Dumb things conservatives say:

[Parkbandit]

And what does this have to do with the discussion or specifically Jarvan's contention that Europe sucks countered by a few other people who said that Germany's doing well? From that convo. you bring up E v. W Germany circa pre 1990. Are you just reminding us all that Soviet Style government wasn't any good? If so, thank you for that, but we know already. Are you comparing Obama's administration to the former E. Germany? Are you recommending that we follow Germany's example? I support that too. Socialized medicine, strong worker rights, higher taxes and state funded higher education. It sounds like a good plan but I don't see the U.S. right getting behind it too much.

It's like we speak two different languages...

Follow the thread. Start off with WB's post about how the GOP has no positive solutions at all. Someone then mentioned Europe failures, then how Germany was doing well. Germany is an example (prior to unification in 1990) of a country being split in 2 and one using capitalism and one using communism and how utterly different the economic results were.

That was all. Don't hurt your brain trying to think it's something else.

Ya trolling. He made a point about the do-nothing GOP when he said that nothing they've proposed works and they just seem to be against everything. Instead of addressing his concerns in a mature way you challenged him to tell you what the Dems are doing. Be a man and address his point. He's not alone in thinking this way and it's going to come up in the next two election cycles. Latrin also said that whatever Obama did to get us out of the recession was a good thing. Obviously that was tongue in cheek but you completely ignored it too.

Now you're playing the victim card saying that he's not answering your questions. You've got some balls to act like a victim here. Warriorbird and Latrin both deserve some cogent response to their points. Maybe then we'll get to answering your troll posts.

lolwut?

Here.. let me copy/paste the two posts in questions. No one is trolling anyone else.. except maybe you... but I honestly do not think you are trolling, but rather too stupid to understand the simple progression of a conversation.

Your party, which you've lied about for years, presents no positive alternatives. Your fake party is even worse and has done nothing but damage America further.

To which I responded with this post:

The GOP offers no positive alternatives.. or you hold such blind hatred for anything non-liberal that you can't even manage to see anything?

Not really. None of the proposed "solutions" work and the party seems focused on solely opposition.

Give some specific examples of what a good liberal plan is (that's working or will work) and the counter GOP plan that doesn't work.

If there isn't a single GOP proposed solution that would/have worked, then it should be a relatively simple task to put down some examples. I'm not playing the victim card at all.. I simply asked a question and so far, WB can't/won't answer it.

But.. in your warped reality, I'm the guy who somehow owes an answer to this thread.

Too funny.

[Latrinsorm]

Of course.. YOU are claiming that the "intellectual" powers of the Liberals ARE so much better.

BTW.. how is the EU doing these days? How's Greece?

Do you think Greece was run by a liberal party before its economic collapse? As for the EU as a whole, it's true that they suffered a double dip recession where we did not. If Obama is a socialist, it follows that the EU's problem was not being liberal enough, no?

It was a clear cut example of what economic system works and what doesn't. Same time, same country.. each half used a different system. One succeeded, one failed miserably.

It is true that East Germany did not have the GDP per capita of West Germany in 1990, but do you have data for the other 50 years? This is an honest question, I can't find any online. I would guess that the picture looks different if we pick a date when the West was in recession.

[cwolff]

It's like we speak two different languages...

Follow the thread. Start off with WB's post about how the GOP has no positive solutions at all. Someone then mentioned Europe failures, then how Germany was doing well. Germany is an example (prior to unification in 1990) of a country being split in 2 and one using capitalism and one using communism and how utterly different the economic results were.

That was all. Don't hurt your brain trying to think it's something else.



lolwut?

Here.. let me copy/paste the two posts in questions. No one is trolling anyone else.. except maybe you... but I honestly do not think you are trolling, but rather too stupid to understand the simple progression of a conversation.



To which I responded with this post:








If there isn't a single GOP proposed solution that would/have worked, then it should be a relatively simple task to put down some examples. I'm not playing the victim card at all.. I simply asked a question and so far, WB can't/won't answer it.

But.. in your warped reality, I'm the guy who somehow owes an answer to this thread.

Too funny.

Ya, it's like I said. Warriorbird brought up some concerns about the GOP. You failed to address that, in fact you ignored it with this tit for tat bullshit.

WB: the GOP has no positive solutions and is solely focused on Opposition.
PB: Oh ya, what's the left do? Answer the question, you're avoiding it.

Is that the extent of your ability to discuss complex issues? Maybe that's your comfort zone and an actual discussion is a secondary goal which lags far behind your number one goal of just calling people names without actually bringing a thing to the conversation.

At least try. Try to talk like a reasonable person. Express ideas of your own. Come up with new perspectives. The sum of your PC time is spent either in personal attacks or repeating GOP talking points. You say you're smart, you say you're this successful business guy; then contribute. Don't just be a knee-jerkoff reactionary.

[Latrinsorm]

knee-jerkoff

I'll admit I've heard of those videos, but I don't get the attraction. It seems like it would be dry and significantly asymmetrical.

[Parkbandit]

Ya, it's like I said. Warriorbird brought up some concerns about the GOP. You failed to address that, in fact you ignored it with this tit for tat bullshit.

WB: the GOP has no positive solutions and is solely focused on Opposition.
PB: Oh ya, what's the left do? Answer the question, you're avoiding it.

WB: The GOP has no positive solutions.
PB: Can you give me some examples of where liberal ideas are working properly and the conservative alternatives offer no positive solutions?
cwolff: OMG U R TROLLING POOR WB! LEAVE HIM ALONE! HE DOESN"T HAVE TO ANSWER THAT, WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER THAT! YOU JERKOFF MEANIE POOPIE HEAD!!

Is that the extent of your ability to discuss complex issues? Maybe that's your comfort zone and an actual discussion is a secondary goal which lags far behind your number one goal of just calling people names without actually bringing a thing to the conversation.

At least try. Try to talk like a reasonable person. Express ideas of your own. Come up with new perspectives. The sum of your PC time is spent either in personal attacks or repeating GOP talking points. You say you're smart, you say you're this successful business guy; then contribute. Don't just be a knee-jerkoff reactionary.

WB was making a statement.. I simply asked him to give me some examples.

I don't know why you are getting so upset. I wasn't expecting him to step up and back up his claims with a couple of examples anymore than I would expect you to post in an intelligent fashion.

But seriously Backlash 2.0... carry on with your stupidity. It's almost entertaining.

[Latrinsorm]

It was a clear cut example of what economic system works and what doesn't. Same time, same country.. each half used a different system. One succeeded, one failed miserably.

Man, I've been looking into this more and it's really fascinating. Obviously we have to know where each Germany started before we can declare any level of success, and the starts of each Germany are pretty murky.

West
We loaned them $1.5b (1950) in the Marshall Plan, but then we forgave at least half of that debt as well as half of the reparations from WWI. They also didn't pay anything to the East until the 70s.

East
The USSR politely asked Poland and other Eastern Bloc states to waive some % of reparations due to them from East Germany, then politely asked East Germany to give it all to them instead to the tune of $10b (1950).

Additionally, it's not at all clear how natural resources were divided between the two. For instance, in 1970 West Germany went 9/49/43 in agriculture/industry/services and East Germany went 13/49/38. There has also been a very strong tendency since reunification to reunify the historical stats of the states. Consider this page as one of very very many that cheerfully lists a single Germany for 1970. There's a lot of context and misinformation going on, is my point.

.

But we can still find the figures: from this source we see that in 1950 West Germany had (213,942 / 49,983) / (51,412 / 18,388) = 53.1% higher GDP per capita, 70.8% higher in 1973, and 266.4% higher in 1990. Obviously, the narrative of capitalism vs. socialism makes no sense. Why would capitalism work from 1973-1990 and not from 1950-1973? Well, it turns out that West Germany suffered a severe recession in the late 60s, and in response a new Minister of Economics was appointed(?). What sort of economist was he?

"Schiller followed a different concept from Erhard's. He was one of the rare German Keynesians, and he brought to his new tasks the unshakable conviction that government had both the obligation and the capacity to shape economic trends and to smooth out and even eliminate the business cycle."

"The SPD-FDP coalition expanded the West German social security system, substantially increasing the size and cost of the social budget. Social program costs grew by over 10 percent a year during much of the 1970s, introducing into the budget an unalterable obligation that reduced fiscal flexibility (although Schiller and other Keynesians believed that it would have an anticyclical effect)."

It's important to note that in the short term these plans were wildly unsuccessful and castigated, and everyone involved was voted out of office... and yet from 1973-1990 West Germany dominated East Germany's growth. Okay, what was going on in East Germany around that time? Well, they avoided the 60s recession entirely while using the New Economic System, a mild decentralization and capitalization of the economy. Worked great! Then in 1971 the decision-makers naturally decided to return to a fully socialist economy, and that was that.

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The moral of the story, as always, is that capitalism vs. socialism is a false (and rather inane) dichotomy. The most successful economies of the past century have been mixed: West Germany, Japan, China, the United States.

[Gelston]

Additionally, it's not at all clear how natural resources were divided between the two. For instance, in 1970 West Germany went 9/49/43 in agriculture/industry/services and East Germany went 13/49/38.

West Germany wins, they can work at 101% as opposed to a puny 100%.

[cwolff]

I'll admit I've heard of those videos, but I don't get the attraction. It seems like it would be dry and significantly asymmetrical.

True. It also proves the axiom that the only difference between pink and purple is the grip.

[waywardgs]

True. It also proves the axiom that the only difference between pink and purple is the grip.

[Warriorbird]

At least try. Try to talk like a reasonable person. Express ideas of your own. Come up with new perspectives. The sum of your PC time is spent either in personal attacks or repeating GOP talking points. You say you're smart, you say you're this successful business guy; then contribute. Don't just be a knee-jerkoff reactionary.

Don't worry. He's just not capable any more. The Emperor has no clothes. He really has no better alternatives. All he can do is try to pass the buck, throw out insults, or source arguments from elsewhere and not back them up.