You still like Trump? [Archive] - Page 3 - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Tgo01

01-30-2017, 07:59 PM

I'm sure you'll all be shocked to hear that the Trump line of "only 109 were affected" by the EO is off by a few orders of magnitude:

But all of these numbers fail to provide the full picture. The real number is about 90,000.

According to State Department statistics, that’s how many people received either nonimmigrant or immigrant visas from the seven affected countries in fiscal year 2015. That’s the most recent data available, and different types of visas are available for different lengths of time, but it serves as a usable proxy for the likely universe of people affected by Trump’s travel ban.

So now we're just being complete retards about this? I thought it was pretty obvious that 109 was the number of green card holders who were denied reentry into the US because they were out of the US when this executive order took effect. Yeah, no shit there are more than 109 green card holders from the countries affected by this ban.

Point is 109 people were denied entry for a few hours, then they were allowed entry, the Trump administration reversed the green card holder ban, and all was right with the world again. That is until that wasn't good enough for the dipshits on the left so they had to actually claim that all 90,000 green card holders were somehow affected by this very brief order, even if they weren't traveling out of the country or even had any plans to leave the country.

So you are still whining about this even though it's done and over with and you shed exactly zero tears for the brown people Obama murdered. If you're looking for your moral high ground it's buried about 20 feet below the earth.

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 08:12 PM

So now we're just being complete retards about this? I thought it was pretty obvious that 109 was the number of green card holders who were denied reentry into the US because they were out of the US when this executive order took effect. Yeah, no shit there are more than 109 green card holders from the countries affected by this ban.

Point is 109 people were denied entry for a few hours, then they were allowed entry, the Trump administration reversed the green card holder ban, and all was right with the world again. That is until that wasn't good enough for the dipshits on the left so they had to actually claim that all 90,000 green card holders were somehow affected by this very brief order, even if they weren't traveling out of the country or even had any plans to leave the country.

So you are still whining about this even though it's done and over with and you shed exactly zero tears for the brown people Obama murdered. If you're looking for your moral high ground it's buried about 20 feet below the earth.

90,000 visa holders, not green card holders. Not that you understand the difference.

Tgo01

01-30-2017, 08:16 PM

90,000 visa holders, not green card holders. Not that you understand the difference.

Really? That's all you had to come back with?

Your 90,000 figure is still assuming those people are currently abroad and plan to come back to the US before the restrictions are lifted or are currently in the US and plan to come back during that time frame.

In other words your figure means exactly jackshit and is misleading at best and downright "alternate facts" at worst.

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 08:17 PM

Really? That's all you had to come back with?

Your 90,000 figure is still assuming those people are currently abroad and plan to come back to the US before the restrictions are lifted or are currently in the US and plan to come back during that time frame.

In other words your figure means exactly jackshit and is misleading at best and downright "alternate facts" at worst.

Do you understand what a visa is and why someone would need to get one?

Tgo01

01-30-2017, 08:24 PM

Do you understand what a visa is and why someone would need to get one?

Yes. Do you understand that visas can be revoked at anytime and no one has a "right" to a maintain a visa?

I also like how you went back and edited your post to make sure you quoted my post, like you so "owned" me that I was scared and was going to delete my post. Look, BigWorm, only your fellow dipshits like Nathla Crane and time4fun think you're making some sort of awesome points in this thread, everyone else realizes what a fucking tool bag you are and how you're attempting to play this stupid gotcha games.

Oh he said green card instead of visas! I so got him! God damn you are pathetic.

Axhinde

01-30-2017, 08:38 PM

Yes. Do you understand that visas can be revoked at anytime and no one has a "right" to a maintain a visa?

I also like how you went back and edited your post to make sure you quoted my post, like you so "owned" me that I was scared and was going to delete my post. Look, BigWorm, only your fellow dipshits like Nathla Crane and time4fun think you're making some sort of awesome points in this thread, everyone else realizes what a fucking tool bag you are and how you're attempting to play this stupid gotcha games.

Oh he said green card instead of visas! I so got him! God damn you are pathetic.

I don't agree with any single one person that posts in the political threads. I have, however, seen an enormous amount of name calling. Which, not only juvenile, is quite pathetic. You seem like an intelligent person, so you'll understand that lumping "everyone" together is highly inaccurate. I'm curious what makes you think you're qualified to speak for "everyone."

Androidpk

01-30-2017, 08:45 PM

Acting Attorney General declares Justice Department won’t defend Trump’s immigration order

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/01/30/trump-says-all-is-going-well-on-immigration-order-amid-questions-and-confusion/?utm_term=.e4e77f4b5458

I'll take it you don't want to answer my question.

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 08:45 PM

Tgo1, while you're on wikipedia furiously trying to figure out what visas are for, go ahead and read some of the linked pages. It's not the best source, but it has slightly less alt facts than Trump's twitter feed. Here are some good pages you might want to check out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Refugee_Admissions_Program
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 08:48 PM

I'll take it you don't want to answer my question.

I'm no fan of the shadow war in Yemen and haven't been since before the collapse of its government.

Out of curiousity how long have you had deeply held personal convictions about private email servers?

Methais

01-30-2017, 08:50 PM

Yes. Do you understand that visas can be revoked at anytime and no one has a "right" to a maintain a visa?

I also like how you went back and edited your post to make sure you quoted my post, like you so "owned" me that I was scared and was going to delete my post. Look, BigWorm, only your fellow dipshits like Nathla Crane and time4fun think you're making some sort of awesome points in this thread, everyone else realizes what a fucking tool bag you are and how you're attempting to play this stupid gotcha games.

Oh he said green card instead of visas! I so got him! God damn you are pathetic.

Holy fuck he noted the fuck out of that edit. You might as well just go home and cry, tell Doc to get his fat ass on a bike so you can chase him in a pink sweatsuit, come back and try harder next time.

Reason: quoted to preserve tgo1's idiocy

https://media.giphy.com/media/M44fKOHDnNnbO/giphy.gif

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 08:52 PM

Holy fuck he noted the fuck out of that edit. You might as well just go home and cry, tell Doc to get his fat ass on a bike so you can chase him in a pink sweatsuit, come back and try harder next time.

Thanks for your support! I enjoy your rare positive posts

Methais

01-30-2017, 08:53 PM

Thanks for your support! I enjoy your rare positive posts

https://media.giphy.com/media/UnmkOOZ7UpG12/giphy.gif

Tgo01

01-30-2017, 08:55 PM

You seem like an intelligent person, so you'll understand that lumping "everyone" together is highly inaccurate. I'm curious what makes you think you're qualified to speak for "everyone."

I thought I made it pretty obvious I was referring to the people commenting in this thread, and I'm basing this based on the posts I have seen thus far in this thread and the people I know. Also it was a bit of hyperbole for good measure.

Also I don't really give a flying fuck what you think. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Androidpk

01-30-2017, 08:56 PM

I'm no fan of the shadow war in Yemen and haven't been since before the collapse of its government.

Out of curiousity how long have you had deeply held personal convictions about private email servers?

It isn't just drones btw, I'm also talking about the ongoing Saudi led war that the US is helping.

Spring 2016.

Axhinde

01-30-2017, 08:57 PM

Also I don't really give a flying fuck what you think. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Clearly.

Tgo01

01-30-2017, 09:05 PM

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 09:25 PM

Trump just fired the acting attorney general

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/826253337611948032

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3dxApHVcAEzFVr.jpg

Androidpk

01-30-2017, 09:34 PM

Screw Sessions, pick someone else that isn't a crackpot.

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 09:43 PM

Screw Sessions, pick someone else that isn't a crackpot.

Not really anything the Dems can do against the Sessions confirmation other than slow it down without getting some Republicans to join them.

Trump still going to announce his Supreme Court pick tomorrow too? Good luck with that confirmation process

tyrant-201

01-30-2017, 09:46 PM

I thought I made it pretty obvious I was referring to the people commenting in this thread, and I'm basing this based on the posts I have seen thus far in this thread and the people I know. Also it was a bit of hyperbole for good measure.

Also I don't really give a flying fuck what you think. Just wanted to throw that out there.

The feeling, by in large, is mutual towards you. I do like you though, and think you're funny sometimes. I won't speak for everyone else when it comes to political beliefs, though, as you seem to like to do. You all are genuinely doing a good job of making yourselves look crazy.

You Trump supporters need a better pastime on here. Go out and take a breath of fresh air. Don't be the last ones on board when Trump really makes himself indefensible.

Back

01-30-2017, 09:50 PM

And Trump just fired the Attorney General for refusing to defend his immigration orders...

Tgo01

01-30-2017, 09:59 PM

The feeling, by in large, is mutual towards you.

I know you are but what am I?

I do like you though

That's great. I don't really dislike anyone on the PC, not even dipshit time4fun. I just think people say and do stupid shit and I point it out when they do.

You Trump supporters need a better pastime on here. Go out and take a breath of fresh air.

Trump supporters aren't the ones throwing a bitch fit because some people have been temporarily barred from entering the US.

We had a pretty long thread going on about all of the fuck ups of Obamacare, but other than the usual PC fighting I don't recall anyone losing their minds or going out and protesting and refusing to let their parents see their grandchildren or referring to half of the country as racist old bigots.

Allereli

01-30-2017, 10:00 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/30/opinions/david-axelrod-i-woke-up-this-morning-as-an-alternative-fact/index.html

Axelrod responds to Bannon National Security Council justifications

Neveragain

01-30-2017, 10:09 PM

And Trump just fired the Attorney General for refusing to defend his immigration orders...

The orders he has every right to impose, she was insubordinate, acted out for political gain and not the rule of law. The laws are there for a reason, so people like you who put your politics before the safety of our nation are stopped.

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 10:13 PM

By almost all accounts, Jeff Sessions was going to get confirmed along party lines tomorrow. Trump could have waited less 24 hours and got the same result. Did Yates just troll the President?

Ardwen

01-30-2017, 10:17 PM

what possible political gain did a life long AG have in doing this exactly? Also it seems like the current acting AG is way out of the line of succession, like 15 positions or so.

Neveragain

01-30-2017, 10:27 PM

By almost all accounts, Jeff Sessions was going to get confirmed along party lines tomorrow. Trump could have waited less 24 hours and got the same result. Did Yates just troll the President?

I think this should be taken as a clear message, there will be law and order.

I was actually digging around for the laws on his right to impose the travel ban to post it before the Yates story broke on the PC.

We're all watching that's for sure. Hold on tight bitches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s7dWKUUOUI

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 10:39 PM

Law and Order? This is the most chaotic first 10 days of a presidency since Andrew Jackson.

Geijon Khyree

01-30-2017, 10:53 PM

I'm calling it.

President Trump announced his pick for Supreme Court Justice of the United States of America today saying, "Satan is a great judge, a really good judge, an excellent judge. I think he'll do great on the Supreme Court."

Neveragain

01-30-2017, 10:57 PM

Law and Order? This is the most chaotic first 10 days of a presidency since Andrew Jackson.

He has not broken a single law. I think we are too used to seeing 16 years of people getting away with shit they should not of.

Step back, hold on, breath in and acknowledge what you are being a part of. Just for a moment set aside your politics and consider that he may be in this for what he said he was, the American people. Just let it go for a couple days, trust in our framers laws.

Geijon Khyree

01-30-2017, 10:57 PM

The orders he has every right to impose, she was insubordinate, acted out for political gain and not the rule of law. The laws are there for a reason, so people like you who put your politics before the safety of our nation are stopped.

Insubordination in business and political are extremely rare because of 1st Amendment laws. I get that people use it as a statement of hierarchy, but it's really only true in the military. He sacked her, yes, but not as legally defined insubordination. It's an error to call her a traitor to America and the administration may face a lawsuit because of it for the reasons I mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insubordination

drauz

01-30-2017, 10:57 PM

I'm calling it.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/3o6ZtqiVnNpsW4gjjq/200.gif

Geijon Khyree

01-30-2017, 11:02 PM

He has not broken a single law. I think we are too used to seeing 16 years of people getting away with shit they should not of.

Step back, hold on, breath in and acknowledge what you are being a part of. Just for a moment set aside your politics and consider that he may be in this for what he said he was, the American people. Just let it go for a couple days, trust in our framers laws.

That all may be true. The climate in America right now is unheard of in the past 30 years. When you consider that Millennials are the largest age subset in America right now, surpassing Baby Boomers and Generation X you can see the panic, divide and agitation in interactions.

You can't talk about this at work or on Facebook and if you have opposing views within your family and friend circles it's causing tension or straight up dissolution of those relationships.

Most of the folks on the PC are anonymous so for the most part people don't care unless they have close ties or investments in relationships that are a bit closer than our PC titles and posting cycles. It also doesn't help that we have this aspect of right wing brietbart Conservative vs. bleeding Liberal labels that we know don't simply apply to everyone, even when the delicious tears crowd want to say it is.

Tgo01

01-30-2017, 11:05 PM

Insubordination in business and political are extremely rare because of 1st Amendment laws. I get that people use it as a statement of hierarchy, but it's really only true in the military. He sacked her, yes, but not as legally defined insubordination. It's an error to call her a traitor to America and the administration may face a lawsuit because of it for the reasons I mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insubordination

How is it not insubordination for the attorney general to flat out refuse to defend a law in court, especially a presidential executive order that the sitting president pretty clearly wants defended?

Also where did Trump call her a traitor? Not saying it didn't happen, just I haven't read anything like that.

Geijon Khyree

01-30-2017, 11:08 PM

I explained it. Basically it's not insubordination because she's not in the military. You can call it all sorts of other legal terms, but while the term is understandable it can't be applied legally in these instances. Business practices avoid it because of legal grounds. If you look at cases of termination in Fortune 500 companies and even within the government it's not the final declaration of separation from position.

Geijon Khyree

01-30-2017, 11:09 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/dana-boente-acting-attorney-general/index.html

The video kind of breaks down legal cause of her removal.

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 11:10 PM

Head of ICE replaced now too: https://twitter.com/derrickmatai/status/826279455530291201

Another sudden firing or planned in advance of tonight's events? Who can tell at this point?

Tgo01

01-30-2017, 11:12 PM

Neveragain

01-30-2017, 11:18 PM

That all may be true. The climate in America right now is unheard of in the past 30 years. When you consider that Millennials are the largest age subset in America right now, surpassing Baby Boomers and Generation X you can see the panic, divide and agitation in interactions.

You can't talk about this at work or on Facebook and if you have opposing views within your family and friend circles it's causing tension or straight up dissolution of those relationships.

Most of the folks on the PC are anonymous so for the most part people don't care unless they have close ties or investments in relationships that are a bit closer than our PC titles and posting cycles. It also doesn't help that we have this aspect of right wing brietbart Conservative vs. bleeding Liberal labels that we know don't simply apply to everyone, even when the delicious tears crowd want to say it is.

My first suggestion would be to remember that your family is all you really have, if people are going to put politics above your nearest and dearest you need to look at yourself in the mirror. Secondly, if you're new to politics you have to learn it's truly cold war and our framers put laws in place to prevent that cold war from boiling over into a hot war. We have those laws for a reason and the left seems to not like it so much right now, we will never see a Hitler or a Stalin take hold of this nation because of those laws.

P.S. I was using the word insubordination loosely. She was fired because she didn't follow the law.

BigWorm

01-30-2017, 11:23 PM

we will never see a Hitler or a Stalin take hold of this nation because of those laws.

It Can't Happen Here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here)

Geijon Khyree

01-30-2017, 11:24 PM

I don't understand what you're trying to say. A business absolutely can fire someone for insubordination.

I said it rather clearly. It's rarely used, if at all, for legal cause of separation.

Geijon Khyree

01-30-2017, 11:27 PM

My first suggestion would be to remember that your family is all you really have, if people are going to put politics above your nearest and dearest you need to look at yourself in the mirror. Secondly, if you're new to politics you have to learn it's truly cold war and our framers put laws in place to prevent that cold war from boiling over into a hot war. We have those laws for a reason and the left seems to not like it so much right now, we will never see a Hitler or a Stalin take hold of this nation because of those laws.

Nope. I'm good here. I have a few friends quiet down after saying they loved/hated this or that, but that's a rather common occurrence in 2016/17. I was silent on the matter personally and professionally because regardless of ethos and preference the other half of just about any room is bound to get upset if you are either way.

I've said to friends that regardless of outcome people aren't going to be pleased. I suppose the PC proves some of that wrong because folks are filling their tear jars, but words don't make them better off. The truth of the matter is time will tell for all of us.

The original question was that after 10 days are you pleased or evolving your stance. It just got hijacked by the immigration ban, which I've not really weighed in on.

I personally find the wall to be a laughable solution that won't do a thing, his 6 bankruptcies, canceled show and general lack of articulation couldn't make me think he'd be effective. I never championed Hillary as the end all be all either and my state didn't vote for him OR her in the primaries so we were right both ways.

Androidpk

01-30-2017, 11:34 PM

Androidpk

01-30-2017, 11:41 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/30/opinions/david-axelrod-i-woke-up-this-morning-as-an-alternative-fact/index.html

Axelrod responds to Bannon National Security Council justifications

I'm finding this incredibly strange and slightly disturbing. Bannon does not belong on the security council.

drauz

01-30-2017, 11:42 PM

Androidpk

01-30-2017, 11:47 PM

So if she was fired for not following federal law why wasn't Holder or Lynch fired for not upholding federal law on marijuana in states that legalized it?

Neveragain

01-30-2017, 11:54 PM

Nope. I'm good here. I have a few friends quiet down after saying they loved/hated this or that, but that's a rather common occurrence in 2016/17. I was silent on the matter personally and professionally because regardless of ethos and preference the other half of just about any room is bound to get upset if you are either way.

I've said to friends that regardless of outcome people aren't going to be pleased. I suppose the PC proves some of that wrong because folks are filling their tear jars, but words don't make them better off. The truth of the matter is time will tell for all of us.

The original question was that after 10 days are you pleased or evolving your stance. It just got hijacked by the immigration ban, which I've not really weighed in on.

I personally find the wall to be a laughable solution that won't do a thing, his 6 bankruptcies, canceled show and general lack of articulation couldn't make me think he'd be effective. I never championed Hillary as the end all be all either and my state didn't vote for him OR her in the primaries so we were right both ways.

I'm kind of meh so far. More than anything I'm really disappointed with what is supposed to be the public's check on our government, that being the reporters.

My stance hasn't evolved really, I'm a states rights person. I was a Rand supporter from the start but he got too close to the Republicans. I still carry a lot of anger from what I saw with my own eyes happen to Ron Paul in Iowa, if there was ever a time I thought there was fraud that would have been it. He won our caucus sight by 40% over any other candidate, we had ballot boxes go missing in the middle of the night at other caucus sights, lights getting shut off at caucus sights. We had caucus sights not turn in their ballots. We have a wide mix of Democrats and Republicans here but I have a really hard time believing it's that broad that a 40% win varied that much throughout the state. (if that makes sense)

The wall...the whole subject is troubling for me. I really do love these people but we have laws for reasons, I can't think of a more family oriented culture than these folks. It's just really hard.

Androidpk

01-30-2017, 11:59 PM

sights/cites/sites - learn em

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 12:34 AM

sights/cites/sites - learn em

Dude my English is terrible, obviously. It's infinitely easier for me read binary, hexadecimal and octal than it is for me to figure out the fucking English language. I have my own personal theory that I don't do well with grey areas when it comes to rules.

Ardwen

01-31-2017, 12:55 AM

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/trump-apparently-didnt-realize-steve-bannon-will-need-senate-confirmation-security-council/1282/

BigWorm

01-31-2017, 12:58 AM

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/trump-apparently-didnt-realize-steve-bannon-will-need-senate-confirmation-security-council/1282/

He has not broken a single law.

(6) the Secretaries and Under Secretaries of other executive departments and of the military departments, when appointed by the President by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to serve at his pleasure.

whoopsie

Thondalar

01-31-2017, 01:05 AM

Another campaign promise Trump has made good on, backing the LGBTQRXYZ community (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/us/politics/obama-trump-protections-lgbt-workers.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=politics&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&pgtype=article).

Kinda surprised the NY Times even reported that.

Kembal

01-31-2017, 01:06 AM

whoopsie

I wish, but the report's wrong. Bannon got appointed to the NSC principals committee, not the NSC itself. The principals committee does not require Senate confirmation.

Of course, the principals committee is generally more important than the NSC itself (it meets more often), so that's not reassuring by any means.

BigWorm

01-31-2017, 01:13 AM

I wish, but the report's wrong. Bannon got appointed to the NSC principals committee, not the NSC itself. The principals committee does not require Senate confirmation.

Of course, the principals committee is generally more important than the NSC itself (it meets more often), so that's not reassuring by any means.

I am fake news

Thondalar

01-31-2017, 01:20 AM

It Can't Happen Here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here)

That was a fantasy novel.

BigWorm

01-31-2017, 02:14 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3yDjylQ5Ps

Sessions confirmation hearing should be fun to watch tomorrow.

Back

01-31-2017, 05:44 AM

The AG was on her way out anyway. So she was all probably like fuck that guy.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 05:52 AM

I am fake news

It's a pretty good bet to not jump the gun when the link has the word "Opinion" in it.

It's probably an even greater bet to not jump the gun when the article has "Impeach Trump Now!" plastered in headers before each paragraph.

So far you have given a Fiction story and an Opinion piece.

Just chill, there are teams of lawyers from both sides combing through everything they can get their hands on looking for uncrossed t's.

Have faith, our framers were very, very smart people.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 06:22 AM

I've always liked the opposite view.

The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.

That's where we differ. My view is God, Government, family with the exception to a den of thieves being the government then family replaces government. Just be thankful that my God taught separation of Church and state even though that shit was twisted to shit by tyrants.

Back

01-31-2017, 06:58 AM

That's where we differ. My view is God, Government, family with the exception to a den of thieves being the government then family replaces government. Just be thankful that my God taught separation of Church and state even though that shit was twisted to shit by tyrants.

Religious nut-jobs are the whole problem. This world is fucked because you people keep fighting over the same god while trying to impose your fantasy morality on everyone else.

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 07:01 AM

I am fake news

Truer words have never been posted by you.

Thank you.

Methais

01-31-2017, 09:20 AM

Religious nut-jobs are the whole problem. This world is fucked because you people keep fighting over the same god while trying to impose your fantasy morality on everyone else.

Let me guess...Islam is the exception?

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 09:30 AM

Religious nut-jobs are the whole problem. This world is fucked because you people keep fighting over the same god while trying to impose your fantasy morality on everyone else.

Specifically, which morality is being imposed on people that you consider "fantasy"?

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 09:31 AM

Let me guess...Islam is the exception?

YOU SOUND LIKE ONE OF THEM THERE ISLAMOPHOBES!

Back

01-31-2017, 09:52 AM

Let me guess...Islam is the exception?

I'm talking about all of them. Orthodox-whatever. The laws are ancient, barbaric, and based on faith not reality.

time4fun

01-31-2017, 10:07 AM

I'm talking about all of them. Orthodox-whatever. The laws are ancient, barbaric, and based on faith not reality.

Fundamentalist Christians, you mean?

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 10:09 AM

Religious nut-jobs are the whole problem. This world is fucked because you people keep fighting over the same god while trying to impose your fantasy morality on everyone else.

Really, Let's see.

Don't stone women for sexual acts. (kind of thought this was what you gals were marching about)

Treat others as you would treat yourself. (Now there's an idea that's evil as hell)

Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't commit adultery, don't be jealous, turn the other cheek, don't force your beliefs on others.............please tell me more of the nasty mean things that Christ said that are so terrible.

Now if you want to talk about Islam who's prophet was a child molester and a war monger. Or Jewish laws....

Jesus was an amazing dude whether you believe he was God or not or even existed. Good luck living in a stable safe society without those morals.

P.S. You don't have those morals when you are born.

Wrathbringer

01-31-2017, 10:18 AM

Fundamentalist Christians, you mean?

HE JUST SAID "I'm talking about all of them." ...

drauz

01-31-2017, 10:20 AM

drauz

01-31-2017, 10:24 AM

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 10:31 AM

What does the bible say about slaves?

I said Jesus. Don't forget it was abolitionist Christians that were the driving force behind ending slavery in the US.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 10:32 AM

They weren't morals that he "invented". All of those ideas existed before Jesus's timeline. They have just been taken in for use by religion, that doesn't make them religious based.

Great, it was Christians that turned those morals into law in the US.

P.S. I might add that they even had the audacity to make those laws and then remove the church from the Government. Just wow, so bad.

time4fun

01-31-2017, 10:48 AM

They weren't morals that he "invented". All of those ideas existed before Jesus's timeline. They have just been taken in for use by religion, that doesn't make them religious based.

Yeah, pretty sure "Don't murder people" wasn't invented by "Jesus".

Also, this whole notion that we're fighting a war of Islam vs the World is idiotic. The people who're organizing against the US are largely the people whose lives were directly or indirectly destroyed by our stupid wars- which happened to have been in predominantly Muslim countries.

I promise you that if situations were reversed- and a predominantly Muslim nation illegally bombed and occupied the US- we'd be the "Freedom Fighters", and the dominant cells would suddenly find themselves feeling very fundamentalist Christian.

Archigeek

01-31-2017, 10:49 AM

Religious nut-jobs are the whole problem. This world is fucked because you people keep fighting over the same god while trying to impose your fantasy morality on everyone else.

Arguments like this really stick in my craw. A lot of religious people do some great things for society, so let's not pretend that a lack of religion is some panacea. Meanwhile, how have the countries that prohibit or restrict religion worked out in the past? In such societies human life loses its intrinsic value and instead "objective" measures determine worth and here come the purges and genocides.

Sure there are plenty of religious nut jobs, but there have been plenty of atheist nut jobs too. In the "who's the biggest nut job" stakes, the atheists currently hold the top three positions for mass murder of civilians, so be careful what you wish for.

And to stay on topic, no, I don't like Trump and never have. Why would I like a misogynistic blowhard with a fragile ego as president? It's what we have though, so now we get to see how much he can fuck things up before either realizing the gravity of his actions and gaining some common sense, or fucking up so badly that he gets the boot in one form or another. Of course, then we'd end up with Pence, speaking of nut jobs.

Tgo01

01-31-2017, 10:50 AM

I promise you that if situations were reversed- and a predominantly Muslim nation illegally bombed and occupied the US- we'd be the "Freedom Fighters", and the dominant cells would suddenly find themselves feeling very fundamentalist Christian.

Shit, have you been paying attention lately? About half the people in this country would apologize for being American, start GoFundMe pages to raise money for the Muslim nation so they can buy more bombs, and would blame white Christian males for why we're getting bombed.

drauz

01-31-2017, 10:51 AM

Great, it was Christians that turned those morals into law in the US.

P.S. I might add that they even had the audacity to make those laws and then remove the church from the Government. Just wow, so bad.

Again they were laws well before Christianity. Was murder or stealing legal? No, they adopted laws that were already there just like everyone before them.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 10:57 AM

Religious nut-jobs are the whole problem. This world is fucked because you people keep fighting over the same god while trying to impose your fantasy morality on everyone else.

During the century measured, more people died as a result of communism than from homicide (58 million) and genocide (30 million) put together. The combined death tolls of WWI (37 million) and WWII (66 million) exceed communism's total by only 9 million.

Lenin: 5 million killed

Soviet Union between 1924-53: 50 million

Mao: 45 million

Pol-Pot: between 1-3 million

Christian Crusades: 1.7 million

Please tell me more about your peaceful godless societies.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 11:03 AM

Again they were laws well before Christianity. Was murder or stealing legal? No, they adopted laws that were already there just like everyone before them.

Ok so? The Christians established those laws in the US. I Know you hate to accept that, it's just fact. These people were by far majority Christians, Jefferson which I know you will say was not a Christian, still took Christs teachings very seriously, it's why he made his own bible. Why does this bother you so much?

The American Indian did not know what stealing was, I'm not justifying what happened to the Indians, they just didn't have a concept of theft.

Methais

01-31-2017, 11:09 AM

I'm talking about all of them. Orthodox-whatever. The laws are ancient, barbaric, and based on faith not reality.

In the year 2017 which one do you think is the greatest threat to the world?

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 11:15 AM

In the year 2017 which one do you think is the greatest threat to the world?

Dude they will never accept that their Socialist Utopian dream always ends in tragedy. :shrug:

Axhinde

01-31-2017, 11:21 AM

In the year 2017 which one do you think is the greatest threat to the world?

Scientologists

time4fun

01-31-2017, 11:23 AM

In the year 2017 which one do you think is the greatest threat to the world?

American Republicans

Shaps

01-31-2017, 11:34 AM

Thondalar

01-31-2017, 11:36 AM

Religious nut-jobs are the whole problem. This world is fucked because you people keep fighting over the same god while trying to impose your fantasy morality on everyone else.

"You people"...I'm guessing you mean Muslims. Christians gave up on the conversion-by-violence hundreds of years ago.

Thondalar

01-31-2017, 11:39 AM

American Republicans

My tribe is better than your tribe because reasons.

Allereli

01-31-2017, 11:55 AM

Eliot A. Cohen is the director of the Strategic Studies Program at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies. From 2007 to 2009, he was a counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. He is the author of The Big Stick: The Limits of Soft Power and the Necessity of Military Force.

i.e. he's conservative.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/a-clarifying-moment-in-american-history/514868/

Some Americans can fight abuses of power and disastrous policies directly—in courts, in congressional offices, in the press. But all can dedicate themselves to restoring the qualities upon which this republic, like all republics depends: on reverence for the truth; on a sober patriotism grounded in duty, moderation, respect for law, commitment to tradition, knowledge of our history, and open-mindedness. These are all the opposites of the qualities exhibited by this president and his advisers. Trump, in one spectacular week, has already shown himself one of the worst of our presidents..."

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 11:56 AM

American Republicans

Over 670 million non-Muslims massacred since the birth of Islam

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/muslims-have-killed-over-590-million-non-muslims-since-the-birth-of-mohammed/

Gosh darn those American Republicans! Never mind Democrats have gotten us involved in more wars than the Republicans aaannnnd it was a Democrat President that authorized the use of Nuclear weapons.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 12:18 PM

i.e. he's conservative.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/a-clarifying-moment-in-american-history/514868/

Another opinion piece.

The fact remains he has broken no laws. No one has been gathered up and placed in gas chambers, he left the LGBT laws as is. You may not like his tactics, he may be crude but the fact remains no laws have been broken.

Back

01-31-2017, 12:21 PM

Really, Let's see.

Don't stone women for sexual acts. (kind of thought this was what you gals were marching about)

Treat others as you would treat yourself. (Now there's an idea that's evil as hell)

Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't commit adultery, don't be jealous, turn the other cheek, don't force your beliefs on others.............please tell me more of the nasty mean things that Christ said that are so terrible.

Now if you want to talk about Islam who's prophet was a child molester and a war monger. Or Jewish laws....

Jesus was an amazing dude whether you believe he was God or not or even existed. Good luck living in a stable safe society without those morals.

P.S. You don't have those morals when you are born.

There you go right there proving my point. You have your head so far up your Christian ass you cant see the world objectively. You disrespect another religions, you claim some kind of moral high ground on abortion when it is not your decision to make, you preach Jesus and God and Bible all day yet only recite the passages that you want to justify your fucked up attitude towards things you don't like or scare you. People like you then prey on the weak willed manipulating them with false interpretations according to your will.

I'm not saying all religious people are like this. But the ones in power are. And they are one of the biggest problems with society as a whole.

Wrathbringer

01-31-2017, 12:23 PM

American Republicans

Derp

Thondalar

01-31-2017, 12:24 PM

Yeah, pretty sure "Don't murder people" wasn't invented by "Jesus".

Also, this whole notion that we're fighting a war of Islam vs the World is idiotic. The people who're organizing against the US are largely the people whose lives were directly or indirectly destroyed by our stupid wars- which happened to have been in predominantly Muslim countries.

I promise you that if situations were reversed- and a predominantly Muslim nation illegally bombed and occupied the US- we'd be the "Freedom Fighters", and the dominant cells would suddenly find themselves feeling very fundamentalist Christian.

Someone else mentioned this, but I'll flesh it out a bit...

The vast majority of US wars/"military actions" have had fuck-all to do with the middle east, until very recently. We weren't involved at all until after WW2, when we allied with the new Israeli State, as well as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and a few other Nations in that region that accepted our offers...like Afghanistan at the time, many in the region were more worried about the USSR just steamrolling the entire area while the US and Western Europe licked their wounds...

I know you'll just ignore the facts on this, but we went to Iraq the first time because they attacked Kuwait, which was under the military protection of the US. Our only other option was to set a precedent of not defending our allies. We went to Iraq again, several years later, because they continued to attack our allies in the region, and continued to defy International Law, and continued to defy UN Council mandates...I'd like to point out that in both instances, the US was not alone...30+ Countries directly supported the military actions with either troops or funding, including VERY Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia.

"The people who're organizing against the US" are also "organizing" against Russia and Western Europe...you're very much on the wrong side of this. How you can't understand that is beyond me...but I'll give it a go.

The US is still (even under Trump, even with his executive order on immigration) allied with several predominately Muslim Countries. YOUR side is the only one making false claims that these measures are against ALL Muslims, and that they are based entirely on their religion.

Anyone with half a brain is capable of understanding the very real differences between blocking people from Countries that have a direct and specific history of supporting International Terrorism against the US and their allies, and blocking everyone of a given religion.

I'll give you a hint...we've done the former, not the latter.

Tenlaar

01-31-2017, 12:28 PM

Lenin: 5 million killed

Soviet Union between 1924-53: 50 million

Mao: 45 million

Pol-Pot: between 1-3 million

Christian Crusades: 1.7 million

Please tell me more about your peaceful godless societies.

Since you want to compare wildly different situations, let's play a guessing game. What could the number next to the Crusades be if the Crusaders came equipped with machine guns, tanks, and airplanes like the people you're comparing them to? And since all that matters is the religious beliefs of the leader in charge of a huge group of people being killed, let's add in every number for every war where the leader had religious beliefs.

Or maybe we can just accept that people kill each other whether they are supposed to believe it is wrong for religious reasons or not. I'm not going to lie though, basically any horrible reason to kill swathes of people that is based on the world that I see and live in still carries more weight in my eyes than any reason to kill swathes of people that is based on the beliefs of whatever group's God-figure.

Thondalar

01-31-2017, 12:31 PM

There you go right there proving my point. You have your head so far up your Christian ass you cant see the world objectively. You disrespect another religions, you claim some kind of moral high ground on abortion when it is not your decision to make, you preach Jesus and God and Bible all day yet only recite the passages that you want to justify your fucked up attitude towards things you don't like or scare you. People like you then prey on the weak willed manipulating them with false interpretations according to your will.

I'm not saying all religious people are like this. But the ones in power are. And they are one of the biggest problems with society as a whole.

1) How dare you even attempt to use objectivity in any argument...you're so pigeon-holed in your beliefs it might be funny if it wasn't so sad.

2) What religious people are "in power"? Name 1.

3) Is this all religious people, or only people of certain religions? If so, which ones?

Thondalar

01-31-2017, 12:35 PM

Since you want to compare wildly different situations, let's play a guessing game. What could the number next to the Crusades be if the Crusaders came equipped with machine guns, tanks, and airplanes like the people you're comparing them to? And since all that matters is the religious beliefs of the leader in charge of a huge group of people being killed, let's add in every number for every war where the leader had religious beliefs.

Or maybe we can just accept that people kill each other whether they are supposed to believe it is wrong for religious reasons or not. I'm not going to lie though, basically any horrible reason to kill swathes of people that is based on the world that I see and live in still carries more weight in my eyes than any reason to kill swathes of people that is based on the beliefs of whatever group's God-figure.

I'd like to point out that most of those millions of deaths associated with the names Neveragain listed were not the result of specific military actions, but rather deaths of their own people as the result of attempted Utopia. Kinda puts a different spin on it.

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 12:50 PM

I can't tell if time4fun is really a troll or just really ignorant.

Methais

01-31-2017, 01:00 PM

American Republicans

Gosh you're just so witty and clever! The witty and cleverest!

Or is it just that you just don't want to answer honestly because it won't fit your narrative?

Ravenwood

01-31-2017, 01:09 PM

American Republicans

Completely ass backwards, as weve come to expect from you.

The only reason liberals have thrived in the last couple of centuries is because humans have circumvented natural selection.

Simply put: idiots like you, without forethought, common sense, caution or logic used to take themselves out of the gene pool on a regular basis.

Now, with the advent of technology and man's conquering his environment, not so much.

Liberals arent just a threat, you're an evolutionary dead end.....the biggest supporters of and the best reason for an abortion. Ironic isnt it?

time4fun

01-31-2017, 01:20 PM

Someone else mentioned this, but I'll flesh it out a bit...

The vast majority of US wars/"military actions" have had fuck-all to do with the middle east, until very recently. We weren't involved at all until after WW2, when we allied with the new Israeli State, as well as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and a few other Nations in that region that accepted our offers...like Afghanistan at the time, many in the region were more worried about the USSR just steamrolling the entire area while the US and Western Europe licked their wounds...

I know you'll just ignore the facts on this, but we went to Iraq the first time because they attacked Kuwait, which was under the military protection of the US. Our only other option was to set a precedent of not defending our allies. We went to Iraq again, several years later, because they continued to attack our allies in the region, and continued to defy International Law, and continued to defy UN Council mandates...I'd like to point out that in both instances, the US was not alone...30+ Countries directly supported the military actions with either troops or funding, including VERY Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia.

"The people who're organizing against the US" are also "organizing" against Russia and Western Europe...you're very much on the wrong side of this. How you can't understand that is beyond me...but I'll give it a go.

The US is still (even under Trump, even with his executive order on immigration) allied with several predominately Muslim Countries. YOUR side is the only one making false claims that these measures are against ALL Muslims, and that they are based entirely on their religion.

Anyone with half a brain is capable of understanding the very real differences between blocking people from Countries that have a direct and specific history of supporting International Terrorism against the US and their allies, and blocking everyone of a given religion.

I'll give you a hint...we've done the former, not the latter.

Um Thond.

When did ISIS come about? When did this Islamophobia in the US occur? When did terrorism on US soil (but non-white Christian fundamentalists that is) start?

You're completely missing the point by focusing on a time frame that isn't relevant.

And given that Trump ran on a platform of a full Muslim ban, for you to turn around and say the left is just imagining it is insane. Intentionally insane.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 01:22 PM

Since you want to compare wildly different situations, let's play a guessing game. What could the number next to the Crusades be if the Crusaders came equipped with machine guns, tanks, and airplanes like the people you're comparing them to? And since all that matters is the religious beliefs of the leader in charge of a huge group of people being killed, let's add in every number for every war where the leader had religious beliefs.

Or maybe we can just accept that people kill each other whether they are supposed to believe it is wrong for religious reasons or not. I'm not going to lie though, basically any horrible reason to kill swathes of people that is based on the world that I see and live in still carries more weight in my eyes than any reason to kill swathes of people that is based on the beliefs of whatever group's God-figure.

I think that's my point, a Bible didn't throw itself at peoples heads and kill them. Christ, whether you believe in him or whatever you believe, never taught aggression towards anyone and was killed for it.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 01:24 PM

Um Thond.

When did ISIS come about? When did this Islamophobia in the US occur? When did terrorism on US soil (but non-white Christian fundamentalists that is) start?

You're completely missing the point by focusing on a time frame that isn't relevant.

And given that Trump ran on a platform of a full Muslim ban, for you to turn around and say the left is just imagining it is insane. Intentionally insane.

I think you need to study a little more about WW2 and who was on who's side.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 02:12 PM

Islam has been a problem for our Nation since it's founding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui8OCiZsWGw

Methais

01-31-2017, 03:01 PM

Also, this whole notion that we're fighting a war of Islam vs the World is idiotic. The people who're organizing against the US are largely the people whose lives were directly or indirectly destroyed by our stupid wars- which happened to have been in predominantly Muslim countries.

That must explain why they're blowing up Europe too.

That must also explain them doing the same shit for the past 1400 years or however many centuries they've been at it.

Archigeek

01-31-2017, 03:03 PM

Senator Jeff Sessions, Trump's Attorney General nominee, questioning now former acting attorney general Yates during her Senate confirmation hearing for the deputy AG job:

https://twitter.com/staffernews/status/826285358967046144

Thank you CSPAN, for recording every mind-numbingly dull public hearing, and catching exchanges like this one, that turn out to be prescient down the road.

Methais

01-31-2017, 03:38 PM

You're completely missing the point by focusing on a time frame that isn't relevant.

It's only relevant if it's something negative about Trump, even if it was like 40 years ago and irrelevant. Right?

And given that Trump ran on a platform of a full Muslim ban, for you to turn around and say the left is just imagining it is insane. Intentionally insane.

Except he didn't.

But by all means please explain to me how "muslims from nations that support terrorism" or whatever the actual wording was that ended up being 7 countries that Obama picked in 2011 = full muslim ban.

Full Muslim ban would be no entry to the US no matter where you're coming from.

I can't tell if time4fun is really a troll or just really ignorant.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1ihuaqBIu1qadru1.png

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 03:41 PM

Um Thond.

When did ISIS come about?

1999

When did this Islamophobia in the US occur?

Huh?

When did terrorism on US soil (but non-white Christian fundamentalists that is) start?

1920 - Communists or anarchists blew up a wagon in Wall Street area, killing 35.

You're completely missing the point by focusing on a time frame that doesn't fit my "special" narrative.

FTFY

And given that Trump ran on a platform of a full Muslim ban, for you to turn around and say the left is just imagining it is insane. Intentionally insane.

Full Muslim ban is largely in your head. There are many predominately Muslim countries that are not getting special vetting.

Methais

01-31-2017, 04:13 PM

This guy still likes Trump. ABC just doesn't want you to know that.

https://youtu.be/KVKtulh5ekE

Ravenwood

01-31-2017, 04:14 PM

Um Thond.

When did ISIS come about? When did this Islamophobia in the US occur?

And given that Trump ran on a platform of a full Muslim ban, for you to turn around and say the left is just imagining it is insane. Intentionally insane.

Consider yourself educated. Considering how often you liberals like to feign intellectual superiority, one would think that you would know this. Since you dont, the only logical conclusion that a reasonable person can reach is that youre full of shit.

The First Barbary War (1801–1805), also known as the Tripolitanian War and the Barbary Coast War, was the first of two Barbary Wars between the United States, Sweden and the four North African states known collectively as the "Barbary States". Three of these were nominal provinces of the Ottoman Empire, but in practice autonomous: Tripoli, Algiers, and Tunis. The fourth was the independent Sultanate of Morocco. The cause of the war was pirates from the Barbary States seizing American merchant ships and holding the crews for ransom, demanding the U.S. pay tribute to the Barbary rulers. United States President Thomas Jefferson refused to pay this tribute, in addition the Swedes had been at war with the Tripolitans since 1800.

Barbary corsairs and crews from the North African Ottoman provinces of Algiers, Tunis, Tripoli, and the independent Sultanate of Morocco under the Alaouite dynasty (the Barbary Coast) were the scourge of the Mediterranean.Capturing merchant ships and enslaving or ransoming their crews provided the Muslim rulers of these nations with wealth and naval power. (That means ships not your belly button)

The turning point in the war was the Battle of Derna (April–May 1805). Ex-consul William Eaton, a former Army captain who used the title of "general", and US Marine Corps 1st Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon led a force of eight U.S. Marines [34] and five hundred mercenaries—Greeks from Crete, Arabs, and Berbers on a march across the desert from Alexandria, Egypt, to capture the Tripolitan city of Derna. This was the first time the United States flag was raised in victory on foreign soil. The action is memorialized in a line of the Marines' Hymn—"the shores of Tripoli". The capturing of the city gave American negotiators leverage in securing the return of hostages and the end of the war

Ravenwood

01-31-2017, 04:19 PM

Note that unlike Obama, Jefferson refused to negotiate with terrorists.

Tgo01

01-31-2017, 04:27 PM

the only logical conclusion that a reasonable person can reach is that youre full of shit.

Hey buddy, time4fun used to teach logic, in between getting 4 masters in gender studies.

Warriorbird

01-31-2017, 04:38 PM

People should tighten up. Most of these recent exchanges seemed like a bunch of mostly disconnected posts with some wailing interjected.

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 04:59 PM

People should tighten up. Most of these recent exchanges seemed like a bunch of mostly disconnected posts with some wailing interjected.

LOL

tyrant-201

01-31-2017, 06:30 PM

LOL

All of us who prayed you'd shut the fuck up after your candidate won are sorely disappointed. Geezer has to have something to incessantly whine about I guess.

Keep blathering about liberal tears, I'll continue to observe your unhealthy obsession with the left.

Tgo01

01-31-2017, 07:00 PM

tyrant-201

01-31-2017, 07:13 PM

Why would Trump supporters shut up? Trump won.

Rather infantile to continue to gloat if your candidate won already isn't it? Be happy you have the president you wanted for the next 4 years. Instead of being encouraged by the promise of that, y'all seem to be focused on shitting on the left. Deserved in some/many respects. Your president has a blank check to pass whatever he wants that's within reason, and Dems can't do shit to stop it. Dangerous, whether it comes with a Republican or Democratic majority.

Tgo01

01-31-2017, 07:19 PM

Rather infantile to continue to gloat if your candidate won already isn't it?

Other than within like the first week after Trump won I haven't said much of anything about Trump being president/winning. I don't think I've seen too many threads from Trump supporters either.

Rather it's always been in threads started by a whiner that is over the top in their whining about something Trump has done.

Look at this thread alone.

What threads have been started by Trump supporters for the sole purpose of gloating?

You (generic you) have had 8 years of shutting down all political debate by insisting the other side is racist. You (generic you) now want free reign to whine about the littlest thing Trump does and if anyone says anything in return they are against racist. And sexist. And a bigot. And a homophobe.

BigWorm

01-31-2017, 07:24 PM

What threads have been started by Trump supporters for the sole purpose of gloating?

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?106862-Liberal-salty-quot-thoughts-quot-about-the-new-administration
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?105582-Winners-and-Losers-of-the-2016-Presidential-Election
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?105589-Who-Cried-The-Hardest-Last-Night-When-HRC-Lost

tyrant-201

01-31-2017, 07:26 PM

Other than within like the first week after Trump won I haven't said much of anything about Trump being president/winning. I don't think I've seen too many threads from Trump supporters either.

Rather it's always been in threads started by a whiner that is over the top in their whining about something Trump has done.

Look at this thread alone.

What threads have been started by Trump supporters for the sole purpose of gloating?

You (generic you) have had 8 years of shutting down all political debate by insisting the other side is racist. You (generic you) now want free reign to whine about the littlest thing Trump does and if anyone says anything in return they are against racist. And sexist. And a bigot. And a homophobe.

I get that and I get why people are tired of it. I've had some similar discussions with liberal friends blinded by that ideology. Unfortunately we're not going to build any bridges by being reactionary towards each other. Vitriolic rhetoric comes from both sides. I fear for the future of our country, not because of Trump, but because year after year this sort of thing becomes more and more prevalent.

Tgo01

01-31-2017, 07:33 PM

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?106862-Liberal-salty-quot-thoughts-quot-about-the-new-administration
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?105582-Winners-and-Losers-of-the-2016-Presidential-Election
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?105589-Who-Cried-The-Hardest-Last-Night-When-HRC-Lost

So two threads the day after Trump won? Yeah, of course people were gloating then. Pull your head out of your ass.

BigWorm

01-31-2017, 07:37 PM

So two threads the day after Trump won? Yeah, of course people were gloating then. Pull your head out of your ass.

keep on moving those goalposts buddy

Tgo01

01-31-2017, 07:43 PM

keep on moving those goalposts buddy

Considering I started out my post with "Other than within like the first week after Trump won" I thought it was pretty obvious I was still referring to this time frame. But I forgot you need everything spelled out to you in simple English because rather than actually having anything intelligent to say you're just looking to play gotcha games.

Quick! Better go back and quote my entire post just in case!

Androidpk

01-31-2017, 07:45 PM

Arguments like this really stick in my craw. A lot of religious people do some great things for society, so let's not pretend that a lack of religion is some panacea. Meanwhile, how have the countries that prohibit or restrict religion worked out in the past? In such societies human life loses its intrinsic value and instead "objective" measures determine worth and here come the purges and genocides.

Sure there are plenty of religious nut jobs, but there have been plenty of atheist nut jobs too. In the "who's the biggest nut job" stakes, the atheists currently hold the top three positions for mass murder of civilians, so be careful what you wish for.

And to stay on topic, no, I don't like Trump and never have. Why would I like a misogynistic blowhard with a fragile ego as president? It's what we have though, so now we get to see how much he can fuck things up before either realizing the gravity of his actions and gaining some common sense, or fucking up so badly that he gets the boot in one form or another. Of course, then we'd end up with Pence, speaking of nut jobs.

This. Like with all things in life their is a wide spectrum of varying ideologies.

drauz

01-31-2017, 07:58 PM

Lenin: 5 million killed

Soviet Union between 1924-53: 50 million

Mao: 45 million

Pol-Pot: between 1-3 million

Christian Crusades: 1.7 million

Please tell me more about your peaceful godless societies.

Do you honestly think the crusades is the only time people have died at the hands of the church? You conveniently leave out most of the Church's history. How about how many people at this moment who are effected by the church's stance on contraceptive? What about the inquisitions?

Stalin who was trained at a seminary school in Georgia? Who studied for the priesthood. He is the only confirmed atheist on your list, but look who he was taught by. Who as Hitchins put it, stepped into a ready-made religious tyranny, constructed by the Russian Orthodox Church and paved with the teachings of St. Paul.

Pol-Pot was a perversion of Buddhism..

drauz

01-31-2017, 08:03 PM

Ok so? The Christians established those laws in the US. I Know you hate to accept that, it's just fact. These people were by far majority Christians, Jefferson which I know you will say was not a Christian, still took Christs teachings very seriously, it's why he made his own bible. Why does this bother you so much?

The American Indian did not know what stealing was, I'm not justifying what happened to the Indians, they just didn't have a concept of theft.

Really, that's your argument? Christians implemented the laws that just about every other country had so its ONLY Christian values?

It bothers me because you are literally lying. This is your argument in a nutshell:

http://i.imgur.com/YfqOtgU.png

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 08:49 PM

Really, that's your argument? Christians implemented the laws that just about every other country had so its ONLY Christian values?

It bothers me because you are literally lying. This is your argument in a nutshell:

http://i.imgur.com/YfqOtgU.png

Dude the origins of those teachings could have came from dirt it does not change that Christ taught them and that it was Christians who framed our nations laws around them.

I'm at a loss as to why you have this knee jerk reaction. Christ taught these laws, when I'm asked who taught me math I answer with Miss. Anderson not who originally invented math. Man you get agitated so easily over this.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 08:55 PM

Do you honestly think the crusades is the only time people have died at the hands of the church? You conveniently leave out most of the Church's history. How about how many people at this moment who are effected by the church's stance on contraceptive? What about the inquisitions?

Stalin who was trained at a seminary school in Georgia? Who studied for the priesthood. He is the only confirmed atheist on your list, but look who he was taught by. Who as Hitchins put it, stepped into a ready-made religious tyranny, constructed by the Russian Orthodox Church and paved with the teachings of St. Paul.

Pol-Pot was a perversion of Buddhism..

You just can't accept that socialist utopia's are a lie, here's Venizual, it was Bernies wet dream, now their eating rats out of the garbage can. Here's your sign. But he's got 3 houses now, nobody needs 3 homes.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 08:57 PM

Fuck this phone!

drauz

01-31-2017, 09:11 PM

You just can't accept that socialist utopia's is a lie, here's Venizual, it was Bernies wet dream, now their eating rats out of the garbage can. Here's your sign. But he's got 3 houses now, nobody needs 3 homes.

Atheist =/= socialism. Are you really this dumb?

You just can't accept that Christianity isn't all roses, it has one of the darkest pasts of any religion. PEOPLE have turned it around in spite of its teachings, not because of god. I haven't even gotten into the rampant pedophilia, but that didn't directly kill people.

Since you like videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Mp9YF3ohk

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 09:12 PM

Drauz, If there's a new way I'll be the first in line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD6gKjtpkFM

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 09:17 PM

Atheist =/= socialism. Are you really this dumb?

You just can't accept that Christianity isn't all roses, it has one of the darkest pasts of any religion. PEOPLE have turned it around in spite of its teachings, not because of god. I haven't even gotten into the rampant pedophilia, but that didn't directly kill people.

Since you like videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Mp9YF3ohk

Dude no where did I say Christianity hasn't been used and twisted to cause travesty. You think guns kill people on their own too, or the spoon makes a person fat? Humans are broke as fuck, if they are not taught morals they become less than animals.

drauz

01-31-2017, 09:27 PM

Dude no where did I say Christianity hasn't been used and twisted to cause travesty. You think guns kill people on their own too, or the spoon makes a person fat? Humans are broke as fuck, if they are not taught morals they become less than animals.

The point is morals don't come from religion, they merely hijacked them. You don't have to be religious to be moral and if you are are being good solely because of religion you aren't really being moral.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 09:40 PM

The point is morals don't come from religion, they merely hijacked them. You don't have to be religious to be moral and if you are are being good solely because of religion you aren't really being moral.

Dude, I'm not going to sit here and argue over whether the cat is dead or not because that is what it comes down to every time. You think it's dead, I don't. Move on. The numbers are there, godless societies have more atrocities. I'm not moral just because of God, it's because I fucking care.

drauz

01-31-2017, 09:50 PM

The numbers are there, godless societies have more atrocities. I'm not moral just because of God, it's because I fucking care.

I already proved you wrong about that assertion, but you had no come back for that. You just keep saying the same thing regardless of the information presented you. You keep spouting bullshit and when confronted about it you try to switch the topic like we are suddenly talking about socialism. Get your head out of your ass.

You aren't moral. You've proven that time and again here.

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 09:54 PM

All of us who prayed you'd shut the fuck up after your candidate won are sorely disappointed. Geezer has to have something to incessantly whine about I guess.

Keep blathering about liberal tears, I'll continue to observe your unhealthy obsession with the left.

You honestly need to look in the mirror.

Out of the two of us, you are the incessant whining little bitch.

Triggered much?

Knowing you are so upset about the election brings a special smile to my day.

Thank you, you special fucking snowflake.

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 09:55 PM

Rather infantile to continue to gloat if your candidate won already isn't it? Be happy you have the president you wanted for the next 4 years. Instead of being encouraged by the promise of that, y'all seem to be focused on shitting on the left. Deserved in some/many respects. Your president has a blank check to pass whatever he wants that's within reason, and Dems can't do shit to stop it. Dangerous, whether it comes with a Republican or Democratic majority.

https://newromantimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/family-picnic-1.jpg

Parkbandit

01-31-2017, 09:57 PM

I get that and I get why people are tired of it. I've had some similar discussions with liberal friends blinded by that ideology. Unfortunately we're not going to build any bridges by being reactionary towards each other. Vitriolic rhetoric comes from both sides. I fear for the future of our country, not because of Trump, but because year after year this sort of thing becomes more and more prevalent.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/little-scared-girl-12087632.jpg

rolfard

01-31-2017, 09:58 PM

https://i.imgflip.com/1iqhpi.jpg

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 09:59 PM

I already proved you wrong about that assertion, but you had no come back for that. You just keep saying the same thing regardless of the information presented you. You keep spouting bullshit and when confronted about it you try to switch the topic like we are suddenly talking about socialism. Get your head out of your ass.

You aren't moral. You've proven that time and again here.

You are completely moral?

I have never said i'm clear of all sins, you project that shit, not me.

Dude this really seems like an inner struggle you're having with yourself, you flip at the mention of religion. I presented you with a video you just refuse to watch, I have watched videos you have presented to me. I have listened to hitchens numerous times. I have also heard hitchens say all women fantasize about being raped, I don't know if that's the case and I'm not going to ask a woman about it either.

P.S. I have already watched that video before.

tyrant-201

01-31-2017, 10:01 PM

You honestly need to look in the mirror.

Out of the two of us, you are the incessant whining little bitch.

Triggered much?

Knowing you are so upset about the election brings a special smile to my day.

Thank you, you special fucking snowflake.

Keep trying, you bitter old fuck ;)

drauz

01-31-2017, 10:03 PM

You are completely moral?

I have never said i'm clear of all sins, you project that shit, not me.

Dude this really seems like an inner struggle you're having with yourself, you flip at the mention of religion. I presented you with a video you just refuse to watch, I have watched videos you have presented to me. I have listened to hitchens numerous times. I have also heard hitchens say all women fantasize about being raped, I don't know if that's the case and I'm not going to ask a woman about it either.

I'm not moral just because of God, it's because I fucking care.

Can you not remember what you posted 1 post ago?!

drauz

01-31-2017, 10:08 PM

You are completely moral?

I have never said i'm clear of all sins, you project that shit, not me.

Dude this really seems like an inner struggle you're having with yourself, you flip at the mention of religion. I presented you with a video you just refuse to watch, I have watched videos you have presented to me. I have listened to hitchens numerous times. I have also heard hitchens say all women fantasize about being raped, I don't know if that's the case and I'm not going to ask a woman about it either.

P.S. I have already watched that video before.

Everyone has a struggle, this started because you tried to claim morals were from religion. Get your facts straight and I won't have to keep correcting you.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 10:15 PM

Everyone has a struggle, this started because you tried to claim morals were from religion. Get your facts straight and I won't have to keep correcting you.

Where did I say they come from religion, where?

drauz

01-31-2017, 10:21 PM

Where did I say they come from religion, where?

You can't remember what you literally posted minutes ago, why am I not surprised you can't remember what you've said.

Really, Let's see.

Don't stone women for sexual acts. (kind of thought this was what you gals were marching about)

Treat others as you would treat yourself. (Now there's an idea that's evil as hell)

Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't commit adultery, don't be jealous, turn the other cheek, don't force your beliefs on others.............please tell me more of the nasty mean things that Christ said that are so terrible.

Now if you want to talk about Islam who's prophet was a child molester and a war monger. Or Jewish laws....

Jesus was an amazing dude whether you believe he was God or not or even existed. Good luck living in a stable safe society without those morals.

P.S. You don't have those morals when you are born.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 10:29 PM

You can't remember what you literally posted minutes ago, why am I not surprised you can't remember what you've said.

P.S. You don't have those morals when you are born.

If this is me saying morals only comes from religion.........I don't even know what to say.

If you do think we are born with morals, you're fucking retarded.

Put two little kids in a room with one toy that have not been taught morals, just watch what happens.

Other than that P.S., no where do I say morals come from religion. I do say that Christ taught values that are good values that have resulted in good societies, I make no mention of their origins. You're projecting dude.

drauz

01-31-2017, 10:42 PM

If this is me saying morals only comes from religion.........I don't even know what to say.

If you do think we are born with morals, you're fucking retarded.

Put two little kids in a room with one toy that have not been taught morals, just watch what happens.

Other than that P.S., no where do I say morals come from religion. I do say that Christ taught values that are good values that have resulted in good societies, I make no mention of their origins. You're projecting dude.

You are implying that morals come from religion. You just said you did say that morals come from religion.... Really?... I don't even know what to say.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 10:49 PM

You are implying that morals come from religion. You just said you did say that morals come from religion.... Really?... I don't even know what to say.

No you're implying I said that. Quit projecting dude, don't drag me into your inner conflict.

drauz

01-31-2017, 10:53 PM

No you're implying I said that. Quit projecting dude, don't drag me into your inner conflict.

If this is me saying morals only comes from religion.........I don't even know what to say.

If you do think we are born with morals, you're fucking retarded.

Put two little kids in a room with one toy that have not been taught morals, just watch what happens.

Other than that P.S., no where do I say morals come from religion. I do say that Christ taught values that are good values that have resulted in good societies, I make no mention of their origins. You're projecting dude.

Do you know how English works, you say it right there....

http://37.media.tumblr.com/27b24813131b935380395820e21da13a/tumblr_n3ttgjIwmZ1qiuu0qo1_500.png

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 11:20 PM

Do you know how English works, you say it right there....

http://37.media.tumblr.com/27b24813131b935380395820e21da13a/tumblr_n3ttgjIwmZ1qiuu0qo1_500.png

Ok let me change the wording, just so you can feel better about yourself.

We are not born with morals. If you think I'm implying that morals come from religion by that statement you're wrong, we are just not born with morals.

:clap:

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 11:28 PM

So now back to the original reply that you say I state morals come from religion, I do not imply this at all.

P.S. If I wanted be a stickler on wording, that reply that you said I made minutes ago, was made hours ago. So now you're just wrong, right?

drauz

01-31-2017, 11:36 PM

Ok let me change the wording, just so you can feel better about yourself.

We are not born with morals. If you think I'm implying that morals come from religion by that statement you're wrong, we are just not born with morals.

:clap:

I was quoting YOUR words that YOU said. You said:

Other than that P.S., no where do I say morals come from religion.

Do you understand what "other than" means?

http://i.imgur.com/XCJImDZ.gif

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 11:40 PM

Ah poor Drauz knows he's projecting, refuses to answer and results to child like behavior.

drauz

01-31-2017, 11:45 PM

Ah poor Drauz knows he's projecting, refuses to answer and results to child like behavior.

Ah poor Neveragain, doesn't understand the meaning of words he uses.

Neveragain

01-31-2017, 11:50 PM

Ah poor Drauz thinks Socialism works and fell for a chicken in every pot.

drauz

01-31-2017, 11:53 PM

Ah poor Neveragain, can't remember something he posted from 1 post ago but somehow thinks he's remembering correctly that I'm a socialist.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 12:00 AM

Because nothing says I'm not a socialist by trusting the words of a full blown socialist, who now owns 3 homes.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 12:04 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAvalHAVc38

drauz

02-01-2017, 12:21 AM

Because nothing says I'm not a socialist by trusting the words of a full blown socialist, who now owns 3 homes.

http://i.imgur.com/3kQm4xv.gif

tyrant-201

02-01-2017, 01:03 AM

Because nothing says I'm not a socialist by trusting the words of a full blown socialist, who now owns 3 homes.

What does him owning homes have to do with anything? Democratic socialists aren't allowed to own things? Hm. News to me.

drauz

02-01-2017, 01:07 AM

What does him owning homes have to do with anything? Democratic socialists aren't allowed to own things? Hm. News to me.

Damnit I just got him down for a nap.

Allereli

02-01-2017, 09:24 AM

http://www.govexec.com/management/2017/01/house-and-senate-democrats-pressure-gsa-trump-hotel-lease/134800/

Archigeek

02-01-2017, 10:07 AM

You are implying that morals come from religion. You just said you did say that morals come from religion.... Really?... I don't even know what to say.

I think it's safe to say that you can get your moral code from your religion, (Christianity for example), or from your non-religion, (Buddhism for example). There, you're both right. Do you still like Trump?

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 10:39 AM

What does him owning homes have to do with anything? Democratic socialists aren't allowed to own things? Hm. News to me.

8345

https://fee.org/articles/democratic-socialism-is-a-contradiction-in-terms/?gclid=CO7Oyo2X79ECFRi2wAodZUEO2Q

Simply put it's not fair.

It tries to achieve equality and each individual has a different idea of what equality is. One person is going to say "Why do they have 3 homes and I don't? It's not fair."

Over time you will see a growing number of people on welfare, fewer people working, more people voting for who offers more free stuff. Demand on the Government will increase, requiring an increase in taxes and rationing. Considering this probably includes free government healthcare, you will over time receive less healthcare services and more laws dictating your lifestyle. The only way a Government can control the tax payer and their life choices is through force. Over the long trend these conditions snowball.

It's not that you can't own a home it's just that in the long term you won't be able to afford to own a home if there are any homes available. The theory really does do nothing but punish winners and reward losers, this is just the opposite of how humans function.

tyrant-201

02-01-2017, 11:42 AM

8345

https://fee.org/articles/democratic-socialism-is-a-contradiction-in-terms/?gclid=CO7Oyo2X79ECFRi2wAodZUEO2Q

Simply put it's not fair.

It tries to achieve equality and each individual has a different idea of what equality is. One person is going to say "Why do they have 3 homes and I don't? It's not fair."

Over time you will see a growing number of people on welfare, fewer people working, more people voting for who offers more free stuff. Demand on the Government will increase, requiring an increase in taxes and rationing. Considering this probably includes free government healthcare, you will over time receive less healthcare services and more laws dictating your lifestyle. The only way a Government can control the tax payer and their life choices is through force. Over the long trend these conditions snowball.

It's not that you can't own a home it's just that in the long term you won't be able to afford to own a home if there are any homes available. The theory really does do nothing but punish winners and reward losers, this is just the opposite of how humans function.

The comment was about Bernie owning 3 homes. Not whether you disagree with the theory of socialism, or the implementation within our system.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 11:53 AM

The comment was about Bernie owning 3 homes. Not whether you disagree with the theory of socialism, or the implementation within our system.

Doesn't bother me he owns 3 homes, though I would think after running on the message he was peddling then throwing his support behind the woman who put the fix in on him...buying his third home kind of told all his supporters he was full of shit. :shrug:

time4fun

02-01-2017, 12:22 PM

Tgo01

02-01-2017, 12:27 PM

I don't think you understand what Socialism is.

Oh please teach us. And teach us how elections work. And teach us about logic.

time4fun

02-01-2017, 01:05 PM

Oh please teach us. And teach us how elections work. And teach us about logic.

It would be wasted on you- especially that last one.

But nothing in your snide remarks change the fact that Private/Neveragain's post demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what socialism is. Socialism is an economic system where the government owns the means/distribution of production. It's not a system where you enforce economic equality on everyone. i.e. it's not Communism (which is a political system)

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 01:24 PM

It would be wasted on you- especially that last one.

But nothing in your snide remarks change the fact that Private/Neveragain's post demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what socialism is. Socialism is an economic system where the government owns the means/distribution of production. It's not a system where you enforce economic equality on everyone. i.e. it's not Communism (which is a political system)

I do look forward to reading how once again a Socialist thinks they have figured out a way to defy gravity.

time4fun

02-01-2017, 02:19 PM

I do look forward to reading how once again a Socialist thinks they have figured out a way to defy gravity.

Unfortunately, you would have a hard time identifying one since you clearly don't understand the concept.

Democratic Socialism is what is in question here, and it's literally nothing like what you're arguing about. That's the problem with people like you- you're arguing against a distortion of reality. You're benefiting from democratic socialist policies in the US while railing against the notion because you don't understand governance or economics.

macgyver

02-01-2017, 02:34 PM

Bernie owns ONE home that he bought in like 1967. He walks everyday back and forth from work and has a grand total of like 100,000 in savings. For a a senior U.S. Senator who's been in the game for a billion years like he has he would have to intentionally keep himself poor or continuously give away his money in order to end in the state he's currently in. He IS a socialist by word and by action... unless he had a secret Ponzi scheme going that blew up or something extreme of that nature.(not saying it's not possible but it's crazy out there)

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 02:39 PM

Unfortunately, you would have a hard time identifying one since you clearly don't understand the concept.

Democratic Socialism is what is in question here, and it's literally nothing like what you're arguing about. That's the problem with people like you- you're arguing against a distortion of reality. You're benefiting from democratic socialist policies in the US while railing against the notion because you don't understand governance or economics.

Right here is how people like you work.

1. Create a bubble of like minded thinkers (Rich liberals for the most part) anyone else is labeled negatively (they tend to call them fascists).

2. Now they don't have to explain their new social construct (pssst. It's really just socialism) because anyone else outside the bubble is too stupid to understand them.

3. What you live in now and benefit from (They won't mention all these things are falling apart now and we're 18 trillion in debt, 9 trillion of that debt is from when these people got in power between '08 and now) is close to what we want, we just need more money.

There's more...just wait.

So your highness do us poor peasants a favor and do your best to explain Democrat Socialism in layman's terms.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 02:46 PM

tyrant-201

02-01-2017, 03:13 PM

Right here is how people like you work.

1. Create a bubble of like minded thinkers (Rich liberals for the most part) anyone else is labeled negatively (they tend to call them fascists).

2. Now they don't have to explain their new social construct (pssst. It's really just socialism) because anyone else outside the bubble is too stupid to understand them.

3. What you live in now and benefit from (They won't mention all these things are falling apart now and we're 18 trillion in debt, 9 trillion of that debt is from when these people got in power between '08 and now) is close to what we want, we just need more money.

There's more...just wait.

So your highness do us poor peasants a favor and do your best to explain Democrat Socialism in layman's terms.

Yeah we totally live in rampant socialism. The woes of our national debt are all tied into entitlements. People are just given too much in this country. If we did away with socialism, we'd have a balanced budget. Not like we fought 2 wars on national credit ey?

I get the mentality, but if you're going to call out socialism or welfare, call it out in its entirety. Far too much of our money goes to the military industrial complex and welfare (which includes corporate welfare. Companies like wal mart pay their workers slave wages, so people rely on the government to supplant that). Banker bailouts deregulation are great too.

There is no denying that capitalism works great when it's based on a competitive market and competitive wages in the workforce. By and large we have neither.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 03:23 PM

Yeah we totally live in rampant socialism. The woes of our national debt are all tied into entitlements. People are just given too much in this country. If we did away with socialism, we'd have a balanced budget. Not like we fought 2 wars on national credit ey?

I get the mentality, but if you're going to call out socialism or welfare, call it out in its entirety. Far too much of our money goes to the military industrial complex and welfare (which includes corporate welfare. Companies like wal mart pay their workers slave wages, so people rely on the government to supplant that). Banker bailouts deregulation are great too.

There is no denying that capitalism works great when it's based on a competitive market and competitive wages in the workforce. By and large we have neither.

It's not just welfare, I understand that. Basically 3 parts, for the US that is. Welfare, Government pensions and Military. The military part is why these "Democratic Socialist" countries in Europe have held up as long as they have, they basically don't spend any money on military, that's our job in the scheme.

I'm totally cool saying we don't have pure Capitalism, we wouldn't of had these bailouts if we did.

time4fun

02-01-2017, 03:24 PM

Rambling

I hate to break it to you, but the fact that you inaccurately described socialism isn't a vast left wing conspiracy against you.

Sorry Kellyanne, there's no such thing as "alternative facts"- you were just wrong.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 03:43 PM

I hate to break it to you, but the fact that you inaccurately described socialism isn't a vast left wing conspiracy against you.

Sorry Kellyanne, there's no such thing as "alternative facts"- you were just wrong.

Then explain Democratic Socialism

I mean I know you're just one of the useful idiots, but please try.

Methais

02-01-2017, 03:54 PM

I hate to break it to you, but the fact that you inaccurately described socialism isn't a vast left wing conspiracy against you.

So him saying socialism isn't a vast left wing conspiracy against him is inaccurate?

I knew it!

in b4 sarchasm

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 04:32 PM

So him saying socialism isn't a vast left wing conspiracy against him is inaccurate?

I knew it!

in b4 sarchasm

The EU is in complete panic mode over Brexit, Trump and the immigrant influx. The unemployment numbers are massive among the immigrants

02-01-2017, 06:02 PM

Then explain Democratic Socialism

It's what you'll hope we have in place when all our jobs are automated over the next 30 years or so.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 06:20 PM

It's what you'll hope we have in place when all our jobs are automated over the next 30 years or so.

You're able to predict the future yet can't explain Democratic Socialism? I wonder if they were saying the same thing during the industrial revolution?

02-01-2017, 06:24 PM

You're able to predict the future yet can't explain Democratic Socialism? I wonder if they were saying the same thing during the industrial revolution?

It was meant more tongue-in-cheek than anything. However, in the financial field there are already bank branch offices that are 7 or 8 ATMs and one person that monitors them, and nothing else.

It's not a prediction, it's already happening.

Wrathbringer

02-01-2017, 06:27 PM

I farted.

Archigeek

02-01-2017, 06:49 PM

Then explain Democratic Socialism

I mean I know you're just one of the useful idiots, but please try.

Maybe this will help you, since what you really want to know is what is Bernie Sander's version of Democratic Socialism right? Or is your question rhetorical? In which case, who cares?

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/presidential-campaign/271652-what-does-sanders-mean-by-democratic-socialism

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 07:06 PM

Maybe this will help you, since what you really want to know is what is Bernie Sander's version of Democratic Socialism right? Or is your question rhetorical? In which case, who cares?

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/presidential-campaign/271652-what-does-sanders-mean-by-democratic-socialism

It kind of reads just like I described. More taxes, more government control and promises of free stuff.

Good luck with that. How many lives is it going to cost us this time?

Archigeek

02-01-2017, 07:07 PM

It kind of reads just like I described. More taxes, more government control and promises of free stuff.

Good luck with that. How many lives is it going to cost us this time?

Glad I could help.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 07:13 PM

Just read a statement from one of the Brits supporting Brexit. Went something like this, how is it Democratic if we can't say no?

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 08:15 PM

Glad I could help.

Thanks man.

Warriorbird

02-01-2017, 08:44 PM

I've long ago given up hope that some people will ever understand the difference between political and economic philosophies.

drauz

02-01-2017, 08:59 PM

I've long ago given up hope that some people will ever understand the difference between political and economic philosophies.

How is democratic socialism not a political philosophy?

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 09:08 PM

I've long ago given up hope that some people will ever understand the difference between political and economic philosophies.

I can't believe you're a teacher if you believe in this shit. Even Darwin is saying WTF?

tyrant-201

02-01-2017, 09:19 PM

How is democratic socialism not a political philosophy?

By its name, it indicates it is both. But people like to lump it squarely into the 'socialism' sphere without discussion of some of its merits.

That said, I don't agree with a purely socialist economic system. I believe it can benefit some spheres of the economy, and obviously hinder some areas where it doesn't need to exist.

Warriorbird

02-01-2017, 09:23 PM

How is democratic socialism not a political philosophy?

His stupid comparison was about "National Socialism." This is much like the idea that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually Democratic or a Republic.

I can't believe you're a teacher if you believe in this shit. Even Darwin is saying WTF?

I imagine you want to ban all discussion of Darwin so I doubt it.

That said, I don't agree with a purely socialist economic system. I believe it can benefit some spheres of the economy, and obviously hinder some areas where it doesn't need to exist.

"Purely socialistic." is a sort of weird concept. Socialist countries typically have a mixed economy. Like ours. The government controlling all aspects of the economy would be Communism.

This concept is beyond Pirate/Neveragain.

tyrant-201

02-01-2017, 10:09 PM

His stupid comparison was about "National Socialism." This is much like the idea that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually Democratic or a Republic.

I imagine you want to ban all discussion of Darwin so I doubt it.

"Purely socialistic." is a sort of weird concept. Socialist countries typically have a mixed economy. Like ours. The government controlling all aspects of the economy would be Communism.

This concept is beyond Pirate/Neveragain.

Right, Communism is the boogeyman they keep floating around whenever socialism is brought up. There's no way that some things would be better off/more efficient using that system, right? Heh.

Warriorbird

02-01-2017, 10:15 PM

Right, Communism is the boogeyman they keep floating around whenever socialism is brought up. There's no way that some things would be better off/more efficient using that system, right? Heh.

It typically gets taken advantage of and creates problematic disincentives. Much like pure capitalism.

drauz

02-01-2017, 10:57 PM

His stupid comparison was about "National Socialism." This is much like the idea that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually Democratic or a Republic.

Technically it is, they vote. Pay no attention that there is or can only be one name on the ballot.

drauz

02-01-2017, 10:59 PM

I imagine you want to ban all discussion of Darwin so I doubt it.

If I remember correctly he is in the camp of teaching Darwin but teaching creationism as another "theory".

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 11:31 PM

Technically it is, they vote. Pay no attention that there is or can only be one name on the ballot.

Over time it doesn't matter how many names are on the ballot, once government healthcare is at risk of being taken away that's when shackles clamp shut until lives are sacrificed to conserve rations. Voters will always choose the candidate who doesn't threaten to take away their lives. The poorer the voter the more dependent. The snowball grows too large for the state so sacrifices are made.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 11:34 PM

If I remember correctly he is in the camp of teaching Darwin but teaching creationism as another "theory".

Yup

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 11:39 PM

It typically gets taken advantage of and creates problematic disincentives. Much like pure capitalism.

Capitalism at least allows for one to make their own way no matter how hard the struggle. It rewards hard work and punishes stagnation. Just like laws of nature.

tyrant-201

02-01-2017, 11:44 PM

Over time it doesn't matter how many names are on the ballot, once government healthcare is at risk of being taken away that's when shackles clamp shut until lives are sacrificed to conserve rations. Voters will always choose the candidate who doesn't threaten to take away their lives. The poorer the voter the more dependent. The snowball grows too large for the state so sacrifices are made.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in most of these nations with nationwide healthcare I imagine threatening to take it away is a sort of political death sentence. Is that because it works, or it doesn't work and opposing opinions are suppressed? If it didn't work, surely we'd find some example of a highly industrialized nation reverting.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 11:54 PM

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in most of these nations with nationwide healthcare I imagine threatening to take it away is a sort of political death sentence. Is that because it works, or it doesn't work and opposing opinions are suppressed? If it didn't work, surely we'd find some example of a highly industrialized nation reverting.

Of course it's a death sentence, yes it may work well at first, over time though the demand on that service will become too great for the state to meet demand. The state then has 4 options, ration, taxation, depopulation or expansion for resources. This will continue to snowball those options. It's as constant as any physical law.

time4fun

02-01-2017, 11:54 PM

It kind of reads just like I described. More taxes, more government control and promises of free stuff.

Good luck with that. How many lives is it going to cost us this time?

Yeah, Scandinavian countries are really hurting right now.

You're a fool. You're so twisted up inside that you think a sick, uneducated, and impoverished country is free while a country that cares for its citizens is somehow shackled. Your philosophy works against your own best interests and the best interests of everyone else.

Neveragain

02-01-2017, 11:59 PM

What we are seeing with Brexit is a good example of your nation wanting to opt out

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 12:05 AM

Yeah, Scandinavian countries are really hurting right now.

You're a fool. You're so twisted up inside that you think a sick, uneducated, and impoverished country is free while a country that cares for its citizens is somehow shackled. Your philosophy works against your own best interests and the best interests of everyone else.

You can argue with gravity all you want. Look at the tax chart I posted earlier, how many years until that reaches 100% and then what, that tax increase is going to sky rocket because of the immigration explosion. Capitalism has enriched more poor than any other system yet devised by man. Accept that gravity works.

drauz

02-02-2017, 12:06 AM

What we are seeing with Brexit is a good example of your nation wanting to opt out

Opt out of what?

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 12:08 AM

Emotions are infinite, resources are finite. Use logic.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 12:09 AM

Opt out of what?

The EU

drauz

02-02-2017, 12:13 AM

The EU

The thought the question of why was implied, since Brexit is only about leaving the EU.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 12:23 AM

You will have to excuse me for a bit, being entertained by tolerant socialist zombies burn down their socialist indoctrination center in the Socialists Republic of California.

Ravenwood

02-02-2017, 12:31 AM

I don't think you understand what Socialism is.

I think its you who doesn't understand what socialism truly is.

Let me break it down for you:

We do not pay for things with money. We pay for things with seconds, minutes and hours of our lives working to earn a wage. For many of us thats time we spend away from our family, our friends and the things we really want to do. Time that we will NEVER get back. Our lives are our most precious resources. When they are gone, theyre gone.

So twat makes you think that you are entitled to even one rudely asked for second of mine or anyone elses life that isnt freely given?

Socialism is just a polite word for slavery. Even worse, it places a higher value on the lives of the slacker, the drug addict, the mentally infirm, the lazy, the unmotivated etc etc.......and subjugates the most able among us.....and for what?

Your misplaced sense of guilt and/or entitlement?

I dont owe you a damned thing and neither does the rest of the world.

Ardwen

02-02-2017, 12:36 AM

Kembal

02-02-2017, 12:44 AM

Some interesting tidbits about his weekend international leader pone calls, Trump seems to want to invade Mexico to kill drug cartels, and after abruptly ended a call with the Australian PM after things didn't go his way.

Well, if he declares war on Australia, I guess Mad Max is really happening?

Warriorbird

02-02-2017, 12:46 AM

Capitalism at least allows for one to make their own way no matter how hard the struggle. It rewards hard work and punishes stagnation. Just like laws of nature.

Or, alternately, it causes stratification and its own destruction. Or does something staggeringly dumb like destroy its own markets.

drauz

02-02-2017, 12:49 AM

http://trumpdonald.org/

Kembal

02-02-2017, 12:50 AM

I think its you who doesn't understand what socialism truly is.

Let me break it down for you:

We do not pay for things with money. We pay for things with seconds, minutes and hours of our lives working to earn a wage. For many of us thats time we spend away from our family, our friends and the things we really want to do. Time that we will NEVER get back. Our lives are our most precious resources. When they are gone, theyre gone.

So twat makes you think that you are entitled to even one rudely asked for second of mine or anyone elses life that isnt freely given?

Socialism is just a polite word for slavery. Even worse, it places a higher value on the lives of the slacker, the drug addict, the mentally infirm, the lazy, the unmotivated etc etc.......and subjugates the most able among us.....and for what?

Your misplaced sense of guilt and/or entitlement?

I dont owe you a damned thing and neither does the rest of the world.

Ironically, developed countries with more socialist economies have shorter workweeks.

note: I'm not in favor of socialism. But free markets don't work correctly if public goods (externalities) are not factored into costs, and moral hazards are not taken into account. Either you have regulations or some type of pricing mechanism to take care of these issues, or it's suboptimal for society overall.

time4fun

02-02-2017, 08:08 AM

Methais

02-02-2017, 08:18 AM

It was meant more tongue-in-cheek than anything. However, in the financial field there are already bank branch offices that are 7 or 8 ATMs and one person that monitors them, and nothing else.

It's not a prediction, it's already happening.

We're already 2 years late on flying cars, real hoverboards, hydration microwaves, and you still have to use your hands for most video games.

Other than the Cubs pulling through, though a year late, it's not looking too good.

time4fun

02-02-2017, 08:20 AM

You will have to excuse me for a bit, being entertained by tolerant socialist zombies burn down their socialist indoctrination center in the Socialists Republic of California.

You mean one of the largest economies in the world, with more millionaires per capita than most other states in the Union, the best public education system in the country, great health care access, global center of technology, phenomenal agriculture, an actual budget surplus... Need I go on?

I hate to break it to you, but we're doing damn well. Most countries on Earth would be lucky to be doing as well as we are.

So maybe your bitter little self should sit down, shut up, and learn a thing or two about what success looks like.

time4fun

02-02-2017, 08:22 AM

Capitalism at least allows for one to make their own way no matter how hard the struggle. It rewards hard work and punishes stagnation. Just like laws of nature.

Great, now you don't know what capitalism is either.

Seriously, go take some night classes.

Back

02-02-2017, 08:23 AM

I think its you who doesn't understand what socialism truly is.

Let me break it down for you:

We do not pay for things with money. We pay for things with seconds, minutes and hours of our lives working to earn a wage. For many of us thats time we spend away from our family, our friends and the things we really want to do. Time that we will NEVER get back. Our lives are our most precious resources. When they are gone, theyre gone.

So twat makes you think that you are entitled to even one rudely asked for second of mine or anyone elses life that isnt freely given?

Socialism is just a polite word for slavery. Even worse, it places a higher value on the lives of the slacker, the drug addict, the mentally infirm, the lazy, the unmotivated etc etc.......and subjugates the most able among us.....and for what?

Your misplaced sense of guilt and/or entitlement?

I dont owe you a damned thing and neither does the rest of the world.

I'm curious as to where you learned all this. Which grade did you take Current Events or Political Science?

Methais

02-02-2017, 08:28 AM

I'm curious as to where you learned all this. Which grade did you take Current Events or Political Science?

You guys are missing the message here.

I think its you who doesn't understand what socialism truly is.

Let me break it down for you:

We do not pay for things with money. We pay for things with seconds, minutes and hours of our lives working to earn a wage. For many of us thats time we spend away from our family, our friends and the things we really want to do. Time that we will NEVER get back. Our lives are our most precious resources. When they are gone, theyre gone.

So twat makes you think that you are entitled to even one rudely asked for second of mine or anyone elses life that isnt freely given?

Socialism is just a polite word for slavery. Even worse, it places a higher value on the lives of the slacker, the drug addict, the mentally infirm, the lazy, the unmotivated etc etc.......and subjugates the most able among us.....and for what?

Your misplaced sense of guilt and/or entitlement?

I dont owe you a damned thing and neither does the rest of the world.

Did you see how he just oppressed women all over the world?

time4fun

02-02-2017, 08:43 AM

I'm curious as to where you learned all this. Which grade did you take Current Events or Political Science?

ROFL

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 08:51 AM

I'm curious as to where you learned all this. Which grade did you take Current Events or Political Science?

You do know under Capitalism you can still be compassionate, it gives you the individual the ability to decide where you want to show compassion. The problem with a Socialists compassion is they always want to use other peoples money to show their compassion. This proves capitalism is much more moral than Socialism

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 09:00 AM

Some interesting tidbits about his weekend international leader pone calls, Trump seems to want to invade Mexico to kill drug cartels, and after abruptly ended a call with the Australian PM after things didn't go his way.

Please don't tell me you are going with another completely unsourced WAPO hit piece? Come on man think, I know you're smarter than me. Come on bro.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 09:02 AM

Great, now you don't know what capitalism is either.

Seriously, go take some night classes.

OK, sweetheart.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 09:11 AM

Or, alternately, it causes stratification and its own destruction. Or does something staggeringly dumb like destroy its own markets.

You're not going to find any perfect economic system, nor will you find any system That is pure. Capitalism puts your life in your hands, Socialism puts your life in another persons hands. One is freedom one is slavery. People are far less responsible with other peoples money. Our biggest recent mistake was bailing out the banks and industry. They should have been allowed to fail. The poor had nothing to lose, readjustment would have helped decrease the gap between the rich and poor.

Back

02-02-2017, 09:51 AM

You do know under Capitalism you can still be companionate, it gives you the individual the ability to decide where you want to show compassion. The problem with a Socialists compassion is they always want to use other peoples money to show their compassion. This proves capitalism is much more moral than Socialism

Dude, you have some wacko theories that seem to be based on how you feel rather than from any informed position.

You are anthropomorphizing economic systems. Economic systems do not have human traits like good or bad. The people who run them do. If there is a fault in an economic system it is because the people running it are at fault.

We all live in a democratic socialist capitalist republic. Democratic and republic being the government side socialist and capitalist on the economic side.

Do you like nice streets with traffic signals? Police, fire departments, postal services, public schools, libraries, museums, and a whole host of other things? Things we all pay for and share should be considered socialist. Do you like $7 cups of coffee? Thank capitalism.

A family unit is more communist. The bread winners share around so everyone is comfortable and has what they need. Imagine if a family were purely capitalist? Sorry, little Jimmy, you are going to have to go out and get a job, pay rent, buy your own food and clothes, pay for transportation to school, all at the tender age of 8.

We should be looking at each other like we are all family. To help each other out when we need it and we can. All humanity.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 10:16 AM

Dude, you have some wacko theories that seem to be based on how you feel rather than from any informed position.

You are anthropomorphizing economic systems. Economic systems do not have human traits like good or bad. The people who run them do. If there is a fault in an economic system it is because the people running it are at fault.

We all live in a democratic socialist capitalist republic. Democratic and republic being the government side socialist and capitalist on the economic side.

Do you like nice streets with traffic signals? Police, fire departments, postal services, public schools, libraries, museums, and a whole host of other things? Things we all pay for and share should be considered socialist. Do you like $7 cups of coffee? Thank capitalism.

A family unit is more communist. The bread winners share around so everyone is comfortable and has what they need. Imagine if a family were purely capitalist? Sorry, little Jimmy, you are going to have to go out and get a job, pay rent, buy your own food and clothes, pay for transportation to school, all at the tender age of 8.

We should be looking at each other like we are all family. To help each other out when we need it and we can. All humanity.

Feelings are infinite, resources are finite.

Imagine if a family were purely capitalist? Sorry, little Jimmy, you are going to have to go out and get a job, pay rent, buy your own food and clothes, pay for transportation to school, all at the tender age of 8.

Thank you for destroying your argument that a human being suddenly becomes non-dependent the moment it exits the womb.

Do you like nice streets with traffic signals? Police, fire departments, postal services, public schools, libraries, museums, and a whole host of other things? Things we all pay for and share should be considered socialist. Do you like $7 cups of coffee? Thank capitalism.

If you would have read one of my previous posts from just a few minutes ago, you would see that I say there is no pure economic model. It's just how far you push it from one end to the other end of the economic spectrum. You also seem to think you have no responsibility as a consumer. I think I pay maybe .15 cents for a cup of coffee, that's because I don't pay for a fucking logo on a paper cup. You also seem to think many of those services you listed would not be provided by business, it baffles my mind that somehow Henry Ford produced vehicles yet it takes government to pave a flat road.

I'm all for helping humanity but in a logical manner. I'm a proponent of opening some federal land to a homestead act, allowing low income citizens the opportunity at owning land and making use of that land. But I know you're virtue gesturing and care more for trees than humanity.

The people who run them do. If there is a fault in an economic system it is because the people running it are at fault.

You completely contradict yourself in one statement, you are without a doubt a communist. You think there is this small group of people that are completely moral that should run everything, they just happen to be the people you agree with. Fucking centralizing, completely reptilian thinking. I thought we have progressed past this?

time4fun

02-02-2017, 10:18 AM

You're not going to find any perfect economic system, nor will you find any system That is pure. Capitalism puts your life in your hands, Socialism puts your life in another persons hands. One is freedom one is slavery. People are far less responsible with other peoples money. Our biggest recent mistake was bailing out the banks and industry. They should have been allowed to fail. The poor had nothing to lose, readjustment would have helped decrease the gap between the rich and poor.

Oh honey.

Can you even define capitalism and socialism?

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 10:40 AM

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 10:42 AM

Oh honey.

Can you even define capitalism and socialism?

I'm waiting for you to even make an argument let alone define anything. Shouldn't you be making samiches or something?

Methais

02-02-2017, 11:01 AM

If you really feel that socialism is the way of the future. Go over to the auction threads and ask everyone to make all the items they are selling a flat price, then get them all to decide on what those flat prices should be. You will soon find out how quickly you will be laughed out of the forums.

I remember in the late 90s when people used to cry on the officials wanting dumb shit like taxing peoples' bank accounts because the rich people were too rich and the poor people were getting screwed, etc.

Text coins are serious business.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 11:16 AM

I remember in the late 90s when people used to cry on the officials wanting dumb shit like taxing peoples' bank accounts because the rich people were too rich and the poor people were getting screwed, etc.

Text coins are serious business.

Dude, it's totally OK to give away other peoples money.

Liberals are the worst at giving away their money. Pinch some buds out of a liberals bag, that's the way to teach them about taxation.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 11:30 AM

Archigeek

02-02-2017, 12:06 PM

I'll draw a text picture (or try) to define socialism:

Private ownership<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>State ownership
<-----------------------------------------------socialism----------------------------------------------------------->

Best I could do, forced government healthcare drags socialism as close to state ownership as it can possibly be.

Really? You don't think it could get closer to state ownership? You who apparently can't tell democratic socialism from socialism from communism, are defining it in absolute terms. That's a big surprise.

By the way, do you still like Trump? That is after all the topic.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 12:22 PM

Really? You don't think it could get closer to state ownership? You who apparently can't tell democratic socialism from socialism from communism, are defining it in absolute terms. That's a big surprise.

By the way, do you still like Trump? That is after all the topic.

Unless something crazy has happened today (I have not been paying much attention today) after how the socialists acted last night, he went from being a dickbag in my opinion to cut federal funding from California now. So I like him better than I did 2 days ago.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 12:26 PM

Unless something crazy has happened today (I have not been paying much attention today) after how the socialists acted last night, he went from being a dickbag in my opinion to cut federal funding from California now. So I like him better than I did 2 days ago.

As far as your first question, I don't see that in the long term that Democrat socialism over time won't become state control.

Axhinde

02-02-2017, 12:40 PM

As far as your first question, I don't see that in the long term that Democrat socialism over time won't become state control.

If you could predict the future there'd be a very bright future ahead for you, Nostradamus.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 12:56 PM

If you could predict the future there'd be a very bright future ahead for you, Nostradamus.

OK this is what I hear from the Democrat Socialists:

Here man try on these shackles, we will give you a choice of how tightly you want them to be.

So I think to myself...hmmm what does history tell me when a government offers to take care of my health? Oh that's right a lot of people die, they come up with crazy ideas like population control. Then I think more, oh wait these same Democrat Socialists also talk about population control. Then I think more how Democrat Socialists also talk about the need for living space...

Yea no thanks, I'll take care of myself thank you very much. Is that not OK?

zennsunni

02-02-2017, 02:00 PM

Ardwen

02-02-2017, 02:07 PM

So exactly why is Trump lifting sanctions with the Russian intelligence agency? Threatening UC Berkeley, Threatening Iran, its going to be an ugly weak.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 02:19 PM

So exactly why is Trump lifting sanctions with the Russian intelligence agency? Threatening UC Berkeley, Threatening Iran, its going to be an ugly weak.

UC Berkeley Riots, Iran tested a missile and Russia had nothing to do with emails.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 02:22 PM

Neveragain, serious question, not a troll - have you ever left the United States? If so, where did you go? What did you think of the countries you visited, in terms of government structure, how happy the people were, whether they seemed oppressed or not oppressed, kind of general political impression?

None of this matters.

Is it ok if I want to take responsibility for myself and choose who I want to help and how without the government? Can I say no ?

Ardwen

02-02-2017, 02:25 PM

students or visitors rioted, not the Campus staff, Iran isn't barred from testing weapons, except by Israel of course, and if Russia didn't have anything to do with the hacks why are they arresting and disappearing FSB agents?

Kembal

02-02-2017, 02:39 PM

So exactly why is Trump lifting sanctions with the Russian intelligence agency?

That is benign. Apparently all US electronics exports to Russia must be licensed by the FSB, and the sanctions put in place effectively stopped that (b/c no dealings with the FSB allowed). This reallows exports to take place.

Kembal

02-02-2017, 02:47 PM

You also seem to think many of those services you listed would not be provided by business, it baffles my mind that somehow Henry Ford produced vehicles yet it takes government to pave a flat road.

This stood out to me. How do you expect businesses to make money owning and paving a road for everyday public use?

(most government-owned roads are actually paved by contractors)

BigWorm

02-02-2017, 03:21 PM

That is benign. Apparently all US electronics exports to Russia must be licensed by the FSB, and the sanctions put in place effectively stopped that (b/c no dealings with the FSB allowed). This reallows exports to take place.

This is what I've heard as well, despite the fact that it seems fishy on its face. Wonder if it is related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS which some countries are requiring in devices to be less reliant on the US controlled GPS.

Neveragain

02-02-2017, 03:27 PM

This stood out to me. How do you expect businesses to make money owning and paving a road for everyday public use?

(most government-owned roads are actually paved by contractors)

The ability to transfer goods and services. Had we not made roads it's probably a good bet that over time business's would have either independently made roads or joined with other business to make them. Don't get me wrong, I like roads. You also have to understand that part of the reason for our interstate system is for military use in times of a national emergency, primarily for the speedy evacuation of cities in case of a nuclear attack.

http://www.history.com/topics/interstate-highway-system