I’ll ask you the same thing, why not?Originally Posted by Gelston
Senior Member
I’ll ask you the same thing, why not?
Do you think a President should have the power to classify anything he wants? Say he wants to classify a magazine, should that be allowed? Should that hold up?
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
Senior Member
The President cannot just classify whatever they want. This was why Trump couldn't classify his "perfect call" with Zelensky.
28 CFR § 17.22 - Classification of information; limitations.
(a) Information may be originally classified only if all of the following standards are met:
(1) The information is owned by, produced by or for, or is under the control of the United States Government;
(2) The information falls within one or more of the categories of information specified in section 1.5 of Executive Order 12958; and
(3) The classifying official determines that the unauthorized disclosure of the information reasonably could be expected to result in damage to the national security and such official is able to identify or describe the damage.
(b) Information may be classified as Top Secret, Secret, or Confidential according to the standards established in section 1.3 of Executive Order 12958. No other terms shall be used to identify United States classified national security information except as otherwise provided by statute.
(c) Information shall not be classified if there is significant doubt about the need to classify the information. If there is significant doubt about the appropriate level of classification with respect to information that is being classified, it shall be classified at the lower classification of the levels considered.
(d) Information shall not be classified in order to conceal inefficiency, violations of law, or administrative error; to prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency; to restrain competition; or to prevent or delay release of information that does not require protection in the interest of national security. Information that has been declassified and released to the public under proper authority may not be reclassified.
(e) Information that has not previously been disclosed to the public under proper authority may be classified or reclassified after the Department has received a request for it under the Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552), the Privacy Act of 1974 (5 U.S.C. 552a), or the mandatory review provisions of § 17.31. When it is necessary to classify or reclassify such information, it shall be forwarded to the Department Security Officer and classified or reclassified only at the direction of the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, or the Assistant Attorney General for Administration.
(f) Compilations of items of information that are individually unclassified may be classified if the compiled information reveals an additional association or relationship that meets the standards for classification under Executive Order 12958 and that is not otherwise revealed in the individual items of information.
Last edited by Seran; 08-12-2022 at 09:47 PM.
Senior Member
I think you’re quoting the wrong part of the cfr. You definitely are as it pertains to the “perfect call.”
Senior Member
(d) Information shall not be classified in order to conceal inefficiency, violations of law, or administrative error; to prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency; to restrain competition; or to prevent or delay release of information that does not require protection in the interest of national security. Information that has been declassified and released to the public under proper authority may not be reclassified.
Senior Member
You’re quoting a reg that applies to information maintained by the Dept. of Justice. The perfect call was information maintained by the Office of the President. You’re quoting the wrong reg.
ETA: Pro tip, if you look at the top of the page, it’ll tell you the agency the reg applies to.
Last edited by Sighisoara; 08-12-2022 at 10:18 PM.
Senior Member
Pro-tip, the Department of Justice maintains the investigative arm of the federal government relating to internal security, CFR doesn't just apply to federal employees.28 CFR § 17.2 - Scope.
(b) This part applies to non-contractor personnel outside of the Executive Branch and to contractor personnel or employees who are entrusted with classified national security information originated within or in the custody of the Department. This part does not affect the operation of the Department's participation in the National Industrial Security Program under Executive Order 12829 (3 CFR, 1993 Comp., p. 570).
Senior Member
You're correct that Seran is quoting DoJ guidelines. But the particular pieces he cited come directly from Executive Order 12958, which pertains to all classified information across the Executive Branch. Basically they just copied key provisions from the EO into the DoJ guidelines to ensure compliance.
That same EO, by the way, also explicitly states that an original classification authority (which includes the President) must classify/declassify according to the procedures set out in the EO. It also clearly distinguishes a Presidential directive from classification/declassification. Classification/Declassification happens through the agency/authority who owns that information/document. The role of the President allows them to direct agencies to classify or declassify (except in a set of circumstances that Seran actually quoted from that appear to limit even the President), but it is not classified or declassified until the agency has done so according to the rules and procedures of the EO.
That part is less for you and more for other people who are trying to argue that Trump had psychic powers to silently declassify documents. He didn't- according to Presidential Executive Order. The only way he could have had that authority is if he had issued a new EO outlining it.
Last edited by time4fun; 08-13-2022 at 01:04 AM.
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