Tyranny of the ATF

[Parkbandit]

Ok great, we agree. Now, doesn’t that violate my second amendment rights?

No. You violated your own 2nd amendment rights by impairing yourself. It's like if you are found guilty of a violent felony.. you violated your own 2nd amendment right.

[Suppressed Poet]

Ok great, we agree. Now, doesn’t that violate my second amendment rights?

Are you asking my personal take or legally?

Legally we must apply the Bruen standard which is that any restriction to an individual’s second amendment right must be in the history, text, and tradition at the time of the ratification of the Bill of Rights (1791). Without doing research I would imagine that there were in fact laws prohibiting drunk people from carrying a firearm.

My take, if you are going to exercise your second amendment right to carry that is a serious responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Being under the influence of something that lowers your inhibitions & rational thinking while in possession of a firearm is simply unsafe. Making the argument that such a law is a violation of one’s 2nd Amendment rights is the equivalent of saying laws against brandishing of a firearm or celebratory gun shots (like New Years or 4th of July) within city limits is a violation. In the words of Uncle Ben from Spider-Man “with great power comes great responsibility”.

[Solkern]

Are you asking my personal take or legally?

Legally we must apply the Bruen standard which is that any restriction to an individual’s second amendment right must be in the history, text, and tradition at the time of the ratification of the Bill of Rights (1791). Without doing research I would imagine that there were in fact laws prohibiting drunk people from carrying a firearm.

My take, if you are going to exercise your second amendment right to carry that is a serious responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Being under the influence of something that lowers your inhibitions & rational thinking while in possession of a firearm is simply unsafe. Making the argument that such a law is a violation of one’s 2nd Amendment rights is the equivalent of saying laws against brandishing of a firearm or celebratory gun shots (like New Years or 4th of July) within city limits is a violation. In the words of Uncle Ben from Spider-Man “with great power comes great responsibility”.

That’s great, I agree with you, 100%, now why can’t we apply your same very logic with documenting who buys guns from private citizens(who have a side job of selling firearms)? You know, It’s a serious responsibility to make sure the person you are selling to, is legally allowed to own and posses a firearm, wouldn’t you say?

Thanks for your well thought out answer!

[Methais]

That’s great, I agree with you, 100%, now why can’t we apply your same very logic with documenting who buys guns from private citizens(who have a side job of selling firearms)? You know, It’s a serious responsibility to make sure the person you are selling to, is legally allowed to own and posses a firearm, wouldn’t you say?

I'm in. Drunk people can't buy or sell guns until they sober up.



What problem should I solve next?

[~Rocktar~]

That’s great, I agree with you, 100%, now why can’t we apply your same very logic with documenting who buys guns from private citizens(who have a side job of selling firearms)? You know, It’s a serious responsibility to make sure the person you are selling to, is legally allowed to own and posses a firearm, wouldn’t you say?

Thanks for your well thought out answer!

Which other rights should we document when citizens attempt exercise them?

[Solkern]

I'm in. Drunk people can't buy or sell guns until they sober up.



What problem should I solve next?

And I’m sure if they made it a law that drunk people can’t buy guns from private citizens, you’d be going off on how it’s a violation of the second amendment.

[~Rocktar~]

And I’m sure if they made it a law that drunk people can’t buy guns from private citizens, you’d be going off on how it’s a violation of the second amendment.

All restrictions of lawful citizens buying owning, transporting and using firearms are violations of the Second Amendment.

[Suppressed Poet]

That’s great, I agree with you, 100%, now why can’t we apply your same very logic with documenting who buys guns from private citizens? You know, It’s a serious responsibility to make sure the person you are selling to, is legally allowed to own and posses a firearm, wouldn’t you say?

I appreciate the question and rational conversation on the matter.

I am absolutely for background checks and taking reasonable precautions that the person buying a firearm is legally allowed to possess one. It’s a common misconception that supporters of the 2nd Amendment oppose background checks all together, which simply isn’t true.

You said documenting who buys a firearm, and that is where it gets a little tricky… It’s illegal and goes against the 2nd Amendment for our government to have a national firearms registry (with the exception of NFA registered weapons like machine guns which is another matter that I won’t get into here). Why is that? I’m sure you have heard from people like me that registration leads to confiscation but perhaps nobody has explained that well. If the government has a list of every person that posses firearms & what kind, that can (and throughout history repeatedly has been) used for nefarious purposes of disarming its citizens.

When people say they want “universal background checks” and “closing the gun show loophole” let’s talk about what that really means. FFL dealers perform background checks. A private citizen doesn’t have the tools or resources to do so, and so currently one private individual selling to another isn’t required to perform a background check on the buyer. It’s important to note that it is a felony to knowingly sell a firearm to someone that legally cannot posses one.

I do object to a transaction between two private individuals to require a background check for a number of reasons. The biggest one of all, the only way to be able to enforce that as law is for the government to know who has the guns (a firearm registry). Think about it…how would the feds know that I sold a gun to my neighbor without a background check? The only way is to check a list to say that gun belonged to me and no background check was conducted on the buyer. This defeats the Second Amendment. That’s not the only reason I object to it, but I don’t want to make this super long & the reason I gave is the most important.

[Methais]

And I’m sure if they made it a law that drunk people can’t buy guns from private citizens, you’d be going off on how it’s a violation of the second amendment.

And I'm sure if your pseudo friends in Russia said that only poopyheads think that drunk people shouldn't be able to to buy guns from private citizens until they sober up, you'd be going off about how right they are.

[Suppressed Poet]

“The adoption of the Second Amendment was a freedom calculus decided long ago by our first citizens who cherished individual freedom with its risks more than the subservient security of a British ruler or the smothering safety of domestic lawmakers. The freedom they fought for was worth fighting for then, and that freedom is entitled to be preserved still,”

-Judge Benitez 2023