More Obamacare fuckups

[Parkbandit]

Since you're apparently unaware

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

I just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page.. that way you couldn't use the old "But I was talking about [insert different loan here]" routine.

So.. we've established that the banks were approving people for loans that the bank knew they couldn't afford and certainly couldn't pay back later on down the road...

Is there some sort of government regulation that was put into place to, oh, I don't know.. maybe purchase these loans and guarantee them?

It's curious how you suggest I blame companies for everything bad. It's like you blanked out about five years of Bush Presidency and the whole Republican Congress already. Not to mention my dissatisfaction with Obama being so naive and the performance of the Democratic Congressional leadership. You even forgot poor Ayn Rand. Ride that train though.

I was disputing that I only blamed companies.

I never said "everything" bad. Just an incredible amount.

[Warriorbird]

Neither is what you've listed as a corporation what we would think of as a modern corporation. The emergence of banking allowed merchants to build empires that rivaled politicians for the first time in human history...the rise of the "middle class".

Publicani were very close. Rome had a middle class. So did ancient India. Banking certainly enabled expansion though.

[Warriorbird]

I just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page.. that way you couldn't use the old "But I was talking about [insert different loan here]" routine.

So.. we've established that the banks were approving people for loans that the bank knew they couldn't afford and certainly couldn't pay back later on down the road...

Is there some sort of government regulation that was put into place to, oh, I don't know.. maybe purchase these loans and guarantee them?

So your next step is when you declare that the banks and deregulating politicians did nothing wrong and it was just the private citizens and the government. Get back to me when you're done.

[Thondalar]

Publicani were very close. Rome had a middle class. So did ancient India. Banking certainly enabled expansion though.

Societates Publicanorum...yeah, still not the same thing. In the context of the day I guess it would be remotely similar...I'm sure you realize I'm talking more about the European economies at the time from whence we sprung, not ancient times. It's well documented that certain ancient cultures were more "advanced" in certain ways than their medieval counterparts, but that has little affect on modern times, since we sort of fell backwards before coming forwards again.

[Thondalar]

So your next step is when you declare that the banks and deregulating politicians did nothing wrong and it was just the private citizens and the government. Get back to me when you're done.

I can't speak for PB, but I would say everyone involved was wrong all the way around, on this. To place blame on any one part of the whole is to ignore reality and push an agenda.

[Warriorbird]

I can't speak for PB, but I would say everyone involved was wrong all the way around, on this. To place blame on any one part of the whole is to ignore reality and push an agenda.

You'd be right.

[Parkbandit]

So your next step is when you declare that the banks and deregulating politicians did nothing wrong and it was just the private citizens and the government. Get back to me when you're done.

And your next step is to blame the banks, deregulation and that the private citizen and government did nothing wrong.

Oh, and blaming the companies.

[Parkbandit]

I can't speak for PB, but I would say everyone involved was wrong all the way around, on this. To place blame on any one part of the whole is to ignore reality and push an agenda.

I have no problem with that.. the banks clearly gave the loans to people who couldn't afford them.. and the people knew they would be fucked (or should have known) when the balloon hit..

But if the government didn't buy / guarantee these loans.. the banks wouldn't have given them and the people wouldn't have been so eager to get credit that they knew they didn't earn.

The banks aren't in the business to give loans to people that can't afford them. We should let them give loans that they believe can repay them and when they make a bad loan.. let them learn the lesson instead of bailing them out.

[Warriorbird]

I have no problem with that.. the banks clearly gave the loans to people who couldn't afford them.. and the people knew they would be fucked (or should have known) when the balloon hit..

But if the government didn't buy / guarantee these loans.. the banks wouldn't have given them and the people wouldn't have been so eager to get credit that they knew they didn't earn.

The banks aren't in the business to give loans to people that can't afford them. We should let them give loans that they believe can repay them and when they make a bad loan.. let them learn the lesson instead of bailing them out.

Because rather than bail them out we should let our entire financial system collapse. Eh.

And your next step is to blame the banks, deregulation and that the private citizen and government did nothing wrong.

Oh, and blaming the companies.

If this were your alternate universe I wouldn't have talked about how we needed Glass-Stegall back for years and that the Republican and Democratic Parties both messed up. But yeah.

[Thondalar]

Because rather than bail them out we should let our entire financial system collapse. Eh.

Well, yes. We're only setting ourselves up for a greater failure in the long run by artificially propping the system up.