FBI raid on Trump's home

[Neveragain]

This is a amusingly twisted take on things

Tell us more about how men can breastfeed.

[Sighisoara]

This is a amusingly twisted take on things

No, what I'm telling you is that investigators from various parts of the DoJ showed up to Mar-a-Lago and served him with a court subpoena for several boxes of materials. And his legal team wisely decided it would be a very bad idea to turn them away in that moment.

What I'm also telling you is that happened months after the National Archives finally worked out a time to pick another set of records Trump was illegally holding because they were threatening legal action at that point. And classified information was found in those boxes.

And what I'm telling you is that Trump was so resistant to turning this stuff over completely that he fought for 15 months, and eventually it got to the point where a warrant had to be issued to physically force him to turn over a THIRD set of documents (20 boxes) that he was hiding from them and refusing to turn over willingly. And it turns out some of the information included material at the highest levels of security classification and reportedly some materials related to nuclear weapons- which even a *current* President doesn't have the right to declassify and hold in an unsecured, private residence. Let alone a former President.

So your spin here that somehow this is all amounts to Trump "letting" people come take these Presidential records away is...honestly fucking bizarre.

You keep claiming that he “fought” to keep the records for 15 months, what exactly was he doing to fight them? Simply ignoring them is not an affirmative act. Given that the primary statute cited for potential prosecution (the one he pushed Congress to amend and then signed, ironically) requires a willful retention, I think it’s a valid defense to claim the government had multiple opportunities to remove the records and elected not to for whatever reason.

That being said, I donÂ’t know where these records were kept in relation to the others which were removed. If that turns out to be different, he very well may have a problem.

[Sighisoara]

Why did they have to keep going back and back and back again to get the documents? Obviously he didn’t want to turn them all over. He knew exactly what he had. That’s why he was shocked when Garland said unseal the search warrant. Why did Trump’s team continuously drag their feet turning over documents? How did the FBI know exactly where these documents were, that were labeled TOP SECRET?
He did allow them multiple times, that doesn’t mean he was completely forthcoming with what he had. Why didn’t he just turn everything over the first time? To say Trump was ignorant of what he had is complete bullshit. He was well aware of what he had that’s exactly why he refused to turn everything over the first times.

I don’t know, I tend to think the stuff Trump is ignorant of could almost be squeezed into the Grand Canyon. That’s why I have a hard time believing this is some sort of intentional, nefarious scheme on his part.

[Sighisoara]

You're correct that Seran is quoting DoJ guidelines. But the particular pieces he cited come directly from Executive Order 12958, which pertains to all classified information across the Executive Branch. Basically they just copied key provisions from the EO into the DoJ guidelines to ensure compliance.

That same EO, by the way, also explicitly states that an original classification authority (which includes the President) must classify/declassify according to the procedures set out in the EO. It also clearly distinguishes a Presidential directive from classification/declassification. Classification/Declassification happens through the agency/authority who owns that information/document. The role of the President allows them to direct agencies to classify or declassify (except in a set of circumstances that Seran actually quoted from that appear to limit even the President), but it is not classified or declassified until the agency has done so according to the rules and procedures of the EO.

That part is less for you and more for other people who are trying to argue that Trump had psychic powers to silently declassify documents. He didn't- according to Presidential Executive Order. The only way he could have had that authority is if he had issued a new EO outlining it.

I didn’t read that EO the same way (that there’s a procedure for the President). The procedures are for the various agencies, hence the appeal procedure with the President as the final arbiter. This doesn’t limit a President’s ability to classify or declassify.

[Solkern]

I don’t know, I tend to think the stuff Trump is ignorant of could almost be squeezed into the Grand Canyon. That’s why I have a hard time believing this is some sort of intentional, nefarious scheme on his part.

Being ignorant isn’t an excuse, at all.. especially when it deals with top secret documents. Next, I don’t buy the ignorance excuse, that would have worked if he turned them all over the first time, he keeping them and forcing the FBI to raid his house shows a level of intent and knowledge of what he had.

[Tgo01]

he keeping them and forcing the FBI to raid his house shows a level of intent and knowledge of what he had.

Why are you just assuming the FBI was "forced" to raid his home? Because the FBI told you so?

The same FBI who slandered an innocent man named Richard Jewell, who found pipe bombs during the 1996 Olympics and saved many lives by evacuating the area, but the FBI named as the main suspect for months?

That same FBI? You're just gonna believe them?

Keep licking boots.

[Solkern]

Why are you just assuming the FBI was "forced" to raid his home? Because the FBI told you so?

The same FBI who slandered an innocent man named Richard Jewell, who found pipe bombs during the 1996 Olympics and saved many lives by evacuating the area, but the FBI named as the main suspect for months?

That same FBI? You're just gonna believe them?

Keep licking boots.

I think you are misunderstanding my use of “force”. Trump forced the government to use the FBI to raid his home because of his failure to turn over TOP SECRET information, after repeated attempts by the govt to get them back without resorting to this, along with Trump’s reluctance and failure to not hand over all the documents he took, multiple times.

[Tgo01]

Trump forced the FBI to raid his home because of his failure to turn over TOP SECRET information

And according to Trump:

- The documents were declassified by him while he was still president.
- The FBI knew about the documents and had access to them prior to the raid and did not remove them from his house, instead they said to put another lock on the door where they were being stored and Trump did so.

Now you can be like Shaft and just automatically assume Trump is 100% lying and the FBI is 100% telling the truth because they have never lied to the American public before, but at least come out and say that. Don't just act like the only facts we have is the FBI's perspective.

[Solkern]

And according to Trump:

- The documents were declassified by him while he was still president.
- The FBI knew about the documents and had access to them prior to the raid and did not remove them from his house, instead they said to put another lock on the door where they were being stored and Trump did so.

Now you can be like Shaft and just automatically assume Trump is 100% lying and the FBI is 100% telling the truth because they have never lied to the American public before, but at least come out and say that. Don't just act like the only facts we have is the FBI's perspective.

According to trump means absolutely nothing.

There’s a process to declassify documents, it’s not just Trump saying I declassified them. Doesn’t work that way.

Do you think that warrant would have been signed and issued if those documents were indeed declassified? Obviously Trump has classified documents he wasn’t supposed to have….that’s obvious.
I 100% believe Trump is lying. A search warrant wouldn’t have been signed off on, on a former President, unless they had absolute evidence that Trump did have classified documents. It would have been a massive political shit storm. .

[Parkbandit]

A search warrant wouldn’t have been signed off on, on a former President, unless they had absolute evidence that Trump did have classified documents. It would have been a massive political shit storm. .

What?

It's like you haven't been paying attention for the last 6 years.

Like at all.