2016 Election Prediction Thread

[mjc]

This election ended up as a rebellion of the status quo, pure and simple. I'm southern and because of that, I'm seen as racist. I am not racist, homophobic and, most definitely, not xenophobic. I do hope we can all come together. Like it or not, Trump is our president-elect. It's up to us to make change in all this. The president doesn't make the social changes. We do.

[drauz]

Actually, most undocumented immigrants DO pay taxes. Here's the bitter truth- I know that everyone thinks that every undocumented immigrant is from Mexico and works in a field (NOT that those are somehow inferior human beings), but actually most are on payrolls and have payroll taxes taken out of their paychecks.

They pay for social security, medicare, medicaid...things they will never benefit from.

They're already tax payers. And they take less than your average citizen.

Right, but a payroll tax that they can set. W-4 is set by the employee and bases what the employer will give the government from their paycheck.

[Thondalar]

Again- be human. Be something better than this.

Humans are naturally logical creatures. Empathy and emotion are wonderful things, but they must be tempered by logic. Love and Hatred come from the same chemicals.

[Thondalar]

Right, but a payroll tax that they can set. W-4 is set by the employee and bases what the employer will give the government from their paycheck.

Shh. She read somewhere that what she says is right. Don't argue.

[time4fun]

Right, but a payroll tax that they can set. W-4 is set by the employee and bases what the employer will give the government from their paycheck.

You're thinking like a documented citizen. You're not putting yourself in the shoes of the millions like my brother.

You can't afford to be audited. Horrible things can happen to you. You never underpay the IRS. You NEVER take fewer deductions. You always take more.

Always

[mjc]

You're thinking like a documented citizen. You're not putting yourself in the shoes of the millions like my brother.

You can't afford to be audited. Horrible things can happen to you. You never underpay the IRS. You NEVER take fewer deductions. You always take more.

Always

Which it is why he should become LEGAL.

[mjc]

I have to abide the law. Everyone else should too. Not sure why there are those that think they shouldn't. It's the price you pay.

[time4fun]

This election ended up as a rebellion of the status quo, pure and simple. I'm southern and because of that, I'm seen as racist. I am not racist, homophobic and, most definitely, not xenophobic. I do hope we can all come together. Like it or not, Trump is our president-elect. It's up to us to make change in all this. The president doesn't make the social changes. We do.

No. Racism is 1 part actual racists and 2 parts people who dismissed racism as "throw away lines".

Donald Trump's "message" was a political Rorschach test.

I'm banning Muslisms from this country for our protection
The first thing I'm going to do is deport EVERY undocumented immigrant in this country
I'm going to build a wall to keep rapist Mexicans out of this country
It's time to drain the swamp!
I'm going to appoint a judge to overturn gay marriage
My new Vice President is the one who fought for a law that allows people to discriminate against LGBTQ citizens for "religious" reasons
I'm going to appoint a judge to overturn abortion
When you're me you can grab women by the pussy, and they let you do it. But the 11 women who are accusing me of that are liars

A lot of the people who voted for him just saw this:

I'm banning Muslisms from this country for our protection
The first thing I'm going to do is deport EVERY undocumented immigrant in this country
I'm going to build a wall to keep rapist Mexicans out of this country
It's time to drain the swamp!
I'm going to appoint a judge to overturn gay marriage
My new Vice President is the one who fought for a law that allows people to discriminate against LGBTQ citizens for "religious" reasons
I'm going to appoint a judge to overturn abortion
When you're me you can grab women by the pussy, and they let you do it. But the 11 women who are accusing me of that are liars

Did they vote for him because of the other horrible things he said? Not at all. Did they vote for the oppression of Muslims LGBTQ citizens, documented immigrants, women, undocumented immigrants, and women in need of reproductive rights? Absolutely.

Oppression is rarely about 95% of a society deciding they take joy and comfort in hurting other people. It's almost always about a minority of people who are motivated by that and a plurality of people who shrug and say "This is about change!".

[time4fun]

Which it is why he should become LEGAL.

Thanks! You know after all of these decades, my family had never even considered that.

Do me a favor- hold that thought while I go share this exciting news.

[drauz]

You're thinking like a documented citizen. You're not putting yourself in the shoes of the millions like my brother.

You can't afford to be audited. Horrible things can happen to you. You never underpay the IRS. You NEVER take fewer deductions. You always take more.

Always

I can see the logic in what you say, but unfortunately not everyone is that smart. Even smart people do dumb shit. It surely isn't unfeasible that some or many would try to claim more than they have especially if they bought a SS#. Illegal residents have a special way they must fill out a W-4 as indicated by the IRS here. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/aliens-employed-in-the-u-s . Do some/most of them do this how they are supposed to, I hope so. Given the fact that they are already willing to break the law just by being and working here, I don't have the faith that you do in them.

Given the criminality of there actions already I would say it is tough if not impossible to get the true numbers.

[time4fun]

I can see the logic in what you say, but unfortunately not everyone is that smart. Even smart people do dumb shit. It surely isn't unfeasible that some or many would try to claim more than they have especially if they bought a SS#. Illegal residents have a special way they must fill out a W-4 as indicated by the IRS here. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/aliens-employed-in-the-u-s . Do some/most of them do this how they are supposed to, I hope so. Given the fact that they are already willing to break the law just by being and working here, I don't have the faith that you do in them.

Stop. Just stop.

Don't treat my brother like he's probably either stupid or immoral. People like my brother are just trying to survive, and they do everything they can do to so.

So if you're going to boil the value of my brother's life down to the net gain or loss of his labor, don't be so heartless as to set the situation up to assume that people like him are too stupid or immoral to act logically.

He's not a rodent. He's not vermin. He's not a locust. He's not a pest.

He's a human being, and there is nothing about him that is any different from you.

[drauz]

No. Racism is 1 part actual racists and 2 parts people who dismissed racism as "throw away lines".

Donald Trump's "message" was a political Rorschach test.

I'm banning Muslisms from this country for our protection
The first thing I'm going to do is deport EVERY undocumented immigrant in this country
I'm going to build a wall to keep rapist Mexicans out of this country
It's time to drain the swamp!
I'm going to appoint a judge to overturn gay marriage
My new Vice President is the one who fought for a law that allows people to discriminate against LGBTQ citizens for "religious" reasons
I'm going to appoint a judge to overturn abortion
When you're me you can grab women by the pussy, and they let you do it. But the 11 women who are accusing me of that are liars

A lot of the people who voted for him just saw this:

I'm banning Muslisms from this country for our protection
The first thing I'm going to do is deport EVERY undocumented immigrant in this country
I'm going to build a wall to keep rapist Mexicans out of this country
It's time to drain the swamp!
I'm going to appoint a judge to overturn gay marriage
My new Vice President is the one who fought for a law that allows people to discriminate against LGBTQ citizens for "religious" reasons
I'm going to appoint a judge to overturn abortion
When you're me you can grab women by the pussy, and they let you do it. But the 11 women who are accusing me of that are liars

Did they vote for him because of the other horrible things he said? Not at all. Did they vote for the oppression of Muslims LGBTQ citizens, documented immigrants, women, undocumented immigrants, and women in need of reproductive rights? Absolutely.

Oppression is rarely about 95% of a society deciding they take joy and comfort in hurting other people. It's almost always about a minority of people who are motivated by that and a plurality of people who shrug and say "This is about change!".

time4fun is a mind reader.

Do me a favor- hold that thought while I go share this exciting news.

[Gelston]

there is nothing about him that is any different from you.

Yes, actually, one pretty big thing that is different.

[drauz]

Stop. Just stop.

Don't treat my brother like he's probably either stupid or immoral. People like my brother are just trying to survive, and they do everything they can do to so.

So if you're going to boil the value of my brother's life down to the net gain or loss of his labor, don't be so heartless as to set the situation up to assume that people like him are too stupid or immoral to act logically.

He's not a rodent. He's not vermin. He's not a locust. He's not a pest.

He's a human being, and there is nothing about him that is any different from you.

I am not talking about your brother I am talking about the undocumented workers as a whole. Please don't try this pull the heart strings crap with me. I feel I have been more than considerate about your feelings regarding this issue. Do you want to talk about immigration or do you want to talk about just your brother. These two are not exactly the same issue.

Notice the part were I said even smart people do dumb shit? You are reading what you want to read to get yourself worked up. Take a breath, do some yoga and come back if you want an actual discussion.

[time4fun]

These two are not the same issue.

The point here Drauz is that they are exactly the same issue. You are pretending like they are different because it makes your stance easier to swallow. If you avoid the human price, you can pretend like it's just a logical decision. You can ignore the wear and tear driving across country will have on your truck, but that doesn't mean you aren't damaging it the whole time.

Ideally this won't surprise you, but "undocumented immigrants are largely too stupid or immoral to act logically, but I'm sure your brother is the exception" isn't magically more acceptable than "your brother is too stupid or immoral to act logically".

One of my sisters came here with fraudulent documentation. She was an undocumented immigrant for the first 10 or so years of her life in this country. Was she stupid and immoral for those 10 years? Did she become smarter and more logical afterwards?

Was my brother a normal human being for the first eleven years of his life before his dad moved him and his sister to the US with fake documents? Did he become more prone to being stupid or immoral after he got here?

Was I automatically more moral because I was born here and inherited my papers?

[mjc]

Thanks! You know after all of these decades, my family had never even considered that.

Do me a favor- hold that thought while I go share this exciting news.

Let me tell you something. I broke the law. I was arrested and spend 24 hours in a hellhole jail in podunk Alabama with NO phone call. I paid my dues monetarily along with my probation time. That's because I broke the law. What makes you different? Huh?!!

[Shaps]

The point here Drauz is that they are exactly the same issue.

Ideally this won't surprise you, but "undocumented immigrants are largely too stupid or immoral to act logically, but I'm sure your brother is the exception" isn't magically more acceptable than "your brother is too stupid or immoral to act logically".

One of my sisters came here with fraudulent documentation. She was an undocumented immigrant for the first 10 or so years of her life. Was she stupid and immoral for those 10 years? Did she become smarter and more logical afterwards?

Was my brother a normal human being for the first ten years? Did he become more prone to being stupid or immoral after those ten years?

Was I automatically more moral because I was born here and inherited my papers?

So now you're admitting that your sister came here for 10 years fraudulently? Geezus. So you're upset because for years you're family members live in a country illegally.. and you openly admit it.. and expect people to feel sorry for your situation now that the laws (which are already in place) may actually be enforced and affect them?

Why do you just keep openly admitting your family breaks the laws of the Nation you want to live in, then try to preach to it's legal citizens.

This shit is getting insane.

[time4fun]

Let me tell you something. I broke the law. I was arrested and spend 24 hours in a hellhole jail in podunk Alabama. I paid my dues monetarily along with my probation time. That's because I broke the law. What makes you different? Huh?!!

That's an amazing amount of human suffering, and I'm sure that whatever you did was equivalent to my brother being dragged here as a child and turned from a normal kid into a scary "illegal" or to my family deciding that families are supposed to be together, that we would be horrible people to just ship a teenager back and make him live alone in a strange country he doesn't really remember.

And everything we're going through right now- I'm sure it's roughly equivalent to a 24 hour romp in a jail cell.

[Shaps]

That's an amazing amount of human suffering, and I'm sure that whatever you did was equivalent to my brother being dragged here as a child and turned from a normal kid into a scary "illegal" or to my family deciding that families are supposed to be together, that we would be horrible people to just ship a teenager back and make him live alone in a strange country he doesn't really remember.

And everything we're going through right now- I'm sure it's roughly equivalent to a 24 hour romp in a jail cell.

Then be pissed off at your parents or whoever brought him here and didn't get him legal status. Be pissed at them. Don't be pissed at the citizens of a Nation that just wants its laws enforced. That's a choice your family made, no one else. So blame your family if one of your illegal relatives get deported... not us.

[time4fun]

So now you're admitting that your sister came here for 10 years fraudulently? Geezus. So you're upset because for years you're family members live in a country illegally.. and you openly admit it.. and expect people to feel sorry for your situation now that the laws (which are already in place) may actually be enforced and affect them?

Why do you just keep openly admitting your family breaks the laws of the Nation you want to live in, then try to preach to it's legal citizens.

This shit is getting insane.

Why didn't these children fight back and say "NO DAD- LEAVE US HERE AND LET US LIVE ON OUR OWN!"

Didn't they understand how much they were hurting you? Hey- do you think if we put my family in prison that next time they're children who're being brought to a strange country, they'll do the right thing and sit down until he leaves them to fend for themselves?

This is getting insane, I agree.

[drauz]

The point here Drauz is that they are exactly the same issue. You are pretending like they are different because it makes your stance easier to swallow. If you avoid the human price, you can pretend like it's just a logical decision. You can ignore the wear and tear driving across country will have on your truck, but that doesn't mean you aren't damaging it the whole time.

Ideally this won't surprise you, but "undocumented immigrants are largely too stupid or immoral to act logically, but I'm sure your brother is the exception" isn't magically more acceptable than "your brother is too stupid or immoral to act logically".

One of my sisters came here with fraudulent documentation. She was an undocumented immigrant for the first 10 or so years of her life. Was she stupid and immoral for those 10 years? Did she become smarter and more logical afterwards?

Was my brother a normal human being for the first eleven years of his life before his dad moved him and his sister to the US with fake documents? Did he become more prone to being stupid or immoral after he got here?

Was I automatically more moral because I was born here and inherited my papers?

You are putting words into my mouth. My comment about intelligence was regarding you saying what the logical thing to do would be. I was merely pointing out that not everyone is that smart or thinks logically. I don't believe I insinuated their intelligence was below average only that they are human beings just like everyone else, some are dumb and some are smart.

Regarding the immoral statements you are making. If I put two people infront of most people in the world and told them one was a criminal and one wasn't. Then told them one would tell you the truth and one would lie to you. Who do you think most the world would pick as the liar? It is not a leap to assume that if you are willing to break one law you wouldn't be willing to break another. Pretty sure thats why you can't bring up past crimes in court, the jury would almost always just brand you guilty.

[mjc]

That's an amazing amount of human suffering, and I'm sure that whatever you did was equivalent to my brother being dragged here as a child and turned from a normal kid into a scary "illegal" or to my family deciding that families are supposed to be together, that we would be horrible people to just ship a teenager back and make him live alone in a strange country he doesn't really remember.

And everything we're going through right now- I'm sure it's roughly equivalent to a 24 hour romp in a jail cell.

Bitch, it wasn't just a 24 romp in jail. I broke the fucking law and I had to pay restitution. You think you don't have to?

[drauz]

Why didn't these children fight back and say "NO DAD- LEAVE US HERE AND LET US LIVE ON OUR OWN!"

Didn't they understand how much they were hurting you? Hey- do you think if we put my family in prison that next time they're children who're being brought to a strange country, they'll do the right thing and sit down until he leaves them to fend for themselves?

This is getting insane, I agree.

How did you interpret that as him blaming the child?!

Please go smoke a joint, drink a glass of wine, smoke a cigarette, or do some yoga. Whatever you do to unwind. You are reading what isn't there.

[Shaps]

Why didn't these children fight back and say "NO DAD- LEAVE US HERE AND LET US LIVE ON OUR OWN!"

Didn't they understand how much they were hurting you? Hey- do you think if we put my family in prison that next time they're children who're being brought to a strange country, they'll do the right thing and sit down until he leaves them to fend for themselves?

This is getting insane, I agree.

As I said.. blame your family for the situation your brother and whoever else in your family is here illegally. Seems to me your anger should be directed towards them. Not our fault they wanted to enter a country illegally, take advantage of the benefits, then cry about it because eventually someone would enforce the law.

So that conversation you had with your mom early... I know exactly what you can tell her... "Why the hell didn't you move to the US legally so my brother, your son, wouldn't be crying right now."

Try that out and get back to us.

[time4fun]

Then be pissed off at your parents or whoever brought him here and didn't get him legal status. Be pissed at them. Don't be pissed at the citizens of a Nation that just wants its laws enforced. That's a choice your family made, no one else. So blame your family if one of your illegal relatives get deported... not us.

Should my mother have turned her new children in and had them removed from the country? Is a mother who sends her children away with no regard to their lives a good person?

Even if I had known my siblings were here on fake documentation, should I have gone to my Principle in middle school and asked them to take my brother and sister away? Would I have been a good person?

What about now? Should I call ICE and ask them to send my brother back to a country he's never known? Would that make me a good person? If I won't do that to my family, am I a bad person?

When my sister became a citizen, should she have told them that her baby brother wasn't? Would that have made her a good person?

How dare you expect people to do monstrous things and then feel morally superior when they don't.

You're the monster.

[time4fun]

Bitch, it wasn't just a 24 romp in jail. I broke the fucking law and I had to pay restitution. You think you don't have to?

What a pathetic, shallow thing to say.

[mjc]

What a pathetic, shallow thing to say.

Really?!! I paid mine. What about yours?!!!!!

[drauz]

Should my mother have turned her new children in and had them removed from the country? Is a mother who sends her children away with no regard to their lives a good person?

Even if I had known my siblings were here on fake documentation, should I have gone to my Principle in middle school and asked them to take my brother and sister away? Would I have been a good person?

What about now? Should I call ICE and ask them to send my brother back to a country he's never known? Would that make me a good person? If I won't do that to my family, am I a bad person?

When my sister became a citizen, should she have told them that her baby brother wasn't? Would that have made her a good person?

How dare you expect people to do monstrous things and then feel morally superior when they don't.

You're the monster.

Your mother shouldn't have come here illegally in the first place.

[Shaps]

Should my mother have turned her new children in and had them removed from the country? Is a mother who sends her children away with no regard to their lives a good person?

Even if I had known my siblings were here on fake documentation, should I have gone to my Principle in middle school and asked them to take my brother and sister away? Would I have been a good person?

What about now? Should I call ICE and ask them to send my brother back to a country he's never known? Would that make me a good person? If I won't do that to my family, am I a bad person?

When my sister became a citizen, should she have told them that her baby brother wasn't? Would that have made her a good person?

How dare you expect people to do monstrous things and then feel morally superior when they don't.

You're the monster.

? Seriously? Whatever. Last time going to post on this topic, because you will say whatever to rationalize in your own mind that you are in the right. Even though you've openly admitted to breaking US Federal Laws.

If I worked for ICE and had the authority, after you admitting everything here... I probably would track down your relatives and deport them. Case would be easy to prove with you running your mouth so much. FORTUNATELY, I do not work for ICE... So I'm done giving a shit about you and your situation.

[Tgo01]

Actually, most undocumented immigrants DO pay taxes.

:rofl:

[Stumplicker]

How did you interpret that as him blaming the child?!

Please go smoke a joint, drink a glass of wine, smoke a cigarette, or do some yoga. Whatever you do to unwind. You are reading what isn't there.

No comment on the rest of the content of what you've been arguing, but I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to mention that federally and in many states, smoking a joint is exactly as illegal as being an undocumented immigrant, but no one seems terribly concerned about enforcement of punishment for pot smokers.

[time4fun]

Your mother shouldn't have come here illegally in the first place.

Step father.

Tell me- is the appropriate punishment for that to split my family apart and send a man back to a country he's never known?

You have to stop for a second and pull yourself back into the situation families like mine are in today. Even if we had some magic time machine to go back and change things, I'm not going to buy that my family should never have existed, because that's just an insanely low thing to say to someone. It's not the moral high ground- it's not. "Your family should never have been a family" can never be the moral high ground. And no one who believes something like that is in an appropriate space. The presence or absence of an arbitrary piece of paper does not make moral the decision to treat human beings like they are of no consequence.

You're skirting the actual issue. You're punishing the wrong people. There is no time machine.

Find a moral approach that preserves human dignity. Or, if not, acknowledge that you are behaving in a way that robs good human beings of that dignity.

Just don't expect horrible things to happen to people and pat yourself on the back while telling yourself that you're moral and they're bad people. That's what immoral people do.

[drauz]

No comment on the rest of the content of what you've been arguing, but I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to mention that federally and in many states, smoking a joint is exactly as illegal as being an undocumented immigrant, but no one seems terribly concerned about enforcement of punishment for pot smokers.

And people aren't as concerned about jaywalking as hitting someone with a car.

[drauz]

Step father.

Tell me- is the appropriate punishment for that to split my family apart and send a man back to a country he's never known?

You have to stop for a second and pull yourself back into the situation families like mine are in today. Even if we had some magic time machine to go back and change things, I'm not going to buy that my family should never have existed, because that's just an insanely low thing to say to someone. It's not the moral high ground- it's not. "Your family should never have been a family" can never be the moral high ground. And no one who believes something like that is in an appropriate space. The presence or absence of an arbitrary piece of paper does not make moral the decision to treat human beings like they are of no consequence.

You're skirting the actual issue. You're punishing the wrong people. There is no time machine.

Find a moral approach that preserves human dignity. Or, if not, acknowledge that you are behaving in a way that robs good human beings of that dignity.

Just don't expect horrible things to happen to people and pat yourself on the back while telling yourself that you're moral and they're bad people. That's what immoral people do.


You mentioned your mother in the post I quoted so I used her. Whoever did it is at fault, it doesn't matter to me (but it should to you) who did it. I'm not opposed to allowing people, who are doing everything right except for having citizenship/papers, a path to citizenship.

You don't get to try to take the moral high ground either though, just because you are trying to defend your family. You've probably known your brother was illegal for years and are just now getting around to trying make him legal because someone is actually going to enforce the law. From your past posts it doesn't seem like any real effort was put into it if any.

Sorry, but this is the real world. Bad things can happen to good people. It sucks and these are the tough positions that allowing undocumented people for decades has caused. To fix the immigration problem I fear that a lot of tough decisions are going to have to be made.

So, what is your solution?

[time4fun]

You mentioned your mother in the post I quoted so I used her. Whoever did it is at fault, it doesn't matter to me (but it should to you) who did it. I'm not opposed to allowing people, who are doing everything right except for having citizenship/papers, a path to citizenship.

You don't get to try to take the moral high ground either though, just because you are trying to defend your family. You've probably known your brother was illegal for years and are just now getting around to trying make him legal because someone is actually going to enforce the law. From your past posts it doesn't seem like any real effort was put into it if any.

Sorry, but this is the real world. Bad things can happen to good people. It sucks and these are the tough positions that allowing undocumented people for decades has caused. To fix the immigration problem I fear that a lot of tough decisions are going to have to be made.

So, what is your solution?

First- don't be the kind of person who would make up a story like "I bet you stood around and never helped the brother you love, and also I think you're a bad person for caring now". It's an illogical statement intended to make you feel better by demonizing someone else. It's petty and cruel and baseless and beneath even the lowest threshold of human decency.

And second, I will leave you with this: perhaps the moment when you fell most short was witnessing the fear and pain of a family (who really represents millions of families) that is threatened with something that would likely be your worst nightmare and immediately looking to find fault in them. Maybe after voting in a manner that helped put them there, you had better options to choose from.

Your retorts about doing the legal and ethical thing would have held much more weight if you had started from a more human space. If you see people living in fear, and you see families being torn apart, and if you did something to help make that happen- you really have to stop and ask yourself what it means if your initial reaction is indifference, condemnation, or irritation at having to hear about it.

Again, be human. Be better.

[Stumplicker]

On a slightly different note, though still on the note of the point of this thread - Did anyone predict that Maine would have legalized marijuana by a margin of 0.003%? 378,288 to 375,668?

[drauz]

First- don't be the kind of person who would make up a story like "I bet you stood around and never helped the brother you love, and also I think you're a bad person for caring now". It's an illogical statement intended to make you feel better by demonizing someone else. It's petty and cruel and baseless and beneath even the lowest threshold of human decency.

And second, I will leave you with this: perhaps the moment when you fell most short was witnessing the fear and pain of a family (who really represents millions of families) that is threatened with something that would likely be your worst nightmare and immediately looking to find fault in them. Maybe after voting in a manner that helped put them there, you had better options to choose from.

Your retorts about doing the legal and ethical thing would have held much more weight if you had started from a more human space. If you see people living in fear, and you see families being torn apart, and if you did something to help make that happen- you really have to stop and ask yourself what it means if your initial reaction is indifference, condemnation, or irritation at having to hear about it.

Again, be human. Be better.


All ribbing aside, I would recommend you start the process for your brother. Better late than never. Does your family also live in CA? If so, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill regarding the LGBTQ. Either way, I hope you can figure out something so that your family can stay here legally.

That was my starting point, in case your forgot.

I feel like I started within a very human space. I even sent you rep regarding what other people were saying to you about your brother. I didn't send a PM because I didn't need to be acknowledged for doing something decent. No response was necessary.


And this was my following post.


I would assume that talking to an attorney would be the only step available to you at the moment. For all you know it might not be all that hard to get the green card started. Hell, find him a girl/guy there in CA for him to marry. Problem solved!

Either way, good luck.

Not important but is your brother subsidized or does he pay for his insurance in full?

I guess i didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying you didn't help your brother because you didn't love him, I was implying that you felt it wasn't needed at the time because nothing was being done about immigration.

[time4fun]

That was my starting point, in case your forgot.

True. It was at least 2-3 posts before you called my family criminals and said we deserved what was happening to us because my brother was using the health insurance that he was paying for in payroll taxes.

I'll grant you that over the years many people didn't bother waiting that long.

[drauz]

True. It was at least 2-3 posts before you called my family criminals and said we deserved what was happening to us because my brother was using the health insurance that he was paying for in payroll taxes.

I'll grant you that over the years many people didn't bother waiting that long.

I think you are reading into things again, quote me the post cause I can't seem to find it. To be fair, your family are technically criminals. MY payroll tax would barely cover health insurance and you've said he doesn't make much. I don't know if you meant compared to you or regular people like me.

I don't think anyone deserves to have their family torn apart, but you seem to be acting like your family has done everything right and the government is just trying to step in and rip your family apart for no reason. I just said what my suggestion is, so again what it yours?

[Androidpk]

Who knew politics could be so divisive?

Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton

[Androidpk]

Again, be human. Be better.

Spends months viciously attacking people over their beliefs then pulls out the victim card. Real classy.

[Androidpk]

On a slightly different note, though still on the note of the point of this thread - Did anyone predict that Maine would have legalized marijuana by a margin of 0.003%? 378,288 to 375,668?

Never say your vote doesn't matter!

[Wrathbringer]

Step father.

Tell me- is the appropriate punishment for that to split my family apart and send a man back to a country he's never known?

Yes.

[Vorpos]

Step father.

Tell me- is the appropriate punishment for that to split my family apart and send a man back to a country he's never known?

You have to stop for a second and pull yourself back into the situation families like mine are in today. Even if we had some magic time machine to go back and change things, I'm not going to buy that my family should never have existed, because that's just an insanely low thing to say to someone. It's not the moral high ground- it's not. "Your family should never have been a family" can never be the moral high ground. And no one who believes something like that is in an appropriate space. The presence or absence of an arbitrary piece of paper does not make moral the decision to treat human beings like they are of no consequence.

You're skirting the actual issue. You're punishing the wrong people. There is no time machine.

Find a moral approach that preserves human dignity. Or, if not, acknowledge that you are behaving in a way that robs good human beings of that dignity.

Just don't expect horrible things to happen to people and pat yourself on the back while telling yourself that you're moral and they're bad people. That's what immoral people do.

If your family doesn't want to be separated from your brother they can all go with him.

[Methais]

Of course I use resources, but I'm here legally. I don't have a single problem with someone in this country legally using resources, even if they are sitting at home collecting social security all day. They did it the proper and legal way. Why is this so hard to understand from Liberals?

Because it's an argument based on logic instead of emotion, and liberals aren't capable of using logic.

[rolfard]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JmumK0X9nXA/UNOBze6KVoI/AAAAAAAAAGc/HCErntUaN4Q/s1600/strangegame.png

[Methais]

What exactly do you think you're proving? What? It's like you're seeing some sort of great argument that no one else sees.

I never claimed to build hospitals or schools, I'm not sure how this ties into Obama telling businesses that they didn't build their own businesses.



I really think you've lost your mind since Trump won the presidency. Don't worry, I heard some professionals were offering their services for free to people dealing with the Trump trauma.

They're giving out free hot chocolate too.

I wonder if WB is providing hot chocolate and therapy dogs to his students.


Let's be clear....I said nothing about deportations. We were and all immigrants at some point.

I wasn't. I was born here.


At one point in time, I thought you were a good person.

You have demonstrated that you're what you accused me of. Partially for being unwilling to read full posts- which described why he's undocumented and the ways I tried to help. And partially for taking as your primary point from all of this how horrible the family members of people like my brother are. Again- be human. Be something better than this.

That's what happens when you act like a cunt.


I think your blind intolerance to the views, wants, and wishes of other people and your general proclivity to call them "stupid", "racist", "sexist" or any other negative word has led to people not bothering to read the full context of your posts. This, again, is something you've brought upon yourself.

See what I mean?

Your brother probably isn't going to get deported anyway. My guess is that Trump's gonna first focus on illegals that are committing crimes (not counting the crime of being here illegally) and situations like yours will probably be dealt with on an individual basis. Then you can take your "I make more than 10 of you combined" cunt money and pay off whatever for your brother.

You'll still be a self-righteous smug ignorant as fuck twatmonster who thinks her shit smells like roses when it's all said and done though.


Should my mother have turned her new children in and had them removed from the country? Is a mother who sends her children away with no regard to their lives a good person?

Even if I had known my siblings were here on fake documentation, should I have gone to my Principle in middle school and asked them to take my brother and sister away? Would I have been a good person?

What about now? Should I call ICE and ask them to send my brother back to a country he's never known? Would that make me a good person? If I won't do that to my family, am I a bad person?

When my sister became a citizen, should she have told them that her baby brother wasn't? Would that have made her a good person?

How dare you expect people to do monstrous things and then feel morally superior when they don't.

You're the monster.

Are you ever going to make an argument based on logic instead of this emotional heart string bullshit? Nobody give a fuck about the emotional argument because normal people use logic.


Just don't expect horrible things to happen to people and pat yourself on the back while telling yourself that you're moral and they're bad people. That's what immoral people do.

You're an immoral person.

[Methais]

lolololololol I'm sure these protesters will be taken seriously now...

https://www.facebook.com/WatchMeClose/posts/1134075613314478

[~Rocktar~]

Well, it sure seems that Liberals have this thing for crapping in the streets.

8216

https://youtu.be/iGC2R428eO4

[macgyver]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JmumK0X9nXA/UNOBze6KVoI/AAAAAAAAAGc/HCErntUaN4Q/s1600/strangegame.png

Can be applied to so many things. Drugs, Gambling, Gemstone..

[Parkbandit]

People are sensitive. I just asked a question. It always entertains me how conservatives will claim they don't use resources (they 'built it!') but immigrants do though.

Wait.. who here said they don't use resources but immigrants do?

I'd call strawman here, but you aren't even attempting to make an argument. You are just throwing out stupid shit and hoping something sticks.

Also, people like time4fun's brother aren't immigrants.. they are illegal alien leeches and deserve absolutely nothing from our government.

[Parkbandit]

At one point in time, I thought you were a good person.

I honestly never for a moment thought you were a good person. I knew you were full of shit the moment you started here. You've only proven that fact again and again.

[Parkbandit]

I have to abide the law. Everyone else should too. Not sure why there are those that think they shouldn't. It's the price you pay.

time4fun is a liberal in the same mold as Hillary Clinton.

Rules and laws are meant for the common folk to follow.

[Parkbandit]

Stop. Just stop.

Don't treat my brother like he's probably either stupid or immoral. People like my brother are just trying to survive, and they do everything they can do to so.

So if you're going to boil the value of my brother's life down to the net gain or loss of his labor, don't be so heartless as to set the situation up to assume that people like him are too stupid or immoral to act logically.

He's not a rodent. He's not vermin. He's not a locust. He's not a pest.

He's a human being, and there is nothing about him that is any different from you.

He's a leech.

There is also another major difference.. my sister isn't a piece of shit and would help me in a moment's notice.

[Vorpos]

We need a PC gofundme to buy time4fun's family a new RV. I want them to be comfortable on their drive down to Mexico.

[Stumplicker]

We need a PC gofundme to buy time4fun's family a new RV. I want them to be comfortable on their drive down to Mexico.

Don't mind me. Just quoting this in case you decide to edit it after learning to read.

[time4fun]

Don't mind me. Just quoting this in case you decide to edit it after learning to read.

I'll never forget the first time we drove our RV- which were actually burros- up from our little village in Philippines, Mexico.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjjNOwdvVS4

[Androidpk]

We need a PC gofundme to buy time4fun's family a new RV. I want them to be comfortable on their drive down to Mexico.

She could just sell her blunt collection and buy one herself.

[Parkbandit]

She could just sell her blunt collection and buy one herself.

She could do a hundred different things.. but crying victim and "It's Trump's fault" is all she does.

[Vorpos]

Don't mind me. Just quoting this in case you decide to edit it after learning to read.

Did you read your screen name? Or do you really like licking stumps?

[Vorpos]

I'll never forget the first time we drove our RV- which were actually burros- up from our little village in Philippines, Mexico.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjjNOwdvVS4

You don't have to go home. You just can't stay here.

[Tgo01]

Trump was right about one thing; we are going to win so much we are going to get tired of winning.

Trump isn't even technically president yet and after reading/watching so much butthurt on the internet I'm getting a bit tired of winning already.

But it's still fun. Please, let the butthurt continue to flow at full speed.

For example I see a "petition" being passed around by my family on Facebook asking the electoral college to defy the voters and vote for Hillary.

So much lolz.

[Vorpos]

Trump was right about one thing; we are going to win so much we are going to get tired of winning.

Trump isn't even technically president yet and after reading/watching so much butthurt on the internet I'm getting a bit tired of winning already.

But it's still fun. Please, let the butthurt continue to flow at full speed.

For example I see a "petition" being passed around by my family on Facebook asking the electoral college to defy the voters and vote for Hillary.

So much lolz.

I honestly don't even care what he does. It's just so entertaining I can't take it. It's like living in a reality tv show 24/7.

[Jeril]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

[Methais]

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14993481_10154362000757535_4855539333502815170_n.j pg?oh=32aeeacd2e4717a61682a9e9aba09ef9&oe=58CC5B5C

[Taernath]

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/


Election results by county

But we can go further. We can do the same thing also with the county-level election results and the images are even more striking. Here is a map of US counties, again colored red and blue to indicate Republican and Democratic majorities respectively:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/countymaprb512.png

[time4fun]

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/

Turns out half of the country lives in about 140 counties.

I'll also point out that while the left loves to blame gerrymandering for all of their ills (and it IS a staggering political corruption issue), a big part of the problem is exactly that map. We congregate in a hand full of places (partially self-selection, partially what living in an incredibly diverse area does), which makes it hard to be a successful local movement.

[Wrathbringer]

Turns out half of the country lives in about 140 counties and is retarded.

fixed

[Methais]

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/

I'm not sure but I think the acid just kicked in.

[Gelston]

Election prediction being posted soon, I know you are all anxious.

[Methais]

So far none of the predictions I've seen are accurate.

Not one of them says shit about votes for Harambe.

[Gelston]

So far none of the predictions I've seen are accurate.

Not one of them says shit about votes for Harambe.

I'd have shot that ape too.

[~Rocktar~]

I'd have shot that ape too.

I would have shot the kid and the parents.

[Shaps]

Lock a wild animal up.. don't put in proper safeguards.. parents lose track of their kid.. kid lives...

Kill the animal anyways.

Good logic sounds like.

[Gelston]

Lock a wild animal up.. don't put in proper safeguards.. parents lose track of their kid.. kid lives...

Kill the animal anyways.

Good logic sounds like.

Yes, because even with all that, I still put human lives above animal lives.

[Shaps]

Yes, because even with all that, I still put human lives above animal lives.

Agree with you on that. Just love the logic of caging animals and then getting scared when they act like animals. Similar to that Siegfried and Roy tiger attack. All those theories about why the Tiger finally attacked.. maybe because it's a tiger? Just a thought.

Just one of those things that's always intrigued me.

[Gelston]

Agree with you on that. Just love the logic of caging animals and then getting scared when they act like animals. Similar to that Siegfried and Roy tiger attack. All those theories about why the Tiger finally attacked.. maybe because it's a tiger? Just a thought.

Just one of those things that's always intrigued me.

Yeah. The only animals I ever trust are dogs. And only my dogs. That I've had since they were babies.

[Parkbandit]

My crazy liberal sister is still not over the election. She literally believes that President Trump is Hitler 2.0

I told her she needs to step away from MSNBC and Huffington Post... she said she doesn't watch or read those sites.. she's only interested in unbiased sites.. and these are the sites:

berniesanders.com
Politifact
Naral
Sierra Club
NPR
NYT
WP
Al Jezeera
BBC

......

[Gelston]

Is your sister time4emo?

[Parkbandit]

Is your sister time4emo?

Not quite that bad.. my sister is at least intelligent and can hold a conversation.

But when she starts going off about 2 of her daughters dating jewish boys and she's worried about them because Trump is going to be President.. you know she's on the outskirts of Time4funville...

[ClydeR]

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/rmi08a/trump-tweet-popular_vote_zpskywmsuae.png
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664


Trump is right. They should definitely do a recount and deduct the illegal votes.

[Tgo01]

ClydeR, you lost. It's time to move on.

[Warriorbird]

Trudeau won. He didn't lose.

[Methais]

Yes, because even with all that, I still put human lives above animal lives.

Should have thrown the mom in to distract Harambe while the kid escapes, and then leave the mom in there to find her own way out.

People try to say all lives matter, but there are plenty out there that don't, regardless of race/religion/what genitals you want to pretend you have/etc.

[Gelston]

Should have thrown the mom in to distract Harambe while the kid escapes, and then leave the mom in there to find her own way out.

People try to say all lives matter, but there are plenty out there that don't, regardless of race/religion/what genitals you want to pretend you have/etc.

I think putting a bullet in there to find its own way out worked fine.

Also, Election prediction coming soon!

[Parkbandit]

Trump is on Fox News already referencing made up stories of voter fraud from today's voting, and he's getting aggressive about not being willing to commit to accepting the outcome.

This is going to be ugly. He's such a child, and he'll happily drag peoples' faith in democracy down so he doesn't have to admit a loss.

This thread keeps giving and giving...

[Tgo01]

This thread keeps giving and giving...

And that was actually on the day of the election. Too fucking funny.

[Parkbandit]

Trump is now favored for WI. If that's the case, this is almost impossible for her to win.

This is the scariest political moment in my lifetime

Holy shit, this thread is 5 fucking stars.

[Tgo01]

Don't forget the day before the election she had this gem to share:


Sorry Mr Rove, you still don't understand how elections work.

This was after she was so sure Hillary was going to carry Florida and PA based on early voting.

[Warriorbird]

Don't forget the day before the election she had this gem to share:



This was after she was so sure Hillary was going to carry Florida and PA based on early voting.

You actually predicted a more liberal Electoral College result than I did.

[Tgo01]

You actually predicted a more liberal Electoral College result than I did.

Yes but I've never been so happy to be wrong in my entire life.

[Gelston]

I know you folks are shuddering with anticipation, but I promise, my electoral college predictions will be released soon!

[Tgo01]

I know you folks are shuddering with anticipation, but I promise, my electoral college predictions will be released soon!

January 20th?

[Gelston]

January 20th?

I cannot confirm a date yet, the data is still being tabulated and collated. It will be in due time!

[Androidpk]

I know you folks are shuddering with anticipation, but I promise, my electoral college predictions will be released soon!

Wish you would hurry up so I can post my unadulterated prediction.

[Parkbandit]

Don't forget the day before the election she had this gem to share:

This was after she was so sure Hillary was going to carry Florida and PA based on early voting.

BUT HILLARY WON THE POPULAR VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Androidpk]

BUT HILLARY WON THE POPULAR VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even funnier are the people claiming she's gotten more votes than any other candidate in history. DELUSION!

[Ardwen]

And Trump just announced he is delay his business interests news conference til January. Guess the electoral college has to hope he divests instead of acting with some sort actual information about it.

[ClydeR]

Even funnier are the people claiming she's gotten more votes than any other candidate in history. DELUSION!

That claim is not true. But it would be true to say that she got move votes than any white man in history.

Here's another interesting claim that I've seen in several places..


Donald Trump lost the popular vote in last month’s US presidential election by a bigger margin than any other US president in history.

More... (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-lost-popular-vote-hillary-clinton-us-election-president-history-a7470116.html)

That statement is misleading when you first read it. You might think you read that Trump lost the popular vote by a bigger margin than any other candidate in history, but what it actually says is any other president in history. Since we've only had five instances in the history of the country of a president winning the electoral college without winning the popular vote, the statement can be both true and non-startling.

[Tgo01]

That statement is misleading when you first read it. You might think you read that Trump lost the popular vote by a bigger margin than any other candidate in history, but what it actually says is any other president in history. Since we've only had five instances in the history of the country of a president winning the electoral college without winning the popular vote, the statement can be both true and non-startling.

Who cares who won or lost the popular vote?

I don't hear the score of a baseball game and say "Yeah yeah that's great, but which team had the most errors? That's how you really decide the winner."

[Parkbandit]

And Trump just announced he is delay his business interests news conference til January. Guess the electoral college has to hope he divests instead of acting with some sort actual information about it.

Hoping the Electorial College will somehow vote for Hillary is a pipe dream.

[Androidpk]

Ironic that the dems who were so concerned about having a non-violent transfer of power when they thought Hillary was going to win, now seem to be bound and determined to push us into civil war after a Trump victory.

.

[Methais]

Who cares who won or lost the popular vote?

I don't hear the score of a baseball game and say "Yeah yeah that's great, but which team had the most errors? That's how you really decide the winner."


https://youtu.be/18caPNisP2U

[Ardwen]

Actually I posted it more because of the hypocrisy of it, He is rescheduling because he is too busy because he is spending all his time working on his cabinet and other critical appoiintments, yet he continues the ridiculous victory tour. I am no supporter of Hillary, I however am a supporter of Americans, and not just American Billionaires.

[BigWorm]

but what about her emails ardwen?

[Ardwen]

Damned if I know about her emails, Been so much spin about them we'll never know the truth, from either side, I do know I would like the 8 plus million dollars wasted investigating them repaid though, if these politicians want to go chasing wild geese they should spend their ow money, not ours. I so long for term limits and a clean house in Washington at this point, lets cut spending on healthcare, social security and veterans and use the money on raising ass blisters on politicians, No thank you. Three hundred fifty odd million americans, and these steaming piles of shit were the best we had to offer? Hell, maybe we deserve the mess we are in now. Corporate States of America is coming.

[Androidpk]

Don't be ridiculous. If they were to have to spend their own money they wouldn't and the House Oversight Committee would serve no purpose.

[drauz]

Hell, maybe we deserve the mess we are in now. Corporate States of America is coming.

It's already here.

[Archigeek]

Hoping the Electorial College will somehow vote for Hillary is a pipe dream.

It's worse than a pipe dream. It's the perfect example of some folks posturing for position, and others forgetting that bad things would happen when a small group overrides the will of the people. Barring CLEAR evidence that Trump himself somehow cheated, or somehow didn't win, the election needs to stand. Anything else would lead to utter chaos.

[Parkbandit]

Damned if I know about her emails, Been so much spin about them we'll never know the truth, from either side, I do know I would like the 8 plus million dollars wasted investigating them repaid though, if these politicians want to go chasing wild geese they should spend their ow money, not ours. I so long for term limits and a clean house in Washington at this point, lets cut spending on healthcare, social security and veterans and use the money on raising ass blisters on politicians, No thank you. Three hundred fifty odd million americans, and these steaming piles of shit were the best we had to offer? Hell, maybe we deserve the mess we are in now. Corporate States of America is coming.

8 million dollars wasted? She was defeated, hopefully never to hold another elected office again.

A very sound investment for America.

[Parkbandit]

It's worse than a pipe dream. It's the perfect example of some folks posturing for position, and others forgetting that bad things would happen when a small group overrides the will of the people. Barring CLEAR evidence that Trump himself somehow cheated, or somehow didn't win, the election needs to stand. Anything else would lead to utter chaos.

I'm sort of hoping a large group does do it... just to make the election close enough to let Hillary THINK she might stand a chance. Like states like FL, NC, MI and PA.. then only to have WI vote the way they are supposed to...

Then all the ones that broke the law by voting against the state vote going straight to jail.

It'll be like a brand new flow of tears.

DELICIOUS!

[rolfard]

Tacos

[Ardwen]

if you think spending 8 million dollars on that was better then disabled children, veterans with PTSD or the vast number of other serious issues this country faces there is something seriusly wrong with you. If you think this country will be better off with the disaster of a cabinet Trump is forming there is something wrong with your reasoning skills. We have not one but 3 bankers from Goldman Sachs, whom lets not forget Trump lambsted throughout the campaign and whom Trump owes hundreds of millions of dollars, that made millions off of the banking bailout. A wells Fargo boardmember that was in charge of hiring and firing executives while a massive scam was occurring there, a secretary of energy that wants to eliminate his own department, a secretary of education that doesn't believe in public schools. The list is comical if it wasn't what we are going to receive.

[Parkbandit]

if you think spending 8 million dollars on that was better then disabled children, veterans with PTSD or the vast number of other serious issues this country faces there is something seriusly wrong with you.

That's disingenuous and you know it. "OMG if you were for the Clinton investigation, then you hate children!" That 8 million dollars wasn't going to anything else.


If you think this country will be better off with the disaster of a cabinet Trump is forming there is something wrong with your reasoning skills.

Trump > Clinton

I picked the lesser of 2 evils. If you don't understand that, there is something wrong with your reasoning skills.


We have not one but 3 bankers from Goldman Sachs, whom lets not forget Trump lambsted throughout the campaign and whom Trump owes hundreds of millions of dollars, that made millions off of the banking bailout. A wells Fargo boardmember that was in charge of hiring and firing executives while a massive scam was occurring there, a secretary of energy that wants to eliminate his own department, a secretary of education that doesn't believe in public schools. The list is comical if it wasn't what we are going to receive.

Weren't you bitching and complaining that Trump was only nominating politicians.. and that he can't "drain the swamp" when he nominates them?

Let's be perfectly honest: You would find something to complain about if Trump nominated Pope Francis. He's not making these nominations to try and make people who were completely for Hillary happy.. because those people will never be happy.

[Ardwen]

I was never for Hillary, hell I am still not for Hillary. If you think Trump is the lesser evil, the you don't understand the meaning of Evil. I was bitching he was completely not draining the swamp, and if you took that to mean just politicians thats on you. Appointing billionaires that have done nothing in their lives but screw working Americans and major donors is hardly draining the swamp.

[Parkbandit]

I was never for Hillary, hell I am still not for Hillary.

I wasn't for Trump either.. but if it's between him or Hillary, I'll vote for him 100% of the time.


If you think Trump is the lesser evil, the you don't understand the meaning of Evil.

Oooookay? That's like your opinion man. Thankfully, not everyone's or that evil bitch would be President Elect.


I was bitching he was completely not draining the swamp, and if you took that to mean just politicians thats on you.

Then you don't understand what he means by "drain the swamp". He's referring to Washington DC as the swamp and all the career politicians who make it that way. If you took it some other way, then that's on you.


Appointing billionaires that have done nothing in their lives but screw working Americans and major donors is hardly draining the swamp.

Yes, yes... all billionaires are evil and they have gotten that way by screwing working Americans.

So, let's use you as an example. You are what most people would consider the richest person in GS4... clearly you must be evil and the only way you got there was by screwing working GS players.

[Gelston]

The liberal whining is real.

[Ardwen]

who said all billionaires? Goldman Sachs bankers responsible for tens if not hundreds of thousands of foreclosures however is another matter, but hey they still got thier bonuses, on our dime no less from bailout funds, and McConnell's wife who as a board member of wells fargo was at least aware of the massive fraud that was ongoing there on her watch is entirely another matter, plenty of Billionaires and Millionaires are great people but lots of them aren't too. I suppose you think Bannon and Flynn are both deserving of posts in our government too?

[Parkbandit]

who said all billionaires? Goldman Sachs bankers responsible for tens if not hundreds of thousands of foreclosures however is another matter, but hey they still got thier bonuses, on our dime no less from bailout funds, and McConnell's wife who as a board member of wells fargo was at least aware of the massive fraud that was ongoing there on her watch is entirely another matter, plenty of Billionaires and Millionaires are great people but lots of them aren't too. I suppose you think Bannon and Flynn are both deserving of posts in our government too?

You don't know any of these billionaires, but you have some preconceived notion that they are all bad BECAUSE they are billionaires and/or BECAUSE they work for some evil entity in your mind. I illustrated how silly that is with you in GS. To anyone on the outside, if they used the same type of metric you are using, would believe you are an evil asshole who preyed upon other players to build your fortune. I know that's not true.. you are probably one of the most generous people in the game.

I bet some of those evil billionaires are pretty decent people. I imagine even some people in ZOMG GOLDMAN SACHS are honorable people.. unless you think that only bad people would work for them?

As far as Bannon and Flynn go.. I expect that they will go through whatever review and approval process every other person has to go through. I don't see anything that would disqualify them from serving.

[Thondalar]

Goldman Sachs bankers responsible for tens if not hundreds of thousands of foreclosures however is another matter

If this concerns you, you should probably delve a little deeper into the things that allowed this to happen. People are going to abuse whatever system they're given. Although this particular thing happened recently, it is not unique in history.


but hey they still got thier bonuses

Well of course they did.


on our dime no less from bailout funds

Well, this came a bit later, but certainly something to be upset about. Again, look to the source. You wouldn't blame a dog for eating food you left out before you went away for the day.


and McConnell's wife who as a board member of wells fargo was at least aware of the massive fraud that was ongoing there on her watch is entirely another matter

A bit of a stretch. I can't imagine that any sitting board member was made aware of these things...at least not in an out-right manner. I'm with you that they probably had to assume something was fishy at some point, but you can't just pin the whole thing on one individual board member who also happens to be a politician's wife.


plenty of Billionaires and Millionaires are great people but lots of them aren't too.

Well, sure. Possession of wealth has never been an accurate metric of morality, in and of itself. People will be people, whether they're rich or poor. Blanket statements are always ignorant, regardless of context. <G>


I suppose you think Bannon and Flynn are both deserving of posts in our government too?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I've come this far, so why not.

I don't like Bannon, and I think Trump is an idiot for keeping him around, if for no other reason than it gives the haters ample ammunition. He is damaged goods....but this is very typical of a Trump. He doesn't give two shits about appearances...for whatever reason(s), he thinks this guy is his guy.

Obviously the left...or what people consider the left these days...is gonna latch on to every possible scrap of negativity in Bannon's history, and paint the picture they want...and to be honest, I can't really find much fault in that. The dude is not a dude I would choose to associate with if I were President. But Trump is most certainly not your average President.

Flynn...eh. I'm kinda torn. I like a lot of him, I don't like some of him. I guess that would fit my description of most people, though, so I'm willing to give it a go.

[Ardwen]

You do realize that neither Bannon nor Flynn have to go thru any process as they are advisors not cabinet members? Also you are okay with Flynn who according the the army gave classified information to at least 3 foreign governments? yet have an issue with Clinton who was according to all the investigations careless and may have possibly allowed information to get hacked? Also you think its oaky that bankers that LOST tens of billions dollars took bonus from bailout money? Bankers in other countries go to jail for what these bankers take bonuses for, ad in this case I don't mean just those at Sachs, and in the case of Chao, part of her purview on the board was the hiring and firing of executives, so yes I thin the odds favor her having knowledge of what was going on. And all this doesn't even get to the fact that Trump seemingly owes Sachs hundreds of million in loans, if you have no issue with someone he is massively in debt to being on his cabinet, good for you, unlike Trump, I do think he can have conflicts of interest, and he keeps creating new ones with his picks.

[Parkbandit]

You do realize that neither Bannon nor Flynn have to go thru any process as they are advisors not cabinet members?

Ah, very true. Didn't realize what position they were going for or if they needed confirmation.

While I don't have a problem with either of them in an advisory position, I don't know much about either. I know it upsets the liberals very much.. so that would make me lean heavily in favor of them being advisors.


Also you are okay with Flynn who according the the army gave classified information to at least 3 foreign governments? yet have an issue with Clinton who was according to all the investigations careless and may have possibly allowed information to get hacked?

Honestly, haven't paid much attention. Do you have a source of this I can read?


Also you think its oaky that bankers that LOST tens of billions dollars took bonus from bailout money?

I was against the bailouts from the get go.. same with the so called bullshit "stimulus" package. But they paid all the money back to the government and being that they are a company, whether or not they received bonuses or not isn't really a concern of ours. We aren't a socialist / communist country thankfully.


Bankers in other countries go to jail for what these bankers take bonuses for,

People get stoned to death in other countries too.. doesn't mean it's a good thing.


ad in this case I don't mean just those at Sachs, and in the case of Chao, part of her purview on the board was the hiring and firing of executives, so yes I thin the odds favor her having knowledge of what was going on.

Not even sure what you are trying to say here.


And all this doesn't even get to the fact that Trump seemingly owes Sachs hundreds of million in loans, if you have no issue with someone he is massively in debt to being on his cabinet, good for you, unlike Trump, I do think he can have conflicts of interest, and he keeps creating new ones with his picks.

I love the "seemingly" in there.

Politics is rife with conflicts of interest... even if you include all the "seemingly" stories.

[rolfard]

“I would use the greatest minds. I know the best negotiators. I’m in New York – I know the good ones, the bad ones. I always say: ‘I know the ones people think are good.’ I know people you’ve never heard of that are better than all of them.”

[Methais]

I know people you’ve never heard of that are better than all of them.

http://pre01.deviantart.net/c438/th/pre/i/2015/196/9/f/hipster_trump_by_avansaart-d91fjmu.jpg

[Thondalar]

You do realize that neither Bannon nor Flynn have to go thru any process as they are advisors not cabinet members?

Although PB already said a lot of the things I'm going to say, I'll go ahead and respond myself, since I assume this is in response to my previous post. I do realize that advisors don't require any "process". That's not something special just for Trump, though, so I don't see where it has any bearing on anything. I already voiced my displeasure with Bannon.


Also you are okay with Flynn who according the the army gave classified information to at least 3 foreign governments?

I said I'm mostly ok with Flynn. I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I do know that he retired from the Army after 33 years in Army Intelligence. I also know that he is a Democrat, and was appointed by Barack Obama to be the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. These are my main concerns with him. If anything, the Trump-haters should give him (Trump) some credit for not only keeping an Obama appointee around, but giving him a promotion.


yet have an issue with Clinton who was according to all the investigations careless and may have possibly allowed information to get hacked?

Not gonna re-open this can of worms, but yes. I do have an issue with the Secretary of State mishandling classified information.


Also you think its oaky that bankers that LOST tens of billions dollars took bonus from bailout money? Bankers in other countries go to jail for what these bankers take bonuses for, ad in this case I don't mean just those at Sachs,

Whoah, never said this. I was a strong opponent of the bank bailouts, the auto industry bailouts...if bad behavior doesn't result in direct consequences, people will continue their bad behavior. "Too big to fail" is pure idiocy, and we all suffered because of it.


and in the case of Chao, part of her purview on the board was the hiring and firing of executives, so yes I thin the odds favor her having knowledge of what was going on

Well, again, I think there had to be some sort of idea that something was going on, but I very much doubt the full scope of it was known, and there's no way it should rest squarely on her shoulders. Everyone who uses Wells Fargo for banking should go somewhere else, that'll show 'em.


And all this doesn't even get to the fact that Trump seemingly owes Sachs hundreds of million in loans, if you have no issue with someone he is massively in debt to being on his cabinet, good for you,

I admit I don't know anything about this. If you could provide a source of some kind, that would be great. I'm assuming it is some sort of business-related scenario, that Trump Industries or whatever the hell its called has outstanding debt with a major bank. I can't imagine how that would be news to anyone. Businesses, especially real estate, generally carry a great deal of temporary debt. These are business transactions, not Donald Trump personally owing X amount to Sachs CEO.

Regardless, Mnuchin doesn't even work for Goldman Sachs anymore, and hasn't for some time. The fact that he did, at some point, work for Goldman Sachs is really immaterial to anything. I think the anti-Trump crowd should be more focused on the fact that he chose another life-long Democrat to fill a very important Cabinet position.


unlike Trump, I do think he can have conflicts of interest, and he keeps creating new ones with his picks.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I DO think that Trump should step down from any sort of position with his company, as his kids seem pretty capable of handling it from here, and he needs to be completely focused on being President of this great nation.



edit: changed a "shouldn't" to a "should"

[Ardwen]

The seemingly in that post was because while the loans are known to have been made, Trump refuses to disclose an financial info about his dealings, that the sachs loan is also in partnershipw ith the bank of China is an issue, as is the 300+ million owed to Deutcshbank. And sorry but steppign down and letting the boys run things is not the same as divesting, since it seems quite likely that ya know he will talk to his kids, not to mention the apparent positioning of Ivanka and Kushner as "advisors" in the white house because ya know nepotism laws don't apply somehow. Turkey's government has already seized Trump's in country partners seemingly for leverage, whats to stop anyone else from the same?

[Parkbandit]

The seemingly in that post was because while the loans are known to have been made, Trump refuses to disclose an financial info about his dealings, that the sachs loan is also in partnershipw ith the bank of China is an issue, as is the 300+ million owed to Deutcshbank. And sorry but steppign down and letting the boys run things is not the same as divesting, since it seems quite likely that ya know he will talk to his kids, not to mention the apparent positioning of Ivanka and Kushner as "advisors" in the white house because ya know nepotism laws don't apply somehow. Turkey's government has already seized Trump's in country partners seemingly for leverage, whats to stop anyone else from the same?

You seem to be flinging tons of shit and hoping something actually sticks. Let's just agree that no matter what Trump does you won't like and we can move on.

[Gelston]

Election prediction still being worked on, will be posted soon.

[ClydeR]

Election prediction still being worked on, will be posted soon.


Are you waiting to see if the result changes based on the Mueller report's conclusion about Russian interference? It's being released on Thursday. If AG Barr doesn't redact that part, then it could make Clinton president retroactively, just in time for Easter, which is, after all, all about resurrection.

[Parkbandit]

Are you waiting to see if the result changes based on the Mueller report's conclusion about Russian interference? It's being released on Thursday. If AG Barr doesn't redact that part, then it could make Clinton president retroactively, just in time for Easter, which is, after all, all about resurrection.

Sorry. There is literally nothing, outside of her actually being elected in 2020, that would make her President.

I know this news will hurt your feelings and probably make you cry, but I felt you needed to hear the truth.

[Methais]

Sorry. There is literally nothing, outside of her actually being elected in 2020, that would make her President.

I know this news will hurt your feelings and probably make you cry, but I felt you needed to hear the truth.

ClydeR tries so hard now.

Don't be a try hard, ClydeTard.

[Fortybox]

Are you waiting to see if the result changes based on the Mueller report's conclusion about Russian interference? It's being released on Thursday. If AG Barr doesn't redact that part, then it could make Clinton president retroactively, just in time for Easter, which is, after all, all about resurrection.

:lol:

The amount of stupid in this post...

[Gelston]

Election prediction is still being worked on. I'll post it soon.

[Methais]

Page 1 hasn't aged well at all. :lol:

I'm too lazy to read past that.

[Gelston]

Page 1 hasn't aged well at all. :lol:

I'm too lazy to read past that.

This is a great thread where t4f goes completely fucking retarded in.

[Methais]

This is a great thread where t4f goes completely fucking retarded in.

Isn't that every thread she posts in though?

[Tgo01]

The original far leftist meltdown thread, where everyone with TDS came to comfort one another.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I hope everyone enjoys the new dictator.


This is the scariest political moment in my lifetime


Wonder if liberals will blame a loss on Russia.


We're about to elect a man who is going to be in a hearing for one of about a dozen fraud trials this month.


An authoritarian who abuses minorities for votes just got control of all three branches of government.


So I wonder how long until all those assholes from Hollywood move to Canada?


Only thing that could make this night any better is a full on meltdown from Vishra.


I wonder how long the children will riot because their piece of shit candidate lost fair and square.

OMG this thread is gold.

[Tgo01]

OMG this thread is gold.

Who would have guessed the answer to my question would be "never"?

[Methais]

OMG this thread is gold.

Especially this quote:


An authoritarian who abuses minorities for votes just got control of all three branches of government.


Talk about projection. :lol:

[Parkbandit]

Erm. Quinnipiac has Clinton up 5, PPP has her up 4, CNN has her up 4, Muhlenberg has her up 4.

Her ground game is also beating up the RNC/Trump ground game in PA.

So...keep dreaming.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/source.gif

[Parkbandit]

It's all real scary right now.

The secret voter swings it to Trump?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/source.gif

[Parkbandit]

Trump is now favored for WI. If that's the case, this is almost impossible for her to win.

This is the scariest political moment in my lifetime

https://media0.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/source.gifhttps://media0.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/source.gif

[Parkbandit]

Lucky.

I have a brother who has lived here most of his life. He's here illegally from the Philippines, and today I sat around and wondered how many more times I'm going to get to see him. If Trump does what he promised- will my brother be forced to leave? He barely knows the Philippines- this is his home. Where would he even go? He barely knows the family over there. And I know some of you here can't wait for my brother to leave because you feel like he's taking something from you, and he deserves it. And some of you will just find this so hilarious. But he's my brother. And I love him. And now I find myself wondering if in two years, he'll be at Christmas with us.

A colleague of mine showed up to work on the edge of tears today. Mike Pence is already talking about the LGBTQ rights he's looking forward to dismantling, and he's one of the most anti-gay elected officials in the country. He's responsible for one of the freedom to discrimination/freedom of religion bills. Her sister called her up sobbing, terrified of what this is going to mean for her. I broke down too- what does this mean for my other brother who happens to be gay? What about all of my friends?

I get how this is some major political victory for some people here. And how it's just hysterically funny to others. And I get how some of you just feel like this is no big deal- because for you it may not be.

But for some of us- this is beyond terrifying. I'm so scared for my family that I'm literally sick to my stomach.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/source.gifhttps://media0.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/source.gifhttps://media0.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/source.gifhttps://media0.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/source.gif

[Ashlander]

Man I sure hope her "brother" and "gay friends" are alright who knows what might happen to them. :nutty:

[Gelston]

Man I sure hope her "brother" and "gay friends" are alright who knows what might happen to them. :nutty:

She made up something about him being legal now. Amazing how years and years he was illegal, but Trump made it so he could get legalized. You should thank him, T4F.

[Parkbandit]

She made up something about him being legal now. Amazing how years and years he was illegal, but Trump made it so he could get legalized. You should thank him, T4F.

Made something up is the key words..

I'm trying to figure out what specifically is true that she has made claims of.. and I can't think of anything except that she is a female.

[Methais]

Man I sure hope her "brother" and "gay friends" are alright who knows what might happen to them. :nutty:

They're GMs now.

[Wrathbringer]

Oh gee, look. Final early voting numbers are in, and I was right! A total of 50k edge in Dem voters banked from yesterday alone.

Sorry Mr Rove, you still don't understand how elections work.


Like you know more than Mr. Rove. lol Also, if trump wins I'm going to seriously enjoy your qq. Just saying.

And I really have. Thanks, time4andraste, I hope you'll be just as entertaining this time around.

[Methais]

And I really have. Thanks, time4andraste, I hope you'll be just as entertaining this time around.

This is correct.

[Bhaalizmo]

I predict Trump explodes when he hears how badly he loses and runs out of Trump Tower groping pussies all down the street


https://youtu.be/WkZ5e94QnWk

[Jhynnifer]

To me, it's because I already know what I'm getting with Hillary. Trump is an unknown.. he was a liberal just what, 5 years or so ago? He could be like "HA! FOOLED YOU FUCKERS!" and be worse than Hillary, but it's the chance I had to take. I could never vote for Hillary for dog catcher and Trump gives me hope that he honestly wants to go in there and drain the swamp. I liked most things on his Contract with America (https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf), especially term limits, ending sanctuary cities, lobbyist ban, regulation elimination, etc...

Hi hi. I'm genuinely curious about how your viewpoint has or hasn't changed over time? No flame, the only trump supporters I see tend to be screaming loudly about how the election was stolen, or how the vaccine makes you magnetic... so hearing from someone I've always considered to be level-headed would be welcome.

[Gelston]

Hi hi. I'm genuinely curious about how your viewpoint has or hasn't changed over time? No flame, the only trump supporters I see tend to be screaming loudly about how the election was stolen, or how the vaccine makes you magnetic... so hearing from someone I've always considered to be level-headed would be welcome.

I'm fairly certain he still wouldn't have voted for Hillary.

[Parkbandit]

Hi hi. I'm genuinely curious about how your viewpoint has or hasn't changed over time? No flame, the only trump supporters I see tend to be screaming loudly about how the election was stolen, or how the vaccine makes you magnetic... so hearing from someone I've always considered to be level-headed would be welcome.

From a policy standpoint, I was very surprised by President Trump. He did what he said he would do. I could have done without the social media and crass "kiss my ass" attitude and he may have gotten even more done. I do believe he was against the political class and media from the very beginning and never was able to get past that enormous machinery.. but all in all I was happy with him as President.

[Methais]

From a policy standpoint, I was very surprised by President Trump. He did what he said he would do. I could have done without the social media and crass "kiss my ass" attitude and he may have gotten even more done. I do believe he was against the political class and media from the very beginning and never was able to get past that enormous machinery.. but all in all I was happy with him as President.

Watch this.






























Hey Ashlianus

[Gelston]

I am still tabulating my election prediction results. Stay tuned.

[Methais]

I am still tabulating my election prediction results. Stay tuned.

It's not gonna matter because Russia Investigation Heating Up (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?110469-Russia-Investigation-Heating-Up&highlight=russia+investigation)