Russia Investigation Heating Up

[Alfster]

ROFLMAO

First off- have you ever even worked in politics? Anyone who had would be laughing hysterically in your face right now.

But, more to the point, for your cute "what if" to be true- we'd have to believe that Vladimir Putin took great steps to separate out the Trump Tower Moscow project (and his $50m penthouse bribe) from all of his decisions around helping Trump get elected President. That would be frankly fucking astounding for anyone, but it would be particularly so for a man who regularly uses business deals to recruit assets.

On top of that, we'd have to then believe that TRUMP- scrupulous and deliberate as he is- didn't at all factor in the way he was treating Russia with the pending $300m Real Estate deal he needed Putin to sign off on in order to make it real. Of course, you'd be left having to explain why Trump lied about the real estate deal and ordered Cohen (and presumably his campaign staff and family) to lie about the deal to Congress.

And then you'd have to come up with some other explanation as to why candidate Trump- notoriously indifferent when it comes to policy- just "happened" to have picked up some REALLY strong opinions about NATO, Russian Sanctions, the Ukraine, and election meddling- all of which favored Russia at the expense of the US.

And THEN you'd have to explain why Trump decided to roll back Russian sanctions- which were levied for the election meddling- immediately after being elected- an explanation that would need to include some justification for why they tried to do it in secret. While you were at it, you'd have to explain why candidate Trump- who had been informed by the FBI and the Russian government that Putin was actively trying to help him win the election- repeatedly worked to convince people none of that was going on.

The fact that you thought it was wise or effective to substitute an empty platitude for any meaningful response to the specific situation is what indicates that you are just not very smart.

First. Trump will say anything at any time if he can see a benefit from it. Of course he's lying about the deal - it's potentially not even illegal. So he lied. Add that onto his 8000+ lies hes told in the last two years.

Trump's also been one to go against general international policy at the president level. He feels he can make a better deal if he has a personal relationship with leaders of other countries. Other president's wouldn't do that - but he thinks it makes him a genius. Simply because his policies align with those of Russia mean nothing more than he got played by Russia, but he doesn't even realize it. He's that stupid. Never underestimate the truly incompetent.

[Tgo01]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh that's darling.

Because Putin has no history of killing off people who know too much.

It's not like anyone with ties to this whole situation has mysteriously died. Oh well except this guy.. Oh and this guy. Oh and this guy, but, hey, they figure it was probably for some other reason aside from being an informant for Steele. And it's not like Fusion GPS testified in a Congressional hearing that there were any deaths related to the dossier going public. Oh wait- except they did.

It's so cute when your ignorance shows.

Well since Manafort did NOT "suicide" himself wouldn't that prove Putin isn't behind all of this and isn't pulling the strings in American government?

Or is Putin going to kill Manafort now, after his trial is over and everything?

But I'm sure you'll have some "I'm so smart and you're so stupid" to explain why you're correct in both circumstances. Maybe you can insult Androidpk again and he'll pretend it never happened and come to your rescue still.

[Tgo01]

ROFLMAO

First off- have you ever even worked in politics? Anyone who had would be laughing hysterically in your face right now.

"I'm soooooo smart and you're sooooo stupid!"

[Parkbandit]

Jesus.. that is so fucking spot on it's scary.

[time4fun]

First. Trump will say anything at any time if he can see a benefit from it. Of course he's lying about the deal - it's potentially not even illegal. So he lied. Add that onto his 8000+ lies hes told in the last two years.

Trump's also been one to go against general international policy at the president level. He feels he can make a better deal if he has a personal relationship with leaders of other countries. Other president's wouldn't do that - but he thinks it makes him a genius. Simply because his policies align with those of Russia mean nothing more than he got played by Russia, but he doesn't even realize it. He's that stupid. Never underestimate the truly incompetent.

While I appreciate the fact that you're the only person who has had the guts to attempt to explain away the incredibly damning situation, there are a few things that need to be pointed out:

1) Lying about the existence of the deal during the campaign is one thing- and yes may very well be legal. (Though HUGELY unethical, to say the least) But you definitely could argue that he lied to win the election- nothing too crazy there, right? But after he had already won, he then directed people to lie to Congress about the deal. THAT is VERY illegal and runs afoul a few laws, risking prison time, impeachment, etc. If there was nothing untoward going on, then there's really no rational reason for him to have taken the huge risks he took (not to mention the people he directed to lie *cough*Cohen*cough*). He wanted that kept a secret for a reason, and there's no other obvious motive aside from it being part of something more scandalous than lying to Congress, obstruction of justice, etc.

2) The sentiment that Trump will make a better deal if he can is great, but it's completely irrelevant to the foreign policy and candidate narrative decisions I outlined. In terms of "being played by Russia"- that argument only makes sense if candidate Trump had a relationship with Russia that involved them trying to direct his foreign policy positions. And that- of course- lands us right back into collusion territory.

And these two points you raise still don't do anything to explain away the rest of the equation:

1) Why was Trump actively covering for Putin's election meddling when he knew- from the Russian government itself- that the meddling was going on?
2) How did Trump just magically end up arriving at the exact foreign policy positions Putin wanted when there was zero benefit to the United States AND when those positions were actually incredibly risky, politically? US Presidential candidates don't attack NATO. EVERYONE in the Western world wants Ukraine suitably armed so Russia doesn't invade the rest of it. There was obvious disincentive for Trump to take these positions, and, yet, he took them. And what possible incentive was there to roll back sanctions levied for election meddling? There was NO deal- Russia didn't give up a single thing. (At least, not to the United States government) And if he was doing it because he strongly believed it was the "right" thing to do (which, by itself should send chills down anyone's spine)- why did he rush to do it in secret? That's not really his style, is it?

And, of course, it doesn't explain why Trump lied repeatedly about his contacts with Russia (and those of his campaign), nor does it explain why the top levels of his campaign were so eager to accept help from our greatest geopolitical ally during the campaign (PS they had been warned by the FBI that Russia would try do to just that, and they had been instructed to contact the FBI immediately- which, of course, they didn't). Nor does it explain why he and his campaign lied about that as well.

Again, I appreciate your attempt. But your "Oh he's just being that rascally Trump" explanation isn't an explanation at all.

[Alfster]

1) I haven't seen any proof that he straight up directed people to lie. Even Cohen mentioned he doesn't tell you to lie, he strongly suggests things. I'm not a lawyer - so I don't know how that would hold up in court, but it's not a slam dunk by any means.

2) He seems to rely on Russia to get information on North Korea. It's plausible that he was willing to make a deal with Russia in order to position himself to deal with North Korea. His ego would push him to do anything to do ehat Obama couldnt. Of course he didn't actually do anything other than stop war games...with nothing in return.

Trump lied about the tower deal because he knew how bad it would look politically. He doesn't understand the concept of oversight, and I believe he genuinely assumed no one would find that letter.

I find him to be utterly stupid and struggle to find any reason Republicans are willing to toss away their long term values for it. I mean, at this point they have their conservative court, yet - it appears to be all about "winning". The damage is done to our Allies, he's not even hiding the pay to play politics, he continually profits by vacationing at his resorts, and I'm sure plenty more that isn't straight up obvious.

The problem is none of that is russian related, which is why having oversight is such a good thing right now.

[Neveragain]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh that's darling.

Because Putin has no history of killing off people who know too much.

It's not like anyone with ties to this whole situation has mysteriously died. Oh well except this guy.. Oh and this guy. Oh and this guy, but, hey, they figure it was probably for some other reason aside from being an informant for Steele. And it's not like Fusion GPS testified in a Congressional hearing that there were any deaths related to the dossier going public. Oh wait- except they did.

It's so cute when your ignorance shows.

[Roiken]

i have no comment other than i'm glad we're done with oh honey... and have moved on to darling it's like the relationship has grown.

[Stumplicker]

i have no comment other than i'm glad we're done with oh honey... and have moved on to darling it's like the relationship has grown.

It's new. She bestowed herself with 8th and 9th fake doctorates last night so she graduated to new terms. This time in political science and psychology! I'm wondering how many it'll take to realize that she's only around because the Eugenics movement kind of petered out when some Germans decided to go all in on it a ways back.

[Wrathbringer]

While I appreciate the fact that you're the only person who has had the guts to attempt to explain away the incredibly damning situation, there are a few things that need to be pointed out:

1) Lying about the existence of the deal during the campaign is one thing- and yes may very well be legal. (Though HUGELY unethical, to say the least) But you definitely could argue that he lied to win the election- nothing too crazy there, right? But after he had already won, he then directed people to lie to Congress about the deal. THAT is VERY illegal and runs afoul a few laws, risking prison time, impeachment, etc. If there was nothing untoward going on, then there's really no rational reason for him to have taken the huge risks he took (not to mention the people he directed to lie *cough*Cohen*cough*). He wanted that kept a secret for a reason, and there's no other obvious motive aside from it being part of something more scandalous than lying to Congress, obstruction of justice, etc.

2) The sentiment that Trump will make a better deal if he can is great, but it's completely irrelevant to the foreign policy and candidate narrative decisions I outlined. In terms of "being played by Russia"- that argument only makes sense if candidate Trump had a relationship with Russia that involved them trying to direct his foreign policy positions. And that- of course- lands us right back into collusion territory.

And these two points you raise still don't do anything to explain away the rest of the equation:

1) Why was Trump actively covering for Putin's election meddling when he knew- from the Russian government itself- that the meddling was going on?
2) How did Trump just magically end up arriving at the exact foreign policy positions Putin wanted when there was zero benefit to the United States AND when those positions were actually incredibly risky, politically? US Presidential candidates don't attack NATO. EVERYONE in the Western world wants Ukraine suitably armed so Russia doesn't invade the rest of it. There was obvious disincentive for Trump to take these positions, and, yet, he took them. And what possible incentive was there to roll back sanctions levied for election meddling? There was NO deal- Russia didn't give up a single thing. (At least, not to the United States government) And if he was doing it because he strongly believed it was the "right" thing to do (which, by itself should send chills down anyone's spine)- why did he rush to do it in secret? That's not really his style, is it?

And, of course, it doesn't explain why Trump lied repeatedly about his contacts with Russia (and those of his campaign), nor does it explain why the top levels of his campaign were so eager to accept help from our greatest geopolitical ally during the campaign (PS they had been warned by the FBI that Russia would try do to just that, and they had been instructed to contact the FBI immediately- which, of course, they didn't). Nor does it explain why he and his campaign lied about that as well.

Again, I appreciate your attempt. But your "Oh he's just being that rascally Trump" explanation isn't an explanation at all.

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