Russia Just Invaded Ukraine

[Methais]

On your first point of eliminating the filibuster would indeed allow for a high probability of drastic legislative and policy changes, the public would feel those immediate ramifications, and a likely result would be each party would be more accountable to the voting public and more carefully consider their positions…. I see your point and actually agree with you on those things happening if the filibuster ended. I am not, however, willing to be subjected to those radically different changes instituted by each party. Each party would each absolutely make sweeping changes when they gained power until they learned to play the long game, and that would be a painful experience for you & I (mass American public) both.

I don’t discount that we’re essentially a less effective / efficient federal government as a result of having the filibuster. I accept that inefficiency because quite frankly our federal government fucks things up ALL the time. Why do they deserve more power given our history?

If we boil down our fundamental political differences…. You are liberal or left leaning in the traditional American definition of that word because you believe the federal government is an instrument for solving many of the problems we face today. I’m conservative or right leaning in the American definition of that word because I believe the federal government should be small / mostly limited to foreign policy / defense / etc. and that decentralized local government & communities are a better instrument to solving many of the problems we face today. I’m not going to change you, you won’t change me…but I think there is still a lot that both sides can find middle ground on.

Tacos. Tacos are the universal middle ground.

[Methais]

Shaps already ruined the opportunity to have a learning lesson for Seran.

THANKS SHAPS YOU A-HOLE

No he didn't, because that would require Seran to understand the words that he was reading, and he'll probably end up doubling down on it.

[Seran]

Over 80% of all government spending is spent on garbage and wasted. With our current system of government spending of course a flat tax would not work. The funniest part is no tax works because congress just blows it.

The government needs to be ran like a business not an unlimited piggyback for all the pork projects that literally do nothing but waste money.


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Definetly agreed that a lot of the federal spending on projects tailored to earn votes in congress is wrong. It's bribery. What's worse is that a lot of the spending like modernizing power lines, water lines, environmental cleanup, etc., should be the responsibility of the states themselves and the companies to utilize the infrastructure. I think the exception can be made in guaranteed loans, but only if the federal government stops giving money to companies which are just grant mills.

Federal government should be responsible for the things I named, first and foremost. Secondary programs like cash welfare and childcare grants need to be phased out as parents need to be made responsible for the children they pop out. Food assistance to me is acceptable as no one should starve in our country.

[Sighisoara]

So we agree that while it may not explicitly state anything about a filibuster rule, the constitution does state both houses of congress are allowed to create whatever rules they want?

Yeah, I think that’s pretty basic. I can’t say I’m surprised that some on here would argue it, though.

[Bryce]

Taxes keep the poors poor, the middle class poor, and the Richs really don’t care in the long run

[Parkbandit]

Taxes keep the poors poor, the middle class poor, and the Richs really don’t care in the long run

How do taxes keep the poor poor.. if the poor get much more from the government than they pay into it?

Be specific.

[Bryce]

How do taxes keep the poor poor.. if the poor get much more from the government than they pay into it?

Be specific.

They get more income tax back. All the other taxes they don’t. Even indirect tax like traffic tickets. All fuck the poors.


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[Parkbandit]

They get more income tax back. All the other taxes they don’t. Even indirect tax like traffic tickets. All fuck the poors.

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What?

#1: A traffic ticket isn't a tax. That's like saying buying groceries is a tax. It's not.

#2: Poor people pay no income taxes and get money from the government in the form of welfare, housing, tax "refunds", etc.. Poor people gain far more than they put in.

When I asked you to be specific, I was talking about actual taxing.. not made up taxes like "traffic tickets"

[~Rocktar~]

Some interesting points:

[Seran]

What?

#1: A traffic ticket isn't a tax. That's like saying buying groceries is a tax. It's not.

#2: Poor people pay no income taxes and get money from the government in the form of welfare, housing, tax "refunds", etc.. Poor people gain far more than they put in.

When I asked you to be specific, I was talking about actual taxing.. not made up taxes like "traffic tickets"

Bryce is right in that over the last fifty years, both the poor and middle class have been getting poorer, while the wealthiest 1% thrive at the expense of all others.

Where the argument goes awry is that they get more income tax back. In reality, PB is quite right that refundable tax credits pay out far more than taxes are paid in. This has had the direct effect of stimulating the economy, but it's had the indirect and toxic effect of creating an expectation of entitlement. The idea someone can make X thousands of dollars in refundable credits, while having all of their needs met by welfare programs, or by concealing self employment, has spurred a desire to do the least amount possible to earn the highest benefit. It's not sustainable.

Corporations on the other hand /are/ suffering due to the labor participation rank beginning a really epic plunge since 2000. I don't know the reason for it and haven't researched it thoroughly, but one can look at the can of worms being cracked open in 1997 with the creation of refundable tax credits. Problem is now they're in place, no one really wants to be the party responsible to destroy them and both Democrats and Republicans have had a hand in increasing refundable credits.

So where are we now? Lower labor participation, an entitlement society, sensitivity and epic triggering of feels, but not solution. Hopefully it comes.