I AGREE WITH HILLARY! [Archive] - Page 2 - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Mabus

03-27-2008, 09:18 AM

If Wright said absolutely nothing wrong.. I would think you would be mad at Obama for dropping him as his spiritual leader. I mean, if this guy can't back his own friends for doing nothing wrong.. what kind of man is that?
That is a damn valid point that will likely fly right over his head.

Obama joined that church simply for good, plain, old fashioned political opportunism. It has over 8,000 members, and helped him in his State Senate bid.

He even said in his book that he thought joining it would give him "street cred". Obama's own words. Not spirtual guidance, socialization, moral aid, ability to help others. No, "street cred".

What Daniel, and others like him, refuse to see is that Obama is the exact same as every other politician that has come down the pike. They all have faults, all have skeletons in their closet, all bow down to special interests and lobbyists and every one of them can lie their ass off to win.

What their ilk also fails to see is that nominating Obama is voting for McCain. The 527's will rip Obama apart in the general.

The ads will disgust so many voters by the time they get through with him that all but those that now believe in Wright's statements as gospel, those that would likely press "D" if it said "Bugs Bunny" and a number of history-apologist liberals, will not vote for Obama.

The rest will either vote McCain, vote some obscure third party or stay home.

CrystalTears

03-27-2008, 09:26 AM

Way to assume. I've never felt that Obama was a saint and/or didn't have faults or has lied, or even tap-danced to get his way. At this point I expect it from every politician, especially those who are running for office.

What I don't do, though, is assume that the actions and words of Wright are mutually exclusive to Obama. I also know Hillary's evils and don't want to go down that road. Forgive me for not wanting the Clintons in charge again.

My vote is still up in the air between McCain and Obama (should Obama take the nomination) though. I was looking forward to seeing their issues on the matter. Their issues and platform, not what their colleagues are saying or doing, I don't care.

I know where Hillary stands and she's never getting my vote.

Daniel

03-27-2008, 09:48 AM

That is a damn valid point that will likely fly right over his head.

Actually. I already addressed it.

Thank you for not addressing anything else.

Obama joined that church simply for good, plain, old fashioned political opportunism. It has over 8,000 members, and helped him in his State Senate bid.

He even said in his book that he thought joining it would give him "street cred". Obama's own words. Not spirtual guidance, socialization, moral aid, ability to help others. No, "street cred".

You know what gives him "Street cred" for me? His work in my community that no one else wanted to touch.

What Daniel, and others like him, refuse to see is that Obama is the exact same as every other politician that has come down the pike. They all have faults, all have skeletons in their closet, all bow down to special interests and lobbyists and every one of them can lie their ass off to win.

Except...he's accepted no money from lobbyist or special interests..

What their ilk also fails to see is that nominating Obama is voting for McCain. The 527's will rip Obama apart in the general.

The ads will disgust so many voters by the time they get through with him that all but those that now believe in Wright's statements as gospel, those that would likely press "D" if it said "Bugs Bunny" and a number of history-apologist liberals, will not vote for Obama.

The rest will either vote McCain, vote some obscure third party or stay home.

Right. So, you have the best interests of the democratic party in mind?

Sure.

ElanthianSiren

03-27-2008, 09:54 AM

What their ilk also fails to see is that nominating Obama is voting for McCain. The 527's will rip Obama apart in the general.

The ads will disgust so many voters by the time they get through with him that all but those that now believe in Wright's statements as gospel, those that would likely press "D" if it said "Bugs Bunny" and a number of history-apologist liberals, will not vote for Obama.

527s will try, but they don't really have much to go on. That's one area where Obama's inexperience helps him. What they can try and do then is say he's too experienced, and Obama can turn around and say that he isn't a washington insider. That's a strategy that worked for an unkown Arkansas governer back in the day, and I doubt Obama would find it beneath himself to use it.

Mabus

03-27-2008, 09:58 AM

Except...he's accepted no money from lobbyist or special interests..
Is that what he told you?

How about the Nuclear Lobby? Obama has so far accepted $159,800 from executives and employees of Exelon, the nation’s largest nuclear power plant operator.

Remember them? They are the ones he talked about in Iowa when he said he "passed legislation forcing them to immediately report any environmental spills."

Thing is, he lied about that. The legislation was never passed into law.

Oh, here is a PDF from Obama's Church. (http://tucc.org/upload/tuccbulletin_june10.pdf) Look specifically at the anti-semetic, anti-Israel "Open Letter to Oprah from Ali Baghdadi". Makes a good read for Israel haters. You will love it Daniel!

In case you want to impeach the source for it, it is from the church's own website.

Mabus

03-27-2008, 10:01 AM

527s will try, but they don't really have much to go on.
Does the term "Swift Boat" mean anything to you? The 527's took a decorated war hero and made him look like a coward. They can have unlimited cash, be able to say anything short of "vote for X", and they can lie and not be liable.

ElanthianSiren

03-27-2008, 10:06 AM

Just because someone is anti-Israel doesn't make them anti-semetic.

ElanthianSiren

03-27-2008, 10:07 AM

Does the term "Swift Boat" mean anything to you? The 527's took a decorated war hero and made him look like a coward. They can have unlimited cash, be able to say anything short of "vote for X", and they can lie and not be liable.

Kerry made an error in choosing not to respond to them; I doubt Obama will make the same error.

Stanley Burrell

03-27-2008, 10:44 AM

Isn't Obama half white? I don't get all the people crying racist on Obama. How can you be racist against yourself?

Because take away all the clothing, fame and make-up, and try and see him catch a cab in The City. And take special hypothetical notice of how his Arab brethren strangely betray him.

Daniel

03-27-2008, 11:09 AM

Is that what he told you?

How about the Nuclear Lobby? Obama has so far accepted $159,800 from executives and employees of Exelon, the nation’s largest nuclear power plant operator.

Remember them? They are the ones he talked about in Iowa when he said he "passed legislation forcing them to immediately report any environmental spills."

Thing is, he lied about that. The legislation was never passed into law.

$159,800

Is what percent of his total contributions?

Oh, here is a PDF from Obama's Church. Look specifically at the anti-semetic, anti-Israel "Open Letter to Oprah from Ali Baghdadi". Makes a good read for Israel haters. You will love it Daniel!

In case you want to impeach the source for it, it is from the church's own website.

Actually, I'd ask you why I would be upset about this letter?

What is so "Anti-semitic"? To be against Israeli policies that persecute and deprive people of their rights is not to be anti-semitic. Unless you believe Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu are Anti-Semitic.

From the Article:

"I do know that Mr. Mandela, who is probably
the most respected man on Earth today, is your
friend and hero. He is also mine. I met him in
Chicago; and I had the honor of visiting him at
his home in South Africa, years back. You are
also a friend and a great admirer of Cape Town
Archbishop Tutu, a Nobel Peace Prize dignitary,
a man who has stood against injustice and
racism almost his entire life. Both men describe
Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, the natives
of the land, as worse than apartheid. Recently,
Israel prevented Bishop Tutu from coming
to Gaza to investigate and report Israel’s war
crimes to the United Nations"

So, now Nelson Mandela is Racist and Anti Semitic?

*WoW*

Daniel

03-27-2008, 11:09 AM

Latrinsorm

03-27-2008, 11:13 AM

Certainly not the only group to face discrimination in the USA, but they did face a high amount of discrimination in this country's history.I didn't say the Irish were never discriminated against. I said, and I quote, "I don't remember a governor standing in a door saying "no Irish" or declaring that allowing Irish into a state university was tantamount to genocide. Maybe you can refresh my memory." If this never occurred, it encourages one to think that the Irish did not experience anywhere near the systematic discrimination black people did. It's one deplorable thing when a bunch of hicks grabs someone who's different from them and kills him, it's quite another when it's the Governor shouting on the radio about the "nigra race".

Parkbandit

03-27-2008, 11:17 AM

$159,800

Is what percent of his total contributions?

Wait.... what happened to your claim of:

Except...he's accepted no money from lobbyist or special interests..

:rofl:

Daniel

03-27-2008, 11:22 AM

Wait.... what happened to your claim of:

:rofl:

Nothing.

Parkbandit

03-27-2008, 11:30 AM

Nothing.

Exactly.

And just another example of why I question every post of yours. If it doesn't fit your argument.. just make it up.

Speaking of which.. you still looking for that post of mine where you were 100% positive I posted that racism is "non existent"?

:rofl:

Clove

03-27-2008, 11:51 AM

So, now Nelson Mandela is Racist and Anti Semitic?

*WoW*

Heh, naw but he was a commie terrorist... but hey he ended up turning over a new leaf and doing great things in South Africa.

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 12:08 PM

So, now Nelson Mandela is Racist and Anti Semitic?

*WoW*

So now it's not racist to sing a song about killing white people?

*WoW*

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/nelson-mandela-sings-about-killing-whites/2559888685

Bhulu is a word used to refer to the boers (Afrikaan word for white farmers)

Parkbandit

03-27-2008, 12:23 PM

So now it's not racist to sing a song about killing white people?

What part of "It's only racism when it happens to someone who is black" are you still having trouble understanding.

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 12:42 PM

What part of "It's only racism when it happens to someone who is black" are you still having trouble understanding.

I keep forgetting that. Now all we need for a true display of racial harmony is Obama, Wright, Mandela and Mugabe singing a quartet.

Daniel

03-27-2008, 12:43 PM

Exactly.

And just another example of why I question every post of yours. If it doesn't fit your argument.. just make it up.

Speaking of which.. you still looking for that post of mine where you were 100% positive I posted that racism is "non existent"?

:rofl:

I'm glad you question my posts. It shows I'm not being retarded.

I could explain how taking a couple hundred grand out of dozens of millions is comparable to nothing, especially when it's spread out over dozens of individual people. Especially compared to the other candidates, but I mean I doubt you care.

Afterall, Nelson Mandela is a racist, Anti-semitic and a bastion of hate.

Seriously, you guys need to get a grip.

Clove

03-27-2008, 12:55 PM

So now it's not racist to sing a song about killing white people?

*WoW*

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/nelson-mandela-sings-about-killing-whites/2559888685

Bhulu is a word used to refer to the boers (Afrikaan word for white farmers)

Yes but it's not a word for white people as a collective. The Kozas, Zulus and Afrikaaners were kinda in a "dispute".

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 01:00 PM

Yes but it's not a word for white people as a collective. The Kozas, Zulus and Afrikaaners were kinda in a "dispute".

Oh! That makes it ok then.

Parkbandit

03-27-2008, 01:11 PM

I'm glad you question my posts. It shows I'm not being retarded.

That in itself makes no sense... which could lead many to think you are in fact, retarded. The reason I question your posts.. is because you have a habit of just making shit up to help your argument.

I could explain how taking a couple hundred grand out of dozens of millions is comparable to nothing, especially when it's spread out over dozens of individual people. Especially compared to the other candidates, but I mean I doubt you care.

It's far from nothing, as you tried to imply. And that was just ONE source. And how did I know someone like you would use the ol' "But look at the other candidates!" as an excuse. We're not talking about the other candidates.. we're talking about Obama and how you said he was taking zero money from special interests.

You are a fucking joke.

Clove

03-27-2008, 01:22 PM

Oh! That makes it ok then.

It makes it a conflict between people. We directed as bad or worse to our Asian Japanese enemies during World War II and yet that didn't make us racist against Asians, or if it did it made us bad ones since the Chinese and Russians were our allies.

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 01:25 PM

It makes it a conflict between people. We directed as bad or worse to our Asian Japanese enemies during World War II and yet that didn't make us racist against Asians, or if it did it made us bad ones since the Chinese and Russians were our allies.

So if I got on the news tomorrow and sang a song about killing Muslims, since we have a "dispute" with Muslims, what would you call me?

Daniel

03-27-2008, 01:32 PM

That in itself makes no sense... which could lead many to think you are in fact, retarded. The reason I question your posts.. is because you have a habit of just making shit up to help your argument.

It's far from nothing, as you tried to imply. And that was just ONE source. And how did I know someone like you would use the ol' "But look at the other candidates!" as an excuse. We're not talking about the other candidates.. we're talking about Obama and how you said he was taking zero money from special interests.

You are a fucking joke.

I'm sorry. I'll be sure to run all my posts by my lawyer before I make them.

The point remains that Obama is not beholden to special interests like the rest of the candidates. If you want to refute that; fine. However, please keep nitpicking at the letters and not the spirit of what is being said. It makes you look so much smarter.

Daniel

03-27-2008, 01:34 PM

I think all rational discussion stops at the point where someone dismisses the efforts of South Africans to throw off Apartheid as racist, hateful and worth condemnation.

If Obama associates with people as heinous and nefarious as Nelson Mandela, then the man has my vote.

Clove

03-27-2008, 01:40 PM

So if I got on the news tomorrow and sang a song about killing Muslims, since we have a "dispute" with Muslims, what would you call me?

I would call you stupid, or ignorant (take your pick). We aren't in a dispute with Muslims. We're in a dispute with terrorists (some of whom "believe" in Islam) and we were formerly in a war with a Muslim nation (Iraq).

Parkbandit

03-27-2008, 01:41 PM

I'm sorry. I'll be sure to run all my posts by my lawyer before I make them.

The point remains that Obama is not beholden to special interests like the rest of the candidates. If you want to refute that; fine. However, please keep nitpicking at the letters and not the spirit of what is being said. It makes you look so much smarter.

:rofl:

It's only in the spirit of what is being said.. because you were called out on it and can't back your statement up.

Obama is as beholden as any other politician. He's not the angel you are trying to portray him as. And this is only the beginning. Hillary still has an April surprise coming up I bet.

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 01:42 PM

I would call you stupid. We aren't in a dispute with Muslims. We're in a dispute with terrorists (some of whom are "believe" in Islam) and we were formerly in a war with a Muslim nation (Iraq).

But I wasn't talking about Muslims as a collective, I was just referring to those we're in a "dispute" with.

Daniel

03-27-2008, 01:44 PM

:rofl:

It's only in the spirit of what is being said.. because you were called out on it and can't back your statement up.

Obama is as beholden as any other politician. He's not the angel you are trying to portray him as. And this is only the beginning. Hillary still has an April surprise coming up I bet.

Oh really? So, you know that 97% of his contributions came in denominations of $200 or less. Compared to like 17% for other candidates right?

I'd ask you to back your ascertations, but then I know that's impossible. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Clove

03-27-2008, 01:44 PM

But I wasn't talking about Muslims as a collective, I was just referring to those we're in a "dispute" with.

Then you should have referred to them specifically such as terrorists or Iraqis. Just as the South Africans did when they used the specific slur they refer to Afrikaaners by (and not all white people necessarily).

By the way... Tsa'ah? Is that YOU?!

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 01:49 PM

Then you should have referred to them specifically such as terrorists or Iraqis. Just as the South Africans did when they used the specific slur they refer to Afrikaaners by (and not all white people necessarily).

By the way... Tsa'ah? Is that YOU?!

How do you know they weren't referring to all white people necessarily? You just thought I was talking about all Muslims.

Clove

03-27-2008, 01:50 PM

How do you know they weren't referring to all white people necessarily? You just thought I was talking about all Muslims.

Because they didn't say "Kill white people" they said "Kill those bastard white Afrikaaner farmers"

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 01:54 PM

Because they didn't say "Kill white people" they said "Kill those bastard white Afrikaaner farmers"

They did? I suppose you speak Xhosa now too right?

Clove

03-27-2008, 01:55 PM

They did? I suppose you speak Xhosa now too right?

Do you? Can you confirm that they said kill all white people?

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 01:57 PM

Do you? Can you confirm that they said kill all white people?

No I don't. So prove me wrong.

Daniel

03-27-2008, 01:59 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism

I think this applies on several fronts in this thread:

While a Professor of Sociology at Eastern Michigan University in 1987, Truzzi gave the following description of pseudoskeptics:

In science, the burden of proof falls upon the claimant; and the more extraordinary a claim, the heavier is the burden of proof demanded. The true skeptic takes an agnostic position, one that says the claim is not proved rather than disproved. He asserts that the claimant has not borne the burden of proof and that science must continue to build its cognitive map of reality without incorporating the extraordinary claim as a new "fact." Since the true skeptic does not assert a claim, he has no burden to prove anything. He just goes on using the established theories of "conventional science" as usual. But if a critic asserts that there is evidence for disproof, that he has a negative hypothesis --saying, for instance, that a seeming psi result was actually due to an artifact--he is making a claim and therefore also has to bear a burden of proof.[3]

Truzzi attributed the following characteristics to pseudoskeptics:

The tendency to deny, rather than doubt [4]
Double standards in the application of criticism [5]
The making of judgments without full inquiry [6]
Tendency to discredit, rather than investigate [7]
Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments[8]
Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.'[9]
Presenting insufficient evidence or proof [10]
Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof [11]
Making unsubstantiated counter-claims [12]
Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence [13]
Suggesting that unconvincing evidence is grounds for dismissing it [14]

Clove

03-27-2008, 02:00 PM

"Ama" is the Xhosa prefix that means "a lot of"
"bhulu" is the Xhosa word for "boer"

The Xhosa people have a difficult time pronouncing "R", because the Xhosa pronounce this letter as the "ch" in Reich. They therefore substituted the "r" at the end of "boer" with the letter ''L". Koreans are also known to do this for the sake of easier pronunciation. Lastly the "oe" sound is in fact "oo" as in moo or goo. The Xhosa people substituted this sound with the letter "u".

So a direct translation should really be "boers", the plural for "boer"

Definition of "boer": (NOUN: A Dutch colonist or descendant of a Dutch colonist in South Africa. ETYMOLOGY: Afrikaans, from Dutch, farmer, from Middle Dutch gheboer, peasant; see bheu- in Indo-European roots)

Any dispute, Jesuit?

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 02:02 PM

Clove

03-27-2008, 02:04 PM

That definition is pretty much what I said earlier.

Boer/=White people

Parkbandit

03-27-2008, 02:07 PM

Oh really? So, you know that 97% of his contributions came in denominations of $200 or less. Compared to like 17% for other candidates right?

I'd ask you to back your ascertations, but then I know that's impossible. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Once again... you've missed the point.

You posted : He takes no money from special interest
Someone posts: Actually, he took a bunch of money from this nuclear special interest group.
You posted : Yea, but look at the other candidates.. and really 159,000 is just like zero.

And especially in this thread.. do you want to post something like "I'd ask you to back your assertions (I corrected your spelling.. dumbass), but then I know that's impossible" after you are caught in twice fabricating shit for your own argument sake?

You are trying so hard to get the Hypocrite of the Day award...

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 02:07 PM

Boer/=White people

Bhulu is a word used to refer to the boers (Afrikaan word for white farmers)

You just repeated what I said. Want a cookie?

Back

03-27-2008, 02:08 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism

i.e.

Wikipedia source? lawlz. Anyone can make up anything they want and put it up there! Therefore that article has no relevance whatsoever!

Clove

03-27-2008, 02:09 PM

You just repeated what I said. Want a cookie?So you agree they weren't singing about killing any and all white people, they were singing about killing their enemies (the Boers) who are white. And yes a cookie would be nice, I feel I'm owed something for being right :D

CrystalTears

03-27-2008, 02:10 PM

You just repeated what I said. Want a cookie?
But they're not "traditional" white people. Even Tsa`ah can comprehend that difference.

Daniel

03-27-2008, 02:11 PM

Once again... you've missed the point.

You posted : He takes no money from special interest
Someone posts: Actually, he took a bunch of money from this nuclear special interest group.
You posted : Yea, but look at the other candidates.. and really 159,000 is just like zero.

Actually, no. That's not how the conversation went.

But Feel free to quote me where I said "But look at the other candidates".

I bet you can't do it!!

I want an exact quote!

Daniel

03-27-2008, 02:12 PM

But they're not "traditional" white people. Even Tsa`ah can comprehend that difference.

Nelson Mandela is racist okay

CrystalTears

03-27-2008, 02:14 PM

But I wasn't talking about "traditional" Muslims. And you, of all people, called me stupid.
But you ARE stupid, Tsa`ah.

Clove

03-27-2008, 02:15 PM

Actually I called you stupid too Jesuit (nice post deletion).

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 02:18 PM

Actually I called you stupid too Jesuit (nice post deletion).

Call me whatever you want, a definition doesn't prove me wrong. You already already proved the point I was trying to make.

CrystalTears

03-27-2008, 02:21 PM

Call me whatever you want, a definition doesn't prove me wrong. You already already proved the point I was trying to make.
Perhaps you should explain your definition of "white people" because it apparently differs from.. oh I don't know... the rest of the world.

Clove

03-27-2008, 02:22 PM

Call me whatever you want, a definition doesn't prove me wrong. You already already proved the point I was trying to make.Really? You were trying to make the point that there was a war over Aparthied in South Africa and the Boers and Xhosas were the principles? Didn't they have world history in your high school?

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 02:26 PM

Really? You were trying to make the point that there was a war over Aparthied in South Africa and the Boers and Xhosas were the principles? Didn't they have world history in your high school?

Sure. That was it.

Jesuit

03-27-2008, 02:28 PM

Perhaps you should explain your definition of "white people" because it apparently differs from.. oh I don't know... the rest of the world.

So it's ok for me to sing a song about killing a group of people based on a definition?

Clove

03-27-2008, 02:29 PM

Sure. That was it.
So after "proving" Nelson Mandela a racist, what's next on your agenda? "Proving" the Holocaust was a hoax?

Parkbandit

03-27-2008, 02:36 PM

Actually, no. That's not how the conversation went.

But Feel free to quote me where I said "But look at the other candidates".

I bet you can't do it!!

I want an exact quote!

Fine. Unlike you, I didn't have to make shit up. Here you go dipshit:

First assertion by you:

Except...he's accepted no money from lobbyist or special interests..

Retort:

Is that what he told you?

How about the Nuclear Lobby? Obama has so far accepted $159,800 from executives and employees of Exelon, the nation’s largest nuclear power plant operator.

Your response:

$159,800

Is what percent of his total contributions?

Then a few posts later, here is the winner. I've bolded the part where you mentioned the other candidates:

I could explain how taking a couple hundred grand out of dozens of millions is comparable to nothing, especially when it's spread out over dozens of individual people. Especially compared to the other candidates, but I mean I doubt you care.

See.. it's not really that hard to prove something.. if you don't have to make it up to begin with. Grats on getting pwned by your own posts.