Russia Just Invaded Ukraine

[Seran]

Up until the last handful of years, Ukraine has been a cesspool of former Soviet corruption and as recently at 2013, had a corrupt Russian installed Present, Viktor Yanukovych, who then proceeded to undo a decade and a half of progress into their European Union membership. This ultimately led to Crimea being annexed by Russia without any follow up by Ukraine itself.

So no, Ukraine joining NATO would just make the issues of poor governance Ukraine the military issues of Europe and the US.

Ukraine should have counter invaded Crimea and kicked it the Russian occupiers, they would have been in no worse shape than they are now and arguably would have an easier time defending southern Ukraine had they've done it.

Zelenskyy said that his country is looking for commitments from "leading nations" that Ukraine’s security will be protected with a treaty if it is to agree to a deescalation with Russia and reiterated his belief that Ukraine would be a beneficial addition to NATO.

"It’s hard for us to talk about NATO because NATO doesn't want to admit us," Zelenskyy said. "I think it's a mistake because if we join NATO, we make NATO much stronger. We are not a weak state. We are not proposing to make us stronger at the expense of NATO…We are an addition, we are the locomotive. I think we are one of the important components of the European continent."

The Ukrainian president added that he has spoken with President Biden and told him he would like to see the United States included in a security agreement that would provide long-term support for Ukraine to address the possibility Russia would to invade again in the future. Zelenskyy said that the United States is "considering this proposition

."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/zel...esides-victory

[Alfster]

Not really. Plenty of countries are lining up to do business with Russia. Europe is still begging Russia for gas and oil.



And now they'll probably spend even more money beefing up their military using money Europe, China, and their new buddy India gives them.

And none of those countries lining up are in the west. Putin seems to think he's still in the cold war. He's shown his cards and they're laughable at best - tactics built for WW2 are proving to be deathtraps.. again.

Ukraine being able to strike Russia in their homeland is a fairly large game changer.

Russia has proven money isn't as important as you'd think. They are a top 3 military spending country, who simply tosses bodies at a problem

[Parkbandit]

Ukraine being able to strike Russia in their homeland is a fairly large game changer.

If the reports are true.. it was 2 helicopters that attacked a fuel depot right on the border... no injuries.

What game did it change?

[Gelston]

If the reports are true.. it was 2 helicopters that attacked a fuel depot right on the border... no injuries.

What game did it change?

It was still and attack into Russia. The same area had also been hit by missiles earlier.

[Parkbandit]

It was still and attack into Russia. The same area had also been hit by missiles earlier.

If certain accounts are true, then yes. It was an attack into Russia.

I wouldn't consider it even remotely close to any game changing moment though.

[Gelston]

If certain accounts are true, then yes. It was an attack into Russia.

I wouldn't consider it even remotely close to any game changing moment though.

You might not, but it is.

[Parkbandit]

You might not, but it is.

So, what specifically did this change?

[Gelston]

So, what specifically did this change?

That Ukrainian air assets are still in operation? That they made a manned offensive into Russia? That locals will have seen and heard this and it is harder for Russian state media to cover up? Rumours from locals that Russia territory has been hit by Ukraine will spread all over the place.

If you can't see this, then don't worry about it.

[Parkbandit]

That Ukrainian air assets are still in operation?

Didn't we already know that? Plus, hasn't NATO said they will be getting MiGs someday, giving them additional air assets?

Nothing has changed.

That they made a manned offensive into Russia?

Does this mean they have won the war? That they will now invade Russia?

Or was it just one attack that in the grand scope of things means very little.

That locals will have seen and heard this and it is harder for Russian state media to cover up?

Wasn't it Russia that first reported it, while Ukraine said they didn't do it?

Rumours from locals that Russia territory has been hit by Ukraine will spread all over the place.

Grats?

If you can't see this, then don't worry about it.

I'm not worried about it in the least... but it's not a game changer at all, since not a thing has changed. At all.

Russia will continue to pound Ukraine cities and civilians and Ukranians will continue to fight back.

Examples of some real "game changers" in history of war:

Lend Lease program in WWII.
The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.
Britain's defeat at Trenton.
Battle of Gettysburg.
Pearl Harbor.
Siege at Yorktown.
Nuclear weapon used on Japan.

Each one of these events changed the course of the war.

This was one fuel depot just across a border by 2 helicopters.

[Gelston]

They aren't getting MiGs, first of all. And other than drones, Ukrainian air assets have been notably absent since the first week of the conflict.

And no, it doesn't mean they've won the war, but Russians that aren't actual combatants are going to start seeing that "hey, maybe this isn't a slam dunk like Putin and our news have said."

It is a huge difference from a month ago when everyone, myself included, thought Ukraine was going to be crushed in a week. It is a huge morale boost.

Things have changed. Again, if you can't see how, I don't know what to tell you. Just don't worry about it.