Things that made you frown today (Political Version)

[Gelston]

The only reason why employers don't pay $2 an hour is because of minimum wages, they set an absolute baseline that prevents exploitation. The supply and demand component that increases wages further to attract talent doesn't do away with a need for a minimum wage, but it reinforces its importance and success.

Is this why just about every fast food place and store pays above minimum wage here? Hell, even Walmart pays above minimum wage and offers college tuition repayment. None of that is Government mandated.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

The only job I ever had that paid minimum wage was working for the government, ironically.

[Gelston]

The only job I ever had that paid minimum wage was working for the government, ironically.

Lowest paying job I ever had was military.

[Suppressed Poet]

It never made sense to me the left’s argument for minimum wage, but it highlights their lack of knowledge in basic economics. All minimum wage does is remove options from people who need it the most. Same goes for all price fixing including things like rent caps.

Which of the following situations are worse for someone who can only find employment in a low/no skill job:

A) A voluntary transaction for labor at a low wage. (With opportunity to gain new skills and increase their value in the labor market.)

B) Unemployment.

That’s all that minimum wage does…it prices out the lowest valued jobs out of existence. Why? Because no business is going to operate at a loss. If the employee and job are not worth the imposed minimum wage, a business isn’t going to increase wages. Said job opportunity ceases to exist.

[Seran]

I disagree.

Nobody is going to work for $2 an hour. The market dictates the value of labor. Notice how that’s working like it should right now in a time where we have a shortage / high demand for low-skill labor? I’m seeing places like restaurants & QSRs with help wanted signs that state starting at $XX per hour (well above minimum wage).

Minimum wage does two bad things:

1) By setting a minimum wage you are effectively pricing jobs out of existence. Say for instance a high school kid is looking to earn extra money this summer and both the employer & employee are willing to agree on $10 an hour, but minimum wage is set to $12. In this instance the kid may not have a job, or the employer can only afford 4 workers instead of 5.

2) It directly contributes to inflation. I feel like that one is self explanatory.

Pricing jobs out of existence? By your own argument, the market dictates the value of labor, so when a nationwide employer like Walmart or Amazon prices labor at $15-18 an hour, then any other employers in the nearby city or county are going to have to match wages to get employees. Employers have absolutely /no/ problem raising prices to offset costs of products, location or employees and their unwillingness or inability to hire 5 employees instead of 4 in your example of poor management or greed.

[Methais]

It never made sense to me the left’s argument for minimum wage, but it highlights their lack of knowledge in basic economics. All minimum wage does is remove options from people who need it the most. Same goes for all price fixing including things like rent caps.

Which of the following situations are worse for someone who can only find employment in a low/no skill job:

A) A voluntary transaction for labor at a low wage. (With opportunity to gain new skills and increase their value in the labor market.)

B) Unemployment.

That’s all that minimum wage does…it prices out the lowest valued jobs out of existence. Why? Because no business is going to operate at a loss. If the employee and job are not worth the imposed minimum wage, a business isn’t going to increase wages. Said job opportunity ceases to exist.

Leftists also believe that unrealized capital gains should be taxed, so there's that.

They're a pretty stupid bunch, with some exceptions here and there. Just look at Seran for an example of how dumb they are.

[Seran]

It never made sense to me the left’s argument for minimum wage, but it highlights their lack of knowledge in basic economics. All minimum wage does is remove options from people who need it the most. Same goes for all price fixing including things like rent caps.

Which of the following situations are worse for someone who can only find employment in a low/no skill job:

A) A voluntary transaction for labor at a low wage. (With opportunity to gain new skills and increase their value in the labor market.)

B) Unemployment.

That’s all that minimum wage does…it prices out the lowest valued jobs out of existence. Why? Because no business is going to operate at a loss. If the employee and job are not worth the imposed minimum wage, a business isn’t going to increase wages. Said job opportunity ceases to exist.

You seem to be operating off of the misguided notion that businesses have fixed labor expenses and fixed revenue sources that never change. If you truly believe that business revenue streams are unchanging you're a fucking moron.

[Parkbandit]

Pricing jobs out of existence? By your own argument, the market dictates the value of labor, so when a nationwide employer like Walmart or Amazon prices labor at $15-18 an hour, then any other employers in the nearby city or county are going to have to match wages to get employees. Employers have absolutely /no/ problem raising prices to offset costs of products, location or employees and their unwillingness or inability to hire 5 employees instead of 4 in your example of poor management or greed.

Tell me you've never run a business before without telling me you've never run a business before.

[Gelston]

You seem to be operating off of the misguided notion that businesses have fixed labor expenses and fixed revenue sources that never change. If you truly believe that business revenue streams are unchanging you're a fucking moron.

No they change, but these changes hit a massive retailer, which have massive goods and logistics contracts, a lot less than a tiny mom and pop store, which are usually the ones that will pay minimum wage and would probably pay less if they could.

[Suppressed Poet]

Employers have absolutely /no/ problem raising prices to offset costs of products, location or employees and their unwillingness or inability to hire 5 employees instead of 4 in your example of poor management or greed.

Focusing on this statement and let’s ignore everything else about economics just for a moment….

If the true value of uneducated & unskilled John Doe’s labor is only $X, which is less than $Y minimum wage…Sure raising the costs of the merchant’s goods or services to keep John Doe employed is an option. And let’s go on further in fiction to pretend that all merchants take this action instead of hiring less people like John Doe. Now everything costs more for John Doe. That minimum wage increase did absolutely nothing to truly benefit him.

I recommend reading Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell. That’s just one highly accomplished & recognized modern economist, but there are many others you can pick from that are way smarter on the subject than either you or me. They all pretty much universally agree that price fixing (which is what minimum wage essentially is) does not benefit anyone. It’s something certain politicians pander to get votes from the ignorant.