards an agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
Allies: Surrender now or we will destroy your country.
Germany and Japan: Okay.
There you go. They negotiated. Just because Germany and Japan didn't get anything they wanted doesn't mean diplomacy wasn't used. Germany and Japan could have just as easily have said "No, we will fight to the last man."
There was intense negotiation on what to do with Germany and much of Eastern Europe after the war, despite Germany not having a voice in the matter. That Iron Curtain divided the continent between the Soviet Union on one side and the rest of the Allies on the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
You’re right, and I’ve never stated otherwise, but that still doesn’t change the fact that they did not negotiate with Germany whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
Multiple people here are trying to claim the allies negotiated with Germany. They did not. Germany had confirmed this and so had the allies. Not sure why this is even being debated.
No, it doesn’t. I don’t think you’re really understand? They did not negotiate with Germany whatsoever. They had zero discussions with Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
Germany said they did not negotiate the allies said they did not negotiate. But here you are saying that everyone else is wrong but you’re right. lol?
A negotiation is a process in which two or more parties with differing interests, needs, or goals communicate and bargain with each other to reach a mutually acceptable agreement.
This is the definition of negotiation, it did not happen.
What you described was an ultimatum.
While an ultimatum can appear within a negotiation, but it is not a negotiation in itself. Here’s why:
Negotiation is about dialogue, exchange, and exploring options.
An ultimatum is more of a one-sided demand: “Do this, or else…” It leaves little to no room for discussion.
If they were in discussions when the allies issued an ultimatum as you described, you would be correct.
But they were not.
Bros, this is Ukraine we are talking about. Solkern knows more than anyone.
When you try to talk down to someone, make sure you at least make sense doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
He's got time4fun complex #5Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
People like Trump so much that they will change history to keep from admitting that he is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
What was the result of the bilateral Trump/Putin Alaska summit?
Trump reversed his presummit position that Russia must agree to a ceasefire or face immediate sanctions. Trump's presummit demands were replaced with -- what was the replacement? -- nothing. Trump dropped all demands.
Putin made no concessions and significantly increased his aerial attacks on Ukraine.
Did I get any part of that wrong?
Except Vance never said WW2 ended with Germany negotiating. It did end in negotiations though. We had to figure out what to do with Germany (and Eastern Europe) as the American & Western Allies had very different plans than the Soviet Union.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
The bombs dropped in Hiroshima & Nagasaki were equally as much of a show of force deterrence against the Soviet Union as it was about ending the war on Japan quickly. As I posted before, the war nearly continued with the West vs Soviet Union. Instead of that happening, we negotiated to say which lands would remain under Soviet influence & occupation and what territory would be occupied & influenced by the United States & the West.
WW2 absolutely ended in negotiation. See Potsdam agreement. See Marshall Plan.
Trump brought two warring leaders together in attempt to negotiate a peace. Putin is being an asshole and a peace agreement could not be reached. Trump is moving forward with Option B, which includes more arms sales to Ukraine & secondary tariffs to countries that continue to buy Russian oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
This is nothing to be ashamed about. Trump is doing everything he can to bring this war to a quick end. You can Monday morning QB all you want, but Biden allowed this war to happen & at no point did he ever do anything to bring this conflict to an end.
This is the only thing I read of your post... and if history is a any guide to future behavior.. then yes, you got it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
95.7% of the time, you get it wrong.
After seeing the following decades after WWII, MacCarther and Patton were right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
What was the 4.3% that cRydeRetard got right? Seems like an unusually high number for a tard like him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkbandit
A broken clock is right twice a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
They were absolutely right about the Soviet Union being the global enemy of freedom loving people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~
On continuing the war and fighting the Soviet Union back then…I’m not so sure. It worked out for us pretty well in our timeline. We emerged as a dominant superpower and ultimately defeated the Soviet Union through a superior form of government & economy.
Where we fucked up is after the collapse of the Soviet Union. We should have done something like the Marshal Plan for them and stabilized their nation. It worked for Japan. You can’t go from communism command economy to free market capitalism overnight. We let them deteriorate to chaos, corruption & the Russian mob took over, and thus a Putin dictatorship was inevitable.
Yeah, we listened to Europe. We proposed to get them into NATO and to build defense and economic ties. Europe balked and whined and you know the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
Once again, I never said the allies didn’t discuss amongst themselves, other people have stated that the allies negotiated with Germany, which is factually incorrect. The allies never negotiated with Germany, whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
If you want to call Japan begging for a symbolic person to stay in power as “negotiations” that’s up to you.
And no, the war did not end with “negotiations” to be honest, it ended when Germany accepted the ultimatum. The discussion among allies, led to the end of the war, but so did D-day.
If Germany was a part of the discussions(negotiations), and the war ended with them accepting it, you would be 100% correct, but they weren’t.
The war was still raging for OVER TWO YEARS after the allies Negotiated amongst themselves and agreed that they would only accept an unconditional surrender from Germany.
January 1943 (Casablanca Conference): Roosevelt and Churchill publicly announce that only unconditional surrender would be accepted from Germany, Italy, and Japan. This was effectively the ultimatum — but it wasn’t directed at Germany in a formal diplomatic note.
• April–May 1945: As the Third Reich collapsed, the Allies demanded that German forces surrender unconditionally. There was no formal “new” ultimatum, just the already-established policy.
• May 7, 1945: German General Alfred Jodl signed the first instrument of unconditional surrender at Reims, France.
• May 8, 1945 (V-E Day): The surrender took effect. A second signing, more formal and in the presence of Soviet commanders, happened late on May 8 in Berlin.
So in short:
• Ultimatum issued: Not as a single final document, but as the Casablanca declaration (Jan 1943).
• Acceptance of unconditional surrender: May 7–8, 1945.
What? This is absolutely wrong. Zelensky did not attend the summit in Alaska. This summit has zero chance of any success, it was all for show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
What did he do after the summit? Pretty sure he bombed a U.S. factory, or was that before the summit?
Can you describe the steps that President Biden took to end the war?Be specific.Stop letting your inflamed and oozing TDS control your tiny little brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
So you think it’s wrong Trump met with Putin (and Zelensky separately in this case) to try to be an intermediary and bring this war to an end? Tell me then, what is the path to diplomacy that both parties can agree upon? What would you have done differently, and why did Biden not even attempt to give peace a chance? Are you willing for the US and/or Europe to get into direct conflict with Russia over Ukraine? If not, you do understand that as this protracted war continues Russia will continue to make incremental territorial gains?Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
You said Trump brought two warring leaders together.
He did not.
Putin does not want peace, even the Russians know this.
Peace means the end of the war, and the singular thing keeping the Russian economy afloat.
Putin wins, he doesn’t have the money or resources to rebuild Ukraine, and his economy will collapse as well.
It’s just like Afghan, it’s too big and expensive to control.
Putin loses and he dies.
His window for the war actually ending closed years ago.
Putin will keep making incremental gains, and what? At what cost? You do banking, you should know damn well what Putin is doing to the economy can only last so long, eventually it will implode, that’s the only way this war will end.
Putin loses no matter what.
You are arguing semantics. I’ll give you a ceasefire was achieved with Germany’s unconditional surrender (mostly…small pockets of resistance continued) but the war in Europe did not conclude until a negotiated settlement between the Allies on what to do about Germany & Eastern Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
Also wanted to add.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
There is no path to diplomacy. Why? Putin doesn’t want peace, that should be obvious by now and what Putin is demanding, is not realistic. He purposely makes it unrealistic and keeps moving the goal post and in his demands.
If he REALLY wanted peace and the war to end, he would meet with Zelenskyy. Alaska was the perfect place to do it. Of course he didn’t and he never will.
Biden understood this. Just watch Russian Media. They don’t want peace they want to commit genocide… this is Russian state media sponsored and controlled by the government by the way.
Joe Biden beat Putin at his own game. By supporting Ukraine to fight off Russia it put Russia in a weaker position globally economically and militarily. All without losing a single US troop.
Trump wants to cave to Putin like nothing ever happened. It's spineless, cowardice, enabling, dumb, and totally goes against the grain of American toughness.
I’m not, the allies discussed the unconditional surrender in January 1943. Two years later Germany surrendered unconditionally. Two years buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
Do you know when the allies discussed what would happen to Germany after they surrendered? First in November of 1943 at the Tehran conference, than a finalization in February 1945, in The Yalta conference(nothing was changed, it was just a confirmation of what was already agreed upon). Months before the war ended.
Potsdam Conference Happened MONTHS after Germany surrendered, and the focus shifted from planning to implementation: confirming borders, setting policies (demilitarization, denazification, reparations, democratization), and managing day-to-day administration.
So your “negotiated settlement” happened years and finalized months before the war ended and months after Germany’s unconditional surrender.
The war ended a year and a half after the allies discussed what would happen post surrender.
Sorry m8, negotiations had no direct influence with Germany’s unconditional surrender, and the end of the war.
if it did, it the war would have ended at the end of 1943 or at the very beginning of 44, not a year and a half later in the middle of 1945.
No he didn’t, Biden was an idiot. The only thing he understood was that Putin doesn’t want peace, and there is no diplomacy with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
He could have and should have done A LOT more, and he failed.
Trump has continued the exact same thing Biden did and Trump also slapped tariffs on India for buying Russian oil and threatened to slap tariffs on other countries if they buy Russian oil. All without losing a single US troop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
What more do you fuckers want Trump to do that Biden didn't do?
Concur, Trump has tried to do more, but hasn’t had any success to be honest, as the war is still raging on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
The problem is Trump really believes he can make peace happen, he can’t, no one can. Putin does not want peace.
I agree Biden understood Putin better than Trump. By standing up to Putin and showing strength is the only way to deal with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
If by saying Biden could have done more means him agreeing to Ukraine striking inside of Russia I would agree. I'd be interested to hear what you think he could have done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
This thread has 2500+ posts in it and has been going on for 11 years....Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
And you still managed to make the 2 dumbest posts in the entire thread today.
Kudos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
1.) Biden didn't even know what he fuck was going on or where he was for his entire time in office and wasn't running anything. Remember when his handlers posted from Biden's Twitter that he wasn't seeking reelection and Biden had no fucking clue about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
2.) Your immeasurable stupidity never ceases to amaze.
Russia has major economic issues including massive inflation. A wartime economy is unsustainable. I think Putin must secure victory (however they define that) but logically they have great incentive to make peace. You don’t think Putin wants sanctions lifted on the U.S. and EU?Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
This was the real point Nazi Germany ceased to exist, and was replaced by what would be East & West Germany.
Do you know what Stalin planned to do before Germany invaded Russia? They were going to mop up whatever was left of Europe after it was decimated by war.
Do you know what McCarthy, Patton, and Churchill wanted to do with Russia? We we very close to continuing the war and turning on the Soviet Union.
I say the WW2 didn’t end until the new world order was founded, which was an Iron Curtain that divided liberty loving democratic governments in the West vs oppressive communism in the East. Fight me.
Hey retard, Biden allowed Putin to invade Ukraine. Putin took advantage of a weak POTUS and knew he could get away with it. The only thing Biden did after that was waste our tax dollars, which is what his handlers did best. The Biden administration didn’t do shit to stand up to Putin…Quote:
Originally Posted by Back
It’s not a great incentive. Why? Lifting sanctions won’t change anything, and the EU won’t lift sanctions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
Companies don’t trust Russia. Russia isn’t a large market for most foreign companies. No one trust Putin, or the Russian government.
If the war ended tomorrow and magically all sanctions got lifted. Unless they got a major influx of cash from foreign governments, their economy would collapse. No country wants to, or can support Russia post war, that includes China.
My wife’s city, 70% of the city lost their jobs. It’s the 4th largest city in Russia.
Russia won’t return all seized assets and money, we both know that. Their planes are on forced confiscation, Boeing and airbus wont help them.
Their entire economy is driven just by the war, the Russians that fled? Won’t return, the labor shortages won’t be solved by the war ending, they don’t have money to support, fix and rebuild the territory they took.
Russia loses no matter what. Putin is just delaying the inevitable.
I will fight you! WW2 ended the day Germany surrendered, and the time you reference was when the Cold War started.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
Let’s go back to what JD Vance said. “If you go back to World War II, if you go back to World War I. If you go back to every major conflict in human history, they all end with some kind of negotiation.”
I’ll continue to make the argument that a ton of negotiation happened between the Allies in order to bring WW2 to a complete conclusion. He said some kind of negotiation. I don’t think that is deserving of ridicule for making that statement.
We both know you are stretching for this. It’s obvious he meant negotiations with Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
Next, I never once disputed what Vance said. My comments were directly solely at the two, or maybe it was 3 that said the allies negotiated with Germany, which is incorrect, they never did.
They never did because of WW1
Once again, the allies discussed it, or as you put it, negotiated more than a year before the conclusion of the war, so negotiations did not end WW2, if they did, it would have finished in 43.
So Vance stating that WW2 ended with negotiations, is false. There was zero negotiations done at any point leading up to Germany’s surrender.
On top of that, the negotiations had zero to do with Germany actually surrendering, why? Quite simple, Germany wasn’t involved and had no clue what the allies discussed.
I mean come on man, Vance misspoke, that it. I never ridiculed him once, people misspeak all the time.
The allies AND Germany all said the war ended without any form of negotiations, what more do you need? Are you saying the countries that were actually involved in the war are all wrong and Vance is correct? lol?
Had the western Allies started fighting against the Soviet Union when they met in Germany, would you concede WW2 did not end with Germany’s surrender? Sure they started talking about what to do about Germany post-war in 43, but it really didn’t start coming together as a settled solution until Potsdam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
I’d love to buy some Russian AKs and cheap Russian ammo again. Just saying…Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
I would agree that WW2 would still be raging if that happened. But it didn’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
Discussing logistics after the war ended, is inconsequential. The war ended. Negotiations or discussions happening after the war has already stopped couldn’t possibly be the reason for the war to be over, as they happened afterwards.
Potsdam was about managing defeated Germany.
Hahaha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
You believe that WW2 would still be raging, 80 years later?Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
What?
You didn't beat Backlash for the dumbest post in this thread.. but I give you an A for effort for trying.
Yeah, missing those spam cans honestly . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet
lol no. The Soviets were a pretty fucked up Army, they were able to keep going because the Germans were even more fucked. The US Military alone had the same number of troops as the Soviets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solkern
The Allies, namely the US, were ever ramping up production and had Jets hitting the sky. The M26 Pershing was on the way in. Oh, also the Atomic Bomb.
Yeah, the Pershing was a stone cold killer. This was what the T-34s and KV-1s would have been facing. The 90mm gun, better armor, better speed, better engine power and over all tough reliability would have wiped out the Soviets in a hurry. When they engaged tank on tank in Korea, the story is clear. And yeah, with our air power ramped up and the increased accuracy of ground strike along with the absolutly insane industrial power fully online and more coming along every day, we really should have taken them out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
https://youtu.be/F_X2bJCCH4Q?si=voPQVqXCJFMM4QXI
There is an after action that has a Pershing knocking out a Tiger I at over 900 yards before taking out the 2 panzer IVs that were with it. And then a single Super Pershing was sent in and just wrecked all sorts of stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~
The US Industrial capacity was at the point where these could have replaced every single Sherman in use within the year.
Plus, we'd have had Patton leading.
I’m partial to the Tiger II tanks, but by the time those were produced Germany was already losing badly & their production capacity was a fraction of the United States. The Soviet Union’s IS tanks were inferior dog poop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
Tiger IIs and Pershings were so rare, they never met, however, a PErshing probably would have fucking annihilated it. They could penetrate 13 inches of steel armor at 100 yards. The thickest part of a Tiger II was 7.3 inches of armor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet