House Health-Care Proposal Adds $600 Billion in Taxes

[ElanthianSiren]

And thus your definition of a successful business. Let me assure you, that the financial side of things is a huge determining factor in a business being successful.



I'M reaching? You just made the reach that the country is based upon gun ownership and because of that, the police department is doing a great job. How are those crime statistics in Britain again?

It isn't, however, the only facet of a successful entity. Necessity and acting as a safety net is another and why the USPS will likely always be in business. Innovation is another, unless you believe that the US government should never have helped fund development of the internet to pave the way for google, yahoo, AOL, comcast, verizon etc and so on.

You're reaching to try to insinuate that I'm associated with being anti gun, and if you're not aware of it, someone else has been reading and responding for you. I never said that other countries lack crime, but I highly doubt that Britain's police force experiences some of the dangers that ours does.

Furthermore, you're arguing with a strawman (the government is going to take over healthcare and run everything, so name a business the government runs efficiently), as the government itself has said this isn't the plan for healthcare reform.

[Ignot]

Well, looks like PB hit his sensitivity overload, there goes the rational discussion.

[Parkbandit]

Well, looks like PB hit his sensitivity overload, there goes the rational discussion.

Where was your rational discussion again? Read over your posts in this topic and let's compare content. You might not agree with my viewpoint, but I believe I've articulated it far better than anything you have ever attempted to post in a political folder that was anywhere close to being on topic.

You are an ignorant troll, boy. Now run along and let the adults talk.

[Parkbandit]

It isn't, however, the only facet of a successful entity.

Who said it was the only facet of a successful entity? You, on the other hand, blissfully ignore the fiscal side of a business.. like it doesn't really matter.

Necessity and acting as a safety net is another and why the USPS will likely always be in business.

USPS will be around because of the unions. If our Government actually allowed true competition for postal service, it would hemorrhage even more tax dollars every year.. but it still would be around.

Innovation is another, unless you believe that the US government should never have helped fund development of the internet to pave the way for google, yahoo, AOL, comcast, verizon etc and so on.

You believe that the Government created it.. I believe the Government created a favorable environment for it to happen... which is what it should do.

You're reaching to try to insinuate that I'm associated with being anti gun, and if you're not aware of it, someone else has been reading and responding for you.

You initiated the gun debate, darling. You made mention of the law enforcement being a successful entity. I showed how it really wasn't successful using per capita statistics... then you tried to brush that off as it's because we're all gun totin' cowfolks.

I never said that other countries lack crime, but I highly doubt that Britain's police force experiences some of the dangers that ours does.

Britain took away guns from law abiding citizens. Bravo. Now the bad guys, who couldn't give two shits if they broke another law or two.. acquire whatever gun they want and have less worry of a normal everyday citizen shooting them. Many of their crime statistics are just as bad if not worse than the United States.

Furthermore, you're arguing with a strawman (the government is going to take over healthcare and run everything, so name a business the government runs efficiently), as the government itself has said this isn't the plan for healthcare reform.

I realize Obama has stated that he doesn't want universal healthcare.. much like he stated he doesn't want to manage the US vehicle production (oops), manage banks (oops), wants to give 95% of Americans a tax break (oops), that he won't sign a bill until it's been reviewed by the American people for 5 days (oops) and that he will bring a new fiscal responsibility to Washington (oops). You will excuse me if I question his motives and his word.

[ElanthianSiren]

Who said it was the only facet of a successful entity? You, on the other hand, blissfully ignore the fiscal side of a business.. like it doesn't really matter.

I certainly don't harp on it constantly like others in this debate. Additionally, as it comes to healthcare, I don't believe companies should make record profits while shrinking services and behaving in ways not in the interest of their paying customers (ie inability to even read a policy before (predictably) !!you must talk to my supervisor!! Please hold a long while!).

You believe that the Government created it.. I believe the Government created a favorable environment for it to happen... which is what it should do.

The origins of the Internet reach back to the 1960s when the United States funded research projects of its military agencies to build robust, fault-tolerant and distributed computer networks. This research and a period of civilian funding of a new U.S. backbone by the National Science Foundation spawned worldwide participation in the development of new networking technologies and led to the commercialization of an international network in the mid 1990s, and resulted in the following popularization of countless applications in virtually every aspect of modern human life. By 2009, an estimated quarter of Earth's population uses the services of the Internet (see Growth).

The National Science Foundation (NSF) is a United States government agency that supports fundamental research and education in all the non-medical fields of science and engineering. Its medical counterpart is the National Institutes of Health. With an annual budget of about $6.02 billion (fiscal year 2008), NSF funds approximately 20 percent of all federally supported basic research conducted by the United States' colleges and universities. In some fields, such as mathematics, computer science, economics and the social sciences, NSF is the major source of federal backing.

It looks like the US government was involved every step of the way.

You initiated the gun debate, darling. You made mention of the law enforcement being a successful entity. I showed how it really wasn't successful using per capita statistics... then you tried to brush that off as it's because we're all gun totin' cowfolks.

Hardly. I simply noted that police departments do their job reasonably well, which is to keep order. You brought in other countries, and I noted that you're not comparing apples to apples.

I realize Obama has stated that he doesn't want universal healthcare.. much like he stated he doesn't want to manage the US vehicle production (oops), manage banks (oops), wants to give 95% of Americans a tax break (oops), that he won't sign a bill until it's been reviewed by the American people for 5 days (oops) and that he will bring a new fiscal responsibility to Washington (oops). You will excuse me if I question his motives and his word.

If he was going for single payer, I doubt his advisory board on the matter would be from the major health care companies.

[Parkbandit]

I certainly don't harp on it constantly like others in this debate. Additionally, as it comes to healthcare, I don't believe companies should make record profits while shrinking services and behaving in ways not in the interest of their paying customers (ie inability to even read a policy before (predictably) !!you must talk to my supervisor!! Please hold a long while!).

If only the world was made of sugar plums and pixie dust..

It looks like the US government was involved every step of the way.

It would have happened regardless of the US Government's involvement. No need to put them up on a pedestal.

Hardly. I simply noted that police departments do their job reasonably well, which is to keep order. You brought in other countries, and I noted that you're not comparing apples to apples.

You need to revisit this thread of the chain of events and who first brought up law enforcement and guns.

If he was going for single payer, I doubt his advisory board on the matter would be from the major health care companies.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Hey, maybe Obama will actually keep his word for once. OR, maybe he's simple setting us up. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[4a6c1]

Britian is a bad example for lack of gun crime. Very bad. I cant speak to street crime statistics but I can speak to the organized crime. Gun parts are almost unregulated over there. The system is broken for monitoring gun traffic and interpol largely ignores the problem. As a result Britian is prime area for traffickers and machine gun parts are produced in mass quantity and exported and sold to everyone everywhere...including us. Remington is a large buyer for 'scrap metal' exported from Britian. It is actually cheaper for them to buy their parts from wholesale manufacturers in the United Kingdom than to make it theirselves. Are these taxed as weapon parts? No. Are these regulated by the government? No. This is what happens when one country ignores a problem hoping it just goes away.

Eh..I have nothing else to say on topic. I'm just hoping my premiums dont go up.

[ElanthianSiren]

maybe Obama will actually keep his word for once. OR, maybe he's simple setting us up. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

I don't believe much in politics has to do with keeping your word. It's more 'what can I get out of it'.

IMO Obama can't get much out of universal care except pissing off a large number of people with private insurance, losing a major rallying cry for the Kucinnich-type supporters of the democratic party, and invoking immeasurable debt and thus pissing off fiscally conservative democrats aut infinatum.

If I was playing politics with it, the better investment would be to do reform IMO and then bitch later about how the system is still broken because republicans somehow blocked efforts at comprehensive reform (despite having both chambers and the executive branch). In this, dems get to blame republicans, keep the universal care people enthused with a carrot stick approach (because hey! we tried, right?!), reform the system somewhat to keep constituents pacified and the lobbyists/healthcare happy and in business, and the republicans have less to attack on because it's a reform, not universal care.

I see no gain in trying for universal, single payer care right now, but I suppose we'll see. What makes you think they will?

[radamanthys]

I don't believe much in politics has to do with keeping your word. It's more 'what can I get out of it'.

IMO Obama can't get much out of universal care except pissing off a large number of people with private insurance, losing a major rallying cry for the Kucinnich-type supporters of the democratic party, and invoking immeasurable debt and thus pissing off fiscally conservative democrats aut infinatum.

If I was playing politics with it, the better investment would be to do reform IMO and then bitch later about how the system is still broken because republicans somehow blocked efforts at comprehensive reform (despite having both chambers and the executive branch). In this, dems get to blame republicans, keep the universal care people enthused with a carrot stick approach (because hey! we tried, right?!), reform the system somewhat to keep constituents pacified and the lobbyists/healthcare happy and in business, and the republicans have less to attack on because it's a reform, not universal care.

I see no gain in trying for universal, single payer care right now, but I suppose we'll see. What makes you think they will?

I'm going to give you the biggest insult you will ever get in your life:

You'd make an excellent politician. The above analysis is quite cogent.

[Bhuryn]

I'm pretty sure our infantry is better than any other in the world. I doubt you want to say otherwise. The point being is that it doesn't help your point to deal in absolutes. There are things governments do well and things they don't, but sometimes it takes a little bit of both to get the best benefit. China is proving that every day.

See this thread: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=43382