New witness saw Trayvon attack Zimmerman [Archive] - Page 3

Jarvan

03-27-2012, 06:23 PM

If you went out of your way to start a conflict, as Zimmerman did, that's not defense any more, no matter how badly the conflict goes for you. Including a gun or any other weapon in that act makes it that much worse.

I still love how you insist Zimmerman started the conflict. Somehow, in your twisted mind, following someone you "believe" however wrong, to be suspicious and possibly up to no good ~since there HAVE been break ins in your neighborhood~ and you are a concerned citizen, NW or not, is a crime.

Basically, stating that Zimmerman started the conflict, you must believe he should be arrested for Assault at least, or maybe Harassment. After all, he may or may not have thrown the first punch, but damn.. he ran after someone to see where they went so he could tell the police. That's criminal right there.

I am not even sure CA could get either of those to stick.

I take it if we were in a bar, and I was staring daggers at you, you would be justified to break my nose, and pound my skull into the pavement.

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 06:32 PM

I'll bet you, PB, all the other gun people on this forum have gone their whole civilian lives without chasing after someone while carrying. It really hasn't been that hard to avoid, has it? It baffles me that this moron decides he's on Law and Order and you guys are defending him.

I really don't understand what your hang up is that he 'chased' after someone while carrying, as if him carrying a concealed weapon has any bearing on anything. So anytime someone who is carrying a concealed weapon gets into a scuffle he's wrong for carrying a weapon? If someone witnesses a man beating an old lady and 'chases' after him to get a good description to give to police he is automatically in the wrong because he should have known better?

I don't own a gun and never have so maybe I'm not as familiar with concealed weapon permits as others are but it's to my understanding you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon anytime, anywhere except for certain places where firearms are strictly forbidden. I don't think there are clauses such as "You have to leave your firearm in your vehicle if you decide to follow someone."

Menos

03-27-2012, 06:33 PM

I didn't say it was evil. I must insist that a gun belongs to a specific subset of tools: weapons. I believe you said you carry a gun, right? You don't do this because you might use it to build a table, or cut a seat belt. You do it to defend yourself (right?), which only makes sense with the possibility of shooting someone with it. If you went out of your way to start a conflict, as Zimmerman did, that's not defense any more, no matter how badly the conflict goes for you. Including a gun or any other weapon in that act makes it that much worse.I didn't say Martin knew. Zimmerman absolutely knew he was armed and untrained for pursuit, did it anyway, and someone died. The point of reckless endangerment is that he reasonably should have foreseen that possible outcome.

I'll bet you, PB, all the other gun people on this forum have gone their whole civilian lives without chasing after someone while carrying. It really hasn't been that hard to avoid, has it? It baffles me that this moron decides he's on Law and Order and you guys are defending him.

As you think Zimmerman did. Following is not starting a conflict.

BTW, You would lose that bet on me too. I have thankfully never once needed to use or even draw my weapon, but doing that is also not uncommon. Something between 800k and 2.5 million per year, depending on which study you like. The below article summarizes results from 14 studies between 1976 and 1995. I suppose it is possible the increase in firearms ownership since 1995 may have inflated these numbers still more.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=162693

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 06:37 PM

I wish I had a gun, I wonder why New York City doesn't let anyone have conceal and carry permits. Stupid New York City.

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 06:39 PM

PB I would get a glock too cause that's what Mulder used on the X-Files. Mulder rules.

Rinualdo

03-27-2012, 06:41 PM

I have a G22 that stays in my bedside table.

TheEschaton

03-27-2012, 06:45 PM

I wish I had a gun, I wonder why New York City doesn't let anyone have conceal and carry permits. Stupid New York City.

Only police officers are allowed carry permits, and people with extreme circumstances (like bodyguards for politicians), in NYC. It makes it easier when every gun is an illegal one.

(I worked once for DANY and asked the same question).

Back

03-27-2012, 06:47 PM

I wish I had a gun, I wonder why New York City doesn't let anyone have conceal and carry permits. Stupid New York City.

I've never thought I needed one. But if someone can follow me around with one and provoke me into a fight then kill me in self defense I should probably get one.

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 06:57 PM

Looking at the maps of the place, there are (presumedly) concrete paths running behind the houses. Almost all the 911 calls referenced the fight being "in our backyard" or "on our porch". in fact, looking at the google map of the location, there's no sidewalks on the road, only these paths cutting behind the houses.

The concrete paths do seem to be running behind people's houses but you're making it sound like these paths are 300 yards from the road. There are plenty of instances where these concrete paths appear to be less than 20 feet from the road where he could have parked his car. Also I'm sure the people didn't literally mean 'on our porch' my dad references our 'back porch' all the time when we don't even have a porch, he just means our backyard.

It's also interesting to me how this story has morphed over the past week. When I first started reading about this story people almost had me convinced Zimmerman was driving down the road, spotted a black guy, got out of his car brandishing his gun, chased the kid, the kid started crying and Zimmerman shot him in cold blood. It sounded like a pretty open and shut case against Zimmerman and the cops were just a bunch of crooks for defending him.

Now it seems like everything about the original 'story' is being contested, even down to who was really the one crying.

EDIT: Looking at google earth again there do appear to be concrete paths in front of some people's houses, but not all of them.

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 06:57 PM

Only police officers are allowed carry permits, and people with extreme circumstances (like bodyguards for politicians), in NYC. It makes it easier when every gun is an illegal one.

(I worked once for DANY and asked the same question).

Yeah actually I work with a bunch of retired cops throughout the region (NY/NJ/CT/PA) and they are actually also allowed to conceal and carry through some type of reciprocity with other PDs.

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 06:58 PM

I've never thought I needed one. But if someone can follow me around with one and provoke me into a fight then kill me in self defense I should probably get one.

Dude we all need to get one or at least two. Or they're going to take your freedom away.

Nieninque

03-27-2012, 07:18 PM

I really don't understand what your hang up is that he 'chased' after someone while carrying, as if him carrying a concealed weapon has any bearing on anything.

It has some bearing on the fact that at some point it became unconcealed and killed the kid. I think that's pretty important.

Lord Orbstar

03-27-2012, 07:19 PM

Jarvan

03-27-2012, 07:21 PM

I wish I had a gun, I wonder why New York City doesn't let anyone have conceal and carry permits. Stupid New York City.

It's always better when only the criminals have weapons. Just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside when I am in New York and know I can't carry my gun, but am sure there is at least a few people around carrying them illegally.

Latrinsorm

03-27-2012, 07:25 PM

I still love how you insist Zimmerman started the conflict. Somehow, in your twisted mind, following someone you "believe" however wrong, to be suspicious and possibly up to no good ~since there HAVE been break ins in your neighborhood~ and you are a concerned citizen, NW or not, is a crime.

Basically, stating that Zimmerman started the conflict, you must believe he should be arrested for Assault at least, or maybe Harassment. After all, he may or may not have thrown the first punch, but damn.. he ran after someone to see where they went so he could tell the police. That's criminal right there.

I am not even sure CA could get either of those to stick.

I take it if we were in a bar, and I was staring daggers at you, you would be justified to break my nose, and pound my skull into the pavement.I never said it was a crime. You are really struggling with this correctly identifying what other people are saying thing. I advise you to sit out a few plays.
I really don't understand what your hang up is that he 'chased' after someone while carrying, as if him carrying a concealed weapon has any bearing on anything. So anytime someone who is carrying a concealed weapon gets into a scuffle he's wrong for carrying a weapon?Carrying a gun with a permit: okay.
Someone running away from you while you are carrying a gun with a permit: okay.
Getting attacked unprovoked while you are carrying a gun with a permit: okay (on your part).
You chasing after someone running away from you while etc.: not okay.
Any other way of dramatically increasing the odds of physical conflict while etc.: not okay.

Anytime someone who is carrying a weapon (concealed or otherwise) provokes a fight, he's wrong. He's being reckless, he's endangering peoples' lives. Reckless endangerment.
If someone witnesses a man beating an old lady and 'chases' after him to get a good description to give to police he is automatically in the wrong because he should have known better?Did you notice how you shifted this to someone witnessing an actual crime, rather than merely witnessing walking while black?
I don't own a gun and never have so maybe I'm not as familiar with concealed weapon permits as others are but it's to my understanding you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon anytime, anywhere except for certain places where firearms are strictly forbidden. I don't think there are clauses such as "You have to leave your firearm in your vehicle if you decide to follow someone."I'll bet you can get your permit taken away if you are convicted for manslaughter with a firearm. I'm 0 for 1 so far today, but we'll see. There probably also isn't a clause such as "You should not scratch your nose with your firearm" or "You should not see how high you can throw your gun in the air without it going off when it hits the ground", because it's common sense.
As you think Zimmerman did. Following is not starting a conflict.Look, Zimmerman said Martin was walking around. Then he said Martin was running. Then he said he was following Martin (therefore Martin was running away). Chasing someone who's running away is the definition of starting a conflict. All Zimmerman had to do was stand still, and nobody would have gotten hurt. This isn't a hindsight is 20/20 thing either. The 911 operator knew it was a bad idea in the heat of the moment. His boss knew it was a bad idea to carry on the job, so to speak.

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 07:27 PM

It has some bearing on the fact that at some point it became unconcealed and killed the kid. I think that's pretty important.

Obviously the fact that he used a gun and shot someone is important. What does the fact that this man had a concealed weapon (which he is legally allowed to have) have anything to do with this story up until the point where he took it out and shot someone? Would anyone here calling for Zimmerman's head really be singing a different tune if this played out in the exact same way (and going by Zimmerman's story) except Zimmerman never had a gun and killed Martin with his bare hands?

Latrinsorm

03-27-2012, 07:33 PM

Obviously the fact that he used a gun and shot someone is important. What does the fact that this man had a concealed weapon (which he is legally allowed to have) have anything to do with this story up until the point where he took it out and shot someone? Would anyone here calling for Zimmerman's head really be singing a different tune if this played out in the exact same way (and going by Zimmerman's story) except Zimmerman never had a gun and killed Martin with his bare hands?I've said before that I'm not a lawyer, but I would hope that unintentional death with a deadly weapon carries a greater sentence than unintentional death otherwise.

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 07:34 PM

Look, Zimmerman said Martin was walking around. Then he said Martin was running. Then he said he was following Martin (therefore Martin was running away). Chasing someone who's running away is the definition of starting a conflict. All Zimmerman had to do was stand still, and nobody would have gotten hurt.

This goes against what Zimmerman said in the 911 call and is one of the things I was talking about earlier, people are just cutting/pasting the part where the operator says "We don't need you to do that (follow him)" and then go on to say "See Zimmerman was chasing him down!"

Listen to the whole recording. After the operator suggests he stops following him Zimmerman says "okay" then about a minute later says "I have no idea where he is now." Right there suggests Zimmerman had stopped chasing/following Martin. Zimmerman could have been lying about not knowing where he was anymore but that seems unlikely considering he seemed to want the cops to find him to arrest him (remember "they always get away.")

So if you're following someone then stop then THAT person comes up to you, are you still in the wrong?

Menos

03-27-2012, 07:39 PM

I've said before that I'm not a lawyer, but I would hope that unintentional death with a deadly weapon carries a greater sentence than unintentional death otherwise.

I disagree, as I consider the death to be the issue and not the tool. That being said, it does make a very large difference under Florida law. Any crime with a weapon carries a much higher sentence. Heck, trespassing with a legally carried firearm is a felony. You can read up on our "10-20-life" law for more details.

Edit to add: Under Florida law any death that results from a felony (like assault or a mugging) where that is a reasonably expectable outcome is murder. I didn't mean to kill him/for him to be killed is not generally an acceptable defense in our laws.

Back

03-27-2012, 07:43 PM

Freedom was won and held by men willing to arm and do violence for its sake.

On the subject: I admit to getting sucked onto the bandwagon. I am a police chief and could not fathom why the HELL he was not arrested based on obvious, probable cause then interrogated and tested while arrested.

As usual, it turns out there were reasons and other circumstances we did not know about. That plus the differences in Floridian law compared to California, suggests we should all just...wait. Let the investigation continue and fine the truth.

I have a feeling, in the end, it will have been justified under law, but avoidable and unecessary had either person been more prudent. A tragedy. I have been in several situations where I could have shot and killed a suspect, but did not. Just because you CAN does not mean you should.

None of us were there. Let it play out and avoid the demogogues.

Great post. I have been pretty vocal about my opinion here. I'll admit to some amount of obsession over this from a concerned citizen point of view. This really does have serious ramifications that will affect us all.

Honestly my opinion can and will change if other evidence comes out. It is interesting to me to hear all the varying opinions, theories, and wild ass speculations.

The grand jury hopefully will sort this out next month.

Latrinsorm

03-27-2012, 08:05 PM

This goes against what Zimmerman said in the 911 call and is one of the things I was talking about earlier, people are just cutting/pasting the part where the operator says "We don't need you to do that (follow him)" and then go on to say "See Zimmerman was chasing him down!"

Listen to the whole recording. After the operator suggests he stops following him Zimmerman says "okay" then about a minute later says "I have no idea where he is now." Right there suggests Zimmerman had stopped chasing/following Martin. Zimmerman could have been lying about not knowing where he was anymore but that seems unlikely considering he seemed to want the cops to find him to arrest him (remember "they always get away.")As I said to Atlanteax, I unequivocally agree that at some point Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin, but stopped chasing means was chasing.
So if you're following someone then stop then THAT person comes up to you, are you still in the wrong?Yes! You're the one who brought the gun, you're the one who chased after the person who was running away. I really can't get past this, all Zimmerman had to do was stand in place. He overreacted by calling the police, ok, it happens, not really that big a deal. Stay where the police can find you (have them call me back??? really???), let them do their job. You're not a police man. You're not Clint Eastwood. You're not Batman. What you (Zimmerman) are is a grown up. Act like a grown up and no one ends up getting shot.

If Martin had gotten away, then jumped him an hour/day/week later, that would be different. It's comical to suggest that I can chase after you while you flee, then arbitrarily declare that you can't be angry/scared/defensive anymore the instant I get winded. We might as well suggest bases I can stand on where you aren't allowed to hit me back. It's kid stuff.

Jarvan

03-27-2012, 08:12 PM

This goes against what Zimmerman said in the 911 call and is one of the things I was talking about earlier, people are just cutting/pasting the part where the operator says "We don't need you to do that (follow him)" and then go on to say "See Zimmerman was chasing him down!"

Listen to the whole recording. After the operator suggests he stops following him Zimmerman says "okay" then about a minute later says "I have no idea where he is now." Right there suggests Zimmerman had stopped chasing/following Martin. Zimmerman could have been lying about not knowing where he was anymore but that seems unlikely considering he seemed to want the cops to find him to arrest him (remember "they always get away.")

So if you're following someone then stop then THAT person comes up to you, are you still in the wrong?

According to Latrinsorm, yes. You are. As soon as you follow someone, you are automatically in the wrong, and anything after that point is all your fault.

Just face it, Latrinsorm obviously doesn't grasp anything anyone says.

If Zimmerman had STOOD STILL, and Martin had approached him and attacked him, Zimmerman would have been wrong for being there, or not fleeing, or having a last name with the letter Z. I am sure it would be something.

OBVIOUSLY Martin did nothing wrong, and was the second coming of Christ.

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 08:13 PM

If Martin had gotten away, then jumped him an hour/day/week later, that would be different. It's comical to suggest that I can chase after you while you flee, then arbitrarily declare that you can't be angry/scared/defensive anymore the instant I get winded. We might as well suggest bases I can stand on where you aren't allowed to hit me back. It's kid stuff.

Actually I think the 'kid stuff' is suggesting that there is a 'cooling off' period for lack of a better phrase where the guy you're chasing can't legally attack you after a certain amount of time has passed. "No man, he attacked the guy a day later, obviously he was just being petty." "He attacked the guy less than 5 minutes after the guy stopped chasing him, he's perfectly within his rights to do so." Really?

Could this whole thing have been avoided if Zimmerman didn't chase Martin at all? Yes.

Could this whole thing have been avoided if Martin chose not to get 'angry' at being chased and confronted Zimmerman (if we're going by Zimmerman's story)? Yes.

It works both ways there.

Menos

03-27-2012, 08:19 PM

As I said to Atlanteax, I unequivocally agree that at some point Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin, but stopped chasing means was chasing.Yes! You're the one who brought the gun, you're the one who chased after the person who was running away. I really can't get past this, all Zimmerman had to do was stand in place. He overreacted by calling the police, ok, it happens, not really that big a deal. Stay where the police can find you (have them call me back??? really???), let them do their job. You're not a police man. You're not Clint Eastwood. You're not Batman. What you (Zimmerman) are is a grown up. Act like a grown up and no one ends up getting shot.

If Martin had gotten away, then jumped him an hour/day/week later, that would be different. It's comical to suggest that I can chase after you while you flee, then arbitrarily declare that you can't be angry/scared/defensive anymore the instant I get winded. We might as well suggest bases I can stand on where you aren't allowed to hit me back. It's kid stuff.

One more time... following is not a physical assault. Angry/scared/defensive is not the same as defending yourself from a physical assault. Are you really suggesting that anyone running away who is then followed has a right to try and kill the person doing it in "self defense" absent any actual physical aggression?

Also worth noting IF, and I include that if specifically, Zimmernman's account is true, he was following a man in his neighborhood who was willing to smash the head of anyone who gave slim justification into the pavement so that the police could catch up to him. Sounds like he took responsibility for his community, a lot closer to heroic than childish to me.

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 08:20 PM

Not to mention that in the transcript (http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html) Zimmerman and the dispatcher talk about meeting at the mailboxes on the left side of the clubhouse and the dispatcher is like "okay they'll meet you at the mailboxes" and then he's all "yeah okay, no actually have them call me when they get here and I'll tell them where I am." So he was definitely not planning on staying put (cause he's a fucking citizen jaguar). THEN they're like 'what's your address?' and Zimmy is all "oh crap, I don't want to give that all out." Like... lol Zimmy these are your cop buddies dude give them your home address. But instead then he was just like 'whatevs, pow pow."

Also... why doesn't someone just make the map and piece together whose backyard their in? The 5 911 calls from neighbors all have the addresses and it's pretty easy to tell via the google map which building is the "clubhouse." Someone get on that.

Rinualdo

03-27-2012, 08:21 PM

I wonder if Zimmerman didn't have a gun, would there have been a national uproar if a young black man had bashed the skull in of a latino. Anyone wonder if Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton would be on the scene?

TheEschaton

03-27-2012, 08:23 PM

The 911 calls I heard had the addresses silenced out.

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 08:23 PM

According to Latrinsorm, yes. You are. As soon as you follow someone, you are automatically in the wrong, and anything after that point is all your fault.

Just face it, Latrinsorm obviously doesn't grasp anything anyone says.

Stop being a fucking idiot. You know what Latrin was saying about the "following" stuff. I'll state it again so your fucking pterodactyl brain can get a good grasp on it: when carrying a firearm it's your responsibility to look ahead to the possible consequences of your actions, engaging in an aggressive action, like FOLLOWING SOMEONE who you just don't like the look of is the exact type of thing you might want to think through before engaging that person while you yourself have a gun. You're introducing the possibility of the ULTIMATE END (!!!!!!11) when you walk around with a gun, take some fucking responsibility for it.

Menos

03-27-2012, 08:24 PM

Am I the only one who would rather not give my address to the police? This coming from a white-bread law abider who has never been arrested, detained, or cited (except once for lapsed car registration) in his entire life. I didn't even drink before I turned 21, that's how square I am.

Jarvan

03-27-2012, 08:24 PM

So basically.. if I start chasing after someone I am being aggressive, and the other person is allowed to attack me.

You know.. I've chased after numerous people.. on foot and in a car. Once cause a lady left her purse on the top of her car and it fell off. Once for a dropped wallet.

Wow.. I am glad it wasn't Latrinsorm I was chasing after to help, I would likely have been pummeled for Chasing them.

TheEschaton

03-27-2012, 08:26 PM

Menos

03-27-2012, 08:27 PM

Bobmuhthol

03-27-2012, 08:29 PM

Sounds like he took responsibility for his community, a lot closer to heroic than childish to me.

Calling Zimmerman a hero is mindblowingly inaccurate.

Also, just about every post by Jarvan makes me sad because he doesn't understand things.

Also, just about every post by Ryvicke makes me less sad because he does understand things.

Since we like tossing in hypotheticals, I'm going to hypothetically say that if I was being physically bested by a person who was actively "SMASHING MY HEAD INTO A SIDEWALK," I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to reach for my gun, disable the safety, and shoot that person in the chest while my HEAD IS BEING SMASHED INTO A SIDEWALK.

TheEschaton

03-27-2012, 08:30 PM

Jarvan

03-27-2012, 08:33 PM

Stop being a fucking idiot. You know what Latrin was saying about the "following" stuff. I'll state it again so your fucking pterodactyl brain can get a good grasp on it: when carrying a firearm it's your responsibility to look ahead to the possible consequences of your actions, engaging in an aggressive action, like FOLLOWING SOMEONE who you just don't like the look of is the exact type of thing you might want to think through before engaging that person while you yourself have a gun. You're introducing the possibility of the ULTIMATE END (!!!!!!11) when you walk around with a gun, take some fucking responsibility for it.

So if I am carrying my firearm and some jackass, likely you it seems, cuts me off in traffic and in a fit of anger I toss them the finger, they follow me and attack me when I get out of my car, and I have to defend myself, it was my fault cause I had a gun?

I am sorry, my Ancient Dino brain can't keep up with your super evolved Libtard brain.

How about the the person who thru the first punch take some responsibility for the situation as well? AS FAR AS WE KNOW it was Martin.

But wait.. I am SURE that doesn't fit your All whites are racist, all blacks are saints agenda you libs are spouting this week. Not to mention anyone who looks at a picture of Zimmerman sees latino. But even putting that aside.

Your just a stupid lib who follows like sheep when the media or the left tell you anything.

When the investigation is over, if Zimmerman is found guilty due to EVIDENCE, I will be very happy to have a criminal behind bars. While if the EVIDENCE exonerates him AND the Police, I am sure you will be up in arms over it. Just like every other rational left thinking person out there.

Menos

03-27-2012, 08:35 PM

Also, to be clear, I don't agree with Latrin on the issue he's espousing. If Zimmerman actually stopped and walked back to his car, and Martin BACKTRACKED and confronted him, Martin is in the wrong. Even under Stand Your Ground, you're not allowed to pursue your attacker once they leave. My contention is that I don't believe Zimmerman walked back to his car, and was, in fact, skulking along a path behind people's houses looking for the kid.

As for whether a "cooling-off" period applies, I think it's irrelevant - this whole incident occured within like 5 minutes of the 911 call. That's heat of the moment, but even heat of the moment doesn't allow you to go after a retreating assailant and continue the conflict, even if you're scared for your life. Our laws are arbitrary in some way, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

I damn sure know if I stopped and shot someone who was following me at night while I was wearing a hoodie, absent any sort of physical attack, I would be arrested for murder. I do not see why using my hands would change that.

I added the hoodie part because I happen to work late most days and my exercise often (almost every day) consists of walking the circuit of my town (about 5 miles) after midnight while wearing a hoodie (so as to avoid the rain and conceal the piece). I have been followed and stopped by the police many times, but I have yet to be chased on foot as I do not run from them.

Bobmuhthol

03-27-2012, 08:37 PM

Your just a stupid lib who follows like sheep when the media or the left tell you anything.

This is some pretty solid evidence that we can discount everything you've said.

TheEschaton

03-27-2012, 08:39 PM

Menos

03-27-2012, 08:42 PM

I'm confused as to what part of your post is trying to answer some part of my post. Martin didn't shoot anyone. The contention is whether he backtracked to pick a fight with a retreating Zimmerman (the eventual shooter), or whether Zimmerman caught up to him while he was walking away.

My point is that being followed is not a justification for attacking someone in a manner that could cause their death. This includes both shooting and actions with bare hands.

Being attacked similarly however is pretty darn good justification.

Parkbandit

03-27-2012, 08:43 PM

I hate Glocks, I think they are shitty, and I still carry one. The sad fact is that no matter how uncomfortable it is and how much I want a manual safety, I am a better shot with it than anything else I own suitable for carry.

I'm exactly the same way. I actually refused to rent a Glock at the range because I simply didn't like the looks of it and from what others were saying about it here. My cousin the cop talked me into it.. I rented it and it shot better than anything else all day. The next day I bought one at a great deal.

Edit to add, mine is the 23.

Edit to add again, Wait, the C? Compensated barrels... quicker shooting for 2nd, 3rd, 4th shots.. less recoil.

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 08:43 PM

Since we like tossing in hypotheticals, I'm going to hypothetically say that if I was being physically bested by a person who was actively "SMASHING MY HEAD INTO A SIDEWALK," I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to reach for my gun, disable the safety, and shoot that person in the chest while my HEAD IS BEING SMASHED INTO A SIDEWALK.

I'm not sure how hard it would be either. I would imagine it would not be impossible though.

DoctorUnne

03-27-2012, 08:45 PM

I think we know why Latrin is on the side of Trayvon.

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/heatzone/files/2012/03/Heat-hoodies2.jpg

Parkbandit

03-27-2012, 08:45 PM

I'll bet you, PB, all the other gun people on this forum have gone their whole civilian lives without chasing after someone while carrying.

I'll take that bet.... let's say $2500?

Menos

03-27-2012, 08:48 PM

I'm exactly the same way. I actually refused to rent a Glock at the range because I simply didn't like the looks of it and from what others were saying about it here. My cousin the cop talked me into it.. I rented it and it shot better than anything else all day. The next day I bought one at a great deal.

Compensated barrels... quicker shooting for 2nd, 3rd, 4th shots.. less recoil.

I would have to think it would be easier to train to deal with the recoil than with a giant flash right in between my front and rear sight picture. Not to mention my inherent distrust of guns with holes right in the middle of the barrel. Holes only belong on the ends, you new fangled communist!

Parkbandit

03-27-2012, 08:48 PM

I don't own a gun and never have so maybe I'm not as familiar with concealed weapon permits as others are but it's to my understanding you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon anytime, anywhere except for certain places where firearms are strictly forbidden. I don't think there are clauses such as "You have to leave your firearm in your vehicle if you decide to follow someone."

Correct. Mostly government places.. but places like airports, any place that serves alcohol, etc.. guns are banned. The rules are different from state to state.

Back

03-27-2012, 08:49 PM

When walking the streets of Florida, it is your responsibility to look ahead to the possible consequences of your actions, engaging in an aggressive action, like SMASHING SOMEONE'S HEAD INTO THE SIDEWALK who was just following you is the exact type of thing you might want to think through before engaging that person while they might be legally armed. You are introducing the possibility of your ULTIMATE END. When you commit a violent crime, take some fucking responsibility for it.

There, fixed.

Only one person has stated that Trayvon slammed his head into the sidewalk and that is Zimmerman. There are no witnesses to this. I italicized the phrase because that is the phrase reportedly used by Zimmerman himself.

Menos

03-27-2012, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bobmuhthol
Since we like tossing in hypotheticals, I'm going to hypothetically say that if I was being physically bested by a person who was actively "SMASHING MY HEAD INTO A SIDEWALK," I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to reach for my gun, disable the safety, and shoot that person in the chest while my HEAD IS BEING SMASHED INTO A SIDEWALK.

I'm not sure how hard it would be either. I would imagine it would not be impossible though.

It likely had no manual safety (Glock, kahr, Kel-tec, and most of the common conceal carry guns have none). Even if it did, that is often actuated in the drawing motion. I cannot speculate as to what level of training the man had, obviously, but any familiarity with a firearm makes that process pretty quick.

Parkbandit

03-27-2012, 08:58 PM

I would have to think it would be easier to train to deal with the recoil than with a giant flash right in between my front and rear sight picture. Not to mention my inherent distrust of guns with holes right in the middle of the barrel. Holes only belong on the ends, you new fangled communist!

You don't even notice the flash to be honest.

Back

03-27-2012, 09:03 PM

Thinking about it more "slamming into the sidewalk" could simply mean when Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman in the nose that Zimmerman fell down and his head slammed into the sidewalk as a result of the fall.

Menos

03-27-2012, 09:08 PM

Only one person has stated that Trayvon slammed his head into the sidewalk and that is Zimmerman. There are no witnesses to this. I italicized the phrase because that is the phrase reportedly used by Zimmerman himself.

There are no witnesses saying you did not run up out of the darkness, punch Zimmerman and shoot Martin, yet I do not contend you should be arrested for murder as you do Zimmerman. The burden of proof in our system starts with the assumption of innocence. His story held together reasonably with much of it corroborated by people he could not reasonably be conspiring with. The simple fact that not every part of it was witnessed does not mean we can assume he his the guilty party.

Menos

03-27-2012, 09:09 PM

Back

03-27-2012, 09:11 PM

There are no witnesses saying you did not run up out of the darkness, punch Zimmerman and shoot Martin, yet I do not contend you should be arrested for murder as you do Zimmerman. The burden of proof in our system starts with the assumption of innocence. His story held together reasonably with much of it corroborated by people he could not reasonably be conspiring with. The simple fact that not every part of it was witnessed does not mean we can assume he his the guilty party.

Considering that a 17 year old kid is dead... I damn well think it needs to be examined thoroughly.

Edited for clarity.

Back

03-27-2012, 09:19 PM

And he was straddling him on the ground to what end then?

Reports say that Zimmerman was straddling Trayvon's dead body. One witness says he saw Trayvon above Zimmerman while beating him.

PURE SPECULATION

If Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman and Zimmerman slammed his head into the sidewalk from the fall Trayvon would still be standing above Zimmerman. Maybe laughing at the fat old man at that point.

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 09:22 PM

If Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman and Zimmerman slammed his head into the sidewalk from the fall Trayvon would still be standing above Zimmerman. Maybe laughing at the fat old man at that point.

You do realize your version here lends to the theory that Zimmerman was indeed the one crying, not Martin right? Zimmerman crying doesn't prove things happened the way Zimmerman says it did but it's beginning to look less and less like Zimmerman was the ruthless killer gunning down an innocent boy so scared for his life he was crying.

Jonty

03-27-2012, 09:30 PM

Menos

03-27-2012, 09:57 PM

Reports say that Zimmerman was straddling Trayvon's dead body. One witness says he saw Trayvon above Zimmerman while beating him.

PURE SPECULATION

If Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman and Zimmerman slammed his head into the sidewalk from the fall Trayvon would still be standing above Zimmerman. Maybe laughing at the fat old man at that point.

And your feel this speculation comports well with the witness description?

"I told him to stop and I was calling 911. And then when I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass."

Jarvan

03-27-2012, 10:07 PM

And your feel this speculation comports well with the witness description?

"I told him to stop and I was calling 911. And then when I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass."

Menos, How dare you try to confuse Back with -facts-. I do use facts loosely, as it is only an eye witness report, not Video documentation by Michael Moore.

Menos

03-27-2012, 10:08 PM

Why not?

I don't see an issue. I'd give them my address.

I did not mean in the exact circumstances here. I meant it in general as a response to everyone so shocked he didn't give his address when asked. Maybe it is my libertarian bent but I am disinclined to tell anyone official information like that about myself without good cause.

Parkbandit

03-27-2012, 10:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2X-R_PR6xs

Too soon?

Cardinal Cat Crater

03-27-2012, 10:28 PM

I think not giving your address to the police is totally counter-intuitive. If a police officer asked for mine, damn well certain I'd give it to him, ESPECIALLY if I 1) wasn't in the wrong, and 2) might be a witness to a crime.

And I'm fucking brown!

You have far too much faith in your government if you are willing to give up your rights so easily.

Oh, and what does being "brown" have to do with it? I feel that all people are created equal. Why bring your race into it?

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 10:29 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2X-R_PR6xs

Too soon?

Worst timing in movie history?

Menos

03-27-2012, 10:34 PM

You have far too much faith in your government if you are willing to give up your rights so easily.

Oh, and what does being "brown" have to do with it? I feel that all people are created equal. Why bring your race into it?

I am quite sure he said the brown part because I emphasized my whiteness. I did so because I think, for whatever reason, white people are less hassled by the po po.

Menos

03-27-2012, 10:35 PM

Worst timing in movie history?

Not sure this beats out the release of Boondock Saints with the Columbine massacre. Close maybe.

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 10:53 PM

Zimmerman shot Trayvon in cold blood and then slammed his own head and nose into some pavement. I'm not even qualifying that with 'speculation' or anything cause I know for sure it's what happened. Discuss.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting-witnesses/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Mary Cutcher was in her kitchen making coffee that night with her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla. The window was open, she said.
"We heard a whining. Not like a crying, boohoo, but like a whining, someone in distress, and then the gunshot," she said.
They looked out the window but saw nothing. It was dark.
They ran out the sliding glass door, and within seconds, they saw Zimmerman.
"Zimmerman was standing over the body with -- basically straddling the body with his hands on Trayvon's back," Cutcher said. "And it didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way. I didn't hear any struggle prior to the gunshot.
"And I feel like it was Trayvon Martin that was crying out, because the minute that the gunshot went off, the whining stopped."
The two women said they could not see whether Zimmerman was bruised or hurt. It was too dark.
"Selma asked him three times, 'what's going on over there?' " Cutcher said. "He looks back and doesn't say anything. She asks him again, 'everything OK? What's going on?' Same thing: looked at us, looked back. Finally, the third time, he said, 'just call the police.' "

Warriorbird

03-27-2012, 10:56 PM

Back

03-27-2012, 10:57 PM

And your feel this speculation comports well with the witness description?

"I told him to stop and I was calling 911. And then when I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass."

PURE SPECULATION

Why is Zimmerman driving to the store with a loaded gun?

Zimmerman chases Trayvon on foot. Zimmerman is not in the best shape. Trayvon is a 17 year old football player. So Trayvon easily loses Zimmerman. Winded, Zimmerman starts to return to his truck. Trayvon, seeing Zimmerman is obviously winded and out of shape, decides, foolishly, to confront the man chasing him. Trayvon comes up on Zimmerman and words are exchanged. Trayvon knows Zimmerman is over weight and winded so pops him one. Zimmerman falls flat on his back slamming his back into the grass and his head into the sidewalk. Witness one sees Trayvon standing over Zimmerman who is howling in pain and assumes Trayvon is beating him. Witness one goes to call 911. Trayvon laughs in Zimmerman's face. Zimmerman, who we already know has an axe to grind with who ever he means when he said "they always get away" in the 911 call gets majorly pissed, draws his gun, and shoots Trayvon square in the chest. Zimmerman gets up, straddles Trayvon's body, and puts his hands on Trayvon's back to asses his condition. Witness one sees this after he gets upstairs. Witness two who heard the whinning and gunshot asks is everything ok three times. Zimmerman, realizing that Trayvon is dead finally answers "call 911."

Cardinal Cat Crater

03-27-2012, 10:58 PM

I am quite sure he said the brown part because I emphasized my whiteness. I did so because I think, for whatever reason, white people are less hassled by the po po.

White people are hassled less by the cops. White people serve less prison time than other races for similar crimes.

In the US, every race or group is hassled by cops far too often. The militarization of our police forces is quite disturbing. A cop cannot just ask you for an ID or your address if you have done nothing wrong. Exercise your rights.

Warriorbird

03-27-2012, 11:00 PM

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 11:01 PM

I didn't hear any struggle prior to the gunshot.

How do you 'hear' a struggle?

Back

03-27-2012, 11:04 PM

Menos, How dare you try to confuse Back with -facts-. I do use facts loosely, as it is only an eye witness report, not Video documentation by Michael Moore.

The way you constantly try to categorize me into a group you dislike to marginalize my voiced opinion makes me think I am not the first nor the last person you've done this to and that you probably have quite a few less likable categories you put various other people you may disagree with into as well.

Tgo01

03-27-2012, 11:05 PM

A cop cannot just ask you for an ID or your address if you have done nothing wrong. Exercise your rights.

Whoa now. TheE was talking about in a situation where he (TheE) called the police to report a possible crime and the police asked for his address so they could contact him later if needed. He didn't say everyone should give any information to any police officer who asks for it.

Menos

03-27-2012, 11:17 PM

PURE SPECULATION

Why is Zimmerman driving to the store with a loaded gun?

The same reason 1.1 million Floridians either do or want the option to do?

Back

03-27-2012, 11:20 PM

The same reason 1.1 million Floridians either do or want the option to do?

I'd get the fuck out of Florida if that was the case.

Menos

03-27-2012, 11:20 PM

Eh. Barring drug possession and the death penalty our system is statistically less racist than many people assume.

I still do think Zimmerman is probably guilty of manslaughter. I don't know that any of us will ever know or it will ever be resolved properly in court.

I am still unsure if Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter, murder, or nothing. I think each is still very possible at this point, given what I know. My only argument here is with the people that think that third possibility is flat impossible. I am leaning away from an opinion of guilt as more information has come out, but I am not convinced of anything yet.

Menos

03-27-2012, 11:21 PM

I'd get the fuck out of Florida if that was the case.

You do know that many people in Florida are licensed to carry a concealed weapon, right? I do not imagine they spend the 117 bucks and go through the training with no intention of carrying.

Edit to add: renewal is only 65 bucks, forgot they changed that.

Edit again to add: only 910k of those had to pay the $117 fee. The rest had other fees or circumstances.

Back

03-27-2012, 11:23 PM

You do know that many people in Florida are licensed to carry a concealed weapon, right? I do not imagine they spend the 117 bucks and go through the training with no intention of carrying.

Had no idea. I live in the DC, MD, VA area. I have no idea who is carrying what except the people who carry it openly. IE cops, security.

Menos

03-27-2012, 11:40 PM

Had no idea. I live in the DC, MD, VA area. I have no idea who is carrying what except the people who carry it openly. IE cops, security.

Rest assured. Virginia is a reciprocity state so everyone from Florida may carry there. Ditto anyone with a permit from Alaska, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Utah, Wyoming, Minnesota, New Mexico, Washington and the US virgin islands.

Oh, you can tack on every retired or current law enforcement officer in the United States as well.

Plus whatever they have issued in state. My most recent data puts it at just north of 170,000 (better than 1 out of every 50 people including those under 18). That was in 1998 and you can almost assume a near 100% increase in those numbers. Florida has certainly seen a much higher grown than that in the last 12 years.

Edit to add that data was an extrapolation, I cannot find official numbers from Virginia, if they even report them.

Edit to add no way to know in DC, about 10 people can carry legally. I suspect several more do so illegal. :rofl:

Warriorbird

03-27-2012, 11:44 PM

Had no idea. I live in the DC, MD, VA area. I have no idea who is carrying what except the people who carry it openly. IE cops, security.

Just to be safe, think of everybody in the other Virginia as carrying. If we don't, we probably own.

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 11:51 PM

It's interesting. The stuff on Zimmerman's past and family is too.

http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/

Good link, WB. Let's quote it here:

Did George Zimmerman have help from his father, a retired judge, in clearing his name in three separate arrests?
That’s the question that’s being asked now that more information on Trayvon Martin’s 28-year-old killer is being revealed. Robert Zimmerman, a former Orange County magistrate judge, recently wrote a letter to The Orlando Sentinel defending his son, who’s been dragged through the mud for shooting the unarmed 17-year-old last month. In the letter, the senior Zimmerman asks people not to jump to conclusions and insists that his son didn’t follow the young boy home as he walked through their gated community.

All three of those arrests, however, were mysteriously closed with no semblance of charges for the Florida resident. So how was someone with a violent past including that of battery against an officer able to carry a 9 mm handgun?

From the Orange County, FL Circuit Court Clerk of the Court Records page: [link to myclerk.myorangeclerk.com]
Record Count: 4
Search By: Party Exact Name: on Party Search Mode: Name Last Name: Zimmerman First Name: George Case Status: Closed Date Filed On or After: 01/01/2005 Date Filed On or Before: 01/01/2006 Sort By: Filed Date
Case Number Citation Number Style/Defendant Info Filed/Location/Judicial Officer Type/Status Charge(s)
2005-CF-009525-A-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
10/05/1983
07/18/2005
Div 10
OKane, Julie H
Criminal Felony
Closed
CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITH VIOLENCE
BATTERY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER
2005-MM-010436-A-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
10/05/1983
07/18/2005
Orlando
Miller, W Michael
Misdemeanor
Closed
CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITHOUT VIOLENCE
2005-DR-012980-O
ZUAZO, VERONICA vs. ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE M
08/09/2005
Div 44
44, TBA
Domestic Violence
Closed – SRS
2005-DR-013069-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE M vs. ZUAZO, VERONICA A
08/10/2005
Div 46
White, Keith F
Domestic Violence
Closed – SRS

Zimmerman is a spoiled entitled murderer that assaults the police but his daddy gets him out of it.

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT SPECULATION, IT IS THE TRUTH:

Zimmerman planned all along to kill Trayvon and was so mad that another black kid had recently moved to the neighborhood that he was watching for him to leave for days and then SET HIM UP and then ANTAGONIZED him and then SHOT HIM DEAD and SELF-MUTILATED and his Dad made sure no questions were asked THIS IS FOR SURE WHAT HAPPENED. RIP TRAY TRAY. WEAR UR HOODIES.

Menos

03-27-2012, 11:53 PM

Just to be safe, think of everybody in the other Virginia as carrying. If we don't, we probably own.

Hah, I found more. Maryland is a pretty pathetic 47k or .8%. WV is only 60k as of 2008 (3.3%).

Warriorbird

03-27-2012, 11:54 PM

Good link, WB. Let's quote it here:

Zimmerman is a spoiled entitled murderer that assaults the police but his daddy gets him out of it.

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT SPECULATION, IT IS THE TRUTH:

Zimmerman planned all along to kill Trayvon and was so mad that another black kid had recently moved to the neighborhood that he was watching for him to leave for days and then SET HIM UP and then ANTAGONIZED him and then SHOT HIM DEAD and SELF-MUTILATED and his Dad made sure no questions were asked THIS IS FOR SURE WHAT HAPPENED. RIP TRAY TRAY. WEAR UR HOODIES.

Not quite where I'd go with it. I don't think he planned it at all. Does that seem like the sort of wannabe cop who could snap while performing neighborhood watch duties though?

It's certainly a bit more serious than empty weed bag possession.

Menos

03-27-2012, 11:55 PM

Good link, WB. Let's quote it here:

Zimmerman is a spoiled entitled murderer that assaults the police but his daddy gets him out of it.

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT SPECULATION, IT IS THE TRUTH:

Zimmerman planned all along to kill Trayvon and was so mad that another black kid had recently moved to the neighborhood that he was watching for him to leave for days and then SET HIM UP and then ANTAGONIZED him and then SHOT HIM DEAD and SELF-MUTILATED and his Dad made sure no questions were asked THIS IS FOR SURE WHAT HAPPENED. RIP TRAY TRAY. WEAR UR HOODIES.

TROLL, TROLL!
:tumble: :tumble: :tumble:

http://forum.i3d.net/attachments/offtopic-english/943227833d1305709183-english-spam-thread-not-sure-if-troll-just-very-stupid-28n1299498207760-29.jpg

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 11:58 PM

TROLL, TROLL!
:tumble: :tumble: :tumble: :tumble:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/131/351/eb6.jpg?1307463786

Eh--I don't think my scenario is any different than the 250 posts made today that kept repeating over and over and over again that Trayvon had "slammed" Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk American History X-style. It sounded just as fucking retarded to me to parrot his words back as some sort of true story.

HOODIES 2MORROW GUISE.

Ryvicke

03-27-2012, 11:59 PM

Oh and I also can't get enough of how Back keeps posting hilarious narratives but always begins them with the ALL-CAPS: "SPECULATION!!!" everytime. I do lol.

Latrinsorm

03-28-2012, 12:02 AM

Actually I think the 'kid stuff' is suggesting that there is a 'cooling off' period for lack of a better phrase where the guy you're chasing can't legally attack you after a certain amount of time has passed. "No man, he attacked the guy a day later, obviously he was just being petty." "He attacked the guy less than 5 minutes after the guy stopped chasing him, he's perfectly within his rights to do so." Really?

Could this whole thing have been avoided if Zimmerman didn't chase Martin at all? Yes.

Could this whole thing have been avoided if Martin chose not to get 'angry' at being chased and confronted Zimmerman (if we're going by Zimmerman's story)? Yes.

It works both ways there.This sounds to me a lot like if I drive around a neighborhood at 90 MPH and you don't get out of the way. If you just got out of the way, I wouldn't have hit you! Works both ways.
One more time... following is not a physical assault.I have never said it was. I have said that it caused a confrontation that otherwise would not have occurred, because Martin was fleeing. If you are unarmed and you are not in the same place I am, you cannot possibly get in a fight with me. You cannot possibly reach for my gun. You cannot possibly knock me to the ground.
Angry/scared/defensive is not the same as defending yourself from a physical assault. Are you really suggesting that anyone running away who is then followed has a right to try and kill the person doing it in "self defense" absent any actual physical aggression?

Also worth noting IF, and I include that if specifically, Zimmernman's account is true, he was following a man in his neighborhood who was willing to smash the head of anyone who gave slim justification into the pavement so that the police could catch up to him. Sounds like he took responsibility for his community, a lot closer to heroic than childish to me.If you knew you had done nothing wrong, you noticed I was chasing after you, and you noticed I had a gun... would you be willing to do violence to me? If not, what the hell would you be waiting for?

Tgo01

03-28-2012, 12:04 AM

This sounds to me a lot like if I drive around a neighborhood at 90 MPH and you don't get out of the way. If you just got out of the way, I wouldn't have hit you! Works both ways.

You just trolling now.

Jarvan

03-28-2012, 12:06 AM

Not a Troll Menos, Just an idiot. tho they do seem very similar.

Menos

03-28-2012, 12:09 AM

Not a Troll Menos, Just an idiot. tho they do seem very similar.

I thought he was being deliberately obtuse as a joke, hence my response with the the laughing faces. Now with his followups, I am not so sure.

Delias

03-28-2012, 12:41 AM

Sorry gang, I checked out for like three or four pages. You guys solve the case yet?

Rinualdo

03-28-2012, 12:42 AM

Sorry gang, I checked out for like three or four pages. You guys solve the case yet?

Yes, but you have to go to the golf course to find the answer.

Tgo01

03-28-2012, 12:43 AM

Sorry gang, I checked out for like three or four pages. You guys solve the case yet?

Colonel Mustard did it, in the Library with the noose.

Delias

03-28-2012, 12:45 AM

Yes, but you have to go to the golf course to find the answer.

Then I will never know.

Jarvan

03-28-2012, 12:58 AM

Delias

03-28-2012, 01:04 AM

Menos

03-28-2012, 01:20 AM

Sorry gang, I checked out for like three or four pages. You guys solve the case yet?

We have decided to saw Zimmerman in half. We will put the left side of his body in Jail and set the other side free as a bird for ever.

Menos

03-28-2012, 01:27 AM

Damn, hit enter before I added my name to the rep. Sent you some green Delias in support of any Chappelle related postings.

TheEschaton

03-28-2012, 02:11 AM

If anything there should be a comedy routine about how any black kid who gets killed better be squeaky clean, lest his killer become the heroic victim who was protecting the neighborhood.

Hell, maybe tie it into OJ. I'm not saying OJ was innocent - but that bitch Nicole sure was a slut, amirite?!?

Jarvan

03-28-2012, 02:11 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkQKOBiHyNU

1:40

Love Chappelle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg4u-jDHcsM

One of my Favorites. Specially 5:50 On. And at 11:45 there a specific part that Back and Latrinsorm should know VERY well.

Delias

03-28-2012, 02:13 AM

Jonty

03-28-2012, 02:18 AM

I did not mean in the exact circumstances here. I meant it in general as a response to everyone so shocked he didn't give his address when asked. Maybe it is my libertarian bent but I am disinclined to tell anyone official information like that about myself without good cause.

Oh, I also meant in general. But I guess I'd only give them my address if it was relevant. I would think if I had to call 911 it'd be serious enough to give them my information in case they needed to follow up with me about the call. But if I just called for police for something minor (not 911) that had nothing to do with me, I probably wouldn't.

Back

03-28-2012, 09:21 AM

Stanley Burrell

03-28-2012, 09:40 AM

I realize some of you think this was only a lowly 911 operator barely a step above a telemarketer in terms of authority but considering the seriousness of the situation and the supposed willingness to cooperate with local law enforcement its a major red flag why Zimmerman wouldn't give his address.

Considering how many times he called them since January of this year... 45 times as of February 26th means he called them 5.6 times a week its surprising he didn't say "Hey its George."

Back, this is from personal experience, but people tied into the PD Dept. have a lot of code calls on file. It is because, in my best experience and keen experience about stuff, that they know the law and how to avoid conflict in this manner, not as a manipulation, but because protocol is already in place even if a BEAT isn't out. It's good instinct, I've seen it a lot more on a positive scale than I have a negative one. It's not some inside favor system as opposed to the folks, IMHO, being well-informed on how to act on their own actions cautiously.

Let me be very frank in saying that this does not in any way tie into Zimmerman's case. But cop-phobia is based around these sorts of assumptions. And I have tremendous respect for Dispatch following up on any and all scenarios at tremendous capability in the most law-abiding fashion you can imagine.

Edit: This is not tied into this thread's uproar regarding the subject matter or the title specifics.

Back

03-28-2012, 09:53 AM

Back, this is from personal experience, but people tied into the PD Dept. have a lot of code calls on file. It is because, in my best experience and keen experience about stuff, that they know the law and how to avoid conflict in this manner, not as a manipulation, but because protocol is already in place even if a BEAT isn't out. It's good instinct, I've seen it a lot more on a positive scale than I have a negative one. It's not some inside favor system as opposed to the folks, IMHO, being well-informed on how to act on their own actions cautiously.

Let me be very frank in saying that this does not in any way tie into Zimmerman's case. But cop-phobia is based around these sorts of assumptions. And I have tremendous respect for Dispatch following up on any and all scenarios at tremendous capability in the most law-abiding fashion you can imagine.

Edit: This is not tied into this thread's uproar regarding the subject matter or the title specifics.

My own personal experiences with 911 operators are similar and I am grateful for it. I've never had to deal with a person having a seizure before and my operator told me things to do and look for while we were waiting for the ambulance.

Latrinsorm

03-28-2012, 11:24 AM

-being a Complete Ass, or maybe normal, may be hard to tell for some of you-

yes, we figured it out.

Trayvon beat up Zimmerman, found the guy, and with a stroke of brilliance shot himself in the chest to frame a fat white man for murdering a skinny black kid so as to start a race riot.

--- or no, we haven't, except for Back and latrin who have decided he Murdered the boy in cold blood and want him to pay ---0 for 5, hombre. I've only said "reckless endangerment" about a thousand times, how you interpret that as "murdered in cold blood" is beyond me.
You just trolling now.I just don't get how people are equating an effect to a cause.

I chase after you because I'm an idiot - my fault.
You get mad/scared/whatever because I chase after you - how is this anything but my fault? How is it your responsibility to be a Vulcan?

Ryvicke

03-28-2012, 11:35 AM

I chase after you because I'm an idiot - my fault.
You get mad/scared/whatever because I chase after you - how is this anything but my fault? How is it your responsibility to be a Vulcan?

This right here is the absolute only thing that needs to be said.

Sadly I think the idiot gun owners brains think more like: I have a gun and I'm going to chase after this guy and he's going to totally understand how powerful I am and not fight back and probably beg me for mercy because I HAVE A GUUUUUUUUUN.

Sadly, in this case tubby daddy's boy Zimmerman seems to have taken a few (assuming they're not self-inflicted) shots to the dome. Not getting the respect every gun owner should rightfully had, he had to cap a black kid. No big, police don't even bring in dudes that cap black kids.

Atlanteax

03-28-2012, 12:01 PM

Personally, I'm a bit curious to see if individuals' stances (including mine) shift over the upcoming few weeks as the circumstances of this tragedy become more solidified ... whether leaks continue or a full release of evidence / corroborated testimony is done.

I'll state that I originally figured Zimmerman to be a trigger-happy and excessively overzealous NW-er who committed manslaughter (at the minimum) until I read the 911 transcript and other details involving his injured state ... which indicated that he did not have control of the situation and was instead 'jumped' by Travyon, leading to a situation that was indeed more in-line with self-defense.

Tgo01

03-28-2012, 12:17 PM

I just don't get how people are equating an effect to a cause.

I chase after you because I'm an idiot - my fault.
You get mad/scared/whatever because I chase after you - how is this anything but my fault? How is it your responsibility to be a Vulcan?

I don't think a very good analogy to prove your point is to say "if I'm driving down your neighborhood at 90 MPH I wouldn't have hit you if you had just gotten out of my way."

You honestly don't see why it would put someone in the wrong for them to pick a fight with someone who was chasing them but had stopped? I could understand your argument if you were saying in mid pursuit Martin said fuck this I'm not running anymore and stopped to confront Zimmerman.

Ryvicke

03-28-2012, 12:48 PM

I don't think a very good analogy to prove your point is to say "if I'm driving down your neighborhood at 90 MPH I wouldn't have hit you if you had just gotten out of my way."

How in the world are you coming to this??

It's about initiating an action. Zimmerman watched, followed and called the police on someone, thus beginning a conflict with that person. End. That is the action, that is the initial spark. From there he assumes responsibility for the possibilities that come his way.

It has no possible correlation to driving 90mph down a street and saying 'HEY IF YOU'RE IN MY WAY, SCREW YOU.'

Tgo01

03-28-2012, 12:54 PM

It has no possible correlation to driving 90mph down a street and saying 'HEY IF YOU'RE IN MY WAY, SCREW YOU.'

Exactly my point. See Latrin? Even Ryvicke agrees with me that was a terrible analogy and he's otherwise agreeing with you on this point.

Ryvicke

03-28-2012, 12:59 PM

Exactly my point. See Latrin? Even Ryvicke agrees with me that was a terrible analogy and he's otherwise agreeing with you on this point.

Who the fuck cares if his analogy isn't perfect? You're the one defending an illegal immigrant with ties to Mexican drug cartels who killed an innocent teenager and assaulted a cop in 2005 and then self-inflicted sidewalk wounds so he could go kill every black kid he sees in his neighborhood.

It's like, hey guess what?? If you don't like black people in your neighborhood go try to make some more money so you can live with white people that will be suspicious of the hispanic in their neighborhood. YOUKNOW RIGHT?

haha what sound does a sprinkler make?

YOU'RE STUPID.

Jonty

03-28-2012, 01:10 PM

I would probably lean more to agreeing with Tgo01. The problem is, I'd have to take Zimmerman's word and believe that he actually stopped searching for the kid (for a decent amount of time) and that the kid approached Zimmerman from behind and confronted him. He obviously has motive to skew the details and the girlfriend's account is different. So, I'll reserve my opinion until there are more details.

Also, if we believe what has been reported about Zimmerman's account, it says absolutely nothing about the time frame between when he supposedly stopped searching and decided to go back to his vehicle to when Martin supposedly approached Zimmerman from behind. It could have been 2 seconds for all we know.

We know based on the 911 calls that this all happened within a matter of 1-2 minutes. There is the unknown amount of time that Zimmerman searched for Martin, and then there is a decent amount of time of arguing/screaming/crying that you can hear on the 911 calls.

I don't know if it's reasonable to expect Martin to think that Zimmerman was no longer following/searching/threatening/whatever.

Jarvan

03-28-2012, 01:12 PM

How in the world are you coming to this??

It's about initiating an action. Zimmerman watched, followed and called the police on someone, thus beginning a conflict with that person. End. That is the action, that is the initial spark. From there he assumes responsibility for the possibilities that come his way.

It has no possible correlation to driving 90mph down a street and saying 'HEY IF YOU'RE IN MY WAY, SCREW YOU.'

So Zimmerman assumes responsibilities for this, then if Martin had been carrying an uzi, and opened fire on Zimmerman missing, and killing 3 kids, That would be Zimmerman's fault as well, since he "chased" Martin?

Your just insane if you think "chasing" someone makes you responsible for anything that happens afterward. All I can say thank GOD this is your twisted mind's opinion, and not law.

Latrinsorm

03-28-2012, 01:26 PM

Exactly my point. See Latrin? Even Ryvicke agrees with me that was a terrible analogy and he's otherwise agreeing with you on this point....it's the principle. :)
You honestly don't see why it would put someone in the wrong for them to pick a fight with someone who was chasing them but had stopped? I could understand your argument if you were saying in mid pursuit Martin said fuck this I'm not running anymore and stopped to confront Zimmerman.Again, heat of the moment. What you're proposing is that said moment immediately stops when the instigator decides it does, as though his intention has some sort of telekinetic impact on the quarry's adrenaline level or limbic system. That makes no sense, would be hugely impractical to police, and puts the burden of restraint on the quarry.

Also again, it's not like Martin came back a week later, or any other period of time where we could reasonably expect him to have cooled down. This is a well-established principle in our legal system, but it's also plain common sense. Be reasonable. Don't run around like you're on Law and Order and you won't end up like you're on Southland.

Ryvicke

03-28-2012, 01:29 PM

Don't run around like you're on Law and Order and you won't end up like you're on Southland.

OH SNAP RYAN ATWOOD

Jarvan

03-28-2012, 02:02 PM

...it's the principle. :)Again, heat of the moment. What you're proposing is that said moment immediately stops when the instigator decides it does, as though his intention has some sort of telekinetic impact on the quarry's adrenaline level or limbic system. That makes no sense, would be hugely impractical to police, and puts the burden of restraint on the quarry.

Also again, it's not like Martin came back a week later, or any other period of time where we could reasonably expect him to have cooled down. This is a well-established principle in our legal system, but it's also plain common sense. Be reasonable. Don't run around like you're on Law and Order and you won't end up like you're on Southland.

I may not be as versed in the law as you seem to be, but if "chasing" someone is the main factor in all this, wouldn't you think the cops know that, and he would have been arrested by now?

And if you turn around and say that's why he should be arrested, this case has been high profile for over a week and the Justice department still hasn't figured out your case breaking point of law?

Man.. our entire Justice system must be stupid as hell if they are not as smart as you.

Atlanteax

03-28-2012, 02:16 PM

I may not be as versed in the law as you seem to be, but if "chasing" someone is the main factor in all this, wouldn't you think the cops know that, and he would have been arrested by now?

And if you turn around and say that's why he should be arrested, this case has been high profile for over a week and the Justice department still hasn't figured out your case breaking point of law?

Man.. our entire Justice system must be stupid as hell if they are not as smart as you.

Latrinsorm probably has never handled a gun in his life.

Ryvicke

03-28-2012, 03:22 PM

Latrinsorm probably has never handled a gun in his life.

lol latrin is stupid touching guns makes you know shit

Showal

03-28-2012, 03:31 PM

lol latrin is stupid touching guns makes you know shit

Have you ever touched a gun? Clearly not if you don't understand the revelations that you experience with a gun in your hands.

Latrinsorm

03-28-2012, 03:58 PM

I may not be as versed in the law as you seem to be,I have said, on more than one occasion, that I am neither a lawyer nor well-versed in Florida state law. 0 for 6.

TheEschaton

03-28-2012, 04:06 PM

So Zimmerman assumes responsibilities for this, then if Martin had been carrying an uzi, and opened fire on Zimmerman missing, and killing 3 kids, That would be Zimmerman's fault as well, since he "chased" Martin?

Your just insane if you think "chasing" someone makes you responsible for anything that happens afterward. All I can say thank GOD this is your twisted mind's opinion, and not law.

Nobody is saying this, at all. You're throwing out wild hypotheticals at the very extreme and using them to disprove the middle case. That's a strawman. If Martin ESCALATED the force necessary, then yes, he's responsible for escalated force. Don't be a jackass.

What's being argued here is that 1) there wasn't a cooling off period, 2) potentially Zimmerman didn't go back to his car, 3) potentially Zimmerman WASN'T jumped from behind, and 4) Martin used reasonable force to defend himself from someone who was searching for him - and that ZIMMERMAN escalated it to an inappropriate level.

Your reading comprehension is fail.

Also, I don't know how Atlanteax has managed to read somewhere that Zimmerman was FOR SURE jumped from behind and FOR SURE headed back to his vehicle, since that's only been said by Zimmerman himself, yet he can readily disbelieve the girlfriend, who is no less self-interested, who gives a conflicting account of the events. Fair and balanced bro.

TheEschaton

03-28-2012, 04:07 PM

To be clear, Latrin is arguing a further case that 2 and 3 don't even matter, that if he was going back to his car AND Martin jumped him from behind, Martin would 4) still be using reasonable force to defend himself from someone who was searching for him. I don't agree with that sentiment.

Parkbandit

03-28-2012, 04:11 PM

Celephais

03-28-2012, 04:19 PM

lol latrin is stupid touching guns makes you know shit

Have you ever touched a gun? Clearly not if you don't understand the revelations that you experience with a gun in your hands.

I'm going to have to agree with Showal on this one.

Dennis: Describe what you feel.
Charlie: I feel like, uh, I feel focused, and I feel badass and just, um ... badass! You know?
Dennis: I think he's got it, Mac.
Mac: Yes, he does.
Charlie: Got what?
Mac: Charlie, my boy, you've got the gun fever.

Ryvicke

03-28-2012, 04:20 PM

I'm going to have to agree with Showal on this one.

Dennis: Describe what you feel.
Charlie: I feel like, uh, I feel focused, and I feel badass and just, um ... badass! You know?
Dennis: I think he's got it, Mac.
Mac: Yes, he does.
Charlie: Got what?
Mac: Charlie, my boy, you've got the gun fever.

lol, fucking great show. I need to start rewatching every episode again.

Tgo01

03-28-2012, 04:24 PM

Also, I don't know how Atlanteax has managed to read somewhere that Zimmerman was FOR SURE jumped from behind and FOR SURE headed back to his vehicle, since that's only been said by Zimmerman himself, yet he can readily disbelieve the girlfriend, who is no less self-interested, who gives a conflicting account of the events. Fair and balanced bro.

I can't find an actual account of the girlfriend's story. Whether I read about it in a story or listen to the actual interview with her via phone the reporter always just says 'but she says suddenly Martin was cornered.' Is that just the reporter telling us what he thinks happened or is that coming from the girlfriend herself?

For example this article (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017).

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

And this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jhes6BlFf8) of the audio recording.

I don't understand why they would leave the most crucial part of the interview out of the story and instead it's just some random moron filling in the blanks for us.

Back

03-28-2012, 04:44 PM

http://moonbattery.com/george-zimmerman_trayvon-martin_media-bias.jpg

Hmm.

The person in that photo is not the Trayvon that was killed in Florida. The person in that photo is another Trayvon from Georgia.

Ryvicke

03-28-2012, 05:10 PM

The person in that photo is not the Trayvon that was killed in Florida. The person in that photo is another Trayvon from Georgia.

PB posted something blindly ganked from a conservative source without knowing fuckall about it? Well I reckon the Fox News will issue a correction shortly.

Androidpk

03-28-2012, 05:15 PM

Jarvan

03-28-2012, 09:31 PM

Nobody is saying this, at all. You're throwing out wild hypotheticals at the very extreme and using them to disprove the middle case. That's a strawman. If Martin ESCALATED the force necessary, then yes, he's responsible for escalated force. Don't be a jackass.

What's being argued here is that 1) there wasn't a cooling off period, 2) potentially Zimmerman didn't go back to his car, 3) potentially Zimmerman WASN'T jumped from behind, and 4) Martin used reasonable force to defend himself from someone who was searching for him - and that ZIMMERMAN escalated it to an inappropriate level.

Your reading comprehension is fail.

Also, I don't know how Atlanteax has managed to read somewhere that Zimmerman was FOR SURE jumped from behind and FOR SURE headed back to his vehicle, since that's only been said by Zimmerman himself, yet he can readily disbelieve the girlfriend, who is no less self-interested, who gives a conflicting account of the events. Fair and balanced bro.

Actually, my reading comprehension is just fine. Latrine stated clearly that Zimmerman's having chased Martin means that what resulted is purely Martin's fault, as he didn't HAVE to chase him.

That being said, cooling period or not, If I chase you, and you stop and ASSAULT me - since NO ONE has claimed that Martin was struck or had any wounds but what was shown - Which one of us is in the wrong? Me cause I chased you causing you to strike me? If so, lets try it one day so I can laugh my ass off as you get hauled away by the police.

One, the girlfriends testimony may or may not be valid, one of the biggest things about it so far to ME is that she says something like.. "he must have been pushed, cause his headset came out". Now, that sounds like speculation, unless she is a forensic scientist that did her thesis on the sound a headset makes when it comes out and possible causes.

Second, IF Martin started the fight, do you HONESTLY think the distraught girlfriend is going to admit to it? .. "My boyfriend then said "Stop following me you fucking scum" and punched him in the face, and started to beat his head against the ground, and then was brutally shot for no reason" just doesn't sound as good.

Third, My point this ENTIRE time is that some stupid shits on here feel that Zimmerman should be arrested and strung up right this minute. Since NONE of them are police, lawyers, or Justice officials, I find it REALLY hard to believe that the ENTIRE justice system at this point is in the wrong for "innocent before guilty" -in which case by Florida law he CAN NOT be arrested or detained- rather then their, he is in the wrong round him up.

I am sure Back wanted him dead or in prison the second he heard the story, screw the facts.

As for Latrine.. well.. if their idea of law and facts were ever to come to pass, ever prison in the country would be full of people who instigated an assault.

As for you TheE, I haven't seen anything specific that leads me to believe your in the string him up category.

Let the Justice system work and determine what transpired. Stop calling for blood.

One last thing.. as for the who black teen, must be "suspicious" thing, in his call to 911 Zimmerman at first didn't even notice he was black. He was Overzealous.

Look at it this way.. if you saw a caddy roll up to a store, and 4 guido looking guys get out, whats the first thing that pops into your mind?

If you see a white guy with tattoos on his neck, hands, and arms, wearing a wife beater, carrying a can of beer, what would be your first impression?

It may be an ass of me to say, but first impressions are caused by a REASON. Doesn't make it right, just makes it how it is. Maybe if society in general stopped promoting them in TV shows, Movies, Music and what not, we wouldn't have them as much.

Now, if I had seen the Picture of Martin with the teeth bling first, I would have been like, Zimmerman must have killed a hoodlum/gangster. I doubt Martin was a gangster, otherwise, Zimmerman would likely already be dead. But you have to admit, a picture like that does lead one to see an impression that may not be true.

Parkbandit

03-28-2012, 09:45 PM

PB posted something blindly ganked from a conservative source without knowing fuckall about it? Well I reckon the Fox News will issue a correction shortly.

Actually, I used google image search... it's not that hard. If you could peel yourself off mediamatters.org and moveon.org, you would find that there are other websites out there.

But then.. where would you get your constant stream of stupidity that you could regurgitate here?

Back

03-28-2012, 09:54 PM

Actually, I used google image search... it's not that hard. If you could peel yourself off mediamatters.org and moveon.org, you would find that there are other websites out there.

But then.. where would you get your constant stream of stupidity that you could regurgitate here?

Says the guy who regurgitated shit from his constant stream of stupidity...

TheEschaton

03-28-2012, 10:12 PM

Actually, my reading comprehension is just fine. Latrine stated clearly that Zimmerman's having chased Martin means that what resulted is purely Martin's fault, as he didn't HAVE to chase him.

That being said, cooling period or not, If I chase you, and you stop and ASSAULT me - since NO ONE has claimed that Martin was struck or had any wounds but what was shown - Which one of us is in the wrong? Me cause I chased you causing you to strike me? If so, lets try it one day so I can laugh my ass off as you get hauled away by the police.

One, the girlfriends testimony may or may not be valid, one of the biggest things about it so far to ME is that she says something like.. "he must have been pushed, cause his headset came out". Now, that sounds like speculation, unless she is a forensic scientist that did her thesis on the sound a headset makes when it comes out and possible causes.

Second, IF Martin started the fight, do you HONESTLY think the distraught girlfriend is going to admit to it? .. "My boyfriend then said "Stop following me you fucking scum" and punched him in the face, and started to beat his head against the ground, and then was brutally shot for no reason" just doesn't sound as good.

Third, My point this ENTIRE time is that some stupid shits on here feel that Zimmerman should be arrested and strung up right this minute. Since NONE of them are police, lawyers, or Justice officials, I find it REALLY hard to believe that the ENTIRE justice system at this point is in the wrong for "innocent before guilty" -in which case by Florida law he CAN NOT be arrested or detained- rather then their, he is in the wrong round him up.

I am sure Back wanted him dead or in prison the second he heard the story, screw the facts.

As for Latrine.. well.. if their idea of law and facts were ever to come to pass, ever prison in the country would be full of people who instigated an assault.

As for you TheE, I haven't seen anything specific that leads me to believe your in the string him up category.

Let the Justice system work and determine what transpired. Stop calling for blood.

One last thing.. as for the who black teen, must be "suspicious" thing, in his call to 911 Zimmerman at first didn't even notice he was black. He was Overzealous.

Look at it this way.. if you saw a caddy roll up to a store, and 4 guido looking guys get out, whats the first thing that pops into your mind?

If you see a white guy with tattoos on his neck, hands, and arms, wearing a wife beater, carrying a can of beer, what would be your first impression?

It may be an ass of me to say, but first impressions are caused by a REASON. Doesn't make it right, just makes it how it is. Maybe if society in general stopped promoting them in TV shows, Movies, Music and what not, we wouldn't have them as much.

Now, if I had seen the Picture of Martin with the teeth bling first, I would have been like, Zimmerman must have killed a hoodlum/gangster. I doubt Martin was a gangster, otherwise, Zimmerman would likely already be dead. But you have to admit, a picture like that does lead one to see an impression that may not be true.

For one thing, I am a lawyer, as a second point, I don't see why you consider Zimmerman's account of being pretty much blindsided as he was walking back to the car any more credible than the girlfriend's account. The girlfriend obviously isn't an expert witness, but surely she can give an account of what she heard.

As for any stereotypes that may or may not exist in a person - fine, whatever. The point is, you cannot legally ACT on those stereotypes as if they are fact, nor WOULD I automatically call the police because I think "Oh man, those guys look like mafioso". I definitely wouldn't follow them.

Delias

03-28-2012, 10:16 PM

For one thing, I am a lawyer, as a second point, I don't see why you consider Zimmerman's account of being pretty much blindsided as he was walking back to the car any more credible than the girlfriend's account. The girlfriend obviously isn't an expert witness, but surely she can give an account of what she heard.

As for any stereotypes that may or may not exist in a person - fine, whatever. The point is, you cannot legally ACT on those stereotypes as if they are fact, nor WOULD I automatically call the police because I think "Oh man, those guys look like mafioso". I definitely wouldn't follow them.

I also know the law, ipso facto, what we have here is a clear cut case of the suspension of habeas corpus. I demand satisfaction.

Warriorbird

03-28-2012, 11:11 PM

I also know the law, ipso facto, what we have here is a clear cut case of the suspension of habeas corpus. I demand satisfaction.

http://cdn2.mamapop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/sexy-judge.jpg

Rinualdo

03-28-2012, 11:41 PM

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 12:03 AM

Video of Zimmerman at police station that night. He looks pristine.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c1#/video/us/2012/03/29/piers-bts-martin-zimmerman-arrest-video.cnn

Drew

03-29-2012, 12:07 AM

Video of Zimmerman at police station that night. He looks pristine.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c1#/video/us/2012/03/29/piers-bts-martin-zimmerman-arrest-video.cnn

I thought the guy wasn't arrested. He's in cuffs in the video.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 12:08 AM

So... any of you idiots parroting his statement about his broken nose and bleeding head for the last 2 days want to discuss? I mean--listening to the posts here I was certain that guy was going to have some black eyes, taped up nose, skull crusty with blood. I mean dude was getting fucking slammed against a sidewalk... sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 12:08 AM

Video of Zimmerman at police station that night. He looks pristine.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c1#/video/us/2012/03/29/piers-bts-martin-zimmerman-arrest-video.cnn

Zimmerman isn't limping and isn't blind in one eye! Okay I'm convinced now, he's guilty.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 12:09 AM

I thought the guy wasn't arrested. He's in cuffs in the video.

I dunno man! Mystery!

Jonty

03-29-2012, 12:26 AM

Wow, didn't even finish watching the video yet.... But I don't see any broken nose, you can clearly see that there are no laceration, let alone ANY cuts on the back of his head, and there is no blood on him. Not from a broken nose, nor from the blood that would have gotten on him by shooting Trayvon at a very close range or if Trayvon was on top of him beating him.....

Jonty

03-29-2012, 12:32 AM

Zimmerman isn't limping and isn't blind in one eye! Okay I'm convinced now, he's guilty.

But apparently he's a liar.

TheEschaton

03-29-2012, 12:41 AM

Cuffs are standard procedure for anyone who accepts responsibility for a shooting.

What's also standard procedure is testing a shooter for inebriation, but the police DIDN'T do that, so who the fuck knows.

TheEschaton

03-29-2012, 12:43 AM

Also, the family's lawyer seems like a tool.

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 12:53 AM

But apparently he's a liar.

The video doesn't prove much. The police said Zimmerman was treated by paramedics at the scene, surely they cleaned up any blood there might have been on his head or nose. Also what exactly do you think a broken nose would look like? Do you really think you would necessarily be able to tell if someone had a broken nose from a video like that? Also from what I have read the police officer said Zimmerman's back appeared to be wet and covered in grass, he did not say there were grass stains. There is no way we can tell from a video whether or not his back was wet and if it was just grass that could have been cleaned off by the time of that video also.

Also note Zimmerman doesn't look anywhere near 250 pounds in that video that people have been claiming he is.

I'll admit the video certainly isn't good news for Zimmerman but it hardly proves his story is false.

Warriorbird

03-29-2012, 12:55 AM

The video doesn't prove much. The police said Zimmerman was treated by paramedics at the scene, surely they cleaned up any blood there might have been on his head or nose. Also what exactly do you think a broken nose would look like? Do you really think you would necessarily be able to tell if someone had a broken nose from a video like that? Also from what I have read the police officer said Zimmerman's back appeared to be wet and covered in grass, he did not say there were grass stains. There is no way we can tell from a video whether or not his back was wet and if it was just grass that could have been cleaned off by the time of that video also.

Also note Zimmerman doesn't look anywhere near 250 pounds in that video that people have been claiming he is.

I'll admit the video certainly isn't good news for Zimmerman but it hardly proves his story is false.

Also.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/martin.asp

Though the "gold" grill one apparently is.

And neither Miller or Zimmerman seem 250ish like the claims either direction.

Drew

03-29-2012, 12:57 AM

Having had my nose broken several times I can tell you that after the initial bleeding (if any) it often looks exactly like a normal nose. You'll get some black eyes a day or two later.

Warriorbird

03-29-2012, 01:02 AM

Also interesting. The lead investigator wanted a manslaughter charge. The state's attorney overruled him, then removed himself from the case.

At this point, once again, I doubt whether we'll ever know the whole truth here.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 01:03 AM

This video shows a different shot in the police station in a hallway that is much better lit and much closer to his head, not a thing to see. No wonder we haven't seen any pictures of his injuries, there were none.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46886931#46886931

It also has a different person talking as the lawyer for the Martin family, who seems somewhat better than the lawyer in the first video.

Anyhow, sorry Tgo, but you just sound like a racist toolbag right now. If you're going to make a hundred posts over two days talking about how this guy was beaten within an inch of his life and then see this video and and say "shit doesn't prove anything" it's pretty obvious you just made up your mind and don't give a shit what comes out from this point forward.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 01:07 AM

Having had my nose broken several times I can tell you that after the initial bleeding (if any) it often looks exactly like a normal nose. You'll get some black eyes a day or two later.

I've seen 2 broken noses. Bandaged immediately. From mayo clinic site:

A soft gauze pad will be placed in the bleeding nostril and should stop the nosebleed completely. The doctor or ENT usually removes the packing in 2-3 days.
Do not attempt to remove this packing.
The doctor will sometimes prescribe antibiotics and pain medication while the packing is in place.

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 01:13 AM

Anyhow, sorry Tgo, but you just sound like a racist toolbag right now. If you're going to make a hundred posts over two days talking about how this guy was beaten within an inch of his life and then see this video and and say "shit doesn't prove anything" it's pretty obvious you just made up your mind and don't give a shit what comes out from this point forward.

I would certainly love to see where I ever made the claim that Zimmerman was beaten within an inch of his life. I would also love to see where I ever said that I had made up my mind that I believe Zimmerman's story 100%. Between you and me I am the one with the most open mind here Ryvicke, not you.

Jonty

03-29-2012, 01:15 AM

The video doesn't prove much.

It proves there are no laceration, or even any cuts on the back of his head. His head is shaved and he turned around several times. The light shined on his head and there are no signs if any cuts or lacerations. So, I'd say the bashing his head into the pavement story goes out the window.

The police said Zimmerman was treated by paramedics at the scene, surely they cleaned up any blood there might have been on his head or nose. Also what exactly do you think a broken nose would look like? Do you really think you would necessarily be able to tell if someone had a broken nose from a video like that?

You're right. We can't see for sure whether or not his nose is broken from that video. But he does look to be in good condition to me. Certainly doesn't look like he was being beat to death. But that's just my opinion.

There's also no blood on his shirt. Which I'd expect if he shot someone who was on top of him and beating him. But I guess the jacket may have been zipped up at the time. Can't really tell if there is blood on his jacket because it's black and red.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 01:29 AM

I would certainly love to see where I ever made the claim that Zimmerman was beaten within an inch of his life. I would also love to see where I ever said that I had made up my mind that I believe Zimmerman's story 100%. Between you and me I am the one with the most open mind here Ryvicke, not you.

This didn't take long. Probably a few more.

Martin bashing his head against the sidewalk doesn't prove Martin was a 'stone cold killer' but I don't think Zimmerman could possibly know that at that time.

The police documented the injuries he had and he was treated for them but he didn't go to the hospital until the next day. Surely he is not the first person to think his injuries aren't that bad but then decide to go to the hospital the next day. Also there is an eyewitness that says he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman which would also support his argument of Martin bashing his head against the pavement.

I really have no clue what happened in this case, but everything about this thread, from the title of it to PB posting the false pictures to you guys hanging on every word of the report from Zimmerman just annoyed the fuck out of me. I understand you're just being contrary to a large group of people that demographically and politically you all disagree with, but y'all sound like a fucking lynchmob.

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 01:35 AM

You're being pretty disingenuous Ryvicke if you just quote part of my posts.

He said that's if Zimmerman's story is true. Martin bashing his head against the sidewalk doesn't prove Martin was a 'stone cold killer' but I don't think Zimmerman could possibly know that at that time.

I know you've been pretty upset lately with all of the 'what if' questions but that doesn't change the fact that I clearly prefaced that with 'if Zimmerman's story is true.'

The police documented the injuries he had and he was treated for them but he didn't go to the hospital until the next day. Surely he is not the first person to think his injuries aren't that bad but then decide to go to the hospital the next day. Also there is an eyewitness that says he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman which would also support his argument of Martin bashing his head against the pavement.

I don't see how this proves I said Zimmerman was beaten to within an inch of his life or that I said I believed Zimmerman's story. Once again I made it pretty clear that the eyewitness seeing Martin on top of Zimmerman would support Zimmerman's argument that Martin was beating him, I didn't say it proved it.

Jonty

03-29-2012, 01:42 AM

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 01:42 AM

You're being pretty disingenuous Ryvicke if you just quote part of my posts.

I know you've been pretty upset lately with all of the 'what if' questions but that doesn't change the fact that I clearly prefaced that with 'if Zimmerman's story is true.'

I don't see how this proves I said Zimmerman was beaten to within an inch of his life or that I said I believed Zimmerman's story. Once again I made it pretty clear that the eyewitness seeing Martin on top of Zimmerman would support Zimmerman's argument that Martin was beating him, I didn't say it proved it.

lol, good catch. That first line bothered me.

Well I'm glad to hear that your mind isn't made up, I look forward to your incredibly reasonable and measured posts on this topic in the future.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 01:44 AM

Never mind, I just watched the video posted by Ryvicke. Zimmerman walks towards the camera in a well lit room. Judging from this and the video from the garage, his clothes look pretty darn clean to me. I don't see blood anywhere, including his jacket.

Yeah I'd love to see a little Dexter-action on how the blood splatter on his clothing should look when you shoot someone that's beating on you from above (presence of actual blood seemingly mandatory). This could be a real fun trial.

EDIT: oh also, fun guessing game: did the cops actually take those clothes into evidence? I'm guessing no.

Androidpk

03-29-2012, 01:46 AM

Maybe he changed his clothes???

DUNDUND DUDNNNN!!!!11

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 01:48 AM

Maybe he changed his clothes???

DUNDUND DUDNNNN!!!!11

MAYBE--although all the 911 calls do mention his red jacket.

MAYBE HE HAS TWO RED JACKETS, THE COPS CUFFED HIM, UNCUFFED HIM SO HE COULD CHANGE CLOTHES AND THEN RECUFFED HIM.

Warriorbird

03-29-2012, 01:48 AM

Maybe he changed his clothes???

DUNDUND DUDNNNN!!!!11

After a shooting? That'd be something.

Jonty

03-29-2012, 01:49 AM

Maybe he changed his clothes???

DUNDUND DUDNNNN!!!!11

:lol:

"Excuse me mister officer. I know that I just had my nose broken, head repeatedly bashed into the pavement, and shot a guy who was on top of me. But before you bring me into the station for my statement, can I go change my clothes first? Pretty please? :)"

Drew

03-29-2012, 01:52 AM

I've seen 2 broken noses. Bandaged immediately. From mayo clinic site:

I used to box and have had my nose broken many times. You can put the cotton in your nose if you want. I don't understand what you mean by bandaged? Some sort of bandaid on the nose?

Androidpk

03-29-2012, 01:54 AM

http://www.elephantmantours.com/media/shop/b-trendyboy/b1.nosebandage-big.jpg

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 02:00 AM

I used to box and have had my nose broken many times. You can put the cotton in your nose if you want. I don't understand what you mean by bandaged? Some sort of bandaid on the nose?

The one I saw was from an elbow in basketball, the other was from a fight.

Both got the taped up clotting bandage under the nose, one guy got the x over the bridge immediately, the other guy had the x over his bridge the next day.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/brokennose.jpg

I'll totally defer to you saying it's not always the case if you are a BOXER.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 02:01 AM

http://www.elephantmantours.com/media/shop/b-trendyboy/b1.nosebandage-big.jpg

Hipsters bandage their wounds in a penile fashion.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 02:04 AM

And just cause I care about all of my favorite gun-owning PC'ers: don't shoot your faces off like this guy:

http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/27/10888074-virginia-man-gets-extensive-face-transplant-after-gun-accident

Androidpk

03-29-2012, 02:07 AM

I suddenly like my face a whole lot more.

#goingtohell

TheEschaton

03-29-2012, 02:15 AM

Those videos look pretty bad for Zimmerman.

Tenlaar

03-29-2012, 02:19 AM

I cannot believe I just read this entire thread. I need to go to sleep now, but a few things popped out at me. As usual, let me preface with none of this is facts, just my thoughts, blah de blah.

1) I don't like Martin being referred to as a kid all the time. If it had gone down differently and Martin was the one that ended up in cuffs, he would be tried as an adult.

B) I don't like the automatic assumption that a teenager with a possible history of violence and/or robbery/burglary wasn't out to do anything wrong just because he didn't have a weapon of his own.

Third, the call me back thing. Looking at the area on google maps and reading the transcript, it honestly seemed more like an I can just guide them through the neighborhood as opposed to trying to explain to a third party sitting in a room miles away how to get through here so that she can then try and explain that to the responding officers kind of thing. It does, however, make me wonder if there was in fact an effort made at calling him back during those two minutes.

And finally, again looking at the google map, it does not seem unreasonable at all for Martin to go down a path between buildings, Zimmerman to follow for a brief moment until the operator said he didn't need to and Martin was no longer visible, finish the call, and be in a position to be taken by surprise from any number of angles. All without ever going more than a couple hundred feet from his truck, if that.

All that said, I don't know how it went down, and some stuff still just doesn't add up right. Most recently, and possibly most notably, is where was all the blood in the videos of him.

Is there in fact some law that would keep him from changing clothes? If I happened to have a change of clothes in my truck and had some random person's blood all over me combined with possible open wounds of my own, the cops would have to physically stop me from getting that shit off.

Jonty

03-29-2012, 02:21 AM

This one looks bad for the PD:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46886931#46886996

Walter Zalisko is commenting on the police station video. He brought up a pretty good point. The officers put their paws all over the jacket contaminating potential evidence.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 02:41 AM

B)I don't like the automatic assumption that a teenager with a possible history of violence and/or robbery/burglary wasn't out to do anything wrong just because he didn't have a weapon of his own.

lolwut? Zimmerman is the one with a documented history of resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer, Trayvon Martin was never convicted of any burglaries or assault, as far as we know he was suspended from school for truancy, writing "wtf" with spraypaint on a locker and having an empty marijuana baggy.

Right, let's definitely not assume that Trayvon wasn't actually casing his neighborhood for some possible robberies, that's just common sense that he obviously might have been doing that.

Jarvan

03-29-2012, 04:18 AM

lolwut? Zimmerman is the one with a documented history of resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer, Trayvon Martin was never convicted of any burglaries or assault, as far as we know he was suspended from school for truancy, writing "wtf" with spraypaint on a locker and having an empty marijuana baggy.

Right, let's definitely not assume that Trayvon wasn't actually casing his neighborhood for some possible robberies, that's just common sense that he obviously might have been doing that.

Technically, Zimmerman was never convicted either. So.. yeah.

Also, you forgot to mention Martin's the extremely likely stolen goods and break in tool in his backpack as well. not sure if FL is a medical Marijuana state or not, tho at 17 he wouldn't apply anyway, but Isn't Marijuana still a crime?

Granted, none of that has much bearing on this case really. Since he wasn't climbing out a window, or even peering into one, but still. Bringing up one person's past without the other is wrong.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 08:37 AM

Both got the taped up clotting bandage under the nose, one guy got the x over the bridge immediately, the other guy had the x over his bridge the next day.

I've bolded the important part here.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 10:27 AM

I've bolded the important part here.

Okay or you could bold that both of them got the clotting bandages immediately. It doesn't matter, there will never be a doctor testifying that he had a broken nose, just like there was never one picture that the cops took of his beaten up face cause it doesn't exist.

From all accounts (his father's last night being the most recent), this guy is having a mental breakdown since a week ago when the shit hit the fan on this, if there were exonerating evidence it would've leaked to take the heat off of him and his family.

Menos

03-29-2012, 12:05 PM

This didn't take long. Probably a few more.

I really have no clue what happened in this case, but everything about this thread, from the title of it to PB posting the false pictures to you guys hanging on every word of the report from Zimmerman just annoyed the fuck out of me. I understand you're just being contrary to a large group of people that demographically and politically you all disagree with, but y'all sound like a fucking lynchmob.

I have prefaced everything along those lines with if his story turns out to be true, for the simple reason that we do not know all of the facts. Just like I said he would be guilty if such and such or this and that. I am quite comfortable on my side of the innocent until proven guilty line, which I would like to point out is exactly the opposite end of the lynching spectrum from the "He is a murderer he should be in jail because I think he hates black people/is a wannabe cop/followed someone therefore is guilty side".

I think he did it so put him in jail is not how the law nor how justice works, that is how mob rule works.

You are pissed because of one mistaken picture? Are you also pissed that a man's life has been threatened after the clearly misleading 5 year old pictures of Martin were posted? If you are so, I have not seen your outrage at those calling for violence against Zimmerman absent proof of his guilt. You have to admit that plastering the world with photos of a 12 year old sure changes the narrative over the tattooed and muscle bound teenager with a gold grill. One makes any notion of justification a bad joke, the other makes us actually wonder what happened.

Edit to Add: What the hell do you mean demographically disagree with?. I have no idea what anyone's demographic is on the PC, besides that we all probably played GS at some point. I am neither a black teenager nor a spanish banker (or whatever the hell he is), although I was born and lived half my life less than 20 miles from where this incident happened.

Latrinsorm

03-29-2012, 12:31 PM

If so, lets try it one day so I can laugh my ass off as you get hauled away by the police.You are confusing what's right and wrong with what's legal and illegal. :)
I thought the guy wasn't arrested. He's in cuffs in the video.I know a guy who got cuffed once when he got pulled over, because he said "officer, I have a gun beneath the seat that I am licensed to carry". Everything turned out fine, and he wasn't arrested for anything. I don't know if Eschaton is right that it's standard procedure, but it seems to me like a reasonable precaution to take.
lolwut? Zimmerman is the one with a documented history of resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer, Trayvon Martin was never convicted of any burglaries or assault, as far as we know he was suspended from school for truancy, writing "wtf" with spraypaint on a locker and having an empty marijuana baggy.There was one part where he got in trouble for having a "burglary tool": a large screwdriver. So to recap: screwdriver = tool that is a burglary implement, gun = tool that is completely innocuous and requires no responsibility whatsoever.
From all accounts (his father's last night being the most recent), this guy is having a mental breakdown since a week ago when the shit hit the fan on this, if there were exonerating evidence it would've leaked to take the heat off of him and his family.Like WB, I've always thought the most likely explanation was Zimmerman thought of himself as a bona fide police officer, recklessly got in way over his head, made a terrible mistake. I have no doubt that he feels terrible about it, but unfortunately this hasn't yet caused him to come clean. Domineering father much, huh?

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 12:42 PM

I have prefaced everything along those lines with if his story turns out to be true, for the simple reason that we do not know all of the facts. Just like I said he would be guilty if such and such or this and that. I am quite comfortable on my side of the innocent until proven guilty line, which I would like to point out is exactly the opposite end of the lynching spectrum from the "He is a murderer he should be in jail because I think he hates black people/is a wannabe cop/followed someone therefore is guilty side".

I think he did it so put him in jail is not how the law nor how justice works, that is how mob rule works.

You are pissed because of one mistaken picture? Are you also pissed that a man's life has been threatened after the clearly misleading 5 year old pictures of Martin were posted? If you are so, I have not seen your outrage at those calling for violence against Zimmerman absent proof of his guilt. You have to admit that plastering the world with photos of a 12 year old sure changes the narrative over the tattooed and muscle bound teenager with a gold grill. One makes any notion of justification a bad joke, the other makes us actually wonder what happened.

Edit to Add: What the hell do you mean demographically disagree with?. I have no idea what anyone's demographic is on the PC, besides that we all probably played GS at some point. I am neither a black teenager nor a spanish banker (or whatever the hell he is), although I was born and lived half my life less than 20 miles from where this incident happened.

First: tattooed and muscled? You realize the one picture that was released of a kid with his shirt off flipping the bird is not him right? I just went through about 15 websites with pictures of him and none of them show a tattooed and muscled kid.

The pictures are problematic, obviously, because most of them are provided by the family and they are undated; however, it's pure speculation to say they are "5 years old" or "1 month old."

I can agree with you that a "mob mentality" is bad, but I don't see this as mob mentality at all. Without public pressure this case would have NEVER been investigated further. There are mistakes that are made in the public sector that ONLY are able to be righted by the press and the public. I don't want to see some vigilante kill George Zimmerman, but I do want to see the proper course of action be taken. I don't think there's any argument to be made that the police did enough in this case.

And honestly, I don't think the pictures of Martin are "clearly misleading." Kids grow up fast, and the ones I'm looking at of him in his football uni don't look much different than the ones of him and some old black dude kissing him ont he side of the head. We're talking about a family whose kid died and no one was doing fuck-all about it and they were frustrated. If it was my kid I'd fucking give the press the most angelic pictures I could find and please god publish this story as soon as you possibly can.

Jonty

03-29-2012, 12:57 PM

Technically, Zimmerman was never convicted either. So.. yeah.

And the cases were mysteriously closed without reason. Yeah.... They obviously had enough evidence to charge him with resisting arrest, resisting arrest with violence, and domestic violence. In one of the videos, it sad that he reached a plea deal in one of the cases, and he had to go to some sort of program. But then there was some sort of report that his participation was not satisfactory. (I watched the video last night, but I can't find it now.) He tried to sign up for some civilian police department program and had to write a statement explaining his actions against the officers in the resisting arrest cases.

Also, you forgot to mention Martin's the extremely likely stolen goods and break in tool in his backpack as well. not sure if FL is a medical Marijuana state or not, tho at 17 he wouldn't apply anyway, but Isn't Marijuana still a crime?

Granted, none of that has much bearing on this case really. Since he wasn't climbing out a window, or even peering into one, but still. Bringing up one person's past without the other is wrong.
I'm fine with bringing up someone's past as long as it's done in a civil manner and that it's relevant. The alleged burglary tools may have some relevance, but the marijuana certainly does not. And I'd say Zimmerman's violent arrest history may have some relevance, as well.

I've said this before, but what I am glad about is that Trayvon's current pictures were released. It really annoys me when they plaster a picture of a 12 year old everywhere to gain sympathy.

Menos

03-29-2012, 01:06 PM

First: tattooed and muscled? You realize the one picture that was released of a kid with his shirt off flipping the bird is not him right? I just went through about 15 websites with pictures of him and none of them show a tattooed and muscled kid.

I linked to the article and posted them in this thread.

You looked real hard right, from memory I did a google of "Martin social media pictures". First hit.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=247584

http://www.wtsp.com/images/640/360/2/assetpool/photogallery/247584/Trayvon%20Twitter%20Picture.jpg

http://www.wtsp.com/images/640/360/2/assetpool/photogallery/247584/485309_353539611355071_343061182402914_901566_1867 000820_n_1_540x405.jpg

http://www.wtsp.com/images/640/360/2/assetpool/photogallery/247584/Trayvon%20Tattoo%20Right%20ArmMySpace.JPG

Edit to add so you can explain how this one isn't misleading.
http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/files/2012/03/Trayvon-Martin-George-Zimmerman-1.jpg

Atlanteax

03-29-2012, 01:08 PM

Never mind, I just watched the video posted by Ryvicke. Zimmerman walks towards the camera in a well lit room. Judging from this and the video from the garage, his clothes look pretty darn clean to me. I don't see blood anywhere, including his jacket.

Same, I saw the same video from a different link.

Zimmerman's credibility is damaged.

I would really had liked to have seen any pre-parademic-cleanup pictures of himself, as that would absolutely validate (or invalidate) his testimony of about getting his head/face smashed by Trayvon.

In the meantime, I was in a nasty car accident a couple of years ago when a car hit me in the driver side ... I was able to move around well actually in the immediate hours afterwards ... but then over the next few days the left side of my body, from lower abdomen to thigh turned black & blue. (and hospital pictures, being the next day, may not work as it could be claimed that he purposely injured himself later to show wounds)

BUT, if I had my head smashed against the pavement multiple times that would put me in fear of my life ... I would think I would be staggering a bit now and then, while he seems able to stay fully composed in the video.

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 01:14 PM

but I don't see this as mob mentality at all.

Really? You don't consider the New Black Panther party putting a 'bounty' on Zimmerman's head as mob mentality? You don't see Spike Lee twittering an address to his 250k followers that he thought belonged to George Zimmerman as mob mentality? Yes, I'm sure Spike Lee just tweeted the address so people would know where to go to get Zimmerman's side of the story. Also to note the address Spike Lee tweeted didn't even belong to this George Zimmerman, it belonged to an elderly couple who have a son named William George Zimmerman that lived with them 20 years ago at that address. They had to temporarily move out of their home by the way thanks to that tweet, no mob mentality there!

Menos

03-29-2012, 01:22 PM

So the police canvased the area for witnesses and found them, took Martin Zimmerman to the station and questioned him, which part of the investigation didn't happen again?

Edit to correct the name.

Jonty

03-29-2012, 01:22 PM

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 01:23 PM

Okay or you could bold that both of them got the clotting bandages immediately. It doesn't matter, there will never be a doctor testifying that he had a broken nose, just like there was never one picture that the cops took of his beaten up face cause it doesn't exist.

You know this evidence doesn't exist? Awesome.

You sure have speculated all over the place in this thread, haven't you?

From all accounts (his father's last night being the most recent), this guy is having a mental breakdown since a week ago when the shit hit the fan on this, if there were exonerating evidence it would've leaked to take the heat off of him and his family.

Fantastic. Your knowledge of this case is astounding... really.

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 01:23 PM

So the police canvased the area for witnesses and found them, took Martin to the station and questioned him, which part of the investigation didn't happen again?

Err what?

Jonty

03-29-2012, 01:23 PM

So the police canvased the area for witnesses and found them, took Martin to the station and questioned him, which part of the investigation didn't happen again?

The part where they questioned Martin? :rofl:

Warriorbird

03-29-2012, 01:24 PM

So the police canvased the area for witnesses and found them, took Martin to the station and questioned him, which part of the investigation didn't happen again?

It happened and potentially detrimentally to the actual uniformed officers.

The head investigator suggested manslaughter. A state's attorney said no charges and then removed himself from the case.

Menos

03-29-2012, 01:27 PM

It happened and potentially detrimentally to the actual uniformed officers.

The head investigator suggested manslaughter. A state's attorney said no charges and then removed himself from the case.

So the state's attorney (the guy who is change of deciding what should be charged) looks at the evidence and said nothing. After a huge media storm he decided to let a third party look into it so as to avoid any appearance of impropriety. I'm with you so far, when does the damning stuff show up?

Warriorbird

03-29-2012, 01:34 PM

So the state's attorney (the guy who is change of deciding what should be charged) looks at the evidence and said nothing. After a huge media storm he decided to let a third party look into it so as to avoid any appearance of impropriety. I'm with you so far, when does the damning stuff show up?

All of the leaked witness statements. "Arrest." and immediately trying to see if Trayvon had cases on him. Potentially doctored police report. Events "happening" that seem to have not at all happened. The question of impropriety with a state's attorney who knows Zimmerman's Dad choosing not to charge.

It all clearly needs to be investigated.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 01:34 PM

The part where they questioned Martin? :rofl:

Just because he didn't answer questions doesn't mean he wasn't asked questions.

Too soon?

Menos

03-29-2012, 01:41 PM

The part where they questioned Martin? :rofl:

Edit to Add: Meant to say Zimmerman

At the scene and then taken to the station and questioned more (hence the video of them taking him in and the statements to that effect). You have intimate knowledge that they somehow just sat there chewing the fat with him a while and then let him go, absent questions about the death that just happened? Knowledge outside of accusations made by folks using this for political hay.

The damnable thing of it is, violence is a real issue with plenty of innocent people being killed. I guess those stories are not as good for the narrative than the "white Hispanic murdering the innocent black boy"

http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2012/03/no-outrage-over-st-patricks-day-weekend-chicago-shootings.html

CHICAGO - While the nation's eyes are focused on Florida's Trayvon Martin tragedy, former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is angry that no media seems to care about the number of black children being killed on Chicago's streets every day. There were 49 shootings on Chicago streets over the St. Patrick's Day weekend. Why no outrage?

“Why not be angry about the wholesale murder that goes on in the streets of Newark and Chicago?” he asked. “Why isn’t somebody angry about that six-year-old girl who was killed on her steps last weekend in a cross fire when two gang members in Chicago start shooting at each other? Why is there no outrage about that?”

It is not like there isn't plenty of police problems to go along with those stories too.

http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/

An eight-month Chicago Tribune investigation of 200+ police shootings going back 10 years found that within hours of a police shooting, the police department convenes hastily-assembled, wagon-circling “roundtables” of law enforcement officials where police and witnesses are questioned but not sworn or recorded, where the officers involved are allowed to confer to get their stories straight before being questioned, and where the inevitable conclusion is always that the shooting was justified. From there, broader, show-investigations begin. Key witnesses go uninterviewed. Forensic evidence is ignored. And the shooting officer is inevitably exonerated.

The Tribune found that even when information is later made public that contradicts the findings of internal investigations, the police refuse to reopen a case.

I guess when the politician in charge is Rahm Emanuel, no justice is needed.

Warriorbird

03-29-2012, 01:43 PM

I love former NAACP leaders. They're such great tokens.

http://jeffwinbush.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/edgerton.jpg

EDIT:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2000/summer/confederates-in-black

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 01:45 PM

Really? You don't consider the New Black Panther party putting a 'bounty' on Zimmerman's head as mob mentality? You don't see Spike Lee twittering an address to his 250k followers that he thought belonged to George Zimmerman as mob mentality? Yes, I'm sure Spike Lee just tweeted the address so people would know where to go to get Zimmerman's side of the story. Also to note the address Spike Lee tweeted didn't even belong to this George Zimmerman, it belonged to an elderly couple who have a son named William George Zimmerman that lived with them 20 years ago at that address. They had to temporarily move out of their home by the way thanks to that tweet, no mob mentality there!

I'm sorry, why are you jumping ahead two weeks? Of course that shit is retarded as fuck. Even if it was the right address that is an absolutely ridiculous thing for Spike Lee to do.

There's no greater evidence than what is happening right now that shows how important and valuable public/press outcry can be. We're already finding out details that, had there been no outcry--had the Martin family been left to affect change on their own--would have never been known, talked about or anything else. Probably happens every day right? Some cop somewhere doesn't care enough about some hood with tattoos, tags him as a John Doe and says done deal.

Hopefully they'll think twice. It's about being accountable. If I fuck up something and it makes my boss look bad (a serious possibility in my line of work) I fully expect someone to ask me tough questions.

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 01:50 PM

At the scene and then taken to the station and questioned more (hence the video of them taking him in and the statements to that effect). You have intimate knowledge that they somehow just sat there chewing the fat with him a while and then let him go, absent questions about the death that just happened?

I think you're missing the fact you typed "Martin" instead of "Zimmerman."

Latrinsorm

03-29-2012, 01:51 PM

I linked to the article and posted them in this thread.

You looked real hard right, from memory I did a google of "Martin social media pictures". First hit.Tattoed, yes. Muscled? Noooot really.
At the scene and then taken to the station and questioned more (hence the video of them taking him in and the statements to that effect). You have intimate knowledge that they somehow just sat there chewing the fat with him a while and then let him go, absent questions about the death that just happened? Knowledge outside of accusations made by folks using this for political hay.The joke is you put "Martin" instead of "Zimmerman".

Tisket

03-29-2012, 01:52 PM

hence

Stop misusing this word. I know it sounds somewhat scientific but, since you are referencing an event that has already occurred, the word you should be using instead is "thus".

This is a pet peeve of mine that has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand. Don't even get me started on "thence".

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 01:54 PM

I love former NAACP leaders. They're such great tokens.

I love the current NAACP leaders. They're such great agitators.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 01:55 PM

I guess when the politician in charge is Rahm Emanuel, no justice is needed.

NYC has been in constant uproar relating to police shit for the 7 years I've lived here.

I guess when the politician in charge is Michael Bloomberg, no justice is needed.

Warriorbird

03-29-2012, 01:56 PM

I love the current NAACP leaders. They're such great agitators.

I think you ben jealous.

Menos

03-29-2012, 01:59 PM

Chicago I might add treats self defense (or even owning a gun) like this:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-elderly-man-shoots-burglar-in-englewood-both-charged-20120326,0,3175723.story

An 80-year-old tavern owner in Englewood believes it's "unjust" that he is facing charges after shooting a burglar, but believes he will prevail in court.

Anita Dominique, head of the block club in the neighborhood, said she has known Wright for more than 30 years. "He is a pillar of our community,” she said. “What does it say to me and other senior citizens that we will be arrested if we defend ourselves?"

In less than three months, 100 people (or which I am sure some are minorities) have been murdered in Chicago.

In the same time frame Austin had 6 murders.

Jacksonville had 16.

The entire State of Vermont (not even a license needed to carry) had 7, only 1 with a firearm, in all of 2010. That is the most recent data I have. No one keeps a running tally on numbers that low.

Jarvan

03-29-2012, 02:00 PM

I'm sorry, why are you jumping ahead two weeks? Of course that shit is retarded as fuck. Even if it was the right address that is an absolutely ridiculous thing for Spike Lee to do.

There's no greater evidence than what is happening right now that shows how important and valuable public/press outcry can be. We're already finding out details that, had there been no outcry--had the Martin family been left to affect change on their own--would have never been known, talked about or anything else. Probably happens every day right? Some cop somewhere doesn't care enough about some hood with tattoos, tags him as a John Doe and says done deal.

Hopefully they'll think twice. It's about being accountable. If I fuck up something and it makes my boss look bad (a serious possibility in my line of work) I fully expect someone to ask me tough questions.

I thought you were a Libtard? if you fucked up at work, wouldn't it have been society's fault?

OMG, are you saying you would take PERSONAL responsibility for something?

How Conservative of you.

Menos

03-29-2012, 02:02 PM

I think you're missing the fact you typed "Martin" instead of "Zimmerman."

Oh, My mistake. Please sub in Zimmerman.

Jarvan

03-29-2012, 02:02 PM

Chicago I might add treats self defense (or even owning a gun) like this:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-elderly-man-shoots-burglar-in-englewood-both-charged-20120326,0,3175723.story

In less than three months, 100 people (or which I am sure some are minorities) have been murdered in Chicago.

In the same time frame Austin had 6 murders.

Jacksonville had 16.

The entire State of Vermont (not even a license needed to carry) had 7, only 1 with a firearm, in all of 2010. That is the most recent data I have. No one keeps a running tally on numbers that low.

It's it odd that the cities with the toughest weapons laws are usually the ones with the highest murder rates? and gun violence rates.

You would think the criminals would realize that they shouldn't have guns.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 02:05 PM

The entire State of Vermont (not even a license needed to carry) had 7, only 1 with a firearm, in all of 2010. That is the most recent data I have. No one keeps a running tally on numbers that low.

Holy fuck, Menos. Please tell me you're not comparing the state of Vermont to Chicago and then using the one variable as the ease it takes to carry a concealed handgun to show how owning handguns reduces crime. That would be pretty fucking stupid.

Just for starters:

Population of Vermont: 626,431
Pop per square mile, Vermont: 67.9

Population of Chicago: 2,695,598
Pop per square mile, Chicago: 11,842

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 02:09 PM

I think you ben jealous.

Both of your assumptions in this post are wrong.

Menos

03-29-2012, 02:10 PM

NYC has been in constant uproar relating to police shit for the 7 years I've lived here.

I guess when the politician in charge is Michael Bloomberg, no justice is needed.

Another quality politician who seems to be on the same page with Rahm.

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/home/home.shtml

I guess it is alot easier to thumb your nose at justice when the victims are unarmed.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 02:12 PM

There's no greater evidence than what is happening right now that shows how important and valuable public/press outcry can be. We're already finding out details that, had there been no outcry--had the Martin family been left to affect change on their own--would have never been known, talked about or anything else. Probably happens every day right? Some cop somewhere doesn't care enough about some hood with tattoos, tags him as a John Doe and says done deal.

I can't argue with you.. but you have to ask yourself why is there so much outcry in this specific case? Why is Sharpton and Jackson getting themselves involved.. there's a common cause to everything these two professional agitators involve themselves into... can you guess it?

You're being played.. because it's so easy to play people like you.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 02:15 PM

I can't argue with you.. but you have to ask yourself why is there so much outcry in this specific case? Why is Sharpton and Jackson getting themselves involved.. there's a common cause to everything these two professional agitators involve themselves into... can you guess it?

You're being played.. because it's so easy to play people like you.

Sharpton and Jackson are involved because dude is black and they are black activists. Is that a secret? Do those two guys ever claim to be anything other than black activists? Has anyone thought these two guys were relevant at any point in the last decade? You're setting up strawmen.

Menos

03-29-2012, 02:30 PM

Sharpton and Jackson are involved because dude is black and they are black activists. Is that a secret? Do those two guys ever claim to be anything other than black activists? Has anyone thought these two guys were relevant at any point in the last decade? You're setting up strawmen.

We have also seen the President and the Congressional Black Caucus come out with statements. I think they are relevant. Did the Chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee call it a hate crime when the 13 year old was doused in gas and fire in Kansas City while his assailants said 'This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, Blackie'." Oh wait, was that what they said?

http://www.kmbc.com/news/30572405/detail.html

They all commented on each of the thousands of incidents where African Americans were killed by other African American teens, right? They are "under attack" after all.

http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/03/29/creators_oped

Menos

03-29-2012, 02:32 PM

https://twitter.com/#!/KillZimmerman

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 02:38 PM

We have also seen the President and the Congressional Black Caucus come out with statements. I think they are relevant. Did the Chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee call it a hate crime when the 13 year old was doused in gas and fire in Kansas City while his assailants said 'This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, Blackie'." Oh wait, was that what they said?

http://www.kmbc.com/news/30572405/detail.html

They all commented on each of the thousands of incidents where African Americans were killed by other African American teens, right? They are "under attack" after all.

http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/03/29/creators_oped

Menos, dude--if you're going to act so appalled when I say that the group of you is "demographically opposed" to the mob then stop posting racist bullshit and just own up to it.

Delias

03-29-2012, 02:42 PM

No rational number comes out of Chicago. It's all fucked up- typical monday headlines are like "10 dead, 40 wounded in weekend violence". Honestly the gun violence shocks me far less than when a group of kids with bats jump a girl walking home from the bar and shit like that.

Menos

03-29-2012, 02:44 PM

Menos, dude--if you're going to act so appalled when I say that the group of you is "demographically opposed" to the mob then stop posting racist bullshit and just own up to it.

Exactly what part of pointing out how Democrats care about the "racist" story and not the thousands of other deaths makes me a racist? Or are you referring to my insinuation that racism is only interesting to those same people when it is against an African American? I am appalled by all of the violence, not just that against one group by one other specific group. Can you say the same about them?

Edit for typo.

Edit to add: Wouldn't ignoring the crimes based on the race of who did it be by definition racist?

Which bothers you more, ten thousand people killed in what is 100% surely murder or 1 person killed in possible self defense by someone of another race? I know where I stand on that one.

Edit to add: I did not bother pulling up the real gang violence numbers against African Americans, but I am sure they are more than 1 person.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 02:53 PM

Menos

03-29-2012, 03:00 PM

You really believe that the only reason they involved themselves in this tragedy is because the victim is black?

Wow.. you really are easy to play.

I am quite sorry to say this is the truth. I really don't think any amount of discussion is going to get him to do anything but come up with new explanations as to why Zimmerman is a racist murderer and how we are all potentially the same. He may be or he may not be, but I do not think either matters to him. I wish he could spend some time objectively viewing his own feelings about race instead of playing projectionist.

Oh well, I tried and had some fun along the way trying to form logical arguments as to why it might not be the case.

Menos

03-29-2012, 03:08 PM

About that video.

http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/03/abc-news-doctors-zimmerman-video-to-pedal-false-story-in-trayvon-martin-case/

The Daily Caller has investigated the ABC News claim that police closed circuit television of George Zimmerman being brought to the Sanford, FL police station, in the news network claims that Zimmerman shows no sign of injury, in what appears to be an intentional effort by the network to cast doubt on Zimmerman’s accounting of events. Zimmerman claims he was forced to shoot high school football player Trayvon Martin after Martin knocked him to the ground and began slamming his head into the ground.

ABC News blatantly lied about what the video showed.

“A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman,” ABC News reporter Matt Gutman wrote, noting that Zimmerman told police “he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground.”

ABC News reported that Zimmerman appears uninjured in the video. But a still image from the video indicates what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long.

In fact, not one both both camera views showed that Zimmerman has a laceration several inches long on the back of his head. Any blood had been cleaned up by the Fire Dept assets that had treated Zimmerman at the scene, and bruising would not have shown on the low-resolution video.

More disgusting is the obvious fact that ABC News used a strategically placed chyron (graphic) to cover up the back of Zimmerman’s head for their broadcast, covering up the video that would have disproven their story. View the video at the Daily Caller, and you’ll not that they did not even need a chyron, their was no need to transmit any additional visual data to explain the story.

The only logical reason the chyron exists is to cover-up Zimmerman’s wounds. ABC News doctored the video to sell a false narrative, in a dishonest attempt to brand a man a murderer. I’d be very interested to know if Zimmerman can pursue legal action against ABC for constructing this false narrative.

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 03:16 PM

You really believe that the only reason they involved themselves in this tragedy is because the victim is black?

Wow.. you really are easy to play.

Enlighten me? They're black advocates, the black community is going out of their gourd on this, why wouldn't they be there?

Are you just talking about them increasing their visibility and brand or some other obvious shit like that?

Menos

03-29-2012, 03:16 PM

Raw video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5OiLQjUcOU

ABC vid with the graphic conveniently placed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml8MuJNv4DY&feature=related

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 03:20 PM

If ABC did doctor up the video it would certainly explain that huge giant ass ABC logo they had on the video. Seriously when I was watching the video last night I couldn't believe they kept saying "look at Zimmerman's head! Look at it!" when they had a giant logo in the spot Zimmerman was occupying the majority of the time.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 03:22 PM

Raw video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5OiLQjUcOU

ABC vid with the graphic conveniently placed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml8MuJNv4DY&feature=related

Okay--that is all new levels of retarded. Did you watch the fucking video? The best view of the back of his head is from about 1:01-1:10 and the graphic is nowhere near it.

Not to mention that I watched this video on three different sites cnn, abc, msnbc last night and none of the ones I watched had this graphic. Saying an ABC graphics guy put this in intentionally to obscure a fact is paranoid inane bullshit.

Not to mention that I'm watching the video, I'm freezing the video, I'm screen capping the video, and somehow I can't see even one pixel that appears to be anything like the line (wound) that the Daily Caller somehow has in their still images, and it sure as hell doesn't look anything like the contrasted-up still that the Daily Caller has.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 03:27 PM

Exactly what part of pointing out how Democrats care about the "racist" story and not the thousands of other deaths makes me a racist? Or are you referring to my insinuation that racism is only interesting to those same people when it is against an African American? I am appalled by all of the violence, not just that against one group by one other specific group. Can you say the same about them?

Edit for typo.

Edit to add: Wouldn't ignoring the crimes based on the race of who did it be by definition racist?

Which bothers you more, ten thousand people killed in what is 100% surely murder or 1 person killed in possible self defense by someone of another race? I know where I stand on that one.

Edit to add: I did not bother pulling up the real gang violence numbers against African Americans, but I am sure they are more than 1 person.

AFAIK black-on-black crime in this country is much more vexing to blacks than white-on-black crime. I don't understand how you can start posting news stories to black kids setting white kids on fire and then be like "see??? RACISM." Guess what dude, the media focuses on certain stories because they get play, this one is juicy as fuck. I'm sorry the black kids setting the white kid on fire didn't get as much traction with the viewing audience, but I'm not sure what you're saying other than that you're disappointed that this story was highlighted and the other ones aren't. To me it's just a fact, to you it is somehow a liberal/black conspiracy. That's why you sound like a racist.

Jarvan

03-29-2012, 03:45 PM

We have also seen the President and the Congressional Black Caucus come out with statements. I think they are relevant. Did the Chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee call it a hate crime when the 13 year old was doused in gas and fire in Kansas City while his assailants said 'This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, Blackie'." Oh wait, was that what they said?

http://www.kmbc.com/news/30572405/detail.html

They all commented on each of the thousands of incidents where African Americans were killed by other African American teens, right? They are "under attack" after all.

http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/03/29/creators_oped

No they don't, because the Dems and the so called "civil rights" activists NEED Racism -white on black crime- they generally don't care about most other hate type crimes, except now straight on gay crime, to keep their voting block in line, to push for more stuff for their people, and to justify their existence.

Remember.. to them, hate or racism crimes only occur when it's Whites doing it to Minorities. When a Minority does it to a White, it's just crime.

Btw.. MSNBS certainly feels Sharpton is relevant. They Hired him, lol.

Atlanteax

03-29-2012, 03:46 PM

AFAIK black-on-black crime in this country is much more vexing to blacks than white-on-black crime. I don't understand how you can start posting news stories to black kids setting white kids on fire and then be like "see??? RACISM." Guess what dude, the media focuses on certain stories because they get play, this one is juicy as fuck. I'm sorry the black kids setting the white kid on fire didn't get as much traction with the viewing audience, but I'm not sure what you're saying other than that you're disappointed that this story was highlighted and the other ones aren't. To me it's just a fact, to you it is somehow a liberal/black conspiracy. That's why you sound like a racist.

Wow ... visual of you covering up your ears and yelling "la-la-la CANNOT HEAR YOU"

Jarvan

03-29-2012, 03:52 PM

Wow ... visual of you covering up your ears and yelling "la-la-la CANNOT HEAR YOU"

Leave him alone, he is a Liberal, and hence superior and could NEVER be a racist.

Menos

03-29-2012, 03:55 PM

AFAIK black-on-black crime in this country is much more vexing to blacks than white-on-black crime. I don't understand how you can start posting news stories to black kids setting white kids on fire and then be like "see??? RACISM."

I used the example to point out that the politicians I mentioned did not make comments about another crime with potential racists overtones. If I had just said "why not all these other crimes", You could have said "Because this one has race issues." It was framing my argument that the issue here is neither that a young black man was killed (See a zillion other instance) or that a crime with possible racial motives and a young victim (see that istance) was what mattered.

It was just too bad for the Dems it turned out to be a Spanish democrat and not a white republican involved. Even so we have seen the fantastically absurd statements like "White hispanic" and that the real cause is "The Koch Brothers and other conservatives (http://freebeacon.com/dem-operative-links-fla-shooting-to-koch-brothers/)." Never mind the fact that they were not involved in the SYG law lobby, nor the fact that the law would not be in effect in EITHER of the possible encounters that night. If Zimmerman started the assault he is not protected and if Martin did and had him on the ground he would have been covered under self defense in Florida (and almost every other state) well before the SYG law came into effect.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 03:56 PM

Wow ... visual of you covering up your ears and yelling "la-la-la CANNOT HEAR YOU"

I'm confused? Is there something in his post I didn't address?

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 04:26 PM

Okay--that is all new levels of retarded. Did you watch the fucking video? The best view of the back of his head is from about 1:01-1:10 and the graphic is nowhere near it.

Not to mention that I watched this video on three different sites cnn, abc, msnbc last night and none of the ones I watched had this graphic. Saying an ABC graphics guy put this in intentionally to obscure a fact is paranoid inane bullshit.

Not to mention that I'm watching the video, I'm freezing the video, I'm screen capping the video, and somehow I can't see even one pixel that appears to be anything like the line (wound) that the Daily Caller somehow has in their still images, and it sure as hell doesn't look anything like the contrasted-up still that the Daily Caller has.

I sort of agree with Ryvicke. Here's the real deal though: The ABC "Exclusive" video is a picture of a picture.. meaning they took a camera and taped a computer screen or TV playing the video. Later on, Sanford Police released the actual video that was more crisp.

I don't think ABC purposely obscured the back of Zimmerman's head... it was obscured because of the type of video it was.

Menos

03-29-2012, 04:30 PM

I'm confused? Is there something in his post I didn't address?

Me: Political figures are whipping a fury up for political reasons or else they would make hay about A: All these other African Americans killed or B: Other possibly racist attack.

You: Racist!

See the disconnect?

I will admit that my selection of that particular possible racist attack was something of an underhanded slight those who see only racism against themselves rather than just seeing violence against any people as the problem. Sorry if that hit a nerve.

Delias

03-29-2012, 04:33 PM

Me: Political figures are whipping a fury up for political reasons or else they would make hay about A: All these other African Americans killed or B: Other possibly racist attack.

You: Racist!

See the disconnect?

I will admit that my selection of that particular possible racist attack was something of an underhanded slight those who see only racism against themselves rather than just seeing violence against any people as the problem. Sorry if that hit a nerve.

I find the color of your font offensive. When will you stop building your arguments upon the back of black letters? Can't you just let them speak for themselves?

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 04:34 PM

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 04:44 PM

In Ryvicke's defense.. calling you a racist is pretty much all he has left at this point.

Actually after I'm done calling Menos a racist I am still totally primed to start calling you, Tgo, Jarvan and Atlanteax racists. Holy shit it's going to be fun! You guys are like the predictable old white guy all stars of the PC.

It was heart-warming that you backed me up on that video though--are you ready to take the next step and say the Daily Caller touched up the photo to add the "wound?" Cause that's what it looks like to me.

Menos

03-29-2012, 04:49 PM

Actually after I'm done calling Menos a racist I am still totally primed to start calling you, Tgo, Jarvan and Atlanteax racists. Holy shit it's going to be fun! You guys are like the predictable old white guy all stars of the PC.

It was heart-warming that you backed me up on that video though--are you ready to take the next step and say the Daily Caller touched up the photo to add the "wound?" Cause that's what it looks like to me.

Thats enough for me, onto the ignore list with ClydeR and the like. My online time is too short for people blinded by color.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 04:57 PM

I also want to take a quick time-out to address the internet websites you old white guys visit. You guys really seriously need to lay off that garbage. The level of the links you're sending range from completely fucking batshit to totally unreadable nonsense.

Please please please learn to keep away from this bullshit when you're using the internet. There are so many reputable sites and news agencies that will hold off on publishing any specious claims until they're properly backed up with evidence, you absolutely cannot keep wasting your time reading this junk.

PB--I know you often harp on mediamatters and moveon.org, but honestly--my browser history doesn't even have one hit on these two sites. They are opinion sites, time wasters specifically created to rile up a certain base and I have no use for them.

My mother is 56 years old. When I lived in Tel Aviv for a year she would somehow find her way onto all these crazy-ass sites that were constantly publishing stories about how rockets were, at that very second, hitting Tel Aviv from Gaza. It took me a really long time to get her to start going down the line of reputable sites to see if it's true.

So please stop wasting all of our time, any true conservative has an account with the Journal, so go give some of your cash to that fine organization, it's worth it (their op-ed page can be hilarious, but it's like Shakespeare compared to the shit you guys are linking).

Believe in the real press of this country, there are good people doing good work. There is investigation and in-depth reporting at these organizations that you will not find on any television news show. Stay away from things called "analysis." Just don't read/watch it.

Seriously, it's not too late to turn your consumption habits around: online.wsj.com.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 05:08 PM

Thats enough for me, onto the ignore list with ClydeR and the like. My online time is too short for people blinded by color.

I like how you have to ignore me now but you've been posting for 5 days with people talking trash about black thugs and the mainstream media being biased against whites.

It does appear like you're incredibly sensitive to opinions on race that aren't the ones you usually listen to on your talk radio shows. Sorry I had to come in your thread and disagree with Rush Limbaugh.

Also: you have ClydeR on ignore? That sucks, his shit is consistently interesting.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 05:21 PM

Actually after I'm done calling Menos a racist I am still totally primed to start calling you, Tgo, Jarvan and Atlanteax racists. Holy shit it's going to be fun! You guys are like the predictable old white guy all stars of the PC.

It was heart-warming that you backed me up on that video though--are you ready to take the next step and say the Daily Caller touched up the photo to add the "wound?" Cause that's what it looks like to me.

Sorry ignorant child, I only deal with facts. Of course it looks like that for you.. because it fits your narrative to believe a white guy who only pretends to be Hispanic, is a racist, gun totting Republican nutjob who goes out at nights, hunting innocent "coons".

Delias

03-29-2012, 05:25 PM

Warriorbird

03-29-2012, 05:29 PM

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 05:30 PM

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 05:30 PM

Sorry ignorant child, I only deal with facts. Of course it looks like that for you.. because it fits your narrative to believe a white guy who only pretends to be Hispanic, is a racist, gun totting Republican nutjob who goes out at nights, hunting innocent "coons".

Wait--why is Zimmerman pretending to be hispanic? Is he a Republican? I do think he's racist, from his words on the 911 tape. I'm not totally sure that he said "coons" on that tape, although it definitely could be "coons." Lastly, I also do think it's fact that he spent some of his nights patrolling and on this particular night, he definitely hunted an innocent man, he says so in the 911 call.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 05:31 PM

Why aren't you attacking conservatives for posting fake Trayvon pics?

Because you do it enough for the both of us?

Tgo01

03-29-2012, 05:31 PM

Suppa Hobbit Mage

03-29-2012, 05:32 PM

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 05:33 PM

http://jscottcarter.com/wp-content/gallery/triangle-3-variations/intended-facepalm-i1.jpg

You've used the 'intended facepalm' on me before, and I'm a big fan of No Country, since it was made by a couple of jews from my home state, so I'm happy to see it again. I'm also happy that you feel that what I said is so obvious to you! I look forward to you never linking to bullshit sites or completely fabricated pictures or news again.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 05:36 PM

Wait--why is Zimmerman pretending to be hispanic?

Because, if he were just white, it would be perfect for you and the other dumb people like you. Now we have the term "white Hispanic" to add to our daily vocabulary.

Is he a Republican?

He's actually a registered Democrat.

I do think he's racist, from his words on the 911 tape.

Which words exactly lead you to know he's a racist?

I'm not totally sure that he said "coons" on that tape, although it definitely could be "coons."

Of course it could. If only you could make it sound like "Nigger".. that would really make you happy!

Lastly, I also do think it's fact that he spent some of his nights patrolling and on this particular night, he definitely hunted an innocent man, he says so in the 911 call.

Yea.. that's what people who do Neighborhood Watch usually do... patrol the streets.

Suppa Hobbit Mage

03-29-2012, 05:36 PM

Wait--why is Zimmerman pretending to be hispanic? Is he a Republican? I do think he's racist, from his words on the 911 tape. I'm not totally sure that he said "coons" on that tape, although it definitely could be "coons." Lastly, I also do think it's fact that he spent some of his nights patrolling and on this particular night, he definitely hunted an innocent man, he says so in the 911 call.

When does he say he is hunting an innocent man? I missed that.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 05:39 PM

Hey now according to that one test Clyder posted last week I love black people.

Ryvicke is simply overcompensating for his own racist views.. as evidenced by that same very "scientific" test.

Ryvicke

03-29-2012, 05:46 PM

Because, if he were just white, it would be perfect for you and the other dumb people like you. Now we have the term "white Hispanic" to add to our daily vocabulary.

He's actually a registered Democrat.

Which words exactly lead you to know he's a racist?

Of course it could. If only you could make it sound like "Nigger".. that would really make you happy!

Yea.. that's what people who do Neighborhood Watch usually do... patrol the streets.

I actually wasn't paying attention when you guys were having that whole "white hispanic" debate. Is he both? I thought he was "hispanic." I think it would be a little misleading to call him "white."

If he's a democrat why did you say he was a Republican? Why did you write a whole paragraph of shit that you knew wasn't true and then made me ask you questions about it before you wrote what you knew?

I assume Zimmerman is racist because of the first page of this: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

And then after describing what Martin looks like to the dispatcher he says "these assholes always get away." Prior to that he had said "a black male" and "he's got his hand in his waistband." I'm not sure how to read "these assholes always get away" if he's not assuming that the black male with his hand in his waistband is a de facto criminal, because why else would they "always get away"? He profiled him.

Parkbandit

03-29-2012, 05:48 PM

I actually wasn't paying attention when you guys were having that whole "white hispanic" debate. Is he both? I thought he was "hispanic." I think it would be a little misleading to call him "white."

If he's a democrat why did you say he was a Republican? Why did you write a whole paragraph of shit that you knew wasn't true and then made me ask you questions about it before you wrote what you knew?

I assume Zimmerman is racist because of the first page of this: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

And then after describing what Martin looks like to the dispatcher he says "these assholes always get away." Prior to that he had said "a black male" and "he's got his hand in his waistband." I'm not sure how to read "these assholes always get away" if he's not assuming that the black male with his hand in his waistband is a de facto criminal, because why else would they "always get away"? He profiled him.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/JTninja/Fail_Is_Strong.jpg