Portland.

[FlayedAngel]

That is a whole lot of words to say "If you don't think and act like I want you too then you are ignorant, unproductive, intractable and lack critical thinking skills. Can you be any more arrogant and condescending, really? This is the age old 'you should compromise your beliefs and views to get closer to mine because if you do that enough, I win without having to yield.'

Fuck off.

That was a whole of words to say that biases are bad and we should practice critical thinking on all sides... but if you feel that the shoe fits, feel free to lace that bitch up and wear it.

But sure... go fuck yourself, I guess?

[Tgo01]

the way it's being portrayed in some cases -- as I said -- is a flat-out lie.

And you accused me of repeating media spin.

The protest area itself is an incredibly small part of the city and the protests have remained largely peaceful

No offense but the phrase "largely peaceful" is just weasel words. It's just a way to downplay the violence.

In the CHAZ there were 3 murders, allegations of rape, theft, assault, and myriad other crimes, but were these reported on extensively? Not really, instead it was described as "mostly peaceful."

Likewise I have seen videos coming out of Portland of statues being pulled down and set on fire, buildings being set on fire, police being locked inside of their own precinct, police having projectiles thrown at them, people being assaulted, windows smashed, entire streets being shutdown, private property and public property destroyed, rioters trying to lock police inside of the federal courthouse and other shit. This is all very much violent and very illegal, hence why the federal government is getting involved. Rather than recognizing this Democrats will just say "These are mostly peaceful protesters." No one cares. No one cares that a harpy wants to screech on a street corner somewhere, no one is arresting said screeching harpy. We are talking about the violent elements. You should want the violent element to be arrested and charged and taken off the streets so those mean Republicans can't use them as a talking point anymore. But that's not the way the Democrat party gets votes and power, they have to divide people and make it look like Republicans are cracking down on free speech.

Is this the response equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?"

Yes, that is me pointing out that arguments based on nothing but emotion don't mean much because everything you just said about me I could easily say about you.

but sure... undesignated feds dragging citizens into unmarked civilian vehicles without evidence or probable cause is totally constitutional, and has absolutely no parallels to anything else in history.

Now you're just flat out making things up. Where did you get the idea that they are arresting or detaining these people without evidence or probable cause? Let me guess, from videos and statements from the rioters themselves?

Again weasel words: claim the protests are "largely peaceful" and thus ignore the violent element of the "protests" then you can claim that the feds have no reason to arrest or detain anyone because they are all peaceful...except they're not, remember? They are "largely" peaceful.

[~Rocktar~]

I actually live here. The protest area itself is an incredibly small part of the city and the protests have remained largely peaceful, so the narrative of a "city on fire" and "gripped by violence" is a blatant exaggeration (see above).

Keep repeating the Leftist playbook. The number of assaults, beatings, rapes and murders in the "incredibly small part of the city" from "largely peaceful" protests suggest that you are full of shit.

Extreme biases are bad and something to be avoided, that's just a fact.

Again more of the lovely bullshit of trying to seam reasonable while supporting abject crap in an attempt to sway others to your POV.

I was remarking that your chain of logic was fallacious due to attacking (or presuming) motive in all cases; you assume the worst of all Democrats, and decry those assuming the worst of Trump, which is not terribly shocking. Neither are perfect entities, and MISTAKES WERE MADE seems to be shaping up to be the theme of the year all around.

I am far past worrying about such false arguments about motives and intentions when it comes to Democrats and in politics in general. The saying goes "The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The Democrat leadership of your city and the region has allowed riots, arson, rape, assault and murder to go on without abatement, they have ordered the police to stand down and allowed parts of the city to burn. When the police sought to escort EMS to the scene of the murders to help the victims, then the "mostly peaceful" protesters attacked them and drove them off, mostly likely exacerbating the treatment of the victims and possibly aiding in assuring the death of a victim.

The Democrat "leadership" of your city and region has sown the wind and the citizens are reaping the whirlwind and paying the price in blood for it. Time for the "good intentions" to be set aside, order to be restored and the average citizen to be protected, which is what our governments are supposed to be doing in the first place.

I don't follow Nancy Pelosi, but sure... undesignated feds dragging citizens into unmarked civilian vehicles without evidence or probable cause is totally constitutional, and has absolutely no parallels to anything else in history.

Your knowledge of law and history or lack of it is glaring. There is no law that requires law enforcement to wear a particular uniform or use marked vehicles. There is PLENTY of probable cause for them to arrest and detain the people they are picking up. Those people are being taken to a federal building, advised of their Miranda rights, questioned and either booked for prosecution or released. All of this is 100% legal, constitutional and even based on the accounts of some of the idiots being arrested, being done without much real violence and harm to the individual.

No one has "disappeared" no one is being shipped to Guantanamo, no waterboarding, no rubber hoses and because of the tactics being used, no one is being seriously hurt and the average citizenry is not being endangered.

Believe it or not, you can be detained for 48 hours on just about anything. You can be questioned about anything. And you can assert your Miranda rights at any time.

All of this is far more legal, constitutional and ethical than the siege of Waco, siege of Ruby Ridge, capture of Elian Gonzales, the IRS abuse of Conservative non-profits, arming of drug gangs, FISA court abuse and a huge host of other local, state and federal law enforcement abuses under Democrat leadership in the last 30 years. So spare us your whiny indignation that the criminal "mostly peaceful" protesters are being detained to determine who needs to be criminally prosecuted for the long laundry list of crimes your local and state "leadership" have incited, ignored and encouraged.

[FlayedAngel]

And you accused me of repeating media spin.

Because I linked an accurate article that both expresses and is supported by what I've experienced? 'Kay.

No offense but the phrase "largely peaceful" is just weasel words. It's just a way to downplay the violence.

"Largely peaceful" in the context I used it refers to the fact that the majority of the protests -- and protesters -- have been peaceful, thus the "largely" and not entirely. Not really sure what nomenclature you'd prefer me to use, but that's just a fact; protests have happened day-in and day-out with little incident, it's largely when law enforcement becomes antagonistic during protests about police brutality that things have turned ugly. Shockingly.

One could use that phrase to downplay violence, sure -- I wasn't. Conversely, conflating all protesters (violent and non-violent) together is just another tactic to inflate and magnify the impression of violence and destruction.

In the CHAZ there were 3 murders, allegations of rape, theft, assault, and myriad other crimes, but were these reported on extensively? Not really, instead it was described as "mostly peaceful."

By who? Have I mentioned or was I talking about the CHAZ at all? Have I described the CHAZ as mostly peaceful? That wasn't the subject.

I get what you're saying, and again -- for the fourth time -- I'm not disputing that crime has occurred, or that it won't continue to happen with or without protests. Again: there are always going to be opportunists, straight-up anarchists, and other elements... but these are a minority of both persons and incidents.

Likewise I have seen videos coming out of Portland of statues being pulled down and set on fire, buildings being set on fire, police being locked inside of their own precinct, police having projectiles thrown at them, people being assaulted, windows smashed, entire streets being shutdown, private property and public property destroyed, rioters trying to lock police inside of the federal courthouse and other shit. This is all very much violent and very illegal, hence why the federal government is getting involved. Rather than recognizing this Democrats will just say "These are mostly peaceful protesters."

"They'll" say that because they are mostly peaceful protesters, not sure what your point is or how many times I need to repeat it. This is not unilateral violence; there are violent protesters, but police brutality is also very much a thing whether you want to acknowledge it or not. That's kind of been the whole point of the protests. I've seen law enforcement antagonizing non-hostile and non-confrontational protesters, staged scenes, tear gas used with absolutely no provocation, force used without necessity, and people severely injured by "non-lethal" rounds used in grossly improper ways. Oh, but there was that one lady who straight-up scared the cops off with her nudity.

Portland has not been "under siege for 47 straight days by a violent mob and lawless anarchists" -- that's fabricated bullshit.

No one cares. No one cares that a harpy wants to screech on a street corner somewhere, no one is arresting said screeching harpy.

You're referring to the BLM protests? Wow, someone isn't going to win any cultural sensitivity awards.

Yes, that is me pointing out that arguments based on nothing but emotion don't mean much because everything you just said about me I could easily say about you.

I could say literally anything about you, that doesn't make it true. Deflecting isn't a response, and my arguments haven't been based on emotion.

Now you're just flat out making things up. Where did you get the idea that they are arresting or detaining these people without evidence or probable cause? Let me guess, from videos and statements from the rioters themselves?

In fairness to you, that is a valid point of contention. I've read reports, and apparently they're acting without explicit approval of the mayor, the state, or local municipalities (the ACLU has filed lawsuits about this) and there's a fair amount of confusion; to circle back to my original point, however, I'm taking a good deal of the news as it comes out with a grain of salt.

[FlayedAngel]

Keep repeating the Leftist playbook. The number of assaults, beatings, rapes and murders in the "incredibly small part of the city" from "largely peaceful" protests suggest that you are full of shit.

Feel free to show me these stats, then.

Just curious, are you including the assaults, beatings, rapes, and murders committed by law enforcement and other agencies, or no?

Again more of the lovely bullshit of trying to seam reasonable while supporting abject crap in an attempt to sway others to your POV.

I get it... you've got a real hard-on for Democrats, blah blah blah. I don't really give a shit what you believe, all you've demonstrated so far is that you're an asshole.

I am far past worrying about such false arguments about motives and intentions when it comes to Democrats and in politics in general. The saying goes "The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The Democrat leadership of your city and the region has allowed riots, arson, rape, assault and murder to go on without abatement, they have ordered the police to stand down and allowed parts of the city to burn. When the police sought to escort EMS to the scene of the murders to help the victims, then the "mostly peaceful" protesters attacked them and drove them off, mostly likely exacerbating the treatment of the victims and possibly aiding in assuring the death of a victim.

The Democrat "leadership" of your city and region has sown the wind and the citizens are reaping the whirlwind and paying the price in blood for it. Time for the "good intentions" to be set aside, order to be restored and the average citizen to be protected, which is what our governments are supposed to be doing in the first place.

You sound like the blurb for a Tom Clancy novel that we'd all rather forget.

Your knowledge of law and history or lack of it is glaring. There is no law that requires law enforcement to wear a particular uniform or use marked vehicles. There is PLENTY of probable cause for them to arrest and detain the people they are picking up. Those people are being taken to a federal building, advised of their Miranda rights, questioned and either booked for prosecution or released. All of this is 100% legal, constitutional and even based on the accounts of some of the idiots being arrested, being done without much real violence and harm to the individual.

Peachy, I'll be sure to pass along that there's no need to worry about credentials the next time someone is thrown in the back of an unmarked van for protesting abuse of power; after all, hey... it might be legit, and not at all a hate crime about to happen.

All of this is far more legal, constitutional and ethical than the siege of Waco, siege of Ruby Ridge, capture of Elian Gonzales, the IRS abuse of Conservative non-profits, arming of drug gangs, FISA court abuse and a huge host of other local, state and federal law enforcement abuses under Democrat leadership in the last 30 years. So spare us your whiny indignation that the criminal "mostly peaceful" protesters are being detained to determine who needs to be criminally prosecuted for the long laundry list of crimes your local and state "leadership" have incited, ignored and encouraged.

Yeah, you're a real free-thinking patriot. Spare me your fulmination, if you want to talk past me about the evils of democracy... go for it.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Just curious, are you including the assaults, beatings, rapes, and murders committed by law enforcement and other agencies, or no?

The overwhelming and vast majority, I'd go so far as to say greater than 99%, of LEO encounters have zero of that. You are being intellectually dishonest even stating it. I say pull LEOs and Feds out of Oregon entirely and let it fucking burn to the ground. All the hippies can have sit ins and hug each other while the criminals assault, beat, rape and murder them. Or better yet, call the community organizer or the mental health specialist and they can get in on the action also.

If it's not clear, I hope your city gets what it's asking for.

[Neveragain]

The overwhelming and vast majority, I'd go so far as to say greater than 99%, of LEO encounters have zero of that. You are being intellectually dishonest even stating it. I say pull LEOs and Feds out of Oregon entirely and let it fucking burn to the ground. All the hippies can have sit ins and hug each other while the criminals assault, beat, rape and murder them. Or better yet, call the community organizer or the mental health specialist and they can get in on the action also.

If it's not clear, I hope your city gets what it's asking for.

Wait till this is done and over with. Suddenly they will want the fed's involved when they put their hands out and ask for federal dollars to rebuild their shit. Just like Minneapolis did.

Portlands "peaceful protesters" looting a jewelry store:

[Neveragain]

Portlands "peaceful protesters" looting a Louis Vuitton store:

[Parkbandit]

Wait till this is done and over with. Suddenly they will want the fed's involved when they put their hands out and ask for federal dollars to rebuild their shit. Just like Minneapolis did.

Portlands "peaceful protesters" looting a jewelry store:

There are leftists out there that legit believe that this is an example of peaceful protesting. No one was killed.. big deal, some property of obviously a rich, white asshole was taken.

[Parkbandit]

Portlands "peaceful protesters" looting a Louis Vuitton store:

And you know they are good people because most of them are wearing masks to protect others from Covid-19!