Terrorists break into US Capitol Building

[Suppressed Poet]

Well, first off, so what? We're not talking about whether or not I'm a shithead here. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not, it's irrelevant.

The phrase mostly peaceful is unrelated to any broadcast. It's just the phrase I used to describe the situation. You may have seen memes or whatever based on that but it's the first I'm hearing of it.

The 93% number comes from The Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED) which is a nonprofit that monitors political violence around the world. The link there will tell you who funds them.

The 93% is actually an old number from 2020, they did an update to the report and the number increased to 94% with the data from 2021.

The report also found this:

Let’s be real…the overwhelming majority of liberals & conservatives who protest do so lawfully and peacefully. It tends to be the vocal minority fringe radicals on both sides that use violence as a tool. I’m sure you are a decent law abiding citizen. I view you as a fellow American, and I hope you see me the same way. We may have vastly opposing political views, but one of the beautiful things about this great country is we can peacefully coexist & debate our ideas. Hell we may even call each other an asshat from time to time.

The problem I have with BLM, as I’m sure you are aware, is that the political organization (not talking about people simply chanting the phrase) is a radical destructive America-hating terrorist organization founded by a couple of self proclaimed Marxists hell bent to tear down the very fabric of our society. When such people make their mortal enemy to be law enforcement, and in these protests they frequently physically & verbally assault them… Well I don’t discount that your statistics / study may show the police treats such protesters peacefully or otherwise differently. Cops are human beings like the rest of us…flawed and fallible.

[Flap]

Let’s be real…the overwhelming majority of liberals & conservatives who protest do so lawfully and peacefully. It tends to be the vocal minority fringe radicals on both sides that use violence as a tool. I’m sure you are a decent law abiding citizen. I view you as a fellow American, and I hope you see me the same way. We may have vastly opposing political views, but one of the beautiful things about this great country is we can peacefully coexist & debate our ideas. Hell we may even call each other an asshat from time to time.

You seem like an okay dude.

The problem I have with BLM, as I’m sure you are aware, is that the political organization (not talking about people simply chanting the phrase) is a radical destructive America-hating terrorist organization founded by a couple of self proclaimed Marxists hell bent to tear down the very fabric of our society. When such people make their mortal enemy to be law enforcement, and in these protests they frequently physically & verbally assault them… Well I don’t discount that your statistics / study may show the police treats such protesters peacefully or otherwise differently. Cops are human beings like the rest of us…flawed and fallible.

While the Marxist part of that may be true, I think if you actually put effort into researching them and the cause that they're promoting, you'll find that you're very wrong. BLM is just another name for the Civil Rights movement, and all they want is equal treatment. The BLM movement is much broader than the org that shares its name. The people you're referring to did not "found" the moment, it started as a Twitter hashtag after the Zimmerman incident. It is a decentralized movement, meaning no one org can claim ownership or control over the message. MLK is more of a founder to the movement than the people you were referencing. I urge you to read his writings beyond the "I have a dream" speech, you may be VERY surprised at what you find.

Yes, there have been riots and bad actors.

However, any event where a large number of people are protesting is vulnerable to 2 things, regardless of who's protesting:

1- People who come out purely for the chaos, who just want to use it as an excuse to break shit. Many humans have a strong destructive streak, and a protest provides the perfect cover and a crowd to hide in. It also gives them a ready supply of others who are upset about a given issue, and may already be on the verge of destructive behavior. When they see someone breaking shit, it can cause a chain reaction where they release their frustration via destruction. I'm not saying this to excuse anyone, just stating it's a factor.

2- Agents provocateur. People opposed to the message of the protests, but are there for the express purpose of exploiting that factor I just mentioned. They dress like protestors and blend in, then engage in destructive or violent behavior with the express purpose of inciting a riot, or at the very least to do something that "crosses the line" to allow authorities to start using violence against the protestors.

Also, I wanted to come back to the Marxist part. You use that word as if a person who is a Marxist is automatically an evil person. It's just a person who is supporter of some of Marx's ideas. Are you able to see past the veil of COMMUNISM BAD? Even if you think that his ideas are terrible, why are they so terrible that a Marxist is an automatic baddie? I know, I know, 14 billion people dead because communism or whatever, but they're still just ideas. They must be pretty powerful ideas, if people are so afraid of them!

(Yes, I know you could say the same thing of Nazis and other bigots or terrible people, but there's a pretty big difference between "WE SHOULD KILL ALL THE JEWS" and "Probably we shouldn't have billionaires and we should use tax money to take care of our people rather than bombing other countries and buying tanks for our police.")

Certain types of people like to talk about the Marketplace of Ideas, but I've noticed that they also tend to have certain ideas that are COMPLETELY OUT OF THE QUESTION! Those are usually ideas that involve helping people less fortunate than themselves at the expense of their own wealth. Usually ideas that will cause the ruling class of the wealthy to lose a bit of their power and/or wealth. Really makes ya think!

[Neveragain]

You seem like an okay dude.



While the Marxist part of that may be true, I think if you actually put effort into researching them and the cause that they're promoting, you'll find that you're very wrong. BLM is just another name for the Civil Rights movement, and all they want is equal treatment. The BLM movement is much broader than the org that shares its name. The people you're referring to did not "found" the moment, it started as a Twitter hashtag after the Zimmerman incident. It is a decentralized movement, meaning no one org can claim ownership or control over the message. MLK is more of a founder to the movement than the people you were referencing. I urge you to read his writings beyond the "I have a dream" speech, you may be VERY surprised at what you find.

Yes, there have been riots and bad actors.

However, any event where a large number of people are protesting is vulnerable to 2 things, regardless of who's protesting:

1- People who come out purely for the chaos, who just want to use it as an excuse to break shit. Many humans have a strong destructive streak, and a protest provides the perfect cover and a crowd to hide in. It also gives them a ready supply of others who are upset about a given issue, and may already be on the verge of destructive behavior. When they see someone breaking shit, it can cause a chain reaction where they release their frustration via destruction. I'm not saying this to excuse anyone, just stating it's a factor.

2- Agents provocateur. People opposed to the message of the protests, but are there for the express purpose of exploiting that factor I just mentioned. They dress like protestors and blend in, then engage in destructive or violent behavior with the express purpose of inciting a riot, or at the very least to do something that "crosses the line" to allow authorities to start using violence against the protestors.

Also, I wanted to come back to the Marxist part. You use that word as if a person who is a Marxist is automatically an evil person. It's just a person who is supporter of some of Marx's ideas. Are you able to see past the veil of COMMUNISM BAD? Even if you think that his ideas are terrible, why are they so terrible that a Marxist is an automatic baddie? I know, I know, 14 billion people dead because communism or whatever, but they're still just ideas. They must be pretty powerful ideas, if people are so afraid of them!

(Yes, I know you could say the same thing of Nazis and other bigots or terrible people, but there's a pretty big difference between "WE SHOULD KILL ALL THE JEWS" and "Probably we shouldn't have billionaires and we should use tax money to take care of our people rather than bombing other countries and buying tanks for our police.")

Certain types of people like to talk about the Marketplace of Ideas, but I've noticed that they also tend to have certain ideas that are COMPLETELY OUT OF THE QUESTION! Those are usually ideas that involve helping people less fortunate than themselves at the expense of their own wealth. Usually ideas that will cause the ruling class of the wealthy to lose a bit of their power and/or wealth. Really makes ya think!

Tennessee BLM founder sentenced to 6 years in prison for illegally voting:

https://www.fox13news.com/news/tenne...legally-voting

California DOJ targets BLM for failing to provide tax documents:

https://www.yahoo.com/video/californ...160200500.html

However, there is no recognized leader of the organization that received $90 million in donations in 2020, according to news reports. The organization’s executive director, and co-founder of the movement Patrisse Cullors, stepped down in May after being criticized for her multimillion-dollar real estate portfolio. The other co-founders had already cut ties with the organization, and everyone else declined to assume the role.

Literally sounds like BLM is turning out to be nothing more than an organized crime syndicate.

[Suppressed Poet]

You seem like an okay dude.



While the Marxist part of that may be true, I think if you actually put effort into researching them and the cause that they're promoting, you'll find that you're very wrong. BLM is just another name for the Civil Rights movement, and all they want is equal treatment. The BLM movement is much broader than the org that shares its name. The people you're referring to did not "found" the moment, it started as a Twitter hashtag after the Zimmerman incident. It is a decentralized movement, meaning no one org can claim ownership or control over the message. MLK is more of a founder to the movement than the people you were referencing. I urge you to read his writings beyond the "I have a dream" speech, you may be VERY surprised at what you find.

Yes, there have been riots and bad actors.

However, any event where a large number of people are protesting is vulnerable to 2 things, regardless of who's protesting:

1- People who come out purely for the chaos, who just want to use it as an excuse to break shit. Many humans have a strong destructive streak, and a protest provides the perfect cover and a crowd to hide in. It also gives them a ready supply of others who are upset about a given issue, and may already be on the verge of destructive behavior. When they see someone breaking shit, it can cause a chain reaction where they release their frustration via destruction. I'm not saying this to excuse anyone, just stating it's a factor.

2- Agents provocateur. People opposed to the message of the protests, but are there for the express purpose of exploiting that factor I just mentioned. They dress like protestors and blend in, then engage in destructive or violent behavior with the express purpose of inciting a riot, or at the very least to do something that "crosses the line" to allow authorities to start using violence against the protestors.

Also, I wanted to come back to the Marxist part. You use that word as if a person who is a Marxist is automatically an evil person. It's just a person who is supporter of some of Marx's ideas. Are you able to see past the veil of COMMUNISM BAD? Even if you think that his ideas are terrible, why are they so terrible that a Marxist is an automatic baddie? I know, I know, 14 billion people dead because communism or whatever, but they're still just ideas. They must be pretty powerful ideas, if people are so afraid of them!

(Yes, I know you could say the same thing of Nazis and other bigots or terrible people, but there's a pretty big difference between "WE SHOULD KILL ALL THE JEWS" and "Probably we shouldn't have billionaires and we should use tax money to take care of our people rather than bombing other countries and buying tanks for our police.")

Certain types of people like to talk about the Marketplace of Ideas, but I've noticed that they also tend to have certain ideas that are COMPLETELY OUT OF THE QUESTION! Those are usually ideas that involve helping people less fortunate than themselves at the expense of their own wealth. Usually ideas that will cause the ruling class of the wealthy to lose a bit of their power and/or wealth. Really makes ya think!

I’ll intentionally try keep my response somewhat short as I only have a few minutes:

On the BLM part, I tried to acknowledge the distinction between the formal political organization vs. the decentralized civil rights movement as you describe it. I recognize there is a huge difference between the two. Unfortunately they share the same name and logo, so in things like organized protests or riots they two things tend to be convoluted & conjoined.

I don’t deny that it’s an unfortunate reality in this country that the color of one’s skin has an impact on how our society interacts with said individual. Yes racism does still exist today. I can even go so far as to find some middle ground to admit that a racial majority has certain…makes me sick to even say this…shall we say inherent societal privileges vs people in a racial minority. This is a problem with humanity itself and it’s not unique to the United States. What I absolutely reject is the idea that racism is systemic in 2022 and widespread imbedded into the all institutions of America. Horse shit. You can make that argument and win before the civil rights movement of the 60s, but we no longer have segregation or built-in discrimination into our laws and institution. And in cases where we do have some, I’m with you and let’s root those out. All the woes and inequality of black people today isn’t because the white man is keeping them down. In addition, I am not responsible for the sins of my forefathers and you will not find me apologizing or being ashamed for my own racial & cultural identity. I can go on and on this subject but we can explore this further at another time.

On Marxism…well you pose an interesting question. Since you brought up fascism and Hitler, do you realize that Hitler viewed himself as a messiah and thought he was saving the world from evil? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. To answer your question in the shortest way I can, I perceive Marxism to be a fundamentally flawed and immoral political ideology. However, I don’t view all people who adopt Marxist political ideology as inherently evil. It has a false intoxicating appeal to to one’s good morals, but it’s authoritarian by nature either knowingly or ignorantly.

[Flap]

First, I'd like to thank you for actually engaging in a discussion with me. Some people around here seem completely incapable of that, so it's refreshing!

Unfortunately they share the same name and logo, so in things like organized protests or riots they two things tend to be convoluted & conjoined.

I genuinely wasn't aware of the org with the Marxist-millionaire-real-estate-mogul founders until conservatives started using it to attempt to discredit the movement. It's always been a grassroots decentralized movement to my knowledge. The tie between that particular org and the movement seems to be a conservative talking point more than anything.

I don’t deny that it’s an unfortunate reality in this country that the color of one’s skin has an impact on how our society interacts with said individual. Yes racism does still exist today. I can even go so far as to find some middle ground to admit that a racial majority has certain…makes me sick to even say this…shall we say inherent societal privileges vs people in a racial minority.

You just defined systemic racism.

This is a problem with humanity itself and it’s not unique to the United States. What I absolutely reject is the idea that racism is systemic in 2022 and widespread imbedded into the all institutions of America. Horse shit. You can make that argument and win before the civil rights movement of the 60s, but we no longer have segregation or built-in discrimination into our laws and institution. And in cases where we do have some, I’m with you and let’s root those out.

You're not wrong about human nature. We are tribal by nature and it's unavoidable to have in-groups and out-groups. It's the same factor that's responsible for certain forum users here that automatically group me in with Liberals, a group that we both dislike, when I'm a Leftist. Tribalism has its perks, but in the modern world I feel like it's a negative aspect of human nature that we should strive to overcome.

Systemic racism doesn't just mean laws or other rules that specifically target minorities. It CAN include them, but just because the Jim Crow laws are gone that specifically apply to one race, doesn't mean that our legal system isn't giving one race preferential treatment. Hell, in some cases conservatives have outright admitted it. See this quote from Nixon's domestic policy advisor:

“You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

That's a quote about the War on Drugs, which last time I checked, was still in full effect! And still disproportionately affects black folks! So, systemic racism.

All the woes and inequality of black people today isn’t because the white man is keeping them down. In addition, I am not responsible for the sins of my forefathers and you will not find me apologizing or being ashamed for my own racial & cultural identity. I can go on and on this subject but we can explore this further at another time.

There are definitely people who will outright hate you for being white. I'm not going to deny that, because I've seen plenty of people online that just have "I don't like white people" as part of their Twitter bio or whatever. It's awful and those people are absolutely doing harm to the civil rights movement with their racism.

However, aside from that tiny minority of racists, no one is asking you to be ashamed of what you were born as. That's a common misconception(and propaganda talking point) about CRT. CRT is about acknowledging the very things that you've admitted, basically that minorities have gotten shitty treatment not just in the United States, but all over the globe. The notion that CRT is teaching kids that white people are inherently bad is 100% false. CRT is just another word for, you guessed it, the civil rights movement! They just want minorities to be treated equally.

On Marxism…well you pose an interesting question. Since you brought up fascism and Hitler, do you realize that Hitler viewed himself as a messiah and thought he was saving the world from evil? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. To answer your question in the shortest way I can, I perceive Marxism to be a fundamentally flawed and immoral political ideology. However, I don’t view all people who adopt Marxist political ideology as inherently evil. It has a false intoxicating appeal to to one’s good morals, but it’s authoritarian by nature either knowingly or ignorantly.

I'd never heard that about the messiah part, but it's not surprising. Yes, people absolutely do awful things for what they perceive to be good reasons. I'd venture even further to say that VERY FEW wrongdoers see themselves as evil people. I really doubt very many people wake up in the morning and think "Heck yea, time to do some BAD STUFF!" It's always in the name of justice(or revenge for injustice) or ending the war or for the greater good or whathaveyou.

It sounds like you may be one of those taxation-is-theft types, which is fine. My brother is one and we get along just fine but we don't talk politics much

I'm sorry to inform you that Marxism is not by nature authoritarian. What you're thinking of is the appropriately named authoritarian socialism. The fundamental principals behind Marxism are about empowering the lower class; pure Marxism is democratic. The notion that Marxism is authoritarian typically comes from the well-known Marxist boogeymen, Lenin and Stalin, who were both authoritarian socialists.

If you're simply referring to the taxation-is-theft part and using other peoples' money to fund things, well...I'm afraid that it's a bit too late to stop that. We already do it for roads, public schools, bombing brown people, etc. Most people who identify as Marxist just want us to use that money differently. There's a lot of really simple, great changes that we could make to our society that are Marxist in nature and would benefit literally everyone except arms dealers and the very upper crust of the wealthy.

[Flap]

Me right now:

[Loim]

“Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions.” - George W Bush

If a few examples of misdeeds by BLM members is enough to discredit the entire movement... I have some bad news for you about conservatives, the NRA/Gun Rights movement, Christianity in general, the United States as a nation, the founding fathers, etc. etc. etc.

[Tgo01]

If a few examples of misdeeds by BLM members is enough to discredit the entire movement...

"A few examples"?

[Loim]

sorry I don't engage with white nationalists, we all get it, you hate black people.

[Tgo01]

sorry I don't engage with white nationalists, we all get it, you hate black people.

Didn't realize you were a McGuyver alt, my bad.