Totalitarian Trump!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yes. One who had a front row seat to what Trump was doing.

And a man who has shown more patriotism for his country in the last 12 hours than you have in your entire life.

Ad Hominem (https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/#adhominem) fallacy

[Parkbandit]

Yes. One who had a front row seat to what Trump was doing.

And a man who has shown more patriotism for his country in the last 12 hours than you have in your entire life.

So that is your definition of being patriotic.. when he says things you agree with?

What about his entire career?

Honestly, thank you for coming back. After the fiasco of the 2016 election, Russian collusion and all the other things you were proven to be wrong about.. I really didn't think you would come back.

Glad it only took the riots to bring you back and in your old fighting form.

Thank you.

[~Rocktar~]

Yes. One who had a front row seat to what Trump was doing.

And a man who has shown more patriotism for his country in the last 12 hours than you have in your entire life.

So you are now psychic about me and my patriotism? Or is it just another one of your sad, emotional outbursts from when you are shown how wrong you are? I think it is mostly because you are a nattering little puterelle with nothing better to do than try and seem educated and relevant.

[Seran]

Yes. One who had a front row seat to what Trump was doing.

And a man who has shown more patriotism for his country in the last 12 hours than you have in your entire life.

It's kind of amazing how Trump appointees and cabinet members are true Patriots and heroes until they wake up to and try and correct the President's kamikaze leadership style. Once that happens they're suddenly losers, traitors and totally worthless. Reviled by the Conservative propaganda factory.

[~Rocktar~]

It's kind of amazing how Trump appointees and cabinet members are true Patriots and heroes until they wake up to and try and correct the President's kamikaze leadership style. Once that happens they're suddenly losers, traitors and totally worthless. Reviled by the Conservative propaganda factory.

When you are an employee, you don't get to tell your boss what they should do. Try it at your job, go up and tell your boss they are full of shit and don't know what they are doing, then go out in public and do that again and let's see how that goes for you.

[Solkern]

When you are an employee, you don't get to tell your boss what they should do. Try it at your job, go up and tell your boss they are full of shit and don't know what they are doing, then go out in public and do that again and let's see how that goes for you.


But their employer has no problem going in public to shit on his employees and former employees. Last I checked that’s a a sign of a shitty boss.
If trump is going to dish it out, he better be able to take it right back.

Goes both ways.

[~Rocktar~]

But their employer has no problem going in public to shit on his employees and former employees. Last I checked that’s a a sign of a shitty boss.
If trump is going to dish it out, he better be able to take it right back.

Goes both ways.

Last I checked, your boss still gets to fire you when you act that way. Whining after you are fired for being an ass really screams disgruntled ex-employee. The smartest and best people in business don't shit on past employers no matter how bad they are and they don't go around publicly shitting on their employer while they are employed.

[Blazar]

Mattis didn't get fired, he resigned, no matter how Trump wants to say it happened. His then Chief of Staff stated as much. You can go work for Trump, but I never would, and I definitely feel sorry for anyone who does. No one should be manipulated, bullied, and coerced the way he does.

[Solkern]

Last I checked, your boss still gets to fire you when you act that way. Whining after you are fired for being an ass really screams disgruntled ex-employee. The smartest and best people in business don't shit on past employers no matter how bad they are and they don't go around publicly shitting on their employer while they are employed.


Agree, and still, and the smartest and best bosses don’t shit on their employees former or current. Shouldn’t a boss take the “higher road”?

[Gelston]

Yep, I'm out. I can't support Trump anymore. Looks like I'm voting Libertarian this year, because fuck that bullshit Dems put up too. I hope Mattis runs one of these days.

[Tgo01]

Yep, I'm out. I can't support Trump anymore. Looks like I'm voting Libertarian this year, because fuck that bullshit Dems put up too. I hope Mattis runs one of these days.

Why because Mattis spoke out about Trump?

[Furryrat]

It's kind of amazing how Trump appointees and cabinet members are true Patriots and heroes until they wake up to and try and correct the President's kamikaze leadership style. Once that happens they're suddenly losers, traitors and totally worthless. Reviled by the Conservative propaganda factory.

It's kind of amazing how Trump appointees and cabinet members are true villains until they are entrapped by Democrats and fired by the President. Once that happens they're suddenly patriots and heroes. Anointed by the Democratic propaganda factory.

See what I did there? Take off the tinted glasses.

Mattis, though. He's the sort of American that stands above all this political bullshit. You blue types that would love him now do so for the very reason we always did.

[Tgo01]

It's kind of amazing how Trump appointees and cabinet members are true villains until they are entrapped by Democrats and fired by the President. Once that happens they're suddenly patriots and heroes. Anointed by the Democratic propaganda factory.

20 bucks says within a year Mattis will announce a book deal or land a paid job on CNN or MSNBC or something.

It's like clockwork with ex-Trump appointees.

Media: This person is literally Hitler!!!
Person quits/is fired and starts talking bad about Trump: This person makes a lot of sense!!!!
Person then lands some sort of deal where they make money off of their time working for Trump.

[Gelston]

Why because Mattis spoke out about Trump?

A lot of reasons. Trump being a petulant child is a large reason. He hasn't handled himself the last week very well at all either. I never liked the motherfucker in the first place but I still like him over Hillary and wouldn't change that vote if I could. He is about even with Biden for me at this point though. That photo op at the church was especially fucking stupid. My state will go red anyways, but I'm not going to help it.

[Tgo01]

A lot of reasons. Trump being a petulant child is a large reason. He hasn't handled himself the last week very well at all either. I never liked the motherfucker in the first place but I still like him over Hillary and wouldn't change that vote if I could. He is about even with Biden for me at this point though. That photo op at the church was especially fucking stupid. My state will go red anyways, but I'm not going to help it.

I didn't like Trump either in 2016 and didn't even vote for him but he has been one of the best conservative presidents of my lifetime.

You must have taken to drug use during these lockdowns to suggest he's even with Biden.

[Gelston]

I didn't like Trump either in 2016 and didn't even vote for him but he has been one of the best conservative presidents of my lifetime.

You must have taken to drug use during these lockdowns to suggest he's even with Biden.

Oh ok. That is it.

[Tgo01]

Oh ok. That is it.

I knew it!

[Gelston]

I knew it!

Bless your heart.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

20 bucks says within a year Mattis will announce a book deal or land a paid job on CNN or MSNBC or something.

Everyone in politics does this. I would do it if I could. Mattis is and was one of his best cabinet members ever.

[time4fun]

But their employer has no problem going in public to shit on his employees and former employees. Last I checked that’s a a sign of a shitty boss.
If trump is going to dish it out, he better be able to take it right back.

Goes both ways.

It's also important to remember that civil servants swear loyalty to the US Constitution- not the current sitting President. Though we often hear the "serves at the pleasure of the President" line, most of the Executive branch actually doesn't serve at the pleasure of the President. The rules of hiring and firing are generally set by Congress. Obviously in this case we're talking about a political appointee, so that's different, but even political appointees still swear an oath of loyalty to the Constitution- not to Trump. It is their job to make sure the Constitution is being followed and to call out abuses when they see them.

This whole disgruntled employee defense is therefore both nonsensical and dangerous. It's nonsensical because we aren't talking about one or two people here. We're talking about dozens who have all said the same things over and over: these servants of the American people have been trying to warn the American people about what's going on in government right now. This isn't about a single person with a vendetta- it's a massive parade of people whose loyalty is to the US Constitution who are all corroborating each others' stories.

And that's also why this is so dangerous. The "disgruntled former employee" excuse is being used as a blanket dismissal against the people who are closest to what is going on. These are the people who are in the best position to see- and therefore report on- abuses going on in the Administration. Dismissing every one of them as "disgruntled former employees" **because** they happened to be closest to it effectively makes it impossible to track those abuses.

[time4fun]

Looking at the core question of this thread, I think it's sometimes easier to understand the dangers in your own country when you can look at them from an outsider's perspective. Business Insider ran an excellent article today (https://www.businessinsider.com/european-security-officials-aghast-trump-protests-2020-6?fbclid=IwAR1ML6NSAbsdLQY4X2lnN_Q490I08teY-CL_ZQ0kTVCInZBNvC7w70o_zAY)that helps put into context how dangerous the behavior that Trump supports are ushering in right now actually is.

Think to all of the memories you have of watching Governments deploy force against peaceful protesters. Think about the images in your mind of the countries where military troops and tanks are sent out to the streets. China. Russia. The Philippines. I don't recall at any point in my lifetime where the US Federal government ever attacked peaceful protesters. Or called them terrorists. Or amplified calls for violence against members of the opposition political party. These are not American values. And shrugging our shoulders and looking the other way is how these abuses become normalized.

It's amazing the uproar on the right about Freedom of Speech when Twitter fact checked Trump and then the subsequent, deafening silence when he ordered an attack on peaceful protesters and amplified thinly veiled calls for violence against people because of their political party affiliation.

Look at the countries you admire most. And look at the countries who are enemies of democracy. Which group uses these tactics against its own citizens?

We have lost our way, and if we don't right the course we risk staying lost.


Intelligence and law-enforcement officials among America's allies in Europe and the Middle East told Insider they were aghast at the heavy-handed tactics and rhetoric used by US police generally, and by the president specifically, to suppress demonstrations against police abuses of African Americans.


"It has been chilling watching the United States devolve into the same strongman-style policing and rhetoric we have been opposing together as allies in the Middle East and Eastern Europe," a NATO military intelligence official who has deployed to the Middle East, Africa, and Afghanistan in support of various anti-terrorism campaigns told Insider.



"Look at the critical issues the NATO alliance faces together: containing an increasingly belligerent and aggressive Russia, reducing the threat of terrorism both in Europe and the Middle East, and confronting China over its heavy-handed approach to Hong Kong," the official said. 


"In each of these critical areas, Trump has responded to the protests almost exactly like our opponents in each of these fields: He refuses to take responsibility and blames outside agitators, he threatens physical force against the press, he demands harsher crackdowns on the protesters from local officials and uses the backdrop of nationalism and religion in the church stunt to look like a dictator," the official said.

"Tell me again how the president of the United States is better than [Russian President Vladimir] Putin or [Turkish President Tayyip] Erdogan?" the official asked. "Because the view from Europe is that they're all a bunch of undemocratic strongmen best kept at arm's length."

[Tgo01]

I don't recall at any point in my lifetime where the US Federal government ever attacked peaceful protesters.

Fuck you.

David Dorn MURDERED by a "peaceful protester."

Italia Kelly MURDERED by a "peaceful protester."

Cities being burned down. People being beaten in the streets in broad daylight.

"Peaceful protesters" my fucking ass.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Looking at the core question of this thread, I think it's sometimes easier to understand the dangers in your own country when you can look at them from an outsider's perspective.

I'm curious, have you ever lived in another country?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I don't recall at any point in my lifetime where the US Federal government ever attacked peaceful protesters.

Me either, up through right now.

[Solkern]

I'm curious, have you ever lived in another country?


I have, and I’ve experienced this shit first hand, in China and Russia.

And what trump is saying/doing mirrors quite a lot of what they say/do as well.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I have, and I’ve experienced this shit first hand, in China and Russia.

And what trump is saying/doing mirrors quite a lot of what they say/do as well.

Oh, please give us some specific examples comparing what Trump is doing to China and Russia... I'd love to see the comparisons.

[time4fun]

Oh, please give us some specific examples comparing what Trump is doing to China and Russia... I'd love to see the comparisons.

I think you need to take a second stab at reading that post.

[time4fun]

Me either, up through right now.

Except that's literally what happened a few days ago. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe a Bishop of the Church the protesters were in front of before they were cleared by force by our government.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XOV5dLZJs

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think you need to take a second stab at reading that post.

I have a very serious question for you.

Are you retarded or have downs or some other disease or birth defeat that causes you to be a stupid cunt?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Except that's literally what happened a few days ago. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe a Bishop of the Church the protesters were in front of before they were cleared by force by our government.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XOV5dLZJs

Still haven't. Try again.

[Parkbandit]

Yep, I'm out. I can't support Trump anymore. Looks like I'm voting Libertarian this year, because fuck that bullshit Dems put up too. I hope Mattis runs one of these days.

Mattis is being very political right now.

I bet he runs for something very soon.

And I like him... I just don't like the kind of Mitt Romney style politics he plays.

[time4fun]

I have a very serious question for you.

Are you retarded or have downs or some other disease or birth defeat that causes you to be a stupid cunt?

I have an equally serious question for you. A few actually.

1) Do you not know how to use prepositions? Because you asked for examples of what Trump is doing TO China and Russia. Though you're so smart that I'm sure you were aware of that.

2) Are you really so insecure that reading something that questions your arguments sends you into a rage? And did you intentionally skip over the examples given for the question you actually meant to ask, or did you just not understand the post?

Thoughts and prayers sweetie.

Thoughts and prayers.

[Astray]

Yep, I'm out. I can't support Trump anymore. Looks like I'm voting Libertarian this year, because fuck that bullshit Dems put up too. I hope Mattis runs one of these days.

Fucking same. This shit is too nutty to be called squirrel shit at this point.

[Parkbandit]

Think to all of the memories you have of watching Governments deploy force against peaceful protesters. Think about the images in your mind of the countries where military troops and tanks are sent out to the streets. China. Russia. The Philippines. I don't recall at any point in my lifetime where the US Federal government ever attacked peaceful protesters. Or called them terrorists. Or amplified calls for violence against members of the opposition political party. These are not American values. And shrugging our shoulders and looking the other way is how these abuses become normalized.

It's amazing the uproar on the right about Freedom of Speech when Twitter fact checked Trump and then the subsequent, deafening silence when he ordered an attack on peaceful protesters and amplified thinly veiled calls for violence against people because of their political party affiliation.

Look at the countries you admire most. And look at the countries who are enemies of democracy. Which group uses these tactics against its own citizens?

We have lost our way, and if we don't right the course we risk staying lost.

Holy shit, that was a combination hit right there.

Seran, I hope you have an effective counter attack planned.

[Solkern]

Oh, please give us some specific examples comparing what Trump is doing to China and Russia... I'd love to see the comparisons.


Labeling protestors, terrorist.
Showing zero willingness to even listen or show any empathy to them.
Sending the military in to stop the protest.
Firing and replacing anyone who disagrees with him.
Public smear campaigns against people who do not show loyalty.
Shall I go on?

These are Russian and Chinese tactics that Trump is using.

I have friends in Russia that say Trump is becoming just like Putin.

[Parkbandit]

I have an equally serious question for you. A few actually.

1) Do you not know how to use prepositions? Because you asked for examples of what Trump is doing TO China and Russia. Though you're so smart that I'm sure you were aware of that.

2) Are you really so insecure that reading something that questions your arguments sends you into a rage? And did you intentionally skip over the examples given for the question you actually meant to ask, or did you just not understand the post?

Thoughts and prayers sweetie.

Thoughts and prayers.

OH SHIT! Ref didn't see that eye poke and low blow!!

Seran, I'm going to need you to get off the mat and start swinging. This is becoming lopsided.

[Astray]

OH SHIT! Ref didn't see that eye poke and low blow!!

Seran, I'm going to need you to get off the mat and start swinging. This is becoming lopsided.

I'm the ref and I'll allow it. Get it on!

[Parkbandit]

Labeling protestors, terrorist.
Showing zero willingness to even listen or show any empathy to them.
Sending the military in to stop the protest.
Firing and replacing anyone who disagrees with him.
Public smear campaigns against people who do not show loyalty.
Shall I go on?

These are Russian and Chinese tactics that Trump is using.

I have friends in Russia that say Trump is becoming just like Putin.

Wait your turn.

[Solkern]

Wait your turn.

I’ll wait for you to add something productive to this forum, I know it might be difficult for you, but at least give it a try.

Your post consist of 90% just talking shit. Typical tactics of a low educated person that can’t bring anything of value to a conversation.

While I disagree with a lot of people here, and they disagree with me, at least for the most part they actually add value to the topic at hand, while you just throw insults like a high school kid.

Keep at it. Whatever makes you feel important.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Labeling protestors, terrorist.
Showing zero willingness to even listen or show any empathy to them.
Sending the military in to stop the protest.
Firing and replacing anyone who disagrees with him.
Public smear campaigns against people who do not show loyalty.
Shall I go on?

These are Russian and Chinese tactics that Trump is using.

I have friends in Russia that say Trump is becoming just like Putin.

I have friends in China and Russia who say Putin is becoming just like Trump. He's using tactics that Trump uses in Russia.

[Solkern]

I have friends in China and Russia who say Putin is becoming just like Trump. He's using tactics that Trump uses in Russia.

There are pro-Russian newspapers, and anti-Putin newspapers that call Trump a Putin wannabe.
That should raise some red flags.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I have an equally serious question for you. A few actually.

1) Do you not know how to use prepositions? Because you asked for examples of what Trump is doing TO China and Russia. Though you're so smart that I'm sure you were aware of that.

2) Are you really so insecure that reading something that questions your arguments sends you into a rage? And did you intentionally skip over the examples given for the question you actually meant to ask, or did you just not understand the post?

Thoughts and prayers sweetie.

Thoughts and prayers.

It's ironic you mock my grammar, when you make mistakes in your response.

I'm in no rage, I was just looking to confirm you are on the spectrum or suffer from some disability. You did confirm it for me, so thanks.

You should stick to telling the race of a person by what they type on a message board, and also calling them racist for disagreeing with your cunt viewpoint.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

There are pro-Russian newspapers, and anti-Putin newspapers that call Trump a Putin wannabe.
That should raise some red flags.

It's almost like there is a variety of opinion on the matter.

[Solkern]

It's almost like there is a variety of opinion on the matter.

100% agree, but any time our enemies media compares the likeness of Putin and our president, can’t be a good sign.

[~Rocktar~]

There are pro-Russian newspapers, and anti-Putin newspapers that call Trump a Putin wannabe.
That should raise some red flags.

Surely because the media says it's so, it must be fact, amirite?

[Parkbandit]

I’ll wait for you to add something productive to this forum, I know it might be difficult for you, but at least give it a try.

Your post consist of 90% just talking shit. Typical tactics of a low educated person that can’t bring anything of value to a conversation.

While I disagree with a lot of people here, and they disagree with me, at least for the most part they actually add value to the topic at hand, while you just throw insults like a high school kid.

Keep at it. Whatever makes you feel important.

I thought me saying "wait your turn" would clue you into you being retarded.. but I suppose I took it for granted your IQ was above 78.

Which point did you need me to make to illustrate you are talking about things you obviously know so very little about, specifically?

[Solkern]

Surely because the media says it's so, it must be fact, amirite?

Well, put it like this, imagine, left wing, right wing, independent media sources, and the White House all agree on a news story, that brings supportive facts to the table.

Would you consider the story factual?

Because that’s what it’s pretty much like.

[Parkbandit]

100% agree, but any time our enemies media compares the likeness of Putin and our president, can’t be a good sign.

And like a good sock puppet, you are there to "raise your red flag up"...

[time4fun]

It's ironic you mock my grammar, when you make mistakes in your response.

I'm in no rage, I was just looking to confirm you are on the spectrum or suffer from some disability. You did confirm it for me, so thanks.

You should stick to telling the race of a person by what they type on a message board, and also calling them racist for disagreeing with your cunt viewpoint.

You get very upset in these conversations. You might want to step away a bit- feels like this may be a bit too much for you.

[time4fun]

Surely because the media says it's so, it must be fact, amirite?

So here's what I'm going to call you out on: you have yet to actually respond to the substance of any recent posts in this thread.

When I brought up a list of despotic actions by Trump- you jumped into a "But Democrats!" diatribe that was made up of falsehoods and broad claims with no specific evidence cited. You never once directly responded to any of Trump's actions listed in the post.

When Mattis's condemnation of Trump was brought up, you immediately- and flippantly- referred to him as a disgruntled former employee without once addressing any of the substance of his argument. As though Mattis being disgruntled somehow has any bearing on the validity of his argument.

And now that the discussion has moved on to a very troubling first for America- our own allies (and enemies apparently) lumping our country together with dictatorships- you just gave a blanket non-response about the media not always being right.

So one of two things is going on here: Either you are subconsciously refusing to acknowledge the facts so you don't have to process them and risk destabilizing your worldview, or you are very intentionally trying to deflect because you have no actual defense to provide. Both option is a tacit acknowledgement that this is fundamentally not defensible, by the way.

Start addressing the substance of posts. If you have a perspective on what's going on that validates an alternative interpretation- then share it. If you don't, then stop trying to change the subject. It's not your job to defend Trump. It's just your job to defend your perspective.

[Jeril]

Labeling protestors, terrorist.
Showing zero willingness to even listen or show any empathy to them.
Sending the military in to stop the protest.
Firing and replacing anyone who disagrees with him.
Public smear campaigns against people who do not show loyalty.
Shall I go on?

These are Russian and Chinese tactics that Trump is using.

I have friends in Russia that say Trump is becoming just like Putin.

You know who else does those things in bold?

[Solkern]

You know who else does those things in bold?

I’m sure quite a lot, but we are talking about Trump, Russia and China.

As I have personal experience from these things happening abroad.

[Jeril]

I’m sure quite a lot, but we are talking about Trump, Russia and China.

As I have personal experience from these things happening abroad.

We are talking about right here in the good ol US of A. And they've been doing it longer than Trump has been in office. It's part of the reason why he is even in office in the first place. Trump is merely a symptom of what's wrong with the country. You shouldn't let yourself be so readily sold on him being the disease itself. You claim to have an open mind, so take a moment and actually look around at everything before you respond. And not just a glance to reaffirm what you think you know to be right, take a real long look. Something else to consider is that two wrongs don't make a right. So, just where is all of this leading us?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You get very upset in these conversations. You might want to step away a bit- feels like this may be a bit too much for you.

I'm not sure you understand how little you affect me. You are some random cunt on the internet who thinks she knows everything. As evidenced by your posts, you don't. In fact, as evidenced by your posts, you are remarkably ignorant and racist. I like to call out racist cunts like yourself, doesn't mean I get upset. I enjoy it.

[Solkern]

We are talking about right here in the good ol US of A. And they've been doing it longer than Trump has been in office. It's part of the reason why he is even in office in the first place. Trump is merely a symptom of what's wrong with the country. You shouldn't let yourself be so readily sold on him being the disease itself. You claim to have an open mind, so take a moment and actually look around at everything before you respond. And not just a glance to reaffirm what you think you know to be right, take a real long look. Something else to consider is that two wrongs don't make a right. So, just where is all of this leading us?


I haven’t lived in the states for 15+ years, I personally haven’t experienced what I said before I left, only since I’ve been back.

I’ve never seen a russian newspaper in any way, ever praise, or compare the likeness of a US president actions and words to a Russian president in any way.

That’s the issue, you have pro Russian, pro Putin newspapers and the other side claiming trump is just like Putin.

[time4fun]

We are talking about right here in the good ol US of A. And they've been doing it longer than Trump has been in office. It's part of the reason why he is even in office in the first place. Trump is merely a symptom of what's wrong with the country. You shouldn't let yourself be so readily sold on him being the disease itself. You claim to have an open mind, so take a moment and actually look around at everything before you respond. And not just a glance to reaffirm what you think you know to be right, take a real long look. Something else to consider is that two wrongs don't make a right. So, just where is all of this leading us?

Jeril, I don't think anyone here is going to argue that there weren't serious, systemic problems before Trump showed up. You're obviously right about that.

But come on-
Can you give another example of a sitting US President in our lifetimes amplifying something even close to "The only good Democrat is a dead Democrat"? Or threatening to unleash the military on US citizens on US soil? Any President who has attacked peaceful US protesters exercising their 1st Amendment rights?

What about a sitting President who tried to blackmail a foreign leader into interfering in our elections by announcing a fake investigation into a private US citizen who also happens to be a political rival?

Your point is by no means invalid, but I fear you're inadvertently normalizing things that should NEVER be normalized in a functional democracy.

I think the thing that is so hard for so many of us to wrap our heads around is the comfort people have with our country doing things to its citizens that we used to only read about from dictatorships. And the actions are getting increasingly severe.

What do you think it's going to be like when he doesn't have to worry about re-election?

There's still time to stop this. But not if we pretend like this is just business as usual.

[time4fun]

I'm not sure you understand how little you affect me. You are some random cunt on the internet who thinks she knows everything. As evidenced by your posts, you don't. In fact, as evidenced by your posts, you are remarkably ignorant and racist. I like to call out racist cunts like yourself, doesn't mean I get upset. I enjoy it.

I'm sorry that you're so upset.

[Murrandii]

I'm sorry that you're so upset.

Admit you have fun provocating people on an obscure forum at the least

I know you are brilliant, it appears in your way of debating, I wouldn't be surprised your IQ is more than 125. For real, no trolling here.

But you are also addicted, from what I understand of your patterns on lnet and here, about provocation as a whole. You have the power to provok many and it creates, probably, a sense of superiority against these so low human beings that share, paradoxaly, the same exact genes as you.

And that need of provocation is intimely linked to a lack of self confidence, we both know it.

I'd quit a bit bro, cause you are becoming a caricature of yourself and you are doing the exact opposite in your subconsciousness, you will start eventually, if it's not already begun, to doubt your own capacity by always trying to dimunish others and you'll eventually break yourself and your ego.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm sorry that you're so upset.

i do not accept cunt apologies, but you are welcome from me, for responding to your ridiculous posts.

[Blazar]

Jeril, I don't think anyone here is going to argue that there weren't serious, systemic problems before Trump showed up. You're obviously right about that.

But come on-
Can you give another example of a sitting US President in our lifetimes amplifying something even close to "The only good Democrat is a dead Democrat"? Or threatening to unleash the military on US citizens on US soil? Any President who has attacked peaceful US protesters exercising their 1st Amendment rights?

What about a sitting President who tried to blackmail a foreign leader into interfering in our elections by announcing a fake investigation into a private US citizen who also happens to be a political rival?

Your point is by no means invalid, but I fear you're inadvertently normalizing things that should NEVER be normalized in a functional democracy.

I think the thing that is so hard for so many of us to wrap our heads around is the comfort people have with our country doing things to its citizens that we used to only read about from dictatorships. And the actions are getting increasingly severe.

What do you think it's going to be like when he doesn't have to worry about re-election?

There's still time to stop this. But not if we pretend like this is just business as usual.

While I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, protests about the Vietnam War definitely turned very ugly and there was police brutality everywhere, even against non-violent demonstrators. Army and National Guard were deployed. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2018/aug/19/the-whole-world-is-watching-chicago-police-riot-vietnam-war-regan

The problem is, I think it's reached the point that violence will only beget more violence. But to pretend it has never happened before is kind of silly.

EDIT - I can't justify the things he says, so I won't even try. This THEM and US shit has to stop though, and as President, he'd be the one that could set an example and be the better man, instead of making up names and attacking every person who disagrees with him. We're all in this together. We're all Americans. Stop fighting, and work together. We could accomplish so much more. He is not the smartest person in the world. It will take all of us to make this thing work.

[Voldemort]

i do not accept cunt apologies, but you are welcome from me, for responding to your ridiculous posts.

This dude has sucked a few cocks in his life I can just tell from how he posts. Nothing wrong with being gay dude; the sooner you come to terms with that the faster you’ll get that stick out of your ass... unless you like it there. hmmm...

[time4fun]

This dude has sucked a few cocks in his life I can just tell from how he posts. Nothing wrong with being gay dude; the sooner you come to terms with that the faster you’ll get that stick out of your ass... unless you like it there. hmmm...

Be nice. He's very emotional and very sensitive. These online posts really upset him.

You should apologize

[Murrandii]

Be nice. He's very emotional and very sensitive. These online posts really upset him.

You should apologize

Stop. You are worse than him by that kind of behavior.

You are losing allies man.

[Parkbandit]

So here's what I'm going to call you out on: you have yet to actually respond to the substance of any recent posts in this thread.

When I brought up a list of despotic actions by Trump- you jumped into a "But Democrats!" diatribe that was made up of falsehoods and broad claims with no specific evidence cited. You never once directly responded to any of Trump's actions listed in the post.

When Mattis's condemnation of Trump was brought up, you immediately- and flippantly- referred to him as a disgruntled former employee without once addressing any of the substance of his argument. As though Mattis being disgruntled somehow has any bearing on the validity of his argument.

And now that the discussion has moved on to a very troubling first for America- our own allies (and enemies apparently) lumping our country together with dictatorships- you just gave a blanket non-response about the media not always being right.

So one of two things is going on here: Either you are subconsciously refusing to acknowledge the facts so you don't have to process them and risk destabilizing your worldview, or you are very intentionally trying to deflect because you have no actual defense to provide. Both option is a tacit acknowledgement that this is fundamentally not defensible, by the way.

Start addressing the substance of posts. If you have a perspective on what's going on that validates an alternative interpretation- then share it. If you don't, then stop trying to change the subject. It's not your job to defend Trump. It's just your job to defend your perspective.

Seran got knocked down, but is shaking off the cobwebs.. gets back up after a 5 count.

[time4fun]

Stop. You are worse than him by that kind of behavior.

You are losing allies man.

Well hello double standard, my old friend. I haven't seen you in hours!

[Parkbandit]

I'm not sure you understand how little you affect me. You are some random cunt on the internet who thinks she knows everything. As evidenced by your posts, you don't. In fact, as evidenced by your posts, you are remarkably ignorant and racist. I like to call out racist cunts like yourself, doesn't mean I get upset. I enjoy it.

Are you assuming it's gender?

[Murrandii]

Well hello double standard, my old friend. I haven't seen you in hours!

Why am I double standard? Because I Don't agree with your behavior? Because if I don't say EXACTLY what you want, I'm against you? Your binary way to think is the sole reason why you are you against the world, EXACTLY what you denounce here.

You are a caricature of yourself.

[Parkbandit]

Be nice. He's very emotional and very sensitive. These online posts really upset him.

You should apologize

She just punched herself in the face! How the fuck can you do that??

Seran is still out on his feet, but another self hit like that and Seran can retain the belt without even throwing a punch.

[time4fun]

Why am I double standard? Because I Don't agree with your behavior? Because if I don't say EXACTLY what you want, I'm against you? Your binary way to think is the sole reason why you are you against the world, EXACTLY what you denounce here.

You are a caricature of yourself.

No because you saw a post calling someone a cunt and a post calling someone a cock sucker.

You then took a break from your latest hate thread about someone who upset you to call out a post calling someone emotional for leaving a string of angry attack posts.

Your standards for appropriate posting behavior appear inconsistent at best.

[Methais]

Looking at the core question of this thread, I think it's sometimes easier to understand the dangers in your own country when you can look at them from an outsider's perspective. Business Insider ran an excellent article today (https://www.businessinsider.com/european-security-officials-aghast-trump-protests-2020-6?fbclid=IwAR1ML6NSAbsdLQY4X2lnN_Q490I08teY-CL_ZQ0kTVCInZBNvC7w70o_zAY)that helps put into context how dangerous the behavior that Trump supports are ushering in right now actually is.

Think to all of the memories you have of watching Governments deploy force against peaceful protesters. Think about the images in your mind of the countries where military troops and tanks are sent out to the streets. China. Russia. The Philippines. I don't recall at any point in my lifetime where the US Federal government ever attacked peaceful protesters. Or called them terrorists. Or amplified calls for violence against members of the opposition political party. These are not American values. And shrugging our shoulders and looking the other way is how these abuses become normalized.

It's amazing the uproar on the right about Freedom of Speech when Twitter fact checked Trump and then the subsequent, deafening silence when he ordered an attack on peaceful protesters and amplified thinly veiled calls for violence against people because of their political party affiliation.

Look at the countries you admire most. And look at the countries who are enemies of democracy. Which group uses these tactics against its own citizens?

We have lost our way, and if we don't right the course we risk staying lost.

Shut up loser.

[HOUSE]

Shut up loser.


Ut,uh! I know you are, but what am I?

[Methais]

I have an equally serious question for you. A few actually.

1) Can you smell my hairy armpits from here?

2) Did you know that only stupid cunts call people sweetie?

Thoughts and prayers sweetie.
Thoughts and prayers.

This is correct.

[Methais]

Labeling protestors, terrorist.

He labeled Antifa as terrorists.

Antifa aren't protesters.

Protesters aren't rioters.

[Seran]

With 1.5 TRILLION dollars having been given to businesses, the Trump administration is now refusing to disclose recipients of emergency cornavirus loans to Congress. In somehow overlooking the Constitutional power of the power granted solely to Congress and shunning it's oversight obligations, Trump and his cronies have done a complete about face on their promises of complete transparency. Confidential information, top secret data and national security intelligence data goes to Congress everyday and yet Mnuchin acting on the President's behalf has given the bullshit explanation that 'proprietary' information cannot be disclosed to congress. Really? Without a doubt, when this administration's fat-ass President is kicked out of office, the resulting investigations into the tens, if not hundreds of billions given to junk bond traders, derivatives marketing funds and other Wall Street scammers will forever destroy the public's trust in government bailouts and give a blackeye to Republican party they're likely not to recovery from for years.




Treasury chief refusing to disclose recipients of virus aid



WASHINGTON (AP) — Building ramparts of secrecy around a $600 billion-plus coronavirus aid program for small businesses, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has moved from delay to denial in refusing outright to disclose the recipients of taxpayer-funded loans.


Mnuchin told Congress at a hearing this week that the names of loan recipients and the amounts are “proprietary information.” While he claimed the information is confidential, ethics advocates and some lawmakers see the move as an attempt to dodge accountability for how the money is spent.



https://apnews.com/21f905f0922119534919a9c0effbe46f

[Tgo01]

With 1.5 TRILLION dollars having been given to businesses, the Trump administration is now refusing to disclose recipients of emergency cornavirus loans to Congress. In somehow overlooking the Constitutional power of the power granted solely to Congress and shunning it's oversight obligations, Trump and his cronies have done a complete about face on their promises of complete transparency. Confidential information, top secret data and national security intelligence data goes to Congress everyday and yet Mnuchin acting on the President's behalf has given the bullshit explanation that 'proprietary' information cannot be disclosed to congress. Really? Without a doubt, when this administration's fat-ass President is kicked out of office, the resulting investigations into the tens, if not hundreds of billions given to junk bond traders, derivatives marketing funds and other Wall Street scammers will forever destroy the public's trust in government bailouts and give a blackeye to Republican party they're likely not to recovery from for years.






https://apnews.com/21f905f0922119534919a9c0effbe46f

Seran mad! Seran smash!

Imagine being this impotent on a daily basis.

[Seran]

Seran mad! Seran smash!

Imagine being this impotent on a daily basis.

Imagine being so Right-Blind that you have no concept of your party walking away from the Constitution and the Rule of Law. I know you're still hurting from the Civil Rights Act and Brown vs Board of Education, but progress isn't looting the national treasury or electing criminals with bad hair plugs and mantan.

[Furryrat]

More fake news being fake. Bury it deep and hope they don't read that far, huh.

"...the Government Accountability Office, which is Congress’ auditing arm, and other government watchdogs should have access to the detailed data. Mnuchin promised in his testimony to give the GAO access to the PPP loan data."

[Tgo01]

More fake news being fake. Bury it deep and hope they don't read that far, huh.

"...the Government Accountability Office, which is Congress’ auditing arm, and other government watchdogs should have access to the detailed data. Mnuchin promised in his testimony to give the GAO access to the PPP loan data."

Soyren has no time for silly things like facts! He has rage he must unleash!

[Seran]

More fake news being fake. Bury it deep and hope they don't read that far, huh.

"...the Government Accountability Office, which is Congress’ auditing arm, and other government watchdogs should have access to the detailed data. Mnuchin promised in his testimony to give the GAO access to the PPP loan data."

Quoted for when you look like a fool for believing that lie.

[Methais]

Quoted for when you look like a fool for believing that lie.

You: Waaah waaah orange man bad because reasons!

Normal people: Actually, here's the text that addresses the bullshit you're crying about

You: WAAH WAAH THEY MUST BE LYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also you:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/1c/d0/461cd0801ad393cf2c65dbdbbaeae062.gif

[Parkbandit]

Quoted for when you look like a fool for believing that lie.

So the GAO doesn't have access to that data?

Proof?

[Seran]

Fresh on the heels of claiming to he harmed by Twitter flagging his false and violent tweets, the President has authored a fresh attack on the Constitutional right to free speech.

Can a President claim that all conversations are highly classified? Not without violating the First Amendment, but here we go anyways.


U.S. Files Breach-of-Contract Suit Against Ex-National Security Adviser John Bolton

The U.S. on Tuesday filed a breach-of-contract lawsuit against former national security adviser John Bolton, seeking to delay the publication of his book, which the suit alleges contains classified information that could compromise national security.

On Monday, Mr. Trump accused Mr. Bolton of including classified information in the manuscript, adding that he considers any conversation he has with another official “highly classified.”


https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-files-breach-of-contract-suit-against-ex-national-security-adviser-john-bolton-11592342334

[~Rocktar~]

Fresh on the heels of claiming to he harmed by Twitter flagging his false and violent tweets, the President has authored a fresh attack on the Constitutional right to free speech.

Can a President claim that all conversations are highly classified? Not without violating the First Amendment, but here we go anyways.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-files-breach-of-contract-suit-against-ex-national-security-adviser-john-bolton-11592342334

Free speech is not protected when you sign a non-disclosure contract dumbass.

[Seran]

Free speech is not protected when you sign a non-disclosure contract dumbass.

Have you seen or read this NDA? No, of course not. An NDA applying to conversation's aren't enforceable to public figures in government roles. Even if they did, it couldn't stop a book being published. The beneficiary at best would have a cause of action for damages.

[~Rocktar~]

Have you seen or read this NDA? No, of course not. An NDA applying to conversation's aren't enforceable to public figures in government roles. Even if they did, it couldn't stop a book being published. The beneficiary at best would have a cause of action for damages.

And you got your employment law degree where? You really have no clue.

[time4fun]

Have you seen or read this NDA? No, of course not. An NDA applying to conversation's aren't enforceable to public figures in government roles. Even if they did, it couldn't stop a book being published. The beneficiary at best would have a cause of action for damages.

There are two ways to look at this. From a legal standpoint, Seran is absolutely correct. Public servants don't work for Trump. He's not their employer- the Federal government is. And the Federal Government can't legally prohibit free speech (remember that pesky 1st Amendment?)

The other issue here is one of ethics. The President of the Untied States of America should never attempt to silence a US citizen for any reason other than national security. Trump has repeatedly made legal threats against people for trying to release books, and that's not what the leader of the free world should be doing. He's not a child. And he's not a private citizen. He's the highest elected official in the nation, and he should be setting the example for American values- a standard you (Rockstar) and his other supporters have long since abandoned.

[time4fun]

And you got your employment law degree where? You really have no clue.

Actually- you don't have a clue.

Seran is 100% corrrect.

[Tgo01]

And the Federal Government can't legally prohibit free speech (remember that pesky 1st Amendment?)

Tell that to all of the people serving time for giving away government secrets.

[Tgo01]

Actually- you don't have a clue.

Seran is 100% corrrect.

Ouch, Seran. That's like the kiss of death for any of your arguments when time4fun says you are "100% correct."

Not that your arguments were any good to begin with but now we have scientific confirmation.

[Furryrat]

No, the plaintiff is not Trump, it is the United States of America. The complaint is 27 pages and very thoroughly lays out the timeline where Bolton instructed the publisher Simon and Schuster to proceed with publication without having completed the prepublication review process.

The filing alleges three claims:

Count One: Breach of Contract and Fiduciary Duty; Violation of Prepublication Review Requirement
Count Two: Breach of Contract and Fiduciary Duty; Violation of Duty Not to Disseminate Classified Information
Count Three: Breach of Contract and Fiduciary Duty; Unjust Enrichment; Constructive Trust

Read a copy of the filing here: https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/bolton-trump-memoir-lawsuit-wm.pdf

[~Rocktar~]

Actually- you don't have a clue.

Seran is 100% corrrect.

Wrong. It's almost like I read the complaint and do have a clue. The whole process people with high security clearances have to go through to talk about or publish books about things they know is just one giant non-disclosure agreement. Go fake another PhD.

[~Rocktar~]

Ouch, Seran. That's like the kiss of death for any of your arguments when time4fun says you are "100% correct."

Not that your arguments were any good to begin with but now we have scientific confirmation.

This is correct.

[time4fun]

Wrong. It's almost like I read the complaint and do have a clue. The whole process people with high security clearances have to go through to talk about or publish books about things they know is just one giant non-disclosure agreement. Go fake another PhD.

If you are so stupid that you think that reading the legal complaint tells you what the law is, then my dear I am shocked you can even spell PhD. Or did you miss the legal complaint filed against CNN for its polling?

Obviously the plaintiff's filing isn't going to say "We have no legal leg to stand on here, just so you know". This isn't a lawsuit that's being filed in the hopes of winning on the merits- it's a lawsuit being filed to intimidate both Bolton and any other White House staffers into silence. Because even if you sue someone when you have no legal leg to stand on- it generally still ends up costing them a lot of money. In fact this is a tactic that Trump has used throughout his career.

But, as you are clearly such a legal expert, I'm sure you knew that.

And since clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about- I shall eagerly await your case law citations clearly demonstrating that an NDA a Federal government official is forced to sign in the context of their work as said official is legally binding.

Though I suspect it will be an extremely long wait.

[~Rocktar~]

If you are so stupid that you think that reading the legal complaint tells you what the law is, then my dear I am shocked you can even spell PhD. Or did you miss the legal complaint filed against CNN for its polling?

Obviously the plaintiff's filing isn't going to say "We have no legal leg to stand on here, just so you know". This isn't a lawsuit that's being filed in the hopes of winning on the merits- it's a lawsuit being filed to intimidate both Bolton and any other White House staffers into silence. Because even if you sue someone when you have no legal leg to stand on- it generally still ends up costing them a lot of money. In fact this is a tactic that Trump has used throughout his career.

But, as you are clearly such a legal expert, I'm sure you knew that.

And since clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about- I shall eagerly await your case law citations clearly demonstrating that an NDA a Federal government official is forced to sign in the context of their work as said official is legally binding.

Though I suspect it will be an extremely long wait.

OK Karen.

I am not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV. I do know enough to know that when I had MY security clearance these things were explained and I took their word for it because Federal Prison isn't nice. I also know that legal leg to stand on often has little or no effect on the outcome of a case. AND I know that if you are so abjectly opposed to something then it likely has merit and likely is worth my support. Bolton was an ass as a disgruntled ex-employee and because he couldn't push Trump into invading Iran and other idiot things, he got all butthurt and wanted to cash in. Now, he is going to have to spend that money to defend his shitty actions and I am fine with that.

[Seran]

No, the plaintiff is not Trump, it is the United States of America. The complaint is 27 pages and very thoroughly lays out the timeline where Bolton instructed the publisher Simon and Schuster to proceed with publication without having completed the prepublication review process.

The filing alleges three claims:

Count One: Breach of Contract and Fiduciary Duty; Violation of Prepublication Review Requirement
Count Two: Breach of Contract and Fiduciary Duty; Violation of Duty Not to Disseminate Classified Information
Count Three: Breach of Contract and Fiduciary Duty; Unjust Enrichment; Constructive Trust

Read a copy of the filing here: https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/bolton-trump-memoir-lawsuit-wm.pdf

Precisely why that book is going to come out, given written testimony to all of the illegal doings and Bolton and all of the military leaders and Republicans who have come out against Tyrant Trump will be heroes. There is no legal standing for blocking the book, Bolton will lose some money and earn more in the rest of his life being a paid speaker than the DOJ could ever sue away.

[Seran]

Ouch, Seran. That's like the kiss of death for any of your arguments when time4fun says you are "100% correct."

Not that your arguments were any good to begin with but now we have scientific confirmation.

I always thought that everyone else was a pussy for not standing up to your bigotry and ignorance. Just because they want buffs.

[time4fun]

OK Karen.

I am not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV. I do know enough to know that when I had MY security clearance these things were explained and I took their word for it because Federal Prison isn't nice. I also know that legal leg to stand on often has little or no effect on the outcome of a case. AND I know that if you are so abjectly opposed to something then it likely has merit and likely is worth my support. Bolton was an ass as a disgruntled ex-employee and because he couldn't push Trump into invading Iran and other idiot things, he got all butthurt and wanted to cash in. Now, he is going to have to spend that money to defend his shitty actions and I am fine with that.

I trust you understand the difference between discussing classified information and, say, recounting- in a critical way- the day to day functioning of an Administration. I would think someone who got security clearance would be able to differentiate between the two. There's no reason to suspect that there is any classified information in Bolton's book- Trump is suing to stop speech that is critical of him and his Administration- which is the foundation of why the 1st Amendment was drafted. And by the way, an NDA that suppresses the ability of a current or former government worker to publicly discuss, say, corruption they see in an administration, runs absolutely counter to the foundation of our political system. There are whistleblower laws for government workers specifically because of the legal and political need to be able to hold government accountable. You know, draining the swamp and all of that.

"Having a legal leg to stand on often has little or no effect on the outcome of a case"

There are no words for how absolutely clueless you sound right now. First, this discussion is literally about a legal issue (the enforce-ability of the NDA), so even if you were right (And you are absolutely not), it still wouldn't back up your claim that the NDA is enforceable, nor would it back up your juvenile assumption that the Plaintiff's argument in a case can be taken as a factual recounting of the law.

And I don't want to spoil the punch line for you here, but did you know that in a lawsuit BOTH the Plaintiff AND the Defendant file legal arguments? Shocking, I know. Now here's the big clincher: usually only one of them wins the case. And it's not always the Plaintiff who prevails.

For you to be calling anyone clueless right now in this discussion is laughably ironic. You're out of your league here.

And I notice you didn't provide a single case that would indicate that you're correct, and the rest of us are so wrong.

Finally, the "he's a disgruntled ex employee" is abjectly irrelevant. Not only have there been dozens upon dozens of these "disgruntled former employees" (And I'm sure every single one of them is lying, not the President they all worked under whose staff routinely sounds the alarms about what they're seeing going on in the White House), but a person's motivations for revealing information in no way, shape, or form has any bearing on its veracity.

If I testify that someone assaulted me in Court- they don't dismiss my testimony because I'm "disgruntled". It just means I was there to experience it first hand- which makes me exactly the person they should be listening to.

[~Rocktar~]

I trust you understand the difference between discussing classified information and, say, recounting- in a critical way- the day to day functioning of an Administration. I would think someone who got security clearance would be able to differentiate between the two. There's no reason to suspect that there is any classified information in Bolton's book- Trump is suing to stop speech that is critical of him and his Administration- which is the foundation of why the 1st Amendment was drafted. And by the way, an NDA that suppresses the ability of a current or former government worker to publicly discuss, say, corruption they see in an administration, runs absolutely counter to the foundation of our political system. There are whistleblower laws for government workers specifically because of the legal and political need to be able to hold government accountable. You know, draining the swamp and all of that.

"Having a legal leg to stand on often has little or no effect on the outcome of a case"

There are no words for how absolutely clueless you sound right now. First, this discussion is literally about a legal issue (the enforce-ability of the NDA), so even if you were right (And you are absolutely not), it still wouldn't back up your claim that the NDA is enforceable, nor would it back up your juvenile assumption that the Plaintiff's argument in a case can be taken as a factual recounting of the law.

And I don't want to spoil the punch line for you here, but did you know that in a lawsuit BOTH the Plaintiff AND the Defendant file legal arguments? Shocking, I know. Now here's the big clincher: usually only one of them wins the case. And it's not always the Plaintiff who prevails.

For you to be calling anyone clueless right now in this discussion is laughably ironic. You're out of your league here.

And I notice you didn't provide a single case that would indicate that you're correct, and the rest of us are so wrong.

Finally, the "he's a disgruntled ex employee" is abjectly irrelevant. Not only have there been dozens upon dozens of these "disgruntled former employees" (And I'm sure every single one of them is lying, not the President they all worked under whose staff routinely sounds the alarms about what they're seeing going on in the White House), but a person's motivations for revealing information in no way, shape, or form has any bearing on its veracity.

If I testify that someone assaulted me in Court- they don't dismiss my testimony because I'm "disgruntled". It just means I was there to experience it first hand- which makes me exactly the person they should be listening to.

OK Karen.

[Gelston]

OK Karen.

Don’t call her Karen. She gives them a bad name.

[Solkern]

OK Karen.

Question, if you sign an NDA, that you can’t discuss anything that happens in a place you work, and lets say your boss possibly commits a crime. What are your options?
Will I get sued if I report this crime to the authorities, because I broke the NDA?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Question, if you sign an NDA, that you can’t discuss anything that happens in a place you work, and lets say your boss possibly commits a crime. What are your options?
Will I get sued if I report this crime to the authorities, because I broke the NDA?

No.

[Parkbandit]

I have no idea what I'm talking about

Every post of yours that I read, I go in knowing this fact.

It's literally the most factual thing you've ever posted.

Ever.

[RichardCranium]

Question, if you sign an NDA, that you can’t discuss anything that happens in a place you work, and lets say your boss possibly commits a crime. What are your options?
Will I get sued if I report this crime to the authorities, because I broke the NDA?

No. You probably would if you wrote a book for profit after you were terminated though.

[Methais]

Actually- you don't have a clue.

Seran is 100% corrrect.

Seran is officially in the running for retard champ again with this time4trump endorsement.

Also, do you know what classified information is? Apparently not. Not that anyone is surprised by this. But I'm sure you taught a class once about classified information and are the foremost expert.


seeking to delay the publication of his book, which the suit alleges contains classified information that could compromise national security.

[Methais]

I have no idea what I'm talking about

This is correct.


I always thought that everyone else was a pussy for not standing up to your bigotry and ignorance. Just because they want buffs.

Let's pretend this is actually the case and that it's not just your chronic butthurt speaking.

+40 DS > your entire existence.

Having the mental stability to separate in game from out of game also > your entire existence.

[Seran]

Seran is officially in the running for retard champ again with this time4trump endorsement.

Also, do you know what classified information is? Apparently not. Not that anyone is surprised by this. But I'm sure you taught a class once about classified information and are the foremost expert.

The classification review was completed if Bolton's attorney can be believed, that Trump is claiming all of his conversations are retroactively classified has absolutely no bearing on the law.

Do you really think the DOJ would be trying to sue for unjust enrichment and breaking an as yet to be seen NDA clause if national security were at issue? If there we actual classified or top secret information being disclosed, this would be handled by the National Security Administration sending out a cease and desist order.

Use your brain for once.

[Methais]

The classification review was completed if Bolton's attorney can be believed, that Trump is claiming all of his conversations are retroactively classified has absolutely no bearing on the law.

Do you really think the DOJ would be trying to sue for unjust enrichment and breaking an as yet to be seen NDA clause if national security were at issue? If there we actual classified or top secret information being disclosed, this would be handled by the National Security Administration sending out a cease and desist order.

Use your brain for once.

You forgot to log into your time4fun account.

in b4 IM NOT TIME4FUN OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

[Seran]

You forgot to log into your time4fun account.

in b4 IM NOT TIME4FUN OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

That's about the level of rebuttal I'd expect from a Dreaven

[Parkbandit]

The classification review was completed if Bolton's attorney can be believed, that Trump is claiming all of his conversations are retroactively classified has absolutely no bearing on the law.

Do you really think the DOJ would be trying to sue for unjust enrichment and breaking an as yet to be seen NDA clause if national security were at issue? If there we actual classified or top secret information being disclosed, this would be handled by the National Security Administration sending out a cease and desist order.

Use your brain for once.

I love how Bolton went from being one of the most distrusted people to the left to now the person that must be believed.

I would hate being a liberal.. just for all the fucking whiplash they must suffer through.

[Astray]

That's about the level of rebuttal I'd expect from a Dreaven

Jesus Christ that was cringe.

[Tgo01]

I always thought that everyone else was a pussy for not standing up to your bigotry and ignorance. Just because they want buffs.

Imagine thinking yourself such a victim that if someone says your arguments are shit that person must be a bigot.

[time4fun]

OK Karen.

Awwww, he's so cute when he has no leg to stand on

[time4fun]

The classification review was completed if Bolton's attorney can be believed, that Trump is claiming all of his conversations are retroactively classified has absolutely no bearing on the law.

Do you really think the DOJ would be trying to sue for unjust enrichment and breaking an as yet to be seen NDA clause if national security were at issue? If there we actual classified or top secret information being disclosed, this would be handled by the National Security Administration sending out a cease and desist order.

Use your brain for once.

Also, while the Federal government has the right to punish people for discussing classified information, it never has the right to prevent the speech to begin with.

This issue has been before the Supreme Court several times, and the outcome is always the same: the Federal government can't restrain speech before it occurs.

This is just another example of Trump trashing the 1st Amendment

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I love how Bolton went from being one of the most distrusted people to the left to now the person that must be believed.

I would hate being a liberal.. just for all the fucking whiplash they must suffer through.

Liberals have to be full on hypocrites. You couldn't be a liberal, and actually believe anything you said, if you weren't. A perfect example is Comey who went from Christ son of God, to the devil incarnate, to the second coming of Christ all in the span of a few months.

[Methais]

That's about the level of rebuttal I'd expect from a Dreaven

You're so dense and stupid. Please never stop, at least during work hours when I'm reading.


https://i.imgur.com/4FNbrJP.png

:lol:

[Methais]

Awwww, he's so cute when he has no leg to stand on

That's hilarious coming from you, the biggest liar, the biggest hypocrite, the biggest fart sniffer, the biggest virtue signaler, and the biggest retard in the history of the PC who's wrong in just short of 100% of everything you post and all around sack of human garbage.

Please keep posting.

[Tgo01]

A perfect example is Comey who went from Christ son of God, to the devil incarnate, to the second coming of Christ all in the span of a few months.

I'll never forget watching a video of Colbert breaking the news that Comey had been fired, and his audience, still stuck in the "Comey is the reason Hillary lost!!!!" narrative, started applauding like there was no tomorrow. Then Colbert had to admonish them and not-so-subtlety inform them of the new narrative that Comey is the best law enforcement agent in the history of the world simply because Trump fired him.

For those who haven't seen it yet or just want a good laugh at how absurd Colbert is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCVBEE1SfXI

You can tell he was clearly trying to tell the audience they should hate the news because he had to mention that Comey had been fired by "Donald Trump." This was back before just mentioning the name "Donald Trump" automatically meant you were supposed to boo. This was part of the media's campaign of training liberals to be good little trained seals that don't question the media.

[Seran]

Stunning revelations in excerpts from Bolton's new book are going to put Trump and his closest Republican cheerleaders on the ropes. Do they continue to unwaveringly defend an alleged criminal President and trash lifelong members of their own party? Or will they wake up to their own pre-2016 criticisms of this egotistical maniac.

Will Democrats step up to the plate and launch Impeachment Inquiry 2.0 with fresh revelations of impeachable actions while the country is dealing with a pandemic and on fire with protestor's and riots due to racial disparities and injustice?



Bolton Says Trump Impeachment Inquiry Missed Other Troubling Actions

John R. Bolton, the former national security adviser, says in his new book that the House in its impeachment inquiry should have investigated President Trump not just for pressuring Ukraine to incriminate his domestic foes but for a variety of instances when he sought to intervene in law enforcement matters for political reasons.

Mr. Bolton describes several episodes where the president expressed willingness to halt criminal investigations “to, in effect, give personal favors to dictators he liked,” citing cases involving major firms in China and Turkey. “The pattern looked like obstruction of justice as a way of life, which we couldn’t accept,” Mr. Bolton writes, adding that he reported his concerns to Attorney General William P. Barr.

Mr. Bolton also adds a striking new allegation by saying that Mr. Trump overtly linked trade negotiations to his own political fortunes by asking President Xi Jinping of China to buy a lot of American agricultural products to help him win farm states in this year’s election. Mr. Trump, he writes, was “pleading with Xi to ensure he’d win. He stressed the importance of farmers, and increased Chinese purchases of soybeans and wheat in the electoral outcome.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/us/politics/bolton-book-trump-impeached.html?auth=login-facebook

[Alfster]

Eh. The book that will make waves is the one from his niece. Bolton's book will be full of nothing's to make a quick buck

[Seran]

Eh. The book that will make waves is the one from his niece. Bolton's book will be full of nothing's to make a quick buck

A book portraying Trump as a bully versus a tell all about abuses of power? That Trump is a bully and egotistic isn't a surprise to anyone

[Tgo01]

A book portraying Trump as a bully versus a tell all about abuses of power? That Trump is a bully and egotistic isn't a surprise to anyone

Wait, so are we believing everything Bolton says now?

The lying, cheating, warmongering maniac who hated brown people so much he wanted to bomb all of them back to the stone ages?

It's true what they say: if Hitler were reincarnated and started shit talking Trump the left would immediately praise him and ask him to run for office. And vote for him!

[Alfster]

A book portraying Trump as a bully versus a tell all about abuses of power? That Trump is a bully and egotistic isn't a surprise to anyone

Bolton has underlying motives, he was fired, etc.

A reality star with reality level issues will cause far more stirring than a book that Bolton wouldn't even attest to under oath. Just because a book says what you want it to say, doesn't mean he's being entirely truthful.

[Seran]

Wait, so are we believing everything Bolton says now?

The lying, cheating, warmongering maniac who hated brown people so much he wanted to bomb all of them back to the stone ages?

It's true what they say: if Hitler were reincarnated and started shit talking Trump the left would immediately praise him and ask him to run for office. And vote for him!

Absolutely was waiting for this. So when Trump appints an official as highly qualified and offers unending praise, they're heroes. Now the curtain is pulled back and the truth comes out and to the Right Blind he's suddenly a liar, cheater and warmongerer? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[Seran]

Bolton has underlying motives, he was fired, etc.

A reality star with reality level issues will cause far more stirring than a book that Bolton wouldn't even attest to under oath. Just because a book says what you want it to say, doesn't mean he's being entirely truthful.

You're right, just because it's written doesn't mean it's the truth or even a partial truth. But now we've got several Trump appointee's saying the same thing. Dreaven, Trump and Faux would like you to believe it's a shadowy cabal of liars. However, the preponderance of evidence suggests it's the Truth

[Tgo01]

Absolutely was waiting for this. So when Trump appints an official as highly qualified and offers unending praise, they're heroes. Now the curtain is pulled back and the truth comes out and to the Right Blind he's suddenly a liar, cheater and warmongerer? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

You're confused, these are the words from YOUR side of the aisle about what a bad man Bolton was.

It's okay, Seran, maybe someday you'll have an original and intelligent thought. But it's certainly not today.

[Alfster]

My point is if Bolton felt that what was going on was wrong he absolutely had the opportunity to testify to that under oath. He choose a payday instead. He's just as much part of the corruption as be appears to try to call out

[Gelston]

My point is if Bolton felt that what was going on was wrong he absolutely had the opportunity to testify to that under oath. He choose a payday instead. He's just as much part of the corruption as be appears to try to call out

Or, imagine this, there isn't shit in the book pointing to wrong doing and it is all hype to stimulate sales.

[Alfster]

I mean the shit trickling out is obviously for headlines. China's in there, turkeys in there, some shit on Ivanka. It's not that there's nothing in there, excerpts have been released.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

He choose a payday instead.

After years of government service, and in this political environment... wouldn't you? I know I would. I'd do that rather than let politicians ruin my life forever trying to catch me in a perjury trap.

[Alfster]

I'm not blaming him. I'm skeptical of the content more than anything.

[time4fun]

Liberals have to be full on hypocrites. You couldn't be a liberal, and actually believe anything you said, if you weren't. A perfect example is Comey who went from Christ son of God, to the devil incarnate, to the second coming of Christ all in the span of a few months.

Except that this argument equivocates on the word "trusted".

Bolton does have a reputation for being, let's say "strategic" (misleading) about how he represents some foreign policy situations. But there hasn't been some great argument on the left that everything he says in in the book is accurate- we haven't read it yet.

The criticism he's received on the left has been about actual foreign policy positions and decisions in the past. Not about his level of candor. And while I gather that conservatives tend to be huge fans of black and white situations, it's absolutely possible to disagree with someone- and even despise them- and still think that some of what they do or say is good.

If you want to see hypocrisy in action- how about the fact that Bolton, like dozens of other appointees, was "the best" and "so reliable" and "just an amazing guy" up until the point where he leaves and decides to start saying things Trump doesn't like. Now he's a "disgruntled ex-employee" who is presumed to be lying solely because what he says isn't flattering to Trump- even though his manuscript was reviewed and approved by the DoJ and there's no obvious motivation for lying- as getting caught lying in the book would end up invalidating the entire book and would only hurt Bolton.

That's what hypocrisy looks like.

[Methais]

I mean the shit trickling out is obviously for headlines. China's in there, turkeys in there, some shit on Ivanka. It's not that there's nothing in there, excerpts have been released.

Chapter 2: "Trump said this about China....YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!!!!!"



If you want to see hypocrisy in action- how about reading my posting history?

This is correct.

[time4fun]

My point is if Bolton felt that what was going on was wrong he absolutely had the opportunity to testify to that under oath. He choose a payday instead. He's just as much part of the corruption as be appears to try to call out

Bolton was blocked from testifying by the White House. Yes he could have chosen to comply with the Congressional subpoena, but no one wants to testify in front of Congress. It's grueling, messy, and it opens you up to all manner of attacks. It's not fun.

And given that his book doesn't focus solely on Ukraine, there's no reason to suspect that testifying would somehow have hurt his book sales. If anything, it would have helped by raising his profile and the fact that he would have been seen reiterating parts of his book under oath and penalty of perjury.

Having said that, I don't know if you've noticed this but when people who have seen Trump in action accuse him of doing horrible things- they're usually true.

[Tgo01]

The criticism he's received on the left has been about actual foreign policy positions and decisions in the past. Not about his level of candor.

Oh shit! Look at this shit right here! I am literally laughing out loud at this. Holy fucking shit.

"Yeah Bolton is a warmonger who hates brown people and Muslims, but he's always struck me as the honest type."

OH MY FUCKING GOD!!

Seran, you got your work cut out for you. time4fun has gone so far retarded that she is now being humorous in her ramblings. Step up your game!

[Tgo01]

Bolton was blocked from testifying by the White House. Yes he could have chosen to comply with the Congressional subpoena, but no one wants to testify in front of Congress. It's grueling, messy, and it opens you up to all manner of attacks. It's not fun.

The hits keep on coming!!

Holy fucking shit.

"Bolton seems to want to do the right thing. He wants to bring down a corrupt politician. But he doesn't want to do it by having to testify, that's grueling and messy! Clearly writing a book where no questions can be asked and no counterpoints can be made is the way to go."

[time4fun]

Or, imagine this, there isn't shit in the book pointing to wrong doing and it is all hype to stimulate sales.

Why would Bolton risk his entire reputation for that?

First, it's not like there isn't already plenty of Trump scandal fonder to discuss, that Bolton would have been witness to. With Trump, there's really no need to make anything up. The truth is generally far worse than fiction.

Secondly, he would never get work anywhere again if he were caught making things up in his book. His current and future job prospects hinge on his credibility, as do his book sales.

The most headache-inducing part of this reflexive need to maintain that Trump isn't a liar- it's the other 100 people who have all said the same things about him who are lying- is that you never seem to even consider what possible motive someone would have for lying about Trump in something like a book or- you know- Congressional testimony. People don't risk their own credibility and professional careers out of spite.

[Tgo01]

Why would Bolton risk his entire reputation for that?

This is 3 in a row now!

I'm loving this shit. Keep posting, time4fun. PC hasn't been this entertaining in a while.

"Why would someone just lie for money and fame? I don't get it!"

[Gelston]

Why would Bolton risk his entire reputation for that?

First, it's not like there isn't already plenty of Trump scandal fonder to discuss, that Bolton would have been witness to. With Trump, there's really no need to make anything up. The truth is generally far worse than fiction.

Secondly, he would never get work anywhere again if he were caught making things up in his book. His current and future job prospects hinge on his credibility, as do his book sales.

The most headache-inducing part of this reflexive need to maintain that Trump isn't a liar- it's the other 100 people who have all said the same things about him who are lying- is that you never seem to even consider what possible motive someone would have for lying about Trump in something like a book or- you know- Congressional testimony. People don't risk their own credibility and professional careers out of spite.

k

[Furryrat]

There is little credibility left in a man who refuses to give his word under oath, yet then makes outlandish claims for personal gain.

Remember this?

https://time.com/5736539/john-bolton-impeachment-testimony/

"Bolton has claimed that he won’t testify for fear of potential legal repercussions from revealing confidential information, even though none of the hearing witnesses has yet to have this issue. In truth, he’s likely more worried about provoking the ire of the Republican Party."

Not so much of a concern when you can make millions doing it.

[Parkbandit]

Absolutely was waiting for this. So when Trump appints an official as highly qualified and offers unending praise, they're heroes. Now the curtain is pulled back and the truth comes out and to the Right Blind he's suddenly a liar, cheater and warmongerer? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

I don't know a single person on these forums who has ever said Bolton is a hero.

If you are looking for hypocrisy, you only need to look in the mirror.

[Tgo01]

I don't know a single person on these forums who has ever said Bolton is a hero.

For real. Shit I don't know of a single person who was praising Bolton or speaking highly of him or anything. He was just kind of there. The only people who made a big deal about him were Democrats who were saying what an awful and nasty person he was, until he decided to write a book that badmouthed Trump.

[Parkbandit]

Bolton was blocked from testifying by the White House. Yes he could have chosen to comply with the Congressional subpoena, but no one wants to testify in front of Congress. It's grueling, messy, and it opens you up to all manner of attacks. It's not fun.

Please tell us about the time you had to do this... or you were an aid to someone who had to do this... because that would be fucking epic.


And given that his book doesn't focus solely on Ukraine, there's no reason to suspect that testifying would somehow have hurt his book sales. If anything, it would have helped by raising his profile and the fact that he would have been seen reiterating parts of his book under oath and penalty of perjury.

Having said that, I don't know if you've noticed this but when people who have seen Trump in action accuse him of doing horrible things- they're usually true.

You are Champion for a reason.

Well the main reason is Backlash stopped posting here.. but still, you have elevated your game in the past couple of weeks and I for one am glad you swallowed your pride and came back.

Thank you for making PC Great Again!

[Seran]

My point is if Bolton felt that what was going on was wrong he absolutely had the opportunity to testify to that under oath. He choose a payday instead. He's just as much part of the corruption as be appears to try to call out

You're leaving out that he held off on testifying for the House pending a court ruling on the Whitehouse's objections and would only testify at the Impeachment Trial under subpoena which was blocked by Senate Republicans. Sooo... Obstruction from a Republican Senate and Administration isn't the same as withholding his juicy bits for a book

[Parkbandit]

Seran, you got your work cut out for you. time4fun has gone so far retarded that she is now being humorous in her ramblings. Step up your game!

Seran doesn't even try anymore. He just seems so lazy, but maybe it's him just admitting defeat and realizing what a futile attempt it would be to out retard time4fun.

I used to thing Seran could be GOAT.. but what we've read from time4fun over the past couple of weeks since The Return has just made you realize how fucking stupid time4fun naturally is.

[Solkern]

This is 3 in a row now!

I'm loving this shit. Keep posting, time4fun. PC hasn't been this entertaining in a while.

"Why would someone just lie for money and fame? I don't get it!"

A lot of people do/did. trump did it himself to get on Forbes.

[Parkbandit]

A lot of people do/did. trump did it himself to get on Forbes.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BeneficialUnlawfulBanteng-size_restricted.gif

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Where did T4F come from anyway? Is it Vif in game?

[Tgo01]

Where did T4F come from anyway? Is it Vif in game?

time4fun has been around for a while, like over a dozen years on this forum but she used a different logon at the time.

Surprisingly she was as batshit insane a dozen years ago as she is now, so at least she's consistent in her craziness, which is actually kind of comforting in a sense, she didn't lose her mind 5 years ago because Hillary lost an election, she lost her mind a long time ago and it just took ~10 years for the rest of the left to become just as crazy as her.

I forget which thread it was now but someone bumped a thread a while back where she was posting in on a different forum name.

[~Rocktar~]

time4fun has been around for a while, like over a dozen years on this forum but she used a different logon at the time.

Surprisingly she was as batshit insane a dozen years ago as she is now, so at least she's consistent in her craziness, which is actually kind of comforting in a sense, she didn't lose her mind 5 years ago because Hillary lost an election, she lost her mind a long time ago and it just took ~10 years for the rest of the left to become just as crazy as her.

I forget which thread it was now but someone bumped a thread a while back where she was posting in on a different forum name.

Remember, she also has 397 PhDs, is an expert in everything and is actively harboring an illegal alien in her family.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

OMG, is it Caramia? I think that was the GM who posted on here right?

[Tgo01]

OMG, is it Caramia? I think that was the GM who posted on here right?

She used to post as Vishra:


As the person who plays Vishra, I'll toss out a few thoughts.

1. If Vish is disturbing to you, the player, I'm a little concerned for you.

2. Vish is specifically transgendered. She identifies as a "she" and not a "he". Part of being transgendered is exposing the disconnect between a gendered body and a gendered sense of self. The juxtaposition betwen looking at Vish and seeing "He" and her ACTs which show "she" is precisely where the RP of a trans character comes into play.

To force Vish to use "he" would mean that Vish sees herself as a "He" who just wears dresses. But her character goes beyond that. I use "She" because when she does things, that's how she sees it.

When people try to fall back on "The system doesn't recognize that", it's really just an excuse to say "I'm uncomfortable with this kind of character". the system DOESN'T support a trans character, so as a player, I have to do other things to get the point across.

And in just 15 trains, Vish has already recieved 7 RPAs. So I know the GMs support her as an example of great roleplay (and I can see with no eg that she is, indeed, a beautifully RPd character)

Vish's player

Hopefully in 16 years time4fun has realized what a bigot she is for using the term "transgendered", everyone knows the correct non-hateful term is "transgender."

[Tgo01]

People, it's only abuse if one subscribes to YOUR particular limited definition of gender.

For those of us who study gender and look at it differently, gender is something you DO, not something you ARE.

This was back when time4fun was just studying gender, she has now graduated and has at least 4 degrees in gender studies.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah I'd probably stop posting with that account too if I was it.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah I'd probably stop posting with that account too if I was it.

This one isn't doing much better though.. she literally said that men can lactate.

[ClydeR]

In light of Trump tweets like the one below, this line of reasoning is getting a lot of attention..


The Administration is taking extraordinary legal measures to suppress his account, with the Justice Department claiming in court this week that it illegally discloses classified information. This legal argument would be impossible to make if the Administration were claiming that Bolton’s allegations are simply untrue. There is no such thing as a classified lie.

More... (https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/john-boltons-epic-score-settling)







https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaxHIlEWoAc3B3n?format=png&name=small

[ClydeR]

Former national security adviser John Bolton alleges in his upcoming 592-page memoir that during President Trump’s 2018 visit to North Korea, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo handed him a note saying of Trump: “He’s so full of sh--.”

More... (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bolton-book-pompeo-trump-full-of-s)

A lot of people with depaved minds and foul vocabularies are jumping to conclusions. Those two blanks could be anything. From A to Z in each blank, there are 676 different possibilities. Show, shag, shot, shoe. It could be anything. Probably "show." There's no need for Trump to fire Pompeo.

[Methais]

Seran doesn't even try anymore. He just seems so lazy, but maybe it's him just admitting defeat and realizing what a futile attempt it would be to out retard time4fun.

I used to thing Seran could be GOAT.. but what we've read from time4fun over the past couple of weeks since The Return has just made you realize how fucking stupid time4fun naturally is.

You should go read through the 2004 Vishra thread that was bumped a day or 2 ago. It's pretty fantastic, and for all the wrong reasons you would expect.

[Parkbandit]

You should go read through the 2004 Vishra thread that was bumped a day or 2 ago. It's pretty fantastic, and for all the wrong reasons you would expect.

Link?

[Methais]

Link?

https://d3nt9em9l1urz8.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/u/d/udf_zelda_ocarina_of_time_1_.jpg (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?7191-The-touch-of-Zelia)

[Seran]

January 20, 2021 will mark the first hours of freedom from the Orange Man. The West Wing will no longer be the bully pulpit for fringe right wing extremism. Trump cronies will be summarily dismissed and replaced with experienced policy experts and wisdom to bring our country back together.

But what about the damage done to our country by a man who'll undoubtedly be named the most corrupt President in history. How will a nation known for its leadership in innovation and leaps forward in scientific progress undo the mistrust Trump heaped on our greatest imumologists, meteorologists, sociologists and others within a dozen federal agencies? How will President Biden convince America that Joe the Plumber isn't more vital to progress than Fauci the Imumologist? That's yet to be quantified.

The following pair of articles go in depth about the damage the Cheeto President did to our scientific progress.

"How Trump damaged science — and why it could take decades to recover"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02800-9

"A four-year timeline of Trump’s impact on science"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02814-3

[Tgo01]

January 20, 2021 will mark the first hours of freedom from the Orange Man.

So weird. You probably live in a state with a Democrat governor who literally told you when you could work, where you could work, who you could visit, and at what stores you could shop at, all the while the "totalitarian" Trump didn't restrict a single fucking right you have, including your freedom of movement, and your "hot take" is you're finally going to have your "freedom" back after Trump leaves office?

You "progressives" are literally the worst kind of scum to have ever existed. It's like your lives are so miserable that you want everyone else to be just as miserable as you are so you seek out people who will help with your goal of making everyone else miserable.

[Seran]

January 20, 2021 will mark the first hours of freedom from the Orange Man. The West Wing will no longer be the bully pulpit for fringe right wing extremism. Trump cronies will be summarily dismissed and replaced with experienced policy experts and wisdom to bring our country back together.

But what about the damage done to our country by a man who'll undoubtedly be named the most corrupt President in history. How will a nation known for its leadership in innovation and leaps forward in scientific progress undo the mistrust Trump heaped on our greatest imumologists, meteorologists, sociologists and others within a dozen federal agencies? How will President Biden convince America that Joe the Plumber isn't more vital to progress than Fauci the Imumologist? That's yet to be quantified.

The following pair of articles go in depth about the damage the Cheeto President did to our scientific progress.

"How Trump damaged science — and why it could take decades to recover"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02800-9

"A four-year timeline of Trump’s impact on science"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02814-3

Quoted for intellectual integrity.

[caelric]

Seran, thank you for bumping this thread, because it led me to the Vishra thread, which I had never seen before. That thread is such a dumpster fire that it makes actual dumpster fires jealous.

[Parkbandit]

January 20, 2021 will mark the first hours of freedom from the Orange Man. The West Wing will no longer be the bully pulpit for fringe right wing extremism. Trump cronies will be summarily dismissed and replaced with experienced policy experts and wisdom to bring our country back together.

But what about the damage done to our country by a man who'll undoubtedly be named the most corrupt President in history. How will a nation known for its leadership in innovation and leaps forward in scientific progress undo the mistrust Trump heaped on our greatest imumologists, meteorologists, sociologists and others within a dozen federal agencies? How will President Biden convince America that Joe the Plumber isn't more vital to progress than Fauci the Imumologist? That's yet to be quantified.

The following pair of articles go in depth about the damage the Cheeto President did to our scientific progress.

"How Trump damaged science — and why it could take decades to recover"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02800-9

"A four-year timeline of Trump’s impact on science"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02814-3

I'm just thankful your 4 years of being so terrified and upset will finally be over and maybe you can become a useful member of society.

I'm dumping Pfizer stock in January since they will see a huge decline of their Xanax brand.

Chin up little fella, you're almost there. Keep it together.

[caelric]

I'm just thankful your 4 years of being so terrified and upset will finally be over and maybe you can become a useful member of society.



Don't worry, when Biden doesn't go as hard left as some of the leftists hoped, there will continue to be people like Seran, time4bhaalizimo, etc.... that will continue to rail against the US.

[Methais]

January 20, 2021 will mark the first hours of freedom from the Orange Man. The West Wing will no longer be the bully pulpit for fringe right wing extremism. Trump cronies will be summarily dismissed and replaced with experienced policy experts and wisdom to bring our country back together.

But what about the damage done to our country by a man who'll undoubtedly be named the most corrupt President in history. How will a nation known for its leadership in innovation and leaps forward in scientific progress undo the mistrust Trump heaped on our greatest imumologists, meteorologists, sociologists and others within a dozen federal agencies? How will President Biden convince America that Joe the Plumber isn't more vital to progress than Fauci the Imumologist? That's yet to be quantified.

The following pair of articles go in depth about the damage the Cheeto President did to our scientific progress.

"How Trump damaged science — and why it could take decades to recover"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02800-9

"A four-year timeline of Trump’s impact on science"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02814-3

https://i.gifer.com/1zYH.gif

[Methais]

Quoted for retarded integrity.

This is correct.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/L8XuphFGqlSfe/200.gif

[Neveragain]

January 20, 2021 will mark the first hours of freedom from the Orange Man. The West Wing will no longer be the bully pulpit for fringe right wing extremism. Trump cronies will be summarily dismissed and replaced with experienced policy experts and wisdom to bring our country back together.

But what about the damage done to our country by a man who'll undoubtedly be named the most corrupt President in history. How will a nation known for its leadership in innovation and leaps forward in scientific progress undo the mistrust Trump heaped on our greatest imumologists, meteorologists, sociologists and others within a dozen federal agencies? How will President Biden convince America that Joe the Plumber isn't more vital to progress than Fauci the Imumologist? That's yet to be quantified.

The following pair of articles go in depth about the damage the Cheeto President did to our scientific progress.

"How Trump damaged science — and why it could take decades to recover"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02800-9

"A four-year timeline of Trump’s impact on science"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02814-3

I'm looking forward to the new wars, Iraq and Afghanistan are becoming rather bland after 20 years. I'm guessing Syria will be first.

[~Rocktar~]

Quoted for intellectual integrity.

Zero. Self. Awareness.

[Seran]

I'm looking forward to the new wars, Iraq and Afghanistan are becoming rather bland after 20 years. I'm guessing Syria will be first.

That's a terrifying thought. What makes you think we'll be invading any other countries? Figured the Bush family got us in enough trouble in the middle east for a lifetime.

[Tgo01]

That's a terrifying thought. What makes you think we'll be invading any other countries?

Because Trump was the first president since...I don’t even know since when, to not get us into any new conflicts.

Even your best bud Obama got us into a few conflicts, pretty sure even more than Bush.

[Seran]

Don't worry, when Biden doesn't go as hard left as some of the leftists hoped, there will continue to be people like Seran, time4bhaalizimo, etc.... that will continue to rail against the US.

I love it when ignorant folks even more naive assumptions. No, I am hopping that Biden doesn't hurtle wildly to the left as all the Bernie Bros would hope. However for people who lick the collective scrotum of the far right, Biden's moderate policies may feel like the hard left.

[caelric]

Sure, l'il buddy, sure.

[Seran]

Because Trump was the first president since...I don’t even know since when, to not get us into any new conflicts.

Even your best bud Obama got us into a few conflicts, pretty sure even more than Bush.

So you must not consider the assassination of Iranian military leaders as being a new conflict, good to know. That Iran has said that the assassinations of its citizens is an act of war must not register on your scales. Clearly Obama's intervention in Syria and Libya is waaaay more drastic than the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, why I don't know, but still this insight into your partisanism is enlightening.

[Methais]

So you must not consider the assassination of Iranian military leaders as being a new conflict, good to know. That Iran has said that the assassinations of its citizens is an act of war must not register on your scales. Clearly Obama's intervention in Syria and Libya is waaaay more drastic than the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, why I don't know, but still this insight into your partisanism is enlightening.

https://i.imgflip.com/4oil4s.jpg

[Neveragain]

That's a terrifying thought. What makes you think we'll be invading any other countries? Figured the Bush family got us in enough trouble in the middle east for a lifetime.

What makes me think we will be invading other countries?

Because the same dishonest media is already talking about military action with a Biden administration and he has not even taken the oath yet.

[Parkbandit]

I love it when ignorant folks even more naive assumptions. No, I am hopping that Biden doesn't hurtle wildly to the left as all the Bernie Bros would hope. However for people who lick the collective scrotum of the far right, Biden's moderate policies may feel like the hard left.

Fucking faggots.

Right?

[Parkbandit]

That's a terrifying thought.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/rPy4AFVJbyvQI/200.gif

[Neveragain]

So you must not consider the assassination of Iranian military leaders as being a new conflict, good to know. That Iran has said that the assassinations of its citizens is an act of war must not register on your scales. Clearly Obama's intervention in Syria and Libya is waaaay more drastic than the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, why I don't know, but still this insight into your partisanism is enlightening.

"That Iran has said that the assassinations of its citizens is an act of war must not register on your scales."

Thanks for the reminder: Remember when you and the other moonbats said Trump would start WW3 because we killed an Iranian mass murderer and how Trump was literally Hitler for killing the good guy Iranian mass murderer?

https://i.imgflip.com/3s8c4e.png

[Taernath]

January 20, 2021 will mark the first hours of freedom from the Orange Man. The West Wing will no longer be the bully pulpit for fringe right wing extremism. Trump cronies will be summarily dismissed and replaced with experienced policy experts and wisdom to bring our country back together.

I think the thing I'm most looking forward to is him catching a Twitter ban shortly after being replaced, and the absolute meltdown his cultists will have.

[Gelston]

I think the thing I'm most looking forward to is him catching a Twitter ban shortly after being replaced, and the absolute meltdown his cultists will have.

They'll just go to Parlar, where they claim it is 100% free speech, but will ban you if you are anything but far right.

[Methais]

I think the thing I'm most looking forward to is him catching a Twitter ban shortly after being replaced, and the absolute meltdown his cultists will have.

Ah yes, silence the opposition. Very American.


They'll just go to Parlar, where they claim it is 100% free speech, but will ban you if you are anything but far right.

Ah yes, silence the opposition. Very American.

[Taernath]

Ah yes, silence the opposition. Very American.

He violates their TOS regularly and they made an exception for heads of state, which is the only reason he's not banned now. Hardly "silencing".

[Seran]

"That Iran has said that the assassinations of its citizens is an act of war must not register on your scales."

Thanks for the reminder: Remember when you and the other moonbats said Trump would start WW3 because we killed an Iranian mass murderer and how Trump was literally Hitler for killing the good guy Iranian mass murderer?

Moonbats gave me a good chuckle, thanks. So to parse your replies, the media (dun dun duuuuun) isn't the body that declares wars, so I don't think the talking heads on Fox on the right or.. everyone else on the left will be deciding foreign policy objectives.

That being said, the fact Iran didn't immediately invade Iraq, take over half of Syria or launch at Israel is more restraint and sound judgment on their part. I wouldn't give Trump credit for avoiding all out war in the ME for his airstrikes as sound judgment anymore than I laud his cozying up to North Korea or Russia as being the reason both are only taking provocative action in lieu of attacking.

[Seran]

They'll just go to Parlar, where they claim it is 100% free speech, but will ban you if you are anything but far right.

They may claim that, but they censor like anyone else.

[Wrathbringer]

I'm a massive douchecopter.

This is correct.

[Seran]

Ah yes, silence the opposition. Very American.



Ah yes, silence the opposition. Very American.

Since when has Twitter been the opposition? Their TOS defines their policies, not personal judgment on the radicalism of the far right.

[Parkbandit]

They'll just go to Parlar, where they claim it is 100% free speech, but will ban you if you are anything but far right.

So, the same as Twitter, except the polar opposite.

Both sides need their echo chambers. Hopefully, any and all protections are taken away from these social media companies and we can let them be the publishers they've always been.

[Parkbandit]

He violates their TOS regularly and they made an exception for heads of state, which is the only reason he's not banned now. Hardly "silencing".

Bro.. Twitter/Facebook/TikTok/Parler are all jokes and their TOS is only enforced when it goes against what bias they want to project.

[Gelston]

So, the same as Twitter, except the polar opposite.

Both sides need their echo chambers. Hopefully, any and all protections are taken away from these social media companies and we can let them be the publishers they've always been.

Parlar is more strict than Twitter. Buddy of mine went over to check it out, he has been a Republican since birth, basically. He posted a .gov link disproving something and he got banned for trolling.

[Tgo01]

So you must not consider the assassination of Iranian military leaders as being a new conflict, good to know.

Do you see us pouring troops into Iran or bombing Iran? That’s the answer to your question. Shit we didn’t even bomb the guy in Iran.

I’m sure Iran is threatening war hoping Biden will be a little pussy and rush to drop all sanctions against Iran and start dropping pallets of cash on them like Obama did so they can use the money to conduct more terror missions against brown people in the Middle East and you can rest easy knowing brown people are now safer under Biden.

[Methais]

Since when has Twitter been the opposition? Their TOS defines their policies, not personal judgment on the radicalism of the far right.

I didn't say Twitter was the opposition retard. But Trump is clearly their "opposition."

Dumbass. Reading is hard.

[Seran]

Do you see us pouring troops into Iran or bombing Iran? That’s the answer to your question. Shit we didn’t even bomb the guy in Iran.

I’m sure Iran is threatening war hoping Biden will be a little pussy and rush to drop all sanctions against Iran and start dropping pallets of cash on them like Obama did so they can use the money to conduct more terror missions against brown people in the Middle East and you can rest easy knowing brown people are now safer under Biden.

I'd be pleased to sleep better knowing all people's who aren't our enemies are safer under President Biden, which will starting fresh with our decades old allies in reaffirming our mutual defense treaties and good relations commitment. Perhaps even you can get behind security for our country by engaging allies instead of adversaries like Russia and North Korea.

I find it disconcerting that you think assassinations are different whether on the soil of their country of origin or another. Again, diplomacy isn't about subvertive action and hoping it doesn't blow up in your face, nor is it about unilaterally dropping out of peace agreements without the support of allies and without any viable replacement or strategy. This President has been all about destroying relationships with our allies, destroying our faith in science and signaling our willingness to get in bed with our foes. Gotta ask, how do you not see how amazingly bad that is

[Neveragain]

Moonbats gave me a good chuckle, thanks. So to parse your replies, the media (dun dun duuuuun) isn't the body that declares wars, so I don't think the talking heads on Fox on the right or.. everyone else on the left will be deciding foreign policy objectives.

That being said, the fact Iran didn't immediately invade Iraq, take over half of Syria or launch at Israel is more restraint and sound judgment on their part. I wouldn't give Trump credit for avoiding all out war in the ME for his airstrikes as sound judgment anymore than I laud his cozying up to North Korea or Russia as being the reason both are only taking provocative action in lieu of attacking.

You're dumb as fuck all.

"Cozying up to North Korea"

Democrat slang for: For the first time since the Korean war and American President stepped foot on N. Korean soil and conducted peace talks. N. Korea has not tested a nuclear weapon since, FUUUUCK!

"Cozying up to Russia"

Democrat slang for: Hey! That's our reset button!

[Neveragain]

I'd be pleased to sleep better knowing all people's who aren't our enemies are safer under President Biden, which will starting fresh with our decades old allies in reaffirming our mutual defense treaties and good relations commitment. Perhaps even you can get behind security for our country by engaging allies instead of adversaries like Russia and North Korea.

I find it disconcerting that you think assassinations are different whether on the soil of their country of origin or another. Again, diplomacy isn't about subvertive action and hoping it doesn't blow up in your face, nor is it about unilaterally dropping out of peace agreements without the support of allies and without any viable replacement or strategy. This President has been all about destroying relationships with our allies, destroying our faith in science and signaling our willingness to get in bed with our foes. Gotta ask, how do you not see how amazingly bad that is

"by engaging allies instead of adversaries like Russia and North Korea."

There's a reason Jesus hung out with prostitutes and thieves, sadly, our education system has failed you.

[Seran]

You're dumb as fuck all.

"Cozying up to North Korea"

Democrat slang for: For the first time since the Korean war and American President stepped foot on N. Korean soil and conducted peace talks. N. Korea has not tested a nuclear weapon since, FUUUUCK!

"Cozying up to Russia"

Democrat slang for: Hey! That's our reset button!

President tries to give relief to North Korea whose tested multiple nuclear devices, North Korea makes a statement that its capitulating.

President withdraws from multinational agreement with Iran, who hasn't tested any nuclear weapons, leaving allies holding the bag. Then assassinates its military personnel.

What kind of leadership do you call this? Leadership by Hypocrisy?


January 1, 2020 - North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said he sees no reason to continue his self-imposed moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests, warning the world will soon see "a new strategic weapon" unveiled by his country in the near future.

However, in the comments published Wednesday, Kim also appeared to leave the door open to diplomacy, suggesting that tests would only resume if Washington did not change its policies.


North Korea has suspended nuclear and intercontinental ballistic missile tests since an unprecedented flurry of activity in 2017. But during that time, negotiations that Washington hoped would lead to Kim giving up his nuclear arsenal have fallen apart.

In the comments released Wednesday, Kim complained that his country's suspension of nuclear and ballistic missile tests had been repaid by the U.S. holding military drills with South Korea and imposing more sanctions on his isolated country.

[Seran]

"by engaging allies instead of adversaries like Russia and North Korea."

There's a reason Jesus hung out with prostitutes and thieves, sadly, our education system has failed you.

You wouldn't be the first whose confused Trump and Jesus. Though I disagree that Trump has any similarities to our Savior

[Neveragain]

You wouldn't be the first whose confused Trump and Jesus. Though I disagree that Trump has any similarities to our Savior

Why did Jesus hang out with prostitutes and thieves?

If you can answer that correctly you wouldn't be questioning why the president met with adversaries instead of allies.

I mean damn, we could have free health care too if the American taxpayer wasn't footing the bill for Europe's defense. Granted the world is probably a safer place when Europeans aren't killing each other, of course that's why we are America in the first place.

[Tgo01]

I'd be pleased to sleep better knowing all people's who aren't our enemies are safer under President Biden, which will starting fresh with our decades old allies in reaffirming our mutual defense treaties

I must have missed all of those countries who removed themselves from our mutual defense treaties. Can you name just one? Because that country would have to be the dumbest country on the planet to remove themselves from a mutual defense treaty from the most powerful country in the world with the strongest military in the world.

You are so dumb I wonder why I even bother sometimes.

Also you now fully admit Trump didn't involve us in any new conflicts right? Just want to make sure we're all on the same page.

[Taernath]

I mean damn, we could have free health care too if the American taxpayer wasn't footing the bill for Europe's defense.

Yeah, I'm sure social welfare programs were the first place Trump was going to put that money.

[Methais]

I'd be pleased to sleep better knowing all people's who aren't our enemies are safer under President Biden, which will starting fresh with our decades old allies in reaffirming our mutual defense treaties and good relations commitment. Perhaps even you can get behind security for our country by engaging allies instead of adversaries like Russia and North Korea.

I find it disconcerting that you think assassinations are different whether on the soil of their country of origin or another. Again, diplomacy isn't about subvertive action and hoping it doesn't blow up in your face, nor is it about unilaterally dropping out of peace agreements without the support of allies and without any viable replacement or strategy. This President has been all about destroying relationships with our allies, destroying our faith in science and signaling our willingness to get in bed with our foes. Gotta ask, how do you not see how amazingly bad that is

2/10

[~Rocktar~]

That's a terrifying thought. What makes you think we'll be invading any other countries? Figured the Bush family got us in enough trouble in the middle east for a lifetime.

Simple, a Democrat might be in charge so the odds are way better than 50%.

[Seran]

Simple, a Democrat might be in charge so the odds are way better than 50%.

And you're basing it off of what.. The last two Iraqi wars and Afghanistan war declaration being declared by such prominent Demo.. Republicans

[Seran]

I must have missed all of those countries who removed themselves from our mutual defense treaties. Can you name just one? Because that country would have to be the dumbest country on the planet to remove themselves from a mutual defense treaty from the most powerful country in the world with the strongest military in the world.

You are so dumb I wonder why I even bother sometimes.

Also you now fully admit Trump didn't involve us in any new conflicts right? Just want to make sure we're all on the same page.

I'm not sure if you're naive, or just overlooking the obvious in order to solidify the crumbling stance you've taken. A treaty is only as effective as its participants are willing to honor it. You should have an idea of how tenuous this is not only from your orange hero removing us from a bunch of them during his term.

Treaty of Versailles
Geneva Convention Covenants
Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty
Land Mine Ban
International Criminal Court Treaty
Kyoto Accord
Paris Accord
NAFTA
US Commission on Civil Rights - Treaty on Equal Rights of Women
Open Skies Treaty
Dozens, potentially hundreds of Native American treaties, accords and agreements

[Taernath]

Simple, a Democrat might be in charge so the odds are way better than 50%.

96% of Republican representatives and 99% of Republican senators voted to invade Iraq.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your fee fees though.

[caelric]

96% of Republican representatives and 99% of Republican senators voted to invade Iraq.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your fee fees though.

So did a whole lot of Democrats.

[~Rocktar~]

And you're basing it off of what.. The last two Iraqi wars and Afghanistan war declaration being declared by such prominent Demo.. Republicans

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Under Clinton, we had bombing Iraq, war in Bosnia, bombing Iraq again, bombing in Afghanistan and Sudan, then we went into Yugoslavia. Under Obama we continued to bomb the shit out of civilians, Sudan, Yemen, Syria and in Africa. Before that, Carter had his failed "rescue" attempt in Iran, interventions in Africa and the start of conflict in Afghanistan. Before that was Lyndon Johnson with the Vietnam war, going into the Dominican Republic, aggravated the DMZ in Korea and got the USS Pueblo captured. And Kennedy who got us started in Vietnam, was responsible for the Bay of Pigs.

Meanwhile, Trump is about the first to pull us out of places, or try too and not to go after any major military foreign policy shit show.

So much for your whataboutism.

Source: https://www.historyguy.com/wars_by_president.htm

[caelric]

Also of note, in Democratic administrations, the military funding is typically cut, and the deployments are increased. I know this from personal experience. While I did deploy twice to Iraq during Bush II, I spent a LOT more time dep0loyed during the Clinton era, but the military was also undergoing a significant drawdown. Also went to AFG twice during Obama, but I though he was going to get us out of AFG?

[Taernath]

So did a whole lot of Democrats.

39% and 58% is a far cry from 96% and 99%.

Republicans are not an anti-war party, no matter how much they've tried to rebrand themselves over the past few years.

[Methais]

39% and 58% is a far cry from 96% and 99%.

Republicans are not an anti-war party, no matter how much they've tried to rebrand themselves over the past few years.

What are your thoughts about Trump being the most anti-war President in recent times though?

[Taernath]

What are your thoughts about Trump being the most anti-war President in recent times though?

The "anti war" president that was constantly on Twitter bragging about the size of his nuclear button, how he would totally destroy North Korea and Iran, planned and carried out assassinations of foreign leaders, and surrounded himself with the architects of the War On Terror? That one?

We are incredibly lucky none of that retarded brinksmanship and posturing escalated.

[Methais]

The "anti war" president that was constantly on Twitter bragging about the size of his nuclear button, how he would totally destroy North Korea and Iran, planned and carried out assassinations of foreign leaders, and surrounded himself with the architects of the War On Terror? That one?

We are incredibly lucky none of that retarded brinksmanship and posturing escalated.

I'm talking about actual wars/conflicts started, not what was said on Twitter.

You know, words vs. actual actions.

[Parkbandit]

The "anti war" president that was constantly on Twitter bragging about the size of his nuclear button, how he would totally destroy North Korea and Iran, planned and carried out assassinations of foreign leaders, and surrounded himself with the architects of the War On Terror? That one?

We are incredibly lucky none of that retarded brinksmanship and posturing escalated.

Some countries aren't as sensitive and dumb to meanie head words like you are.

"Why did you just attack the US?"

"DID YOU SEE WHAT THEIR PRESIDENT SAID ON TWITTER TODAY!?!?!?!??!?"

[Back]

Some countries aren't as sensitive and dumb to meanie head words like you are.

"Why did you just attack the US?"

"DID YOU SEE WHAT THEIR PRESIDENT SAID ON TWITTER TODAY!?!?!?!??!?"

Oh, thats a sound foreign policy. Say stupid insulting shit to people then when they attack say J/K?

I know thats your whole modus operadi behind the safety of a computer screen but its no way to run global diplomacy.

[Neveragain]

Oh, thats a sound foreign policy.

https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2015/11/tanden2-540x360.png?auto=compress%2Cformat&q=90

That's the foreign policy you just elected.

[Alfster]

I'm talking about actual wars/conflicts started, not what was said on Twitter.

You know, words vs. actual actions.

Removed 1000 troops from syria, turned around and deployed 2000 troops to saudi arabia.

Counter insurgency campaigns in africa inceased troops in 2017, then agreed to cut troops by 10% by 2022. So the reduction is less than the increase.

By March of 2019 he had launched more drone strikes than obama did in two terms.


So again, his actions don't really call out anti war

[Methais]

Oh, thats a sound foreign policy. Say stupid insulting shit to people then when they attack say J/K?

I know thats your whole modus operadi behind the safety of a computer screen but its no way to run global diplomacy.

I don't know how you manage to keep getting more and more stupid by the day without hitting some sort of cap, but you do.

[Seran]

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Under Clinton, we had bombing Iraq, war in Bosnia, bombing Iraq again, bombing in Afghanistan and Sudan, then we went into Yugoslavia. Under Obama we continued to bomb the shit out of civilians, Sudan, Yemen, Syria and in Africa. Before that, Carter had his failed "rescue" attempt in Iran, interventions in Africa and the start of conflict in Afghanistan. Before that was Lyndon Johnson with the Vietnam war, going into the Dominican Republic, aggravated the DMZ in Korea and got the USS Pueblo captured. And Kennedy who got us started in Vietnam, was responsible for the Bay of Pigs.

Meanwhile, Trump is about the first to pull us out of places, or try too and not to go after any major military foreign policy shit show.

So much for your whataboutism.

Source: https://www.historyguy.com/wars_by_president.htm

And you're counting what, the number of entries under the list? What is anecdotal about facts? Here are some for you:

Clinton: Haiti 20,000
Bosnia 32,000
Kosovo 7,000

Bush: Iraq 160,000
Afghanistan 90,000
Libya - Beginning of operations 24 personnel

So let's look at the numbers, military spending shrank under Clinton because the draw down from Desert Storm no longer required massive outlays, but he committed forces to the joint operations with Nato in former Yugoslavia. That pesky ethnic cleansing!

Under President Bush, we commuted at the height of his tenure, 90,000 troops into Afghanistan to root out the terrorists from their hidey holes. Most of which was bolstering Afghan security forces, which strangely enough didn't want to actually help. Meanwhile, with Iraqi oil on the line and his father's legacy on the line, Bush used false pretenses to invade Iraq... again, committing 160,000+ plus troops to secure Saddam.

So.. Hundreds of millions of dollars spent under Clinton for operations he initiated for tens of thousands of troops.

And trillions of dollars spent under Bush for operations he initiated, for the hundreds of thousands he deployed under wars he declared.

SO YEAH, absolutely no comparison.

[Seran]

Also of note, in Democratic administrations, the military funding is typically cut, and the deployments are increased. I know this from personal experience. While I did deploy twice to Iraq during Bush II, I spent a LOT more time dep0loyed during the Clinton era, but the military was also undergoing a significant drawdown. Also went to AFG twice during Obama, but I though he was going to get us out of AFG?

Thank you for your service.

[caelric]

I don't want your thanks. I want idiot liberals like yourself to quit cutting military funding (which leads to less training, which leads to actual deaths) while at the same time increasing our global commitments. Fortunately, I'm retired from active duty now, so I won't have to directly deal with the increased deployments under the Biden administration (especially with people like Neera Tanden as part of his staff), but I do still have ties to the community, and I don't want to see friends killed due to under funding and over-commitment like happened during the Obama/Biden administration.

[Seran]

I don't want your thanks. I want idiot liberals like yourself to quit cutting military funding (which leads to less training, which leads to actual deaths) while at the same time increasing our global commitments. Fortunately, I'm retired from active duty now, so I won't have to directly deal with the increased deployments under the Biden administration (especially with people like Neera Tanden as part of his staff), but I do still have ties to the community, and I don't want to see friends killed due to under funding and over-commitment like happened during the Obama/Biden administration.

Alright, so let's take a look at the reality of the situation then. You signed up for military service, your friends signed up for military service despite knowing full well the risks involved. You go where your commanders send you, regardless of the policy involved or your feelings about the levels of funding which still grossly exceeded the per serviceman funding during the Korean and Vietnam wars. So, while I still thank you for your service despite your rather cock-eyed political perspective. Your assumptions about deployments under Biden are pure speculation at best, naive at worst and yet you still got exactly what you signed up for. Military service.

[caelric]

So, while I still thank you for your service

Take your thanks and shove them up your ass.


Your assumptions about deployments under Biden are pure speculation at best, naive at worst

Not speculation at all. Biden has a proven track record as VP, and as a long term politician, of cutting military funding and over-using the military.

Bottom line: go fuck yourself.

[Neveragain]

Alright, so let's take a look at the reality of the situation then. You signed up for military service, your friends signed up for military service despite knowing full well the risks involved. You go where your commanders send you, regardless of the policy involved or your feelings about the levels of funding which still grossly exceeded the per serviceman funding during the Korean and Vietnam wars. So, while I still thank you for your service despite your rather cock-eyed political perspective. Your assumptions about deployments under Biden are pure speculation at best, naive at worst and yet you still got exactly what you signed up for. Military service.

Soooo...basically the "Thank you for your service" is just bullshit virtue signaling to make you feel good.

And then to top it off you use the "They were just following orders when they tried to eradicate the Jews. They were good soldiers!"

Just admit you were duped into electing war criminals.

"Your assumptions about deployments under Biden are pure speculation at best."

Sounds like denial to me, Richard.

[Seran]

Take your thanks and shove them up your ass.



Not speculation at all. Biden has a proven track record as VP, and as a long term politician, of cutting military funding and over-using the military.

Bottom line: go fuck yourself.

He has absolutely no track record of that because he had absolutely no control of the military. So, read more, get therapy for your anger issues and at the end of the day remember to change your panties because they seem to be in an awful twist.

[Tgo01]

I'm not sure if you're naive, or just overlooking the obvious in order to solidify the crumbling stance you've taken. A treaty is only as effective as its participants are willing to honor it. You should have an idea of how tenuous this is not only from your orange hero removing us from a bunch of them during his term.

Treaty of Versailles
Geneva Convention Covenants
Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty
Land Mine Ban
International Criminal Court Treaty
Kyoto Accord
Paris Accord
NAFTA
US Commission on Civil Rights - Treaty on Equal Rights of Women
Open Skies Treaty
Dozens, potentially hundreds of Native American treaties, accords and agreements

Paris accord and Open Skies Treaty were mutual defense agreements? Holy shit you’re dumb.

[caelric]

He has absolutely no track record of that because he had absolutely no control of the military. So, read more, get therapy for your anger issues and at the end of the day remember to change your panties because they seem to be in an awful twist.

Holy shit. He was a Senator from 1973 to 2009 (where he voted for use of force multiple times, including during Clinton, as well as voting for use of force in Iraq), was Obama's VP for 8 years, and yet he has no track record?

You are as stupid as Back. No, I take that back; you are as fucktarded as Back.

ETA: I think I can speak for the vast majority of service members, both current and former, when I say you can take your thanks and shove them so far up your ass they blow your brains out.

[Tgo01]

The "anti war" president that was constantly on Twitter bragging about the size of his nuclear button, how he would totally destroy North Korea and Iran, planned and carried out assassinations of foreign leaders, and surrounded himself with the architects of the War On Terror? That one?

We are incredibly lucky none of that retarded brinksmanship and posturing escalated.

You know Trump was the least war mongering president in recent history if the best his detractors can do is point to dumb shit he said on Twitter as “proof” he was a war monger.

Also which foreign leaders did Trump assassinate again? Can you name one?

[Neveragain]

Quick overview of the "Totalitarian Trump" thread.

Democrats: Trump is literally Hitler!

also Democrats:

We elected a lifer politician that passed a racist crime bill, who told black people they are not black unless they vote for him. Then Democrats picked a V.P. that knowingly imprisoned innocent black men to advance her career record. Now to make it even better Democrats pick a person that wants to bomb Brown people for their oil, against the will of the American people, so we don't have to cut medicade.

I should also add the Sec. treasury Biden has picked that was a former Federal Reserve chairwoman. So much for Elizabeth Warren. LMFAO

Carry on.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e6f391a3294cc90b7617688d75cf6ce0/tenor.gif?itemid=11553550

[Taernath]

Holy shit. He was a Senator from 1973 to 2009 (where he voted for use of force multiple times, including during Clinton, as well as voting for use of force in Iraq), was Obama's VP for 8 years, and yet he has no track record?

You are as stupid as Back. No, I take that back; you are as fucktarded as Back.

ETA: I think I can speak for the vast majority of service members, both current and former, when I say you can take your thanks and shove them so far up your ass they blow your brains out.

Thank you for your service you big fucking baby.

[caelric]

Thank you for your service you big fucking baby.

Sincerely, I hope you die in a fire.

[Taernath]

Sincerely, I hope you die in a fire.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEdv07JVXwhImYGWc/giphy.gif

And I sincerely hope you get your issues worked out.

[Seran]

Sincerely, I hope you die in a fire.

It's shit like this that makes me believe PTSD therapy should be mandatory following discharge. At the very least we might be able to cut down on partner abuse and police brutality involving former service men and women. So much misguided rage

[Alfster]

You know Trump was the least war mongering president in recent history if the best his detractors can do is point to dumb shit he said on Twitter as “proof” he was a war monger.

Also which foreign leaders did Trump assassinate again? Can you name one?

Increasing troops in africa, saudi arabia, and an increase in drone strikes is proof he isn't anti war.

And getting rid of accountability in Yemen is an interesting one too.

[Tgo01]

Increasing troops in africa, saudi arabia, and an increase in drone strikes is proof he isn't anti war.

And getting rid of accountability in Yemen is an interesting one too.

"Increase" in drone strikes? Over Obama? You're a funny man.

So his troop draw downs in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan in addition to not getting us involved in a new conflict (a first for a US president since...shit ever? I don't even know) isn't good enough for you? No? He didn't completely pull US troops out of each and every single country so therefore he's a war monger?

Fuck you. No seriously just fuck you already. You're the absolute worst.

[Neveragain]

It's shit like this that makes me believe PTSD therapy should be mandatory following discharge. At the very least we might be able to cut down on partner abuse and police brutality involving former service men and women. So much misguided rage

Or, you know, don't elect war criminals that don't mind sacrificing American lives to kill brown people for oil.

Too late for that though, your hate will kill thousands. Great job!

[RichardCranium]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEdv07JVXwhImYGWc/giphy.gif

And I sincerely hope you get your issues worked out.

TYFYSYBFB

[Alashir]

I don't want your thanks. I want idiot liberals like yourself to quit cutting military funding (which leads to less training, which leads to actual deaths) while at the same time increasing our global commitments. Fortunately, I'm retired from active duty now, so I won't have to directly deal with the increased deployments under the Biden administration (especially with people like Neera Tanden as part of his staff), but I do still have ties to the community, and I don't want to see friends killed due to under funding and over-commitment like happened during the Obama/Biden administration.

I mean, as a former service member myself, please don't take this the wrong way but you sir are a ding dong

[caelric]

I mean, as a former service member myself, please don't take this the wrong way but you sir are a ding dong

Can you deny any of what I said?

[Alashir]

Can you deny any of what I said?

Haranguing someone who thanked you and linking increased fatalities to a lack of military funding? Yes, I'd disagree with those stances.

[caelric]

Haranguing someone who thanked you and linking increased fatalities to a lack of military funding? Yes, I'd disagree with those stances.

His thanks was clearly not sincere, based on plenty of other things he has posted.

As for increased fatalities due to lack of funding? Well, yeah. There have been plenty of studies that have shown that the US military has put off needed maintenance and training due to lack of funding, and that this has directly led to increased injuries and deaths. I'm not going to claim that the US military is a good steward of the funds it gets, but in this case there is a very clear cause and effect.

[Alashir]

His thanks was clearly not sincere, based on plenty of other things he has posted.

As for increased fatalities due to lack of funding? Well, yeah. There have been plenty of studies that have shown that the US military has put off needed maintenance and training due to lack of funding, and that this has directly led to increased injuries and deaths. I'm not going to claim that the US military is a good steward of the funds it gets, but in this case there is a very clear cause and effect.

You and I have both seen fields of valuable <insert supplies here> that were misued/wasted/forgotten etc. The military not being a good steward of funds is one of many issues but total amount of resources allocated for military use is not.

[caelric]

total amount of resources allocated for military use is not.

Except it is. Look at how much aviation incidents have increased during sequestration, for just one example.

[Alashir]

Except it is. Look at how much aviation incidents have increased during sequestration, for just one example.

Youre smart enough to know that correlation isn't causation but then go cognitive dissonance when it comes to the service. Unpacking anything is almost always multifactorial and this is doubly true for the military.

[caelric]

Ok, correlation isn't causation, correct, but there was a direct correlation with increased aviation accidents and the decreased funding during sequestration. Numerous studies have shown that the increased accidents were directly due to deecreased training, and that the decreased training was due to decreased budgets.

I'm not sure how you get a more direct cause and effect than that.

[Alashir]

Ok, correlation isn't causation, correct, but there was a direct correlation with increased aviation accidents and the decreased funding during sequestration. Numerous studies have shown that the increased accidents were directly due to deecreased training, and that the decreased training was due to decreased budgets.

I'm not sure how you get a more direct cause and effect than that.

I can't find anything related to sequestration leading to an increase in aviation fatalities. Any sources?

[Neveragain]

I can't find anything related to sequestration leading to an increase in aviation fatalities. Any sources?

https://nypost.com/2018/04/10/fatal-military-crashes-surged-due-to-sequestration-cuts-report/

Like the very first thing that google listed.....you do know how to use google?


Deadly crashes involving military aircraft have surged nearly 40 percent in wake of massive congressional budget cuts, a new report has found.

The spike occurred between 2013 – when the cuts were implemented during the sequestration — and 2017 and involved manned fighter, bomber, helicopter and cargo warplanes, according to the Military Times.

At least 133 service members were killed during that span.

Accident rates were doubled for some aircraft, including the Navy and Marine Corps’ F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets.

The Military Times said the budget cuts, as well as an increase in flight hours despite a shortage of pilots, were behind the stunning uptick.

[caelric]

I can't find anything related to sequestration leading to an increase in aviation fatalities. Any sources?

I mean, a simple google would have show plenty of results.

https://www.businessinsider.com/connection-between-defense-cuts-military-aviation-accidents-2018-4

https://nypost.com/2018/04/10/fatal-military-crashes-surged-due-to-sequestration-cuts-report/

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/11/601630170/why-the-number-of-military-aviation-accidents-has-sharply-increased

It's clear you aren't even trying here, when it was that simple.


There's also studies that have shown that aviation incidents started getting back on the downslope and declining in number in 2019, as the backlog of maintenance was finally taken care of, and amount of training was increased as the defense budgets increased during the Trump years. But Orange Man Bad, I know, I know.

[Alashir]

I mean, a simple google would have show plenty of results.

https://www.businessinsider.com/connection-between-defense-cuts-military-aviation-accidents-2018-4

https://nypost.com/2018/04/10/fatal-military-crashes-surged-due-to-sequestration-cuts-report/

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/11/601630170/why-the-number-of-military-aviation-accidents-has-sharply-increased

It's clear you aren't even trying here, when it was that simple.


There's also studies that have shown that aviation incidents started getting back on the downslope and declining in number in 2019, as the backlog of maintenance was finally taken care of, and amount of training was increased as the defense budgets increased during the Trump years. But Orange Man Bad, I know, I know.

:( there's a few paragraphs from a reporter for the military times that doesn't link any sources but is referenced in all 3 articles. Nypost and business insider aren't exactly known for their high quality and unbiased reporting.

It's frustratingly obvious that rational discourse is not possible in this instance so kudos to duping me into trying.

[caelric]

You: provide sources!

Me: here you go

You: nuh uh, fake news!

Me: **facepalm**

[caelric]

Here's the initial investigative report from Military Times

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/04/08/the-death-toll-for-rising-aviation-accidents-133-troops-killed-in-five-years/

I mean, what more proof do you need?