Ferguson, Guns, and Cameras

[Latrinsorm]

Imagine that........

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/ferguson-case-officer-is-said-to-cite-struggle.htmlI'm not sure what about this you feel is new information that backs up your case, would you care to elaborate? What I saw is this:

"Once inside the S.U.V., the two began to fight, Officer Wilson told investigators, and he removed his gun from the holster on his right hip."

To me this makes the claim that Brown was reaching for the gun even less plausible. If it was his left hip and an ordinary cruiser it's physically plausible. To reach up, over, and down like that is much less so.
This goes both ways you know. He was unarmed! He just wanted his tea and skittles! It was a sandwich not a gun!The difference is that no one has disputed that fact. The Ferguson PD isn't exactly high caliber, but certainly they would have remembered to mention that.

[Androidpk]

I'm not sure what about this you feel is new information that backs up your case, would you care to elaborate? What I saw is this:

"Once inside the S.U.V., the two began to fight, Officer Wilson told investigators, and he removed his gun from the holster on his right hip."

To me this makes the claim that Brown was reaching for the gun even less plausible. If it was his left hip and an ordinary cruiser it's physically plausible. To reach up, over, and down like that is much less so.The difference is that no one has disputed that fact. The Ferguson PD isn't exactly high caliber, but certainly they would have remembered to mention that.

Shut up, clyde

[Gelston]

Hey Latrin, how much money you been spending at McDonald's to try and win a one on one meeting with LeBron?

[Androidpk]

Hey Latrin, how much money you been spending at McDonald's to try and win a one on one meeting with LeBron?

None, Lebron still has that restraining order against him.

[Latrinsorm]

None, Lebron still has that restraining order against him.Please. Like I haven't devised a brilliant stratagem? I'll just win the one with Alex Morgan, obtain the identity of the person who won with LeBron, cut off my face, sew it on that regular jack-off's, then resew it back on my own face after the meeting. Alex is totally into that stuff, I can tell from the DMs she sends other people. What were we talking about?

[Gelston]

Please. Like I haven't devised a brilliant stratagem? I'll just win the one with Alex Morgan, obtain the identity of the person who won with LeBron, cut off my face, sew it on that regular jack-off's, then resew it back on my own face after the meeting. Alex is totally into that stuff, I can tell from the DMs she sends other people. What were we talking about?

Reported to FBI.

[Tgo01]

White cop shoots black man, race baiters insist black man was peaceful teddy bear and white cop was racist asshole.

In other news, the sky is blue!

.

[Tenlaar]

What I saw is this:

"Once inside the S.U.V., the two began to fight, Officer Wilson told investigators, and he removed his gun from the holster on his right hip."

To me this makes the claim that Brown was reaching for the gun even less plausible. If it was his left hip and an ordinary cruiser it's physically plausible. To reach up, over, and down like that is much less so.

Are you a short person? I'm 6'3 and I can reach the center console in all but the largest of SUVs through the window, he was 6'4.

[Latrinsorm]

The center console is elevated. Try undoing someone's seatbelt in the driver's seat. With a sedan you can go straight across, much easier for a limb with only two points of articulation.

[Tgo01]

The center console is elevated. Try undoing someone's seatbelt in the driver's seat. With a sedan you can go straight across, much easier for a limb with only two points of articulation.

Latrin seems to be confusing "Brown was reaching for the gun" to mean "Brown successfully grabbed my gun and we were fighting for control over it."

If someone attempted to punch you in the face do we pretend that action never happened if they missed your face by a mile?

[Tenlaar]

The center console is elevated. Try undoing someone's seatbelt in the driver's seat. With a sedan you can go straight across, much easier for a limb with only two points of articulation.

If the person is not fat (which the officer isn't) undoing the seatbelt is quite possible, and the top of a holstered gun would be easier to reach than that. And, honest question - are you purposefully acting as if it is against the laws of physics for a tall person to get up on their toes or even do a little hop and lean through an SUV window?

So how tall are you, Latrin? If you are well under 6 feet it would at least make a little bit of sense for you to say such silly things.

[Latrinsorm]

Latrin seems to be confusing "Brown was reaching for the gun" to mean "Brown successfully grabbed my gun and we were fighting for control over it."

If someone attempted to punch you in the face do we pretend that action never happened if they missed your face by a mile?If someone attempted to punch me in the face, missed my face by a mile, and I shot them 6 times? I would be the bad guy.

And I'm white.

[Latrinsorm]

If the person is not fat (which the officer isn't) undoing the seatbelt is quite possible, and the top of a holstered gun would be easier to reach than that. And, honest question - are you purposefully acting as if it is against the laws of physics for a tall person to get up on their toes or even do a little hop and lean through an SUV window?Are you purposefully misinterpreting "less plausible" as "impossible"? :)

[Tgo01]

If someone attempted to punch me in the face, missed my face by a mile, and I shot them 6 times? I would be the bad guy.

And I'm white.

It's cute how you think the only thing that happened here is Brown tried to grab his gun so the cop shot him.

You also probably believe that the cop was trying to pull a 300 pound man through his car window.

[Latrinsorm]

It's cute how you think the only thing that happened here is Brown tried to grab his gun so the cop shot him.

You also probably believe that the cop was trying to pull a 300 pound man through his car window.That's not at all what I believe.

Brown never even tried to grab the gun. ⌐■_■

[Tgo01]

That's not at all what I believe.

Brown never even tried to grab the gun. ⌐■_■

What are you basing this on?

The universal surveillance Ferguson employs?

Oh...sorry...too soon? :(

[Latrinsorm]

What are you basing this on? An objective assessment of the available data.
The universal surveillance Ferguson employs?

Oh...sorry...too soon? :(Won't be long now.

[Warriorbird]

Won't be long now.

Because Palantir are the most trustworthiest people ever.

[Latrinsorm]

Because Palantir are the most trustworthiest people ever.I don't know if they're the most outright, but they're definitely in the top three trustworthiest. Why else would they name their system after secret devices a dictator used to invade and control his subjects' thoughts? Only a very trustworthiesty person would do that! QED.

[Tgo01]

An objective assessment of the available data.

So what's your theory on what happened? The whole story, not just the part where you believe the cop is lying about Brown reaching for the gun.

[Androidpk]

So what's your theory on what happened? The whole story, not just the part where you believe the cop is lying about Brown reaching for the gun.

Michael and his friend are walking home after a long day of charital work when officer what's his name suddenly stops next to them. He is choking on a donut. Michael rushes over to give aid but the officer flies into a rage when a colored person dares to touch him, an officer of the law. Officer Wilson drags Michael into his car for a summary execution but fails to kill him. Michael breaks free and starts to run away with his hands up in the air; he's yelling don't shoot! "Claiming" that his life is still in danger officer Wilson exits his vehicle and proceeds to gun down the young, unarmed boy.

The Ferguson Police, not wanting to waste this opportunity, enact operation Colored Riots And Criminal Knockouts in order to further increase their authority and to wittle down the black populace.

[Tgo01]

Michael and his friend are walking home after a long day of charital work when officer what's his name suddenly stops next to them. He is choking on a donut. Michael rushes over to give aid but the officer flies into a rage when a colored person dares to touch him, an officer of the law. Officer Wilson drags Michael into his car for a summary execution but fails to kill him. Michael breaks free and starts to run away with his hands up in the air; he's yelling don't shoot! "Claiming" that his life is still in danger officer Wilson exits his vehicle and proceeds to gun down the young, unarmed boy.

The Ferguson Police, not wanting to waste this opportunity, enact operation Colored Riots And Criminal Knockouts in order to further increase their authority and to wittle down the black populace.

Let's be real for a moment please; the cop was choking on a donut and didn't have a coffee handy to clear the obstruction? In calling shenanigans!

[Androidpk]

Ferguson police prefer to use the cupholders to hold extra tear gas grenades and ammo.

[Latrinsorm]

So what's your theory on what happened? The whole story, not just the part where you believe the cop is lying about Brown reaching for the gun.There was some sort of altercation at the vehicle. I do not believe it involved Brown reaching for a gun or the cop putting him in a choke hold. I believe it is possible that either party reached through the window in response to the discussion being held, but I believe the first outright wrong move was a threat by the police officer, causing Brown to flee. Was this threat provoked, either by physical contact or simple rudeness? As a man those provocations can be acceptable. As an armed police officer they are not. I believe the police officer in a rage or other emotional disturbance fired what he considered warning shots at Brown, which is the second outright wrong move. Brown turned to surrender, and the police officer (still disturbed) interpreted this as him turning to fight, thus he fired on and killed Brown.

I believe such ridiculous conduct on the part of a police officer because I have witnessed ridiculous conduct on the part of the police force he belongs to. Malice is not required, conscious racism is not required. This police force is incredibly poorly run. It stands to reason an individual officer of it could make an incredibly poor decision, especially in heat.

.

I was going to bold all the words that people like you intentionally misinterpreted the last time I posted this, but the misinterpretations are intentional, so what's the point?

[Tgo01]

There was some sort of altercation at the vehicle. I do not believe it involved Brown reaching for a gun or the cop putting him in a choke hold. I believe it is possible that either party reached through the window in response to the discussion being held, but I believe the first outright wrong move was a threat by the police officer

So you believe "either" party could have reached through the window but then you negate this by saying you believe the first wrong move was a threat by the police officer. Let's just make one thing clear; if Brown did indeed reach through the window for any reason at all then the first wrong was made by Brown. Unless you are seriously stating you think the cop threatened Brown so Brown first reacted by reaching through the car window before fleeing.


Was this threat provoked, either by physical contact or simple rudeness? As a man those provocations can be acceptable. As an armed police officer they are not.

No, physical contact is unacceptable especially as an armed police officer. This doesn't even make sense. You think it's perfectly acceptable for someone to make physical contact with a police officer because they are arguing?


I believe the police officer in a rage or other emotional disturbance fired what he considered warning shots at Brown

So you think this is the world's worst cop or what?


which is the second outright wrong move.

sigh...


Brown turned to surrender, and the police officer (still disturbed) interpreted this as him turning to fight, thus he fired on and killed Brown.

I don't even...

[Gelston]

There was some sort of altercation at the vehicle. I do not believe it involved Brown reaching for a gun or the cop putting him in a choke hold. I believe it is possible that either party reached through the window in response to the discussion being held, but I believe the first outright wrong move was a threat by the police officer, causing Brown to flee. Was this threat provoked, either by physical contact or simple rudeness? As a man those provocations can be acceptable. As an armed police officer they are not. I believe the police officer in a rage or other emotional disturbance fired what he considered warning shots at Brown, which is the second outright wrong move. Brown turned to surrender, and the police officer (still disturbed) interpreted this as him turning to fight, thus he fired on and killed Brown.

I believe such ridiculous conduct on the part of a police officer because I have witnessed ridiculous conduct on the part of the police force he belongs to. Malice is not required, conscious racism is not required. This police force is incredibly poorly run. It stands to reason an individual officer of it could make an incredibly poor decision, especially in heat.

.

I was going to bold all the words that people like you intentionally misinterpreted the last time I posted this, but the misinterpretations are intentional, so what's the point?

You're dumb.

[Tenlaar]

I do not believe it involved Brown reaching for a gun or the cop putting him in a choke hold.
Why?

I believe the first outright wrong move was a threat by the police officer, causing Brown to flee.
Why?

I believe the police officer in a rage or other emotional disturbance fired what he considered warning shots at Brown
Why?

I believe such ridiculous conduct on the part of a police officer because I have witnessed ridiculous conduct on the part of the police force he belongs to.
This sounds suspiciously like you are making a judgement of a person based on the actions of not-that-person. That's wrong, isn't it?

[Thondalar]

An objective assessment of the available data.

Lol.

[Thondalar]

...but I believe the first outright wrong move was a threat by the police officer,

Oh, not Brown physically assaulting a store clerk around the corner, and then walking down the middle of the road? Although assaulting Indians might not be a crime in this country, I can assure you jaywalking is.


Was this threat provoked, either by physical contact or simple rudeness? As a man those provocations can be acceptable. As an armed police officer they are not.

I'm going to guess it was something along the lines of "hey, man, get out of the road."


I believe the police officer in a rage or other emotional disturbance fired what he considered warning shots at Brown, which is the second outright wrong move.

Police don't fire "warning shots". I'm not sure what movie or TV show gave you this idea, but it's not regular procedure. I do think it's funny you're willing to believe that an officer with a spotless track record is going to suddenly hulk out one day for no reason and shoot people...but the idea that the large black man, caught on your surveillance cameras already assaulting someone, might have instigated the altercation is completely out of the question.


Brown turned to surrender, and the police officer (still disturbed) interpreted this as him turning to fight, thus he fired on and killed Brown.

You have absolutely nothing to base this on.

[Tgo01]

Oh, not Brown physically assaulting a store clerk around the corner, and then walking down the middle of the road?

Hey! It's one thing for Latrin to accuse the cop of something based on what other cops do, but how dare you accuse Brown of something based on the actions of Brown himself.

[Latrinsorm]

So you believe "either" party could have reached through the window but then you negate this by saying you believe the first wrong move was a threat by the police officer. Let's just make one thing clear; if Brown did indeed reach through the window for any reason at all then the first wrong was made by Brown. Unless you are seriously stating you think the cop threatened Brown so Brown first reacted by reaching through the car window before fleeing.Did I say "first wrong move"?
No, physical contact is unacceptable especially as an armed police officer. This doesn't even make sense. You think it's perfectly acceptable for someone to make physical contact with a police officer because they are arguing?I believe they should not be threatened with lethal force, because such force is disproportionate.
So you think this is the world's worst cop or what?

sigh...

I don't even...I think this is a human, and sometimes humans make bad decisions especially in a heated slutbeast moment.

[Latrinsorm]

Why?Because both acts are implausible, both from physio- and psycho- logical standpoints.
Why?Because Brown fled.
Why?Because shots were fired while Brown was turned away and none hit.
This sounds suspiciously like you are making a judgement of a person based on the actions of not-that-person. That's wrong, isn't it?The police department in Ferguson is a joke, as demonstrated unequivocally by their behavior after the incident. Put another way:

Police officers in Ferguson behave ridiculously.
Is it therefore possible that a particular police officer in Ferguson could behave ridiculously?
Yes.

If he were from an otherwise upstanding department, I would be more suspicious of my interpretation, but he's not, so I'm not.

[Latrinsorm]

Oh, not Brown physically assaulting a store clerk around the corner, and then walking down the middle of the road? Although assaulting Indians might not be a crime in this country, I can assure you jaywalking is.You could interpret "first" to mean "first in their entire lives", I suppose, but it seems like the context clues would rule that interpretation out. I am glad to clarify for you, though: "first" means "first in this confrontation". The officer has claimed he was unaware of any previous criminal behavior on Brown's part, and I find that claim of his credible.
Police don't fire "warning shots". I'm not sure what movie or TV show gave you this idea, but it's not regular procedure.After all the heat you gave me about my totally sweet inflation regression, you're seriously going to come at me with "regular procedure"???
I do think it's funny you're willing to believe that an officer with a spotless track record is going to suddenly hulk out one day for no reason and shoot people...but the idea that the large black man, caught on your surveillance cameras already assaulting someone, might have instigated the altercation is completely out of the question.The large black unarmed fleeing man could not possibly have presented a lethal threat to the officer or anyone else, therefore lethal force was unjustified.
You have absolutely nothing to base this on.Everyone agrees Brown ran from the vehicle before turning. I find the explanation that he turned to surrender more plausible than the explanation that he turned to fight, given that his adversary was pointing a gun at him

[Tgo01]

Did I say "first wrong move"?

Holy heck in a hand basket. I always gave you the benefit of the doubt when people accused you of trolling but this right here proves you are trolling 99% of the time.

"I didn't say he made the first wrong move, I said he made the first outright wrong move."

You probably already had this reply prepared in your head and you were just waiting for me to comment on it.

[Latrinsorm]

Holy heck in a hand basket. I always gave you the benefit of the doubt when people accused you of trolling but this right here proves you are trolling 99% of the time.

"I didn't say he made the first wrong move, I said he made the first outright wrong move."

You probably already had this reply prepared in your head and you were just waiting for me to comment on it.You give me too much credit, Terry. Even I can't possibly anticipate all the dumb ways you'll misinterpret my posts.

I'm not going to defend what my posts don't say. If that counts as trolling, so be it.

[Parkbandit]

I always gave you the benefit of the doubt when people accused you of trolling but this right here proves you are trolling 99% of the time.


What's it feel like to be "that" guy who is always 20 steps behind everyone else?

http://rs1img.memecdn.com/don-amp-039-t-feed-the-troll_o_2649651.jpg

[Tgo01]

You give me too much credit, Terry. Even I can't possibly anticipate all the dumb ways you'll misinterpret my posts.

I'm not going to defend what my posts don't say. If that counts as trolling, so be it.

Because there is a world of difference between someone making the first wrong move and someone making the first outright wrong move.

[Gelston]

You are all fired.

[Latrinsorm]

Because there is a world of difference between someone making the first wrong move and someone making the first outright wrong move.Not a world, but enough.

Try this from now on: only use the words that are actually in my posts when talking about my posts. Don't drop words from the middle of sentences, don't put words in. It's really more work to do it your way, I'm on your side here.

[Thondalar]

=Latrinsorm;1710630]You could interpret "first" to mean "first in their entire lives", I suppose, but it seems like the context clues would rule that interpretation out. I am glad to clarify for you, though: "first" means "first in this confrontation". The officer has claimed he was unaware of any previous criminal behavior on Brown's part, and I find that claim of his credible.

I agree that the officer in question was oblivious to Brown's previous transgressions, however, if this does somehow go to trial, it will surely be used by the defense to give visual evidence of Brown's condition at the time...I don't see it being so prejudicial that it wouldn't be allowed, unless the officer's attorney is just a total hack. As far as the initial situation involving Mr. Brown and the officer, the second part of my statement would be more apropos...even without prior knowledge of Brown's actions, the fact he was disrupting traffic is probable cause for any officer, in any town, to at the very least try to figure out what's going on. What happened from there, exactly, is anyone's guess...not that I'm in any way supporting your universal surveillance idea, but, several law enforcement entities around the country have started outfitting their officers with chest-cams...ostensibly as much for their own protection as the public's. This is certainly a case where physical, visual evidence would have helped the resolution of the situation, either way. Personally I have no problems with putting cameras on officers 24/7...they have rights that normal citizens don't, to the point of being able to deny citizens their rights at their discretion. That's a powerful thing that needs to be monitored.


After all the heat you gave me about my totally sweet inflation regression, you're seriously going to come at me with "regular procedure"???

Nice try. Totally unrelated. Fact is, cops don't fire "warning shots".


The large black unarmed fleeing man could not possibly have presented a lethal threat to the officer or anyone else, therefore lethal force was unjustified.

This is only true if you believe unsubstantiated reports that he was, in fact, fleeing. It's an indictment of your "scientific impartiality" that you're willing to come to a conclusion without having actual facts.


Everyone agrees Brown ran from the vehicle before turning.

False.


I find the explanation that he turned to surrender more plausible than the explanation that he turned to fight, given that his adversary was pointing a gun at him

Assuming your last statement, this would probably be true, and I could get down with that. Unfortunately, that's not what happened.

[Latrinsorm]

not that I'm in any way supporting your universal surveillance idea, but ... That's a powerful thing that needs to be monitored. Goooood, goooood. Soon, your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Nice try. Totally unrelated. Fact is, cops don't fire "warning shots".Not one single cop (http://missoulian.com/news/local/man-taken-into-custody-after-missoula-police-fire-warning-shot/article_c7a8bc58-2c88-11e2-8dde-001a4bcf887a.html)? Anywhere (http://www.wgal.com/Police-Officer-Fires-Warning-Shot-At-Armed-Man/10229660)? Ever (http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Police-fire-warning-shots-at-suspicious-woman-at-Western-Wall-369473)? :)
This is only true if you believe unsubstantiated reports that he was, in fact, fleeing.Everyone agrees he was at the car window. Everyone agrees he was not shot at point-blank range, but many feet away. How would you describe him getting from point A to point B if not "fleeing"?
It's an indictment of your "scientific impartiality" that you're willing to come to a conclusion without having actual facts.Not at all, you misunderstand how science works. We do not wait for every possible fact and then issue an iron-clad conclusion that is never reviewed or reconsidered. We take all the facts available, issue a conclusion, and adjust as new facts become available. One of the most important parts of the scientific training is to divorce yourself from the fear of being wrong, which is why I am so quick to admit when I am. :)

[Methais]

Too lazy to create another black vs. white thread, but why isn't she being charged with a hate crime?

http://www.conservativeinfidel.com/uncategorized/watch-black-racist-bus-driver-ordered-kids-beat-white-couple-front-son/

[Parkbandit]

Too lazy to create another black vs. white thread, but why isn't she being charged with a hate crime?

http://www.conservativeinfidel.com/uncategorized/watch-black-racist-bus-driver-ordered-kids-beat-white-couple-front-son/

"I'll see your Jihad and I'll raise you one Crusade"?

WTF!?

[Astray]

"I'll see your Jihad and I'll raise you one Crusade"?

WTF!?

http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/eternal-crusade-announce-02.jpg

[Tgo01]

Uh-oh. (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/18/justice/michael-brown-darren-wilson-account/index.html)


Forensic tests have found the blood of Michael Brown on the gun, uniform and police cruiser belonging to Officer Darren Wilson, who fatally shot the unarmed teen two months ago in Ferguson, Missouri, The New York Times reported.

The revelation, provided by unnamed government officials familiar with a federal civil rights investigation, marked the first public account of Wilson's testimony to investigators.

That it could potentially serve as exculpatory evidence -- or at the very least, used by Wilson's supporters to back the officer's account of what transpired on Canfield Drive on August 9 -- immediately drew suspicion and anger from leading activists who portended an ominous reaction from Brown supporters.

"This is clearly constructed and contrived to justify the killing of Mike Brown," Ferguson resident Pam Peters told CNN affiliate KTVI.

Angela Whitman, a Ferguson resident who was among activists meeting with U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder there in August, found the newspaper account of Wilson's testimony "so hard to believe."

She said the report addressed only the initial encounter and not the subsequent fatal shooting, when some witnesses said Brown was surrendering with his hands up. But police said Wilson shot Brown after the teen attacked him and tried to take his gun.

Missouri State Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson gets a hug from Angela Whitman as protesters march on Aug. 14.

Whitman speculated that the account was leaked to the newspaper because a St. Louis County grand jury investigating the teen's killing is now leaning toward not indicting the officer.

"If [Michael Brown] struggled with this officer, this still does not justify why this child is not alive," Whitman said. "If this young man did this, and struggled, that means he got free. And then witnesses said he turned around with his hands up. This kid should still be alive.

"There was speculation probably about a week ago, that Wilson will not be indicted, and that he is going to get off. People are more angry now. There's more anger now than when the incident happened," Whitman continued.

Whitman worried whether the revelation would provoke another round of racially charged protests akin to the violent demonstrations immediately after Brown's August 9 death in the St. Louis suburb. Wilson is white; Brown was black.

"This is not a black and white thing, this is about what's right and wrong. St. Louis is in trouble, because if this is what Darren Wilson said, and they believe him, St. Louis is going to burn," Whitman said.

"I'm so frustrated with this. It's all for political gain. It's become no longer about Mike Brown," Whitman added.

So St. Louis is going to burn unless the race baiters get their way? Stay classy you nonviolent protesters you.

I wonder how many blacks have been murdered by other blacks since Brown was killed and not a peep from the black community.

[~Rocktar~]

With the other race riots that had happened in our country, how has that gone for people? How is the rebuilding of Watts going? South Central LA? Seriously, rioting has such a great track record over the past is must be what happens now, right? Too bad what really does work, voting, citizen awareness and involvement and public participation in local government takes so much effort and doesn't get so many headlines.

[Androidpk]

>This kid should still be alive.

He was 18 which made him an adult.

[Tgo01]

>This kid should still be alive.

He was 18 which made him an adult.


He was a teddy bear therefore he was a kid.

[Wrathbringer]

With the other race riots that had happened in our country, how has that gone for people? How is the rebuilding of Watts going? South Central LA? Seriously, rioting has such a great track record over the past is must be what happens now, right? Too bad what really does work, voting, citizen awareness and involvement and public participation in local government takes so much effort and doesn't get so many headlines.

Rocktar, people in those areas are black. Lol @ you thinking they're capable of all that. Now, rioting, looting, shooting...That's where these people excel. Can't blame them for playing to their strengths, can we?

[Gelston]

We should just kill every living thing in Missouri and start over again.

[Androidpk]

He was a teddy bear therefore he was a kid.

With a pocketful of sandwhiches.

[Thondalar]

Not one single cop (http://missoulian.com/news/local/man-taken-into-custody-after-missoula-police-fire-warning-shot/article_c7a8bc58-2c88-11e2-8dde-001a4bcf887a.html)? Anywhere (http://www.wgal.com/Police-Officer-Fires-Warning-Shot-At-Armed-Man/10229660)? Ever (http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Police-fire-warning-shots-at-suspicious-woman-at-Western-Wall-369473)?

Let me rephrase. Cops don't fire warning shots at fleeing suspects in residential areas.


Everyone agrees he was at the car window. Everyone agrees he was not shot at point-blank range, but many feet away. How would you describe him getting from point A to point B if not "fleeing"?

According to the most recently released forensic evidence, Mr. Brown's blood was on the cruiser, in the cruiser, and on the gun...this would indicate extremely close range.


Not at all, you misunderstand how science works. We do not wait for every possible fact and then issue an iron-clad conclusion that is never reviewed or reconsidered.

This isn't what I said.


We take all the facts available, issue a conclusion, and adjust as new facts become available. One of the most important parts of the scientific training is to divorce yourself from the fear of being wrong, which is why I am so quick to admit when I am. :)

How long is it going to take for you to admit you're entirely wrong about this one?

[Methais]

We should just kill every living thing in Missouri and start over again.

But then there would be no GS!

[Gelston]

But then there would be no GS!

Aardwolf?

[Methais]

Barfwolf.

[Fallen]

Barfwolf.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/109/e/6/rainbow_barf_wolf_by_mcrwolfeh-d4wwz43.png

[Atlanteax]

So St. Louis is going to burn unless the race baiters get their way? Stay classy you nonviolent protesters you.

I wonder how many blacks have been murdered by other blacks since Brown was killed and not a peep from the black community.

Detroit burned, and then suffered thru endemic decay (corruption, crime, etc) brought about by its residents.

[Ker_Thwap]

Let me rephrase. Cops don't fire warning shots at fleeing suspects in residential areas.



According to the most recently released forensic evidence, Mr. Brown's blood was on the cruiser, in the cruiser, and on the gun...this would indicate extremely close range.



This isn't what I said.



How long is it going to take for you to admit you're entirely wrong about this one?

The trick is to mix in some factual/ironic/plausible statements, phrased ambiguously. The real question is, why would you ever expect him to change? He's been fucking with you for years and you're still expecting intellectual honesty from him?

[Tgo01]

Stuff. (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/22/official-michael-brown-autopsy-reportedly-reveals-teen-was-shot-at-close-range/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D550074)


The newspaper had St. Louis medical examiner Dr. Michael Graham, who is not part of the official investigation, review the autopsy report, and he determined that it “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car” including a shot that hit Brown’s right hand. Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who also reviewed the documents, concurred that the autopsy “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun" and that it did not support claims Brown was shot while running away from Wilson, or with his hands up.

I wonder if these so called experts asked Latrin's opinion on the matter?

[Methais]

Stuff. (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/22/official-michael-brown-autopsy-reportedly-reveals-teen-was-shot-at-close-range/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D550074)



I wonder if these so called experts asked Latrin's opinion on the matter?

Michael Brown, the 18-year-old black man whose fatal shooting by a white police officer in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson in August touched off weeks of racially-charged rioting, had marijuana in his system, was initially shot at close range and does not appear to have been killed while running away, according to experts who reviewed the official autopsy and toxicology report.

I'm curious why they think "had marijuana in his system" is even relevant.

Wait a minute...maybe Latrin was right all along and it caused psychosis and is what caused him to go for the cop's gun!

How will Latrin spin this to both make Brown innocent and play the pot=psychosis card?

[Androidpk]

Because it's an intoxicant.

[RichardCranium]

Michael Brown, the 18-year-old black man whose fatal shooting by a white police officer in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson in August touched off weeks of racially-charged rioting, had marijuana in his system, was initially shot at close range and does not appear to have been killed while running away, according to experts who reviewed the official autopsy and toxicology report.

I'm curious why they think "had marijuana in his system" is even relevant.

Wait a minute...maybe Latrin was right all along and it caused psychosis and is what caused him to go for the cop's gun!

How will Latrin spin this to both make Brown innocent and play the pot=psychosis card?

But the eyewitnesses.

[Latrinsorm]

Let me rephrase. Cops don't fire warning shots at fleeing suspects in residential areas.And when I find that, you'll change it to "cops don't fire warning shots at fleeing suspects on streets in residential areas", or "cops don't fire warning shots when next to their car at fleeing suspects in residential areas", etc. I proved my points. Police have procedure, police are human beings, thus sometimes police break procedure. More on the second point in a second:
According to the most recently released forensic evidence, Mr. Brown's blood was on the cruiser, in the cruiser, and on the gun...this would indicate extremely close range.Unless you think getting shot in the thumb constitutes lethal force, the most recently released forensic evidence does nothing of the kind.
How long is it going to take for you to admit you're entirely wrong about this one?Time is irrelevant. Only facts are relevant. You believe I am wrong. This does not mean I secretly believe I am wrong, it doesn't mean anything about what I believe, and let's get back to point #2. You get a lot of mileage out of the "no YOU're a hypocrite!!" thing, you just need a plan B when you come across someone who isn't.
The trick is to mix in some factual/ironic/plausible statements, phrased ambiguously. The real question is, why would you ever expect him to change? He's been fucking with you for years and you're still expecting intellectual honesty from him?It really baffles me why people use this criticism. I get that my positions themselves are correct, so you have to reach for something, but why this particular something? I make more citations than everyone else on this forum combined, I'm rigorous with my word choice. How many times has someone cited a study and I dismissed it on its face? Compared to how many times someone has done that to one of my studies?
I wonder if these so called experts asked Latrin's opinion on the matter?What specifically about my explanation do you think disagrees with their analysis?
Didn't I say "There was some sort of altercation at the vehicle."?
Didn't I say "I believe it is possible that either party reached through the window"?
Didn't I say "Brown turned ... he fired on and killed Brown."?

[Methais]

http://www.netanimations.net/blue-girls-fingers-on-mouse.gif

[Tgo01]

Didn't I say "There was some sort of altercation at the vehicle."?
Didn't I say "I believe it is possible that either party reached through the window"?
Didn't I say "Brown turned ... he fired on and killed Brown."?

Didn't you say...it was unlikely that Brown was reaching for the gun?

[Tgo01]

Meanwhile in an alternate universe:

"Today begins the trial for Michael Brown, accused of murdering officer Wilson. Months of racially charged protests have taken place every day since Brown's arrest, demanding he be released from custody immediately."

[Wrathbringer]

Meanwhile in an alternate universe:

"Today begins the trial for Michael Brown, accused of murdering officer Wilson with a sandwich. Months of racially charged protests have taken place every day since Brown's arrest, demanding he be released from custody immediately."

Let's be accurate, even if it is alternate reality.

[Ker_Thwap]

It really baffles me why people use this criticism. I get that my positions themselves are correct, so you have to reach for something, but why this particular something? I make more citations than everyone else on this forum combined, I'm rigorous with my word choice. How many times has someone cited a study and I dismissed it on its face? Compared to how many times someone has done that to one of my studies?What specifically about my explanation do you think disagrees with their analysis?


I'll give you one example, but only because it's easy for me to find.

"How would you describe him getting from point A to point B if not "fleeing"?" You phrase this as a question, but it's a false question, and it's loaded. It qualifies as intellectually dishonest because facts are left out that disagree with your hypothesis. You pull this shit all the time.

I already gave you a far more plausible scenario in which Brown was at point A, then B, then upon realizing he was fat and out of shape, ceased fleeing and returned towards point A at a charge. Instead, you stick to your pet theory when you know damned well that he did not run run from point A to point B, and then pirouette on the spot and decide to mix things up and decide to run backwards while leaning towards the officer. Have you ever run? Can you even conceive how far the physics are off in the picture you're trying to paint?

I'm not people, I'm me. I have no idea why other people use this criticism, I can only speak for myself.

Studies, no one mentioned studies, once again, you try to change the topic when you find yourself on shaky ground. You're full of shit. Even when I happen to agree with a study you post, often times I find myself cringing at your usage of that study at it relates to the real word.

I'm baffled at how you pretend not to see this about yourself.

[Astray]

I'll give this to Latrinestorm, he is amazing at being utterly stupid.

[Parkbandit]

I'll give you one example, but only because it's easy for me to find.

"How would you describe him getting from point A to point B if not "fleeing"?" You phrase this as a question, but it's a false question, and it's loaded. It qualifies as intellectually dishonest because facts are left out that disagree with your hypothesis. You pull this shit all the time.

I already gave you a far more plausible scenario in which Brown was at point A, then B, then upon realizing he was fat and out of shape, ceased fleeing and returned towards point A at a charge. Instead, you stick to your pet theory when you know damned well that he did not run run from point A to point B, and then pirouette on the spot and decide to mix things up and decide to run backwards while leaning towards the officer. Have you ever run? Can you even conceive how far the physics are off in the picture you're trying to paint?

Studies, no one mentioned studies, once again, you try to change the topic when you find yourself on shaky ground. You're full of shit. Even when I happen to agree with a study you post, often times I find myself cringing at your usage of that study at it relates to the real word.

I'm baffled at how you pretend not to see this about yourself.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc3ov8s5ug1qk8ni7.gif

[Ker_Thwap]

Bah, once again quoted before I finished editing.

[Warriorbird]

I'll give this to Latrinestorm, he is amazing at being utterly stupid.

What I see here.

http://i.qkme.me/35tojc.jpg

Latrin trolls people quite a lot but he's hardly stupid.

[Wrathbringer]

I'll give this to Latrinestorm, he is amazing at being utterly stupid.

Latrinsorm was named PC's most successful troll by our own members. He's capable of wasting your time in the most polite and informative fashion possible.

[Latrinsorm]

Didn't you say...it was unlikely that Brown was reaching for the gun?I stand by that, and I see nothing in the report that suggests otherwise. The only thing the report establishes is that Brown reached into the car. I've seen no demonstration of how they know what he was reaching for. Maybe he was reaching for the officer's arm to dislodge it from his (Brown's) shirt. Maybe he was reaching for the officer's hat. Maybe he was groping aimlessly. It's just like handball in soccer, just because the ball hits your hand doesn't make it hand ball. Sometimes the ball comes to the hand and there's nothing the hand can do about it.
You phrase this as a question, but it's a false question, and it's loaded. It qualifies as intellectually dishonest because facts are left out that disagree with your hypothesis. You pull this shit all the time.First of all, assuming you use false to mean rhetorical, I did honestly want to know what Thondalar would call it.
I already gave you a far more plausible scenario in which Brown was at point A, then B, then upon realizing he was fat and out of shape, ceased fleeing and returned towards point A at a charge. Instead, you stick to your pet theory when you know damned well that he did not run run from point A to point B, and then pirouette on the spot and decide to mix things up and decide to run backwards while leaning towards the officer. Have you ever run? Can you even conceive how far the physics are off in the picture you're trying to paint?The physics are off far enough that I'm not sure what you're even describing. If you're trying to say that I said he was running backwards at the police officer, I didn't say that. Let me guess, your misreading counts as me trying to trick you, right? :) Anyway, I hope you see the humor in your disagreeing with my saying he went "from point A to point B" by saying "Brown was at point A, then B".
Studies, no one mentioned studies, once again, you try to change the topic when you find yourself on shaky ground. You're full of shit. Even when I happen to agree with a study you post, often times I find myself cringing at your usage of that study at it relates to the real word.You're the one who brought up my posting career in general. You opened the door, counselor, you have only yourself to blame when ironclad evidence of my innocence is revealed.
I'll give this to Latrinestorm, he is amazing at being utterly stupid.Well that's, like, your opinion, man.

[Astray]

Well that's, like, your opinion, man.

It's a shared opinion!

[Ker_Thwap]

No, I meant false. Why would you ask a rhetorical question that isn't pertinent to what you believe happened? It's silly. Of course you didn't say that, because you phrase things in a weasely manner, so that you can never be wrong. Technically correct, the best kind of correct. As everybody knows.

Explain the physics of downward wounds to the front of the body that can occur while fleeing?

[Tgo01]

I stand by that, and I see nothing in the report that suggests otherwise. The only thing the report establishes is that Brown reached into the car. I've seen no demonstration of how they know what he was reaching for.


Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who also reviewed the documents, concurred that the autopsy “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun"

You lost, Latrin. Apologize like a man and move on.

[Ker_Thwap]

You lost, Latrin. Apologize like a man and move on.

San Francisco, a hotbed of blatant conservative racial pogroms, clearly a paid shill for the authoritarian patriachy! The poor teddy bear was reaching into the cruiser because the officer said he had cookies. Then shot him in the hand as he laughed riotously!

Bah, I suck at quoting.

[Latrinsorm]

It's a shared opinion!Well that's, like, your opinion, *men.
No, I meant false. Why would you ask a rhetorical question that isn't pertinent to what you believe happened? It's silly. Of course you didn't say that, because you phrase things in a weasely manner, so that you can never be wrong. Technically correct, the best kind of correct. As everybody knows.

Explain the physics of downward wounds to the front of the body that can occur while fleeing?I didn't say he was shot while fleeing. I said he fled, then turned, then was shot. This is the part where you say "there are plenty of better examples of you doing this, but I can't be bothered to find any." I'll just add it to the collection with Thondalar's "correlation is not causation", WB's "philosophy major", and Dandy Andy's "troll" as unfounded accusations against me made acceptable by repetition.
You lost, Latrin. Apologize like a man and move on.It's entirely true that she said he was reaching for the gun. One of the other experts says he wasn't shot at point blank range at all. One of the other experts says he was shot point blank, but doesn't take a position on whether he was reaching for the gun. I look at that and see 1 for, 1 neutral, 1 against. You look at that and see 1 for Latrinsorm was wrong hahahaha. Who's to say which of us is right? I nominate myself. The nomination passes. I'm right. QED.

[Gelston]

Well that's, like, your opinion, *men.I didn't say he was shot while fleeing. I said he fled, then turned, then was shot. This is the part where you say "there are plenty of better examples of you doing this, but I can't be bothered to find any." I'll just add it to the collection with Thondalar's "correlation is not causation", WB's "philosophy major", and Dandy Andy's "troll" as unfounded accusations against me made acceptable by repetition.It's entirely true that she said he was reaching for the gun. One of the other experts says he wasn't shot at point blank range at all. One of the other experts says he was shot point blank, but doesn't take a position on whether he was reaching for the gun. I look at that and see 1 for, 1 neutral, 1 against. You look at that and see 1 for Latrinsorm was wrong hahahaha. Who's to say which of us is right? I nominate myself. The nomination passes. I'm right. QED.

Vetoed.

[Tgo01]

It's entirely true that she said he was reaching for the gun.

Thank you. Where is my apology?


One of the other experts says he wasn't shot at point blank range at all.

So from this you conclude the expert was saying Brown wasn't reaching for the gun?


One of the other experts says he was shot point blank, but doesn't take a position on whether he was reaching for the gun.

See above.


I look at that and see 1 for, 1 neutral, 1 against. You look at that and see 1 for Latrinsorm was wrong hahahaha. Who's to say which of us is right? I nominate myself. The nomination passes. I'm right. QED.

Only in Latrinsorm land does an expert not specifically taking a position on something automatically mean they are saying it didn't happen.

I can't help but notice that none of the experts said Officer Wilson was guilty as sin so I guess there is no need for a jury trial; we already have our answer.

[Latrinsorm]

Thank you. Where is my apology?

So from this you conclude the expert was saying Brown wasn't reaching for the gun?

See above.

Only in Latrinsorm land does an expert not specifically taking a position on something automatically mean they are saying it didn't happen.That isn't what I said. Maybe I should just make that my avatar, eh? Or maybe you mooks should learn how to read.

[Tgo01]

That isn't what I said.

What you said:


It's entirely true that she said he was reaching for the gun. One of the other experts says he wasn't shot at point blank range at all. One of the other experts says he was shot point blank, but doesn't take a position on whether he was reaching for the gun. I look at that and see 1 for, 1 neutral, 1 against.

Let's break that down now:


It's entirely true that she said he was reaching for the gun. (I look at that and see 1 for)


One of the other experts says he wasn't shot at point blank range at all. (1 against.)


One of the other experts says he was shot point blank, but doesn't take a position on whether he was reaching for the gun. (1 neutral)

I accept your formal non apology as an apology.

[Latrinsorm]

You're confusing two statements:
1. the expert was saying Brown wasn't reaching for the gun.
2. the expert wasn't saying Brown was reaching for the gun.
I said the latter. You accuse me of saying the former.

I wonder if you people trying and failing to twist my words around counts as trolling. I do hope you'll let me know.

[Tgo01]

2. the expert wasn't saying Brown was reaching for the gun.

Exactly. The expert in question wasn't saying Brown was reaching for the gun. The expert in question also wasn't saying Brown wasn't reaching for the gun.

So when you tally up the score in the following manner:


I look at that and see 1 for, 1 neutral, 1 against.

It really makes me question your sanity because the score is actually:

1 for saying Brown was reaching for the gun
2 for not saying anything one way or the other

Which means so far we have one expert saying Brown was reaching for the gun and zero experts contradicting said expert.

I already accepted your apology Latrin. No need to go for the gold.

[~Rocktar~]

I thought it was interesting in this article http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/evidence-supports-officer’s-account-in-ferguson-shooting/ar-BBaEMbC?ocid=mailsignout there are severqal mentions of things like:


“The family has not believed anything the police or this medical examiner has said,” Crump said.

And


Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Post’s sources said.

In the mix is also this lovely quote:


“They have their witnesses. We have seven witnesses that we know about that say the opposite.”

One can infer that the "witnesses" the family lawyer has apparently don't carry as much credibility as the ones the Grand Jury heard or perhaps the long standing fact is that witness testimony is always suspect.

Then there is this:


Jurors have also seen the St. Louis County autopsy report, including toxicology test results for Brown that show he had tetrahydrocannabinol, the active ingredient in marijuana, in his system. The Post’s sources said the levels in Brown’s body may have been high enough to trigger hallucinations.

Really, so the guy was stoned out of his mind and possibly hallucinating form pot. And hey, it's harmless and we should legalizes it everywhere.

This case is so filled with race baiting fail it is a wonder that anyone is taking it seriously at this point.

** note, emphasis added

[Methais]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4GZcwHyf2s

[Androidpk]

Hallucinating from smoking weed? That's news to me.

[Methais]

Hallucinating from smoking weed? That's news to me.

If you snort more than 3 marijuanas at a time, it's common to hallucinate.

[Atlanteax]

Did not want to start a new thread, thought this would be best fit:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/27/showbiz/celebrity-news-gossip/charles-barkley-russell-wilson-not-black-enough/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

During an interview with a Philadelphia radio station, Barkley expounded on claims that Seattle Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson wasn't liked by some of his teammates in part because he wasn't considered to be "black enough."
Barkley said he wasn't at all surprised.
"There are a lot of black people who are unintelligent, who don't have success," Barkley said. "It's best to knock a successful black person down 'cause they're intelligent, they speak well, they do well in school, and they're successful. It's crabs in a barrel. ... We're the only ethnic group that says, 'hey, if you go to jail, it gives you street cred.' "
The concept of "crabs in a barrel" isn't new, and it's universal. If you've ever seen a bucket of crabs at the market, the ones at the bottom will try to pull down the crabs that are closer to the top.
"I lived this, and if it weren't for my parents I wouldn't have pushed through it," one Twitter user said in response to Barkley's comments.
...
"Unfortunately, as I tell my white friends, we as black people, we're never going to be successful not because of you white people but because of other black people," Barkley said. "When you're black, you have to deal with so much crap in your life from other black people. It's a dirty, dark secret; I'm glad it's coming out."

[Androidpk]

Sounds very similar to what Bill Cosby said a number of years ago.

[Methais]

Charles Barkley is clearly an Uncle Tom.

And Bill Cosby.

[Atlanteax]

Charles Barkley is clearly an Uncle Tom.

And Bill Cosby.

WB considers both to be racist, of course.

[Warriorbird]

WB considers both to be racist, of course.

Nah. There's some suspicions Cosby is a rapist however.

They're allowed to talk to their community. You, not so much. I know this might be tough for you to comprehend.

[Atlanteax]

They're allowed to talk to their community. You, not so much. I know this might be tough for you to comprehend.

Oh boy, more projection.

[Warriorbird]

Oh boy, more projection.

That's real incisive when we're dealing with more of your obsession. Let's get psychological.

[Methais]

Nah. There's some suspicions Cosby is a rapist however.

They're allowed to talk to their community. You, not so much. I know this might be tough for you to comprehend.

Who's not allowed to talk to the white community?

[Warriorbird]

Who's not allowed to talk to the white community?

I tend to find the "white people are like..." humor stupid. I don't like non Southerners making fun of the South. You probably welcome both though.

[Androidpk]

As a "damn Yankee" that has spent a number of years living in different southern states I feel it is my duty to make fun of them any chance i get.

[Warriorbird]

As a "damn Yankee" that has spent a number of years living in different southern states I feel it is my duty to make fun of them any chance i get.

I find that stuff stupid too. It's living in the past nonsense.

[Androidpk]

I find that stuff stupid too. It's living in the past nonsense.

Over a period of about 6 years my ex-inlaws (Virginians) all but refused to talk to me because I'm from Boston.

[Warriorbird]

Over a period of about 6 years my ex-inlaws (Virginians) all but refused to talk to me because I'm from Boston.

That's absolutely fucking stupid. What part of the state were they from?

[Androidpk]

That's absolutely fucking stupid. What part of the state were they from?

Christians in Christiansburg.

[Warriorbird]

Christians in Christiansburg.

That's ridiculous. Pretty much a Blacksburg suburb and they're acting un-Reconstructed.

[Methais]

I tend to find the "white people are like..." humor stupid.

Much like stereotypes for a lot of other races, a lot of it is true. Which is what makes it funny.


I don't like non Southerners making fun of the South. You probably welcome both though.

I'm from MA and I live in LA. I get to make fun of southerners for being stupid and New Englanders for being stupid.

[Warriorbird]

Much like stereotypes for a lot of other races, a lot of it is true. Which is what makes it funny.



I'm from MA and I live in LA. I get to make fun of southerners for being stupid and New Englanders for being stupid.

I don't think Asian people, Hispanic people, or black people are particularly qualified to tell "white people" how to live. Your mileage may vary.

[Atlanteax]

I don't think Asian people, Hispanic people, or black people are particularly qualified to tell "white people" how to live. Your mileage may vary.

Because you believe it is the other way around? Racist.

[Parkbandit]

Over a period of about 6 years my ex-inlaws (Virginians) all but refused to talk to me because I'm from Boston.

I'm guessing that there were plenty of more actual reasons than just being from Boston.

[Warriorbird]

Because you believe it is the other way around? Racist.

That would be exactly the opposite of what I said before. Not surprising.

[Atlanteax]

That would be exactly the opposite of what I said before. Not surprising.

Yes it was, just think about it, it will come to you.

[Jarvan]

I'm guessing that there were plenty of more actual reasons than just being from Boston.

I concur.

[Methais]

UN Refuses Intervention In Michael Brown Ferguson Case

http://nationalreport.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/michael-brown-lewd-gesture-un-dismisses-case-300x234.jpg

Parents Lesley McSpadden and Michael Brown Sr of the late Michael Brown have taken their plight with the Ferguson PD all the way to the U.N.; A gesture which appears to have been in vain. Brown was killed after allegedly reaching for officer Darren Wilson’s pistol during a suspected strong-armed robbery arrest in Ferguson, MO. On Tuesday, the couple met with the United Nation’s Committee Against Torture and asked that they look into what they consider to be a grievous case of police brutality.

The Brown’s are requesting officer Wilson’s immediate arrest and calling for an end to the perceived racial profiling in America.
“We need answers and we need action. And we have to bring it to the U.N. so they can expose it to the rest of the world, what’s going on in small town Ferguson.” said the Brown’s document which can be found here.

The U.N., however, blasted back at the couple after only mere hours of deliberation. In a statement released early this morning Senior chairmen of the UN’s Committee Against Torture dismissed the couple’s plea entirely.

“The sense of entitlement these people displayed is reprehensible” said chair member, Dr. Amancio Dominguez in an interview with National Report. “We deal with legitimate and widespread instances of human rights violations, and frankly the issues presented to us here are not even a blip on our radar. It is in our opinion after reviewing all the evidence that the officer in question committed absolutely no wrong doing.”

He continued, “While I feel for loss endured by these two individuals, I believe they are blinded by grief, and this is simply not the forum which to project those feelings. My colleagues and I went over the surveillance footage, as well as other evidence documented in the case, and we believe that Michael Brown is indeed guilty of the acts of which he is being charged.”

Another member of the UN committee told CNN this morning, “We have much more important things to do than involve ourselves in county level legal proceedings. This was an absolute waste of our time. Compared to human rights violations that are prevalent in such 3rd world countries as North Korea and Brazil, America’s plight simply does not compare. While instances of police brutality certainly do exist, we have found that this was no such a case, and we will not be intervening in the matter.”

http://conservativefrontline.com/un-refuses-intervention-michael-brown-ferguson-case/

The UN is clearly just a bunch of racist pro-police brutality (but only against minorities) bigots...

[waywardgs]

UN Refuses Intervention In Michael Brown Ferguson Case

http://nationalreport.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/michael-brown-lewd-gesture-un-dismisses-case-300x234.jpg

Parents Lesley McSpadden and Michael Brown Sr of the late Michael Brown have taken their plight with the Ferguson PD all the way to the U.N.; A gesture which appears to have been in vain. Brown was killed after allegedly reaching for officer Darren Wilson’s pistol during a suspected strong-armed robbery arrest in Ferguson, MO. On Tuesday, the couple met with the United Nation’s Committee Against Torture and asked that they look into what they consider to be a grievous case of police brutality.

The Brown’s are requesting officer Wilson’s immediate arrest and calling for an end to the perceived racial profiling in America.
“We need answers and we need action. And we have to bring it to the U.N. so they can expose it to the rest of the world, what’s going on in small town Ferguson.” said the Brown’s document which can be found here.

The U.N., however, blasted back at the couple after only mere hours of deliberation. In a statement released early this morning Senior chairmen of the UN’s Committee Against Torture dismissed the couple’s plea entirely.

“The sense of entitlement these people displayed is reprehensible” said chair member, Dr. Amancio Dominguez in an interview with National Report. “We deal with legitimate and widespread instances of human rights violations, and frankly the issues presented to us here are not even a blip on our radar. It is in our opinion after reviewing all the evidence that the officer in question committed absolutely no wrong doing.”

He continued, “While I feel for loss endured by these two individuals, I believe they are blinded by grief, and this is simply not the forum which to project those feelings. My colleagues and I went over the surveillance footage, as well as other evidence documented in the case, and we believe that Michael Brown is indeed guilty of the acts of which he is being charged.”

Another member of the UN committee told CNN this morning, “We have much more important things to do than involve ourselves in county level legal proceedings. This was an absolute waste of our time. Compared to human rights violations that are prevalent in such 3rd world countries as North Korea and Brazil, America’s plight simply does not compare. While instances of police brutality certainly do exist, we have found that this was no such a case, and we will not be intervening in the matter.”

http://conservativefrontline.com/un-refuses-intervention-michael-brown-ferguson-case/

The UN is clearly just a bunch of racist pro-police brutality (but only against minorities) bigots...

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/mikebrownun.asp

It's like shooting fish in a barrel with you.

[Ker_Thwap]

So, in driving from KS to FL we had to take the flat boring southern route through OK/AR/MS because... the old people were afraid to go on Rte 270 past Ferguson.

[Androidpk]

Even if the UN didn't say that it really doesn't matter, since it is completely true.

[Androidpk]

So, in driving from KS to FL we had to take the flat boring southern route through OK/AR/MS because... the old people were afraid to go on Rte 270 past Ferguson.

Have you successfully navigated past potential ebola outbreak zones?

[waywardgs]

Even if the UN didn't say that it really doesn't matter, since it is completely true.

I love this type of response to thoroughly fabricated news stories. "It doesn't matter that it's fake, it's true in spirit!"

You guys all need a lesson in what truth is.

[Methais]

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/mikebrownun.asp

It's like shooting fish in a barrel with you.

Let me know when the UN hears their case and tells them what victims they are.

In the meantime, just keep calling me racist.

[Androidpk]

I love this type of response to thoroughly fabricated news stories. "It doesn't matter that it's fake, it's true in spirit!"

You guys all need a lesson in what truth is.

Care to enlighten us? All the facts point towards a justifiable self defense shooting. No racism, police brutality, civil rights violation here.

[waywardgs]

Let me know when the UN hears their case and tells them what victims they are.

In the meantime, just keep calling me racist.



Dude, whether you're racist is up to you. But you keep posting fake news stores as fact. Stop doing that. You look like a moron.

[Methais]

Dude, whether you're racist is up to you. But you keep posting fake news stores as fact. Stop doing that. You look like a moron.

Kind of like when you post anything at all?

Like this (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?67961-Dumb-things-liberals-say&p=1718756#post1718756)gem:


I think it was stupid and insulting. No other president has been faced with that bullshit, and you're fucking daft if you don't know why. I think he should have told you assholes to take a flying leap.

[waywardgs]

Care to enlighten us? All the facts point towards a justifiable self defense shooting. No racism, police brutality, civil rights violation here.

The story Methais is not true. Fabricated. Get it? The quotes are fake, the story is fake. Do you understand? How is this difficult?

[waywardgs]

Kind of like when you post anything at all?

Lol. Keep getting suckered by bullshit agro crap, dude. It really makes you look awesome.

[Methais]

The story Methais is not true. Fabricated. Get it? The quotes are fake, the story is fake. Do you understand? How is this difficult?

So that must mean that the cop was out hunting for some black people to shoot for no reason, right?

[Gelston]

You're all fake.

[waywardgs]

So that must mean that the cop was out hunting for some black people to shoot for no reason, right?

Nope. It means your story, that you posted as having actually happened, was fake. You got fooled yet again. It's not complicated.

[Androidpk]

The story Methais is not true. Fabricated. Get it? The quotes are fake, the story is fake. Do you understand? How is this difficult?

I'm not even talking about that story.

[Methais]

I guess you're gonna say this is fake too, aren't you?

http://republicnewsnow.com/al-sharpton-changes-direction-on-ferguson-case/ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROWqjuTM0g)

[Whirlin]

I guess you're gonna say this is fake too, aren't you?

http://republicnewsnow.com/al-sharpton-changes-direction-on-ferguson-case/ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROWqjuTM0g)
seems legit to me.

[waywardgs]

I guess you're gonna say this is fake too, aren't you?

http://republicnewsnow.com/al-sharpton-changes-direction-on-ferguson-case/ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROWqjuTM0g)

I didn't just "say" it was fake. It just was fake. As far as this goes, I'll fact check it later for you, a bit busy to watch anything. But in general:

"1+1=3"
"No it doesn't."
"Oh yeah!? Well 5+5=10!!!!"
"Good job I guess...?"

[Thondalar]

I really haven't kept up with this thread much, since by now I'm sure the race baiters are staying away from it, so I don't know if this has already been posted or not...

Michael Brown's Autopsy report (http://www.stltoday.com/online/pdf-autopsy-report-for-michael-brown/pdf_ce018d0c-5998-11e4-b700-001a4bcf6878.html)

Some things of note...

Gunshot wounds to the arms and hand occur at an upward-left angle (consistent with shooting from your hip in the driver seat of car at someone struggling with you through the window).

Gunshot wounds to the head and chest are at a backward, downward angle (consistent with someone leaning toward the source of the shots).

Particulate matter consistent with that coming from a discharged firearm imbedded in the soft tissue of the right hand.

The THC in his urine was greater than 150 nanograms/ML...dude was high as a kite. Surely this has nothing to do with it though, right Latrin?

[Thondalar]

As far as this goes, I'll fact check it later for you, a bit busy to watch anything.

I fact-checked it for you. He's never gonna give you up, and he's never gonna let you down. Those are facts.

[Tgo01]

Surely this has nothing to do with it though, right Latrin?

Latrin has already decided to ignore all accounts, from experts or otherwise, claiming that Brown was reaching for the officer's gun because according to Latrin it would be impossible to get the gun from such an angle.

Latrin for president!

[Lord Orbstar]

lol black, liberals,, government/cop haters, and uneducated people got mad for no reason. Now the "movement" is so deep into believing their own bullshit they cant admit the truth.

it was a Justified shooting. He is dead. It is a shame and a tragedy for all involved, but he was shot and killed for the right reasons. The "protesters" are already casing which stores have the Televisions and Nike Air Jordans they want to break into as soon as the decision to not prosecute is announced. For every person in that crowd that genuinely believes what they are protesting for, there are 3 others there just to do mischief and do not give a fuck about the dead kid and his family.

The pretend anger and protexts are kind of like when Matthew Shepard was so brutally gay bashed to death. Oh wait, that was a lie too. He was murdered, but not for liking the dick.

[Latrinsorm]

Latrin has already decided to ignore all accounts, from experts or otherwise, claiming that Brown was reaching for the officer's gun because according to Latrin it would be impossible to get the gun from such an angle.

Latrin for president!I took into account all three reports. :)
Surely this has nothing to do with it though, right Latrin?It doesn't change my assessment, no. Why would it? No one disputes that Brown was unarmed and fleeing, then abruptly stopped, then was dead. Unless and until those facts change, the police officer is responsible for the death.

[zzentar]

I took into account all three reports. :)It doesn't change my assessment, no. Why would it? No one disputes that Brown was unarmed and fleeing, then abruptly stopped, then was dead. Unless and until those facts change, the police officer is responsible for the death.

There are multiple conflicting reports on whether he was fleeing or was charging at him

[Latrinsorm]

There are multiple conflicting reports on whether he was fleeing or was charging at himI do not refer to the time of the shooting, but to the time immediately preceding. Everyone agrees Brown was at the window of the vehicle at time 1, if he was "charging" at the officer at time 3 then he must have been fleeing at time 2. You can't charge at someone if you are already at point blank range, and the vehicle did not move away, therefore Brown must have.

[Thondalar]

It doesn't change my assessment, no. Why would it? No one disputes that Brown was unarmed and fleeing, then abruptly stopped, then was dead. Unless and until those facts change, the police officer is responsible for the death.

So there was no fault on the part of Brown for using known psychoactive substances that obviously caused a psychotic episode that ultimately led to his getting shot and killed? If I smoke a bunch of PCP and Deebo shoots me for being naked in his chicken coop, who is at fault?



I do not refer to the time of the shooting, but to the time immediately preceding. Everyone agrees Brown was at the window of the vehicle at time 1, if he was "charging" at the officer at time 3 then he must have been fleeing at time 2. You can't charge at someone if you are already at point blank range, and the vehicle did not move away, therefore Brown must have.

If he was shot fatally while charging back at the cop he already attacked once, how does his previous (brief) moment of fleeing matter?

[Latrinsorm]

So there was no fault on the part of Brown for using known psychoactive substances that obviously caused a psychotic episode that ultimately led to his getting shot and killed? If I smoke a bunch of PCP and Deebo shoots me for being naked in his chicken coop, who is at fault?Deebo is not a police officer. Your argument is invalid.
If he was shot fatally while charging back at the cop he already attacked once, how does his previous (brief) moment of fleeing matter?Because something changed his mind from flight to fight. It can't be the drug use, because he did not smoke the marijuana while fleeing. It can't be the previous crime committed, because he did not commit it while fleeing. Something happened while fleeing, and the best explanation is that corroborated by witness testimony: that the officer began firing before Brown charged at him, and did not even invoke the "he's coming right for us!" exception.

[Lord Orbstar]

the cop IS responsible for Brown's death. Responsible does not equate to manslaughter. Justifiable homicide is what this was. Brown did run away after he got shot in the car while attacking the officer. Then he turned around, probably because he was not thinking clearly and was full of rage, drugs and stupidity, and charged at the officer. Who shot him again until he stopped coming. Which means dead in this case.

Even as the facts are illuminated, Latrin proves my point above that some people are too invested in their version of what happened and explain away the truth to fit their preconceived notion that whitey killed the black man for no reason. His parent's grief is real and horrible. The lynch mob mentality of the rabid masses is almost as horrible. All joking aside, Race baiters disgust me.

[Latrinsorm]

the cop IS responsible for Brown's death. Responsible does not equate to manslaughter. Justifiable homicide is what this was. Brown did run away after he got shot in the car while attacking the officer. Then he turned around, probably because he was not thinking clearly and was full of rage, drugs and stupidity, and charged at the officer. Who shot him again until he stopped coming. Which means dead in this case.If I may remind you of a time you experienced rage before: did you run away from the dog before chasing it around the yard with a two by four? Have you ever in your life been so angry that you ran away from someone before doubling back to attack them? That's just not how rage works. Rage is simple; straight lines and hard edges, not tactics and maneuvers.

I believe that neither you nor I have used marijuana, but from everything I have heard about it abrupt changes of mind are not involved, because abrupt anything is not involved. Depictions and testimony present being under the influence of marijuana as calming, it is only after use that psychotic symptoms present.
Even as the facts are illuminated, Latrin proves my point above that some people are too invested in their version of what happened and explain away the truth to fit their preconceived notion that whitey killed the black man for no reason.That is in no way how I have described the situation. I take no position as to whether the officer is racist, I've seen no evidence for or against. My position is that he is inept and (with no malice aforethought) mishandled the situation catastrophically, in the same way that his department mishandled the actual topic of this thread catastrophically.

[Tgo01]

Deebo is not a police officer. Your argument is invalid.Because something changed his mind from flight to fight. It can't be the drug use, because he did not smoke the marijuana while fleeing. It can't be the previous crime committed, because he did not commit it while fleeing. Something happened while fleeing, and the best explanation is that corroborated by witness testimony: that the officer began firing before Brown charged at him, and did not even invoke the "he's coming right for us!" exception.

Wait, are you suggesting that Brown stopped, put his hands up, then the officer fired at him and then Brown figured range best course of action at this point was to start charging at the officer?

Please print this post out and show it to the lawyers and judge should you ever be called for jury duty; I'm sure after readings it everyone involved will believe you're not fit to be a juror.

[Lord Orbstar]

Deebo is not a police officer. Your argument is invalid.Because something changed his mind from flight to fight. It can't be the drug use, because he did not smoke the marijuana while fleeing. It can't be the previous crime committed, because he did not commit it while fleeing. Something happened while fleeing, and the best explanation is that corroborated by witness testimony: that the officer began firing before Brown charged at him, and did not even invoke the "he's coming right for us!" exception.

your argument is fallacious. Are you saying Mr Brown realized, as he was running away:
1. the police officer again started shooting at him.
2. instead of continuing to get the fuck away, decided to turn around and charge at the officer.
3. which caused him to receive a fatal wound.

He was not shot in the back. I will admit that many cops, particularly one that has just been beaten and is amped up on adrenalin, are not going to shoot accurately. So it is remotely possible your fantasy version could be true. The more likely scenario is what we call the truth:

1. Brown ran away after the altercation/gunshots in the car
2. Brown, for unknown reasons (rage/drugs/tunnel vision) decided to finish off the cop who had just shot him and
3. charged back to the officer who
4. shot him to stop Mr. Brown's assault which
5. Killed him.


I believe the Ferguson PD handled the aftermath VERY VERY BADLY and were tone deaf to the mood of the community and some of the major rules in dealing with major mobs and riot as well as appearance/public perception. It was sickening to see the amount of pyrotechnics blasting in the mob in the aftermath. That made shit go from bad to worse. I have been in and dealt with riots and mobs and police shootings and speak from experience. Still, none of that changes the basic facts of the case: sad but justifiable homicide.

[Lord Orbstar]

Maybe he was inept in his initial approach and handling of the two men he stopped. What happened after that is what is the issue. I did not mean to put words in your mouth that the cop is racist. that is certainly the line from Al Sharpton and the "activists" who descended upon that place like flies on shit.

As for me, I was going to kill that dog and that was my intent. It is lucky it got away. It is ancient history, but that cur broke into my backyard and killed my daughters pet. It was a 2x2, not a 2x4 if I recall. <3

[Thondalar]

Deebo is not a police officer. Your argument is invalid.

Well, you've already ignored the reality that it's Brown's fault for attacking the cop, so.


Because something changed his mind from flight to fight. It can't be the drug use, because he did not smoke the marijuana while fleeing.

You do realize the effects last a lot longer than the few seconds it takes you to inhale, right?


It can't be the previous crime committed, because he did not commit it while fleeing.

I never said it did. I said the video evidence of his previous crime shows someone who is obviously a bully and in an agitated state of mind.


Something happened while fleeing, and the best explanation is that corroborated by witness testimony: that the officer began firing before Brown charged at him, and did not even invoke the "he's coming right for us!" exception.

That's not at all the best explanation. I'm sorry, but if someone is shooting at me, I'm going to keep running away from them if I'm not also armed. Turning around and charging back at them would not be something I would even consider. I still find it interesting that you're more willing to believe the "eye witness testimony (http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm)" of people who have obvious reasons to lie in Brown's favor over the scientific evidence from his autopsy.

[Parkbandit]

Wait, are you suggesting that Brown stopped, put his hands up, then the officer fired at him and then Brown figured range best course of action at this point was to start charging at the officer?

Please print this post out and show it to the lawyers and judge should you ever be called for jury duty; I'm sure after readings it everyone involved will believe you're not fit to be a juror.
http://www.wmi.org/messageboard_pictures/newboard_comments/1231082.jpg

[Methais]

You do realize the effects last a lot longer than the few seconds it takes you to inhale, right?

I'm surprised Latrin even knows that it's smoked, as opposed to injected or something.

[Latrinsorm]

Wait, are you suggesting that Brown stopped, put his hands up, then the officer fired at him and then Brown figured range best course of action at this point was to start charging at the officer?That is what I am suggesting, and I still haven't seen any better explanation.
your argument is fallacious.It could be incorrect, but I have committed no fallacies.
Well, you've already ignored the reality that it's Brown's fault for attacking the cop, so.My disagreeing with your point is not the same as my ignoring it.
You do realize the effects last a lot longer than the few seconds it takes you to inhale, right?Change begets change. Same begets same. He was under the same influence throughout the episode, so it makes no sense to point at it as the reason he changed course.
I'm sorry, but if someone is shooting at me, I'm going to keep running away from them if I'm not also armed. Turning around and charging back at them would not be something I would even consider.You are also not eighteen.
I still find it interesting that you're more willing to believe the "eye witness testimony" of people who have obvious reasons to lie in Brown's favor over the scientific evidence from his autopsy.The scientific evidence from his autopsy does not contradict anything about my depiction, because the angles are just as consistent. If I am taller than you and running towards you, you can very easily shoot upward into my arm and downward into my chest, and as I fall you can just as easily shoot downward into my head.

[Thondalar]

That is what I am suggesting, and I still haven't seen any better explanation.

Weird, I've seen a much better one that follows all the evidence available AND actually makes sense from a logical standpoint.


My disagreeing with your point is not the same as my ignoring it.

So you don't believe in cause and effect? Do you think Michael Brown would be dead right now if he simply waved to Wilson and said "sure thing, officer" and moved out of the street?


Change begets change. Same begets same. He was under the same influence throughout the episode, so it makes no sense to point at it as the reason he changed course.

This is so ridiculous I refuse to believe it's actually your belief. The fact that his brain chemistry was altered could have numerous results based on individual situations. The same, in this case, is that he was in an altered state of reality. That can have any number of results at different times with different stressors. At no point during this altercation could his actions be considered that of a normal, sane, law-abiding person.


You are also not eighteen.

I can say with great certainty my reaction in that situation would be the same, (mostly) irregardless of my age at the time. I did a lot of stupid things when I was 18 that I would not do now that I'm 34, but running directly at someone shooting at me would not be one of them.

[rolfard]

http://www.tony5m17h.net/BulletStop.gif

This is not a political statement but a crude attempt at humor, and in hindsight, I feel like I just stepped in front of a loaded gun. Pun intended.

[Latrinsorm]

So you don't believe in cause and effect? Do you think Michael Brown would be dead right now if he simply waved to Wilson and said "sure thing, officer" and moved out of the street?And if Wilson simply drove by and didn't bother with a minor traffic infraction, Brown wouldn't be dead. And if Brown's parents hadn't had him at all, he wouldn't be dead. Causation is an indefinitely extendable chain, and a mature system of ethics discerns between that kind and responsibility. In a parallel way, our legal system distinguishes between the but for causation you describe and the proximate causation that I do.
This is so ridiculous I refuse to believe it's actually your belief. The fact that his brain chemistry was altered could have numerous results based on individual situations. The same, in this case, is that he was in an altered state of reality. That can have any number of results at different times with different stressors. At no point during this altercation could his actions be considered that of a normal, sane, law-abiding person.If you can suggest something specific I'm willing to read it. Being shot at is a stressor and a half, wouldn't you say? As for being normal, sane, law-abiding... he's a teenager.
I can say with great certainty my reaction in that situation would be the same, (mostly) irregardless of my age at the time. I did a lot of stupid things when I was 18 that I would not do now that I'm 34, but running directly at someone shooting at me would not be one of them.Did it ever come up? Or more broadly, did you ever behave in an aggressive way against a perceived threat, and you recognize now that discretion would have been the better part? I can think of many times where I did so. If you'd have charged a physically superior opponent, what makes you so sure you wouldn't have charged an opponent with a superior weapon?

[Thondalar]

And if Wilson simply drove by and didn't bother with a minor traffic infraction, Brown wouldn't be dead. And if Brown's parents hadn't had him at all, he wouldn't be dead. Causation is an indefinitely extendable chain, and a mature system of ethics discerns between that kind and responsibility. In a parallel way, our legal system distinguishes between the but for causation you describe and the proximate causation that I do.

The thing is, we can trace this specific incident directly back to Brown breaking the law in the first place. A misdemeanor, certainly, but is it not the officer's job to uh...do his job? You can be silly and take it back to his great-great-grandfather's birth, but I think (hope) you understand exactly how silly that is.

Speaking of the legal system, though, let's switch gears a bit here. What do you think the possible outcomes here are, under our laws? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the race baiters won't be happy with anything short of Officer Wilson being put on death row. Unfortunately, even if everything did happen the way you want to think it did, there is nothing even remotely approaching 1st degree homicide here. There is absolutely nothing showing premeditation on the part of Officer Wilson. Assuming everything went as you say it did, there could be a possible argument for 2nd degree murder...but that's assuming a lot. The most likely outcome, assuming Officer Wilson was found culpable at all, would be voluntary manslaughter under Missouri code section 565.023...a Class B felony. Officer Wilson being a first time offender with no previous criminal record, I doubt he would even serve any jail time. Of course, this would go over like a lead balloon, but it wouldn't in any way be an unusual result in an average, similar, criminal trial.


If you can suggest something specific I'm willing to read it. Being shot at is a stressor and a half, wouldn't you say? As for being normal, sane, law-abiding... he's a teenager.

You can look at the mountains of your own studies in the marijuana thread. If you are under the affects of a mind-altering substance, that substance can/will play a role in any specific scenarios while under that influence. You can't very well argue in one thread that marijuana causes you to be mentally unstable, and then in another say it doesn't matter that a person proven to be high on marijuana did something unstable. Oh, wait, you're Latrin.


Did it ever come up? Or more broadly, did you ever behave in an aggressive way against a perceived threat, and you recognize now that discretion would have been the better part? I can think of many times where I did so. If you'd have charged a physically superior opponent, what makes you so sure you wouldn't have charged an opponent with a superior weapon?

Well no, not in this exact scenario...but I have been shot at (twice), and both times I sought cover. I think the military representation on these boards would concur...while certain combat situations may call for selfless valor, you generally want to try your best to not get shot. I've been a pacifist for a very long time, although that enlightenment came from being a very aggressive person when I was younger...I've never encountered a physically superior opponent, so that's a difficult question to answer. I can unequivocally say that I assume I would retreat from a superior armed opponent, but only to safely re-evaluate the scenario and choose a logical counterattack.

[Gelston]

If he is found guilty of voluntary manslaughter he sure as hell will be getting jail time.

A class B Felony in Missouri is a minimum of 5 years in prison.

[Thondalar]

If he is found guilty of voluntary manslaughter he sure as hell will be getting jail time.

A class B Felony in Missouri is a minimum of 5 years in prison.

Except that under Missouri code 558.011 section 2, he would actually only be required to serve 1/3 of that (potentially)...so yeah, he'd still see some jail time. Again, this is assuming the assumption of another assumption, but, under this assumption he would serve about a year and a half. You think Al Sharpton will be cool with that?


edit: section 4, sorry. This also assumes conviction...he would most likely plea to involuntary manslaughter, which, again, would not be unusual for the State to accept.


double edit: again, this is assuming he was found even remotely culpable to begin with...which most likely won't happen.

[Tenlaar]

Hey guys, I'm pretty sure we can safely remove "marijuana rage" from the list of possible factors.

[Thondalar]

Hey guys, I'm pretty sure we can safely remove "marijuana rage" from the list of possible factors.

Not according to Latrin. But that was a different thread, so...I guess whatever.

[Latrinsorm]

The thing is, we can trace this specific incident directly back to Brown breaking the law in the first place. A misdemeanor, certainly, but is it not the officer's job to uh...do his job? You can be silly and take it back to his great-great-grandfather's birth, but I think (hope) you understand exactly how silly that is.I understand how both are silly. I don't understand why you distinguish them when neither has a reasonably likely outcome of police shooting.
Speaking of the legal system, though, let's switch gears a bit here. What do you think the possible outcomes here are, under our laws? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the race baiters won't be happy with anything short of Officer Wilson being put on death row. Unfortunately, even if everything did happen the way you want to think it did, there is nothing even remotely approaching 1st degree homicide here. There is absolutely nothing showing premeditation on the part of Officer Wilson. Assuming everything went as you say it did, there could be a possible argument for 2nd degree murder...but that's assuming a lot. The most likely outcome, assuming Officer Wilson was found culpable at all, would be voluntary manslaughter under Missouri code section 565.023...a Class B felony. Officer Wilson being a first time offender with no previous criminal record, I doubt he would even serve any jail time. Of course, this would go over like a lead balloon, but it wouldn't in any way be an unusual result in an average, similar, criminal trial.I will assume your Missouri law citation is correct, and in general I think a manslaughter-type conviction is the most appropriate outcome. I think you mistake anger for expectation. I would guess the overwhelming majority of the protesters expect Officer Wilson to get off scot free, as happened in the Rodney King case. If he is actually convicted and sentenced to actual jail time, no matter how short, their expectations will thus have been exceeded.
You can look at the mountains of your own studies in the marijuana thread. If you are under the affects of a mind-altering substance, that substance can/will play a role in any specific scenarios while under that influence. You can't very well argue in one thread that marijuana causes you to be mentally unstable, and then in another say it doesn't matter that a person proven to be high on marijuana did something unstable. Oh, wait, you're Latrin.You misunderstand what my studies say, even though I explicitly (;)) explained this already when WB and Methais misunderstood them in the same way. There is no evidence that people under the influence of marijuana are psychotic. The evidence shows that people who were once under the influence and are no longer are at disproportionate risk of psychosis. Think of psychosis like cirrhosis of the liver... they even both end in -osis! :) You would not assume a drunk eighteen year old had cirrhosis of the liver, right? Same principle. It's certainly possible he had already developed either if he was particularly at risk, a particularly heavy user, or was subject to other particularly pronounced environmental factors... but to my mind it's less plausible than a police officer shooting at him. If Brown was experiencing a psychotic break, why has no one testified to it? Especially when it would greatly buttress the police's case? Someone HAS testified to the officer firing as Brown fled. Why is either testimony any more or less suspicious to you?
Well no, not in this exact scenario...but I have been shot at (twice), and both times I sought cover. I think the military representation on these boards would concur...while certain combat situations may call for selfless valor, you generally want to try your best to not get shot. I've been a pacifist for a very long time, although that enlightenment came from being a very aggressive person when I was younger...I've never encountered a physically superior opponent, so that's a difficult question to answer. I can unequivocally say that I assume I would retreat from a superior armed opponent, but only to safely re-evaluate the scenario and choose a logical counterattack.Yes yes, that's very sensible and what you would do NOW. My question was what you would do THEN, and I respectfully submit that the bolded portion answers for you.

[Warriorbird]

You misunderstand what my studies say, even though I explicitly (;)) explained this already when WB and Methais misunderstood them in the same way. There is no evidence that people under the influence of marijuana are psychotic. The evidence shows that people who were once under the influence and are no longer are at disproportionate risk of psychosis. Think of psychosis like cirrhosis of the liver... they even both end in -osis! :)

There's certainly some misunderstanding going on. I understand it is all to encourage tobacco use now though, so I'm all right with it.

[Tgo01]

They're gonna make an announcement at 10PM EST. We'll know soon enough if we need to stock up on ammo, food, and toilet paper.

[Androidpk]

They're gonna make an announcement at 10PM EST. We'll know soon enough if we need to stock up on ammo, food, and toilet paper.

Or beer, chips and wings.

[crb]

Missouri is a shall issue state, and is above average in gun owner %, guns per capita, and general gun rights.
The police allegedly shot and killed an unarmed man for walking in the street, prompting protests.
The police are currently firing tear gas and rubber bullets on unarmed peaceful protests, and threatening anyone they see filming them with arrest.

Tell me again about how armed citizens are a bulwark against tyranny. Tell me again how useless cameras are when the police are specifically targeting them rather than going door to door to confiscate guns.

Strawman Vanquished!

Latrine has proven that all the rural white missouri gun owners are not fighting against the police in the urban, black, Ferguson city.

Responsible gun owners don't go around challenging the police because a thug was shot after robbing a liquor store. I'm not saying the shooting was justified or it wasn't, I wasn't there. Responsible gun owners stand guard with their gun at their shop because upset thugs want to use an excuse to loot and riot.

[crb]

They're gonna make an announcement at 10PM EST. We'll know soon enough if we need to stock up on ammo, food, and toilet paper.

Anyone else find it irresponsible to make that announcement at 10PM? 6 AM would be better. No no... lets have all the rioting and looting start at night, that'll make it so much easier to keep the peace... darkness... darkess is a friend of law an order, people never commit crimes at night.

Fucking idiots.

[kutter]

Actually I think it is fairly smart, it is much colder, fewer people will be out, it is not as if there will not be people stirring up shit no matter when they announce it. A water cannon in freezing temps will force a lot of people to abandon the streets, do not even have to straight stream then, a little high velocity fog, everything is wet, people want to get dry and warm.

[crb]

There is no evidence that people under the influence of marijuana are psychotic. The evidence shows that people who were once under the influence and are no longer are at disproportionate risk of psychosis. Think of psychosis like cirrhosis of the liver... they even both end in -osis! :) You would not assume a drunk eighteen year old had cirrhosis of the liver, right? Same principle. It's certainly possible he had already developed either if he was particularly at risk, a particularly heavy user, or was subject to other particularly pronounced environmental factors...

Correlation != causation.

Guess what people with mental illnesses do? They engage in substance abuse at a much higher rate than society.

So, an idiot might poll 1000 people who have mental illness and 1000 people who don't and find that the people with mental illness are more likely to have smoked marijuana, more frequently, than the ones without mental illness. That same idiot might decide that one causes the other. This is not the case. They're also more likely to come from homes with older appliances. Note: older appliances also do not cause mental illness.

Source: I sleep with a psychiatrist.

[Back]

Anyone else find it irresponsible to make that announcement at 10PM? 6 AM would be better. No no... lets have all the rioting and looting start at night, that'll make it so much easier to keep the peace... darkness... darkess is a friend of law an order, people never commit crimes at night.

Fucking idiots.

When is it ever a good time for bad news?

[Methais]

When is it ever a good time for bad news?

What's the bad news?

[Jarvan]

What's the bad news?

For Back, the bad news will be that it wasn't a hate crime, or a race crime.

For the People in Ferguson, It's likely they will riot in either case. If there is not an indictment they will riot because he got off, if there is one, they will riot because they may get what they would consider "justice".

[Back]

It's going to be bad news for someone in this situation either way.

[Tgo01]

I bet they don't indicate him. That's why they are setting up a special meeting and all. If they were going to indicate him they would just go ahead and say it already to appease the rioters. This way they give the police ample time to prepare for the riots.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

If the cop is indicated, I'm going to burn down some massage parlours and spas!

[Androidpk]

Actually I think it is fairly smart, it is much colder, fewer people will be out, it is not as if there will not be people stirring up shit no matter when they announce it. A water cannon in freezing temps will force a lot of people to abandon the streets, do not even have to straight stream then, a little high velocity fog, everything is wet, people want to get dry and warm.

If wet then loot stores for blankets

[Back]

Well that was predictable.

[Tgo01]

Well that was predictable.

Wait, did they announce already?

[Androidpk]

Wait, did they announce already?

Not yet.

[Tgo01]

Wait, did they announce already?

So they did. Apparently I fail at time zones.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/24/ferguson-grand-jury-deliberations/19474907/


FERGUSON, Mo. -- A white police officer will not face charges for fatally shooting an unarmed black teenager in a case that set off violent protests and racial unrest throughout the nation, an attorney close to the case said Monday night.

A St. Louis County grand jury declined to indict officer Darren Wilson, 28, for firing six shots in an August confrontation that killed 18-year-old Michael Brown, said Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the family. The decision had been long awaited and followed rioting that resembled war-zone news footage in this predominantly black suburb of St. Louis.

"The jury was not inclined to indict on any charges,'' Crump said after being informed of the decision by authorities. Prosecutors scheduled an news conference to announce the decision.

Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon, a Democrat, called for calm after calling up National Guard troops to stand by in case of unrest. Speaking before the decision was announced, he urged that "regardless of the decision, people on all sides show tolerance, mutual respect and restraint.''

Crowds gathered around the Ferguson police headquarters in anticipation of the announcement at the courthouse in Clayton, Mo., another St. Louis suburb.

The 12-person grand jury had been considering whether probable cause existed to bring charges against Wilson, 28, the white officer who fatally shot Brown, an 18-year-old black man, after their Aug. 9 confrontation. The shooting inflamed tensions in a largely minority community that is patrolled by an overwhelmingly white police force.

Brown's lifeless and bleeding body lay for more than four hours in a Ferguson residential street after the shooting, prompting dismay and anger as a crowd gathered. Protests turned into rioting and looting the following night, and police responded with armored vehicles and tear gas, triggering a nationwide debate over police tactics.

The 12-person grand jury, including nine whites and three African Americans, had been meeting in secret for months, hearing evidence and weighing whether Wilson's should face charges that could have ranged from involuntary manslaughter to murder.

Brown's family joined thousands of protesters to demand Wilson's arrest. As anger at official inaction grew following Brown's death, protesters clashed with police, who began patrolling the streets with military-grade weapons and armored vehicles.

Wilson has been on paid leave and largely invisible since the shooting.

While the grand jury met in secret to hear evidence in the case, two starkly different versions of the events leading to the shooting emerged in media accounts.

Police have said a scuffle broke out after Wilson asked Brown and a friend to move out of the street. Wilson told investigators he shot Brown only after the teenager reached for the officer's gun. Some witnesses

said Brown had run away from Wilson, then turned and raised his hands in the air in a gesture of surrender before he was shot in the head and chest.

ETA: Dammit, just noticed that's by a lawyer "close to the case." But still, 8PM Central is actually 9 EST. What they waiting for?!

[Back]

USA Today had it from the Brown family lawyer at 9:07 pm.

[Androidpk]

Prosecutor is going over the information now.

[Androidpk]

USA Today had it from the Brown family lawyer at 9:07 pm.

Ahh. Wonder how much USA paid them.

[Tgo01]

I called it. I rock. I'm better than that one guy who predicts shit.

[Tenlaar]

I called it.

From the supposed polling results I've seen today, you and 75% of white people and 50% of non-white people.

[Jarvan]

From the supposed polling results I've seen today, you and 75% of white people and 50% of non-white people.

Well, that's only because the evidence shows it.

So.. how long till the rioting starts? I want to go get my new TV.

[Tgo01]

From the supposed polling results I've seen today, you and 75% of white people and 50% of non-white people.

Don't take this away from me, man!

[Tgo01]

I called it. I rock. I'm better than that one guy who predicts shit.



Thread: Ferguson, Guns, and Cameras

racist


Even though it's red rep, I still laughed out loud.

[Warriorbird]

Sublime - April 26, 1992

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM1a1ycLtRs

[Tgo01]

Even though it's red rep, I still laughed out loud.



Thread: Ferguson, Guns, and Cameras

racist


It's funny with green rep too. Just need some gray rep to round it all out now.

[Tgo01]

It's funny with green rep too. Just need some gray rep to round it all out now.



Thread: Ferguson, Guns, and Cameras

Graycist


Meh, I'll take it.

[Androidpk]

Wonder if Back is out protesting on the streets.

[Jarvan]

Wonder if Back is out protesting on the streets.

No, he wants other people to protest for him.

[Tgo01]

Wonder if Back is out protesting on the streets.

Yes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/migration_catalog/article5135743.ece/alternates/w620/Pg-02-life-main-2-getty.jpeg

[Parkbandit]

When is it ever a good time for bad news?

https://31.media.tumblr.com/1cbf0b25ad20dffc1aae21c16c3e9e22/tumblr_inline_n0j74qZZct1rkwv70.gif

[Androidpk]

Interrupting State of Affairs with news reports.. lame.

[Back]

They didn't interrupt Monday Night Football in my area.

[Atlanteax]

Grand Jury = no indictment

Justice!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Well that was predictable.

That a group of people after reviewing all the evidence made a decision? Yeah, probably.

[Parkbandit]

So... for all those that rushed to judgement on the first day.

Don't you feel more foolish than you normally do?

[Jarvan]

So... for all those that rushed to judgement on the first day.

Don't you feel more foolish than you normally do?

No, Because those people feel that he committed a crime anyway.

Of course these are the same people that likely think OJ was innocent.

[SHAFT]

wow, blacks are rioting and they're angry. No one saw this coming.....

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Sharpton was quick to make a statement. I'm sure Holder and Obama will be making their statements soon as well.

[Androidpk]

Sharpton was quick to make a statement. I'm sure Holder and Obama will be making their statements soon as well.

Obama did as well.

[Jarvan]

Sharpton was quick to make a statement. I'm sure Holder and Obama will be making their statements soon as well.

Obama made one awhile ago.

[Jarvan]

What was Sharpton's statement, I haven't seen it yet.

[Tgo01]

Obama...


"The fact is, in too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. Some of this is the result of the legacy of racial discrimination in this country. And this is tragic because nobody needs good policing more than poor communities with higher crime rates," Obama said, highlighting the need for criminal justice reform. "We need to recognize that this is not just an issue for Ferguson, this is an issue for America."


Obama asked police in the area "to show care and restraint in managing peaceful protests that may occur." While saying that police have a "tough job" to do, he asked that "as they do their jobs in the coming days, they need to work with the community, not against the community, to distinguish the handful of people who may use the grand jury's decision as an excuse for violence."

What a useless piece of shit. Look, asshole, they know how to do their fucking jobs. Now why don't you do yours for a change?

[Androidpk]

Obama...





What a useless piece of shit. Look, asshole, they know how to do their fucking jobs. Now why don't you do yours for a change?

What he said was spot on.

[Tgo01]

A prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich but not Darren Wilson. They need better prosecutors in St. Louis, apparently.

[Jarvan]

What he said was spot on.

Your right, and so was Obama. It is an issue for America.

We need to stop yelling racism and protesting every single time something happens BEFORE we even find out what really happened.

Call me racist, I don't care... but how often do white people riot when a black person kills a white teenager? Oh wait.. that's not important because of XYZ..

Funny.. I had to goolge shit to even heard about one...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/3/justice-dillon-taylor-after-white-utah-man-fatally/

White unarmed teen killed by NON White cop. Where is Obama on this one? And Sharpton? Where is the Media? I hadn't even heard about it.

If Brown had been an innocent unarmed black person that had done NOTHING wrong at all, I would be the first to call for the cops head, figuratively speaking. But how many times does it turn out the "innocent" person was a criminal, started a fight, or did something else to warrant the cops attention, and ultimately shooting?

Usually, the people that wan to keep race out of things, are the first to bring it up.

[Deschamps]

A prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich but not Darren Wilson. They need better prosecutors in St. Louis, apparently.
Has a cop EVER been charged in an on-duty shooting, no matter how egregious? Not even those scumbag pigs who shot that guy in the back of the head while he was handcuffed in the back of a cruiser had to face charges.

[Androidpk]

Has a cop EVER been charged in an on-duty shooting, no matter how egregious? Not even those scumbag pigs who shot that guy in the back of the head while he was handcuffed in the back of a cruiser had to face charges.

Yes, couple of months ago, the cop who shot the guy at the gas station reaching for his wallet.

[Tgo01]

Has a cop EVER been charged in an on-duty shooting, no matter how egregious? Not even those scumbag pigs who shot that guy in the back of the head while he was handcuffed in the back of a cruiser had to face charges.

Charged? Yes. Convicted? Yes, although not as common.

[SHAFT]

If the grand jury had decided to indict Wilson, the black folks would still be angry and rioting.

[Kithus]

Obama...





What a useless piece of shit. Look, asshole, they know how to do their fucking jobs. Now why don't you do yours for a change?

Last I checked, because the Republican lead House won't let him.

[Tgo01]

Last I checked, because the Republican lead House won't let him.

You done it now!

[Back]

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

[prance1520]

Last I checked, because the Republican lead House won't let him.
Didn't you see, he found a way around that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X_D32LVz_s

[Androidpk]

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

Some people just want free smokes and booze.

[Kithus]

Didn't you see, he found a way around that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X_D32LVz_s

I saw that. Of course now John Boehner says he won't be able to work with the President as a result... Oh wait he wasn't working with him to begin with.

To be clear I place just as much blame for this ridiculous, petty bickering on the Democrats as the Republicans. Both parties need to put on their big boy pants and do their fucking jobs.

[prance1520]

Both parties need to put on their big boy pants and do their fucking jobs.

+1

Anyways, back to the really sad, no win situation in Ferguson.

[Back]

Some people just want free smokes and booze.

I'd say one is less worse than the other.

[Jarvan]

I'd say one is less worse than the other.

Yes, carrots. Carrots are less worse then both of them. Stop drinking and smoking, as both will kill you, and eat some carrots.

[Androidpk]

I'd say one is less worse than the other.

http://i.imgur.com/9VIEtP0.gif

[Back]

Yes, carrots. Carrots are less worse then both of them. Stop drinking and smoking, as both will kill you, and eat some carrots.

Yes, eating carrots is a better action than wanting to watch the world burn.

[Tgo01]

Is there a big screen tv count I can watch?

[Back]

http://i.imgur.com/9VIEtP0.gif

I love that gif.

But I fear you are slipping back into extremism.

I "get" what you mean by that gif. What I would say, to try to bring you back to the Isle of Reason, is...

This is an issue that affects everyone, like it or not, I don't like it at all, but it affects us, all of us, everyone.

[Laviticas]

And the winners are, the street gangs. The grand idiots, the media and political hacks that sided with the street gangs. The leading clowns, hipsters without a cause, rubes.

[Gelston]

Police scanner for Missouri State Police is interesting.

[Jarvan]

Is there a big screen tv count I can watch?

TV, or Shoes.

You know how people love them shoes.

[Jarvan]

Got to love the people with the signs.. "Black Lives Matter".

I wonder why you don't see them out about in Chicago after any weekend.. where multiple black people are killed.

Oh wait.. they are killed by black people. Black lives don't matter then I guess.

[Gelston]

Car lot with 6-7 cars actively burning right now, woo.

Oh, they put out the laundry mat and hair supply store fires!

[Gelston]

Damn, still no fire response to the lot, no arrests, now 11 cars on fire and still spreading.

[Kerranger]

Got to love the people with the signs.. "Black Lives Matter".

I wonder why you don't see them out about in Chicago after any weekend.. where multiple black people are killed.

Oh wait.. they are killed by black people. Black lives don't matter then I guess.

If you would just read Warriorbird's shitty links about the subject, you would know that the local news covers rallies in which dozens of people(!) from the Chicago area protest black on black crime. Half of them are cops, but I mean...IT HAPPENS.

[Laviticas]

I'm chomping at the bit for the "State of emergency" hands out for tax dollars to rebuild. You know it's coming.

[~Rocktar~]

Like happened in Watts and South Central?

Go take a look on google maps and decide if there was any rebuilding.

[Laviticas]

I'll bet you 1 silver we hear the call for federal assistance within a week.

[Androidpk]

I love that gif.

But I fear you are slipping back into extremism.

I "get" what you mean by that gif. What I would say, to try to bring you back to the Isle of Reason, is...

This is an issue that affects everyone, like it or not, I don't like it at all, but it affects us, all of us, everyone.

What do I mean by it?

[Gelston]

16 people arrested across the street from Church's Chicken.

[kutter]

The thing I find so ironic about all of this, is that, I am even less likely to empathize with the protesters because of their actions, in fact I would say it creates an attitude where I just don't care about them. If they do not like the way the cops treat them then the cops should stop patrolling those areas and let them self police.

[Wrathbringer]

The thing I find so ironic about all of this, is that, I am even less likely to empathize with the protesters because of their actions, in fact I would say it creates an attitude where I just don't care about them. If they do not like the way the cops treat them then the cops should stop patrolling those areas and let them self police.

Yeah, blacks are more trouble than they're worth. If they weren't so unintelligent and feral, we would have been able to train them out of this kind of behavior over the last 200+ years. I agree. It's a lost cause.

[Kithus]

Yeah, blacks are more trouble than they're worth. If they weren't so unintelligent and feral, we would have been able to train them out of this kind of behavior over the last 200+ years. I agree. It's a lost cause.

Perhaps we can pair black families with a white person who can help direct their actions. They might benefit from some sort of master... organizer.

[Tgo01]

After reading about all of these riots it's no wonder police forces are becoming more "militarized" It's practically a war zone out there.

[stormcrow]

Are you not entertained!!!

[Vorpos]

After reading about all of these riots it's no wonder police forces are becoming more "militarized" It's practically a war zone out there.

The cops didn't use any of the military equipment. They're saving that shit for the tea party.

[Buckwheet]

They should have just moved forward with a regular trial so all the information could come out on TV across the world instead of being buried in some documents that were released. Typically nothing is released if nobody is indicted I think. So if you want to create trust and transparency you should just do it in the public eye.

There were a lot of questions the public probably wanted answers too and they aren't going to get it easily in a digestible form from those documents. Its going to take a few days for intelligent people to read through it and translate it to the 8th grade level.

[AnticorRifling]

He was already tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion though Buck.

[Buckwheet]

He was already tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion though Buck.

Well, I don't agree with that. I think we have almost the opposite of Trayvon is happening. Instead of the prosecutor going aggressively after a potential killer and over charging them, they decided to have a closed door grand jury and it back fired on them. So they released the documents which is not common practice.

If nothing else, he could have been charged with negligent discharge of a firearm. 12 shots at 10 feet or less? Only three hitting the target? That is 9 rounds just zipping through the public street with tons of bystanders. I think it would have deserved to be investigated on its own.


"Just coming straight at me like he was going to run right through me. And when he gets about that 8 to 10 feet away, I look down, I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head and that's what I shot.

I mean I get the rest of his statement making sense, punched in the face, being in a fight, reaching into the waistband, none of the shots entering from the back and all from the front. But if you are going to release his testimony anyways, it should have just been a public trial. If you are going to release all the pictures, that barely look like he took a punch, then just have a public trial.

If your medical investigators don't take pictures at the scene and say things like "they didn't have to" maybe you don't need a public trial and you just sacrifice some cameraman for "not doing their job" and "that is why we can't charge him". I really think this delayed, hidden from public view, grand jury was about the worst thing they could have done, which was exacerbated by releasing the findings at night.

[Parkbandit]

They should have just moved forward with a regular trial so all the information could come out on TV across the world instead of being buried in some documents that were released. Typically nothing is released if nobody is indicted I think. So if you want to create trust and transparency you should just do it in the public eye.

There were a lot of questions the public probably wanted answers too and they aren't going to get it easily in a digestible form from those documents. Its going to take a few days for intelligent people to read through it and translate it to the 8th grade level.

So, if I can translate.. "Fuck the white cop who was just doing his job. We need to arrest him, put him on trial because the media and full time public agitators told us he's guilty!"

[Buckwheet]

So, if I can translate.. "Fuck the white cop who was just doing his job. We need to arrest him, put him on trial because the media and full time public agitators told us he's guilty!"

Other than the racial overtones which is bullshit in your statement...isn't that what happened in the Trayvon Martin case? Once the evidence came out in court most reasonable people couldn't conclude that George out and out murdered him, but most people agreed he probably didn't do the right things. The issue was he was not properly charged and that was the mistake by the prosecution.

[Vorpos]

So, if I can translate.. "Fuck the white cop who was just doing his job. We need to arrest him, put him on trial because the media and full time public agitators told us he's guilty!"

Fuck the trial. Just lynch him in the street.

[Parkbandit]

Other than the racial overtones which is bullshit in your statement

Is it though? If Brown was a white kid.. or a Chinese kid.. or any other minority that doesn't fit the required mold... we wouldn't have ever heard about it. But because it was a white cop and a black teen.. it's all over the news.

Racial overtones is why this is a story.


...isn't that what happened in the Trayvon Martin case? Once the evidence came out in court most reasonable people couldn't conclude that George out and out murdered him, but most people agreed he probably didn't do the right things. The issue was he was not properly charged and that was the mistake by the prosecution.

Big difference: Darren Wilson was a cop, so we knew what his role in this was. George Martin wasn't.

[Tenlaar]

George Martin wasn't.

How dare you besmirch GRRM's good name.

[AnticorRifling]

From the statements I think Michael Brown was on the attack, I also think Wilson handled it poorly. Obviously this is me as an armchair analyst but there other options on that officer's belt. Guilty of murder? I don't think so. Guilty of manslaughter? Not sure if that's the right thing but a lesser charge than murder, a wrongful death maybe, something that acknowledges Brown started it, Wilson finished it but with better training/judgment it could have been finished with a different outcome.

I understand a lot of people want to make it about race, and maybe it is, again I'm not there, I don't live there so I don't get to see if it is or is not, but for me I'd like to focus on the actions, reactions, and what can be taken away to improve the chances of LEOs doing a better job.

[Some Rogue]

How dare you besmirch GRRM's good name.

To be fair, he does kill a lot of people.