New witness saw Trayvon attack Zimmerman

[diethx]

The Petsmarts in my area keep cats for adoption. It's pretty depressing. :(

[Tisket]

The Petsmarts in my area keep cats for adoption. It's pretty depressing. :(

They pull cats who are scheduled to be euthanized from shelters and hold them for adoption. They don't get the cats from private breeders.

[diethx]

That's good, but it's a shame that they don't have an area set up for the cats to move around and get some exercise. They're kept in little cages all the time.

[Tisket]

As I understand it, they give up retail space but don't charge more than a person would pay a shelter to adopt the animal. Hard to get angry at them for not making it a cat Hilton.

[Tgo01]

If anyone is to blame it's cat owners who refuse to get their cats fixed then they think it's "cute" when their female cat has litter after litter after litter that they end up giving away to other people who start the exact same cycle over again. Animal shelters are overrun with animals like this from pet owners such as the ones I described, then people get pissed that some shelters are forced to euthanize the animals in their care.

[diethx]

As I understand it, they give up retail space but don't charge more than a person would pay a shelter to adopt the animal. Hard to get angry at them for not making it a cat Hilton.

I didn't say I was angry, however I do think those funds would be better spent donating to/funding no-kill shelters who keep the cats housed in an open area where they can play, socialize, and stay healthy, rather than cooped up in cages all day. The more funding these places get, the more animals they can accept.

[Ryvicke]

Oh man I tried to adopt a cat from the huge Petsmart in Union Square a few months ago and the old lady there totally went crazy on me. I tried to explain to her that although I might appear to be a 30 year old man I was actually just a crazy cat lady and to imagine me with all manner of beaded jewelry in subtle shades of violet, but she was all 'WHAT IF YOUR OTHER CAT HATES THIS CAT?' and I was like 'DON'T TALK ABOUT NOONA LIKE THAT.' And then she was all talking about how we had to schedule a time so that she could come to my apartment and make sure I had screens on my windows and holy shit, come on do you think I just let bugs in you crazy yiddish grandma? I'm super trustworthy, look at the 700 pictures of my cat on my phone. GIVE ME THIS OTHER CAT NOW.

She didn't even give a shit about the entire facebook album I uploaded called "kitty kaleidoscope"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/kittykaleid.jpg

So I still just have one cat.

[diethx]

That pic is awesome.

[Tgo01]

Oh man I tried to adopt a cat from the huge Petsmart in Union Square a few months ago and the old lady there totally went crazy on me. I tried to explain to her that although I might appear to be a 30 year old man I was actually just a crazy cat lady and to imagine me with all manner of beaded jewelry in subtle shades of violet, but she was all 'WHAT IF YOUR OTHER CAT HATES THIS CAT?' and I was like 'DON'T TALK ABOUT NOONA LIKE THAT.' And then she was all talking about how we had to schedule a time so that she could come to my apartment and make sure I had screens on my windows and holy shit, come on do you think I just let bugs in you crazy yiddish grandma? I'm super trustworthy, look at the 700 pictures of my cat on my phone. GIVE ME THIS OTHER CAT NOW.

A woman gave me a hard time when I tried to adopt a cat from an animal shelter too. She asked "How do you feel about declawing a cat?" I said "I don't believe in declawing cats." "Oh yeah?" she retorted "What if you come home and find that the cat has clawed up all of your furniture, what would you do then?"

Holy shit lady, fine I admit it! I would beat the ever living shit out of the cat, rip her claws out myself and throw her outside. Then she went on to ask if I knew how to feed a cat (really?) and if I would play with her on a regular basis and if I had a plan for what I would do if I had to leave town for two weeks.

Maybe it's just common practice for these places to treat you as if you're some sort of animal abuser or something? I don't know.

[AnticorRifling]

It's the only way they can feel better about themselves.

[Tisket]

If I adopt from a shelter again I will just lie. "Yes I have a nine foot fence around a football sized backyard. Yes I will feed them the most expensive brand of food money can buy. Yes, I am home 24/7 and will play with them constantly." etc.

I understand them wanting to ensure a good home but they do go overboard sometimes with the questioning. It starts to seem like a personal attack on the person attempting to be responsible and save an animal from sure death.

[Latrinsorm]

It blows my mind when I'm in places in the country that don't have screens on their windows. This is the right thread for that, right?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Maybe it's just common practice for these places to treat you as if you're some sort of animal abuser or something? I don't know.

I volunteer with the Humane Society every weekend, and the simple fact is, people are stupid. You may not be retarded, but 1 out of 4 people are and need to be told the things they should and should not do to their animals. What's 10 minutes of an interview to you, if it prevents an animal from suffering at some point in the future?

[Ryvicke]

I agree to be a little careful for sure--and I wanted to go through with all the old lady's demands to show her how awesome I truly was but then she actually never called me the next day to look at my window screens and I said fuck it.

The two previous times I had adopted in New York (once for my cat and once for a friend) were from shelters in Harlem and in Brooklyn and the people were generally like "you got 100 bucks? oh you want an old cat? oh look he's in your arms already walk out the door now thanks." So the whole deal was a little surprising at Petsmart, cause I was getting an old cat (kittens are for sluts) and I thought I would just get to get in, get out and do some shnugging.

[Tenlaar]

My mother offered to take in a puppy that some humane organization had gotten from a guy selling them for gator bait. They would not let her do it until after they had done a home interview.

I guess I will never be adopting an animal, these random people can fuck off if they think they're going to come and "inspect" my home. They are taking it way too far. Especially at a PetSmart, where I can walk 30 feet away and purchase some other living creature that is there for the sole purpose of feeding a slightly larger living creature.

[Tgo01]

I volunteer with the Humane Society every weekend, and the simple fact is, people are stupid. You may not be retarded, but 1 out of 4 people are and need to be told the things they should and should not do to their animals. What's 10 minutes of an interview to you, if it prevents an animal from suffering at some point in the future?

I didn't mind her questions, it was her accusatory attitude that I was so irresponsible I wouldn't know how to take care of a cat. Seriously what business is it of hers even if I DID want to declaw the cat? It's not an illegal procedure (well not last I heard anyway) so what's it to her? Also I appreciate them trying to weed out the morons but really, do I know how to feed a cat? It's not like it was a 2 week old kitten, it was a grown adult cat, I think I can manage.

I was almost tempted to just say fuck it and walk away. Surely they can find a happy medium between making sure people are responsible and treating people like morons/animal abusers. 4 million animals are put to death each year in the US and these people with their aggressive screening procedures surely can't be helping that number.

[diethx]

Tgo, it's her business because declawing is an incredibly painful procedure, and the pain doesn't just go away. Plus if the cat ever gets out, it won't be able to defend itself very well against other animals. It's not illegal, but it's tantamount to cruelty in many people's eyes, mine included, and I can't imagine anyone willingly adopting out a cat to someone who would plan on mutilating it. I know these are strong words, but that's basically what it is.

So, that's why it's her business.

Also that's crazy that you guys are getting grilled like that. I've had to fill out forms to adopt my cats and I always had to sign an agreement saying that I would not declaw them, but that's about it. I wasn't questioned too much and no one ever tried to follow up with me.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah I agree there are a bunch of super aggressive seemingly bull dikes running the HS and scaring off would be truly good families. Sometimes people get overzealous (imagine that).

[Atlanteax]

My mother offered to take in a puppy that some humane organization had gotten from a guy selling them for gator bait. They would not let her do it until after they had done a home interview.

I guess I will never be adopting an animal, these random people can fuck off if they think they're going to come and "inspect" my home. They are taking it way too far. Especially at a PetSmart, where I can walk 30 feet away and purchase some other living creature that is there for the sole purpose of feeding a slightly larger living creature.

Most, if not all, reputable rescue organizations, also have to ensure that they are in compliance with the law.

Such as ensuring that any dog/cat is properly neutered prior to adoption ... and are to some extent still responsible for your newly adopted pet (there's generally language requiring you to have their permission prior to transferring pet ownership to another new owner) since they are looking to both protect newly adopted pets and their ability to continue as a rescue organization.

So it is pretty impressive what these volunteers go thru to ensure rescued animals have their happy 'forever' homes.

[diethx]

http://critteristic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/cutest-puppy-ever.jpg

[Ryvicke]

I'd like to adopt a bull dyke.

[diethx]

I'd like to adopt a bull dyke.

:yeahthat:

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2010/7/7/74%20Chilly%20Dog.jpg

[Tenlaar]

I know their reasons for their actions. I do not agree with them.

It will be pretty hard to convince me that it is reasonable to devote more energy to determining how well I could take care of a pet than, I don't know, say, a child.

And to tell me that I can't rescue an animal from imminent death unless I agree that I will never let it reproduce is not acceptable to me either.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I know their reasons for their actions. I do not agree with them.

It will be pretty hard to convince me that it is reasonable to devote more energy to determining how well I could take care of a pet than, I don't know, say, a child.

And to tell me that I can't rescue an animal from imminent death unless I agree that I will never let it reproduce is not acceptable to me either.

There are laws and agencies protecting children. Animals don't have voice to speak for themselves much less any effective means of preventing abuse. I'm ok with you not having any pets from a rescue organization if you can't take the time to get screened. As you mentioned, there are plenty out there you can get one from.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah I agree there are a bunch of super aggressive seemingly bull dikes running the HS and scaring off would be truly good families. Sometimes people get overzealous (imagine that).Wow! Sometimes I forget how old you are.
I know their reasons for their actions. I do not agree with them.

It will be pretty hard to convince me that it is reasonable to devote more energy to determining how well I could take care of a pet than, I don't know, say, a child.

And to tell me that I can't rescue an animal from imminent death unless I agree that I will never let it reproduce is not acceptable to me either.The parent-child bond is so interesting. There are pet owners who honestly believe it is at the same level; we even had a thread here once where some pet owners would rather their pets be saved from a fire than a stranger's child. What does it mean to be a parent, anyway? I would say humans are the active ingredient, but (for some reason) I am not the universal arbiter of truth.

[Showal]

There are laws and agencies protecting children. Animals don't have voice to speak for themselves much less any effective means of preventing abuse. I'm ok with you not having any pets from a rescue organization if you can't take the time to get screened. As you mentioned, there are plenty out there you can get one from.

I'm fine with people who don't want to get their pets spayed or neutered not adopting. Or people who are offended they need to produce legitimate proof of home ownership or the such to prove they can maintain their pet ownership. If say 1 in 10 pets who are adopted remain intact and get pregnant, their offspring is enough to repopulate the spots in shelters that were adopted. Even if they don't end up in shelters, they get adopted on craigslist which prevents pets in shelters from being adopted. Worse case scenarios, they end up as strays causing more of a problem or they end up in burlap sacks and tossed into rivers. There is virtually no legitimate reason the common pet owner should breed their pet. I understand the thought that your pet is special and you want their genes to pass on, but really, do you know how many good pets there are out there? If you want to breed a pet or if the "hassle" an adoption agency gives you is too much and deters you from adopting, then good. You're clearly not ready for pet ownership. A few questions and an interview are going to turn you away from a lifetime with your pet? Seriously? And you think you're ready? Wait until the real hassle of vet bills and credit card applications and finding sitters so you can go away. This process is intended to keep away people who decide to get a pet on a whim or are hesitant and dont know what sort of responsibility it entails. Why? So pets don't end up in shelters. It's an awful depressing problem.

[Tenlaar]

There are laws and agencies protecting children. Animals don't have voice to speak for themselves much less any effective means of preventing abuse. I'm ok with you not having any pets from a rescue organization if you can't take the time to get screened. As you mentioned, there are plenty out there you can get one from.

Who is it that determines if a person would be a fit parent before a child is born? That is a new one to me. I've known plenty of people who should never have been allowed to breed and nobody bothered to look in on them.

I have had animals all of my life. I have worked in grooming salons and veterinary offices. Nine times out of ten I would prefer the company of an animal to a person. You are really fine with an animal being put to sleep rather than coming to live with me because I don't want a complete stranger coming into my home?

[Tenlaar]

This process is intended to keep away people who decide to get a pet on a whim or are hesitant and dont know what sort of responsibility it entails.

It keeps away more people than that, though.

[Showal]

Who is it that determines if a person would be a fit parent before a child is born? That is a new one to me. I've known plenty of people who should never have been allowed to breed and nobody bothered to look in on them.

I have had animals all of my life. I have worked in grooming salons and veterinary offices. Nine times out of ten I would prefer the company of an animal to a person. You are really fine with an animal being put to sleep rather than coming to live with me because I don't want a complete stranger coming into my home?

Let's flip that question around. You are really fine with an animal (that youre ready to take into your life and care for) being put to sleep rather than some stranger coming to your house for a brief interview to ensure its a suitable home for said pet? And its not like its someone just saying they should come over because they're a creep, its a policy of where they work. If I had to let the people from the shelter that I got my dog from come by once a year or even more frequently to prove that I'm continuing to provide the home I said i would, i would STILL think that's a small price to pay for an animal I care an incredible amount for and am proud of the care I have provided.

Second, he said there is protection for children, not that someone dictates who can and cannot reproduce. There are much stronger laws in place protecting children and minimal laws protecting the welfare of animals.


It keeps away more people than that, though.

You 100% missed the point of what I said. You missed it so much that I don't even know where to begin. Read it again. Do you even somewhat understand the pet ownership problem in this country? Do you know how many adopted animals end up back in the shelter? Do you recognize how poorly funded shelters are and how overcrowded they are?
You really think you're ready to own a pet and can not make the sacrifice of having someone from the shelter come over and interview you?

[diethx]

I think if adopting a dog came with a condition that I let the shelter people come by 1+ times each year to make sure I'm taking care of that dog, I'd go adopt a dog from somewhere else. I don't want to see any animal euthanized unless they're gravely ill, but that's just nuts.

[Showal]

I think if adopting a dog came with a condition that I let the shelter people come by 1+ times each year to make sure I'm taking care of that dog, I'd go adopt a dog from somewhere else. I don't want to see any animal euthanized unless they're gravely ill, but that's just nuts.

And that's an over the top scenario. I don't think any adoption agency would have the balls to request that and they probably shouldn't. I said I personally wouldn't fuss much if I had to because, personally, I'm fine with it if I had to be in order to keep my pet because I am that confident in my ability to please any agency in my ability to care for my dog at any time and it would be a small price to pay to keep her.

[Tenlaar]

Let's flip that question around. You are really fine with an animal (that youre ready to take into your life and care for) being put to sleep rather than some stranger coming to your house for a brief interview to ensure its a suitable home for said pet?

Unfortunately, it will never get to the point where I am ready to adopt an animal from these organizations because of their, in my opinion, overly invasive policies. Also unfortunately, yes, that does in fact mean that animals will possibly die because of it.


Second, he said there is protection for children, not that someone dictates who can and cannot reproduce.

Yes, and we are discussing the things that somebody must go through BEFORE they adopt a pet. We are not talking about investigating reports of animal abuse.


You 100% missed the point of what I said. You missed it so much that I don't even know where to begin. Read it again. Do you even somewhat understand the pet ownership problem in this country? Do you know how many adopted animals end up back in the shelter? Do you recognize how poorly funded shelters are and how overcrowded they are?
You really think you're ready to own a pet and can not make the sacrifice of having someone from the shelter come over and interview you?

I read your preachy wall of assumptive text. You seem to think that my disagreement of their practices is somehow born out of ignorance and immaturity. That is a mistake, and I am not particularly interested in continuing a discussion with you if that is all that you have to offer.

[Showal]

Unfortunately, it will never get to the point where I am ready to adopt an animal from these organizations because of their, in my opinion, overly invasive policies. Also unfortunately, yes, that does in fact mean that animals will possibly die because of it.



Yes, and we are discussing the things that somebody must go through BEFORE they adopt a pet. We are not talking about investigating reports of animal abuse.



I read your preachy wall of assumptive text. You seem to think that my disagreement of their practices is somehow born out of ignorance and immaturity. That is a mistake, and I am not particularly interested in continuing a discussion with you if that is all that you have to offer.

Sounds good. I was responding originally just in general.

You missed the point Gan made. You missed every point I made. You don't want to adopt a pet because you want the freedom to breed them and you are scared of strangers. Any conversation with you will only be entertaining if I am making fun of you, anyways. Probably best if we stop now.

[Ryvicke]

Let me get us back on the right path to hating each other in the most productive way possible:

It's easier to get a gun in this country than a dog.

Fucked up.

[Showal]

Let me get us back on the right path to hating each other in the most productive way possible:

It's easier to get a gun in this country than a dog.

Fucked up.

Lol yea ok whatev LMAO so it was written in the daragonian scripts

( Yeah thats right ... I've turned it on you)

[Latrinsorm]

Wait... Ganalon is posting again?

[Showal]

Whoa ... i meant SHM. now how did I make that mistake?

[Latrinsorm]

Whoa ... i meant SHM. now how did I make that mistake?1. dumb libtard
2. jaw rammed through brick
3. daragon is the oldest religion

[Ryvicke]

4 sum men loveing ur dawg means opening urself up to emosions during barfights

doesnt matter-daragons never lose 1 barfight

daragons have mean dogs in there truck so not a problem.

[Ryvicke]

I did this google search and it was a ton of fun:

site:gsplayers.com "daragon" near "fight" and "bar"

I totally forgot that most of the best of daragon takes place in the $7 Gas thread. God that is like the hall of fame thread of all time not even a question.

[Showal]

I did this google search and it was a ton of fun:

site:gsplayers.com "daragon" near "fight" and "bar"

I totally forgot that most of the best of daragon takes place in the $7 Gas thread. God that is like the hall of fame thread of all time not even a question.

LMAO OK when your not posting as WB your still troling

[diethx]

1) Dude I was like WTF Gan switched his handle to Tgo01?

2) I have no idea what happened in this thread after that. So..

3) http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/155408/PIG-CAT.jpg

[Warriorbird]

From a legal stand point it is. In a self-defense claim you do not have to meet force with "like" force.

edit: I'm not saying it is right, but fair and legal are seldom the same.

Interesting and not the same everywhere as far as I can tell.

[Showal]

http://ficdn.fashionindie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/500x_beeneapig.jpg

http://kecute.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/guinea-pig.jpg

http://cdn2.mixrmedia.com/wp-uploads/girlybubble/blog/2010/05/ccc01.jpg

[Parkbandit]

Let me get us back on the right path to hating each other in the most productive way possible:

It's easier to get a gun in this country than a dog.

Fucked up.

http://www.mentalfloss.com/store/images/D/hyperbole_w.jpg

[Warriorbird]

http://thepetersonpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/funny-pictures-deathstar-hamster.jpg

[Methais]

That mother and father's child is dead. Gone. Taken away forever. No more birthday parties. No more football in the yard. No more holidays together. No prom. No college. No marriage. No grandchildren. That family has been denied what most of us take for granted.

There's always hologram Trayvon for the holidays, like Tupac.

[Methais]

On topic for both thread and subthread:
http://wizbangblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DogObamaAte.jpg

[Back]

http://gzlegalcase.com/

https://www.facebook.com/GeorgeZimmermanLegalCase

Oh, and a squirrel using the Force.

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/4/27/14/enhanced-buzz-22705-1335552449-6.jpg

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo1p0xUs1I1qafrh6.gif

[Tgo01]

Hmm. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1518562.html)


According to a medical report from George Zimmerman's family physician, the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with lacerations to the back of his head, a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes and a minor back injury the day after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin, ABC News reports.

The three-page medical report is included in court documents that the state of Florida made public Monday, which also contained 911 calls, non-emergency calls, photos, video, medical records and a number of hardcopy documents.

Weren't there a few people in this thread who said Zimmerman never went to see a doctor and made that whole bit up? Also they're saying Zimmerman might face federal hate crime charges. I think we might as well just agree the whole justice system has become a big joke if that's the case. What proof is there at all that this was racially motivated at all?

[Jarvan]

Hmm. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1518562.html)



Weren't there a few people in this thread who said Zimmerman never went to see a doctor and made that whole bit up? Also they're saying Zimmerman might face federal hate crime charges. I think we might as well just agree the whole justice system has become a big joke if that's the case. What proof is there at all that this was racially motivated at all?

Zimmerman is a White man, Martin was Black. Duh.

Also, some people think they heard coons instead of punks, or goons. Ergo, he was a white racist who most likely burns crosses on the weekends.

[Back]

Weren't there a few people in this thread who said Zimmerman never went to see a doctor and made that whole bit up?

Its easier to cast the accusation than to pull up a post to prove your point. Thats weak, dude. Really weak.

[Drunken Durfin]

Zimmerman is a White man...

and I'm a full-blooded Cherokee.

[Jarvan]

and I'm a full-blooded Cherokee.

Hey, that's what they say. And they are always right.

Remember, Latrin has been over this and over this.

Latino is not a race. He is either white-hispanic, or Non-white hispanic.

Since he is obviously not black, he must be white. Ergo, racist.

[Tgo01]

Its easier to cast the accusation than to pull up a post to prove your point. Thats weak, dude. Really weak.

Naww it cool dude, I know there was at least one person who said it. Not really going to go through 131 pages of posts just to refresh your memory.

[Atlanteax]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1518562.html?ref=black-voices&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D161188


According to a medical report from George Zimmerman's family physician, the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with lacerations to the back of his head, a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes and a minor back injury the day after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin, ABC News reports.

The three-page medical report is included in court documents that the state of Florida made public Monday, which also contained 911 calls, non-emergency calls, photos, video, medical records and a number of hardcopy documents. According to the Orlando Sentinel, the evidence also includes new video from the night of the shooting, both from the 7-Eleven store Trayvon visited before the confrontation and the clubhouse in the neighborhood where the teen was killed.

Law enforcement authorities said Zimmerman, who maintains he shot the teen in self-defense, told local police that Martin punched him in the face, climbed on top of him and slammed his head into the sidewalk. When the local police arrived at the scene, they found Zimmerman with a bloody nose, swollen lip and lacerations on the back of his head. Although paramedics gave him first aid, he said he did not need to go to the hospital and sought medical treatment the next day.

[Back]

Naww it cool dude, I know there was at least one person who said it. Not really going to go through 131 pages of posts just to refresh your memory.

Oh no. You don't get off the hook that easily. You don't get to come here and casually use your ignorance brush to attempt to paint half the people in this thread as liars then when called on it come back and say at least one when you have all the supposed evidence you need right in front of you to prove that empty claim.

That would be like me saying there were a bunch of racists posting in this thread but I am not going to bother to point out which posts those are to prove it because there are so many.

[Showal]

Oh no. You don't get off the hook that easily. You don't get to come here and casually use your ignorance brush to attempt to paint half the people in this thread as liars then when called on it come back and say at least one when you have all the supposed evidence you need right in front of you to prove that empty claim.

That would be like me saying there were a bunch of racists posting in this thread but I am not going to bother to point out which posts those are to prove it because there are so many.

Start with my post. First page. Wicked racist. Thanks Back.

[Showal]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BInidS3BYa8/Sd-fm-z6adI/AAAAAAAADLI/3wqEiaMZdoY/s400/if+any+moment+could+last+forever+let+it+be+this+on e,+two+cats+cuddling.bmp

[Androidpk]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1518562.html?ref=black-voices&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D161188

You mean the mob mentality was wrong? What about justice for the no limit nigga???

[Tgo01]

Oh no. You don't get off the hook that easily. You don't get to come here and casually use your ignorance brush to attempt to paint half the people in this thread as liars then when called on it come back and say at least one when you have all the supposed evidence you need right in front of you to prove that empty claim.

That would be like me saying there were a bunch of racists posting in this thread but I am not going to bother to point out which posts those are to prove it because there are so many.

Are you drunk?

[Parkbandit]

Are you drunk?

The post was at 7:05AM. Not even Backlash is that pathetic.... right?

Chalk it up to Backlash being Backlash.

[Parkbandit]

SANFORD, Fla. — WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.

“It goes along with Zimmerman's story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin,” Sheaffer said.

The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman's story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk.

But Sheaffer said there could be another explanation for Martin's knuckle injury.

“It could be consistent with Trayvon either trying to get away or defend himself,” Sheaffer said.

Zimmerman shot and killed the unarmed teenager almost three months ago after calling 911 to report the teenager was acting suspiciously.

Zimmerman said Martin threw the first punch and that he opened fire in self-defense after his screams for help went unanswered.

The FBI was not able to determine whether it was Zimmerman or Trayvon who could be heard crying out for help in 911 calls.

The defense is trying to decide what evidence it wants a judge to keep confidential before the media gets a chance to see it, but WFTV is being told that could happen in the next week or so.

In the meantime, there’s new information surfacing about Zimmerman.

ABC News said it has obtained Zimmerman's medical report from the day after the killing. According to ABC, the report shows Zimmerman had a broken nose and abrasions on the back of his head.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

[Atlanteax]

Oh man @ all those racist people who did not automatically consider Zimmerman guilty when this thread first started.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

This is what I think is bullshit. The guy has not even had a jury selected yet and the media labels it like this.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/bignews/classic_blog/topics/2649798/image_1332176415.jpeg

Hmmm... what up Huff Post?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/bignews/classic_blog/topics/2649798/image_1335817801.jpeg

[Atlanteax]

Heh, and now the HOODIE (cue ominous music) is featured.

[Androidpk]

http://sadhillnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/obama-if-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon-birth-certificate-sad-hill-news-35.jpg

[Atlanteax]

One more reason to not vote for Obama!

[Warriorbird]

Because more than one wrong totally makes a right.

[Parkbandit]

Because more than one wrong totally makes a right.

http://speakfresh.com/wp-content/uploads/Barney.jpg

[Back]

Are you drunk?


The post was at 7:05AM. Not even Backlash is that pathetic.... right?

Chalk it up to Backlash being Backlash.

Psh. As if the time of day made any difference what so ever.

As a participant of debate in this thread I did not appreciate Tgo01 casting accusations and being lazy about not backing them up when its all right here for him to prove his point with if it was valid. Since he has not his point is invalid and hes a jerk. So there!

[Parkbandit]

Psh. As if the time of day made any difference what so ever.

As a participant of debate in this thread I did not appreciate Tgo01 casting accusations and being lazy about not backing them up when its all right here for him to prove his point with if it was valid. Since he has not his point is invalid and hes a jerk. So there!

I see where you are coming from. You made a plethora of stupid comments in this thread and all you wanted was the slightest recognition from tgo01 and that son of a bitch didn't give you the attention satisfaction you craved. I agree with you: He IS a jerk.

[Androidpk]

Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system


(CNN) -- Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system when he was fatally shot earlier this year by George Zimmerman in Sanford, Florida, according to autopsy results released Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

So he smoked pot?

[Warriorbird]

So he smoked pot?

That dreaded combo of marijuana and Master P records clearly made him a product of the disordered Birth of a Nation imaginings of our conservative posters.

Now they must strike back with a flurry of message board posts to wipe the stain clean.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GwjKxLpACQ0/TjqiXvEKf3I/AAAAAAAADhQ/YYeIYrpjiTk/s1600/birthofanation3.jpg

[Androidpk]

So he smoked pot?

No. Zimmerman smokes pot and was giving Martin shotguns to make it look like he did. Or at least I'm sure someone will make that claim eventually.

[Back]

So Trayvon had a tiny bit of THC in his blood. Still no justification for his death.

[Androidpk]

No, but being a punk ass thug is, especially when you're slamming someones head on the curb. If I were in Zimmerman's place I would have done the same.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

That dreaded combo of marijuana and Master P records clearly made him a product of the disordered Birth of a Nation imaginings of our conservative posters.

:lol:

People do dangerous things on weed, like taking 10 minutes to get up some stairs or really wanting a nutella and gummy bear sandwich.

[Androidpk]

:lol:

People do dangerous things on weed, like taking 10 minutes to get up some stairs or really wanting a nutella and gummy bear sandwich.

Or worse, eating dairy products when you're lactose intolerant.

[Warriorbird]

No, but being a punk ass thug is, especially when you're slamming someones head on the curb. If I were in Zimmerman's place I would have done the same.

I'm also thinking that you might not have brought the gun along, disobeyed police, beat up an officer before (and had your judge father get you out of it), or had any sort of domestic violence arrests.

Then again, I assume the best.

[Androidpk]

disobeyed police

Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that 911 operator did not and does not have legal authority to command someone to do something. Zimmerman said he was following Martin and the 911 operator said he did not need to do that. If it was an actual police command he would have been told to cease following, not give him a suggestion.

[Parkbandit]

So Trayvon had a tiny bit of THC in his blood. Still no justification for his death.

No one said it was. Well, except you.

[Jarvan]

Correct me if I am wrong, is not Pot illegal yet in FL? or is it medically legal now and a 17 year old kid has glaucoma?

Granted, smoking pot has no bearing on this case. But it is another nail in the "he was a sweet innocent boy who never did anything wrong" story people are trying to claim.

Lets see.. Drugs, stolen goods, gangster twitter name.. who is to say he wasn't casing the gated community? We have now also seen photo evidence that Zimmerman had a broken nose, and blood and cuts on the back of his head. New recorded evidence from an eyewitness that he was being assaulted.

Should he have died, no. If I was Zimmerman and I was being attacked like that, I probably would have reacted the same way.

Frankly.. this case is fucked either way. If Zimmerman gets off, expect the law to be changed, or repealed. ( stand your ground )

if he gets put away for supposedly "starting" it in the first place by following him, well.. shit. That just gives murderers a whole new legal defense. "He was staring at me funny, so I defended myself" "I felt he was following me, so I acted".

[Ryvicke]

I'm falling in love with this thread all over again.

Birth of a Nation screen grabs and Jarvan being completely clueless as to which one of the two died. I'm gonna print this whole thing out on a dot matrix printer scroll and fucking frame it.

[Latrinsorm]

No, but being a punk ass thug is, especially when you're slamming someones head on the curb. If I were in Zimmerman's place I would have done the same.I don't get why people keep going on about all this stuff that happened after Martin fled from Zimmerman. Of course he got punched in the face, was anyone ever seriously disbelieving that? The point is you can't chase after someone with a gun, get punched in the face, and say self-defense when you shoot them.

[Tgo01]

Of course he got punched in the face, was anyone ever seriously disbelieving that?

Yes.

[Latrinsorm]

Link? :)

[Androidpk]

Of course he got punched in the face, was anyone ever seriously disbelieving that? The point is you can't chase after someone with a gun, get punched in the face, and say self-defense when you shoot them.

Actually quite a lot of people believe Zimmerman was never attacked, but hey, let's play jump to conclusions some more.

[Tgo01]

Link? :)

Don't make me call you Back Jr.

[Jarvan]

I'm falling in love with this thread all over again.

Birth of a Nation screen grabs and Jarvan being completely clueless as to which one of the two died. I'm gonna print this whole thing out on a dot matrix printer scroll and fucking frame it.

You want a hard copy of your idiocy? Not sure why, but go ahead.

Martin died. Duh.

Zimmerman's life is for all purposes over as well really.

I'm Sorry Ryvicke.. is your view of what happened deteriorating faster then twinkie in a fat man's hands?

[Androidpk]

Zimmerman's life is for all purposes over as well really.


1. People have the attention span of flies
2. No

[Jarvan]

I don't get why people keep going on about all this stuff that happened after Martin fled from Zimmerman. Of course he got punched in the face, was anyone ever seriously disbelieving that? The point is you can't chase after someone with a gun, get punched in the face, and say self-defense when you shoot them.

Like I said, if being chased is going to be justification for assault, we are going to have one hell of a shit storm in our courts.

So if Zimmerman hadn't killed Martin, and Martin had killed Zimmerman via brain trauma. Would it have been self defense or justified? Or since Martin started the Assault, would he have gotten murder 2?

As for chasing, we have no video. But I seriously doubt he "chased" Martin at all, more likely he tried to follow seeing where he went to tell the cops.

But it really doesn't matter to most of you assholes, the man's guilty to you, and even with full HD video and a and recorded conversation on the phone of a confession of Martin that he was going to kill him with his hands would not be enough to change that.

Let the courts decide what happened, and deal with it.

[Warriorbird]

Correct me if I am wrong, is not Pot illegal yet in FL? or is it medically legal now and a 17 year old kid has glaucoma?

Granted, smoking pot has no bearing on this case. But it is another nail in the "he was a sweet innocent boy who never did anything wrong" story people are trying to claim.

Lets see.. Drugs, stolen goods, gangster twitter name.. who is to say he wasn't casing the gated community? We have now also seen photo evidence that Zimmerman had a broken nose, and blood and cuts on the back of his head. New recorded evidence from an eyewitness that he was being assaulted.

Should he have died, no. If I was Zimmerman and I was being attacked like that, I probably would have reacted the same way.

Frankly.. this case is fucked either way. If Zimmerman gets off, expect the law to be changed, or repealed. ( stand your ground )

if he gets put away for supposedly "starting" it in the first place by following him, well.. shit. That just gives murderers a whole new legal defense. "He was staring at me funny, so I defended myself" "I felt he was following me, so I acted".

In rightwing fantasyland only one of them has ever done anything suspicious.


Zimmerman's life is for all purposes over as well really.


I'm sure he'll be talking about how he shot the black kid to crowds full of people like you for life if he walks, ala Goetz.

[diethx]

This thread needs some serious guinea pigs again.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

This thread needs more Gendry, IMO.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4748gVsiM1qae90q.gif

[Androidpk]

http://i47.tinypic.com/s5fp81.gif

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://i47.tinypic.com/s5fp81.gif

omfg, I am dying

RESPECT THE WOOD

Also:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m41vgeAG5A1qbtlcco3_250.gif

[Warriorbird]

This thread needs more Gendry, IMO.


Gendry? Pff.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2012/04/Game-Of-Thrones-Desert-1333351699.jpg

[Ryvicke]

I can't see WBs gif but it better be a fucking ygritte.

I just spent like 3 minutes and couldn't find one. I think all the GoT gif sites are run by preteen girls. Or Nikki.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Pretty sure there's gonna be some heavily gif'd scenes of Ygritte and Jon fighting off the frostbite if you know what I mean, in the next few episodes.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m46thuEdcW1qjcqh1o2_500.gif

[Androidpk]

http://i45.tinypic.com/rqvhuq.gif

[Warriorbird]

I can't see WBs gif but it better be a fucking ygritte.

I just spent like 3 minutes and couldn't find one. I think all the GoT gif sites are run by preteen girls. Or Nikki.

Say what?

http://unaffiliatedcritic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Ygritte-Rose-Leslie.jpg

Yeah that.

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/main/sites/default/files/shot/images/1205/GoTYgritteSnow.jpg

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Gendry? Pff.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2012/04/Game-Of-Thrones-Desert-1333351699.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m432yw6tHQ1rvdqkpo1_250.gif

[RSR]

http://i.imgur.com/DuFER.jpg

[Warriorbird]

http://i.imgur.com/DuFER.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m45f5qk0x81romq0yo1_500.jpg

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3qfttbBPp1r6vwdq.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llqts3wByz1qclvq3.gif

Tyrion is the man.

[Atlanteax]

I'm sure he'll be talking about how he shot the black kid to crowds full of people like you for life if he walks, ala Goetz.

Wow, biased much?

Why is there such tremendous denial that Trayvon escalated the incident? Is it simply that he is to get a free pass because he is black?

[Atlanteax]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/evidence-trayvon-martin_n_1525285.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl2|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D162053


Serino wrote in a report that he played a 911 call for Martin's father, Tracy, in which screams for help are heard multiple times. "I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded 'no.'" Zimmerman's father also listened to the recording and told investigators on March 19 that it was his son yelling for help. "That is absolutely positively George Zimmerman," Robert Zimmerman said. "He was not just yelling, he sounded like he was screaming for his life."

[Latrinsorm]

Like I said, if being chased is going to be justification for assault, we are going to have one hell of a shit storm in our courts.

So if Zimmerman hadn't killed Martin, and Martin had killed Zimmerman via brain trauma. Would it have been self defense or justified? Or since Martin started the Assault, would he have gotten murder 2?Martin would have had a reasonable expectation of safety if he had merely incapacitated Zimmerman, therefore killing him would be going too far to be self defense as far as I'm concerned. However, if he could demonstrate that during the course of the self defense he became aware that Zimmerman had a gun, all bets are off. We'll never know now.
As for chasing, we have no video. But I seriously doubt he "chased" Martin at all, more likely he tried to follow seeing where he went to tell the cops.Chasing, following, pursuing... semantics. Martin was ending the confrontation, Zimmerman freely and irresponsibly chose to escalate it.
But it really doesn't matter to most of you assholes, the man's guilty to you, and even with full HD video and a and recorded conversation on the phone of a confession of Martin that he was going to kill him with his hands would not be enough to change that.

Let the courts decide what happened, and deal with it.If you want to let 12 anonymous strangers wrestling with legal minutiae tell you what's right and wrong, I suppose that's your business. I think you would be better off using your brain, though.

[AnticorRifling]

Don't you mean "I think you'd be better of using your brain (as long as you agree with me), though"?

As for the comment on chasing, following, pursuing...semantics. Just wow.

[Androidpk]

If you want to let 12 anonymous strangers wrestling with legal minutiae tell you what's right and wrong, I suppose that's your business. I think you would be better off using your brain, though.


Yeah! Let's burn Zimmerman, he's a Witch!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

[Parkbandit]

Martin would have had a reasonable expectation of safety if he had merely incapacitated Zimmerman, therefore killing him would be going too far to be self defense as far as I'm concerned. However, if he could demonstrate that during the course of the self defense he became aware that Zimmerman had a gun, all bets are off. We'll never know now.

If he knew Zimmerman had a gun.. how dumb would he have to be to attack him.. as Zimmerman claims?

I think it's reasonable to believe that Trayvon didn't know he was being followed by someone with a gun.



Chasing, following, pursuing... semantics. Martin was ending the confrontation, Zimmerman freely and irresponsibly chose to escalate it.

To believe this would require you to believe that everything that witnesses saw and what Zimmerman has said happened is a lie. The evidence could easily show how Trayvon escalated the confrontation and was kicking George's ass.



If you want to let 12 anonymous strangers wrestling with legal minutiae tell you what's right and wrong, I suppose that's your business. I think you would be better off using your brain, though.

It's how the legal system works in this country... not someone on the Internet selectively picking and choosing the evidence he/she wants to believe and ignoring everything else.

[Atlanteax]

It's how the legal system works in this country... not someone on the Internet selectively picking and choosing the evidence he/she wants to believe and ignoring everything else.

ie Backlash-syndrome (or the Ryvicke variant)

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m47vwvKdb11qdnpzi.gif

[Jarvan]

Martin would have had a reasonable expectation of safety if he had merely incapacitated Zimmerman, therefore killing him would be going too far to be self defense as far as I'm concerned. However, if he could demonstrate that during the course of the self defense he became aware that Zimmerman had a gun, all bets are off. We'll never know now.Chasing, following, pursuing... semantics. Martin was ending the confrontation, Zimmerman freely and irresponsibly chose to escalate it.If you want to let 12 anonymous strangers wrestling with legal minutiae tell you what's right and wrong, I suppose that's your business. I think you would be better off using your brain, though.

So what you are saying is that if the Courts say he is innocent, you will still say he is guilty?

So in a sense, to you, it never matters what a court decides, as you are right, and they are wrong.

[Showal]

So what you are saying is that if the Courts say he is innocent, you will still say he is guilty?

So in a sense, to you, it never matters what a court decides, as you are right, and they are wrong.

And here some nonsense that's not following what has been discusses with a few randomly capitalized words thrown in.

[Latrinsorm]

If he knew Zimmerman had a gun.. how dumb would he have to be to attack him.. as Zimmerman claims?

I think it's reasonable to believe that Trayvon didn't know he was being followed by someone with a gun.An important phrase in that comment was "during the course of the self defense". I do not believe Martin was aware of Zimmerman's gun during the pursuit. I don't know either way if Martin became aware of Zimmerman's gun while he was punching him, which is why I said "if" and "we'll never know now".

An important phrase in this comment was "during the course of the self defense".
To believe this would require you to believe that everything that witnesses saw and what Zimmerman has said happened is a lie. The evidence could easily show how Trayvon escalated the confrontation and was kicking George's ass.I am taking Zimmerman at his word when he said he was following Martin in the 911 call. I don't know how this is still being debated. The guy said it himself, and has never claimed otherwise.
It's how the legal system works in this country... not someone on the Internet selectively picking and choosing the evidence he/she wants to believe and ignoring everything else.I am not under the impression that we are making law on the PC. I am under the impression that we are disagreeing on what is right and wrong. It is important to understand the differences between what is illegal, what people are convicted for, and what is right.
Yeah! Let's burn Zimmerman, he's a Witch!What, there weren't any black people in England in a vaguely defined time period rife with anachronisms? Racist.
Don't you mean "I think you'd be better of using your brain (as long as you agree with me), though"?That is not, in fact, what I mean. If Jarvan said that he was coming to his own conclusion that happened to disagree with mine, I would not suggest he use his own brain. That wouldn't make sense. When Jarvan said he forfeited his opinion to the legal system, and that any dissenters should just "deal with it", that's just being silly. Segregation didn't suddenly become wrong in 1954. Jim Crow laws didn't suddenly become wrong in 1964. Legal is not the same as right, and this doesn't even touch on the process of conviction.
As for the comment on chasing, following, pursuing...semantics. Just wow.Feel free to cite any piece of evidence that disagrees with: "Martin was ending the confrontation, Zimmerman freely and irresponsibly chose to escalate it." :)

[Latrinsorm]

So what you are saying is that if the Courts say he is innocent, you will still say he is guilty?

So in a sense, to you, it never matters what a court decides, as you are right, and they are wrong.If you were in the 1800s, would you have turned a fugitive slave in, recognizing that you were legally obligated to do so? Or would you have been on the side of the illegal Underground Railroad?

It would not have mattered to me what the courts decided. I would have helped free slaves. I would like to think you would be on my side there, and your attempt to paint our disagreement this way is merely a rhetorical tactic, rather than what you honestly believe.

[Androidpk]

If you were in the 1800s, would you have turned a fugitive slave in, recognizing that you were legally obligated to do so? Or would you have been on the side of the illegal Underground Railroad?



*cast facepalm level 10*

[Showal]

If you were in the 1800s, would you have turned a fugitive slave in, recognizing that you were legally obligated to do so? Or would you have been on the side of the illegal Underground Railroad?

It would not have mattered to me what the courts decided. I would have helped free slaves. I would like to think you would be on my side there, and your attempt to paint our disagreement this way is merely a rhetorical tactic, rather than what you honestly believe.

Even Gibreficul's ancestors were freeing slaves via the underground railroad.

Jarvan doesn't really make sense and doesn't appear to try. He doesn't attempt to use logic or reason, like an adult would, to consider all sides of an issue. Things are quite literally black and white to him. No gray area or subtleties.

[Latrinsorm]

*cast facepalm level 10*Hey, I said I'd like to think he was on my side! It's a reductio ad absurdum, nothing more.

[g++]

Its actually not. Reductio ad absurdum is proof by contradiction. Extrapolating someones position to include slavery is closer to straw man which is a fallacy. Slavery is not the opposite of self defense.

[diethx]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m45f5qk0x81romq0yo1_500.jpg

Whoa.

[Showal]

Its actually not. Reductio ad absurdum is proof by contradiction. Extrapolating someones position to include slavery is closer to straw man which is a fallacy. Slavery is not the opposite of self defense.

THIS is reductio ad absurdum:

I posted this -


Even though this thread has been completely derailed by off-topic crap...

My monk will be the ultimate fighter with mixed martial arts stances, but he'll also be borderline psionist in his mental abilities. Can't wait to use Telekinesis from the MnM... I've seen clips, think Ithzir seer abilities + old school Wizard Disarm. Very, very cool stuff.

I guess my monk will be more Jedi than anything.

Causing GS4_HappyTimez to post this -


How cliche. Get a freaking imagination.

Causing me to post this earlier quote from GS4_HappyTimez -


Even though this thread has been completely derailed by off-topic crap...

My monk will be the ultimate fighter with mixed martial arts stances, but he'll also be borderline psionist in his mental abilities. Can't wait to use Telekinesis from the MnM... I've seen clips, think Ithzir seer abilities + old school Wizard Disarm. Very, very cool stuff.

I guess my monk will be more Jedi than anything.

[g++]

heh...well I'm not saying I agree with Jarvan...about...well anything in this thread. Just saying I don't think that was a proper argument to prove him wrong. I don't think there is a logical right and wrong in this situation its just something terrible that happened.

[Atlanteax]

Feel free to cite any piece of evidence that disagrees with: "Martin was ending the confrontation, Zimmerman freely and irresponsibly chose to escalate it." :)

Zimmerman returned to his car to wait for the police ... when he got jumped by Martin.

Perhaps you could do the impossible and cite evidence that Martin was ending the confrontation and Zimmerman was escalating? Hopefully you will realize that you cannot conjure such a thing from thin air.

[Showal]

Zimmerman returned to his car to wait for the police ... when he got jumped by Martin.

There is as much evidence that this happened as there is supporting that these two cats truly are having this conversation:

http://www.talking-cats.com/images/submissions/mySubmissions/my-talking-cat-058.jpg

[Jarvan]

heh...well I'm not saying I agree with Jarvan...about...well anything in this thread. Just saying I don't think that was a proper argument to prove him wrong. I don't think there is a logical right and wrong in this situation its just something terrible that happened.

These people are not about what is right and wrong. Nor Legal or illegal, they are about what fits their views and what doesn't.

Do I think Zimmerman was wrong to follow Martin? No, not if he honestly thought he was up to no good. Was he legally wrong? That's still up in the air. I still haven't seen any law where following someone is a crime.

Was Zimmerman wrong to carry a gun? No, he was legally allowed to.

Was Zimmerman wrong to defend himself when assaulted by someone bigger and likely stronger then him in what he felt was necessary force? No, I do not, but the legal question is still in doubt.

As for the slave question, you are not asking a right or wrong question. You are asking a moral question. Right or wrong, and even moral question are always debatable. To the slave owning south, it would be right to turn them in, to the free slave north, it would be wrong. Morally, it is the same way really.

If you were a plantation owner in the South in the 1700's would you have owned slaves? Yes, you would have. Would you have felt that was morally ok, or right. Yes you would have. Would 90+% of the country agree with you, yes they would have.

Morality and right and wrong change over time. Hence, why we have laws.

What you personally feel is right or wrong does not mean it IS right or wrong. (fuck you I will capitalize it if I want to)

[AnticorRifling]

.... he was up to no good. What if he started making trouble in your neighborhood? If you got in one little fight would your mom get scared? Would she send you to live with your uncle and auntie in Bel Aire?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I think what Jarvan is trying to say is that Martin seemingly wasn't just sitting there when Zimmerman shot him. The problem is trying to figure out what exactly happened and , did he attack Zimmerman? Did he attack Zimmerman because Zimmerman followed him and threatened him first? Did he attack Zimmerman for being white? Was Zimmerman justified in his use of force? Not to mention the whole car issue, it changes things if he followed him to the car, went to open the door, get on the floor, everybody walk the dinosaur.

[Showal]

I think what Jarvan is trying to say is that Martin seemingly wasn't just sitting there when Zimmerman shot him. The problem is trying to figure out what exactly happened and , did he attack Zimmerman? Did he attack Zimmerman because Zimmerman followed him and threatened him first? Did he attack Zimmerman for being white? Was Zimmerman justified in his use of force? Not to mention the whole car issue, it changes things if he followed him to the car, went to open the door, get on the floor, everybody walk the dinosaur.

What if Martin was just trying to disarm Zimmerman with a smile, and cut him like they want him to?

[Latrinsorm]

Its actually not. Reductio ad absurdum is proof by contradiction. Extrapolating someones position to include slavery is closer to straw man which is a fallacy. Slavery is not the opposite of self defense.Extrapolating, humbug. It was claimed that I dismiss the ruling of the courts when it doesn't fit my opinion, and I provided an example showing that we all can and should do so at times. Jarvan's stated reasoning means supporting slavery would be right in the 1800s, and it is surely a contradiction that supporting slavery is right.

Obviously Jarvan does not support slavery, hence my comment about Jarvan stating his reasoning for rhetorical effect. His actual reasoning is "you should agree with the courts when the courts are right or correct", making this a phantom disagreement.
If you were a plantation owner in the South in the 1700's would you have owned slaves? Yes, you would have. Would you have felt that was morally ok, or right. Yes you would have. Would 90+% of the country agree with you, yes they would have.So you say, but as evidenced by our recent discussion I am happy to disagree with the courts when it suits me. Why wouldn't I have been one of the people who disagreed with slavery, and one of the people who did something about it?

[Ker_Thwap]

I'm not on a jury, so I have no real opinion on this entire thing.

But Nikki wins the thread for the Walk the Dinosaur (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYKupOsaJmk) reference.

lacka lacka boom boom

[Androidpk]

What if he started making trouble in your neighborhood? If you got in one little fight would your mom get scared? Would she send you to live with your uncle and auntie in Bel Aire?

http://i45.tinypic.com/n6b9dt.gif

[Kuyuk]

I use the carlton dance video in emails whenever I beat my budget at work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS1cLOIxsQ8

[Back]

ie Backlash-syndrome (or the Ryvicke variant)

If you actually read my posts you'll discover that you are wildly off-base with that remark and in fact resemble it more closely yourself.

Which raises the question why are you under such a disillusionment?

[Parkbandit]

If you were in the 1800s, would you have turned a fugitive slave in, recognizing that you were legally obligated to do so? Or would you have been on the side of the illegal Underground Railroad?

It would not have mattered to me what the courts decided. I would have helped free slaves. I would like to think you would be on my side there, and your attempt to paint our disagreement this way is merely a rhetorical tactic, rather than what you honestly believe.

http://rgifs.gifbin.com/062010/1275389857_naked-gun-facepalm.gif

Even OJ can't believe the leap you just made.

[Parkbandit]

If you actually read my posts you'll discover that you are wildly off-base with that remark and in fact resemble it more closely yourself.

Which raises the question why are you under such a disillusionment?

Given the mountains of evidence released.. you probably don't want people to go back and read your stupidity in this thread.

[Jarvan]

http://rgifs.gifbin.com/062010/1275389857_naked-gun-facepalm.gif

Even OJ can't believe the leap you just made.

I can PB, because Slavery in the 1800's and helping the underground railroad, are completely equal to following someone you find suspicious.

[Back]

Given the mountains of evidence released.. you probably don't want people to go back and read your stupidity in this thread.

Clearly since I suggested my posts be read.

Are you in an antithetical posting frenzy where you just blindly argue whatever point anyone tries to make?

[Androidpk]

Are you in an antithetical posting frenzy where you just blindly argue whatever point anyone tries to make?

Not that I want to give any support to Father Time but I think he just wants to bash on your ignorance and stupidity.

[Back]

Not that I want to give any support to Father Time but I think he just wants to bash on your ignorance and stupidity.

Oh, ok, thanks mascera boy.

[Parkbandit]

Clearly since I suggested my posts be read.

Are you in an antithetical posting frenzy where you just blindly argue whatever point anyone tries to make?

I guess negative attention is still attention in your mind.

Carry on.

[Atlanteax]

Clearly since I suggested my posts be read.

Have you even read your own posts?

[Back]

George Zimmerman Made Racist Remarks At Work (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1528268.html)


Within a collection of evidence (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/evidence-trayvon-martin_n_1525285.html) officially released by the State Attorney's Office on Thursday, was an audio recording of a 15-minute interview with George Zimmerman's former co-worker. During the interview, the man, whose name was not given, says that Zimmerman racially targeted him and bullied him at work, ThinkProgress.com reports (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/05/18/486523/audio-witness-says-george-zimmerman-repeatedly-bullied-him-at-work-targeted-him-with-racist-jokes/).


According to the witness, Zimmerman singled him out because he was Middle Eastern, calling him a "fucking moron" and mocking him with the voice of "Achmed the terrorist." He said Zimmerman would also tell stories and make jokes about "bombing" and other "Middle Eastern stuff."


The witness said that he never felt physically threatened by Zimmerman or had any violent interaction with him. He said that he complained to management about Zimmerman's behavior, and Zimmerman was eventually "fired for calling the HR hotline so many times."



Complaints about Zimmerman's behavior aren't new. In the past, his neighbors complained about his aggressive tactics (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html?1331601197) as a neighborhood watchmen and public records show he was arrested in Orange County in 2005 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1335984.html) on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer.



Not helping his defense against a hate crime.

[4a6c1]

"At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role."

"Public records show he was arrested in Orange County in 2005 on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer. Those charges were later dropped."


Wow. Zimmerman is sounding more and more like a paranoid that thinks the rules don't apply to him. I guess he was right!

[Showal]

OUTRAGE OUTRAGE!!!!

[4a6c1]

heee!

I dont even remember why that is funny anymore. But I'm excited your excited.

[Androidpk]

What's the difference between Lebron James in the 4th quarter and George Zimmerman?


Zimmerman doesn't miss his shots.

[Tgo01]

Some of the witnesses suddenly got a better memory and are changing their stories (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11816588-newspaper-4-witnesses-change-stories-in-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite) and not to Zimmerman's benefit.


Witness 2: A young woman from the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Martin, 17, was shot Feb. 26, first told investigators she saw two men running and a fist fight. She later said she only saw one person running and couldn’t distinguish much because she had removed her contact lenses.

Witness 12: A young mother in the townhome community first said she saw two men on the ground but wasn’t sure who was on top; she later said Zimmerman was on top because she recognized his size based on news reports.

Witness 13: A male neighbor first said Zimmerman, with a bloodied head, told him he had to shoot Martin because “he was beating up on me,” and to please call Zimmerman’s wife. He later went into detail and described Zimmerman’s tone right after the shooting as casual, like the shooting was “nothing.”

Witness 6: A male neighbor, whose story change was initially reported Friday, first told police Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing down punches mixed martial arts style. He also first said Zimmerman was calling for help. The man later said he wasn’t sure who was yelling for help, and that Martin may have merely pinned Zimmerman to the ground. He was still sure, however, that Martin was on top.

[Jarvan]

Some of the witnesses suddenly got a better memory and are changing their stories (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11816588-newspaper-4-witnesses-change-stories-in-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite) and not to Zimmerman's benefit.

Isn't it funny how people that know exactly what they saw at the time when questioned by police.. change their mind later after they are likely told what it is the Really saw by the Media?

[Showal]

RanDom capiTAl letterS Time!!!

[AnticorRifling]

Some of the witnesses suddenly got a better memory and are changing their stories (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11816588-newspaper-4-witnesses-change-stories-in-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite) and not to Zimmerman's benefit.

Wouldn't that be to his benefit because of the whole "doubt" thing?

[Tgo01]

Wouldn't that be to his benefit because of the whole "doubt" thing?

I don't think the jury is informed that witnesses have changed their stories. I wonder if the defense is allowed to bring that up?

[Parkbandit]

I don't think the jury is informed that witnesses have changed their stories. I wonder if the defense is allowed to bring that up?

Why wouldn't they be? The defense will bring them up on the stand, have them tell their story and then have the police records to show how they changed their account of events.

[Latrinsorm]

I thought the most interesting part was the link at the bottom...

"Prosecutors on Thursday made public a trove of evidence used to justify murder charges against Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman, including a police report that concluded "the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman.""

"Another police report indicated that Sanford police thought Zimmerman was at fault, even though they let him go after questioning him."

The police apparently don't care that 4 of the 13+ witnesses changed their stories and disagree with each other, should you?

[AnticorRifling]

The police apparently don't care that 4 of the 13+ witnesses changed their stories and disagree with each other, should you?

The police aren't the judge and/or jury.

[Parkbandit]

I thought the most interesting part was the link at the bottom...

"Prosecutors on Thursday made public a trove of evidence used to justify murder charges against Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman, including a police report that concluded "the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman.""

"Another police report indicated that Sanford police thought Zimmerman was at fault, even though they let him go after questioning him."

The police apparently don't care that 4 of the 13+ witnesses changed their stories and disagree with each other, should you?

Every incident is avoidable. That doesn't mean guilty of a crime though.

[Tgo01]

Why wouldn't they be? The defense will bring them up on the stand, have them tell their story and then have the police records to show how they changed their account of events.

True. I still don't think them changing their stories is going to be a benefit to Zimmerman though. Their stories originally helped Zimmerman's case and it would put the onus on the prosecution to discredit their testimony. Now at best the defense could try and say they are not credible witnesses because they changed their stories. Also technically witness 12 never changed her story, she just suddenly "recognized" Zimmerman after the fact.

[Atlanteax]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/george-zimmermans-reenact_n_1614983.html?ncid=webmail1


A newly released video shows Florida neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman at the scene of Trayvon Martin's fatal shooting a day later giving police a blow-by-blow account of his fight with the teen.

In a video posted on a website by Zimmerman's defense team, Zimmerman said Martin saw his gun and reached for it as the two scuffled on the sidewalk at a gated apartment community in Sanford. That's when Zimmerman said he pulled the gun and shot the teenager.

The tape shows two butterfly bandages on the back of Zimmerman's head and another on his nose. There are red marks on the front of his head.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-reenactment-trayvon-martin-shooting/story?id=16616864#.T-M1sZHdX-s

This one has a more lengthy article.


"He took my head and slammed it against the concrete several times, and each time I thought my head was going to explode and I thought I was going to lose consciousness," George Zimmerman told police the day after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

"I started screaming for help," but Martin pressed his hands over Zimmerman's mouth and nose, he said. "He told me to shut the f&#k up, and I was suffocating."

Zimmerman told police he was lying on the ground, but his head was on the concrete.

"I didn't want him to keep slamming my head on the concrete so I kind of shifted. But when I shifted my jacket came up…and it exposed my firearm. That's when he said you are going to die tonight. He took one hand off my mouth, and slid it down my chest. I took my gun aimed it at him and fired."

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/square/000/001/231/yougonget.jpg
"You are going to die tonight."

[4a6c1]

Are people in this thread still defending the guy that lied about how much money he had to get out of jail? Invented a secret code to talk to his wife on the phone about how much much they had in a super secret pay pal account? Sounds like a spoiled brat who thinks he can get away with murder to me. Perfect right leaning role model I guess. QUESTION MARKS.

[Parkbandit]

Are people in this thread still defending the guy that lied about how much money he had to get out of jail? Invented a secret code to talk to his wife on the phone about how much much they had in a super secret pay pal account? Sounds like a spoiled brat who thinks he can get away with murder to me. Perfect right leaning role model I guess. QUESTION MARKS.

I heard if you "lied" about how much money you had, it's an admission of guilt in a murder trial. Why is George even going through with this trial with that type of evidence???

[diethx]

I heard if you "lied" about how much money you had, it's an admission of guilt in a murder trial. Why is George even going through with this trial with that type of evidence???

It's not. But why would he lie about having money donated to him for bail and lawyers and whatnot, at a bail hearing? What is wrong with him?

[Atlanteax]

It's not. But why would he lie about having money donated to him for bail and lawyers and whatnot, at a bail hearing? What is wrong with him?

Because there is so many ways that money could get tied down ... and he probably was not confident at the time that he would be able to use it (or enough of it) to pay for legal expenses.

If you got $40,000 limit on your credit card ... you *could* tap it as needed, but is it *really* considered available funds?

[diethx]

A bunch of money sent via donations to your legal fund does not really equate to using your credit card.

[Parkbandit]

It's not. But why would he lie about having money donated to him for bail and lawyers and whatnot, at a bail hearing? What is wrong with him?

I think there is plenty wrong with him. This money thing.. him calling 911 so many times.. His earlier arrest record...

They don't mean he's guilty of murder though.

[Back]

I think there is plenty wrong with him. This money thing.. him calling 911 so many times.. His earlier arrest record...

They don't mean he's guilty of murder though.

It calls into question his character which is what the prosecutor needs to convince the jury that his defense story is disingenuous.

[Parkbandit]

It calls into question his character which is what the prosecutor needs to convince the jury that his defense story is disingenuous.

If his story matches up with the forensic evidence, then he's found innocent. From most accounts, it seems to be the case.

Remember, the prosecution needs to prove their case without a shadow of doubt.. good luck with that.

And if character is brought up, Trayvon isn't the innocent little 9 year old, football enthusiast the media portrays him as.

[TheEschaton]

His story definitely lines up with the forensic evidence. I do wonder if that's the product of lawyering though. It has all the right touches where he says he screamed, but Trayvon covered his mouth and told him to shut up, so any evidence of screaming on the tapes not being him doesn't hurt him because Trayvon covered his mouth, while still "proving" he feared for his life. It also says he shifted, and Trayvon saw the gun, reached for it, and said "you're going to die tonight" which is all conjecture, and only corroborated by him, and almost impossible to disprove in a forensics sense without cameras taping the scene, but nevertheless makes him sound in the right.

The part of defense that really sickens me is that the defendant can make shit up (with or without the aid of his lawyer) and it doesn't matter, it is the prosecution's job to prove it didn't happen, which is often impossible. Anything Trayvon said that Zimmerman said he said is suspect, imo. Can the prosecution prove it's suspect? Probably not.

[Atlanteax]

His story definitely lines up with the forensic evidence. I do wonder if that's the product of lawyering though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zimmerman's reactment was the following-day after the shooting ... and this video was just so long in being released to the public (for whatever reason ... when it should had been available early on when the public sentiment was overwhelming anti-Zimmerman).

[AnticorRifling]

Why does it matter when it's released to the public? It should be released to the jury and courts because that's where he's on trial.

The biggest issue I've got with cases like this, and I'm pretty sure I said it in this thread is the fact that we've become ok with trying someone in the court of public opinion and letting that get in the way of an actual clean court trial.

[Parkbandit]

His story definitely lines up with the forensic evidence. I do wonder if that's the product of lawyering though. It has all the right touches where he says he screamed, but Trayvon covered his mouth and told him to shut up, so any evidence of screaming on the tapes not being him doesn't hurt him because Trayvon covered his mouth, while still "proving" he feared for his life. It also says he shifted, and Trayvon saw the gun, reached for it, and said "you're going to die tonight" which is all conjecture, and only corroborated by him, and almost impossible to disprove in a forensics sense without cameras taping the scene, but nevertheless makes him sound in the right.

The part of defense that really sickens me is that the defendant can make shit up (with or without the aid of his lawyer) and it doesn't matter, it is the prosecution's job to prove it didn't happen, which is often impossible. Anything Trayvon said that Zimmerman said he said is suspect, imo. Can the prosecution prove it's suspect? Probably not.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GJrqfvhd4oc/TkWCJc9rgmI/AAAAAAAAARI/nbNGU_L61_A/s1600/wtf+face.jpg

[Parkbandit]

Why does it matter when it's released to the public? It should be released to the jury and courts because that's where he's on trial.

The biggest issue I've got with cases like this, and I'm pretty sure I said it in this thread is the fact that we've become ok with trying someone in the court of public opinion and letting that get in the way of an actual clean court trial.

I agree.. but in Florida we have some bullshit law on the books that gives the media power over information so they can get pretty much any evidence there is and publish it.

[Androidpk]

Why does it matter when it's released to the public? It should be released to the jury and courts because that's where he's on trial.

The biggest issue I've got with cases like this, and I'm pretty sure I said it in this thread is the fact that we've become ok with trying someone in the court of public opinion and letting that get in the way of an actual clean court trial.


He's a witch!

[AnticorRifling]

Don't get me wrong I think the media should report it and the evidence should be made public....but not before the courts/court system/jury/etc has a clean un(ok less than)biased look at it.

[Parkbandit]

Don't get me wrong I think the media should report it and the evidence should be made public....but not before the courts/court system/jury/etc has a clean un(ok less than)biased look at it.

I heard that Florida passed that law to make sure law enforcement did their job and to hold them more accountable. It's now used to sway public opinion before the jury is even selected.

[Latrinsorm]

Why does it matter when it's released to the public? It should be released to the jury and courts because that's where he's on trial.

The biggest issue I've got with cases like this, and I'm pretty sure I said it in this thread is the fact that we've become ok with trying someone in the court of public opinion and letting that get in the way of an actual clean court trial.You can see why that would happen though, don't you? There are too many problems, too much archaic nonsense in our court system. Being kicked around in the court of public opinion is a much better alternative than being kicked around by a lynch mob.

[AnticorRifling]

The difference between the two being a piece of rope I guess?

I see PBs post saying it's done this way to make the law enforcement accountable, which is great. But I'm not sure it's great if it means someone isn't given a fair shake and worst case someone that innocent is found guilty because of the picture that is painted to get ratings(IE what "news" is currently about). What's the right solution here?

[Latrinsorm]

Universal surveillance! No more "ok you had a warrant to search his house but this closet was sublet to his cousin so the bloody clothes, murder weapon, notarized confession, and self-videotape of the murder are all out, because that's what justice is about". No more stupid eyewitnesses. Close down on what people think they can get away with, and deterrence actually means something.

[Parkbandit]

What's the right solution here?

Pre-crime detection.

[Androidpk]

Biological black boxes for humans.

[AnticorRifling]

That's the ticket, let's go to extremes. Glad to see you're all on board...

[Latrinsorm]

I disagree that it's an extreme. Think of how much surveillance we already have, especially in big cities. It's just a matter of organizing it systematically rather than having a haphazard array of ATMs, private stores, and traffic lights. Zoom in... and enhance.

[AnticorRifling]

You sir make my head hurt but I at least know you're kidding...the TV shows that "enhance" captured images make me want to kick my sweet, sexy 60in SONY but I would never do that because it's my precious.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm more for the ship all the extremely violent criminals to an island full of video cameras and on a satellite feed and then sell a live feed to it like PPV. Periodically invade to rough em up, sell man hunting expeditions, and ensure they never get a technological level high enough to leave the island. You know, running man type shit. Or hunger games, whatever.

[AnticorRifling]

That's called Cuba.

[Back]

Sounds like Shattered. Some people might even pay to play.

[Drakefang]

Ray Liotta already did this movie. It was called No Escape. Also, Steve Austin did something similar in The Condemned. Death Race was on an island prison with full video feeds. Obviously, someone else agrees with you since they keep making movies with this sort of theme.

[WRoss]

I'm more for the ship all the extremely violent criminals to an island full of video cameras and on a satellite feed and then sell a live feed to it like PPV. Periodically invade to rough em up, sell man hunting expeditions, and ensure they never get a technological level high enough to leave the island. You know, running man type shit. Or hunger games, whatever.

I got offered to be a hunting guide in Tanzania this summer. During my first month, while being trained, one of my main jobs was to do what was called "poacher watch." Basically, it would be to look for anyone with a weapon who wasn't with an official group and shoot them. This also happens all over the area. Hell, maybe I'd run into Kony if I went west. Anyways, all you need is a film crew and enough money to bribe the government to film. Not sure they'd like that as they are hunting elephants and rhinos.

[Atlanteax]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/george-zimmerman-case_n_1669153.html?ncid=webmail1


In nearly 300 pages of documents and other evidence newly released by the Florida State Attorney's Office in its second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman, Zimmerman appears at once absolved of racial animus in the killing of Trayvon Martin

It was not racially-motivated... "Suck it Trebeck!"


But, according to the FBI report, Serino added that he believed Zimmerman's actions on the night of the killing -- when he saw Martin walking home from a nearby store, and began following and ultimately shot him -- were motivated less by Martin's skin color and more by a "little hero complex."

Essentially Zimmerman wanted to be neigherhood-watch hero for stopping a criminal.

[diethx]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/george-zimmerman-case_n_1669153.html?ncid=webmail1



It was not racially-motivated... "Suck it Trebeck!"



Essentially Zimmerman wanted to be neigherhood-watch hero for stopping a criminal.

And he thought he was a criminal cause he was black. RACIST!!!!!!!!!!11

[Latrinsorm]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/george-zimmerman-case_n_1669153.html?ncid=webmail1



It was not racially-motivated... "Suck it Trebeck!"



Essentially Zimmerman wanted to be neigherhood-watch hero for stopping a criminal.I'm not sure what Kant would say about it, but it does feel good to be proven right.

[g++]

Well apparently the judge in the case released tapes of someone claiming zimmerman molested them now lol?

[Warriorbird]

Well apparently the judge in the case released tapes of someone claiming zimmerman molested them now lol?

Wow. This case is crazy.

[Jarvan]

Well apparently the judge in the case released tapes of someone claiming zimmerman molested them now lol?

It's called, "we have to make him look bad now since the FBI cleared him of Racism"

it's VERY funny that this was released the next news day after the FBI basically cleared him of Racial motivation.

if you have listened to this tape, you will laugh.. except for those people like Back, who will hear it and want him burned.

The lady says he and his family is racist, but can't say WHAT Zimmerman ever said, nor specifically what his family said. other then his mom one time at a party saying she doesn't Like Obama. When asked why.. "cause he is Black" "i'm a Racist" she claims the mom says.

First off, unless your at a Klan meeting, no one says that. The only people that say that are the far left nut jobs when you say you don't like Obama.. it's cause your racist. It's likely how she was using it, but seriously.. if the Prosecutors use this, he will easily walk.

[g++]

It's called, "we have to make him look bad now since the FBI cleared him of Racism"


Who is we? The judge released it despite the request of both the prosecution and defense to seal it.

[Atlanteax]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/us/florida-trayvon-martin-case/index.html?iref=obinsite


The state's chief witness in the Trayvon Martin murder case lied under oath, prosecutors say.

The young woman who says she was on the phone with Martin when he encountered George Zimmerman lied about her whereabouts at another time, the prosecution told a judge Tuesday.

Imagine that!

[Parkbandit]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/us/florida-trayvon-martin-case/index.html?iref=obinsite

Imagine that!

Racist.

[Candor]

Here's a wild and crazy idea - let the trial finish before offering any more opinions as to what happened. We don't have complete information.

[Parkbandit]

Here's a wild and crazy idea - let the trial finish before offering any more opinions as to what happened. We don't have complete information.

So.. you don't think we should tweet out Zimmerman's address so we can take the law into our own hands?

Clearly, you must be a racist.

[Bobmuhthol]

Here's a wild and crazy idea - let the trial finish before offering any more opinions as to what happened. We don't have complete information.American trials: the true source of what actually happened.

[Latrinsorm]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/us/florida-trayvon-martin-case/index.html?iref=obinsite



Imagine that!I did. I imagined sitting on the jury, I imagined hearing the defense offer no rebuttal to her testimony of the alleged crime, and I imagined the prosecution later mention that she was lying or mistaken about an unrelated bit of testimony. In the American justice system, a jury member can believe a witness' testimony in whole, in part, or not at all.

What did you imagine?

[Atlanteax]

Figured I would bump this thread instead of the other one that has gotten derailed.

So I thought I'd catch-up on the trial, and came across a few things that was certainly neglected in the spotlight early on when it was insisted that Trayvon Martin was 100% innocent.

From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/05/trayvon-martin-mother-brother-george-zimmerman-trial_n_3550145.html

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/301818/slide_301818_2551476_free.jpg?1371853398000

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/301818/slide_301818_2551492_free.jpg?1371853398000

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/301818/slide_301818_2551495_free.jpg?1371853398000

I wonder how much (less) "unrest" we would had seen if this was out in the spotlight while people were fine-combing all over Zimmerman's past history.

[Back]

Figured I would bump this thread instead of the other one that has gotten derailed.

I don't see how any of that justifies an unarmed 17 year olds death. You are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel, dude. People like you disgust me.

[Ker_Thwap]

I don't see how any of that justifies an unarmed 17 year olds death. You are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel, dude. People like you disgust me.

I'm not on the jury, and I really don't care much, but... Are these pictures any more or less relevant than the nice little pictures of him from when he was age 12? that were originally plastered all over the internet?

[Tgo01]

I don't see how any of that justifies an unarmed 17 year olds death.

No one said these pictures justify someone's death. Calm down.

[Parkbandit]

If his story matches up with the forensic evidence, then he's found innocent. From most accounts, it seems to be the case.

Remember, the prosecution needs to prove their case without a shadow of doubt.. good luck with that.

And if character is brought up, Trayvon isn't the innocent little 9 year old, football enthusiast the media portrays him as.

This is looking more and more likely...

[Methais]

I don't see how any of that justifies an unarmed 17 year olds death. You are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel, dude. People like you disgust me.

You're not that simple minded that you can't figure out on your own that it's more of a "here are recent pics of that innocent looking kid the MSM showed you pics of when he was 12 to trigger an emotional knee jerk response from uninformed dumb fucks who think Trayvon was just an innocent kid that didn't try to be gangsta at all while we show you only pictures of George Zimmerman in an old mugshot" thing, are you?

[Parkbandit]

You're not that simple minded that you can't figure out on your own that it's more of a "here are recent pics of that innocent looking kid the MSM showed you pics of when he was 12 to trigger an emotional knee jerk response from uninformed dumb fucks who think Trayvon was just an innocent kid that didn't try to be gangsta at all while we show you only pictures of George Zimmerman in an old mugshot" thing, are you?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz7lpslmay1rn5b0zo1_500.gif

[Back]

You're not that simple minded that you can't figure out on your own that it's more of a "here are recent pics of that innocent looking kid the MSM showed you pics of when he was 12 to trigger an emotional knee jerk response from uninformed dumb fucks who think Trayvon was just an innocent kid that didn't try to be gangsta at all while we show you only pictures of George Zimmerman in an old mugshot" thing, are you?

While I would hope Trayvon would have gone down a good path in life we will never know because he did not get that chance. You can find a million pics of kids at his age doing what he was doing and even stupider shit. How many of us can say we never smoked weed or held a gun in their hand? Guilty on both counts here. Kid would be a hero to the legalization movement and Second Amendment enthusiasts.

[Androidpk]

While I would hope Trayvon would have gone down a good path in life we will never know because he did not get that chance. You can find a million pics of kids at his age doing what he was doing and even stupider shit. How many of us can say we never smoked weed or held a gun in their hand? Guilty on both counts here. Kid would be a hero to the legalization movement and Second Amendment enthusiasts.


The legalization movement and second amendment enthusiasts don't want some thug life wannabe as their poster boy. Maybe if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman and crack his head open like an egg he'd still be alive. The "kid" was a junkie and a thief and he got what he deserved.

[Methais]

While I would hope Trayvon would have gone down a good path in life we will never know because he did not get that chance. You can find a million pics of kids at his age doing what he was doing and even stupider shit. How many of us can say we never smoked weed or held a gun in their hand? Guilty on both counts here. Kid would be a hero to the legalization movement and Second Amendment enthusiasts.

What is your fetish with being willfully ignorant?

The point is someone who wants to be all gangsta is far more likely to start a fight with someone than some little babyfaced kid that just wants to play football.

I wonder if that gun was obtained legally. What do you think? Do you believe that the "innocent" old pics of Trayvon and the old mugshot pics of Zimmerman that have been posted by the MSM weren't done to intentionally try to mislead the public to rally people around Trayvon and convict Zimmerman from the get go via emotional knee jerk responses from clueless viewers?

It's sort of like a chick posting an old pic of herself dressed up for church, claiming that she'll be a virgin until she's married, only to later find pics from last week of her doing A2M in a 10 dude gangbang.

I think it's safe to say that Trayvon wasn't on his way down the good path like you had hoped.

[tyrant-201]

With a name like Trayvon how could he not be gangsta!

[Back]

The "kid" was a junkie and a thief and he got what he deserved.

...

[Methais]

With a name like Trayvon how could he not be gangsta!

The only thing Trayvon is guilty of was BEING HUNTED DOWN LIKE A RABID DOG by a white guy who isn't really white.

If only Obama had been there, he could have swooped in and done something like this to save his would-be looking son:

0:50

http://youtu.be/HKUwkyVuJKE

[Jarvan]

I don't see how any of that justifies an unarmed 17 year olds death. You are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel, dude. People like you disgust me.

Got a question Back, if Martin hadn't been a criminal(we know he was), would he have gotten shot and killed that night?

What led up to the fatal encounter..

Rash of burglaries in Zimmerman's community. Reports that most if not all done by "young black men". Martin actually didn't live in the neighborhood, he was there because he was suspended from school for drug possession (a crime by the way). He also had numerous pieces of jewelery in his backpack at school that was not his. (stolen) No matter how you look at it, Martin did not run. He was a block or so from his destination, he was young, fit and could easily make it. Martin's online Persona was of a gangster "N-word" (as obvious from his twitter handle and pictures he posted routinely). There was a fight, Zimmerman was on the bottom (evidence proves this) Zimmerman was physically damaged, Martin only had a gunshot wound.

So lets sum it up...

Martin was a criminal, and if he hadn't been one and been suspended, it is extremely likely he would not have been there that night. If he was not there, Zimmerman would not have spooked him. (btw.. how many people see a single person, and think.. omg I am being followed and they are out to get me.. if they are doing nothing wrong) There would have been no encounter, and he would not have struck Zimmerman, Zimmerman would then not have feared for his life, and shot him.

Martin did not need to die. Period.

But sorry, his prior history is entirely admissible in this case as is Zimmerman's. He was a wana be Thug, if not a Thug for real. People act like he was a straight A honor roll student that never did anything wrong. How many straight A honor students generally confront someone they think is "stalking" them?

The only reason this case is a case is cause Martin was Black. If he had been white, Asian, Hispanic... it would not have gone to trial. Would Zimmerman have still called the cops if he was any of those? Who knows.. Zimmerman appears to have been a paranoid nutjob in my view. He took the watch thing to the extreme.

Suffice it to say, if Zimmerman is convicted, it won't be because of evidence, cause there is Zero evidence. It will be purely on emotion.

[Battlerager]

The thing I can't figure out is there are about 12 black kids gunned down each night in Chicago. Where is the uproar about that? I guess it takes one hispanic guy with a white sounding name to kill a black person to set them off. In the mean time they kill each other day and night over stupid crap and it's just fine.

[Back]

It's getting really really white up in here. I'm out.

[Lord Orbstar]

when you have a gun, you can never lose the fight. That is a basic tenet of law enforcement. If you are getting beat on...losing the fist fight...you have to assume the person you are losing to will get your gun then shoot you dead while you are helpless. The kid learned that life lesson then left this earth. Of course, the other side is: if you have a gun, you dont fight or let the other person know you have a gun. A gun is for last ditch fear for your life survival. Zimmerman felt that fear and did what he, regrettably, had to do. He should have not BEEN in that situation, but he was. Not guilty by the laws of man. God's judgment may not be so lenient. who knows.

[Androidpk]

If Obama took a shit it would look just like Back.

[Lord Orbstar]

Oh, are you Back in black now?

[Tgo01]

How many of us can say we never smoked weed or held a gun in their hand?

Me.

[tyrant-201]

Me.

It's time to man up, sir. Man up.

[Jarvan]

Me.

I've never smoked weed. I own a number of Guns. I never took a picture of me holding any, actually never take any pictures of them. Why would I need to? I know what they look like.

On a side note, owning a gun or holding it isn't illegal.. of course that could COULDN'T have been Trayvon's. He is to young.

On the other hand, owning pot and smoking it is illegal, and growing it is as well. Certainly in FL, and still technically a federal crime..

[Atlanteax]

It's getting really really white up in here. I'm out.

Wow, you are seriously bigoted.

[Latrinsorm]

The legalization movement and second amendment enthusiasts don't want some thug life wannabe as their poster boy. Maybe if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman and crack his head open like an egg he'd still be alive. The "kid" was a junkie and a thief and he got what he deserved.Your omelettes must be pretty disgusting if Zimmerman's wounds are indicative of how you crack open eggs.
(btw.. how many people see a single person, and think.. omg I am being followed and they are out to get me.. if they are doing nothing wrong)Are you honestly unfamiliar with how disproportionately minorities are targeted for crimes?
But sorry, his prior history is entirely admissible in this case as is Zimmerman's.This is not actually how the legal system works. It's called "prior bad acts", and its regulation is much stricter than "Jarvan said it was okay".

[Jarvan]

Your omelettes must be pretty disgusting if Zimmerman's wounds are indicative of how you crack open eggs.Are you honestly unfamiliar with how disproportionately minorities are targeted for crimes?This is not actually how the legal system works. It's called "prior bad acts", and its regulation is much stricter than "Jarvan said it was okay".

Sorry I am not a lawyer. But lets say Martin beat up a number of other adults previously. Would that not be relevant in this case? That MAYBE Martin started the fight and was striking Zimmerman? Not to mention, if he WAS a thief.. (he DID have stolen Jewelery) you really can't say he WASN'T casing homes to steal from.

I mean, really.. if Bobby brown got remarried and then shot in what would seem self defense but no one was there to see.. you couldn't bring up his past physical abuse if the wife said he was beating her?

[Tgo01]

It's time to man up, sir. Man up.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjnj27mQx1qgr9lwo1_400.jpg

[tyrant-201]

I bet your mom told you not to play with guns, too. Fucking conformists.

[Methais]

The thing I can't figure out is there are about 12 black kids gunned down each night in Chicago. Where is the uproar about that? I guess it takes one hispanic guy with a white sounding name to kill a black person to set them off. In the mean time they kill each other day and night over stupid crap and it's just fine.

There's no money to be made in black on black crime uproars.

And no white people to blame.

[tyrant-201]

This is true. There's many factors to black on black crime. Ultimately, who is it up to change the culture of violence? Seems kind of silly to blame the media for something that happens on a daily basis, and no one's surprised about.

Not trying to minimize it. It's a shame, truly, but I think all that media attention would do would encourage it.

[cwolff]

I bet your mom told you not to play with guns, too. Fucking conformists.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[Latrinsorm]

Sorry I am not a lawyer. But lets say Martin beat up a number of other adults previously. Would that not be relevant in this case? That MAYBE Martin started the fight and was striking Zimmerman? Not to mention, if he WAS a thief.. (he DID have stolen Jewelery) you really can't say he WASN'T casing homes to steal from.

I mean, really.. if Bobby brown got remarried and then shot in what would seem self defense but no one was there to see.. you couldn't bring up his past physical abuse if the wife said he was beating her?You're not going to believe this, but the legal rules for this are extremely intricate and complicated. Starting with Zimmerman's side, every Law and Order fan knows the Molineux exception, which comes from an appeal in 1901 (People v. Molineux). Here are the relevant excerpts (http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/archives/p_molineux.htm):

"The general rule of evidence applicable to criminal trials is that the state cannot prove against a defendant any crime not alleged in the indictment, either as a foundation for a separate punishment, or as aiding the proofs that he is guilty of the crime charged. ... The exceptions to the rule cannot be stated with categorical precision. Generally speaking, evidence of other crimes is competent to prove the specific crime charged when it tends to establish (1) motive; (2) intent; (3) the absence of mistake or accident; (4) a common scheme or plan embracing the commission of two or more crimes so related to each other that proof of one tends to establish the others; (5) the identity of the person charged with the commission of the crime on trial."

Good luck deciding which exceptions if any apply to Zimmerman, especially since he's being tried in Florida rather than New York.

.

For Martin's side, you are allowed to (try to) blame the victim in most cases: rape shield laws were specifically implemented as an exception. Your suggested assertions don't have legal problems, only logical ones:

1. "Martin beat people up". It is established that Martin initially fled Zimmerman, which is not the behavior of someone looking for a one on one fight.
2. "If he was a thief, you can't say he wasn't casing houses." Of course I can say that. You aren't employed in your occupation 24 hours a day, why would a thief be any different? LeBron James is a basketball player, but that does not imply that he is playing basketball at this moment.

[Atlanteax]

Newly discovered video of Zimmerman defending himself after getting jumped by Trayvon Martin

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/shocking-video-released-fatal-shooting-newlywed-kansas-city-firefighter-article-1.1708199

[cwolff]

Newly discovered video of Zimmerman defending himself after getting jumped by Trayvon Martin

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/shocking-video-released-fatal-shooting-newlywed-kansas-city-firefighter-article-1.1708199

Wow, I didn't realize Trayvon was married.

[Atlanteax]

Wow, I didn't realize Trayvon was married.

Meh, details. Same situation either way.

[Johnny Five]

The point here being. Don't punch someone with a gun. And fuck that guy, he deserved to get shot.

[Methais]

I'd love to see the reactions if the firefighter guy was black.