More Obamacare fuckups

[cwolff]

Trolling = stating something utterly asinine and unsubstantiated, with the implication of degrading a discussion into irrationality, which you habitually accomplish.

Atlanteax, this is how you troll:

The standards for Obamacare sure are falling fast.

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor!"
"Obamacare will lower healthcare costs!"
"The Affordable Care Act will ensure everyone has access to quality health care!"

Now it's...

"Meh, pay 400 dollars a month and accept whatever fucking insurance they shove down your throat! AND LIKE IT, DAMMIT!"

[Parkbandit]

The standards for Obamacare sure are falling fast.

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor!"
"Obamacare will lower healthcare costs!"
"The Affordable Care Act will ensure everyone has access to quality health care!"

Now it's...

"Meh, pay 400 dollars a month and accept whatever fucking insurance they shove down your throat! AND LIKE IT, DAMMIT!"

And it's only just begun...... I can't wait for the 4 month waitlists like the VA.

[Thondalar]

Oh ya, Olaf-Care kicks ass! Wish we had that here but you know...obummer wouldn't allow it.

Really? A decentralized Healthcare system where decisions are handled locally is something that appeals to you? Hell, me too. Just surprised to hear you say it.

About 27% of Denmark citizens have private health insurance...the rest are covered by either Group 1 or Group 2.

Group 1, which is what most citizens have that aren't covered privately, has very tight restrictions on what care you can receive. You have to pick 1 family doctor and can't see anyone else, and can't see a specialist about anything unless referred by that doctor. Care is subsidized, but not free...besides the much higher general tax rate, you still have quite a bit of out-of-pocket expenses, depending on what services you receive.

Group 2 has a higher rate of contribution, but you can pick any doctor you want, and see any specialist without a referral. However, you generally have more out-of-pocket expenses than group 1.

It's a much more streamlined system than Obamacare, with a lot less overhead and needless complications. I find it interesting that they can pull this off using only 9.8% of their GDP, while the US uses over 17%. I'm sure they save quite a lot of money with the decentralized nature of their system, but they're also one of the top countries in the world for using technology to simplify the process...almost all doctors use electronic medical records and electronic prescribing. Another interesting tidbit is that the average doctor in Denmark makes about $108,000/year, compared to about $160,000/year for American doctors...broken down even further, the average "specialist" in Denmark makes only 91k/year, compared to over 230k/year in the US. Expressed in a ratio to per capita GDP, we spend almost twice as much on specialist here as they do in Denmark.

Before we go screaming about evil capitalist hospitals charging exorbitant amounts just because they can...I found it interesting that only 18% of American hospitals are for-profit organizations. While this might add a bit to the overall average, I really don't think it's bringing it up that much.

[cwolff]

Really? A decentralized Healthcare system where decisions are handled locally is something that appeals to you? Hell, me too. Just surprised to hear you say it.

About 27% of Denmark citizens have private health insurance...the rest are covered by either Group 1 or Group 2.

Group 1, which is what most citizens have that aren't covered privately, has very tight restrictions on what care you can receive. You have to pick 1 family doctor and can't see anyone else, and can't see a specialist about anything unless referred by that doctor. Care is subsidized, but not free...besides the much higher general tax rate, you still have quite a bit of out-of-pocket expenses, depending on what services you receive.

Group 2 has a higher rate of contribution, but you can pick any doctor you want, and see any specialist without a referral. However, you generally have more out-of-pocket expenses than group 1.

It's a much more streamlined system than Obamacare, with a lot less overhead and needless complications. I find it interesting that they can pull this off using only 9.8% of their GDP, while the US uses over 17%. I'm sure they save quite a lot of money with the decentralized nature of their system, but they're also one of the top countries in the world for using technology to simplify the process...almost all doctors use electronic medical records and electronic prescribing. Another interesting tidbit is that the average doctor in Denmark makes about $108,000/year, compared to about $160,000/year for American doctors...broken down even further, the average "specialist" in Denmark makes only 91k/year, compared to over 230k/year in the US. Expressed in a ratio to per capita GDP, we spend almost twice as much on specialist here as they do in Denmark.

Before we go screaming about evil capitalist hospitals charging exorbitant amounts just because they can...I found it interesting that only 18% of American hospitals are for-profit organizations. While this might add a bit to the overall average, I really don't think it's bringing it up that much.

You know a lot more about Danish healthcare than I do and it was an interesting read. I thought they were just a totally socialized system.

I had a question about this: "It's a much more streamlined system than Obamacare, with a lot less overhead and needless complications."

Obamacare isn't a system at all. It's just private health insurance.

[waywardgs]

The Danes got a good thing going.

[Latrinsorm]

The couple said most companies flat out refused to accept their insurance; that isn't a case of the couple not having the insurance they wanted, that is them not having any coverage at all...at least with those specific doctors.

That's like saying none of your limbs are injured except for your broken arm. That's like complaining you can't get gas anywhere in the United States except for gas stations. That's like saying the ACA won't kill you except for Obama's death panels. School in the summertime, Terrence.

You then went on to say that other doctors on the list accepted their insurance but it wasn't exactly what they wanted, I said maybe if most of the doctors didn't flat out refuse the insurance they would have had a better chance of getting exactly what they wanted, you then countered with a story from your past that expecting 100% of doctors given to you by your insurance company to accept their insurance is impossible. At that point yes, you are trying to say that their experiences are typical; otherwise I have no idea what the point of your anecdote is.

Not having insurance universally accepted is typical, yes. That's why insurance companies tell you to call first and doctors' offices check your insurance before you receive treatment rather than after. I don't know the exact figure, and my experience is probably not even indicative of my own exact figure because of the sampling bias I described to you. We also don't know the exact figure for the couple in question for various reasons. Chief among them?

Racism.

[Tgo01]

Not having insurance universally accepted is typical, yes.

This is why Latrin's trolling is fun. Take note wannabe trolls.

[Gelston]

This is why Latrin's trolling is fun. Take note wannabe trolls.

Isn't it great when AAA is accepted in more places than Obamacare?

[Tgo01]

Isn't it great when AAA is accepted in more places than Obamacare?

We should start a list of things that are easier to get accepted than Obamacare.

[Thondalar]

Obamacare isn't a system at all. It's just private health insurance.

Well good. We can throw out the thousand-plus page bill then. We already have private health insurance.