It isn’t necessarily illegal for a private citizen to be in possession of classified material. The way they obtained that could be illegal. Otherwise we’d have how many journalists in prison that received leaks?Originally Posted by Tgo01
It isn’t necessarily illegal for a private citizen to be in possession of classified material. The way they obtained that could be illegal. Otherwise we’d have how many journalists in prison that received leaks?
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
Not according to time4fun apparently.
Senior Member
No, I said the Biden Administration has the authority to decide what is and isn't classified right now. And so IF they continue to hold the same policy previous administrations have held (including Trump's) that anything with classification markers IS classified (which is literally the rule), and IF they communicated that to Trump then Trump is potentially in violation of Federal law. And by the way, Trump WAS repeatedly informed that refusing to hand this stuff over was a violation of Federal law.
Seriously Tgo. Just slow down and think things over a little bit. You're so busy trying to shoot things down that you don't take enough time to understand the nuance of the original argument.
Last edited by time4fun; 08-12-2022 at 08:54 PM.
You do realize the president runs the administration right?
I'm beginning to think you didn't take as many civic courses in college as you have led us all to believe.
I spit that hot FIYAAA!!!
Time4fun: When you frequently capitalize and bold certain words, is that to be read with emphasis in an even louder & more bitchy tone than what I imagine your normal speaking voice sounds like?
Senior Member
Yes. They decide what the rules are. And neither Trump nor Biden have changed the rule that there is a formal process to classify or declassify materials or the rule that states that anything with classification markers is, in fact, classified.
Also, for what it's worth, the statutes in question don't actually refer to information based on classification. It's about information one knows, suspects, or should have reasonably known would be damaging to national security if it were disclosed in an unauthorized manner. Even if it had been declassified, he could STILL be in violation of Federal law.
And finally- I notice that you're spending a lot of time talking about hypotheticals and side issues but no time talking about what TRUMP ACTUALLY did.
Last edited by time4fun; 08-12-2022 at 09:23 PM.
Senior Member
I thought I had read that agents from the National Archives went down there multiple times to review and retrieve documents. Wouldn’t that tend to show that he wasn’t intentionally refusing to hand stuff over?
Senior Member
I *think* it was just the FBI, on their behalf.
But we have to take a step back here. The *ONLY* reason why they showed up and forcibly removed those documents is because Trump abjectly refused. He even defied court subpoenas ordering him to return the documents. He was repeatedly told he wasn't legally allowed to keep those documents.
What IS clear is that he never once disclosed to them that he was sitting on classified information that represented grave risk to our national security. Even when they showed up repeatedly to take the documents, he still made no effort to make sure they were aware of these extra 20 boxes of records.
This is evidence of someone who was willfully trying to prevent the US Government from collecting records he knew he was legally required to turn over. And if this were anyone else in the world, they'd already be in prison serving a LONG sentence.
Senior Member
The President cannot just classify whatever they want. This was why Trump couldn't classify his "perfect call" with Zelensky.
28 CFR § 17.22 - Classification of information; limitations.
(a) Information may be originally classified only if all of the following standards are met:
(1) The information is owned by, produced by or for, or is under the control of the United States Government;
(2) The information falls within one or more of the categories of information specified in section 1.5 of Executive Order 12958; and
(3) The classifying official determines that the unauthorized disclosure of the information reasonably could be expected to result in damage to the national security and such official is able to identify or describe the damage.
(b) Information may be classified as Top Secret, Secret, or Confidential according to the standards established in section 1.3 of Executive Order 12958. No other terms shall be used to identify United States classified national security information except as otherwise provided by statute.
(c) Information shall not be classified if there is significant doubt about the need to classify the information. If there is significant doubt about the appropriate level of classification with respect to information that is being classified, it shall be classified at the lower classification of the levels considered.
(d) Information shall not be classified in order to conceal inefficiency, violations of law, or administrative error; to prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency; to restrain competition; or to prevent or delay release of information that does not require protection in the interest of national security. Information that has been declassified and released to the public under proper authority may not be reclassified.
(e) Information that has not previously been disclosed to the public under proper authority may be classified or reclassified after the Department has received a request for it under the Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552), the Privacy Act of 1974 (5 U.S.C. 552a), or the mandatory review provisions of § 17.31. When it is necessary to classify or reclassify such information, it shall be forwarded to the Department Security Officer and classified or reclassified only at the direction of the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, or the Assistant Attorney General for Administration.
(f) Compilations of items of information that are individually unclassified may be classified if the compiled information reveals an additional association or relationship that meets the standards for classification under Executive Order 12958 and that is not otherwise revealed in the individual items of information.
Last edited by Seran; 08-12-2022 at 09:47 PM.
Senior Member
I think you’re quoting the wrong part of the cfr. You definitely are as it pertains to the “perfect call.”
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