Russia Investigation Heating Up

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

You being so upset over the rep comments I left you makes me so happy. Mission Accomplished.

Thank you.

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:rofl: Example #4 this week of your third grade level reading comprehension.

You being revealed as deranged, obsessive and bigoted doesn't equal me, or anyone else, being upset by those comments. You, on the other hand, were quite clearly upset by being exposed (as you desperately tried to play off in the repageddon thread), or you wouldn't have altered your subsequent behavior, even if the demented and obsessive behavior continues.

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Also, I love how you blame your stupidity for agreeing with your own post on another login. Are you suggesting that you were just going to agree with yourself? It wasn't a fuck up.. it was an intentional attempt to give yourself support, which is beyond pathetic, bordering on psychotic.

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And there's #5. You're on a roll. Yikes. I know you're super desperate after being embarrassed here, but either you literally can't remember a moment you've spent 9 1/2 years jerking off to, or you had a brain aneurysm while writing that sentence. Yes, misquoting myself was clearly a fuckup. I didn't just randomly announce "BTW, that's me!"

The best you've got is that I, in 2008 -- in my early 20s -- created another account for auctions, then screwed around in like two politics threads over a course of a few days. You, as a 40/50+ year old, over the course of a decade, obsessively sent other men bigoted, angrily sexualized comments on a daily/weekly basis, obsessively, as fast as the rep system would allow. You literally spent hours and hours and hours over the course of that period doing this. You're still doing it. You left Time - who hasn't even been posting - how many messages?

Nobody's forgotten your festering mental illness that thread exposed. You badly need psychiatric care.

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Originally Posted by Fortybox

I think people are sick of the crap. California is the poverty capital of the nation. There's a good chance a Republican governor will be elected this year.

I think a lot of people are seeing that liberal policies bring disaster and don't work. Perhaps they may not see themselves as Republicans but they may vote that way to get something new/different.

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CA is doing pretty good. It's effectively a nation on the global scale of things.

Liberal policies seem to be holding up pretty well. Kansas, Wisconsin, Mississippi are all fucked because they ran the conservative experiment, the deep red south is like the 3rd world and our national debt is growing bigly under trump.

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Originally Posted by Fortybox

Yeah, the world was going to end.

Instead, because of Trump, she is doing extremely well. We basically have to hear how wonderful her life is everyday on lnet. She is even doing so well from the tax cuts that she is funding the ACLU (really, she said that)!

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She can probably single handedly fund the ACLU since she's richer than everyone here combined.

You people need to copy/paste that shit from lnet. I can update the topic for her to keep track of all her stories.

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Sorry.. I honestly only have pity for you. No other emotion.

More pity that actually fall for your bullshit, but I still have only pity for you.

Seriously though, if you need a couple dollars to get you through the day, PM me the address you're at this week and I'll see if I can get around to sending you some.

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keep raging, we'll keep laughing

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

keep raging, we'll keep laughing

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WHY WON'T YOU ACKNOWLEDGE HOW UPSET I'M NOT!?
-Parkbandit

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

No one is laughed at more than you kid.

How long has it been since you have seen anything outside your room?

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You have this tell when you're doing something embarrassing. Specifically you accuse someone else of being/doing that exact thing you are busy being/doing. The statement you just made is...ironic in a way that evokes pity.

And look- if you want to prove to everyone here that you're more than just an anger machine raging out on a forum he doesn't even belong in...try posting like an adult in here, on-topic, and have an intellectual debate. Get passionate about the issues, not the personal insults.

Stop and think about this for a second. What does it say about someone- anyone- who finds following those guidelines both impossible and fundamentally uninteresting?

Do you really think anyone here sits around and says to themselves- "That PB's posts demonstrate that he's both thoughtful and mature. He adds a lot of value to this discussion, and it's clear he's knowledgeable and intellectually curious"?

They don't. They mostly go back and forth between varying levels of pity for you.

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Originally Posted by Ashliana

:rofl: Example #4 this week of your third grade level reading comprehension.

You being revealed as deranged, obsessive and bigoted doesn't equal me, or anyone else, being upset by those comments. You, on the other hand, were quite clearly upset by being exposed (as you desperately tried to play off in the repageddon thread), or you wouldn't have altered your subsequent behavior, even if the demented and obsessive behavior continues.



And there's #5. You're on a roll. Yikes. I know you're super desperate after being embarrassed here, but either you literally can't remember a moment you've spent 9 1/2 years jerking off to, or you had a brain aneurysm while writing that sentence. Yes, misquoting myself was clearly a fuckup. I didn't just randomly announce "BTW, that's me!"

The best you've got is that I, in 2008 -- in my early 20s -- created another account for auctions, then screwed around in like two politics threads over a course of a few days. You, as a 40/50+ year old, over the course of a decade, obsessively sent other men bigoted, angrily sexualized comments on a daily/weekly basis, obsessively, as fast as the rep system would allow. You literally spent hours and hours and hours over the course of that period doing this. You're still doing it. You left Time - who hasn't even been posting - how many messages?

Nobody's forgotten your festering mental illness that thread exposed. You badly need psychiatric care.

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You still sound very upset.

Were you more upset about the queer red rep I gave you, or the grey old man rep you gave me?

Sorry you don't see the hypocrisy in it...

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Says who?

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http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...114-story.html

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

You still sound very upset.

Were you more upset about the queer red rep I gave you, or the grey old man rep you gave me?

Sorry you don't see the hypocrisy in it...

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Has the Alzheimer's kicked in already?

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Originally Posted by Ashliana

WHY WON'T YOU ACKNOWLEDGE HOW UPSET I'M NOT!?
-Parkbandit

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This actually made me laugh out loud

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Originally Posted by time4fun

You have this tell when you're doing something embarrassing. Specifically you accuse someone else of being/doing that exact thing you are busy being/doing. The statement you just made is...ironic in a way that evokes pity.

And look- if you want to prove to everyone here that you're more than just an anger machine raging out on a forum he doesn't even belong in...try posting like an adult in here, on-topic, and have an intellectual debate. Get passionate about the issues, not the personal insults.

Stop and think about this for a second. What does it say about someone- anyone- who finds following those guidelines both impossible and fundamentally uninteresting?

Do you really think anyone here sits around and says to themselves- "That PB's posts demonstrate that he's both thoughtful and mature. He adds a lot of value to this discussion, and it's clear he's knowledgeable and intellectually curious"?

They don't. They mostly go back and forth between varying levels of pity for you.

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First, take your advice and don't personally insult people's intelligence. You do that all the time.

Second, playing Gemstone is NOT a requisite for the forum.

That is all.

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Originally Posted by time4fun

You have this tell when you're doing something embarrassing. Specifically you accuse someone else of being/doing that exactly thing you are busy being/doing. The statement you just made is...ironic in a way that evokes a sense of pity for you.

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Actually, I am outside quite often. The "anything outside your room" came from an exchange with diethx (the girl he conned into staying with him) and Androidpk where diethx said he never left her apartment for weeks on end.

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And look- if you want to prove to everyone here that you're more than just an anger machine raging out on a forum he doesn't even belong in...try posting like an adult in here, on-topic, and have an intellectual debate. Get passionate about the issues, not the personal insults.

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So before, I was just upset. Now I'm angry? You aren't good at this. At all.

Seriously, given your posting history on this forum.. the very LAST thing you should EVER post about is emotions.

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Stop and think about this for a second. What does it say about someone- anyone- who finds following those guidelines both impossible and fundamentally uninteresting?

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Last time I checked... you left the forums to go elsewhere out of "obligation" but when that didn't work out, you came crawling back here. Seems like you are interested in my conversations, given you constantly replying to them?

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Do you really think anyone here sits around and says to themselves- "That PB's posts demonstrate that he's both thoughtful and mature. He adds a lot of value to this discussion, and it's clear he's knowledgeable and intellectually curious"?

They don't. They mostly go back and forth between varying levels of pity for you.

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Do you believe anyone believes you add anything intelligent to the conversation? You're kidding yourself. Even most liberals consider you a fucking lunatic and skip over your posts.

You don't bring anything to the conversation that we can't find on moveon.org or another liberal rag site.

Constant rage against Trump because Hillary lost isn't hip or cool.. it's boring. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Ashliana

Has the Alzheimer's kicked in already?

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You still have that persistent diarrhea from HiV?

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

keep raging, we'll keep laughing

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I was serious.

I only feel pity for you :(

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

You still have that persistent diarrhea from HiV?

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... Yeah. There's that whole thing where what I say actually applies to you, based on what you're saying, and what you say to me almost always has absolutely no correlation with anything else. Best of luck dealing with that dementia, though.

Dear 3 Stooges:

I'm going to bed now.

Don't mistake my lack of responding to you as I'm angry, upset, raging, etc.... I'm literally just going to bed.

I won't be thinking about you.

At all.

Sorry :(

I'll catch up to you in the morning after I walk my dog. :)

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Dear 3 Stooges:

I'm going to bed now.

Don't mistake my lack of responding to you as I'm angry, upset, raging, etc.... I'm literally just going to bed.

I won't be thinking about you.

At all.

Sorry :(

I'll catch up to you in the morning after I walk my dog. :)

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"LOOK AT HOW MUCH I'M NOT THINKING ABOUT YOU!" -- Parkbandit, the guy who's spent 10+ years leaving bigoted, angrily sexualized messages to strangers on the Internet, as fast as he can.

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Originally Posted by Ashliana

"LOOK AT HOW MUCH I'M NOT THINKING ABOUT YOU!" -- Parkbandit, the guy who's spent 10+ years leaving bigoted, angrily sexualized messages to strangers on the Internet, as fast as he can.

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Are you Flimbo?

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Actually, I am outside quite often. The "anything outside your room" came from an exchange with diethx (the girl he conned into staying with him) and Androidpk where diethx said he never left her apartment for weeks on end.

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Now I conned her? Jesus dude, just show us on the doll where I touched you. :lol2:

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

You still have that persistent diarrhea from HiV?

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Jesus.

You know, I think we all have fundamentally understood that you have had some emotional issues that you've been working through on these forums for years. But, tonight is actually the first time I realized- you actually can't help yourself. I don't mean that in an accusing way- I mean that in a very sincere, apologetic, way.

I'm writing to a grown man who is typing in all caps and saying things like, "You still have that persistent diarrhea from HiV?", who has currently picked a fight with no fewer than 4 people in a thread because they said something he didn't agree with, and who is accusing everyone around him of being out of control- while posting 12-15 times an hour.

And he's doing it in a forum for a game he hasn't played in years. A forum with a rep system that he has spent an inordinate amount of time learning to manipulate in order to punish people who make him feel lesser in any way- less intelligent, less knowledgeable, less reasonable, less successful, etc.


And this grown man finds these slights- intentional or not- from complete strangers to be so painful that the punishment lasts for months- even after he thinks someone is gone. It enrages him, and he cannot help himself after that. He has to "even the score", prove to himself that these other people who make him feel lesser are actually the ones who are lesser. That doesn't make you a bad person. It just makes you ill. And that means that pushing back on you is actually the equivalent of judging someone who is autistic for not making eye contact. It's cruel.

And for my part, I'm sorry. I hope that you do get some help at some point, or, at least, that this forum provides you with the outlet you need to keep yourself from pouring this rage and pain into your real relationships. And I will do my best to stop putting you in positions that trigger a compulsive set of behaviors that you can't control.

Because I'm realizing tonight that your behavior isn't unfair towards others- it's an unfair reality you're forced to live with.

And I would encourage others to recognize the same and to treat you with some more compassion.

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Originally Posted by Fortybox

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...114-story.html

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This article surprised me so I googled it. Politifact gives it a solid TRUE – The statement is accurate and there’s nothing significant missing.

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"If you look at the official poverty measure in California, we’re about average with the rest of the country," Mayes said. "But if you use the supplemental poverty measure, we are in the lead. We have the highest poverty rate in the nation -- higher than New Mexico, higher than any of the southern states, Louisiana, Alabama, higher than Idaho."
...
"I think Assemblymember Mayes’ comments are accurate," said Chris Hoene, executive director of the left-leaning California Budget Policy Center, which has closely studied poverty in the state.
Hoene said the high poverty rate in the supplemental report is driven by California’s stratospheric housing costs. He added that use of the supplemental measure has gained wide acceptance among researchers.
"I think in most quarters, that’s not disputed," he said.
Marybeth Mattingly, a researcher at the Stanford Center on Poverty and Inequality added by email: "Basically, yes, this statement is (sadly) accurate."

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That hits me right in my politics. I'm running into the same shit here in Denver though. Housing prices are going up fast. One house in my neighborhood sold at 381k last year. It could do 430k this year. Between that and the stock market, it feels like that next recession is indeed just around the corner. I wanted to buy a house last year and was appalled at the prices but ended up breaking my leg at work and was on workers comp in the few months before my apt. lease expired, so I re-upped the lease for 1 year. Now I'm stressing about buying this year and getting in to a property at the peak of the bubble

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Originally Posted by Fortybox

Well I'm furious with what the GOP has done so far but I don't put blame on Trump. I think Ryan and McConnell need to go. That said, tax cuts are in effect (which is positive) and hopefully most Americans won't be affected by the next recession to hit (later this year or early 2019).

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Originally Posted by time4fun

Jesus.

You know, I think we all have fundamentally understood that you have had some emotional issues that you've been working through on these forums for years. But, tonight is actually the first time I realized- you actually can't help yourself. I don't mean that in an accusing way- I mean that in a very sincere, apologetic, way.

I'm writing to a grown man who is typing in all caps and saying things like, "You still have that persistent diarrhea from HiV?", who has currently picked a fight with no fewer than 4 people in a thread because they said something he didn't agree with, and who is accusing everyone around him of being out of control- while posting 12-15 times an hour.

And he's doing it in a forum for a game he hasn't played in years. A forum with a rep system that he has spent an inordinate amount of time learning to manipulate in order to punish people who make him feel lesser in any way- less intelligent, less knowledgeable, less reasonable, less successful, etc.


And this grown man finds these slights- intentional or not- from complete strangers to be so painful that the punishment lasts for months- even after he thinks someone is gone. It enrages him, and he cannot help himself after that. He has to "even the score", prove to himself that these other people who make him feel lesser are actually the ones who are lesser. That doesn't make you a bad person. It just makes you ill. And that means that pushing back on you is actually the equivalent of judging someone who is autistic for not making eye contact. It's cruel.

And for my part, I'm sorry. I hope that you do get some help at some point, or, at least, that this forum provides you with the outlet you need to keep yourself from pouring this rage and pain into your real relationships. And I will do my best to stop putting you in positions that trigger a compulsive set of behaviors that you can't control.

Because I'm realizing tonight that your behavior isn't unfair towards others- it's an unfair reality you're forced to live with.

And I would encourage others to recognize the same and to treat you with some more compassion.

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If you were really serious about helping me, I think the best step in my rehabilitation would be for you to stop posting on the Internet.

I have a very serious condition known as Stultusitis. Without your help and assistance, I doubt I will ever be rid of this problem.

Thank you for your understanding, compassion and cooperation while I deal with this.

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Originally Posted by cwolff

know what's really fucked up? This dude PB can probably own guns.

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Do you think he’s going to go on a shooting spree because he says mean things to you on a text game forum?

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Originally Posted by Fortybox

Yeah, the world was going to end.

Instead, because of Trump, she is doing extremely well. We basically have to hear how wonderful her life is everyday on lnet. She is even doing so well from the tax cuts that she is funding the ACLU (really, she said that)!

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I bet she donated like $10, therefore she’s bankrolling them now.

I like how they’re still clinging onto “You made X posts in a row that means you’re soooooo mad!”

Like most things in life that involve not being a bitter cunt, the joke is sailing way over her head.

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Originally Posted by Ashliana

"LOOK AT HOW MUCH I'M NOT THINKING ABOUT YOU!" -- Parkbandit, the guy who's spent 10+ years leaving bigoted, angrily sexualized messages to strangers on the Internet, as fast as he can.

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Serious question...how much time do you think it takes to leave rep? You sound like it takes you several minutes to leave one rep. How long does it take you to leave rep?

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Originally Posted by time4fun

Jesus.

You know, I think we all have fundamentally understood that you have had some emotional issues that you've been working through on these forums for years. But, tonight is actually the first time I realized- you actually can't help yourself. I don't mean that in an accusing way- I mean that in a very sincere, apologetic, way.

I'm writing to a grown man who is typing in all caps and saying things like, "You still have that persistent diarrhea from HiV?", who has currently picked a fight with no fewer than 4 people in a thread because they said something he didn't agree with, and who is accusing everyone around him of being out of control- while posting 12-15 times an hour.

And he's doing it in a forum for a game he hasn't played in years. A forum with a rep system that he has spent an inordinate amount of time learning to manipulate in order to punish people who make him feel lesser in any way- less intelligent, less knowledgeable, less reasonable, less successful, etc.


And this grown man finds these slights- intentional or not- from complete strangers to be so painful that the punishment lasts for months- even after he thinks someone is gone. It enrages him, and he cannot help himself after that. He has to "even the score", prove to himself that these other people who make him feel lesser are actually the ones who are lesser. That doesn't make you a bad person. It just makes you ill. And that means that pushing back on you is actually the equivalent of judging someone who is autistic for not making eye contact. It's cruel.

And for my part, I'm sorry. I hope that you do get some help at some point, or, at least, that this forum provides you with the outlet you need to keep yourself from pouring this rage and pain into your real relationships. And I will do my best to stop putting you in positions that trigger a compulsive set of behaviors that you can't control.

Because I'm realizing tonight that your behavior isn't unfair towards others- it's an unfair reality you're forced to live with.

And I would encourage others to recognize the same and to treat you with some more compassion.

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https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AmusedSlim...restricted.gif

This is a quadruple post to point out my TRIPLE POST!

According to the PC post police, how mad does this make me?

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Originally Posted by cwolff

This article surprised me so I googled it. Politifact gives it a solid TRUE – The statement is accurate and there’s nothing significant missing.



That hits me right in my politics. I'm running into the same shit here in Denver though. Housing prices are going up fast. One house in my neighborhood sold at 381k last year. It could do 430k this year. Between that and the stock market, it feels like that next recession is indeed just around the corner. I wanted to buy a house last year and was appalled at the prices but ended up breaking my leg at work and was on workers comp in the few months before my apt. lease expired, so I re-upped the lease for 1 year. Now I'm stressing about buying this year and getting in to a property at the peak of the bubble

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Sounds like you are renting based on your comments. I wouldn't be buying at this time if it were me but Denver has a lot of good things going for it. Who knows if it really is at the peak - local markets are so different.

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Originally Posted by Methais

This is a quadruple post to point out my TRIPLE POST!

According to the PC post police, how mad does this make me?

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Well according to time4funz you cannot post multiple times AND not play Gemstone. So you're like super duper mad but not as mad as someone who posts many times and doesn't play Gemstone.

My favorite part of the stupidity is that they are legitimately suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome and have been for 2 years now. Literally crying about the election results.. like WTF? REALLY?

And NOW all of a sudden, they have control of their emotions and have just been posting and posting and posting about mean President Trump.. and can now offer mental health assessments by counting the number of posts you make in a row.

Holy fuck... just when I thought they can't possibly get any dumber: BOOM... and prove me wrong.

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Originally Posted by Fortybox

Sounds like you are renting based on your comments. I wouldn't be buying at this time if it were me but Denver has a lot of good things going for it. Who knows if it really is at the peak - local markets are so different.

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Exactly. I hate to buy now but I moved back here purposefully, not a random transfer or anything. We'll probably suck it up, save save save, and be ready to weather the next rainy day

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Originally Posted by cwolff

Exactly. I hate to buy now but I moved back here purposefully, not a random transfer or anything. We'll probably suck it, save save save, and be ready to weather the next rainy day

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Buy now.

It's sort of a seller's market currently, but the interest rates will be going up. If you can lock in a low interest rate now, you will end up saving money in the long run.. even if you are buying at the top end of the property value.

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Buy now.

It's sort of a seller's market currently, but the interest rates will be going up. If you can lock in a low interest rate now, you will end up saving money in the long run.. even if you are buying at the top end of the property value.

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Good advice...assuming you'll keep your home for awhile. I don't think this upcoming recession is all that big of a deal (not 2008). The one I am worried about is around 2030 with the way demographic trends are heading. Make sure you completely own your home by then.

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Originally Posted by Fortybox

Good advice...assuming you'll keep your home for awhile. I don't think this upcoming recession is all that big of a deal (not 2008). The one I am worried about is around 2030 with the way demographic trends are heading. Make sure you completely own your home by then.

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Very true. I just assumed he was looking for long term housing and not using the house as an investment.

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Originally Posted by Adrian

Forty knows... he knows!

http://i.imgur.com/Nq8yVh4.gif

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It's a mathematical certainty.

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Originally Posted by Fortybox

Well according to time4funz you cannot post multiple times AND not play Gemstone. So you're like super duper mad but not as mad as someone who posts many times and doesn't play Gemstone.

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Does it matter that I wasn’t playing GS at the time I posted? I still play, I just wasn’t actively doing stuff in game at the time, possibly not even logged in.

I wish someone would create a chart that covers all this so we can find out how mad we are when we point out time4stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

My favorite part of the stupidity is that they are legitimately suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome and have been for 2 years now. Literally crying about the election results.. like WTF? REALLY?

And NOW all of a sudden, they have control of their emotions and have just been posting and posting and posting about mean President Trump.. and can now offer mental health assessments by counting the number of posts you make in a row.

Holy fuck... just when I thought they can't possibly get any dumber: BOOM... and prove me wrong.

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The best part is how they think anyone at all outside their circle jerk of WAAAAHHHHHH is taking them seriously and finds them insightful vs. just being massively retarded, + claims of stalking over bringing up dumb shit they’ve said before in this very same thread or leaving rep, which apparently 2 clicks of a mouse takes a very long time for some people on here to do and is very difficult and intensive. lol:

I can’t wait until the day after midterms.

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Originally Posted by Methais

Does it matter that I wasn’t playing GS at the time I posted? I still play, I just wasn’t actively doing stuff in game at the time, possibly not even logged in.

I wish someone would create a chart that covers all this so we can find out how mad we are when we point out time4stupidity.

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https://media1.giphy.com/media/av1nQt7V11E9a/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Methais

The best part is how they think anyone at all outside their circle jerk of WAAAAHHHHHH is taking them seriously and finds them insightful vs. just being massively retarded, + claims of stalking over bringing up dumb shit they’ve said before in this very same thread or leaving rep, which apparently 2 clicks of a mouse takes a very long time for some people on here to do and is very difficult and intensive. lol:

I can’t wait until the day after midterms.

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I'm not surprised PB's falling for it, but how do you of all people not know when you're being trolled?

Manafort's lawyers are saying the guy who showed the storage unit to the FBI was a low level employee and had no business letting the FBI take a look inside. Turns out that person's name was on the lease. Turns out that person's name was the only name on the lease. Sorry Manafort :/

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Manafort's lawyers are saying the guy who showed the storage unit to the FBI was a low level employee and had no business letting the FBI take a look inside. Turns out that person's name was on the lease. Turns out that person's name was the only name on the lease. Sorry Manafort :/

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Yeah, he has a very slim chance of this actually working as a legal argument.

It could well work as a political narrative though. He's basically trying to play off of the whole FBI/Deep State/Abuse of Power thing that Trump's defenders have been trying to create. At this point in time, Manafort's best chance of living life outside of prison is to hope that narrative takes hold- freeing Trump to pardon him.

Mueller is no fool though. I'm increasingly convinced that his early obstruction report is his check mate move. If Mueller lays out a pattern of behavior consistent with obstruction of justice in his report, Manafort will flip shortly after. If not, Trump will be emboldened to shut the investigation down, and he'll pardon Manafort (and anyone else he wants).

OMGOMGOMG GUYS!!!! GUYS!!!!!! THIS IS IT!!111 FINALLY AFTER ALL THESE OTHER TIMES OF BEING IT THIS IS ACTUALLY IT!!111 IT'S HEATING UP NOW GUYS!!!11

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Originally Posted by Wrathbringer

OMGOMGOMG GUYS!!!! GUYS!!!!!! THIS IS IT!!111 FINALLY AFTER ALL THESE OTHER TIMES OF BEING IT THIS IS ACTUALLY IT!!111 IT'S HEATING UP NOW GUYS!!!11

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https://media.giphy.com/media/9Dw95n3X406Ag/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Manafort's lawyers are saying the guy who showed the storage unit to the FBI was a low level employee and had no business letting the FBI take a look inside. Turns out that person's name was on the lease. Turns out that person's name was the only name on the lease. Sorry Manafort :/

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Was he just a bagel guy? Or maybe he was to manafort what manafort was to trump; just a low level dude who was only there for a short time? LOL. These fucks have no shame. Straight up lying. I don't even blame them because their followers love it. They dig trumps lie and eat it up.

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Originally Posted by cwolff

Was he just a bagel guy? Or maybe he was to manafort what manafort was to trump; just a low level dude who was only there for a short time? LOL. These fucks have no shame. Straight up lying. I don't even blame them because their followers love it. They dig trumps lie and eat it up.

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Yeah, it's become a VERY predictable response. My boyfriend and I have a running joke about how hard it is to find good interns these days every time someone from his campaign gets indicted or ends up being caught knee deep in the GRU.

Nothing surprising here, but Christopher Wylie is going to be meeting with Mueller:

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Wylie tells NBC's "Meet the Press" that he plans to meet with "both Congressional investigations and also law enforcement and the Department of Justice." Democrats on a House Intelligence Panel have previously said they would interview Wylie.

Special counsel Robert Mueller was appointed by the Justice Department to run the election probe and has been scrutinizing connections between Cambridge Analytica and Trump's Republican campaign.

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Honestly, if they need him to provide evidence that the Trump campaign misused that data then this is going to be a tough climb. He needs someone else to whistleblow with some hard evidence at this point, and Wylie has been clear that he doesn't have it.

Though it's always possible Bannon will cooperate and provide testimony for it- which means they would use Wylie as a corroborating witness.

There's an equal possibility that the data wasn't used for the Trump campaign, or that what they did isn't actually illegal. The case law for the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act is really fuzzy on this, and honestly there are very good reasons not to try to convince the Courts to apply the CFAA to civilian situations like this. (Or suddenly sharing passwords is potentially a felony). This is REALLY not my area though- so there may be other laws that could more clearly apply to this situation that I'm not aware of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

Yeah, it's become a VERY predictable response. My boyfriend and I have a running joke about how hard it is

---

https://m.popkey.co/e528fb/l4bN_f-ma..._s-200x150.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wrathbringer

OMGOMGOMG GUYS!!!! GUYS!!!!!! THIS IS IT!!111 FINALLY AFTER ALL THESE OTHER TIMES OF BEING IT THIS IS ACTUALLY IT!!111 IT'S HEATING UP NOW GUYS!!!11

---

Really getting hot now.

https://youtu.be/OUISmCzLPTA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

Nothing surprising here, but Christopher Wylie is going to be meeting with Mueller:



Honestly, if they need him to provide evidence that the Trump campaign misused that data then this is going to be a tough climb. He needs someone else to whistleblow with some hard evidence at this point, and Wylie has been clear that he doesn't have it.

Though it's always possible Bannon will cooperate and provide testimony for it- which means they would use Wylie as a corroborating witness.

There's an equal possibility that the data wasn't used for the Trump campaign, or that what they did isn't actually illegal. The case law for the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act is really fuzzy on this, and honestly there are very good reasons not to try to convince the Courts to apply the CFAA to civilian situations like this. (Or suddenly sharing passwords is potentially a felony). This is REALLY not my area though- so there may be other laws that could more clearly apply to this situation that I'm not aware of.

---

Would be nice to know what Bannon and Mueller talked about during his deposition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

My boyfriend and I have a running joke about how hard it is to find a guy like him that will let me do things to him like this:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d358...itemid=5664429

---

https://i.imgur.com/PEkBoao.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

Would be nice to know what Bannon and Mueller talked about during his deposition.

---

Probably what we are going to do to handle all the democrat tears when he ends the witch hunt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neveragain

Probably what we are going to do to handle all the democrat tears when he ends the witch hunt.

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My source on the inside said all they did was read this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methais

My source on the inside said all they did was read this thread.

---

My sources read this thread but had time4dung, cloaf and hemorrhoidpk on ignore.

Necro got wrecked again. :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methais

Necro got wrecked again. :lol:

---

I was wondering why there were extra pages here with nothing on them. :lol:

eta: what a tard

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wrathbringer

:lol:

---

:lol:

So LawFare did a great piece on how exactly Mueller might be allowed to write an interim obstruction report, and how Rosenstein might be able to release it. They basically conclude that there are legal possibilities, but that none of them are especially airtight. They (rightly) point out that if this isn't all done 100% by the book, it will immediately be open to criticism. If it exonerates Trump, then it looks suspiciously like they were pressured to bend the rules to let the public know that. If it doesn't exonerate Trump, it starts playing into the Deep State hysteria.

Most of what I've seen out there seems to focus on 8 USC § 600.8 and 8 USC § 600.9- both of which are definitely open to some loose interpretation allowing for the public release of an interim report, but honestly, focusing there falls into the aforementioned trap. If they do decide to go with 8 USC § 600.8a(2) [which requires Mueller to give Rosenstein a full update of the investigation along with his annual budget request], then the report will be issued to Rosenstein July 1st.

But it seems that there are actually two less talked about ways for Rosenstein and Mueller to make this interim report happen:

The first:
I haven't seen anyone discussing this anywhere, so it's quite possible that I'm just misunderstanding the context of the statute. But technically 28 USC § 600.7(b) allows Rosenstein to "request that the Special Counsel provide an explanation for any investigative or prosecutorial step". That would undoubtedly include the decision to shut down a part of the investigation.

From there, 8 USC § 600.9(c) allows for the release of "other releases of information" [aside from the appointment or dismissal or Mueller as well as the conclusion of Mueller's work] as long as it's in compliance with USAM Chapter 1-7.000. The thing about that section is that it repeatedly, and expressly gives the Assistant AG the ability to approve public disclosure of information that wouldn't normally be allowed under the guidelines. Whereas Comey (loosely) used USAM Chapter 1-7.400(c) to essentially go rogue and hold a press conference without Lynch's approval, Rosenstein technically doesn't need a justification. Though the aforementioned statute as well as USAM Chapter 1-7.500(d) both technically allow for a public release of Mueller's findings.

The Second:

So this one is sort of interesting. For those who don't know, Mueller wasn't technically appointed through the Special Counsel provisions, he was appointed through 28 U.S.C. §§ 509, 510, and 515. (He did end up saying that most of the Special Counsel provision does apply to Mueller though) He's able to do so because in regards to the Russia and Obstruction investigations, he is effectively the acting Attorney General. And he's the Acting Attorney General for only these investigations. (or singular investigation- that part still remains murky) 28 U.S.C. § 529 actually requires the Attorney General to submit an annual report to Congress every June 1st. That report includes "any violation of Federal criminal law by any individual who holds or who at the time of such violation held a position, whether or not elective, as a Federal Government officer, employee, or special employee, if such violation relates directly or indirectly to such individual’s Federal Government position, employment, or compensation".

There's also a catch-all for "anything else deemed appropriate". Arguably, in his capacity of Acting AG for Mueller's investigation, you could interpret the statue as requiring Rosenstein to update Congress on the investigation. Now there's a provision in there that precludes sharing information that would " disclose information which would interfere with any pending investigation or prosecution" [emphasis mine]. If Mueller has closed out the obstruction investigation by June 1st, then Rosenstein would only have to issue a report on that piece of the investigation (since the Russia/Collusion investigation is still ongoing). So that's another way to get the information out- though I'm skeptical of this timeline since Trump hasn't agreed to an interview yet.

Frankly, if Trump's lawyers are smart they'll delay the interview until after July 1st.

Both methods seem a little unorthodox- let me know if anyone has any information that would back up or break down either of these options.

The FBI raided Michael Cohen's office today. :popcorn:

The F.B.I. on Monday raided the office of President Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, seizing records related to several topics including payments to a pornographic-film actress.

Federal prosecutors in Manhattan obtained the search warrant after receiving a referral from the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to Mr. Cohen’s lawyer, who called the search “completely inappropriate and unnecessary.” The search does not appear to be directly related to Mr. Mueller’s investigation, but likely resulted from information he had uncovered and gave to prosecutors in New York.

“Today the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York executed a series of search warrants and seized the privileged communications between my client, Michael Cohen, and his clients,” said Stephen Ryan, his lawyer. “I have been advised by federal prosecutors that the New York action is, in part, a referral by the Office of Special Counsel, Robert Mueller.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/u...?smid=pl-share

"The payments to Ms. Clifford are only one of many topics being investigated, according to a person briefed on the search."

Hahaha, thays great. Just saw Clyder post this too. Ducking A. This couldn't happen to a nicer guy

FBI agents seized tax documents, business records, and possibly items related to Stormy Daniels case from Michael Cohen's office (our first indication that Mueller may be looking at campaign-finance violations/crimes by Trump, Cohen and/or others).

:rofl:

#MAGA, Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.

And FYI, if you didn't know, the FBI raiding Cohen's office -- breaking Trump/Cohen's attorney/client privilege -- means they suspect him, Cohen himself, of being involved in an ongoing criminal enterprise. Classic.

What's the rationale here, conservatrolls?

"HURRR, NOPE, STILL ICE COLD, HURR"

So aside from Mueller's investigation there is another FBI investigation into Trump's inner circle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

The FBI raided Michael Cohen's office today. :popcorn:

The F.B.I. on Monday raided the office of President Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, seizing records related to several topics including payments to a pornographic-film actress.

Federal prosecutors in Manhattan obtained the search warrant after receiving a referral from the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to Mr. Cohen’s lawyer, who called the search “completely inappropriate and unnecessary.” The search does not appear to be directly related to Mr. Mueller’s investigation, but likely resulted from information he had uncovered and gave to prosecutors in New York.

“Today the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York executed a series of search warrants and seized the privileged communications between my client, Michael Cohen, and his clients,” said Stephen Ryan, his lawyer. “I have been advised by federal prosecutors that the New York action is, in part, a referral by the Office of Special Counsel, Robert Mueller.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/u...?smid=pl-share

"The payments to Ms. Clifford are only one of many topics being investigated, according to a person briefed on the search."

---

Wow. Seems like this probably came as a result of the recent Trump Org subpoena.

I wonder if Mueller is trying to get him to flip? Given Cohen was involved in the Trump Moscow deal, and he shows up in the dossier- I have a hard time believing Mueller's team doesn't care what happens next. I'm guessing he had to refer this to another division because what they found probably doesn't directly relate to his mandate.

(Edited because I just realized that I've read several plea agreements that were struck between multiple agencies)

Even if he doesn't flip it's likely he just became a witness in Mueller's investigation. Is he going to fall on the sword for Trump again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

Even if he doesn't flip it's likely he just became a witness in Mueller's investigation. Is he going to fall on the sword for Trump again?

---

Cohen isn't going to agree to be a cooperative witness unless he gets something out of it. He could just plead the 5th all day long. This raid was done dramatically and in broad daylight for a reason- they're trying to pressure him into cooperating.

Or they're trying to scare someone else perhaps.

So.... still no collusion?

Shocked.

Risky Political Prediction Time. We're getting to that point where we can start issuing our risky (i.e. based on woefully incomplete information) predictions.

What's your risky prediction about the investigation?

There are a lot of assumptions being made in this prediction, so there's a LOT of room for error. But here's my risky prediction:

1) Mueller has determined that DoJ guidelines prevent him from indicting a sitting President. He will issue a factual obstruction report without any direct conclusions but which clearly, implicitly leads to one conclusion: that Trump obstructed justice. The report will include some discussion of the fact that DoJ guidelines prevent indictment of a sitting President.

2) There will be no charges related to Russia/Collusion against Manafort or any of Trump's family until after the obstruction report comes out. Mueller is well aware of Trump's Pardon power- which is why the charges against Flynn, Mueller, and Gates have all been for financial crimes and lying to the FBI. Pardoning them for these crimes would look terrible.

3) Manafort is using every legal strategy in the book to stall his cases right now because he's waiting for a Trump Pardon. Trump is waiting until Mueller's office adds Russia/Collusion charges to his indictments before issuing a Pardon. The plan is to argue that since this is a "politically motivated witch hunt", they are bogus charges- though Mueller's financial crimes indictments seriously- and intentionally- undercut any arguments that Manafort is somehow an "innocent victim" in all of this.

3) The obstruction report will come out this summer and will mention the fact that Trump had Dowd offer a pardon to Manafort and Flynn as an example of Federal witness tampering (which is one of the classic examples of obstruction). Once he has listed that as an example of Trump's obstruction, it becomes politically very dangerous to start issuing Pardons to people who are serious targets in the investigation, and Mueller has actually made it legally dangerous at that point too.

4) Realizing he's not going to get a Pardon, Manafort will immediately flip and provide damning evidence against someone or someoneS of consequence in the Russia/Collusion investigation.

5) Then the Russia/Collusion-related indictments will start coming out



It would explain the following-
-Why Gates and Flynn both got the plea deal of a lifetime (you don't get that unless you have something of very high value to offer- given the severity of their potential crimes)
-Why Manafort refuses to work out a plea deal with Mueller
-Why Mueller is planning on issuing a separate obstruction report relatively quickly (according to reporting anyway)
-Why Mueller is planning on issuing an interim report at all
-Why there are no indictments directly related to Russia/Collusion as of yet (except against Russian nationals)



Big Risks-

-Mueller may very well decide after interviewing Trump that he can't prove corrupt intent

-Mueller may actually be releasing an early "interim" report because the obstruction investigation was actually a separate investigation from Russia/Collusion. Meaning it's not actually an interim report at all

-Trump may decide to fire Mueller instead of interviewing with him, or he may decide to preemptively Pardon Manafort (though it would look terrible to give a blanket Pardon to anything related to illegal activity involving Russia/Collusion activities without having specific allegations to argue against)

-Reporting may be inaccurate on a number of fronts- including the interim report, the Gates plea deal, Manafort waiting for a Pardon, Dowd having dangled a Pardon in front of Flynn and Manafort, etc.

-Manafort may genuinely be holding out because he has no information on Russia/Collusion to offer. (Though this is made less likely by the reporting on the terms of Gates's plea deal)

Look at all this time and effort she puts into formatting her PC posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelston

Look at all this time and effort she puts into formatting her PC posts.

---

Habit from work

I think Kushner, Don jr, Stone, Assange and Cohen will be charged with an assortment of crimes. The obstruction report is going to finger Trump.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

I think Kushner, Don jr, Stone, Assange and Cohen will be charged with an assortment of crimes. The obstruction report is going to finger Trump.

---

Come on, you can be more specific than that!

This is supposed to be your risky prediction. The one that you know carries a lot of chances to be wrong because you're missing so much information, and because it's so far out.

The fun is in trying to find explanations that connect all of the dots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelston

Look at all this time and effort she puts into formatting her PC posts.

---

If posting 3 times in a row means you are upset.. what does spending all that time typing and formatting political posts on a 20 year old roleplaying game forum mean?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

I think Kushner, Don jr, Stone, Assange and Cohen will be charged with an assortment of crimes. The obstruction report is going to finger Trump.

---

So, will President Trump be charged with something to do with his involvement with Russian election tampering or not?

Isn't that what this whole thing is about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Isn't that what this whole thing is about?

---

No, it's a multifaceted investigation. The only reason why there is a special counsel investigation is because Trump fired Comey then bragged about it.

https://i.imgur.com/tnxJYa4.jpg

And just so the class is clear- warrants require evidence.

Mueller's team has issued a lot of warrants- which means they have a lot of evidence.

And if they were able to breach attorney/client privilege- then that means they suspect that Cohen was involved in illicit activities as Trump's lawyer.

I imagine they'd need a lot of evidence to convince a judge to authorize a raid on a lawyer like this. The judge and AG who approved this are Trump hires, too.

Quote:

---

Trump calls Cohen raid “a disgraceful situation,” a “witch hunt,” an “attack on our country,” and again criticizes Sessions for recusing himself

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

So, will President Trump be charged with something to do with his involvement with Russian election tampering or not?

Isn't that what this whole thing is about?

---

The scary thing for trump had always been that mueller would follow the money and find money laundering on behalf of trump. This isn’t a secret and has been well-documented.

Now you have Cohen wrapped up in this stormy Daniels thing, where he’s being investigated for bank fraud and campaign finance violations. Trump is at least a witness in this or at worst a co-conspirator.

Hopefully trump tries to fire rosenstein over this. Rosenstein did go to the FBI in regards to Cohen after muellers recommendation.

Also, the funny thing is, so many trump supporters are cool with him being a criminal as long as he didn’t conspire with Russia. So much more will come out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

And just so the class is clear- warrants require evidence.

Mueller's team has issued a lot of warrants- which means they have a lot of evidence.

And if they were able to breach attorney/client privilege- then that means they suspect that Cohen was involved in illicit activities as Trump's lawyer.

---

And they just turned this all over to the SDNY office. Meaning if Mueller gets fired there's still an ongoing FBI investigation into laundering/bank fraud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SHAFT

The scary thing for trump had always been that mueller would follow the money and find money laundering on behalf of trump. This isn’t a secret and has been well-documented.

Now you have Cohen wrapped up in this stormy Daniels thing, where he’s being investigated for bank fraud and campaign finance violations. Trump is at least a witness in this or at worst a co-conspirator.

Hopefully trump tries to fire rosenstein over this. Rosenstein did go to the FBI in regards to Cohen after muellers recommendation.

Also, the funny thing is, so many trump supporters are cool with him being a criminal as long as he didn’t conspire with Russia. So much more will come out.

---

Bannon, as scummy as he is, was absolutely spot on when he said Trump's decision to fire Comey may go down in history as one of the dumbest political moves ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

Bannon, as scummy as he is, was absolutely spot on when he said Trump's decision to fire Comey may go down in history as one of the dumbest political moves ever.

---

Trump hires the best people! Ivanka and Jared pushed hard to fire comey.

Here's an interesting comment I found.

Quote:

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As a lawyer of 35 years, this is one of the most significant developments in the Mueller investigation.

It is extraordinarily hard to convince a judge, who is a former lawyer himself or herself, to pierce the attorney/client privilege and work product doctrine to issue a subpoena and seize material subject to those sacred protections.


The judge must be convinced that Cohen's records will demonstrate substantial criminal activity.


This may be "Black Monday" for Donald Trump.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

And just so the class is clear- warrants require evidence.

Mueller's team has issued a lot of warrants- which means they have a lot of evidence.

And if they were able to breach attorney/client privilege- then that means they suspect that Cohen was involved in illicit activities as Trump's lawyer.

---

The "class", huh? You're retarded.

Also, OMGOMGOMG IT"S FINALLY HAPPENING FOR REAL REAL THIS TIME GUYS!!!1!11 IT'S HEATING UP OH GOD IT'S HOT!!!11

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

Here's an interesting comment I found.

---

Yeah- attorney-client privilege is one of the bedrocks of our legal system. Whatever evidence they had going in must have been significant.

The one thing that sticks out though- Trump apparently knew about this raid before he was told about it.

Which makes you wonder if Cohen knew ahead of time as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SHAFT

The scary thing for trump had always been that mueller would follow the money and find money laundering on behalf of trump. This isn’t a secret and has been well-documented.

Now you have Cohen wrapped up in this stormy Daniels thing, where he’s being investigated for bank fraud and campaign finance violations. Trump is at least a witness in this or at worst a co-conspirator.

Hopefully trump tries to fire rosenstein over this. Rosenstein did go to the FBI in regards to Cohen after muellers recommendation.

Also, the funny thing is, so many trump supporters are cool with him being a criminal as long as he didn’t conspire with Russia. So much more will come out.

---

The scary thing is how many Trump supports are cool with him being a criminal who DID conspire with Russia.

I do agree with some of the other assessments here though- Trump's liable to start getting impulsive soon. That means that either he'll rush into an interview to "prove" his innocence (and to separate himself from Cohen), or he's going to do something drastic like force Sessions to resign. If Sessions resigns, Trump can install someone in his place temporarily without having to go through Senate confirmation.

Though Mueller and Rosenstein were VERY smart to refer this out to the FBI. It insulates them from direct retaliation.

Quote:

---

Do you know what kind of evidence you would have to present to a federal judge to get him to sign a warrant to raid the President's personal attorney's office?

Sure, technically the standard is still probable cause. But in reality, holy shit. The evidence they presented to that judge had to be overwhelming. And the DoJ has many extra procedures you have to jump through, and get approval at the highest levels of the Department, before seeking a warrant on an attorney's office. But the President's attorney's office?


My first reaction as a judge would be, "You want me to sign what??"


Edit: This was a no knock, bust the doors down type of warrant and raid. (See my edit below on this.) So in addition to the probable cause for the search, they had to convince the judge that if they knocked on the door and presented the warrant through the normal course of business, documents would have been destroyed. This is extreme.


As Bill Kristol just said: "This is sending a message. This is war."


Update: They also raided his luxury hotel room simultaneously. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018...new-york-hotel


Edit: The only source for my "no knock" comment was on live CNN TV, on Jake Tapper's show. I cannot find any written source that confirms this as a "no knock" warrant. So until further notice, take this part of my comment with a grain of salt. Whether it was or not, is a very minor detail, we shouldn't care much about anyway. They raided the president's attorney's office and home. A BFD to use the words of our great former VP.


Edit: 5:31PM Eastern: Wolf Blitzer just confirmed on live TV it was in fact a "no knock" warrant.


Update: MSNBC reporting they've raided Cohen's actual home as well. He was staying in a hotel because a water pipe burst in his home, and was being repaired. So they've raided his office, hotel room, and home.

---

:popcorn:

OMGOMGOMG!!!!!111!1

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...sheh5pshk.jpeg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

And they just turned this all over to the SDNY office. Meaning if Mueller gets fired there's still an ongoing FBI investigation into laundering/bank fraud.

---

Ya baby. That's our sleeper there. I have a lot of hope riding on SDNY

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

Bannon, as scummy as he is, was absolutely spot on when he said Trump's decision to fire Comey may go down in history as one of the dumbest political moves ever.

---

I almost miss Bannon now. Kind of like how I catch myself looking back fondly on W's presidency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

:popcorn:

---

Ditto

Anyone watching MSNBC? Chis Mathews opened his show with these words:

"Today the FBI raided the offices of the personal attorney to the President of the United States of America"

That kind of impacted me. It's straight news, no spin, but a heavy heavy sentence.

Time4fun, What do you mean Trump knew before he was told?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

The only reason why there is a special counsel investigation is because Trump fired Comey then bragged about it.

---

https://media.giphy.com/media/2Tn10AXN6B98k/giphy.gif

The Director of the FBI is employed at the will of the President of the United States and can be terminated at any time and for whatever reason.

The President can brag about whatever he wants.

Neither one is against any law.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...soemkomms.jpeg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

https://media.giphy.com/media/2Tn10AXN6B98k/giphy.gif

The Director of the FBI is employed at the will of the President of the United States and can be terminated at any time and for whatever reason.

The President can brag about whatever he wants.

Neither one is against any law.

---

I don’t think you grasped what he was saying.

Time to pierce this veil of privilege.

Quote:

---

Trump Jr. cites attorney-client privilege in not answering panel's questions about discussions with his father

---

Then there's this. Akward!

Quote:

---

WASHINGTON – Today Republican National Committee (RNC) Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and RNC Finance Chairman Steve Wynn announced additional members of the RNC’s Finance leadership team:
“I am delighted to announce the addition of these longtime friends of the Party and supporters of this administration to our Finance leadership team,” said Chairwoman McDaniel. “Elliott Broidy, Michael Cohen, and Louis DeJoy will serve as National Deputy Finance Chairmen, and Brian Ballard, Bob Grand, Gordon Sondland, Geoff Verhoff, and Ron Weiser will serve as Regional Vice-Chairmen. Together this team will employ their extraordinary talent and understanding of Americans across the country to maintain and build upon our unprecedented fundraising success.”

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

The scary thing is how many Trump supports are cool with him being a criminal who DID conspire with Russia.

---

That's very, very wishful "thinking" on your part... given there has been absolutely no evidence to support that.

It's also wishful "thinking" that somehow Hillary will somehow become President over this.

Sorry you're retarded :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SHAFT

I don’t think you grasped what he was saying.

---

I don't want you having another meltdown.. but what he said was:

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xL...VFtu/giphy.gif

Here is the reason for the appointment of a Special Counsel:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...atters.pdf.jpg

Good luck trying to figure it out, PB

Obstruction of justice has been a major point of this investigation since day 1 and it's also the first part of the investigation that will be wrapped up and presented to the public/Congress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SHAFT

Good luck trying to figure it out, PB

---

He doesn't want to figure it it, he just wants to act like the idiot he is and sling shit everywhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

https://media.giphy.com/media/2Tn10AXN6B98k/giphy.gif

The Director of the FBI is employed at the will of the President of the United States and can be terminated at any time and for whatever reason.

The President can brag about whatever he wants.

Neither one is against any law.

---

This is a factually incorrect statement. The President may not use his powers with "corrupt intent". SCOTUS has been very clear about this. Nixon learned this the hard way as well.

Think of it this way- it's totally legal to throw old notebooks in the garbage.

And it's totally illegal to knowingly throw out old notebooks that contained critical evidence for an ongoing investigation in order to try to spare yourself jail time.

Fun factoid: while the Constitution gives the President the power to hire- it doesn't expressly grant the ability to fire. That's defined through case law and post-constitutional law.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

He doesn't want to figure it it, he just wants to act like the idiot he is and sling shit everywhere.

---

What you said was factually incorrect. I've included specifically why it was appointed. Don't be upset because you are a fool.

That's not slinging shit, that is stating a fact, based upon years of your political posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cwolff

Time to pierce this veil of privilege.



Then there's this. Akward!

---

Wow. I missed that. That's...not a good look for the RNC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cwolff

Ya baby. That's our sleeper there. I have a lot of hope riding on SDNY



I almost miss Bannon now. Kind of like how I catch myself looking back fondly on W's presidency.



Ditto

Anyone watching MSNBC? Chis Mathews opened his show with these words:

"Today the FBI raided the offices of the personal attorney to the President of the United States of America"

That kind of impacted me. It's straight news, no spin, but a heavy heavy sentence.

Time4fun, What do you mean Trump knew before he was told?

---

CNN reported this:

Quote:

---

A White House official said Trump had been watching TV reports of the FBI raiding Cohen's office, and that Trump knew about the raid before the news broke.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

What you said was factually incorrect. I've included specifically why it was appointed. Don't be upset because you are a fool.

That's not slinging shit, that is stating a fact, based upon years of your political posts.

---

Sorry, you're wrong. As usual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

CNN reported this:

---

Zomg! It’s happening!!!!

Hillary 4 prez!!11one

Thanks T4f.

One of the Fox "Judges" called this Seismic. He also did point out that the warrant was prepared or signed off by a Trump appointee. The guy who replaced Pareet Bahara.

I don't know if this a thing or not, but I'm flipping between Fox, MSNBC and CNN. Fox seems to be all commercials. It's frustrating. I wonder if either the other two bumped their commercials for the breaking news or Fox pumped it up to not highlight the breaking news. Or...I'm imagining things

Now Fox is all up in Syria news and slagging off on Obama. LMAO. Predictable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cwolff

Thanks T4f.

One of the Fox "Judges" called this Seismic. He also did point out that the warrant was prepared or signed off by a Trump appointee. The guy who replaced Pareet Bahara.

I don't know if this a thing or not, but I'm flipping between Fox, MSNBC and CNN. Fox seems to be all commercials. It's frustrating. I wonder if either the other two bumped their commercials for the breaking news or Fox pumped it up to not highlight the breaking news. Or...I'm imagining things

---

It's a thing in the sense that I don't think that the sentence, "The personal lawyer to the President of the United States has been subjected to a series of no-knock warrants for potential bank fraud, wire fraud, and election violations" has ever been uttered before today.

Again- it was nothing short of brilliant of Mueller and Rosenstein to refer this to the FBI instead of expanding the scope of their investigation.

The people who made the decisions to apply for- and grant of course- the warrant were not associated with the Mueller investigation. Retaliating against Mueller will be very difficult.

Fox News is nothing but pro-Trump propaganda. It's no wonder they're rated the least trustworthy news organization these days.

Quote:

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The Hoarse Whisperer

Best Infrastructure Week yet.

---

I agree with the Hoarse

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

It's a thing in the sense that...

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I mean the commercial breaks. When bad news for trump is cycling do right wing stations run more commercials. When bad news for trump is breaking do news organization run less commercials. I know they'll run less when there's breaking news but do stations run more when they want to blunt the news cycle?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cwolff

I mean the commercial breaks. When bad news for trump is cycling do right wing stations run more commercials. When bad news for trump is breaking do news organization run less commercials. I know they'll run less when there's breaking news but do stations run more when they want to blunt the news cycle?

---

OH. I think the networks just all time their commercial breaks at the same time so people don't channel surf and find another channel.

CNN is reporting that these warrants were largely related to Stormy Daniels, but they grabbed communications between Cohen and the Trump campaign as well, of course, as between Cohen and Trump.

Trump is mostly lashing out at Rosenstein and Sessions tonight.

I suspect he's considering trying to force Sessions to fire Rosenstein, and- if not- will try to force Sessions to resign.

https://images.axios.com/dhTnFPJNH4e...9867892905.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

OH. I think the networks just all time their commercial breaks at the same time so people don't channel surf and find another channel.

CNN is reporting that these warrants were largely related to Stormy Daniels, but they grabbed communications between Cohen and the Trump campaign as well, of course, as between Cohen and Trump.

Trump is mostly lashing out at Rosenstein and Sessions tonight.

I suspect he's considering trying to force Sessions to fire Rosenstein, and- if not- will try to force Sessions to resign.

---

His little speech today was crazy. "the other side" "witchhunt" and saying that it's mostly dems who worked for Obama and maybe a few republicans. The entire FBI is republican (generalizing but ya, they ain't liberals), and this all being done by his handpicked people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cwolff

His little speech today was crazy. "the other side" "witchhunt" and saying that it's mostly dems who worked for Obama and maybe a few republicans. The entire FBI is republican (generalizing but ya, they ain't liberals), and this all being done by his handpicked people.

---

He's panicked and just dropping everything he can to try to distract.

I think we're really close right now to him jumping over the edge. It makes me very nervous. Sessions has no spine- I don't trust him to do the right thing for the country.

And Republicans apparently feel like it's a great idea to set a precedent that a US President can decide for himself whether or not he's guilty of something and can immunize himself from the law.

How soon until he tells Bolton to wage war on Iran?

CNN is reporting that the raids were initiated by the FBI's Public Corruption division. Looks like likely Cohen lied to the bank about the purpose of the $130k loan he took out for Trump.

There are a lot of people who had to sign off on this- all basically Trump appointees.

Avenatti just called Cohen a "purse puppy." hahaha. I choked on my dinner and Anderson Cooper did a double take. It was hilarious.

Hey, the Butthurt Brigade is all here tonight! Hey guys! IT"S FINALLY HAPPENING!!!!1111

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

all basically Trump appointees.

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Vast left wing conspiracy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

He's panicked and just dropping everything he can to try to distract.

I think we're really close right now to him jumping over the edge. It makes me very nervous. Sessions has no spine- I don't trust him to do the right thing for the country.

And Republicans apparently feel like it's a great idea to set a precedent that a US President can decide for himself whether or not he's guilty of something and can immunize himself from the law.

---

You're so retarded. You're nervous? LOL cry more

Quote:

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According to court documents, one of Manafort’s former employees led an FBI agent to a storage locker filled with paperwork on Manafort’s businesses and finances. The person’s name is redacted from the filings. But he’s now at the center of a fight over evidence that could play a significant role in the government’s case against Manafort.

The agent describes meeting with “a former employee of Davis Manafort Partners, and a current employee of Steam Mountain, LLC, which is a business currently operated by Paul Manafort.” The employee, whose name is redacted throughout the affidavit, told the FBI agent that he “performs a variety of functions for Manafort and his companies as directed by Manafort,” and was salaried.


That employee moved boxes of files from one storage unit to a second, larger storage unit in Alexandria. On May 26, 2017––just nine days after Rod Rosenstein named Bob Mueller special counsel––the person whose name was redacted led the FBI agent to the storage facility. The facility’s manager gave the FBI agent a copy of the lease for the storage unit.

---

Interesting timeline here.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-seco...mpression=true

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

It makes me very nervous.

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http://www.anabolic-pharma.biz/conte...x-tablets.jpeg

Don't do it for you.. do it for the people who have to be around you.

Cohen's name was removed from the GOP's website.. :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Cohen's name was removed from the GOP's website.. :lol:

---

Slow to protect Mueller but quick to protect themselves.

Dershowitz is losing his mind. Is he trying to get hired by trump?

Interesting theory from Bill Kristol:

1. It may be no big deal that Mueller had SDNY execute the search warrants, since it's not as if different parts of DOJ wouldn't share information, if it was helpful to another's investigation. But is it crazy to think one reason might have been this:

2. Mueller knew there was a chance Trump would try to fire him and close down the Special Counsel's investigation once he learned of the raid. Mueller couldn't be sure who'd then be able to safeguard or who would have access to the Special Counsel's office's files.

3. So perhaps Mueller thought it safer to have these very sensitive Cohen-Trump documents in the possession of another part of DOJ a couple of hundred miles away from Main Justice, where there'd be no easy way for Trump or his agents to get at them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrathbringer

Hey, the Butthurt Brigade is all here tonight! Hey guys! IT"S FINALLY HAPPENING!!!!1111

---

https://media3.giphy.com/media/816QOYrqg1MME/giphy.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

http://www.anabolic-pharma.biz/conte...x-tablets.jpeg

Don't do it for you.. do it for the people who have to be around you.

---

.5 isn't enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cwolff

Interesting theory from Bill Kristol:

1. It may be no big deal that Mueller had SDNY execute the search warrants, since it's not as if different parts of DOJ wouldn't share information, if it was helpful to another's investigation. But is it crazy to think one reason might have been this:

2. Mueller knew there was a chance Trump would try to fire him and close down the Special Counsel's investigation once he learned of the raid. Mueller couldn't be sure who'd then be able to safeguard or who would have access to the Special Counsel's office's files.

3. So perhaps Mueller thought it safer to have these very sensitive Cohen-Trump documents in the possession of another part of DOJ a couple of hundred miles away from Main Justice, where there'd be no easy way for Trump or his agents to get at them.

---

Seems extreme. I'd wager that Mueller thought that having another part of the DoJ request warrant, it would provide cover for him and Rosenstein.

I had thought that too, but it's starting to look like Trump isn't going to let that something trivial like "Mueller didn't authorize any of this" get in the way of obstruction.

Fun side note- referring the matter was actually exactly what they were supposed to do. You're not supposed to pretend a crime didn't happen just because it's not under your purview.

I wonder why they used no-knock raids though. Did they suspect someone would try to destroy evidence? And if so how did they know that? Is someone in Trump's inner circle wearing a wire? Certainly sounds like it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

I wonder why they used no-knock raids though. Did they suspect someone would try to destroy evidence? And if so how did they know that? Is someone in Trump's inner circle wearing a wire? Certainly sounds like it.

---

I mean typically you would have to convince a judge that there was good reason to suspect Cohen would destroy evidence if given advance notice.

I'm guessing they found discrepancies in what he has submitted vs what other people have submitted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

I wonder why they used no-knock raids though. Did they suspect someone would try to destroy evidence? And if so how did they know that? Is someone in Trump's inner circle wearing a wire? Certainly sounds like it.

---

They took everyone's cell phones, or at least said they were in what December? And they did that because of leaks but it could also have been for bugging devices. I remember some talking head or article that said it's stressful in the WH because people are assuming that someone is wearing a wire.

This tweet below is related to the difference between being appointed by trump (which this guy wasn't but it's being reported that way) and being put in the job by Sessions. Just linking it in case anyone on the thread's interested.
https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/sta...22521063526400

Here's my risky bet. Trump has severe schizophrenia and he's wearing a wire and aiding Mueller and the FBI against his other self.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Here's my risky bet. Trump has severe schizophrenia and he's wearing a wire and aiding Mueller and the FBI against his other self.

---

Better logic than time4fun.

Alan Dershowitz on the Michael Cohen raid: “It’s a tactic generally used against organized crime, against very serious, very serious criminals and lawyers who are operating outside of the protections of the law.”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Here's my risky bet. Trump has severe schizophrenia and he's wearing a wire and aiding Mueller and the FBI against his other self.

---

My risky bet is that Mueller goes for the jugular legally, t's crossed and i's dotted, and trump shuts it down through some method that we've not even considered. Something brazen that shocks the nation. Publishing dirt on his opponents, Folding FBI into ICE or some such thing. An action that's BOLD and nation changing. So bold it stuns, even shocks the country. His base cheers and goes nuts like they just won the superbowl. The enthusiasm from this crowd and strategic bashing of Mueller getting shut down push others to finally go to the trump side because he's a "winner". Then the investigation dies, Dept. of Justice people find themselves on trial and trump becomes President until he passes away. President for life. At this point, I think this could be more probable than Mueller putting him away.

I'm counting on an "October surprise" to change everything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cwolff

My risky bet is that Mueller goes for the jugular legally, t's crossed and i's dotted, and trump shuts it down through some method that we've not even considered. Something brazen that shocks the nation. Publishing dirt on his opponents, Folding FBI into ICE or some such thing. An action that's BOLD and nation changing. So bold it stuns, even shocks the country. His base cheers and goes nuts like they just won the superbowl. The enthusiasm from this crowd and strategic bashing of Mueller getting shut down push others to finally go to the trump side because he's a "winner". Then the investigation dies, Dept. of Justice people find themselves on trial and trump becomes President until he passes away. President for life. At this point, I think this could be more probable than Mueller putting him away.

I'm counting on an "October surprise" to change everything.

---

Yeah we're getting closer and closer to some ham-fisted attempt to shut this down.

He won't go for Mueller directly (he actually can't). He'll pressure Sessions to either fire Rosenstein or resign. Session is going to have to decide if he has any patriotism left in him.

Technically I think Trump could rewrite the regulations to allow him to fire Mueller directly- or knowing him to allow someone else who will do as he says to fire Mueller directly. That would be the bold thing no one has thought of.

If Congress has any sense left in it- they'll pass legislation to protect Mueller ASAP. That won't stop Trump from trying to replace Sessions or Rosenstein (which would give a more subtle way to effectively kill the investigation), but it would send a message that Congress is taking this seriously.

Which, of course, is why it won't happen.

Firing Mueller isn't exactly black and white in regards to the grand jury. IIRC Preet Bharara has said the grand jury could continue the investigation on their own, a runaway jury. The only person who has the authority to disband the grand jury is the judge who started it in the first place.

The thing I don't understand is why on earth Republicans would want to set a precedent that allows a sitting President to effectively kill any investigation into them or anyone they want to protect.

Even if you don't think Trump did anything wrong- what about the next President who's under investigation? What if they're not?

It's just so short-sighted and dangerous. And for what, exactly? What possible short-term gain is worth jeopardizing the democracy of the US?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Firing Mueller isn't exactly black and white in regards to the grand jury. IIRC Preet Bharara has said the grand jury could continue the investigation on their own, a runaway jury. The only person who has the authority to disband the grand jury is the judge who started it in the first place.

---

Part of why I think he'll go for Rosenstein through Sessions. The only way to effectively kill this is to make sure DoJ leadership is in a position to quash it.

I literally can't believe I'm having to have this conversation in earnest right now. I used to think we were so resilient to this kind of corruption, but we're just really not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

The thing I don't understand is why on earth Republicans would want to set a precedent that allows a sitting President to effectively kill any investigation into them or anyone they want to protect.

Even if you don't think Trump did anything wrong- what about the next President who's under investigation? What if they're not?

It's just so short-sighted and dangerous. And for what, exactly? What possible short-term gain is worth jeopardizing the democracy of the US?

---

This has been my conspiracy theory for a year. They act as if they will never be out of power. They're going scorched earth on the dems, or trying to. When I think of the way Russia interfered and the results I can believe that they literally changed votes in hacked machines, where it counted and the Government thinks it's such a bombshell they deny that. What's the word on this, "They hacked the machines, but they didn't do anything. Just hacked it" It's a comforting thought to think that even though we were penetrated by an enemy that same enemy chose not to press their advantage and we have time to fix it. What if they know they don't have to worry about honest elections? That would explain their short term self destructive behavior.

I sincerely hope that's not it.

I think they've just tied themselves so heavily to Donald Trump that they're left with few choices. It's about to be full midterm season, and that means that every GOP House member and several GOP Senators are about to play "Who's more conservative/Who's the better friend to Trump?" with folks who will happily tack right on them. The only voters who matter are the ones who still cling to Donald Trump. Anger those voters, and the Republican is out of a job before the actual elections begin.

Trump is likewise up against a wall. He knows his exposure here is significant, and if he thinks that he and his family are barreling towards indictments or indictment-like reports- twisting the mechanisms of the Office to thwart the investigation will be the least risky thing he could do, in his mind.

That doesn't bode well for democracy and rule of law, unfortunately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

I sincerely hope that's not it.

I think they've just tied themselves so heavily to Donald Trump that they're left with few choices. It's about to be full midterm season, and that means that every GOP House member and several GOP Senators are about to play "Who's more conservative/Who's the better friend to Trump?" with folks who will happily tack right on them. The only voters who matter are the ones who still cling to Donald Trump. Anger those voters, and the Republican is out of a job before the actual elections begin.

Trump is likewise up against a wall. He knows his exposure here is significant, and if he thinks that he and his family are barreling towards indictments or indictment-like reports- twisting the mechanisms of the Office to thwart the investigation will be the least risky thing he could do, in his mind.

That doesn't bode well for democracy and rule of law, unfortunately.

---

This was in Newsweek today:

“Things just go from bad to worse every day,” Jacobs, a successful New York architect who designed the Holocaust memorial at Buchenwald, tells Newsweek. “There’s a real problem growing.”
So much so that Jacobs thinks there’s a “direct parallel” with Germany between the two world wars.

Perhaps more alarming than the far-right getting braver is the seep into mainstream politics of their hate, their talking points, their rhetoric. “It feels like 1929 or 1930 Berlin,” Jacobs speculated, ahead of Holocaust Remembrance Day 2018 on Thursday.

FWIW: He was born in 1938 so this isn't an eye witness. The article makes you do the math and that's misleading.

Well that's depressing.

Meanwhile, WaPo outlined the specific requirements for the FBI to have been issued a warrant for the raid:

Quote:

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In short: The Cohen search warrant almost certainly included decision-making or approval on the part of the second-highest-ranking person at the Justice Department (Rosenstein), a federal judge and the U.S. attorney or an assistant attorney general. Before it was executed, the team would have needed to check a number of boxes meant to reduce the likelihood of improperly seizing privileged material and to make the case to a judge that evidence of criminal behavior would probably be found.

---

Specifically the six things they had to do were:

Quote:

---

1) Before obtaining a search warrant, investigators had to try to obtain the evidence in another way, such as by subpoena.

2) The authorization for the warrant had to come from either the U.S. attorney or an assistant attorney general. (Rosenstein is deputy attorney general, a higher position than assistant attorney general.)

3) The prosecutor had to confer with the criminal division of the department before seeking the warrant.

4) The team conducting the search had to “employ adequate precautions” to ensure that they weren’t improperly viewing privileged communications between Cohen and his clients.

5) The search team would have included a “privilege team,” including lawyers and agents not working the case, which would work to ensure that investigators conducting the search didn’t see privileged communications.

6) The investigators had to develop a review process for the seized material.

---

Note- every decision maker in this chain was a Trump-appointee.

https://media.giphy.com/media/mryXttQFa6Gas/giphy.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

That doesn't bode well for democracy and rule of law, unfortunately.

---

Yep, the unabashed attack on attorney client privilege is definitely a threat against democracy and the rule of law. So why are you and other so called champions of the law not up in arms about the FBI taking all the records and then handing them over to allow their dissemination without any unbiased determination of what is and isn't admissible evidence and what is protected under attorney client privileged? Alan Dershowitz seems to think that is a really big deal. Trump crime or not, the lack of any confidentiality of anything surely should disturb even the most rabid of Trump haters and so called bastions of law and freedom such as yourself.

Or are you just a raving hypocrite hiding behind the law only when it serves you and dismissing any and all true miscarriages of justice when they don't suit your political agenda?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~

Yep, the unabashed attack on attorney client privilege is definitely a threat against democracy and the rule of law. So why are you and other so called champions of the law not up in arms about the FBI taking all the records and then handing them over to allow their dissemination without any unbiased determination of what is and isn't admissible evidence and what is protected under attorney client privileged? Alan Dershowitz seems to think that is a really big deal. Trump crime or not, the lack of any confidentiality of anything surely should disturb even the most rabid of Trump haters and so called bastions of law and freedom such as yourself.

Or are you just a raving hypocrite hiding behind the law only when it serves you and dismissing any and all true miscarriages of justice when they don't suit your political agenda?

---

ROFL

You might want to actually go read that article instead of demonstrating- yet again- that you rarely understand more than half of an issue. Then you can go take a High School Government class and learn all about subpoenas.

Eventually you can graduate to reading Clark v United States

And when you grow up, you'll understand.

This more or less got buried in the Cohen news cycle, but it may help explain the raid today. The New York Times is reporting:

Quote:

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The special counsel is investigating a payment made to President Trump’s foundation by a Ukrainian steel magnate for a talk during the campaign, according to three people briefed on the matter, as part of a broader examination of streams of foreign money to Mr. Trump and his associates in the years leading up to the election.

Investigators subpoenaed the Trump Organization this year for an array of records about business with foreign nationals. In response, the company handed over documents about a $150,000 donation that the Ukrainian billionaire, Victor Pinchuk, made in September 2015 to the Donald J. Trump Foundation in exchange for a 20-minute appearance by Mr. Trump that month through a video link to a conference in Kiev.

Michael D. Cohen, the president’s personal lawyer whose office and hotel room were raided on Monday in an apparently unrelated case, solicited the donation. The contribution from Mr. Pinchuk, who has sought closer ties for Ukraine to the West, was the largest the foundation received in 2015 from anyone besides Mr. Trump himself.

---

Somewhere out there Hillary Clinton is laughing hystarically, and she doesn't know why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~

Yep, the unabashed attack on attorney client privilege is definitely a threat against democracy and the rule of law. So why are you and other so called champions of the law not up in arms about the FBI taking all the records and then handing them over to allow their dissemination without any unbiased determination of what is and isn't admissible evidence and what is protected under attorney client privileged? Alan Dershowitz seems to think that is a really big deal. Trump crime or not, the lack of any confidentiality of anything surely should disturb even the most rabid of Trump haters and so called bastions of law and freedom such as yourself.

Or are you just a raving hypocrite hiding behind the law only when it serves you and dismissing any and all true miscarriages of justice when they don't suit your political agenda?

---

:lol2:

Cohen is going to prison.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Cohen is going to prison.

---

I don't think he is. He'll sing like a canary to Mueller in exchange for his freedom, or he'll possibly be Pardoned by Trump.

He will definitely be disbarred though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~

Yep, the unabashed attack on attorney client privilege is definitely a threat against democracy and the rule of law. So why are you and other so called champions of the law not up in arms about the FBI taking all the records and then handing them over to allow their dissemination without any unbiased determination of what is and isn't admissible evidence and what is protected under attorney client privileged? Alan Dershowitz seems to think that is a really big deal. Trump crime or not, the lack of any confidentiality of anything surely should disturb even the most rabid of Trump haters and so called bastions of law and freedom such as yourself.

Or are you just a raving hypocrite hiding behind the law only when it serves you and dismissing any and all true miscarriages of justice when they don't suit your political agenda?

---

Is this a joke? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or serious

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

I don't think he is. He'll sing like a canary to Mueller in exchange for his freedom, or he'll possibly be Pardoned by Trump.

He will definitely be disbarred though.

---

Go to the 2:00 minute mark and start there to learn about purse puppies like Michael Cohen

https://youtu.be/NU6qAAaseso?t=120

Rocktar is roleplaying as Alex Jones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelston

Look at all this time and effort she puts into formatting her PC posts.

---

Everyone but cwolff and pk when they see them:

http://www.netanimations.net/blue-gi...s-on-mouse.gif

Can't wait to see what sort of disappointment this lawyer raid brings them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrathbringer

The "class", huh? You're retarded.

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Being a condescending cunt that's convinced she's superior to everyone else is the only way she can sleep at night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

Rocktar is roleplaying as Alex Jones.

---

https://youtu.be/BiikvUyCVo8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

It makes me very nervous.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

Well that's depressing.

---

Your poor little emotions. :lol:

Kellyanne Conway's husband, responding to Trump on Twitter.. :lol:

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/statu...72662517075968

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

Somewhere out there Hillary Clinton is laughing hystarically, and she doesn't know why.

---

does it look like this?

https://media.giphy.com/media/isP4TLqhjm3zq/giphy.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neveragain

does it look like this?

https://media.giphy.com/media/isP4TLqhjm3zq/giphy.gif

---

https://i.imgflip.com/23plvx.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Methais

https://i.imgflip.com/23plvx.jpg

---

https://media.tenor.com/images/9460f...0262/tenor.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

What you said was factually incorrect. I've included specifically why it was appointed. Don't be upset because you are a fool.

That's not slinging shit, that is stating a fact, based upon years of your political posts.

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

Your inability to read Mueller's appointment reflects only on you, not PK. Try again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

ROFL

You might want to actually go read that article instead of demonstrating- yet again- that you rarely understand more than half of an issue. Then you can go take a High School Government class and learn all about subpoenas.

Eventually you can graduate to reading Clark v United States

And when you grow up, you'll understand.

---

Just going off the concerns voiced by Alan Dershowitz in this segment I got on youtube. Now I am not a lawyer and Alan is, a pretty respected one and likely he knows a metric and standard ton more than you ever will about the law. He seems pretty damn concerned about this kind of thing so I think I will take his word on it over yours.

https://youtu.be/TPGROJIKLv4

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMLNDCiLbgM

---

I can't believe it took you this long to realize it, but better late than never.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~

Just going off the concerns voiced by Alan Dershowitz in this segment I got on youtube. Now I am not a lawyer and Alan is, a pretty respected one and likely he knows a metric and standard ton more than you ever will about the law. He seems pretty damn concerned about this kind of thing so I think I will take his word on it over yours.

https://youtu.be/TPGROJIKLv4

---

What happened to all your claims that you don't watch Fox News?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

What happened to all your claims that you don't watch Fox News?

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6UTDg87-dA

I don't watch the Home Shopping Network.

Let's see if time4pk can figure this one out all by himself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

What happened to all your claims that you don't watch Fox News?

---

Youtube dimwit. I use a news aggregator for headline news from around the world, It's over 40 major sources from print, online and TV news. This popped up on my youtube because it is relevant to current events. I don't own a TV, don't watch ANY news program and don't cruise just one website. If you took the time to use your brain for something other than absorbing THC or concussive blows then you would know that I have cited many different sources from across the media landscape including varied newspaper, TV and online sources. So please continue your dopamine addled ranting about nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~

Youtube dimwit. I use a news aggregator for headline news from around the world, It's over 40 major sources from print, online and TV news. This popped up on my youtube because it is relevant to current events. I don't own a TV, don't watch ANY news program and don't cruise just one website. If you took the time to use your brain for something other than absorbing THC or concussive blows then you would know that I have cited many different sources from across the media landscape including varied newspaper, TV and online sources. So please continue your dopamine addled ranting about nothing.

---

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Rocktar just opened the distance at 10 horts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardCranium

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Rocktar just opened the distance at 10 horts.

---

He sounds a little heated. Might need to chain him to a block of ice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taernath

He sounds a little heated.

---

Doesn't he always?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

Doesn't he always?

---

Only when he ERPs Gorean slavemaster Lunn Windrider.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthrea...84#post1123384

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~

Just going off the concerns voiced by Alan Dershowitz in this segment I got on youtube. Now I am not a lawyer and Alan is, a pretty respected one and likely he knows a metric and standard ton more than you ever will about the law. He seems pretty damn concerned about this kind of thing so I think I will take his word on it over yours.

https://youtu.be/TPGROJIKLv4

---

I've seen this form of argument before. What is this: appeal to higher authority? Is that the fallacy? Its the same one as the climate change argument. "I'm not a scientist"
You also run into this a when you accuse someone of watching fox. They inevitably reply, "I get news from an aggregator" which usually means Drudge. Never heard youtube before. LOL

Dershowitz is an outlier. He's been on the trump train for a year. I wonder why trump doesn't just hire him? Yesterday Dershowitz even said something like, "I don't advise the President in an official capacity. I give advice here Whether he watches or not, I don't know." That seemed weird to me. Its like he's interviewing for the job he wants

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cwolff

I've seen this form of argument before. What is this: appeal to higher authority? Is that the fallacy? Its the same one as the climate change argument. "I'm not a scientist"
You also run into this a when you accuse someone of watching fox. They inevitably reply, "I get news from an aggregator" which usually means Drudge. Never heard youtube before. LOL

Dershowitz is an outlier. He's been on the trump train for a year. I wonder why trump doesn't just hire him? Yesterday Dershowitz even said something like, "I don't advise the President in an official capacity. I give advice here Whether he watches or not, I don't know." That seemed weird to me. Its like he's interviewing for the job he wants

---

You're retarded.

Dear "conservatives",

Have you considered this? If so, what is your response?

Quote:

---

Joe Scarborough pointed out that Monday's raid was orchestrated by U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman: "This was a Trump man, a Trump contributor, and a Giuliani man who executed this search warrant. This is his doing, it was not Robert Mueller's doing, and there's nothing Donald Trump can say and there's no lies that he can try to spread that will change that."

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~

Just going off the concerns voiced by Alan Dershowitz in this segment I got on youtube. Now I am not a lawyer and Alan is, a pretty respected one and likely he knows a metric and standard ton more than you ever will about the law. He seems pretty damn concerned about this kind of thing so I think I will take his word on it over yours.

https://youtu.be/TPGROJIKLv4

---

Yes- I saw the Hannity segment.

First, Dershowitz wasn't actually making a legal critique- he was making a social critique as a professional in the legal industry. He made one declaration about the attorney-client privilege element, and in it he actually acknowledged that the Public Corruption unit who executed the warrant had probable cause to search the premises.

After that- there was no discussion of case law or any insinuation that this was improperly conducted by existing DoJ or legal guidelines. Your assertion that this was an attack on attorney-client privilege had no actual backing. Literally your only evidence in this instance is that Dershowitz gave a one sentence opinion that this was a bad day for attorney-client privilege.

For the record, I actually agree with the 6th Circuit (and presumably Dershowitz, though I've never read anything by him expounding on this issue) on the issue of taint teams and would even take it one step further. I think a magistrate judge should always be appointed as a part of this process because the taint team system is too vulnerable to abuse. If the SDNY Attorney is smart- they'll actually appoint one in this situation. BUT the Courts have routinely held (ala Clark) that attorney-client privilege is not a shield to protect criminal conduct. To argue that it's always wrong to search an attorney's files is to grant unalterable criminal immunity to corrupt attorneys and clients. That would be a system that is even more prone to abuse than taint teams.

For the record, these kinds of raids are extremely rare- in part- because it's almost impossible to get a Federal judge to sign off on these warrants. But in this particular situation, the Federal judge would have had to have been presented with an extraordinary amount of evidence that Cohen likely committed a crime, that legitimate evidence of that crime would be found in his office; home; and hotel room, and that there was good reason to believe that any advance notice would have resulted in a high risk of evidence being destroyed.

Among other things, that means that the DoJ likely found evidence that Cohen had already been destroying or withholding critical evidence in ongoing investigations. It also means Cohen was already either a subject or a target of an ongoing investigation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cwolff

He's been on the trump train for a year.

---

In fairness to Dershowitz, I don't think his arguments have anything to do with Trump. He has a legal theory on Executive power that he believes in firmly (but it's legitimately only a theory as it has no real case law to back it up), and he's willing to fight for that no matter what the consequences.

One thing that routinely bothers me about Dershowitz's recent arguments is the way he improperly invokes an allegory to Legislative and Judicial immunity. It's true that you can't imprison a Senator for passing a law, and you can't imprison a Judge for ruling on a law. But you can imprison a Senator for accepting a bribe to pass a law. Likewise, you can't imprison a judge for handing out a guilty verdict- even one handed out improperly. But you can imprison a Judge on racketeering charges for accepting bribes to render guilty verdicts against kids.

In the same vein- the act of firing an FBI Director is not illegal when done by a sitting US President. But any action taken with intent to obstruct justice is still illegal. (Though I'm obviously glossing over the huge amount of discussion/debate over criminal indictment of a sitting US President)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by time4fun

Yes- I saw the Hannity segment.

First, Dershowitz wasn't actually making a legal critique- he was making a social critique as a professional in the legal industry. He made one declaration about the attorney-client privilege element, and in it he actually acknowledged that the Public Corruption unit who executed the warrant had probable cause to search the premises.

After that- there was no discussion of case law or any insinuation that this was improperly conducted by existing DoJ or legal guidelines. Your assertion that this was an attack on attorney-client privilege had no actual backing. Literally your only evidence in this instance is that Dershowitz gave a one sentence opinion that this was a bad day for attorney-client privilege.

For the record, I actually agree with the 6th Circuit (and presumably Dershowitz, though I've never read anything by him expounding on this issue) on the issue of taint teams and would even take it one step further. I think a magistrate judge should always be appointed as a part of this process because the taint team system is too vulnerable to abuse. If the SDNY Attorney is smart- they'll actually appoint one in this situation. BUT the Courts have routinely held (ala Clark) that attorney-client privilege is not a shield to protect criminal conduct. To argue that it's always wrong to search an attorney's files is to grant unalterable criminal immunity to corrupt attorneys and clients. That would be a system that is even more prone to abuse than taint teams.

For the record, these kinds of raids are extremely rare- in part- because it's almost impossible to get a Federal judge to sign off on these warrants. But in this particular situation, the Federal judge would have had to have been presented with an extraordinary amount of evidence that Cohen likely committed a crime, that legitimate evidence of that crime would be found in his office; home; and hotel room, and that there was good reason to believe that any advance notice would have resulted in a high risk of evidence being destroyed.

Among other things, that means that the DoJ likely found evidence that Cohen had already been destroying or withholding critical evidence in ongoing investigations. It also means Cohen was already either a subject or a target of an ongoing investigation.

---

http://www.netanimations.net/blue-gi...s-on-mouse.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cwolff

Dear "conservatives",

Have you considered this? If so, what is your response?

---

My hope is that Mueller has some pretty damning information to get that search warrant and he should release the information soon.

I hope this isn't just another FISA court type of auto-accept and auto-approve warrants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

My hope is that Mueller has some pretty damning information to get that search warrant and he should release the information soon.

I hope this isn't just another FISA court type of auto-accept and auto-approve warrants.

---

100+ posts in this thread and you finally post something reasonable. Kudos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

100+ posts in this thread and you finally post something reasonable. Kudos.

---

Close to 500 posts in this thread and you've yet to post anything intelligent.

If history is a judge, only 1,328 more dumb posts from you until we get a glimmer of actual thought.

I, for one, can't wait to read it.

Well that didn't last long. Seriously, do you have anything in your bag of tricks besides ad hominem attacks? You and Rocktar should form a support group for all your political angst.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Androidpk

100+ posts in this thread and you finally post something reasonable. Kudos.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Close to 500 posts in this thread and you've yet to post anything intelligent.

If history is a judge, only 1,328 more dumb posts from you until we get a glimmer of actual thought.

I, for one, can't wait to read it.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Well that didn't last long. Seriously, do you have anything in your bag of tricks besides ad hominem attacks? You and Rocktar should form a support group for all your political angst.

---

https://i.imgur.com/PEkBoao.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

My hope is that Mueller has some pretty damning information to get that search warrant and he should release the information soon.

I hope this isn't just another FISA court type of auto-accept and auto-approve warrants.

---

How inconvenient for you that every single FISA judge was appointed by a conservative Republican-appointee, and your horseshit, totally evidence-free notion that "the FISA court auto-accepts and approves warrants" is based solely on your wishful thinking and no evidence whatsoever. You are the perfect example of a low-information voter. You don't know anything, and parrot whatever Drudge, Alex Jones or Rush Limbaugh tells you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androidpk

Well that didn't last long. Seriously, do you have anything in your bag of tricks besides ad hominem attacks? You and Rocktar should form a support group for all your political angst.

---

You and Warriorbird should get your own support victim group going. He was great at playing the "I'm the real victim here" card.. and glad to see you were able to step into his enormous void.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ashliana

How inconvenient for you that every single FISA judge was appointed by a conservative, and your horseshit, totally evidence-free notion that "the FISA court auto-accepts and approves warrants" is based solely on your wishful thinking and no evidence whatsoever. You are the perfect example of a low-information voter. You don't know anything, and parrot whatever Drudge, Alex Jones or Rush Limbaugh tells you.

---

Irony at it's finest.

You still mad at my avatar.. where you "claimed" you just forgot to change your login name.. that your real intention was to post something else and you "accidentally" posted in agreement with your other login?

Please tell me you realize you are as full of shit as the rest of us already know. There isn't a legitimate story you can come up with that explains that quoted post.. except for your pathetic need to have someone agree with you.. even if it's just yourself.

Pathetic as usual, It.

3rd post in a row so I can enjoy the stupidity that is It.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Irony at it's finest.

You still mad at my avatar.. where you "claimed" you just forgot to change your login name.. that your real intention was to post something else and you "accidentally" posted in agreement with your other login?

Please tell me you realize you are as full of shit as the rest of us already know. There isn't a legitimate story you can come up with that explains that quoted post.. except for your pathetic need to have someone agree with you.. even if it's just yourself.

Pathetic as usual, It.

---

:rofl: Your inability to read only reflects on you, PB. Repeating yourself doesn't make you any less stupid.

Kudos, though, on being utterly incapable of addressing how you just embarrassed yourself RE: FISA judges with your total lack of knowledge on the subject, and any ability to critically reason whatsoever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashliana

:rofl: Your inability to read only reflects on you, PB. Repeating yourself doesn't make you any less stupid.

Kudos, though, on being utterly incapable of addressing how you just embarrassed yourself RE: FISA judges with your total lack of knowledge on the subject, and any ability to critically reason whatsoever.

---

You're retarded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wrathbringer

You're retarded.

---

https://i.imgur.com/YtkY319.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashliana

:rofl: Your inability to read only reflects on you, PB. Repeating yourself doesn't make you any less stupid.

Kudos, though, on being utterly incapable of addressing how you just embarrassed yourself RE: FISA judges with your total lack of knowledge on the subject, and any ability to critically reason whatsoever.

---

I didn't embarrass myself.

At all.

It's simply above your level of understanding.

Stick to things you are good at:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

I didn't embarrass myself.

At all.

It's simply above your level of understanding.

Stick to things you are good at:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

---

Still based on your inability to comprehend basic English. Especially delicious considering you threw "catfishing" in there -- yet another new-fangled Millenial thing you don't understand as an octogenarian. Classic. Again, doubling, quadrupling, octupling down on embarrassing yourself doesn't magically erase it.

Learn to read, my hilariously deluded friend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashliana

Still based on your inability to comprehend basic English. Especially delicious considering you threw "catfishing" in there -- yet another new-fangled Millenial thing you don't understand as an octogenarian. Classic. Again, doubling, quadrupling, octupling down on embarrassing yourself doesn't magically erase it.

Learn to read, my hilariously deluded friend.

---

I'm not your friend, cockgobbler.

Sorry. I know you don't have any and you were really, really wishing I was.

But I'm not.

Also stop:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

I'm not your friend, cockgobbler.

Sorry. I know you don't have any and you were really, really wishing I was.

But I'm not.

Also stop:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

---

Aww. Look! Not only is Parkbandit too retarded to know what colloquial speech is, he doesn't know how to click links! What an adorable little old man, trying his best to use teh intarwebs! Best of luck eventually googling what "catfishing" is, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashliana

Aww. Look! Not only is Parkbandit too retarded to know what colloquial speech is, he doesn't know how to click links! What an adorable little old man, trying his best to use teh intarwebs! Best of luck eventually googling what "catfishing" is, though.

---

Dear faggot:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SS350_.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SS350_.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

---

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3a/3a725...f0b2045638.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

My hope is that Mueller has some pretty damning information to get that search warrant and he should release the information soon.

I hope this isn't just another FISA court type of auto-accept and auto-approve warrants.

---

This was a totally reasonable and substantive post. I agree- the evidence needs to have been incontrovertible.

Clarification though remember that Mueller's team made a criminal referral- they played no part in the warrant request process. (Rosenstein did though, apparently)

But your point about having a lot of evidence is a totally reasonable thing to expect. In this instance, the sheer number of DoJ officials (SDNY State Attorney, Wrey, Rosenstein, etc) who had to sign off on this plus the fact that a Federal Judge had to sign off on it tells us that there was a lot of damning evidence.

Under the circumstances, none of these people would have taken such an extreme approach without a really good reason- they understand the political implications of what just happened. A lot of people risked decades-long careers yesterday.

Re: FISA- I think FISA Courts are a terrible idea. BUT Carter Page had been under strong suspicion of being a Russian asset for years. Remember he was recruited by Russian spies, notified of that fact by the FBI, and then shortly afterwards was meeting with Russian government officials and giving anti-US/pro-Russian speeches. If there were ever a justification for a FISA Court, Carter Page would be it.

But he was also a part of an active US Presidential campaign- so the standard for a FISA warrant (which IS a high standard) would have been much higher than would typically be true of someone heavily suspected of being a Russian spy. FISA warrants also have to be renewed every 90 days- and you have to provide evidence from the previous 90 days of wiretapping to demonstrate probable cause for a renewal. You can't just keep submitting the same original evidence over and over again. Page's FISA warrant was renewed at least twice- which means there was good reason to wiretap him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashliana

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3a/3a725...f0b2045638.jpg

---

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SS350_.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SS350_.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

---

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3a/3a725...f0b2045638.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SS350_.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SS350_.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/247f...itemid=4488533

---

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3a/3a725...f0b2045638.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashliana

How inconvenient for you that every single FISA judge was appointed by a conservative Republican-appointee, and your horseshit, totally evidence-free notion that "the FISA court auto-accepts and approves warrants" is based solely on your wishful thinking and no evidence whatsoever. You are the perfect example of a low-information voter. You don't know anything, and parrot whatever Drudge, Alex Jones or Rush Limbaugh tells you.

---

In fairness to PB though- that doesn't mean those Judges take a particularly hard-line view on 4th Amendment rights. (Conservative Judges tend to give deference to the Executive Branch in these disputes)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time4fun

In fairness to PB though- that doesn't mean those Judges take a particularly hard-line view on 4th Amendment rights. (Conservative Judges tend to give deference to the Executive Branch in these disputes)

---

Putting aside whether or not that's true, it shoots the "IT WAS A POLITICALLY-MOTIVATED WITCHHUNT" premise in the foot. Every single FISA judge in history was appointed by either arch-conservative William Rehnquist or current conservative John Roberts.