New witness saw Trayvon attack Zimmerman

[Warriorbird]

Yea... it's like watching MSNBC or NBC or CBS or ABC or PBS or reading NYTimes or Washington Post.

If you can't differentiate between the above list you might indeed have some issues.

[Parkbandit]

If you can't differentiate between the above list you might indeed have some issues.

Of course. Keep telling yourself that there is a difference if it makes you feel better.

I'll deal with reality though.

[Back]

Of course. Keep telling yourself that there is a difference if it makes you feel better.

I'll deal with reality though.

If there isn't then why do you prefer FOX?

[Parkbandit]

If there isn't then why do you prefer FOX?

Could you point to the post I made that said I prefer FOX?

[Ryvicke]

Yea... it's like watching MSNBC or NBC or CBS or ABC or PBS or reading NYTimes or Washington Post.

If you meant "shows me words sometimes that are hard for me to sound out" then all these things are indeed just like Fox News. Come on feller PB, last I checked Ailes wasn't even trying to make this argument anymore.

[Ryvicke]

I'll deal with reality though.

I for one think it's awesome that we're finally to that point where we get to play "Alzheimer's or troll?" with your posts.

:love:

[Parkbandit]

If you meant "shows me words sometimes that are hard for me to sound out" then all these things are indeed just like Fox News. Come on feller PB, last I checked Ailes wasn't even trying to make this argument anymore.

There are certain people on this forum that wouldn't understand the concept... you are obviously one of them.

I knew that when I posted it.

[Jarvan]

PB, give up. There is one Conservative News network, Every other one is a Liberal hack network, so obviously Fox is bad.

Finding an unbiased print paper is impossible, same with an unbiased news agency. Fox may have Hannity, and that's basically it now really, but add in O'Reilly.

How many Liberal people does MSNBC have? How many do the papers have? How many opinion pieces, or editorials, are left leaning compared to right leaning?

Everything is biased, plain and simple. That's why your supposed to watch/read both sides, and make you OWN opinion. Then again, some people don't like others to even be allowed to say their side.

The fact they still call this White on Black crime is astounding. Why isn't all the Mexican killings of black people White on Black crime, since it's been stated many times by Latrine that Hispanic/Mexican is not a race, and they have to be either white or non-white. Course you can't point that out to them, since they all consider themselves Hispanic/Mexican generally.

[Back]

The fact they still call this White on Black crime is astounding. Why isn't all the Mexican killings of black people White on Black crime, since it's been stated many times by Latrine that Hispanic/Mexican is not a race, and they have to be either white or non-white. Course you can't point that out to them, since they all consider themselves Hispanic/Mexican generally.

The only people who seem to be bringing up race are you guys who are trying to villainize the dead, unarmed, 17 year old kid.

[Gelston]

Well, that and the people trying to say he was victimized due to color.

[Tgo01]

The only people who seem to be bringing up race are you guys who are trying to villainize the dead, unarmed, 17 year old kid.

You make me laugh Back.

[Parkbandit]

I for one think it's awesome that we're finally to that point where we get to play "Alzheimer's or troll?" with your posts.

:love:

I think it's awesome that we've always been at the point to know your posts are always idiotic and pointless.

Hey.. do you have that list of "unbiased" journalism you love to read so much?

Wait.. let me make a couple guesses:

US Magazine
Highlights
Mad Magazine
Transformer Comics

[Methais]

The only people who seem to be bringing up race are you guys who are trying to villainize the dead, unarmed, 17 year old kid.

And you know, almost every piece of left wing media, the black panthers with their $1m dead or alive bounty, Jesse Jacksoff & Al, etc.

[Ryvicke]

PB, give up. There is one Conservative News network, Every other one is a Liberal hack network, so obviously Fox is bad.

Finding an unbiased print paper is impossible, same with an unbiased news agency. Fox may have Hannity, and that's basically it now really, but add in O'Reilly.

How many Liberal people does MSNBC have? How many do the papers have? How many opinion pieces, or editorials, are left leaning compared to right leaning?

Everything is biased, plain and simple. That's why your supposed to watch/read both sides, and make you OWN opinion. Then again, some people don't like others to even be allowed to say their side.

The fact they still call this White on Black crime is astounding. Why isn't all the Mexican killings of black people White on Black crime, since it's been stated many times by Latrine that Hispanic/Mexican is not a race, and they have to be either white or non-white. Course you can't point that out to them, since they all consider themselves Hispanic/Mexican generally.

Look, I guess I can't really distill 4 years of journalism school into one post for you, but I guess the first really huge thing is that there is a marked difference between the obligations of a newspaper and that of a television network. Believe it or not objectivity is a HUGE selling point for a massive demographic of people that don't want opinion all over their fucking information. There are massive worldwide organizations with mission statements and goals to service this demographic by writing unbiased facts. This is almost solely the realm of the newspaper at this point, but it does exist in other mediums.

Here are three articles published in the New York Times in the last week alone that are critical of president Obama and liberals. They're not as insane and super-retarded fun as the links you guys find and they hardly ever call Obama a muslim (which is just the truth), but they are truly conservative. The Times has fucking conservatives that write weekly columns and get awards for them. I dunno, I guess I really am just beating a dead horse here. PB is either trolling or just plain dumb when he says that all of those media organizations are the same. Any amount of attention paid can see incredible differences in the newsrooms even between networks like NBC and ABC. Eh, ok--anyhow.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/opinion/brooks-that-other-obama.html?scp=7&sq=obama&st=cse

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/07/business/lots-of-accolades-but-little-action-on-budget-plan-common-sense.html

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/the-liberalism-of-fear/?scp=5&sq=douthat&st=Search

[Back]

And you know, almost every piece of left wing media, the black panthers with their $1m dead or alive bounty, Jesse Jacksoff & Al, etc.

Ok, I'll reiterate because yes, you are correct, the racial issue is very clear here. We should all see it as big as day. In this country, specifically, systematic racial marginalization was the standard for a very long time. It was the rule, not the exception. It is only very recently in our history that we have come to see the injustice of it and correct it. This process has not gone as fast as some would like but it has been changing for the better.

My comment about the only people bringing up race while villainizing the dead kid pertained to a few people on this message board.

But I personally would disagree with you about the majority of the media.

[Gelston]

The issue exists on this board because the media made a racial issue of it.

[Ryvicke]

I can't quite understand this straw man that we're posting about now: is anyone denying that the story has ridiculous traction because of race? It's not the only interesting element but it's easily the biggest. Race (and even better, race and possible police bias against a minority), gun violence, the existence of Stand Your Ground laws that are relatively new--this shit is obviously fucking gold. Why are we having this conversation about why this thing is popular?

[Gelston]

I can't quite understand this straw man that we're posting about now: is anyone denying that the story has ridiculous traction because of race? It's not the only interesting element but it's easily the biggest. Race (and even better, race and possible police bias against a minority), gun violence, the existence of Stand Your Ground laws that are relatively new--this shit is obviously fucking gold. Why are we having this conversation about why this thing is popular?

Ask Back.

[Tgo01]

Can someone clear this up for me? I thought the state had to bring charges against you for a hate crime before trial, like they are specifically charging you with a hate crime. However someone I'm arguing with says, for instance in this case, they can charge Zimmerman with second degree murder then in the trial if they can also prove it was motivated by race then Zimmerman gets extra time tacked on to his sentence if he's found guilty.

I know federal hate crime laws are actually separate crimes altogether and therefore people are specifically charged with a hate crime in those instances.

[droit]

As far as unbiased reporting goes, I think NPR has claim to be the "fair and balanced" outlet around, contrary to most conservative's beliefs. Check out this study. (http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1180) It's from 2003, so it could be a little out of date, but it shows that NPR actually had more conservative guests/sources than it did liberal ones.



Despite the commonness of such claims, little evidence has ever been presented for a left bias at NPR, and FAIR’s latest study gives it no support. Looking at partisan sources—including government officials, party officials, campaign workers and consultants—Republicans outnumbered Democrats by more than 3 to 2 (61 percent to 38 percent). A majority of Republican sources when the GOP controls the White House and Congress may not be surprising, but Republicans held a similar though slightly smaller edge (57 percent to 42 percent) in 1993, when Clinton was president and Democrats controlled both houses of Congress. And a lively race for the Democratic presidential nomination was beginning to heat up at the time of the 2003 study.

Partisans from outside the two major parties were almost nowhere to be seen, with the exception of four Libertarian Party representatives who appeared in a single story (Morning Edition, 6/26/03).

Republicans not only had a substantial partisan edge, individual Republicans were NPR’s most popular sources overall, taking the top seven spots in frequency of appearance. George Bush led all sources for the month with 36 appearances, followed by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld (8) and Sen. Pat Roberts (6). Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, Secretary of State Colin Powell, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer and Iraq proconsul Paul Bremer all tied with five appearances each.




FAIR classified each think tank by ideological orientation as either centrist, right of center or left of center. Representatives of think tanks to the right of center outnumbered those to the left of center by more than four to one: 62 appearances to 15. Centrist think tanks provided sources for 56 appearances.

The most often quoted think tank was the centrist Brookings Institution, quoted 31 times; it was also the most quoted think tank in 1993. It was followed by 19 appearances by the conservative Center for Strategic and International Studies and 17 by the centrist Council on Foreign Relations. The most frequently cited left-of-center organization was the Urban Institute, with eight appearances.


Of course, reality has a well known liberal bias.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/site_furniture/2008/05/30/colbert460.jpg

[Methais]

I can't quite understand this straw man that we're posting about now: is anyone denying that the story has ridiculous traction because of race?

It's only that way because the media wanted it to be and made sure of it.


(and even better, race and possible police bias against a minority)

Last I checked, hispanics are still minorities too. At least until 2035 or whenever they're supposed to take over.

[Ryvicke]

It's only that way because the media wanted it to be and made sure of it.



Last I checked, hispanics are still minorities too. At least until 2035 or whenever they're supposed to take over.

I think you're really reaching. The media didn't have to jump through too many hoops to make this a massive story.

[Gelston]

The media can make anything a massive story if they don't stfu about something, honestly.

[RichardCranium]

I think you're really reaching. The media didn't have to jump through too many hoops to make this a massive story.

Just one.

[Back]

It's only that way because the media wanted it to be and made sure of it.

The media. The media. The media. Is "the media" the new "Illuminati"? Or (gasp) does the Illuminati control the media???

[Gelston]

The media. The media. The media. Is "the media" the new "Illuminati"? Or (gasp) does the Illuminati control the media???

Are you doubting the power of the media?

[Ryvicke]

Are you doubting the power of the media?

I doubt the shit out of it, plenty of stories that would benefit the media's bottom line don't stick just cause they'd like them to. You can read about a hundred articles written in the past year about the power of pageviews and the direct and immediate feedback orgs get through their sites now that they never had before. When people don't click the story goes away. It's not the other way around.

[Androidpk]

When people don't click the story goes away.

This is so true.

[Ryvicke]

This is so true.

4srs or sarcasm? I NEED YOUR VALIDATION, PK.

Speaking of: why won't the fucking media ever give Ron Paul two goddam seconds?

Also, is it me or is Ron Paul charismatic as fuck and Rand Paul looks like a broken alligator when he talks? I feel like he needs to study pops a bit more.

[Methais]

I think you're really reaching. The media didn't have to jump through too many hoops to make this a massive story.

Yeah, all they had to do was doctor some audio (and pictures of Trayvon to make him look 12) and present a totally out of context false conversation, changing words around that weren't actually said. Stuff like that.

http://gifs.gifbin.com/1232550426_worf%20face%20palm.gif

[Ryvicke]

Yeah, all they had to do was doctor some audio (and pictures of Trayvon to make him look 12) and present a totally out of context false conversation, changing words around that weren't actually said. Stuff like that.

http://gifs.gifbin.com/1232550426_worf%20face%20palm.gif

Yeah... no one actually saw that NBC thing dude. We were discussing the full transcript of the call here within a day as was everyone else I ever talked to. If it was more than that one report on that one network out of the billion reports and the billion networks covering it I'd say you have a case on that one.

The pictures are tough, obviously we both know the long story of why they were there in the beginning and why the ones that are shown now are shown now.

So I'm guessing you don't think he should have been taken in tonight? Do you blame his family for trying to involve everyone they could have to attempt to get what they see as justice for their dead son?

[Gelston]

I doubt the shit out of it, plenty of stories that would benefit the media's bottom line don't stick just cause they'd like them to. You can read about a hundred articles written in the past year about the power of pageviews and the direct and immediate feedback orgs get through their sites now that they never had before. When people don't click the story goes away. It's not the other way around.

So you think if the media had never even mentioned this story we'd still all be talking about it?

[Methais]

Yeah... no one actually saw that NBC thing dude. We were discussing the full transcript of the call here within a day as was everyone else I ever talked to. If it was more than that one report on that one network out of the billion reports and the billion networks covering it I'd say you have a case on that one.

The pictures are tough, obviously we both know the long story of why they were there in the beginning and why the ones that are shown now are shown now.

So I'm guessing you don't think he should have been taken in tonight? Do you blame his family for trying to involve everyone they could have to attempt to get what they see as justice for their dead son?

If he's guilty then he's guilty. If he's not then he's not. That's not my point. My point is the feigned media outrage because it's a chance to twist it into some racially motivated bullshit in order to send people into a frenzy for their own agenda. The media doesn't actually give a shit about Trayvon or his family. If you think they do then you're retarded.

Only the media can turn a hispanic guy into a white guy.

Stop being retarded.

[Tgo01]

We were discussing the full transcript of the call here within a day as was everyone else I ever talked to.

You must be living under a rock or you haven't been paying much attention to this case. I've heard plenty of people as recently as last week still think the 911 call went "I see a suspicious looking person...I think he's black." Not to mention people who are still claiming Zimmerman weighed over 250 pounds. Also people still believe there is definitive proof that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the 911 guy said not to. In fact I think Back still believes all three of these.

[Ryvicke]

So you think if the media had never even mentioned this story we'd still all be talking about it?

Are you referring to the mainstream media? There are a lot of stories that are massive on the web that never get picked up for wider consumption. This story being one of them in the beginning actually, for three weeks this got passed around before that (lily white, irish) guy put the petition on change.org and it blew up.

But it seems like you're inverting what I said--I'm working with the assumption that you understand pageviews, page rank and web advertising revenue. If the story is something we are talking about, it will be in the media to generate revenue. And like I said in my post, not the other way around. It's no Field of Dreams, "if you build it they will click," web editors don't hold some magical control over everybody and can miraculously make stories huge just by putting them on their sites, people still have to be interested.

[Gelston]

Media is media is media no matter what format it is on.

But no. I am saying the media is powerful in that if it is a story they don't feel like showing, the vast majority of people in this country will never hear of it. They, in essence, control what you see.

[Ryvicke]

If he's guilty then he's guilty. If he's not then he's not. That's not my point. My point is the feigned media outrage because it's a chance to twist it into some racially motivated bullshit in order to send people into a frenzy for their own agenda. The media doesn't actually give a shit about Trayvon or his family. If you think they do then you're retarded.

Only the media can turn a hispanic guy into a white guy.

Stop being retarded.

I guess I'm on the night shift.

Okay--dude, seriously. Let's just get one thing straight that you guys all seem to completely forget the moment we start talking. This case is HUGE because people are under the impression that the cops didn't do the right thing, by the law, that is number one. If George Zimmerman goes in, gets stuck in a cell for a few days and the prosecutor decides there's no evidence, this is MAYBE a 2,000 word feature in some shitty magazine politics section like Rolling Stone or something.

See that's the whole reason the media IS going apeshit, they're feeding the idea that people have that the media is that LAST and ONLY hope for this family and omg the media is the only thing that can bring justice to poor Trayvon. When the cops administer justice correctly, that power does not lie with the media, no matter how bad people freak the fuck out (see: OJ, Casey Anthony, two massive media stories that went away, after a bit of uproar, once justice was seen as served).

It's the fact that the cops did nothing that hooks people immediately. I don't know about you but I've read plenty of white guy shits on black guy and gets away with it because of a technicality, that's not a monster story.

[Tgo01]

Are you referring to the mainstream media? There are a lot of stories that are massive on the web that never get picked up for wider consumption. This story being one of them in the beginning actually, for three weeks this got passed around before that (lily white, irish) guy put the petition on change.org and it blew up.

But it seems like you're inverting what I said--I'm working with the assumption that you understand pageviews, page rank and web advertising revenue. If the story is something we are talking about, it will be in the media to generate revenue. And like I said in my post, not the other way around. It's no Field of Dreams, "if you build it they will click," web editors don't hold some magical control over everybody and can miraculously make stories huge just by putting them on their sites, people still have to be interested.

Obviously the media can't force people to be interested in a story. Do you really think the media can't make a story more "juicy" to appeal to a larger audience? Like say, quoting someone out of context to make him look like a racist? Using old photos of the victim when he was a child and using an old mugshot of the shooter? Releasing video of the shooter and having "experts" claim it proves the shooter didn't have the injuries he claimed to have?

[Ryvicke]

Media is media is media no matter what format it is on.

But no. I am saying the media is powerful in that if it is a story they don't feel like showing, the vast majority of people in this country will never hear of it. They, in essence, control what you see.

Seriously, dude, that's fucking ridiculous. Welcome to the internet. You know who doesn't cover crazy fucking Illuminati/Jay-Z/Beyonce stories? The media. You know who makes a fucking mint off of publishing them? Dudes on the internet. You know how many times these fucking links are sent to me to read in the last five years? One billion.

You have something interesting? I guarantee you I can get someone to publish it. If it's news with critical mass, it's going to be on whatever site wants the money the most.

The gatekeepers are dead. We are the gatekeepers. Get excited.

[Gelston]

You know most people don't actually get their news from the internet? They still get it from the TV in their office or whereever that has a 24/7 news station on?

[Ryvicke]

Obviously the media can't force people to be interested in a story. Do you really think the media can't make a story more "juicy" to appeal to a larger audience? Like say, quoting someone out of context to make him look like a racist? Using old photos of the victim when he was a child and using an old mugshot of the shooter? Releasing video of the shooter and having "experts" claim it proves the shooter didn't have the injuries he claimed to have?

No doubt, Tgo01, there is a distinct possibility of all of these things happening. It's a good fucking thing we have so very fucking many news outlets to cover so very fucking few stories, or we'd be in real trouble. That's the beauty of the news, you fuck it up--someone is going to figure it out.

Do you think NBC is happy they just lost face with a million people just like yourself that would have otherwise just thought, "oh, NBC? whatever" and now thinks "NBC those fucking dick-faced liars." They're obviously not happy about it, and will lose money because of it. That's their impetus not to fuck up. Editors and producers really aren't happy about getting shit wrong and being dragged through the mud.

[Tgo01]

Do you think NBC is happy they just lost face with a million people just like yourself that would have otherwise just thought, "oh, NBC? whatever" and now thinks "NBC those fucking dick-faced liars." They're obviously not happy about it, and will lose money because of it. That's their impetus not to fuck up. Editors and producers really aren't happy about getting shit wrong and being dragged through the mud.

Please. Most people in America want to be told what to think, who to hate. I never watched NBC anyways so I don't think NBC is worried about losing me as a viewer. The people who do watch NBC probably don't give a shit what they did because NBC was feeding them exactly what they wanted to believe.

How many times has Fox News been caught outright lying? They should have been shut down a long time ago if people didn't want to be lied to. Same goes with MSNBC.

You are right that people can't be "forced" to be interested in a news story but when most people do become interested in a news story they want to be told what to think and if they want to believe Zimmerman is a racist murdering piece of shit they will find a news outlet that will give them what they want.

[Ryvicke]

You know most people don't actually get their news from the internet? They still get it from the TV in their office or whereever that has a 24/7 news station on?

lol, dude you're getting more ridiculous by the second!

It's neck and neck right now between online and traditional, here's Pew from 2012:

http://stateofthemedia.org/

Online revenue growth and online minutes spent growth is outpacing all other formats by a factor of 23-1.

Unless by "most" you meant 50% and by "people" you meant retired people.

[Ryvicke]

Please. Most people in America want to be told what to think, who to hate. I never watched NBC anyways so I don't think NBC is worried about losing me as a viewer. The people who do watch NBC probably don't give a shit what they did because NBC was feeding them exactly what they wanted to believe.

How many times has Fox News been caught outright lying? They should have been shut down a long time ago if people didn't want to be lied to. Same goes with MSNBC.

You are right that people can't be "forced" to be interested in a news story but when most people do become interested in a news story they want to be told what to think and if they want to believe Zimmerman is a racist murdering piece of shit they will find a news outlet that will give them what they want.

Wow, you honestly really really surprised me here. I guess I don't know of anyone in my day-to-day life that fits into either category you mention. People I know ARE upset that NBC cut the call like that and people that I know definitely don't watch/read/listen to shit that they know lies to them. I sure as fuck don't seek out or stick with news outlets that I know are telling me lies.

Why the fuck do you?

[Ryvicke]

I got to all three of you already and none of you wrote anything back in the interim?

[Tgo01]

Wow, you honestly really really surprised me here. I guess I don't know of anyone in my day-to-day life that fits into either category you mention. People I know ARE upset that NBC cut the call like that and people that I know definitely don't watch/read/listen to shit that they know lies to them. I sure as fuck don't seek out or stick with news outlets that I know are telling me lies.

Why the fuck do you?

Oh you.

[Ryvicke]

Oh you.

:love:

I like these talks buddy, right now out of all the retards I think you're the least offensive.

It goes:

1. Tgo01 (least retarded, super shitty handle though)
2. PB
3. Atlanteax
4. Jarvan (like runaway winner for most retarded)

I just wanted to keep you guys updated.

[Celephais]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tPZzR7EpIjg/TUO3jGzl-HI/AAAAAAAAAhM/bOFuDj7LQ90/s1600/tropic+thunder+rdj.jpg

[Warriorbird]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tPZzR7EpIjg/TUO3jGzl-HI/AAAAAAAAAhM/bOFuDj7LQ90/s1600/tropic+thunder+rdj.jpg

Moral of the evening.

[Methais]

I guess I'm on the night shift.

Okay--dude, seriously. Let's just get one thing straight that you guys all seem to completely forget the moment we start talking. This case is HUGE because people are under the impression that the cops didn't do the right thing, by the law, that is number one. If George Zimmerman goes in, gets stuck in a cell for a few days and the prosecutor decides there's no evidence, this is MAYBE a 2,000 word feature in some shitty magazine politics section like Rolling Stone or something.

See that's the whole reason the media IS going apeshit, they're feeding the idea that people have that the media is that LAST and ONLY hope for this family and omg the media is the only thing that can bring justice to poor Trayvon. When the cops administer justice correctly, that power does not lie with the media, no matter how bad people freak the fuck out (see: OJ, Casey Anthony, two massive media stories that went away, after a bit of uproar, once justice was seen as served).

It's the fact that the cops did nothing that hooks people immediately. I don't know about you but I've read plenty of white guy shits on black guy and gets away with it because of a technicality, that's not a monster story.

Do you think this story (including all the ridiculously over the top uproar, complete with "dead or alive" bounties and doctoring audio & video to intentionally present a false image and whatnot) would be just as big or play out differently if Trayvon were a "white Hispanic" and Zimmerman was a black guy?

And do you think the media actually gives the slightest shit about Trayvon and/or his family?


I got to all three of you already and none of you wrote anything back in the interim?

I apologize. I was doing other things that don't involve mashing F5. I am scum.

[Warriorbird]

Do you think this story (including all the ridiculously over the top uproar, complete with "dead or alive" bounties and doctoring audio & video to intentionally present a false image and whatnot) would be just as big or play out differently if Trayvon were a "white Hispanic" and Zimmerman was a black guy?

And do you think the media actually gives the slightest shit about Trayvon and/or his family?



Do you think the conservative media does about Zimmerman? They're companies. "The news" exists to sell advertising space.

[Back]

George Zimmerman In Custody, Charged With Second-Degree Murder In Trayvon Martin Case (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-charged-second-degree-murder_n_1417198.html)

Really interesting stuff.

He turned himself in and will plead not guilty. Good on him. Were it me (thank god it isn't) I'd more likely be in Mexico learning Spanish by now.


The murder charge indicates prosecutors plan to prove Zimmerman shot Martin with malice, though without premeditation. A manslaughter charge would have required prosecutors to prove only that Zimmerman acted unlawfully and with criminal negligence in shooting the teen.

"The difference between murder and manslaughter is your mental state," said Mark Geragos, a Los Angeles defense attorney, who is not connected to the case. "To elevate it to murder, you have to have the element of malice."

In Florida, a grand jury must be convened before issuing first-degree murder charges. On Monday, Corey announced that she would not convene a grand jury, which had been scheduled for Tuesday, in the Martin case.

They plan to show malice and disprove self defense. My guess is they have been sitting on some evidence that has not leaked. Everything he did was lawful up to his shooting and killing Trayvon with malicious intent.


Martin's death and subsequent handling of the investigation also sparked national outrage and calls for Zimmerman's arrest. From the start, Martin’s family and attorneys questioned the impartiality and thoroughness of the police investigation into the teen’s killing.

Law enforcement experts said that Sanford police made key errors early in the investigation and made crucial decisions before important evidence was gathered.

Martin's cell phone records were not immediately checked. Investigators did not talk with key witnesses for more than a week. While police conducted a criminal background check on Martin, as well as post-mortem drug and alcohol tests, Zimmerman was not subjected to similar tests. It was learned later that Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for assaulting a police officer.

Just wow. Sanford police are the real problem with this whole thing. Had they done their jobs correctly we would not be here right now. I did not know they put Trayvon through a drug test and background check but did not for Zimmerman? Unbelievable.

Considering all the leaks over the past month... even Zimmerman may have been better off if the Sanford police done things correctly. They've really fucked it all up and continued to fuck it all up even after the fact.


"This case is won or lost in jury selection," Geragos said.

I'm guessing Zimmerman gets off due to hung jury or mistrial. Its clear that he knows the consequences of his actions and his culpability in it. It is true his life is forever altered over this. I think all anyone really wanted was justice to be properly served as we see it done as best we can every day in this country.

Personally I am relieved to see the system, for all its faults and flaws, followed through for both citizens. Whatever happened with the Sanford police department to let it get to this is really what needs to be fixed.

[Methais]

Do you think the conservative media does about Zimmerman? They're companies. "The news" exists to sell advertising space.

I'm not trying to dress up conservative media as some bastion of hope for either of the involved parties either.

[Atlanteax]

George Zimmerman In Custody, Charged With Second-Degree Murder In Trayvon Martin Case (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-charged-second-degree-murder_n_1417198.html)

They plan to show malice and disprove self defense. My guess is they have been sitting on some evidence that has not leaked. Everything he did was lawful up to his shooting and killing Trayvon with malicious intent.

Considering all the leaks over the past month... even Zimmerman may have been better off if the Sanford police done things correctly. They've really fucked it all up and continued to fuck it all up even after the fact.

I'm guessing Zimmerman gets off due to hung jury or mistrial. Its clear that he knows the consequences of his actions and his culpability in it. It is true his life is forever altered over this. I think all anyone really wanted was justice to be properly served as we see it done as best we can every day in this country.

Personally I am relieved to see the system, for all its faults and flaws, followed through for both citizens. Whatever happened with the Sanford police department to let it get to this is really what needs to be fixed.

I'm guessing that Zimmerman either has the charges dropped against him ("malice" seems like a stretch considering it was self-defense) or is found not-guilty (unless it is like an all-black jury that sees it as a racial injustice).

The fact that the special prosecutor is even charging him with "malice" only affirms the earlier postulation that it will be a political decision to do so, in order to take the air out of the media-driven frenzy.

[Atlanteax]

He turned himself in and will plead not guilty. Good on him. Were it me (thank god it isn't) I'd more likely be in Mexico learning Spanish by now.

Considering Zimmerman is Hispanic... Back is clearly guilty of hypocrisy regarding "RACIST!!"

[Back]

I'm guessing that Zimmerman either has the charges dropped against him ("malice" seems like a stretch considering it was self-defense) or is found not-guilty (unless it is like an all-black jury that sees it as a racial injustice).

The fact that the special prosecutor is even charging him with "malice" only affirms the earlier postulation that it will be a political decision to do so, in order to take the air out of the media-driven frenzy.

Wow. This is all kinds of crazy.

Hope you have plenty of food and ammo stored away for when the media unleashes the televised race war so Obama the sleeper Muslim terrorist can declare himself King and enslave the white man.

[Oscar76]

You mean I don't need Food Insurance and Glenn Beck on tape?

:wtf:

[Atlanteax]

:love:

I like these talks buddy, right now out of all the retards I think you're the least offensive.

It goes:

1. Tgo01 (least retarded, super shitty handle though)
2. PB
3. Atlanteax
4. Jarvan (like runaway winner for most retarded)

I just wanted to keep you guys updated.

and here I cannot decide between you, Back, or Tsa'ah.

Warriorbird is just excellent at Trolling.

[Warriorbird]

You mean I don't need Food Insurance and Glenn Beck on tape?

:wtf:

The real message here is buy gold. You'll want to buy gold after hearing how everything is doomed and it is the only solution.

[Oscar76]

The real message here is buy gold. You'll want to buy gold after hearing how everything is doomed and it is the only solution.

Shit. I was stocking up on baseball cards.

[Ashlander]

Shit. I was stocking up on baseball cards.

If I learned anything from Fallout it's that I need to start saving bottle caps now.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

This is what I think is bullshit. The guy has not even had a jury selected yet and the media labels it like this.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/bignews/classic_blog/topics/2649798/image_1332176415.jpeg

[Ryvicke]

OMG

http://now.msn.com/money/0412-zimmerman-trayvon-trademark.aspx


There's been plenty of public support for Trayvon Martin since he was shot and killed on Feb. 26, but George Zimmerman, the neighborhood-watch captain who was arrested and charged with murder Wednesday, hasn't received quite as much love from the masses. San Fran businessman Lawrence Sekara wants to change that and make a few bucks along the way. The Smoking Gun reports that Sekara has applied for the trademark for the phrase "I Believe You Zimmerman," which he wants to stick on beer mugs, bumper stickers, leggings, footwear, Hawaiian shirts and other apparel. We're not sure how well these products will do, but we're guessing Sekara's clothing line isn't likely to include a hoodie.

THIS MAN IS PROFITEERING OFF OF MURDER AND TAKING ADVANTAGE OMG I WILL NOW ACT LIKE THIS IS THE REAL STORY AND NOTHING ELSE AND LOOK HOW MSN.COM REPORTED THIS THOSE LIBERAL FUCKS AND JESSE JACKSON RAPED A WHITE WOMAN IN 1987 I HAVE PROOF GO TO MY SITE AND THEN

[Back]

This is what I think is bullshit.


So what are they supposed to do? Use a bad photo? No photo? Can you imagine if everyone used the worst photos of people? Or news with no photos or footage because it might bias the story in some way?

Do you disagree that it was a tragedy? Is there a better word to use in your view?

I see nothing wrong with it. Now, if the banner was a picture of Zimmerman with a noose around his neck declaring HANG THE MOTHER FUCKER! I would have an issue with it.

[Latrinsorm]

:love:

I like these talks buddy, right now out of all the retards I think you're the least offensive.

It goes:

1. Tgo01 (least retarded, super shitty handle though)
2. PB
3. Atlanteax
4. Jarvan (like runaway winner for most retarded)

I just wanted to keep you guys updated.I always figured it was his initials and class year. Why do you hate college, classist???
The murder charge indicates prosecutors plan to prove Zimmerman shot Martin with malice, though without premeditation. A manslaughter charge would have required prosecutors to prove only that Zimmerman acted unlawfully and with criminal negligence in shooting the teen.

"The difference between murder and manslaughter is your mental state," said Mark Geragos, a Los Angeles defense attorney, who is not connected to the case. "To elevate it to murder, you have to have the element of malice."

In Florida, a grand jury must be convened before issuing first-degree murder charges. On Monday, Corey announced that she would not convene a grand jury, which had been scheduled for Tuesday, in the Martin case.I'm really surprised they're not just going for manslaughter. Do they have the thing where the jury can convict on a lesser charge or is it all or nothing? Here's a conspiracy for everyone: the prosecutors are in on it too, so they're charging him with something they know they can't convict on. Huh? Huh? Not bad, right?
This is what I think is bullshit. The guy has not even had a jury selected yet and the media labels it like this.Regardless of Zimmerman's specific culpability, the situation is tragic.

[Atlanteax]

OMG

http://now.msn.com/money/0412-zimmerman-trayvon-trademark.aspx

THIS MAN IS PROFITEERING OFF OF MURDER AND TAKING ADVANTAGE OMG I WILL NOW ACT LIKE THIS IS THE REAL STORY AND NOTHING ELSE AND LOOK HOW MSN.COM REPORTED THIS THOSE LIBERAL FUCKS AND JESSE JACKSON RAPED A WHITE WOMAN IN 1987 I HAVE PROOF GO TO MY SITE AND THEN

You're clearly off your meds...

In the meantime, I chuckled @ the "but we're guessing Sekara's clothing line isn't likely to include a hoodie."

[Atlanteax]

Here's a conspiracy for everyone: the prosecutors are in on it too, so they're charging him with something they know they can't convict on. Huh? Huh? Not bad, right?

As I stated, it is a political decision...


Regardless of Zimmerman's specific culpability, the situation is tragic.

Why not call it the "Trayvon Marton / George Zimmerman Tragedy" with both of their pictures then?

[Ryvicke]

Fun fact: a perk of being dead and having no file photo available is that your family gets to provide a photo to news sources. Just another example of dead thugs gaming the system.


I always figured it was his initials and class year. Why do you hate college, classist???I'm really surprised they're not just going for manslaughter. Do they have the thing where the jury can convict on a lesser charge or is it all or nothing?

They can convict on a lesser charge.

[Latrinsorm]

As I stated, it is a political decision...



Why not call it the "Trayvon Marton / George Zimmerman Tragedy" with both of their pictures then?The person who dies gets all the love. You'd call it the OJ Simpson trial, but you wouldn't call it the OJ Simpson tragedy. Right?

[Ryvicke]

I always figured it was his initials and class year. Why do you hate college, classist???

Everyone knows college is just a place where they teach you to be an atheist. It's not REAL MERICA.

If Tgo01 isn't his initials and the year he graduated from vocational school for work he does with his hands--MAN WORK--then I won't believe he's a true conservative or racist.

[Atlanteax]

The person who dies gets all the love. You'd call it the OJ Simpson trial, but you wouldn't call it the OJ Simpson tragedy. Right?

Everyone knew OJ was guilty, hence it was called "the OJ Simpson trial"

[Atlanteax]

Just another example of dead thugs gaming the system.

Glad to see that you are (finally) coming around!

[Ryvicke]

Glad to see that you are (finally) coming around!

No shit dude, when will the white man finally have enough clout to overcome the obvious bias in our society for dead black thugs??

Fucking Tupac.

[Methais]

OMG

http://now.msn.com/money/0412-zimmerman-trayvon-trademark.aspx



THIS MAN IS PROFITEERING OFF OF MURDER AND TAKING ADVANTAGE OMG I WILL NOW ACT LIKE THIS IS THE REAL STORY AND NOTHING ELSE AND LOOK HOW MSN.COM REPORTED THIS THOSE LIBERAL FUCKS AND JESSE JACKSON RAPED A WHITE WOMAN IN 1987 I HAVE PROOF GO TO MY SITE AND THEN

That's still not as bad as Trayvon's mom rushing out to trademark his name. Since you know, she's his mom and all and not just some random person.



So what are they supposed to do? Use a bad photo? No photo? Can you imagine if everyone used the worst photos of people? Or news with no photos or footage because it might bias the story in some way?

I agree. Who would stoop to such a shitty level?
http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//af/a6/afa663287db6b8fed0a22d729d18d301.jpg

[TheEschaton]

Back, prosecutors often charge higher offenses that can survive being outright dismissed (IE, it's not first degree because in most jurisdiction first degree requires the victim to be a peace officer), because most jury instructions allow for the jury to convict on a "lesser included charge" like manslaughter (voluntary or involuntary).

Plus, if it survives the motion to dismiss, it puts pressure on the defendant to possibly plea to a lesser charge in order to not risk going to trial and being convicted of a 15 year felony. All in all - pretty standard prosecution tactics.

In addition, with the media scrutiny this case has, a higher charge placates the furor even if the prosecution thinks it less than likely it'll get a conviction. Even NPR this morning was saying it seemed like 2nd degree is (so far) unsubstantiated - this serves to calm down what could otherwise turn a trial into a feeding frenzy.

Also, let me be clear before Methais foams at the mouth (he only ever pops up when it's cases involving black people): even without the media scrutiny, it would be fairly common for this case to be charged higher than what the prosecutor thinks is obtainable.

-TheE-

[Methais]

Also, let me be clear before Methais foams at the mouth (he only ever pops up when it's cases involving black people): even without the media scrutiny, it would be fairly common for this case to be charged higher than what the prosecutor thinks is obtainable.

-TheE-

That's not true. I pop up when hispanics are involved too. Even the white ones.

[Parkbandit]

That's still not as bad as Trayvon's mom rushing out to trademark his name. Since you know, she's his mom and all and not just some random person.


The mother is being dragged around. On the Today Show this morning, she said the shooting was "probably an accident" and that George found himself in a situation where he couldn't turn back the clock.

A few hours later, "she" issued a retraction, saying that George hunted down Trayvon and murdered him in cold blood.

I feel absolutely terrible for the mother.

[Atlanteax]

The mother is being dragged around. On the Today Show this morning, she said the shooting was "probably an accident" and that George found himself in a situation where he couldn't turn back the clock.

A few hours later, "she" issued a retraction, saying that George hunted down Trayvon and murdered him in cold blood.

I feel absolutely terrible for the mother.

Apparently the trademarking was not the mother's idea?

Oh, the mother probably knew her son was a thug (TM ~ Ryvicke).

[Parkbandit]

Apparently the trademarking was not the mother's idea?

Oh, the mother probably knew her son was a thug (TM ~ Ryvicke).

It was done on her behalf by the law firm representing her. I doubt it was her idea.

[Ryvicke]

Eh, I heard about the trademarking in relation to the family also making an announcement that there were several sites online soliciting funds for their legal team that had nothing to do with them in any way. Kind of a fraud prevention thing.

BUT NO IT IS ACTUALLY THUG FAMILY OPPORTUNISM. TRUE THUG$$$$$ BE PROFITING FROM THEY OWN DEATH.

[Atlanteax]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120412053735-zimmerman-court-story-top.jpg

I would not characterize Zimmerman as "White" but instead as "Mexican" from his appearance here.

[Ryvicke]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120412053735-zimmerman-court-story-top.jpg

I would not characterize Zimmerman as "White" but instead as "Mexican" from his appearance here.

Yeah the booking photo last night and this afternoon's look weird.

DIFFERENT GUY??? I'M GOING TO GO MAKE A WEBSITE ABOUT IT.

[Methais]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120412053735-zimmerman-court-story-top.jpg

I would not characterize Zimmerman as "White" but instead as "Mexican" from his appearance here.

NO HE'S WHITE CAUSE THE MEDIA SAID SO!!!!!!!!!!1

[Androidpk]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120412053735-zimmerman-court-story-top.jpg

I would not characterize Zimmerman as "White" but instead as "Mexican" from his appearance here.

Racial profiling alert!!!111

[TheEschaton]

Dude is definitely not 250 or even 220, and unless he's dropped like, 40 pounds minimum in the past month, he wasn't 220 then either.

[Ryvicke]

Dude is definitely not 250 or even 220, and unless he's dropped like, 40 pounds minimum in the past month, he wasn't 220 then either.

BUT I BET YOU THOUGHT HE WAS 250 WITHOUT ANY DOUBT CAUSE THE MEDIA SAID IT ONCE AND YOU'RE SO FUCKING STUPID YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ.

[Methais]

I heard he used to train with Zangief.


BUT I BET YOU THOUGHT HE WAS 250 WITHOUT ANY DOUBT CAUSE THE MEDIA SAID IT ONCE AND YOU'RE SO FUCKING STUPID YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ.

Are you saying people like that don't exist in large numbers or something?

[Atlanteax]

BUT I BET YOU THOUGHT HE WAS 250 WITHOUT ANY DOUBT CAUSE THE MEDIA SAID IT ONCE AND YOU'RE SO FUCKING STUPID YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ.

Like you believing the (early) media reports of Zimmerman chasing down Trayvon to shoot and kill with his gun?

[Back]

Like you believing the (early) media reports of Zimmerman chasing down Trayvon to shoot and kill with his gun?

What are you talking about? I never read any report like that. You should be able to find one and link it here to prove how biased the media has been about this.

[Ryvicke]

Like you believing the (early) media reports of Zimmerman chasing down Trayvon to shoot and kill with his gun?

The media changed its position on that? I only read my Black Panthers daily email blast so I didn't know anyone thought differently. It's rude of me not to post links to it here when you guys are nice enough to link me to all those helpful sites that let me know about Trayvon's marijuana and ecstacy dealing on the night he was chased down and murdered.

[Methais]

The media changed its position on that? I only read my Black Panthers daily email blast so I didn't know anyone thought differently. It's rude of me not to post links to it here when you guys are nice enough to link me to all those helpful sites that let me know about Trayvon's marijuana and ecstacy dealing on the night he was chased down and murdered.

http://leahmorrigan.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/blackpower-blackunity-blackpanthers.jpg

[Ryvicke]

What are you talking about? I never read any report like that. You should be able to find one and link it here to prove how biased the media has been about this.

I think what he meant is that the media he likes told him that's what the rest of the media was saying.

[Atlanteax]

What are you talking about? I never read any report like that. You should be able to find one and link it here to prove how biased the media has been about this.

Hard to find older articles now (since undoubtedly many has been updated over time), but here is one from 2.5 weeks ago:

http://voices.kansascity.com/entries/trayvon-martin-murder-not-only-outrage/

[Ryvicke]

Hard to find older articles now (since undoubtedly many has been updated over time), but here is one from 2.5 weeks ago:

http://voices.kansascity.com/entries/trayvon-martin-murder-not-only-outrage/

lol, that was the best you can do??

What you just linked to is an opinion piece written by an online blogger for the Kansas City Star that doesn't even say anything about Trayvon being "chased and gunned down" that you were supposed to find.

But seriously--how many times does it take to get you old white retarded fucks to understand the difference between a news story and op-ed writing. Please fucking god tell me any of this is getting through to you?

You literally seem to be unable to tell the difference between news and op-ed or grasp the guidelines that both adhere to. But one more fucking time: THAT LADY is giving you her opinion, she is writing bullshit on the internet that anyone can write. You have failed once again, to understand the simplest fucking concept in news.

Full text of what Atlanteax linked:


The outrage over the murder of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida is warranted. He was a kid walking home from the store, shot by a neighborhood watch captain, and Florida’s gun laws may prevent charges from being filed.

But the murder of a black teenager by a white man should not distract from the continuing outrage that goes on in Kansas City and elsewhere. That is the wanton slaying of young black people, usually as a result of black-on-black homicide.

Jalisa Reed, a vibrant 16-year-old from Kansas City, Kan., was murdered this month while visiting an aunt in southeast Kansas City. Someone in a car fired shots toward a group of young people. No arrests have been made.

Rickey King, 17, a Boy Scout and ROTC cadet who wanted to join the Navy after his graduation from Southeast High School, was killed when someone opened fire with an assault rifle as they were riding in a car on Kansas City’s east side. His murder is unsolved.

Samir Clark, 19, a college student home on break, was murdered in his cousin’s apartment when somebody involved in an argument in the hallway outside shot through the door. A 29-year-old man, Marcus D. Smith, is charged in the death. Witnesses said he yelled that he was going to “shoot the place up.”

Nelson Hopkins Jr., 17, was murdered in December 2009 on Kansas City’s east side while walking home from a library. His killer remains at large.

This is just a partial list of good kids murdered in Kansas City for no reason than they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Their deaths are an outrage, and so is the fact that we have become numb to it.

[Warriorbird]

The opinion piece on a community forum related to a paper doesn't even say what you think it does.

Ryvicke, they're just used to accepting conservative opinion as fact.

[Ryvicke]

The opinion piece on a community forum related to a paper doesn't even say what you think it does.

Ryvicke, they're just used to accepting conservative opinion as fact.

I guess it is tough when your entire media infrastructure relies on outsized personalities giving you opinions so that you'll buy their GOLDLINE GOLD to figure out that that's not actually how the rest of the world works.

It is really blowing my mind that people can get that old and not understand basic concepts of journalism. It's fucking scary.

[Jarvan]

Well.. look at Latrine. He took the whole "white guy" and ran with lit, listing why he had to be white, how hispanic isn't a race, how white was right to use, how there are no other ethnicities in the US cause the Government decided so.

I know ~I~ would certainly refer to a man looking like that as White, regardless what he calls himself.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120412053735-zimmerman-court-story-top.jpg

I would not characterize Zimmerman as "White" but instead as "Mexican" from his appearance here.

You see how fucking red the guy on his left is? And is the guy on his right black? And is the thing behind the black? guy a woman?!

This photo has me confused!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

But seriously--how many times does it take to get you old white retarded fucks to understand the difference between a news story and op-ed writing.


Ryvicke, they're just used to accepting conservative opinion as fact.


It is really blowing my mind that people can get that old and not understand basic concepts of journalism.

Your bigotry is showing.

[Warriorbird]

Your bigotry is showing.

Being puzzled about how people can't tell the difference between opinion and the rest of a newspaper by the time they're adults is bigotry?

Maybe if he said satire.

http://hij.sagepub.com/content/14/2/212.abstract

You guys can't help not understanding satire.

[Back]

Hard to find older articles now (since undoubtedly many has been updated over time), but here is one from 2.5 weeks ago:

http://voices.kansascity.com/entries/trayvon-martin-murder-not-only-outrage/

There is no way in hell mainstream news agencies could go back and change their reporting and remain legitimate.

So this means either you are wrong or you are wrong again.

Seriously dude get in touch with reality. Get away from those sites that are misleading you into a bizarre alternate reality that only exists inside a feverishly paranoid mind. The people poisoning your mind with that bullshit are the real enemy not some crazy leftist liberal media conspiracy.

[Ryvicke]

Being puzzled about how people can't tell the difference between opinion and the rest of a newspaper by the time they're adults is bigotry?

Maybe if he said satire.

http://hij.sagepub.com/content/14/2/212.abstract

You guys can't help not understanding satire.

My favorite, without a doubt, is when all those people on Facebook (OH YEAH and a Republican congressmen (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/02/congressman-falls-months-old-onion-story-about-planned-parenthood-abortionplex/48344/)) went apeshit about the Onion's "abortionplex" story.

Have to add the quote, so hilarious:


What's doubly sad about this posting (obviously deleted now) is that The Onion article shared, "Planned Parenthood Opens $8 Billion Abortionplex," is from May 2011 and is something of a viral classic, even inspiring some users of Yelp to "review" the facility described. So not only did Rep. Fleming (who calls abortion a "pernicious evil") or at least one of his staffers believe Kansas now has an abortion clinic with "coffee shops, bars, dozens of restaurants and retail outlets, a three-story nightclub, and a 10-screen multiplex theater," but it's not even recent fake news. (Though it's a fake news item that's gotten other people who weren't U.S. representatives.)

Hudson Hongo, the freelance writer who runs Literally Unbelievable, explained what happened by email. "The Onion reran their Abortionplex article in response to the Komen Foundation controversy and it has found a second life among misled abortion opponents," he writes. Rep. Fleming shouldn't feel too bad, though: The Abortionplex does have legs. As Literally's Hongo says, "I would completely agree about this being LitUnbelievable's greatest post."

I would totally get a 'borsh if there was a 10-screen theater and a coffee shop involved.

[Latrinsorm]

Well.. look at Latrine. He took the whole "white guy" and ran with lit, listing why he had to be white, how hispanic isn't a race, how white was right to use, how there are no other ethnicities in the US cause the Government decided so.

I know ~I~ would certainly refer to a man looking like that as White, regardless what he calls himself.If you're going to keep harping on this, I'll give explaining it to you one more try. I didn't say that the government was right; I even went so far as to say that all such systems are at some level arbitrary. All I said was that a system exists under which it is internally consistent to refer to Zimmerman as "white Hispanic", therefore it is possible that the source of the term in this case is much more benign than your proposed conspiracy.

For some reason, you have completely and repeatedly misinterpreted this, in the same way you repeatedly misinterpreted "manslaughter" as "cold blooded murder". It's called a straw man argument. I don't understand the appeal of it, and I really don't understand how you aren't bored with it by now. Surely you are intelligent enough to realize what you're doing.

[Atlanteax]

lol, that was the best you can do??

What you just linked to is an opinion piece written by an online blogger for the Kansas City Star that doesn't even say anything about Trayvon being "chased and gunned down" that you were supposed to find.

But seriously--how many times does it take to get you old white retarded fucks to understand the difference between a news story and op-ed writing. Please fucking god tell me any of this is getting through to you?

You literally seem to be unable to tell the difference between news and op-ed or grasp the guidelines that both adhere to. But one more fucking time: THAT LADY is giving you her opinion, she is writing bullshit on the internet that anyone can write. You have failed once again, to understand the simplest fucking concept in news.

Full text of what Atlanteax linked:

Of course it is an opinion piece vs a bonafide news article.

The point is that opinion pieces are still MEDIA.

This is what your retarded selves cannot grasp.

Btw, guess what ... this link you shared earlier about Obama? (post #1115) http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/opinion/brooks-that-other-obama.html?_r=1&scp=7&sq=obama&st=cse
It's an Opinion piece!! But you apparently considered it to be a legit article??

What's wrong with you?

[Ryvicke]

Of course it is an opinion piece vs a bonafide news article.

The point is that opinion pieces are still MEDIA.

This is what your retarded selves cannot grasp.

Btw, guess what ... this link you shared earlier about Obama? (post #1115) http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/opinion/brooks-that-other-obama.html?_r=1&scp=7&sq=obama&st=cse
It's an Opinion piece!! But you apparently considered it to be a legit article??

What's wrong with you?

Dude, I'm dying laughing over here. All three of those links were conservative opinion pieces, obviously. Although journalism and the reporting of facts can be detrimental to one party or the other, it is presented as news, with relevant ideas and, from a good source, will give you reactions and quotes from both sides, but never push a side at you.

I posted those opinion pieces to discuss how the New York Times gives conservative writers a forum to discuss their ideas.



Here's a quick test for you: Link 1 (below) is a news story about Gov. Christie and his decision to cancel the ARC project in NJ. There are two sides to this story, as a non-partisan government report has just released findings that seem in opposition to what Gov. Christie told the public about why he had to cancel the project. How long does it take the Times to introduce Christie's point of view on the panel's release and give his side a place to talk as part of the article as well? How much of the article is devoted to these three things: a. background information, b. the report's conclusions and c. Christie's response.

Link 1:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/nyregion/report-disputes-christies-reason-for-halting-tunnel-project-in-2010.html

Now here is link 2: one day later the New York times publishes a follow up article detailing (in its own entire article!) Christie's response to the report and reiterating Christie's argument--but notice that the Times also reintroduces the other side of the argument. Again, let's take a look at how much of the article is devoted to: a. background information, b. the report's conclusions and c. Christie's response.

Link 2:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/11/nyregion/christie-stands-by-his-decision-to-cancel-trans-hudson-tunnel.html

Finally, here is link 3, it's an opinion piece on the Christie's decision to cancel the tunnel and the recently released report. You could say that this editorial actually gives the least amount of information of all three, but has what is easily the most entertaining and strongest voice. Again, pay attention to how much is given to: a. background information, b. the report's conclusions and c. Christie's response.

This is the garbage you're filling your head with: you are a link 3 consumer, without ever getting around to reading links 1 or 2, which are much more crucial than link 3. Get it yet?

Link 3:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/opinion/gov-chris-christie-and-the-tunnel-project.html

[Atlanteax]

All three links are opinion pieces ... with news / a story ... to tell.

Some being more 'factual' of course.

Further, all 3 are MEDIA items attempting to influence/define perspective on behalf of the reader.

Try not to blind yourself to the later.

[Warriorbird]

Aw snap. Ryvicke! I just heard opinion had a bias!

[Ryvicke]

All three links are opinion pieces ... with news / a story ... to tell.

Some being more 'factual' of course.

Further, all 3 are MEDIA items attempting to influence/define perspective on behalf of the reader.

Try not to blind yourself to the later.

I was hoping you'd be a retard. J-school time!

Unabridge paste of Article 1:


Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey exaggerated when he declared that unforeseen costs to the state were forcing him to cancel the new train tunnel planned to relieve congested routes across the Hudson River, according to a long-awaited report by independent Congressional investigators.

The report by the Government Accountability Office, to be released this week, found that while Mr. Christie said that state transportation officials had revised cost estimates for the tunnel to at least $11 billion and potentially more than $14 billion, the range of estimates had in fact remained unchanged in the two years before he announced in 2010 that he was shutting down the project. And state transportation officials, the report says, had said the cost would be no more than $10 billion.

Mr. Christie also misstated New Jersey’s share of the costs: he said the state would pay 70 percent of the project; the report found that New Jersey was paying 14.4 percent. And while the governor said that an agreement with the federal government would require the state to pay all cost overruns, the report found that there was no final agreement, and that the federal government had made several offers to share those costs.

Canceling the tunnel, then the largest public works project in the nation, helped shape Mr. Christie’s profile as a rising Republican star, an enforcer of fiscal discipline in a country drunk on debt. But the report is likely to revive criticism that his decision, which he said was about “hard choices” in tough economic times, was more about avoiding the need to raise the state’s gasoline tax, which would have violated a campaign promise. The governor subsequently steered $4 billion earmarked for the tunnel to the state’s near-bankrupt transportation trust fund, traditionally financed by the gasoline tax.

Here's the first four graphs of Article 1--introducing the report's findings. This article is actually structured almost exactly like they taught us to in J-school. Introduce the news you're writing about (in this case the release of the report), but introduce the competing idea before "the fold" (in old terms--if you think of how the front page of a newspaper worked, you wanted to get the other side of the story showing before a reader had to unfold the paper). 4 paragraphs to the first side is actually a pretty good measurement of "before the fold."


On Tuesday, in a speech at a conference on taxes and the economy in Manhattan, Mr. Christie did not mention the report, but defended his decision to cancel the project, saying, “I refuse to compromise my principles.”

He also derided the tunnel plan, although he had said even as he canceled it that he believed in its merits. While the tunnel would have expanded the number of subway lines available to commuters at Pennsylvania Station in New York, Mr. Christie characterized it Tuesday as a dead-end to a department store.

“When they want to build a tunnel to the basement of Macy’s, and stick the New Jersey taxpayers with a bill of 3 to 5 billion over, no matter how much the administration yells and screams you have to say no,” he said at the conference hosted by the George W. Bush Institute, before an audience that included Mr. Bush, Karl Rove, and prominent Republicans and business executives. “You have to look them right in the eye, no matter how much they try to vilify you for it, and you have to say no. You have to be willing to say no to those things that compromise your principles.”

Mr. Christie’s estimates of several billion dollars in cost overruns refers to an $8.7 billion estimate that was used for a grant agreement between the federal government and the state to get the project started in early 2009, and was often referred to in news accounts as the price tag on the project. But the federal report noted that federal and state officials, including those in Mr. Christie’s administration, had long been preparing for the possibility that costs might range from $9.5 billion to $12.4 billion. Mr. Christie’s administration, however, argued that the upper estimates were excessively cautious.

A spokesman for the governor, Michael Drewniak, said Mr. Christie’s statement of costs had included $775 million to build a new portal bridge, which was required as part of the project. The 70 percent state share, he said, included the costs that would have been paid for by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is run by both states, as well as federal highway and stimulus funds earmarked for New Jersey. Counting those costs, which the report does not do, would put the state’s share at 65.5 percent.

As for the state’s share of the overruns, Mr. Drewniak said the federal government “offered no significant increase in outright funding that would significantly mitigate the costs to New Jersey.”

“The bottom line is that the G.A.O. report simply bears out what we said in the fall of 2010 and say to this day: the ARC project was a very, very bad deal for New Jersey,” he added, using the acronym for the project, known as Access to the Region’s Core.

Now here was Christie and his rep refuting the findings. The part I bolded was really interesting to me--because actually when Christie added in the portal bridge, his estimate of 70% was almost correct, as you can see, the number was 65.5%, but in this case Christie seems like he's done his homework and it absolutely can't be said that Christie was lying.

I really like that the New York Times isn't some fucking rag that would somehow try to distort that, they stuck Christie's side in pretty quick, and when I read this earlier this week I was happy to see that I got both sides.


Martin E. Robins, the founding director of the Alan M. Voorhees Transportation Center at Rutgers University and an early director of the ARC project, criticized the governor. “In hindsight, it’s apparent that he had a highly important political objective: to cannibalize the project so he could find an alternate way of keeping the transportation trust fund program moving, and he went ahead and did it,” he said.

Shutting down the tunnel project extinguished the best hope to relieve the increasing congestion not only between New Jersey and Manhattan, but also along the popular high-speed route between Boston and Washington. Now, Amtrak and New Jersey trains share two 100-year-old single-track tunnels under the Hudson. As the report notes, those tracks now operate at capacity, and demand for mass transit between New Jersey and Manhattan is expected to grow 38 percent by 2030.

One 15-minute disruption, the report said, ripples out to affect 15 other Amtrak and New Jersey trains. Last month, problems on the two tracks on two consecutive days sent delays rippling out along the Northeast.

Now here's some third party info--the main thing to understand here is that a news article is structured to bring to you the pertinent information first and then fill in background/secondary issues the further you go down--not everyone can read every article in a newspaper, so you want to get people as much as possible as you can at the start. That's why the stuff from here on out gets a little dry, but it's good to read!


The governor said when he canceled the project that he hoped New York City or federal officials would find another solution But last week, the chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said one of those, a proposed extension of the No. 7 subway line to New Jersey, was not going to happen “in anybody’s lifetime.” Congress gave Amtrak $15 million to study a tunnel that would expand capacity by about half as much as the ARC project, but the money to build the tunnel is uncertain.

The Government Accountability Office, the nonpartisan investigative arm of Congress, did the report at the request of Senator Frank R. Lautenberg of New Jersey, a Democrat who is the chairman of the Senate subcommittee on surface transportation, an ardent supporter of public transportation and a critic of Mr. Christie. Investigators spent a year examining official planning studies and estimates for the project and interviewing people associated with it.

Mr. Christie supported the tunnel in his campaign in 2009 and in letters to the federal Transportation Department as late as April 2010, four months after he took office. When he canceled it, he said that he supported the merits of the project, but that the state could not afford it, and that he would not put New Jersey taxpayers on “a never-ending hook” to pay for it.

In announcing his decision, Mr. Christie said he was relying on the advice of his ARC steering committee, led by New Jersey Transit officials, which he said had revised estimates and found that the tunnel would “cost no less than $11 billion and could exceed $14 billion.”

Here's an important part of the background as well--in addition to the Rutger's guy above, it's introduced that Christie was relying on the advice of an entire steering committee led by NJ DOT. So what we're getting here is more background on the deal (this was good for me, cause I hadn't read a lot about the ARC project back in 2009) and some more third party quotation about it.

NOTICE: the journalist's voice is absent from this story and the next one we'll read


The report, however, found that the estimates had not changed since August 2008, 17 months before Mr. Christie took office. New Jersey Transit and federal officials had agreed on a baseline cost of $8.7 billion, which was the figure cited in news reports, but they had also agreed, first in 2008 and then a month before Mr. Christie canceled the project, that costs would range from $9.5 billion to $12.4 billion. When federal officials argued, six weeks before Mr. Christie canceled the project, that it might cost $13.7 billion, the report said, state officials replied that they “did not see costs rising to this level” and said the project would cost, at most, $10 billion.

Federal officials, in response, backed off that higher estimate. But Mr. Drewniak, the spokesman for Mr. Christie, said Monday that the fluctuating estimates suggested that no one really knew how much the project would cost.

“The governor was prudent to cancel the project, given the vast disagreement between professionals,” he said.

Mr. Christie further explained his decision by saying that the financing agreement with the federal government required him to declare that New Jersey would pay any costs above the $8.7 billion. That is the standard procedure for full-financing agreements, but the report found that there was no agreement when Mr. Christie canceled the project, and that the federal government, which was already paying 51 percent of the costs, had offered to help with any cost overruns, pledging additional money, low-interest railroad loans and public-private financing.

Before Mr. Christie declared the tunnel dead, his transportation advisers told state legislators that they had discussed taking money from the project to fill the transportation trust fund, which was almost empty.

Since then, the governor has steered $4 billion in tunnel money to the trust fund, avoiding an increase in the state’s gasoline tax, the second lowest in the nation.

Mr. Drewniak criticized Mr. Lautenberg for the report, saying that he should have arranged more federal money for the project. “He needs to stop blaming others for his failure in leadership,” he said.

Interesting that the article gave Christie's rep the last word! Okay that one was long, the next two are way shorter:

Unabridged Article 2:


Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey defended on Tuesday his decision to cancel a train tunnel long planned to relieve increasing congestion across the Hudson River, saying it was a matter of principle.

Responding to a report by the Government Accountability Office that found he had overstated the cost of the tunnel to New Jersey, the governor also derided the tunnel plan, though he had said when he canceled the project in October 2010 that he believed in its merits. While the tunnel would have expanded the number of subway lines available to those who commute to Pennsylvania Station in New York City, he characterized it on Tuesday as a dead-end to a department store.

“So when they want to build a tunnel to the basement of Macy’s, and stick the New Jersey taxpayers with a bill of three-to-five billion dollars over — no matter how much the administration yells and screams, you have to say no,” he said in a speech at a conference on taxes and the economy in Manhattan held by the George W. Bush Institute.

“You have to look them right in the eye, no matter how much they try to vilify you for it, and you have to say no,” the governor told an audience that included Mr. Bush, Karl Rove and other prominent Republicans and business executives. “You have to be willing to say no to those things that compromise your principles.”

Pretty standard 4 graphs on Christie's statements with quotes from Christie to open the article.


The tunnel would have doubled capacity for commuters on New Jersey Transit and Amtrak trains, which now share two 100-year-old single track tunnels to cross the Hudson. The tracks are at capacity, and commuter demand is expected to rise 38 percent by 2030.

While the governor forcefully defended on Tuesday his decision to scrap the tunnel plan, he did not directly mention the report or address its specifics.

Mr. Christie said in 2010 that his steering committee for the project, known as ARC for Access to the Region’s Core, had told him that the tunnel would cost at least $11 billion and potentially more than $14 billion. But the report by the Government Accountability Office, an independent, nonpartisan Congressional investigative agency, found that New Jersey and federal officials had agreed that the costs would be from $9.5 billion to $12.4 billion. New Jersey Transit officials, who led the governor’s steering committee, said the tunnel would cost no more than $10 billion, the report found.

Mr. Christie also said in 2010 that the state would pay 70 percent of the cost; the report said the state’s share was 14.4 percent. And he said the federal government was requiring the state to pay any cost overruns; the report said that there was no final agreement, and that the federal government had offered to help pay with grants, loans and public-private partnerships.

The report prompted criticism of Mr. Christie from several New Jersey Democrats. Assemblyman John S. Wisniewski, the chairman of the transportation committee and of the state’s Democratic Party, said the decision was “shortsighted and politically driven,” because the governor directed money from the tunnel to fill the state’s transportation trust fund, allowing him to keep a campaign promise not to raise the gasoline tax.

“This was a tunnel that benefited New Jersey, for which New Jersey had a small share of the cost, in which we had the ability to negotiate cost overruns,” he said. “The governor seized upon incorrect facts and followed the old saw that says if you repeat something often enough, it becomes the truth.”

So that was about 2 graphs of background and then a full introduction (and retread from yesterday's article) with the report's argument on the issue.


In defending the decision, the governor and his office this week cited an initial cost of $8.7 billion for the tunnel. That was the figure that state and federal officials agreed upon in 2009 as the basis of the first federal grant to the state. Mr. Christie has said that the costs were expected to rise $2 billion to $5 billion above that, and in an interview in January, Mr. Christie told “Meet the Press” on NBC that the tunnel would cost “an additional $8 billion.”

But federal and state officials had always known there was a range of costs.

Mr. Christie’s office said Tuesday that federal officials had “confirmed” that the tunnel would cost from $10.8 billion to $13.7 billion. But New Jersey officials had disputed that estimate a day after federal officials made it, according to the Government Accountability Office report, saying the tunnel would cost no more than $10 billion.

Christie's side one more time, and then a concluding graph on the two sides' most recent statements refuting/confirming their arguments.

Pretty standard news reporting here too--the journalist's voice is not present, quotes from the sources are the opinions that we get. This is called reporting.

And now!

Unabridged Link 3 (I don't call it an article, this is an op-ed from the NYT editorial section):


If you find yourself in a stopped train in a Hudson River tunnel, or in a vehicle on a choked highway, in coming years, at least you will know why. In his drive to become the darling of the cut-costs-at-all-costs Republican crowd, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey ignored real economic analysis and relied on exaggerated worst-case scenarios to kill the largest public transit project in the nation in 2010.

Here's a tipoff: if someone is addressing "you" in the first sentence, it's usually an opinion piece. The writer using words like "darling of the cut-costs-at-all-costs Republican crowd" is obviously not reporting. See the difference?


The project, two new rail passages under the Hudson River, would have vastly improved the region’s economy, the environment and the lives of millions of commuters. The federal government and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey were providing most of the $10 billion needed to build the tunnels. But Mr. Christie said they were going to cost a lot more than that and that New Jersey would be on “a never-ending hook.”

Background paragraph essentially squeezing a ton of nuanced data into one paragraph.


Now, a report from the Government Accountability Office makes it clear that the cost-cutting talk was political bluster. Mr. Christie estimated that the project could cost more than $14 billion, of which New Jersey would have had to pay 70 percent if you counted federal stimulus dollars and Port Authority money. The report said later federal estimates ranged from $9.8 billion to $12.4 billion and that the state’s real share was 14.4 percent. The benefits would have been huge. Today, traffic moves under the Hudson River through two 100-year-old tunnels that are nearly at capacity at peak travel times. With projections that transit demands in this area will increase 38 percent by 2030, the new tunnels would have allowed twice as many trains during rush hour, 48 per hour instead of 23.

Again, the writer is cherry-picking data only relevant to what they want you to know. This is the essence of editorial.


The report, which Mr. Christie continues to dispute, cited estimates that home values and tax revenues would have risen, and that the construction would have added $9 billion to the regional economy. But Mr. Christie wanted to use the tunnel money to avoid adding a few cents to the state’s gasoline tax, the nation’s second lowest. He was thinking about his career, not his constituents.

And we end with a paragraph obviously critical of Christie.

So I have to ask--what is your argument that the first two articles are ANYTHING like the third piece? Do you understand the difference between reporting and editorial yet?

[Atlanteax]

tldr;

[Warriorbird]

tldr;

Because in spite of graduating from one of the best schools in the country you're scared of intellectual challenge.

[Atlanteax]

Because in spite of graduating from one of the best schools in the country you're scared of intellectual challenge.

No, it is that you and Ryvicke cannot separate your own bias from what you read.

[Warriorbird]

No, it is that you and Ryvicke cannot separate your own bias from what you read.

This is what you're going with after you're scared of a critical analysis and don't understand the difference between opinion and reporting?

Hilarious.

[Ryvicke]

tldr;

It's tl;dr.

I just realized I'm talking to someone that doesn't know what a fucking semicolon is.

[Atlanteax]

*Way* off tangent, you two.

[TheEschaton]

The win in this thread just got kicked up a level.

[Atlanteax]

The win in this thread just got kicked up a level.

I agree, it has been rather entertaining indeed.

[TheEschaton]

Believe me, I'm on the side which thinks you're a stupid fucking moron.

[Atlanteax]

Believe me, I'm on the side which thinks you're a stupid fucking moron.

Your opinion means *so much* to me!

Btw, Ditto.

[Celephais]

Oh shit, is this thread unraveling into banality? I want in.

*Way* off tangent, you two.

Off topic, off tangent would be back on topic.

[Back]

NRA Official Criticizes Media Over Trayvon Martin Coverage (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/15/nra-trayvon-martin-media_n_1426637.html)



Until Saturday, LaPierre had declined to comment on the Martin case, citing a need to learn all the facts. During the NRA gathering, he called the news media "a national disgrace." LaPierre said violent crime is an everyday fact of life in every American city.

"But the media, they don't care," LaPierre said. "Everyday victims aren't celebrities. They don't draw ratings, don't draw sponsors. But sensational reporting from Florida does. In the aftermath of one of Florida's many daily tragedies, my phone has been ringing off the hook" with calls from reporters.

Some gun-control advocates have seized on the shooting to renew debate about guns. Officials with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence have pledged to use the case to fight proposed federal legislation that would force states with strict gun laws to recognize concealed weapons permits granted in other states that have fewer requirements.

"George Zimmerman is the NRA," the group's president, Dan Gross, said in a statement earlier this week. "And Florida's `Shoot First, Ask Questions Later' law and the paranoid mentality it promotes are products of the NRA's vision for America, where just about anybody can get and use a gun just about anywhere."


How about blaming the Sanford police department? They are really the people culpable for this one.

[Latrinsorm]

He's really taking the wrong tack here. Put the blame solely on Zimmerman as an irresponsible gun owner, thereby absolving responsible gun owners. Take the middle ground, advocate for more strenuous testing for concealed carry and more severe penalties for breaking those laws. This is what everyone wants anyways. The only thing gun control nuts can respond with is "outlaw guns completely", which is dumb, then you win.

Whining about the media just makes him look like a whiner.

[Nieninque]

Believe me, I'm on the side which thinks you're a stupid fucking moron.
]
Dont forget the ties, dude!

[Back]

He's really taking the wrong tack here. Put the blame solely on Zimmerman as an irresponsible gun owner, thereby absolving responsible gun owners. Take the middle ground, advocate for more strenuous testing for concealed carry and more severe penalties for breaking those laws. This is what everyone wants anyways. The only thing gun control nuts can respond with is "outlaw guns completely", which is dumb, then you win.

Whining about the media just makes him look like a whiner.

I was thinking the same thing. If Zimmerman had a license to carry a concealed weapon he must have gone through some training of some kind to get it. Hopefully. At least I think everyone, even gun enthusiasts, would agree thats how it should work.

Following that, if Zimmerman was properly trained, and used his training how did this occur? Either Zimmerman truly did fear for his life, was not trained properly, or ignored/circumvented his training.

One might think the NRA would advocate better training of law enforcement, citizens, and examination of the laws rather than point the finger at the media. Thats just silly and doesn't do anyone any good. Its finger pointing and not working to solve the problem.

[Parkbandit]

He's really taking the wrong tack here. Put the blame solely on Zimmerman as an irresponsible gun owner, thereby absolving responsible gun owners. Take the middle ground, advocate for more strenuous testing for concealed carry and more severe penalties for breaking those laws. This is what everyone wants anyways. The only thing gun control nuts can respond with is "outlaw guns completely", which is dumb, then you win.

Whining about the media just makes him look like a whiner.

Everyone wants more strenuous testing for concealed carry and more severe penalties for breaking those laws?

Everyone does... really?

[Ryvicke]

Everyone wants more strenuous testing for concealed carry and more severe penalties for breaking those laws?

Everyone does... really?

Just the police and every person with a brain that isn't fuckwired to repeat talking points like a child's pull-the-string monkey.

[Parkbandit]

Just the police and every person with a brain that isn't fuckwired to repeat talking points like a child's pull-the-string monkey.

So exactly why don't you believe in more strenuous testing for concealed weapons permit?

[Drew]

New pic of Zimmerman's head. Looks like any argument that he shot Trayvon in cold blood is now out the window.



http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

[Jarvan]

New pic of Zimmerman's head. Looks like any argument that he shot Trayvon in cold blood is now out the window.



http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

~Sarcasm~

Nope, He's white, the deceased is black, it was Murder.

[Celephais]

Whoa, are you telling me that people were making judgments without all the facts!?!

[Androidpk]

I'd have to agree with the NRA about the national mainstream media. They have become a complete travesty.

[Jarvan]

The mainstream media has been a travesty for years, as is most print newspapers along with most blogs. That includes both the so called left and right ones.

There are very few, if truly any, seemingly unbiased news agencies anymore. They have no reason to be, and it's not financially beneficial for them to be unbiased. Most of them are owned by huge corporations that have their fingers in alot more then just news.

If a Company owned a solar panel production company, and got a loan/grant/tax break from the Government, would their newspaper arm report something bad about them? Likely not as much as if they didn't own the company.

Also, politics have infested it so much it's disgusting. Everyone wants their person elected, so they skew their reporting to show the good side of that person, and the worse side of the other.

[Androidpk]

The mainstream media has been a travesty for years, as is most print newspapers along with most blogs. That includes both the so called left and right ones.

There are very few, if truly any, seemingly unbiased news agencies anymore. They have no reason to be, and it's not financially beneficial for them to be unbiased. Most of them are owned by huge corporations that have their fingers in alot more then just news.

If a Company owned a solar panel production company, and got a loan/grant/tax break from the Government, would their newspaper arm report something bad about them? Likely not as much as if they didn't own the company.

Also, politics have infested it so much it's disgusting. Everyone wants their person elected, so they skew their reporting to show the good side of that person, and the worse side of the other.

Highlighted that part for emphasis. At the end of the day it all comes down to the dollar, basically.

[Celephais]

I like that you quoted Martin's family attorney, as if his opinion is actually relevant information.

[Androidpk]

I'm hoping Jessica Recksiedler gets a tv show, she's pretty hot for an old judge.

[Atlanteax]

New pic of Zimmerman's head. Looks like any argument that he shot Trayvon in cold blood is now out the window.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

Wow, I hope Back does not go out and shoot anyone after he falls down from drinking too much.

.

In the meantime, why the fark has it taken SO long for this picture to surface in the media? *Why* ?!?

Far too much media bias (denied by WarriorBird and Ryvicke, of course) in painting Zimmerman guilty with innocent-as-possible pictures of Trayvon Martin, and guilty-as-possible pictures with George Zimmerman ... with this being the first time ever there is a *non*-oh-he-is-definitely-guilty picture of Zimmerman.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

New pic of Zimmerman's head. Looks like any argument that he shot Trayvon in cold blood is now out the window.



http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

Just my opinion, but for a headwound, that doesn't look that bad. Headwounds bleed alot, and that's not a lot.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm hoping Jessica Recksiedler gets a tv show, she's pretty hot for an old judge.

Yes she is hot, but how old is she?

[Ryvicke]

The mainstream media has been a travesty for years, as is most print newspapers along with most blogs. That includes both the so called left and right ones.

There are very few, if truly any, seemingly unbiased news agencies anymore. They have no reason to be, and it's not financially beneficial for them to be unbiased. Most of them are owned by huge corporations that have their fingers in alot more then just news.

If a Company owned a solar panel production company, and got a loan/grant/tax break from the Government, would their newspaper arm report something bad about them? Likely not as much as if they didn't own the company.

Also, politics have infested it so much it's disgusting. Everyone wants their person elected, so they skew their reporting to show the good side of that person, and the worse side of the other.

Sorry but no. Dependable media sources might not be the ones that are IN YOUR FACE, or on your teevee, but they exist and are the record of choice for a huge demographic.

I live in liberal-ass, rich, disgusting hipster-land. I also live in the journalism and media capital of the world--50% of the people I work with went to journalism school and I too studied it for four years. Do you think we're fucking around with trash when we throw links out to each other? We'd ostracize any dumbfuck who once called our attention to some piece of biased nonsense--seriously, that dude would know of his crimes and we would steal his shit out of the refrigerator and eat it in front of him.

The fact is this: good media companies will announce, in any story, a full disclosure of their bias. If the Times uses a quote or sources anything from the International Herald Tribune, for instance, they will alert you to the fact that the two papers are owned by the same parent company. Fuck, even though AOL got dislocated from Time Warner before AOL bought the Huffington Post, HP will still mention it in shit they write about Time Warner as a conflict of interest (not saying the HP is a bastion of incredible journalism, but it does point out its conflicts).

Good newspapers declare their potential conflicts of interest IN every news story they write that deals with an entity that it could potentially seen as being biased towards/against. Good newspaper publish corrections, if needed, that are both emphasized on the story page and held in an area where you can find them all together. Good newspaper separate, completely, their news staff from their editorial staff, from the highest to the lowest level, and never the two should meet.

And if these are still not enough there is a very vibrant and massive section of the internet, usually connected to high-quality journalism departments at universities, that write feverishly a massive quantity of words daily about the good media--mostly about when they fail or could've done better.

Stop watching TV, stop reading editorial or analysis and start paying attention to what you fill your mind with.

These sources exist, and like my post to Atlanteax teaching him how to read a story, I encourage you all to learn about the "good" media.

[Androidpk]

Yes she is hot, but how old is she?

I don't know.

[Ryvicke]

So exactly why don't you believe in more strenuous testing for concealed weapons permit?

This is something I absolutely believe in. More than any other restriction on firearms, "shall issue" needs to end.


Wow, I hope Back does not go out and shoot anyone after he falls down from drinking too much.

.

In the meantime, why the fark has it taken SO long for this picture to surface in the media? *Why* ?!?

Far too much media bias (denied by WarriorBird and Ryvicke, of course) in painting Zimmerman guilty with innocent-as-possible pictures of Trayvon Martin, and guilty-as-possible pictures with George Zimmerman ... with this being the first time ever there is a *non*-oh-he-is-definitely-guilty picture of Zimmerman.

Why has the oh so bias'ed framestream media released this picture that so obviously works against their narrative?? Seems stupid of them.

I will never deny media bias--I think I've made quite a few posts in this thread about exactly why this story is so huge and most of it has to do with strong feelings on both sides. That said I believe ABC runs what they have as soon as they have it. I don't know who their source is on this picture or the video from the police station, but I think their name being attached to scoops is important to them.

[diethx]

Just my opinion, but for a headwound, that doesn't look that bad. Headwounds bleed alot, and that's not a lot.

This. I was wrestling around with Justin like 7 years ago and I banged my head on a doorknob. It bled more than that. My hair was fucking matted.

[Androidpk]

This. I was wrestling around with Justin like 7 years ago and I banged my head on a doorknob. It bled more than that. My hair was fucking matted.

Should have made me a sandwich the first time I asked.

[Atlanteax]

Sorry but no. Dependable media sources might not be the ones that are IN YOUR FACE, or on your teevee, but they exist and are the record of choice for a huge demographic.

I live in liberal-ass, rich, disgusting hipster-land. I also live in the journalism and media capital of the world--50% of the people I work with went to journalism school and I too studied it for four years. Do you think we're fucking around with trash when we throw links out to each other? We'd ostracize any dumbfuck who once called our attention to some piece of biased nonsense--seriously, that dude would know of his crimes and we would steal his shit out of the refrigerator and eat it in front of him.

So basically you were taught to ignore any news source story/information if it contradicted what you thought/believe... and then harass anyone that tries to enlighten you... got it!

[diethx]

Should have made me a sandwich the first time I asked.

Ahaha.

[Ryvicke]

So basically you were taught to ignore any news source story/information if it contradicted what you thought/believe... and then harass anyone that tries to enlighten you... got it!

Atlanteax, honestly, you're the same dude that misidentified whether a piece of writing was journalism or opinion about 50 posts ago. I'm still not sure if you can tell the difference. I read news writing on a daily basis that presents facts that I am not happy about, it doesn't mean that I don't read them or that I don't believe them or take them into account.

Just for kicks: here's a piece of opinion writing about Jon Stewart I'm sending out to everyone I know today:

http://www.esquire.com/features/jon-stewart-profile-1011

It's a pretty negative look at the man and what he's done with his life--but it's an incredibly interesting take on his legacy and what he's done with The Daily Show since taking over. Do I agree with it? Not really. Was it incredibly well written, interesting and made me think a ton? Yeah, absolutely. And I fucking love Jon Stewart, but reading something very critical of him is still something I want to do, and something my friends (who also love him) found worthwhile.

So I dunno man--I guess I disagree with your assessment.

[Ryvicke]

Anyone get to watch the bond hearing live? This video that is currently on the CNN story makes the lawyer asking Zimmerman questions look like the biggest dick on the entire planet and Zimmerman handles himself incredibly well and is quite soft-spoken. (OMG WHY DID CNN USE THIS CLIP INSTEAD OF ONE WHERE THEY COULD'VE MADE ZIMMERMAN LOOK SO GUILTY TO FURTHER THEIR FRAMESTREAM MEDIA NARRATIVE?????????)

No but seriously, dude does a nice thing and apologizes to the family for their loss and this lawyer goes fucking hogwild trying to what exactly? Make Zimmerman look guilty? I mean, just the manner in which he's directing his questions makes him seem like a total fuckball.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

[Androidpk]

No but seriously, dude does a nice thing and apologizes to the family for their loss and this lawyer goes fucking hogwild trying to what exactly? Make Zimmerman look guilty? I mean, just the manner in which he's directing his questions makes him seem like a total fuckball.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

What a douchebag.

[Parkbandit]

This is something I absolutely believe in. More than any other restriction on firearms, "shall issue" needs to end.


Woosh.


Sorry but no. Dependable media sources might not be the ones that are IN YOUR FACE, or on your teevee, but they exist and are the record of choice for a huge demographic.

I live in liberal-ass, rich, disgusting hipster-land. I also live in the journalism and media capital of the world--50% of the people I work with went to journalism school and I too studied it for four years. Do you think we're fucking around with trash when we throw links out to each other? We'd ostracize any dumbfuck who once called our attention to some piece of biased nonsense--seriously, that dude would know of his crimes and we would steal his shit out of the refrigerator and eat it in front of him.

The fact is this: good media companies will announce, in any story, a full disclosure of their bias. If the Times uses a quote or sources anything from the International Herald Tribune, for instance, they will alert you to the fact that the two papers are owned by the same parent company. Fuck, even though AOL got dislocated from Time Warner before AOL bought the Huffington Post, HP will still mention it in shit they write about Time Warner as a conflict of interest (not saying the HP is a bastion of incredible journalism, but it does point out its conflicts).

Good newspapers declare their potential conflicts of interest IN every news story they write that deals with an entity that it could potentially seen as being biased towards/against. Good newspaper publish corrections, if needed, that are both emphasized on the story page and held in an area where you can find them all together. Good newspaper separate, completely, their news staff from their editorial staff, from the highest to the lowest level, and never the two should meet.

And if these are still not enough there is a very vibrant and massive section of the internet, usually connected to high-quality journalism departments at universities, that write feverishly a massive quantity of words daily about the good media--mostly about when they fail or could've done better.

Stop watching TV, stop reading editorial or analysis and start paying attention to what you fill your mind with.

These sources exist, and like my post to Atlanteax teaching him how to read a story, I encourage you all to learn about the "good" media.

I'm still awaiting this fantastic list of truly unbiased journalism sources you so proudly use.

[Parkbandit]

Anyone get to watch the bond hearing live? This video that is currently on the CNN story makes the lawyer asking Zimmerman questions look like the biggest dick on the entire planet and Zimmerman handles himself incredibly well and is quite soft-spoken. (OMG WHY DID CNN USE THIS CLIP INSTEAD OF ONE WHERE THEY COULD'VE MADE ZIMMERMAN LOOK SO GUILTY TO FURTHER THEIR FRAMESTREAM MEDIA NARRATIVE?????????)

No but seriously, dude does a nice thing and apologizes to the family for their loss and this lawyer goes fucking hogwild trying to what exactly? Make Zimmerman look guilty? I mean, just the manner in which he's directing his questions makes him seem like a total fuckball.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

Makes you feel badly for Zimmerman... like he's being treated poorly by his own lawyer.

Mission accomplished by his lawyer then.

[Celephais]

Wow, yeah that clip really does make the attorney look like a cockwad. I know his freedom kind of depends on it, but I'd have a hard time not responding with some raving "are you serious?! You are aware that I'm being charged with murder, that might have factored into the reason why I didn't tell them right away".

[Ryvicke]

Makes you feel badly for Zimmerman... like he's being treated poorly by his own lawyer.

Mission accomplished by his lawyer then.

???

[Celephais]

Makes you feel badly for Zimmerman... like he's being treated poorly by his own lawyer.

Mission accomplished by his lawyer then.

That's Zimmerman's lawyer talking to him? Hahhaa... wuuut... I really hate how much of our legal system is based on manipulating human psyche instead of facts.

[Ryvicke]

That's Zimmerman's lawyer talking to him? Hahhaa... wuuut... I really hate how much of our legal system is based on manipulating human psyche instead of facts.

No, that is the prosecuting attorney.

[Tgo01]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1


Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who is Hispanic, maintains he acted in self-defense. His family says he did not profile Martin.

Zimmerman is Hispanic again?

[Parkbandit]

No, that is the prosecuting attorney.

Was it really? It looked and sounded like his own attorney.

http://media2.abcactionnews.com//photo/2012/04/12/George_Zimmerman_lawyer_Mark_O'Mara_20120412074510 _320_240.JPG

If that was the prosecuting attorney, I foresee Zimmerman getting off with a slap on the wrist.

[Ryvicke]

Zimmerman is Hispanic again?

lol, you guys sure like to come back to weeks-old shit over and over again. Find me the last time a mainstream news source called him white.

[Tgo01]

I don't think we ever see the guy asking those questions. The guy in the very beginning is his lawyer but he says nothing further and goes to sit down then the asshole starts talking.

[Tgo01]

lol, you guys sure like to come back to weeks-old shit over and over again. Find me the last time a mainstream news source called him white.

You have got to be kidding me that you really want me to find you a source for this. This is the first time since the first week of this incident that I've seen Zimmerman been referred to as Hispanic.

[Ryvicke]

I don't think we ever see the guy asking those questions. The guy in the very beginning is his lawyer but he says nothing further and goes to sit down then the asshole starts talking.

It's in every transcript of the hearing. If you've seen any video of Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, you will also notice his voice is quite a bit different than that--he sounds like a well-paid defense lawyer and not some alligator wrestler.

I'm not sure if you and PB actually have brains that would jump to the conclusion that Zimmerman's own lawyer was out to harass him into making him look sympathetic, but that is some a really fucked up and paranoid way to view the world. Helps me understand you guys better though.

Or you guys could actually try to source facts before you babble them like fucking idiots.

[diethx]

http://pull.imgfave.netdna-cdn.com/image_cache/1309069752337418.jpg

[Tgo01]

I'm not sure if you and PB actually have brains that would jump to the conclusion that Zimmerman's own lawyer was out to harass him into making him look sympathetic, but that is some a really fucked up and paranoid way to view the world. Helps me understand you guys better though.

Might want to reread these posts and please point out to me where I said it was Zimmerman's own lawyer asking those questions. For fuck's sake you even quoted me where I said it WASN'T his lawyer.

[Showal]

Here's my impression of Trayvon and Zimmerman, one brown, one white:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/07/guineapigperuAP_450x300.jpg

[Ryvicke]

Might want to reread these posts and please point out to me where I said it was Zimmerman's own lawyer asking those questions. For fuck's sake you even quoted me where I said it WASN'T his lawyer.

I dunno dude, it sounded like you were backing up PB!

I won't reread your posts because I ALREADY CALLED YOU A RETARD AND REFUSE TO BACK DOWN.

[diethx]

Here's my impression of Trayvon and Zimmerman, one brown, one white:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/07/guineapigperuAP_450x300.jpg

Approved.

[Showal]

Approved.

Thanks. You're a trendsetter.

[Atlanteax]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

Look for the blue text that says "probable cause affidavit" ... which I cannot link myself, as it leads to an adobe pop-up.

Reading over this affidavit, I'm left with the impression that it was unprofessionally done.

I guess the disclaimer at the end "NOT a complete recitation of all the pertinent facts and evidence ... only presented for a determination of probable cause for 2nd degree murder" sums up what it is...

An affidavit generated under political pressure with questionable criteria intended to lead to the arrest of Zimmerman and a (mock?) trial to placate emotionally-charged constituents.

[diethx]

http://kevinyank.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/piggie-fight.jpg

[Showal]

WATCH OUT PUG! GP HAS A GUN!!!

http://bookmarkblogs.com/_data/userpics/big_thumb/the-eternal-battle-between-puglets-and-guinea-pigs-wages-on----.jpg

[Showal]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YtMmSHMbnIs/T3HdjhY9lAI/AAAAAAAAD_E/SEq5QSZyZME/s1600/SmokeyFoghorn1.JPG

[Celephais]

GUINEA PIG THREAD!!!

http://0.tqn.com/d/exoticpets/1/0/Y/K/1/shirleyzippy.JPG

[Ryvicke]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/pidghedge.jpg

[diethx]

http://www.thatcutesite.com/uploads/2010/07/guinea_pig_in_cups-600x399.jpg

[Ryvicke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw-IAYxu5uo

[diethx]

Holy crap that was cute.

[Ryvicke]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/Funnyhedgehog.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/hedge_hog_coffee.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/conkers_big.jpg

[Celephais]

This thread has been dedildoed

http://i.imgur.com/nIK1z.jpg

[diethx]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9qvn6W1qJ1qciio8o1_500.jpg

[Showal]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpmrvrPrXu1qe300ao1_500.jpg

[Fallen]

I fucking hate guinea pigs. That is all.

[diethx]

I fucking hate guinea pigs. That is all.

Don't fret - this thread can have a little something for everyone.

http://images.thriftyfun.com/images/articles/cinnamonbunny.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

Look for the blue text that says "probable cause affidavit" ... which I cannot link myself, as it leads to an adobe pop-up.

Reading over this affidavit, I'm left with the impression that it was unprofessionally done.

I guess the disclaimer at the end "NOT a complete recitation of all the pertinent facts and evidence ... only presented for a determination of probable cause for 2nd degree murder" sums up what it is...

An affidavit generated under political pressure with questionable criteria intended to lead to the arrest of Zimmerman and a (mock?) trial to placate emotionally-charged constituents.According to one of our lawyer types, the prosecution can convict on lesser charges in the same trial. I would think they were gunning for manslaughter all along.

I am not sure what is happening in this thread.

[TheEschaton]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

Look for the blue text that says "probable cause affidavit" ... which I cannot link myself, as it leads to an adobe pop-up.

Reading over this affidavit, I'm left with the impression that it was unprofessionally done.

I guess the disclaimer at the end "NOT a complete recitation of all the pertinent facts and evidence ... only presented for a determination of probable cause for 2nd degree murder" sums up what it is...

An affidavit generated under political pressure with questionable criteria intended to lead to the arrest of Zimmerman and a (mock?) trial to placate emotionally-charged constituents.

Again, I love it when non-legal folks try to determine the legal reasoning behind something. That phrase is very common on affadavits, and it is simply used to say that they can introduce evidence not listed in the affadavit, and that the affadavit is not their complete case.

IOW, they provided only what they needed to get probable cause.

Now, I can't exactly read the affadavit right now, but hell, Atlanteax, stop being a dumbass.

[Jonty]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

Look for the blue text that says "probable cause affidavit" ... which I cannot link myself, as it leads to an adobe pop-up.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/04/12/zimmerman.affidavit.pdf

[AnticorRifling]

I don't think I've ever put assumptions like that in an APC before, other than that it's fairly standard looking (format slightly different but it is a different state).

[Jarvan]

According to one of our lawyer types, the prosecution can convict on lesser charges in the same trial. I would think they were gunning for manslaughter all along.

I am not sure what is happening in this thread.

Remember the Other Big Murder trial in FL recently? Boy am I glad she got convicted on less charges....

[Atlanteax]

Again, I love it when non-legal folks try to determine the legal reasoning behind something. That phrase is very common on affadavits, and it is simply used to say that they can introduce evidence not listed in the affadavit, and that the affadavit is not their complete case.

IOW, they provided only what they needed to get probable cause.

Now, I can't exactly read the affadavit right now, but hell, Atlanteax, stop being a dumbass.

You're too caught up in the legalese, next time refrain from commenting until you have read the affidavit.

[Atlanteax]

I don't think I've ever put assumptions like that in an APC before, other than that it's fairly standard looking (format slightly different but it is a different state).

That's why I was commenting it seemed unprofessional and more of a politically-motivated "oh, here is probable cause!"

[Ryvicke]

You're too caught up in the legalese, next time refrain from commenting until you have read the affidavit.

lol, if by "too caught up in the legalese" you mean actually knowing what the fuck he's talking about then I feel your pain that he made you look stupid.

Also, just for kicks, let's keep a tally of shit you have no idea how to do:

- use semi-colons
- create hyperlinks to websites
- identify fiction and non-fiction

[AnticorRifling]

That's why I was commenting it seemed unprofessional and more of a politically-motivated "oh, here is probable cause!"

No you weren't.

[Celephais]

According to one of our lawyer types, the prosecution can convict on lesser charges in the same trial. I would think they were gunning for manslaughter all along.

Hey, cut the off topic chatter
http://s2.favim.com/orig/28/adorable-bunnies-bunny-cup-cute-Favim.com-233013.gif

[TheEschaton]

You're too caught up in the legalese, next time refrain from commenting until you have read the affidavit.

I have now, in fact, read the affadavit, and am wondering if you have any fucking idea what you're talking about?

What is your objection? What makes it "unprofessionally done"? Have you ever seen a criminal affadavit before?

[Atlanteax]

I have now, in fact, read the affadavit, and am wondering if you have any fucking idea what you're talking about?

What is your objection? What makes it "unprofessionally done"? Have you ever seen a criminal affadavit before?

The lame and clearly biased assumptions presented.

As I said, if anything, the affidavit only serves to cement the perspective that it was politically motivated to establish probable cause.

And no, I have never seen a criminal affidavit in person before ... I tend to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[TheEschaton]

So, you've never seen a criminal affidavit.

An affidavit is not a statement of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. It does not assert the facts contained within to be absolutely true beyond reasonable doubt. It says that the items stated within lead to a sufficient finding of probable cause. It does not need to present claims that counter it, such issues would be brought on a motion to dismiss.

If you knew the standards of probable cause, you'd know that they are very low. You would also know that affidavits merely reflect what witnesses say they witnessed under penalty of perjury.

In other words, it's a fairly standard criminal affidavit.

tl;dr: you're a huge ridiculous dumbass.

[Showal]

http://chzmemeanimals.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/advice-animals-memes-insanity-pup-bunny.jpg

[Ryvicke]

Relevant to all threads in this thread:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/topical.jpg

[Ryvicke]

Relevant to life on Earth:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/kitty.gif

[Stanley Burrell]

Relevant to life on Earth:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/kitty.gif

There is no GIS for the pancake rabbit with the universe on its head so this is all you guys get. Good day sirs and madams:

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7517/img1714o.jpg

[Parkbandit]

Wow. What a gigantic failure by the prosecution today.

Either this case eventually gets thrown out or he's found innocent.

[Showal]

http://loldamn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/funny-pug-dog-dancing-tail.jpg

[diethx]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2jsahnre21qb2muuo1_500.jpg

[Methais]

New pic of Zimmerman's head. Looks like any argument that he shot Trayvon in cold blood is now out the window.



http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

The blood on the right is kinda shaped like a klan hood.

No doubt it was a hate crime now.

[Tgo01]

Sorry to possibly swing this thread back on topic but why do the Martin's still have a lawyer(s)? I thought the main thing was they wanted an arrest, they got an arrest. Are they keeping them on retainer until a civil suit or what?

Does it really seem fair that the family can hire a bunch of lawyers to go around on talk shows and TV stations and call Zimmerman a liar and a murderer over and over again before a jury has even been selected?

[TheEschaton]

To be honest, you don't really need a lawyer as the victim's family member, unless you think that something is being covered up/not being pursued properly. Even in that case, you file a complaint with the DA's office, then the AG's office, etc, etc, all of which doesn't really require your own lawyer, since the ADA is the one who would look into police corruption/cover up anyways.

If there is a potential civil case, any lawyer worth his salt would wait for a potential criminal trial before deciding whether or not to pursue a civil case. A guilty verdict is almost a sure win for a civil case (seeing as the former has a higher burden of proof), and depending on how close a non-guilty verdict is, would influence whether you'd file suit.

Any civil case in this particular case would probably be against the police, though, not Zimmerman, unless Zimmerman's daddy is filthy rich.

[Jarvan]

I think the main reason they have a lawyer is for, In MY opinion, Their own greed at this point. Remember, the Mother Trademarked some sayings recently. Likely she needed a lawyer for that to begin with. Also, they would need a lawyer for promoting it, and for alot of what they are doing, interviews and congressional hearings. You generally do not want to go before congress without a lawyer's advice, or at least I wouldn't think you wouldn't.

Also, they will need a lawyer for any and all book deals and/or movie deals they are offered/look for now about "The Trayvon Story" which I am sure you will see sooner or later.

[Back]

I think the main reason they have a lawyer is for, In MY opinion, Their own greed at this point. Remember, the Mother Trademarked some sayings recently. Likely she needed a lawyer for that to begin with. Also, they would need a lawyer for promoting it, and for alot of what they are doing, interviews and congressional hearings. You generally do not want to go before congress without a lawyer's advice, or at least I wouldn't think you wouldn't.

Also, they will need a lawyer for any and all book deals and/or movie deals they are offered/look for now about "The Trayvon Story" which I am sure you will see sooner or later.

Whats wrong with doing any of those things?

[Ryvicke]

Whats wrong with doing any of those things?

When your kid dies you're supposed to just chill out and keep your mouth shut. Jarvan suggests turning on the old color TV, getting yourself a beer, maybe some wings. Wings are awesome.

[Jarvan]

When your kid dies you're supposed to just chill out and keep your mouth shut. Jarvan suggests turning on the old color TV, getting yourself a beer, maybe some wings. Wings are awesome.

Sorry, But it's my opinion that only sick twisted fucks try to profit off the death of their kid.

I don't know specifically if they are, but if they are, then I stand by my opinion.

The whole "He's dead, I may as well make some money off it" mentality is one of the problems we have in this country.

[Back]

Sorry, But it's my opinion that only sick twisted fucks try to profit off the death of their kid.

I don't know specifically if they are, but if they are, then I stand by my opinion.

The whole "He's dead, I may as well make some money off it" mentality is one of the problems we have in this country.

I've never even heard of this being an issue. In fact no one batted an eyelash when Michael Jackson's estate put together a show and sold CDs after his death. This is America where capitalism and freedom are considered one in the same.

That mother and father's child is dead. Gone. Taken away forever. No more birthday parties. No more football in the yard. No more holidays together. No prom. No college. No marriage. No grandchildren. That family has been denied what most of us take for granted.

You sit there and post after post cast judgement on them in their loss trying to find reasons to denigrate them.

Whos the sick twisted fuck?

[Celephais]

When your kid dies you're supposed to just chill out and keep your mouth shut. Jarvan suggests turning on the old color TV, getting yourself a beer, maybe some wings. Wings are awesome.

Wings ARE awesome...

[Jarvan]

I've never even heard of this being an issue. In fact no one batted an eyelash when Michael Jackson's estate put together a show and sold CDs after his death. This is America where capitalism and freedom are considered one in the same.

That mother and father's child is dead. Gone. Taken away forever. No more birthday parties. No more football in the yard. No more holidays together. No prom. No college. No marriage. No grandchildren. That family has been denied what most of us take for granted.

You sit there and post after post cast judgement on them in their loss trying to find reasons to denigrate them.

Whos the sick twisted fuck?

True.. I was wrong, I guess it's you.

First of all, this is the first post you could say I have cast judgement on the family. So it isn't post after post.

Second, there is a difference between Michael Jackson and Trayvon Martin. Maybe if Trayvon was a super star singer, I could understand trademarking phrases or making a movie.

As for them Not having a son no more.. No shit? He doesn't rise from the dead three days later? That sucks.

It. Happens. Every. Day. People Die. People are Murdered. People slip on an ice patch and crack their skull open. That's Life. You Grieve, and you move on. NORMAL people don't try to find a way to make money off of it.

When Dr's told me the Day before Thanksgiving that My dad was lying about not having long to live, and that he didn't really have cancer. Then Having him Die at 2 Am on Black Friday.. did I think I should sue the Dr's for not giving me a chance to say goodbye to him? Or lying to me? For a few seconds I was pissed, but I never thought I should sue.

My Dad had cancer 4 times in the 80's, he Beat it each time... tho it ruined his body and spirit. He got it back in 2003 and it finally killed him after the Dr's said he should have died 2 years before he did.

You don't see a Movie about him, or see any books. Whereas some semi celeb gets a mole thats cancerous and you see.. "the Joe dork Story: How I survived Cancer". Why? Cause they care about money. Is there something legally Wrong with Capitalizing On their son's death? No.

Do ~I~ Find it Morally reprehensible, YES. I really don't give a rats ass if Libtads Like Ryvicke or Morons like you disagree with my Opinion on Morale issues.

I am sure you feel it would be ok for a "George Zimmerman Story: What really Happened" ~~ I don't.

[Ryvicke]

True.. I was wrong, I guess it's you.

First of all, this is the first post you could say I have cast judgement on the family. So it isn't post after post.

Second, there is a difference between Michael Jackson and Trayvon Martin. Maybe if Trayvon was a super star singer, I could understand trademarking phrases or making a movie.

As for them Not having a son no more.. No shit? He doesn't rise from the dead three days later? That sucks.

It. Happens. Every. Day. People Die. People are Murdered. People slip on an ice patch and crack their skull open. That's Life. You Grieve, and you move on. NORMAL people don't try to find a way to make money off of it.

When Dr's told me the Day before Thanksgiving that My dad was lying about not having long to live, and that he didn't really have cancer. Then Having him Die at 2 Am on Black Friday.. did I think I should sue the Dr's for not giving me a chance to say goodbye to him? Or lying to me? For a few seconds I was pissed, but I never thought I should sue.

My Dad had cancer 4 times in the 80's, he Beat it each time... tho it ruined his body and spirit. He got it back in 2003 and it finally killed him after the Dr's said he should have died 2 years before he did.

You don't see a Movie about him, or see any books. Whereas some semi celeb gets a mole thats cancerous and you see.. "the Joe dork Story: How I survived Cancer". Why? Cause they care about money. Is there something legally Wrong with Capitalizing On their son's death? No.

Do ~I~ Find it Morally reprehensible, YES. I really don't give a rats ass if Libtads Like Ryvicke or Morons like you disagree with my Opinion on Morale issues.

I am sure you feel it would be ok for a "George Zimmerman Story: What really Happened" ~~ I don't.

Sorry to hear about your Dad.

I just read a bunch of articles about why their lawyers trademarked what they did and it sounds like people were making cash by pretending to be a fund for their legal defense when they had nothing to do with them. I also tried to find any mention of them setting up any way to financially benefit from Trayvon's death and I have not found it.

Do you have a source for what you're accusing them of?

[Jarvan]

Do I NEED a source? I said it was my Opinion of what they are doing.

People don't need sources for such.

[TheEschaton]

So when a source directly contradicts your opinion, is your opinion still just an opinion?

Or is it stupidity, and, more cynically, rabid partisan fear-mongering?

[Ryvicke]

Do I NEED a source? I said it was my Opinion of what they are doing.

People don't need sources for such.

lol, stunned. Um... okay dude. Good to know.

[diethx]

When your kid dies you're supposed to just chill out and keep your mouth shut. Jarvan suggests turning on the old color TV, getting yourself a beer, maybe some wings. Wings are awesome.


Wings ARE awesome...

Damnit Kellen, stop reading my mind.

In other (related) news... a puppy eating a chicken wing:

http://andisarottweilerpugs.com/images/page_291.jpg

[Tisket]

I google image searched "puppies" for a feel good moment earlier. I needed an insulin shot soon after.

edit: it occured to me that if Diethx deletes her post, this will seem to be the most random, out-of-the-blue post I've ever made.

[Jarvan]

So when a source directly contradicts your opinion, is your opinion still just an opinion?

Or is it stupidity, and, more cynically, rabid partisan fear-mongering?

You mean like most of the people on this board?

And I am not Partisan, unless hating both parties makes me Partisan.

Also, what source contradicted my Opinion, hmm?

It's one of those Opinion's you can't disprove by them claiming they are not making money, or trying to. And frankly.. if 20 years from now, a "Trayvon Martin Movie" comes out, then my opinion would have been valid.

Just cause YOU don't like my Opinion, doesn't make it wrong either. But then again, I am sure you don't agree with me.

[Jarvan]

lol, stunned. Um... okay dude. Good to know.

Well.. did people need a source to Call George a Murderer? He hasn't been convicted yet, so it's just their Opinion.

Are you stunned by them as well? Doubtful.

[TheEschaton]

I hear no one called OJ a murderer, since he was acquitted.

[Tisket]

People who randomly capitalize words should be hunted down and beat with a keyboard.

[diethx]

People who randomly capitalize words should be hunted down and beat with a keyboard.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Tisket]

I know he does it because he is under the mistaken belief that it adds gravitas to his thoughts but all it does is highlight his fractured, grade school logic.

[Celephais]

Damnit Kellen, stop reading my mind.

In other (related) news... a puppy eating a chicken wing:

http://andisarottweilerpugs.com/images/page_291.jpg
I can't figure out what I searched, but I searched something like guinea pig chicken wings and there was a topless chick pretty early on so I go distracted and posted my comment without a picture.

I google image searched "puppies" for a feel good moment earlier. I needed an insulin shot soon after.

edit: it occured to me that if Diethx deletes her post, this will seem to be the most random, out-of-the-blue post I've ever made.
Has someone been talking to Stanley Burrell and deleting their post right after he responds?


I know he does it because he is under the mistaken belief that it adds Gravitas to his thoughts but all it does is highlight his fractured, grade school logic.

It's amazing how much insight into what was going through someone's head when they made a post based on the words, and punctuation they used.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Sorry Jarvan but people who use a phrase like libtards aren't going to get away with the assertion of not being political.

I'm going to go google puppies now

[Jarvan]

I hear no one called OJ a murderer, since he was acquitted.


So your saying people did call him a murderer, even tho facts proved them wrong? OMG.

Thanks for making my point.

On a side note, it's my opinion that he did murder them -OJ- but since he wasn't found guilty, he is in fact, not a murderer.

This is for Trisket and Diethx.

Feel Free to PM me for my Address to Have me Beaten with a Keyboard.

[Celephais]

Sorry Jarvan but people who use a phrase like libtards aren't going to get away with the assertion of not being political.

I'm going to go google puppies now

Try googling tumblr titties and kitties. You're welcome.

[Celephais]

On a side note, it's my opinion that he did murder them -OJ- but since he wasn't found guilty, he is in fact, not a murderer.

What? Um... court of law does not determine fact. A court of law will determine what you can legally call him as far as slander goes, but not what he actually is.

If I murder someone, admit it, but I am found not guilty by reason of insanity, I'm still a murder, an insane murder.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Try googling tumblr titties and kitties. You're welcome.

I'm not digging the whole spread-vagina-see-inside-this-girl-now poses :/ It's just not a cute look

[Celephais]

I'm not digging the whole spread-vagina-see-inside-this-girl-now poses :/ It's just not a cute look

Hmm, most of the time it's classier stuff, SG and the like.

[Androidpk]

Classy and delicious.

[diethx]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/a65c3071-cf65-4769-8455-5a51aa1cc1d8.jpg

[diethx]

http://thepmi.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/frenchhornguineapig.jpg

[Back]

With an entire board of threads to post in the reason for you three to immaturely act out in this particular thread is why exactly?

[diethx]

You're right. Posting pics of adorable animals is immature. Arguing like six year old titty babies for 1200 posts isn't. Our bad.

[Androidpk]

With an entire board of threads to post in the reason for you three to immaturely act out in this particular thread is why exactly?

Coming from you thats fucking rich.

[Celephais]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2oygwXrnK1rn7oi8o1_500.jpg

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqis82hicD1qafrh6.gif

[diethx]

http://www.picgifs.com/avatars/animals/hamster/avatars-hamster-598063.jpg

[Warriorbird]

New witness saw Trayvon... 04-22-2012 10:56 AM You rail against selective reporting, then provide a quote from Martin's attorney? You're an idiot.

I'm sorry dumbass. I was only providing both sides, "fair and balanced" style, unlike the board's conservatives, even the smart ones, who were only providing one. I can understand why you might have difficulty with that though.

[Showal]

http://www.funpeak.com/funnypics/huge-guinea-pig.jpg

[Warriorbird]

I surrender! No more politics!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Hw8iZ-uha7o/Tk9U9V3OcQI/AAAAAAAABwE/WzT9gFnwDiY/s320/otter-021b.jpg

[diethx]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lldqrokF551qh1e4vo1_400.jpg

[Atlanteax]

http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/wp-content/2011/06/cute-animal-spam.gif

[Back]

ok, fine.

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/4/20/2/anigif_enhanced-buzz-6237-1334902551-3.gif

[Androidpk]

http://slackstack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Cat+watching+TV+Caption+this+Animated+Gif1.gif

[Tisket]

The black one clearly initiated the fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x4BN2INGBw

[Androidpk]

The black one clearly initiated the fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x4BN2INGBw

After what the white dog said to the black dog do you blame him?

[diethx]

ok, fine.

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/4/20/2/anigif_enhanced-buzz-6237-1334902551-3.gif

I never tire of that one. FFFFFSSSSS I feel like a puddle of jello.

[Kuyuk]

The black one clearly initiated the fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x4BN2INGBw

I wonder if there's giant puppy/other animal mills to supply petsmart and other big name places.

[Showal]

I wonder if there's giant puppy/other animal mills to supply petsmart and other big name places.

Petsmart and petco refuse to sell dogs and cats for that reason.