WSJ: GOP Activist Who Sought Clinton Emails Cited Trump Campaign Officials

[time4fun]

So WSJ has put its latest articles behind a pay wall, so I will give you the entire articles, starting with tonight's article:

TL;DR WSJ reported yesterday that a team of Americans put together by a GOP Operative was working to get what it believed were stolen Clinton emails and to get them to, among other people, Michael Flynn. This evening WSJ is now also reporting that the recruiting email that the Operative used listed several high ranking Trump campaign advisers as being involved: Kellyanne Conway, Steve Bannon, and more.

GOP Activist Who Sought Clinton Emails Cited Trump Campaign Officials (https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-activist-who-sought-clinton-emails-cited-trump-campaign-officials-1498872923)


WASHINGTON—A longtime Republican activist who led an operation hoping to obtain Hillary Clinton emails from hackers listed senior members of the Trump campaign, including some who now serve as top aides in the White House, in a recruitment document for his effort.

The activist, Peter W. Smith, named the officials in a section of the document marked “Trump Campaign.” The document was dated Sept. 7, 2016. That was around the time Mr. Smith said he started his search for 33,000 emails Mrs. Clinton deleted from the private server she used for official business while secretary of state. She said the deleted emails concerned personal matters. She turned over tens of thousands of other emails to the State Department.

As reported Thursday by The Wall Street Journal, Mr. Smith and people he recruited to his effort theorized the deleted emails might have been stolen by hackers and might contain matters that were politically damaging. He and his associates said they were in touch with several groups of hackers, including two from Russia they suspected were tied to the Moscow government, in a bid to find any stolen emails and potentially hurt Mrs. Clinton’s prospects.

Mr. Smith’s purpose in listing the officials isn’t clear. There is no indication in the document that he sought or received any coordination from the campaign officials or the campaign in general.

Mr. Smith died in mid-May at age 81, about 10 days after he spoke to the Journal. He said he operated independently of the Trump campaign.

Officials identified in the document include Steve Bannon, now chief strategist for President Donald Trump; Kellyanne Conway, former campaign manager and now White House counselor; Sam Clovis, a policy adviser to the Trump campaign and now a senior adviser at the Agriculture Department; and retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, who was a campaign adviser and briefly was national security adviser in the Trump administration.

Mr. Bannon said he never met with Mr. Smith or anyone affiliated with a limited-liability company, KLS Research LLC, that the document said had been established for its mission. “Never heard of KLS Research or Peter Smith,” Mr. Bannon said.

Ms. Conway said she knew Mr. Smith from Republican politics but hadn’t spoken to him in years. “I never met with him” during the campaign, Ms. Conway said. “There were no calls, no meetings, no nothing.”

The White House didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. Neither did the Agriculture Department, Mr. Clovis’s employer.

Mr. Flynn, his consulting firm Flynn Intel Group and his son Michael G. Flynn, who was chief of staff at Flynn Intel, were cited more extensively as Mr. Smith sought to recruit researchers, as well as in documents related to the effort that have been described to the Journal. Neither Mr. Flynn nor his son responded to requests for comment.

The names of the other campaign officials haven’t surfaced in connection with Mr. Smith’s work except in the document, which the Journal reviewed on Friday.

The document section that lists campaign officials is followed by the words, “in coordination to the extent permitted as an independent expenditure.”—a possible reference to campaign strictures imposed by campaign finance and disclosure laws.


The document was included in a package of opposition research Mr. Smith shared through an encrypted email with Matt Tait, a cybersecurity expert who once worked for British intelligence. Mr. Tait said he was approached last summer by Mr. Smith, who wanted him to help verify whether emails offered to the group by hackers came from Mrs. Clinton’s private serve.

After discussing his project by phone and in emails Mr. Smith gave him a document called the “KLS research packet,” which contained articles Mr. Smith planned to use for opposition research, Mr. Tait said. The packet cover sheet is the document that listed the Trump campaign officials. Mr. Smith’s name and phone number are typed at the bottom of it.

Mr. Smith asked Mr. Tait to sign a nondisclosure agreement. Mr. Tait said he declined and ceased communications with Mr. Smith, never reviewing any purported Clinton emails.

The document Mr. Smith presented to Mr. Tait, which he kept, is titled, “A Demonstrative Pedagogical Summary to be Developed and Released Prior to November 8, 2016,” which was Election Day.

It cites as the “preferred vehicle” for the effort a limited-liability company established in Delaware. Mr. Smith established KLS Research as that vehicle on Sept. 2, according to incorporation documents.

The House Intelligence Committee and its counterpart in the Senate are investigating Russian election meddling and whether there was coordination with the Trump campaign. So is Special Counsel Robert Mueller. President Trump has denied any collusion. The Russian government has denied it tried to interfere.

U.S. investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that tell of Russian hackers discussing how to get emails from Mrs. Clinton’s server and transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary, according to U.S. officials with knowledge of the intelligence. It isn’t clear who the intermediary might have been or whether Mr. Smith’s operation was the one allegedly under discussion by the Russian hackers.

Mr. Smith said in the May interview he had assembled a group of technology experts, lawyers and a Russian-speaking investigator based in Europe to acquire emails his group theorized might have been stolen from Mrs. Clinton’s private server.

He said that after vetting batches of emails offered to him by hacker groups last fall, he couldn’t be sure enough of their authenticity to leak them himself and told the hackers to give them to WikiLeaks.

WikiLeaks has never published such emails or claimed to have them. In a statement to the Journal, it said, “WikiLeaks has never revealed a source and never will.”

[time4fun]

From yesterday:

GOP Operative Sought Clinton Emails From Hackers, Implied a Connection to Flynn (https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-operative-sought-clinton-emails-from-hackers-implied-a-connection-to-flynn-1498770851)


WASHINGTON—Before the 2016 presidential election, a longtime Republican opposition researcher mounted an independent campaign to obtain emails he believed were stolen from Hillary Clinton’s private server, likely by Russian hackers.

In conversations with members of his circle and with others he tried to recruit to help him, the GOP operative, Peter W. Smith, implied he was working with retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, at the time a senior adviser to then-candidate Donald Trump.

“He said, ‘I’m talking to Michael Flynn about this—if you find anything, can you let me know?’” said Eric York, a computer-security expert from Atlanta who searched hacker forums on Mr. Smith’s behalf for people who might have access to the emails.

Emails written by Mr. Smith and one of his associates show that his small group considered Mr. Flynn and his consulting company, Flynn Intel Group, to be allies in their quest.

What role, if any, Mr. Flynn may have played in Mr. Smith’s project is unclear. In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Mr. Smith said he knew Mr. Flynn, but he never stated that Mr. Flynn was involved.

Mr. Flynn didn’t respond to requests for comment.

A Trump campaign official said that Mr. Smith didn’t work for the campaign, and that if Mr. Flynn coordinated with him in any way, it would have been in his capacity as a private individual. The White House declined to comment.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating Russian attempts to sway the U.S. election and whether there was collusion between Russians and the Trump campaign. President Trump has denied any collusion and called the investigation a “witch hunt.” The Russian government has denied it interfered in the election.

Mr. Smith died at age 81 on May 14, which was about 10 days after the Journal interviewed him. His account of the email search is believed to be his only public comment on it.


The operation Mr. Smith described is consistent with information that has been examined by U.S. investigators probing Russian interference in the elections.

Those investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clinton’s server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary, according to U.S. officials with knowledge of the intelligence.

It isn’t clear who that intermediary might have been or whether Mr. Smith’s operation was the one allegedly under discussion by the Russian hackers. The reports were compiled during the same period when Mr. Smith’s group was operating, according to the officials.

Mr. Smith said he worked independently and wasn’t part of the Trump campaign.

His project began over Labor Day weekend 2016 when Mr. Smith, a private-equity executive from Chicago active in Republican politics, said he assembled a group of technology experts, lawyers and a Russian-speaking investigator based in Europe to acquire emails the group theorized might have been stolen from the private server Mrs. Clinton used as secretary of state.

Mr. Smith’s focus was some 33,000 emails Mrs. Clinton said were deleted because they were deemed personal. Mr. Smith said he believed that the emails might have been obtained by hackers and that they actually concerned official matters Mrs. Clinton wanted to conceal—two notions for which he offered no evidence. Mrs. Clinton gave the State Department tens of thousands of emails related to official business.

Former Federal Bureau of Investigation Director James Comey said in July 2016 there was no evidence the private server had been hacked but held out the possibility it could have been.

In the interview with the Journal, Mr. Smith said he and his colleagues found five groups of hackers who claimed to possess Mrs. Clinton’s deleted emails, including two groups he determined were Russians.

“We knew the people who had these were probably around the Russian government,” Mr. Smith said.

U.S. intelligence agencies have accused the Russians of stealing emails from the Democratic National Committee and Mrs. Clinton’s campaign chairman, John Podesta, and providing them to WikiLeaks last summer as part of a multifaceted operation to interfere with the election and help Mr. Trump’s campaign. Mr. Trump on July 27 publicly encouraged Russia to go further and find the Clinton “emails that are missing.” Asked about that on Monday, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Mr. Trump was joking.

Mr. Smith said after vetting batches of emails offered to him by hacker groups last fall, he couldn’t be sure enough of their authenticity to leak them himself. “We told all the groups to give them to WikiLeaks,” he said. WikiLeaks has never published those emails or claimed to have them.

Mr. Smith and one of his associates said they had a line of communication with Mr. Flynn and his consulting company.

In one Smith email reviewed by the Journal, intended to entice outside experts to join his work, he offered to make introductions to Mr. Flynn’s son, Michael G. Flynn, who worked as chief of staff in his father’s company. Mr. Smith’s email mentioned the son among a small number of other people he said were helping.

Michael G. Flynn didn’t respond to a request for comment.

In another recruiting email seen by the Journal, Jonathan Safron, a law student Mr. Smith described as a close colleague, included links to the websites and LinkedIn profiles of people purportedly working with the Smith team. At the top of the list was the name and website of Flynn Intel, which Mr. Flynn set up after his 2014 firing as director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Mr. Safron declined to comment on his email or Mr. Smith’s project.

In phone conversations, Mr. Smith told a computer expert he was in direct contact with Mr. Flynn and his son, according to this expert. The person said an anti-Clinton research document prepared by Mr. Smith’s group identified the younger Mr. Flynn as someone associated with the effort. The expert said that based on his conversations with Mr. Smith, he understood the elder Mr. Flynn to be coordinating with Mr. Smith’s group in his capacity as a Trump campaign adviser.

The senior Mr. Flynn was fired as national-security adviser in February after misleading administration officials about his conversations with the Russian ambassador concerning sanctions. Those conversations put Mr. Flynn under scrutiny by the FBI and then the special counsel, according to U.S. officials.

Mr. Smith said in the interview he supported Mr. Flynn’s efforts during the presidential transition to establish relations with Russian officials.

Mr. Smith said he never intended to pay for any emails found by hackers.

He said he understood the risk in publishing the emails himself. If, under public scrutiny, they proved not to be genuine, “people would say we made them up,” he said, and the whole project would be dismissed as a Republican hit job on the Clinton campaign. In the early 1990s, Mr. Smith helped publicize Arkansas state troopers’ claims that then-Gov. Bill Clinton had enlisted them to arrange trysts with women, an unproven allegation denied by the Clinton White House.

Mr. Smith’s views on Russian hacking were complex. While he said he believed Russians were likely among those who tried to steal Mrs. Clinton’s emails, he dismissed intelligence agencies’ conclusion that the Russia’s government meddled in the election to discredit Mrs. Clinton and to help Mr. Trump.

Mr. Smith was himself once a hacking victim. Emails he wrote about the 2015 contest to fill former House Speaker John Boehner’s seat were stolen from the Illinois Republican Party and then made public, in a campaign U.S. intelligence officials attributed to Russian actors. Mr. Smith didn’t dispute that Russia might have been to blame. He said he was unconcerned about his messages being exposed.

[OMGWTFBBQ]

https://youtu.be/ZZ5LpwO-An4

[Parkbandit]

https://lacamarademiex.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/desperate-crazy-girlfriend-dating-gif.gif

[Methais]

The whole purpose of this thread is time4fun wants us to know she pays for access to these articles.

Because she's stupid.

Reported for piracy.

https://media.tenor.com/images/0e346bc3fa24dccbab7b88b5eeeedad8/tenor.gif

[Wrathbringer]

The whole purpose of this thread is time4fun wants us to know she pays for access to these articles.

Because she's stupid.

:lol:

[Gelston]

Enjoy the civil suit from WSJ! Just wait until they sue you for 3.50 per view!

[~Rocktar~]

The whole purpose of this thread is time4fun wants us to know she pays for access to these articles.

That's because she earns from eleventy to 732 times what we all make because she has 17 degrees ranging from woman's studies to history of the woman's hygiene products all the way to nuclear physics and international relations.

Don't be jealous, she is so far superior that you really have no chance to compete with her blazed rantings.

[time4fun]

That's because she earns from eleventy to 732 times what we all make because she has 17 degrees ranging from woman's studies to history of the woman's hygiene products all the way to nuclear physics and international relations.

Don't be jealous, she is so far superior that you really have no chance to compete with her blazed rantings.

Literally anything to avoid having to read and engage.

[Wrathbringer]

Literally anything to avoid having to read and engage.

YOU LOST GET OVER IT

[time4fun]

And the final nail on the head in this situation:

Matt Talt recounts his experiences with Peter Smith and his attempts to connect the findings of Russian hackers with the Trump campaign. Of note here is the strong evidence that Smith's operation was at least partially coordinated with the campaign, and that Smith seemed to be well aware of (and unconcerned by) the fact that the emails were likely coming from the Russians. This is not an anonymous source, and it corroborates the WSJ reporting this week. This is not a drill- it's evidence of potential collusion.

The Time I Got Recruited to Collude with the Russians (https://lawfareblog.com/time-i-got-recruited-collude-russians)


[Smith contacted me] about his conviction that Clinton’s private email server had been hacked—in his view almost certainly both by the Russian government and likely by multiple other hackers too—and his desire to ensure that the fruits of those hacks were exposed prior to the election.


Over the course of our conversations, one thing struck me as particularly disturbing. Smith and I talked several times about the DNC hack, and I expressed my view that the hack had likely been orchestrated by Russia and that the Kremlin was using the stolen documents as part of an influence campaign against the United States. I explained that if someone had contacted him via the “Dark Web” with Clinton’s personal emails, he should take very seriously the possibility that this may have been part of a wider Russian campaign against the United States. And I said he need not take my word for it, pointing to a number of occasions where US officials had made it clear that this was the view of the U.S. intelligence community as well.

Smith, however, didn’t seem to care.

Although it wasn’t initially clear to me how independent Smith’s operation was from Flynn or the Trump campaign, it was immediately apparent that Smith was both well connected within the top echelons of the campaign and he seemed to know both Lt. Gen. Flynn and his son well. Smith routinely talked about the goings on at the top of the Trump team, offering deep insights into the bizarre world at the top of the Trump campaign. Smith told of Flynn’s deep dislike of DNI Clapper, whom Flynn blamed for his dismissal by President Obama. Smith told of Flynn’s moves to position himself to become CIA Director under Trump, but also that Flynn had been persuaded that the Senate confirmation process would be prohibitively difficult. He would instead therefore become National Security Advisor should Trump win the election, Smith said. He also told of a deep sense of angst even among Trump loyalists in the campaign, saying “Trump often just repeats whatever he’s heard from the last person who spoke to him,” and expressing the view that this was especially dangerous when Trump was away.

It is no overstatement to say that my conversations with Smith shocked me. Given the amount of media attention given at the time to the likely involvement of the Russian government in the DNC hack, it seemed mind-boggling for the Trump campaign—or for this offshoot of it—to be actively seeking those emails. To me this felt really wrong.

As I mentioned above, Smith and his associates’ knowledge of the inner workings of the campaign were insightful beyond what could be obtained by merely attending Republican events or watching large amounts of news coverage. But one thing I could not place, at least initially, was whether Smith was working on behalf of the campaign, or whether he was acting independently to help the campaign in his personal capacity.

Then, a few weeks into my interactions with Smith, he sent me a document, ostensibly a cover page for a dossier of opposition research to be compiled by Smith’s group, and which purported to clear up who was involved. The document was entitled “A Demonstrative Pedagogical Summary to be Developed and Released Prior to November 8, 2016,” and dated September 7. It detailed a company Smith and his colleagues had set up as a vehicle to conduct the research: “KLS Research”, set up as a Delaware LLC “to avoid campaign reporting,” and listing four groups who were involved in one way or another.

The first group, entitled “Trump Campaign (in coordination to the extent permitted as an independent expenditure)” listed a number of senior campaign officials: Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Sam Clovis, Lt. Gen. Flynn and Lisa Nelson.

My perception then was that the inclusion of Trump campaign officials on this document was not merely a name-dropping exercise. This document was about establishing a company to conduct opposition research on behalf of the campaign, but operating at a distance so as to avoid campaign reporting. Indeed, the document says as much in black and white.

The combination of Smith’s deep knowledge of the inner workings of the campaign, this document naming him in the “Trump campaign” group, and the multiple references to needing to avoid campaign reporting suggested to me that the group was formed with the blessing of the Trump campaign.

[Wrathbringer]

And the final nail on the head in this situation:

Matt Talt recounts his experiences with Peter Smith and his attempts to connect the findings of Russian hackers with the Trump campaign. Of note here is the strong evidence that Smith's operation was at least partially coordinated with the campaign, and that Smith seemed to be well aware of (and unconcerned by) the fact that the emails were likely coming from the Russians. This is not an anonymous source, and it corroborates the WSJ reporting this week. This is not a drill- it's evidence of potential collusion.

The Time I Got Recruited to Collude with the Russians (https://lawfareblog.com/time-i-got-recruited-collude-russians)



[/COLOR][/B]

Guess what? Nothing will happen. 4 more years!

[~Rocktar~]

Literally anything to avoid having to read and engage.

I thought I had explained a while back in simple enough terms even Back understood, I don't engage with you if I can help it because you are incapable of doing anything other than spouting how smart you are, some nonsense analogy, insulting people and other idiotic Left Wing flash card drivel. Mostly I read your posts and laugh then wish I knew your name and address so I could turn you into ICE for harboring an illegal, conspiracy and whatever else you have admitted to being guilty of on these boards.

[Back]

Guess what? Nothing will happen. 4 more years!

If you're going to use other people's icons like a stalker you should use PB's.

[time4fun]

I thought I had explained a while back in simple enough terms even Back understood, I don't engage with you if I can help it because you are incapable of doing anything other than spouting how smart you are, some nonsense analogy, insulting people and other idiotic Left Wing flash card drivel. Mostly I read your posts and laugh then wish I knew your name and address so I could turn you into ICE for harboring an illegal, conspiracy and whatever else you have admitted to being guilty of on these boards.

Your post dripped with so much irony that went right over your own head. It made me giggle.

[Wrathbringer]

If you're going to use other people's icons like a stalker you should use PB's.

I'm afraid I have no idea to what you're referring.

[Neveragain]

Your post dripped with so much irony that went right over your own head. It made me giggle.

Do your friends know that you've started smoking crack again?

[~Rocktar~]

Your post dripped with so much irony that went right over your own head. It made me giggle.

Your posts are rolled in so much dogshit that they make me wretch.

[Parkbandit]

If you're going to use other people's icons like a stalker you should use PB's.

What avatar?

[~Rocktar~]

What avatar?

8715

[Parkbandit]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDrs1ICXkAAjtl4.jpg:small

[time4fun]

For those who missed the latest story- it turns out that (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/presidents-son-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-presidential-campaign-after-being-promised-information-helpful-to-fathers-effort/2017/07/09/90c0e3e8-64e9-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumprussia-7pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.800dc7344867) Donald Trump Jr, Paul Manafort, and Jared Kushner all met with a Russian lawyer with ties to Moscow who promised them incriminating information about Clinton:


Donald Trump Jr., the president’s son, said in a statement Sunday that a Russian lawyer with whom he met in June 2016 claimed she could provide potentially damaging information about his father’s likely Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton.

He said he had agreed to the meeting at Trump Tower in New York because he was offered information that would be helpful to the campaign of his father, then the presumptive GOP presidential nominee.

Not only does this demonstrate that the campaign was at least open to collaborating with Russia to influence the election, but it also contradicts NUMEROUS claims by the Trump campaign about the frequency and nature of their contacts with the Russian government during the election. These accounts include: (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/10/donald-trump-jr-just-contradicted-a-whole-bunch-of-white-house-denials-of-russian-contacts/?utm_term=.47e4cdb941c0)

1) DT Jr Claimed on Saturday that the meeting with the Russian lawyer had nothing to do with the campaign- it was simply about Russian adoption. His new statement contradicts that claim.

2) In March, DT Jr claimed:

“Did I meet with people that were Russian? I’m sure, I’m sure I did,” he said. “But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.”

3) In January, Trump himself was asked if anyone in his campaign had any contacts with Russia during the campaign, and he flatly said no. (This has been contradicted in about a dozen instances at this point)

4) Nov 11th a campaign spokeswoman said:
"It never happened," Hicks said. "There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign."

5) Kellyanne Conway told the nation that no one in the campaign had any contact with the Russians during the campaign:


JOHN DICKERSON: Did anyone involved in the Trump campaign have any contact with Russians trying to meddle with the election?

CONWAY: Absolutely not. And I discussed that with the president-elect just last night. Those conversations never happened. I hear people saying it like it's a fact on television. That is just not only inaccurate and false, but it's dangerous and it does undermine our democracy.

6) Mike Pence in January claimed the same:


WALLACE: I’m asking a direct question: Was there any contact in any way between Trump or his associates and the Kremlin or cutouts they had?

PENCE: I joined this campaign in the summer, and I can tell you that all the contact by the Trump campaign and associates was with the American people. We were fully engaged with taking his message to make America great again all across this country. That’s why he won in a landslide election.


This is the second piece of evidence in the last few weeks that indicates a possibility of collusion with the Russians.

[Neveragain]

For those who missed the latest story- it turns out that (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/presidents-son-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-presidential-campaign-after-being-promised-information-helpful-to-fathers-effort/2017/07/09/90c0e3e8-64e9-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumprussia-7pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.800dc7344867) Donald Trump Jr, Paul Manafort, and Jared Kushner all met with a Russian lawyer with ties to Moscow who promised them incriminating information about Clinton:



Not only does this demonstrate that the campaign was at least open to collaborating with Russia to influence the election, but it also contradicts NUMEROUS claims by the Trump campaign about the frequency and nature of their contacts with the Russian government during the election. These accounts include: (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/10/donald-trump-jr-just-contradicted-a-whole-bunch-of-white-house-denials-of-russian-contacts/?utm_term=.47e4cdb941c0)

1) DT Jr Claimed on Saturday that the meeting with the Russian lawyer had nothing to do with the campaign- it was simply about Russian adoption. His new statement contradicts that claim.

2) In March, DT Jr claimed:


3) In January, Trump himself was asked if anyone in his campaign had any contacts with Russia during the campaign, and he flatly said no. (This has been contradicted in about a dozen instances at this point)

4) Nov 11th a campaign spokeswoman said:

5) Kellyanne Conway told the nation that no one in the campaign had any contact with the Russians during the campaign:



6) Mike Pence in January claimed the same:




This is the second piece of evidence in the last few weeks that indicates a possibility of collusion with the Russians.

:deadhorse:

[Back]

This is the second piece of evidence in the last few weeks that indicates a possibility of collusion with the Russians.

Looks like straight up collusion to me. Russian lawyer says she has info against an opponent in an election. Even if she did not actually have information the intent of the meeting was to obtain it for an advantage.

[time4fun]

Looks like straight up collusion to me. Russian lawyer says she has info against an opponent in an election. Even if she did not actually have information the intent of the meeting was to obtain it for an advantage.

I think there's still a valid question of how they perceived the information was acquired. The earlier WSJ articles- which indicates that the Trump campaign was knowingly supporting an effort to acquire illegally hacked emails from the Russian government are still the real story. There's no mistaking that- they were well aware that they were coordinating with an illegal hack.

You could still argue that- with regards to the Russian lawyer- they didn't suspect that the information had been illegally obtained by the Russian government. The fact that the Russian government was actively under sanctions by the US Government at the time makes it a VERY suspicious decision regardless, but I'm not sure if it rises to the status of illegal if they can argue they didn't suspect anything improper. Though the fact that they continually lied about their contacts with the Russian government puts a giant red flag on this meeting (and many others). (And there's the larger outstanding possibility that this was a meeting where they requested, directly or indirectly, future help from the Kremin)

As Comey himself argued- one of the classic signs that meetings with a foreign government are improper is any attempt to conceal those meetings.

[Parkbandit]

Looks like straight up collusion to me. Russian lawyer says she has info against an opponent in an election. Even if she did not actually have information the intent of the meeting was to obtain it for an advantage.

LOL.

Well if it looks like "straight up collusion" to Backlash.. and given your track record on this forum, we can safely state that there is a .00021% chance that it is.

Thank you for clearing that up.

[time4fun]

So apparently, I may have been going too easy on the Trump campaign. Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/10/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting-legal-danger-240370)did a great article today about the legal issues that Trump Jr and the Campaign may have stepped into with this meeting:


Democratic and Republican lawyers and political operatives alike say explanations about the June 2016 meeting from President Donald Trump’s oldest son are way out of step with common campaign practices when dealing with offers for opposition research.


But perhaps far more important, his statements put him potentially in legal cross hairs for violating federal criminal statutes prohibiting solicitation or acceptance of anything of value from a foreign national, as well as a conspiracy to defraud the United States.


“I don't think that is an out,” said Robert Bauer, a former White House counsel under President Barack Obama and the Democrat’s 2008 campaign attorney. “If they accept the meeting on the understanding that they will be offered something of value — the opposition research — they are sending a clear signal that they would like to have it.”

Bauer added that accepting a meeting where there’s an understanding of purpose “raises a question under the federal campaign finance law” for which Trump Jr. could be held accountable.


“This is treason,” Richard Painter, a former George W. Bush White House ethics lawyer, wrote Sunday night on Twitter. “He must have known that the only way Russia would get such information was by spying.”

Painter added in another message: “In the Bush administration we could have had him in custody for questioning by now.”



Jennifer Taub, a white-collar attorney and Vermont Law School professor, posted on Twitter a 20-part message Monday that cited a specific section of the U.S. criminal code that Trump Jr. may have crossed concerning prohibitions on conspiracy to defraud the U.S. “Potential indictments are coming into clear focus,” she wrote.


Norm Eisen, a former chief White House ethics attorney, called the Trump Jr. meeting with the Russian lawyer “very unusual” and cited several parts of federal criminal statute that may have been breached, including the Logan Act, a 1799 law barring private citizens from interfering with diplomatic relations between the U.S. and foreign governments. The law has been enforced only once — more than 200 years ago — but still remains a potent political cudgel.

“In decades of working on campaigns and as an election lawyer, I have never personally witnessed or authorized anything like this,” Eisen said. “In a normal campaign, this would be the most crimson of red flags and would not be undertaken without counsel and candidate consent, which raises the question of whether Trump himself had any indication of this.”


Republican strategist Stuart Stevens also posted Sunday night on Twitter about the unusual nature of the Trump Jr. meeting. “When Gore campaign was sent Bush debate brief book, they called FBI. If foreign interests offer you info on former SOS, you call the FBI,” he wrote.

[Wrathbringer]

So apparently, I may have been going too easy on the Trump campaign. Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/10/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting-legal-danger-240370)did a great article today about the legal issues that Trump Jr and the Campaign may have stepped into with this meeting:

stfu you lost

[cwolff]

So apparently, I may have been going too easy on the Trump campaign. Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/10/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting-legal-danger-240370)did a great article today about the legal issues that Trump Jr and the Campaign may have stepped into with this meeting:

Little Don just lawyered up. :rofl:

These fucking clowns are AMAZING. Every day they deny some contact with Russia, then try to walk it back the next. They're either malicious or stupid. Either way, we don't need them in the white house.

[Wrathbringer]

Little Don just lawyered up. :rofl:

These fucking clowns are AMAZING. Every day they deny some contact with Russia, then try to walk it back the next. They're either malicious or stupid. Either way, we don't need them in the white house.

You lost. Get over it. Trump is doing a bang up job thus far. #4moreyears

eta: at least this fake news entertains your ilk.

[time4fun]

Little Don just lawyered up. :rofl:

These fucking clowns are AMAZING. Every day they deny some contact with Russia, then try to walk it back the next. They're either malicious or stupid. Either way, we don't need them in the white house.

I'm going with malicious. They had lawyers on the campaign. They had every ability to determine legality of their actions.

Someone who is merely stupid doesn't know enough about what they did to realize they should hide it.

Someone who is malicious knows full well they did things that were wrong, and they'll do their best to hide it.

[Back]

Someone who is malicious knows full well they did things that were wrong, and they'll do their best to hide it.

Like fire the people investigating him?

[cwolff]

Looks like straight up collusion to me. Russian lawyer says she has info against an opponent in an election. Even if she did not actually have information the intent of the meeting was to obtain it for an advantage.

They're not even denying collusion now. They switched to saying that it's not impeachable and again headlines are asking the same question that keeps getting asked; "Is Trump too Stupid to be President or is he a Traitor."

[time4fun]

Like fire the people investigating him?

Exhibit A.

[Back]

They're not even denying collusion now. They switched to saying that it's not impeachable and again headlines are asking the same question that keeps getting asked; "Is Trump too Stupid to be President or is he a Traitor."

LOL. I'm going to go with the answer "both".

[time4fun]

They're not even denying collusion now. They switched to saying that it's not impeachable and again headlines are asking the same question that keeps getting asked; "Is Trump too Stupid to be President or is he a Traitor."

A strange argument to be sure. Just about anything is impeachable.

[Parkbandit]

Derp


Derp


Derp


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/df/fe/6c/dffe6c53c6a04f19a784033031051b94.jpg

[cwolff]

A strange argument to be sure. Just about anything is impeachable.

Depending on how Trump's Presidency ends and I could see it ending in many different ways, one thing you can take to the bank is that Executive Power will be severely diminished. It's a shame, but to all those people who talk about "Big Government" this is how it happens. You get one asshole who willfully ignores precedent, values and norms because it's not explicitly illegal.

[Savageheart]

As long as Trump can make conservative judicial appointments they will back him.

Unseating a sitting president with a willing congress is extremely unlikely. Without one, nearly impossible.

[time4fun]

As long as Trump can make conservative judicial appointments they will back him.

Unseating a sitting president with a willing congress is extremely unlikely. Without one, nearly impossible.

Nothing is going to happen until Mueller's investigation concludes, most likely. (At which point, Trump may actually already be out of the White House) There are three possible exceptions to that:

1) If charges are brought against 2 or more high ranking officials in the Trump campaign for various forms of treason before the overall investigation concludes, then you'll find the GOP Senate ready to dump Trump ASAP in order to get ahead of the story. POSSIBLY if it's just Flynn (and it's bad enough), but I suspect it'll take more than just him.

2) If Mueller concludes his obstruction investigation before the rest of the investigation (which is possible- it's a much easier investigation than the larger Russian interference elements) and determines that Trump was actively obstructing justice, that will be enough to convince the GOP to abandon ship before 2020.

3) If the media uncovers a smoking gun before the investigation concludes and then makes it public, that will likely be enough to get Congressional Republicans to kick Trump out before it gets worse

Fundamentally, the political calculus for Congressional Republicans has to add up to it being riskier to stand by Trump than to dump him in order for a conviction to happen.

I do think you're going to see Republicans less and less interested in standing by Trump as the next year or so progresses. He's pretty toxic now, and electoral history suggests that it's going to get worse (even before you factor the ongoing investigations into the equation). That's not the same thing as voting to impeach him, but it does compound the problem for Trump for several reasons- not the least of which is it removes some of the protections he needs to ensure impeachment proceedings aren't brought up in the House.

[RichardCranium]

What are your feelings on a Pence presidency?

[time4fun]

What are your feelings on a Pence presidency?

I think that despite his overall attempts to keep a low profile, he was head of the transition team and has gone out on numerous occasions and contributed to the lies about the relationship between the campaign and Russia. He's every bit as culpable as the rest of the campaign, in my mind.

But, I would still take him over Trump. I think he's a horrible person, but at least he's stable and capable of considering the consequences to his actions that don't directly impact him.

[Parkbandit]

What are your feelings on a Pence presidency?

Exactly.

7 more years of this... hopefully 1 or 2 more SCOTUS appointment.. get the economy back on track..

Then we'll let them have another chance to fuck it up again.

[cwolff]

From wapo


WASHINGTON — Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald J. Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email

[Back]

What are your feelings on a Pence presidency?

Honestly at this point I'm wistfully nostalgic about the Bush presidency. Pence would be a millions times better.

[OMGWTFBBQ]

I think that despite his overall attempts to keep a low profile, he was head of the transition team and has gone out on numerous occasions and contributed to the lies about the relationship between the campaign and Russia. He's every bit as culpable as the rest of the campaign, in my mind.

But, I would still take him over Trump. I think he's a horrible person, but at least he's stable and capable of considering the consequences to his actions that don't directly impact him.

Oh please. If Trump was out and Pence in, you'd have your crosshairs on him. Obliteration of the right is your goal...just admit it.

[Back]

Putin must be laughing his ass off right now. He tossed out the bait and caught himself some little fish.


Donald Trump Jr. was told in an email (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-russia-email-candidacy.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65555680&pgtype=Homepage&_r=0) that a meeting to obtain information damaging to presidential rival Hillary Clinton was connected to intelligence gathered by the Russian government to help elect his father, according to a report from The New York Times.

The Times, citing multiple people with knowledge of the missive, said the email was sent by Rob Goldstone, a publicist who helped set up the meeting between Trump’s eldest son and Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya. The note reportedly said the information presented during the meeting would come from the Russian government.

Trump Jr. indicated in a statement Sunday that he and his brother-in-law, Jared Kushner, and his father’s then-campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, met with Veselnitskaya after being told she “might have information helpful to the campaign.”

“Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense,” Trump said. “No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”

[time4fun]

New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-russia-email-candidacy.html)confirming WaPo's reporting tonight:




WASHINGTON — Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

The email to the younger Mr. Trump was sent by Rob Goldstone, a publicist and former British tabloid reporter who helped broker the June 2016 meeting. In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Trump acknowledged that he was interested in receiving damaging information about Mrs. Clinton, but gave no indication that he thought the lawyer might have been a Kremlin proxy.

Mr. Goldstone’s message, as described to The New York Times by the three people, indicates that the Russian government was the source of the potentially damaging information. It does not elaborate on the wider effort by Moscow to help the Trump campaign. There is no evidence to suggest that the promised damaging information was related to Russian government computer hacking that led to the release of thousands of Democratic National Committee emails.

Well, there you have it folks. This is the kind of thing that lands someone in jail.

This is the proof of collusion that everyone has been waiting for. And this happened two months before the apparent coordination of efforts with the GOP operative to gain access to Clinton's stolen emails from Russian hackers.

And there's absolutely no way that anyone is going to believe that Trump wasn't informed about this by his son or his campaign manager. I believe a few weeks after this meeting, Trump announced his big Anti-Clinton speech. And her emails started being released about a month later, I believe. (Someone confirm the timeline for me?)

[time4fun]

Ha darn you Back! Beat me to the punch!

[Parkbandit]

If only... ONLY there wasn't this thing called opposition research... that has happened in every single election in the history of the universe....

DAMMIT!

[Parkbandit]

Putin must be laughing his ass off right now. He tossed out the bait and caught himself some little fish.

The die hard Hillary fans?

He is.

[Methais]

If only... ONLY there wasn't this thing called opposition research... that has happened in every single election in the history of the universe....

DAMMIT!

No this is really it for super serious this time! Just like it was the other 9367273959 times!

[time4fun]

If only... ONLY there wasn't this thing called opposition research... that has happened in every single election in the history of the universe....

DAMMIT!

First- A true patriot would have notified the authorities that there was a Russian plot to throw the election. A true patriot would NEVER have said "Oh that sounds like a great idea" and sat down to meet with someone claiming to represent that government.

It's not normal opposition research to take information from a hostile foreign power that hacked and spied its way into it. I'll remind you of these quotes again:


Republican strategist Stuart Stevens also posted Sunday night on Twitter about the unusual nature of the Trump Jr. meeting. “When Gore campaign was sent Bush debate brief book, they called FBI. If foreign interests offer you info on former SOS, you call the FBI,” he wrote.


Norm Eisen, a former chief White House ethics attorney, called the Trump Jr. meeting with the Russian lawyer “very unusual” and cited several parts of federal criminal statute that may have been breached, including the Logan Act, a 1799 law barring private citizens from interfering with diplomatic relations between the U.S. and foreign governments. The law has been enforced only once — more than 200 years ago — but still remains a potent political cudgel.

“In decades of working on campaigns and as an election lawyer, I have never personally witnessed or authorized anything like this,” Eisen said. “In a normal campaign, this would be the most crimson of red flags and would not be undertaken without counsel and candidate consent, which raises the question of whether Trump himself had any indication of this.”


This is treason,” Richard Painter, a former George W. Bush White House ethics lawyer, wrote Sunday night on Twitter. “He must have known that the only way Russia would get such information was by spying.”

Painter added in another message: “In the Bush administration we could have had him in custody for questioning by now.”

Stevens is a Republican, and Painter worked under a Republican.

There are reasons why this kind of behavior is illegal. And if you stop and think about it in the larger context for two seconds, those reasons should be very clear.

[Neveragain]

"a former George W. Bush White House ethics lawyer"

It's pretty sad that you're now having to hang your hat on the ethics of the Bush administration.

Do you ever tire of being trolled by the God Emperor, because that's what this is? Democrats are being trolled into opening these documents which will show that Clinton was receiving Ukrainian influence money.

Of course when that comes to light, which it already has but "muh Russian narrative", I'm sure you will have no problem with it.

[time4fun]

Donald Trump Jr posted what he says is the email chain between him and Rob. He was told on June 3rd:


Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting. The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning, and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr Trump- helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

DTJ seems to think that this isn't incriminating. Ignoring even the core issue here (that he was offered information by the Russian government to meddle in the election)- this means that the Trump campaign and family has known that Russia was trying to get him elected since last June.

And the answer to the question "What should we do about this?" was apparently NOT "inform the FBI and the CIA that Russia is trying to interfere with the election", it was "Let's have a private meeting with the campaign chair man and my brother-in-law about this, and then let's spend the next year denying that Russia is trying to get Trump elected".




8734

[SHAFT]

Trying to watch Team Trump try to spin this JR story will be fascinating.

[Back]

Donald Trump Jr posted what he says is the email chain between him and Rob. He was told on June 3rd:



DTJ seems to think that this isn't incriminating. Ignoring even the core issue here (that he was offered information by the Russian government to meddle in the election)- this means that the Trump campaign and family has known that Russia was trying to get him elected since last June.

And the answer to the question "What should we do about this?" was apparently NOT "inform the FBI and the CIA that Russia is trying to interfere with the election", it was "Let's have a private meeting with the campaign chair man and my brother-in-law about this, and then let's spend the next year denying that Russia is trying to get Trump elected".




8734

The email even says Russia wants to help the Trump campaign. What a bunch of liars.

[Androidpk]

Trying to watch Team Trump try to spin this JR story will be fascinating.

Watching the rabid Hillbots foam at the mouth over email is more amusing.

[Savageheart]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQxsX8Cg-OUHjxdK_erL9hYEDn4iyGGrzdOaUIesyDbFYw1acHo

[Savageheart]

Actually I think these tweets by the guy who broke the story are kind of hilarious.

Here (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/journalist-worked-on-story-for-year-trump-jr-tweeted-it-out?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark)

[time4fun]

Trying to watch Team Trump try to spin this JR story will be fascinating.

They've been oddly quiet about the whole thing after offering a few contradicted statements.

For Trump- this is VERY bad. It's unthinkable that this meeting was important enough to warrant his son, his son-in-law, and his campaign chairman, but that he was somehow not informed of it.

They should have notified the authorities that a Foreign power was trying to influence our elections.

Kushner has high level security clearance. Trump- a man who KNEW we were under attack by an enemy- apparently at least tried to work with them (it's still not 100% proven that they did, in fact, do something concrete, in fairness), proceeded to lie to the American people about Russian involvement he knew was going on, and now he's in charge of our country.

The dots are connecting in a bad way for the Trump campaign (and, honestly, this country)

June 2016: Trump campaign is approached by an intermediary on behalf of a Russian government official offering dirt on Clinton and informing them that Russia is working to sway the election in his favor

July 2016: Trump gets up on national TV and asks Russia to hack in and get Clinton's emails

July/August 2016: Trump campaign is working with Peter Smith to try to get Clinton emails from Russian hackers, and intelligence agencies overhear Russian hackers discussing how to get those emails to Michael Flynn

[Parkbandit]

First- A true patriot would have notified the authorities that there was a Russian plot to throw the election. A true patriot would NEVER have said "Oh that sounds like a great idea" and sat down to meet with someone claiming to represent that government.

It's not normal opposition research to take information from a hostile foreign power that hacked and spied its way into it.

Dammit! You were SO CLOSE!

Well, except the part where that someone claimed to represent Russia: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-lawyer-who-met-trump-jr-i-didn-t-have-n781631

What information did Jr. get about Hillary anyway? Was it never released? Or are they saving it for 2020 when she tries for a third time?

[time4fun]

Actually I think these tweets by the guy who broke the story are kind of hilarious.

Here (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/journalist-worked-on-story-for-year-trump-jr-tweeted-it-out?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark)

Apparently he tweeted the emails out because the Times contacted him and informed him that they were about to publish them. Tweeting them out first was the only move he had left.

[time4fun]

Dammit! You were SO CLOSE!

Well, except the part where that someone claimed to represent Russia: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-lawyer-who-met-trump-jr-i-didn-t-have-n781631

What information did Jr. get about Hillary anyway? Was it never released? Or are they saving it for 2020 when she tries for a third time?

Yeah, you're pretty much asking all of the wrong questions.


First- if you had read the email, you'd realize that the Trump Campaign was informed that she was a representative of the top Government Prosecutor in Russia- a Putin appointee, FYI. She's even referred to as "the Russian government attorney" in the e-mail thread.

Secondly, you're assuming that no information was shared because...the Russian representative in the center of all of this said no information was shared? She also said that they were never told they were going to get damming information about Clinton from the Russians. (The email thread title is "Russia - Clinton private and confidential" btw) She also says she didn't represent Russia. Her story is directly contradicted by the email thread itself in multiple instances.

And you're actually going to believe that the top Russian prosecutor reached out to the Trump campaign to inform them that Russia was trying to sway the election in their favor and had incriminating information about Clinton to share, sent the representative all the way over from Moscow, and then...had her show up with nothing? Are you actually serious right now?

And last, it doesn't actually matter if they got any information or not. (though, obviously, they did) The litmus test for a crime isn't whether or not it paid off.

"Well your honor, he showed up to rob the bank at gun point, but it turns out they didn't have any money. So really, what crime was committed?"

[SHAFT]

Parkbandit: "We were invited by the bank robber to rob the vault, but when we got there, there wasn't anything of value, so we left".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Back]

Even if no information was shared the meeting was under the pretext of the Russian government sharing information about Hillary to help Trump. The INTENT to collude is absolutely there whether there was information shared, not shared, inaccurate, or flat out false.

[Wrathbringer]

Even if no information was shared the meeting was under the pretext of the Russian government sharing information about Hillary to help Trump. The INTENT to collude is absolutely there whether there was information shared, not shared, inaccurate, or flat out false.

fake news no one cares.

[SHAFT]

#ButHisEmails

[Neveragain]

Stay tuned for next week when the Democrats come up with yet another fairy tale

At the same moonbat time, on the same moonbat channel.

[time4fun]

Even if no information was shared the meeting was under the pretext of the Russian government sharing information about Hillary to help Trump. The INTENT to collude is absolutely there whether there was information shared, not shared, inaccurate, or flat out false.

Aaron Blake of the Post connected some interesting dots here:


The meeting was apparently held at 4 p.m. on June 9, 2016, for the record.

It’s worth nothing here that then-Candidate Trump said on June 7 – as he was winning a bunch of GOP primaries – that he would go after Clinton in the coming days with some “very, very interesting” and “informative” stuff.

“I am going to give a major speech on probably Monday (translation: June 13) of next week and we’re going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons,” Trump said. “I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting.”

Trump made this claim even as Trump Jr. was setting up this meeting with the Russian lawyer. It’s not clear what information Trump Sr. was referring to, though. And again, Trump Jr. says his dad didn’t know about the meeting.

As Philip Bump notes, Trump would give a speech on the 13th, but it was about national security and not Clinton.

The Trump campaign started organizing this meeting with the representative of the Russian government on June 3rd.

It seems pretty clear that Trump was fully anticipating getting incriminating information about Clinton from these Russian sources and was planning on using it. I remember distinctly when he made that claim about the Clinton speech, and I do remember how odd it was that it didn't end up being about Clinton at all. It's possible the Trump campaign held back because they didn't feel they got enough from the Russian contact (Either the Kremlin wanted more assurances before handing over info, or they really didn't have as much as they claimed- something I'm still skeptical of), and it's also possible they decided to hold onto the information they got a little bit longer to vet it. They were up against a pretty tight deadline.

[SHAFT]

Stay tuned for next week when the Democrats come up with yet another fairy tale

At the same moonbat time, on the same moonbat channel.

You're either a dumb fuck or an internet troll, both of which are not looked upon favorably.

Donald Trump, on why he fired Comey: "And in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said 'you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won'."

I'd like to point out Donald "Fredo" Trump JR released these emails himself. Hard to question the authenticity when he's releases them.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x176/shaft4783/C7BEDBF2-2FB9-4536-B75C-3659ABEF8215.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/shaft4783/media/C7BEDBF2-2FB9-4536-B75C-3659ABEF8215.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x176/shaft4783/448EA952-ED4C-4CDA-8448-132D8E08B9BF.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/shaft4783/media/448EA952-ED4C-4CDA-8448-132D8E08B9BF.jpg.html)

[time4fun]

Yeah, regardless of how you feel about the situation personally- this is likely the beginning of the end for Trump and his associates. There's no plausible deniability here for Trump- this meeting was attended by his son, his close adviser and son-in-law, and his campaign manager in Trump Tower. And his pattern of behavior after this meeting all seems to indicate that he was anticipating incriminating information on Clinton.

But it's more than that. The big story behind the story here is that the Trump campaign was fully aware that Russia was interfering in the election on their behalf. That means that they (including- and especially- Trump) intentionally worked to deceive the US Public about a critical issue of national security all the while exploring opportunities to benefit from the interference. You start getting into criminal conspiracy territory at this point in addition to the obvious obstruction issues. (ala Nixon)

[Wrathbringer]

Yeah, regardless of how you feel about the situation personally- this is likely the beginning of the end for Trump and his associates. There's no plausible deniability here for Trump- this meeting was attended by his son, his close adviser and son-in-law, and his campaign manager in Trump Tower. And his pattern of behavior after this meeting all seems to indicate that he was anticipating incriminating information on Clinton.

But it's more than that. The big story behind the story here is that the Trump campaign was fully aware that Russia was interfering in the election on their behalf. That means that they (including- and especially- Trump) intentionally worked to deceive the US Public about a critical issue of national security all the while exploring opportunities to benefit from the interference. You start getting into criminal conspiracy territory at this point in addition to the obvious obstruction issues. (ala Nixon)

You're just retarded. The end, huh? Quote this post for when trump gets reelected in 3.5 years.

[Neveragain]

You're either a dumb fuck or an internet troll, both of which are not looked upon favorably.

Donald Trump, on why he fired Comey: "And in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said 'you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won'."

I'd like to point out Donald "Fredo" Trump JR released these emails himself. Hard to question the authenticity when he's releases them.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x176/shaft4783/C7BEDBF2-2FB9-4536-B75C-3659ABEF8215.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/shaft4783/media/C7BEDBF2-2FB9-4536-B75C-3659ABEF8215.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x176/shaft4783/448EA952-ED4C-4CDA-8448-132D8E08B9BF.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/shaft4783/media/448EA952-ED4C-4CDA-8448-132D8E08B9BF.jpg.html)

I don't know why you continue to question my political knowledge, no laws have been broken. He did not release these on some whim, this is bait.

[time4fun]

I don't know why you continue to question my political knowledge, no laws have been broken. He did not release these on some whim, this is bait.

No laws have been broken? You seem so sure about that. And even if that dubious claim were true- what does it say about an American President who- upon learning about a plot by foreign enemy to meddle in our elections- decided that the best approach wasn't to protect the nation but to see if his campaign could profit off of it? And then to do his best to cover up the meddling?

Neither the Trump campaign nor you apparently have an ounce of patriotism in your bodies. You're disgusting.

And the reason why he released them was already mentioned in this thread. The New York Times called him and told him they were about to publish the emails themselves. He did the only thing he could do- publish first and say "Look, I'm being transparent because I have nothing to hide" (Except for all of the things in the emails that he absolutely tried to hide)

[Neveragain]

No laws have been broken? You seem so sure about that.

And the reason why he released them was already mentioned in this thread. The New York Times called him and told him they were about to publish the emails themselves. He did the only thing he could do- publish first and say "Look, I'm being transparent because I have nothing to hide" (Except for all of the things in the emails that he absolutely tried to hide)

So he broke no laws, ok thanks. Next!

I think I'll continue to listen to people that are.. I don't know...geniuses.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wohYNCD4u-E

Honestly with your level of retardation a private citizen would never be able to run for office.

[Wrathbringer]

No laws have been broken? You seem so sure about that. And even if that dubious claim were true- what does it say about an American President who- upon learning about a plot by foreign enemy to meddle in our elections- decided that the best approach wasn't to protect the nation but to see if his campaign could profit off of it? And then to do his best to cover up the meddling?

Neither the Trump campaign nor you apparently have an ounce of patriotism in your bodies. You're disgusting.

And the reason why he released them was already mentioned in this thread. The New York Times called him and told him they were about to publish the emails themselves. He did the only thing he could do- publish first and say "Look, I'm being transparent because I have nothing to hide" (Except for all of the things in the emails that he absolutely tried to hide)

what it says is "fake news"

[Neveragain]

Neither the Trump campaign nor you apparently have an ounce of patriotism in your bodies. You're disgusting.

So you will be turning your brother in now that you're so patriotic? Why aren't you contacting ICE about this? Isn't that the legal thing to do?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSFQrPzSAnE

[cwolff]

Neither the Trump campaign nor you apparently have an ounce of patriotism in your bodies. You're disgusting

Ain't that the truth.

[drauz]

But it's more than that. The big story behind the story here is that the Trump campaign was fully aware that Russia was interfering in the election on their behalf. That means that they (including- and especially- Trump) intentionally worked to deceive the US Public about a critical issue of national security all the while exploring opportunities to benefit from the interference. You start getting into criminal conspiracy territory at this point in addition to the obvious obstruction issues. (ala Nixon)

There is a huge difference between accepting information and interfering (in the way its been used this election cycle) with our election. Governments always meddle in regards to information with elections, we way very well do the same thing to them. I would be surprised to learn we don't. I take interferring to mean rigging vote machines and things like that. Not information peddling.

[Neveragain]

Ain't that the truth.

Let me get this straight.

Point out to the Democrats that zero laws have been proven to be broken by Trump and you're unpatriotic?

Is this what you're saying?

Hmmm...for some reason I recall this same kind of language in the past..... :thinking:

[Neveragain]

Democrats transforming into what they hate after losing it all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN4Di8DEPf8

[Androidpk]

Clintons brought down by email in 2016. Trumps brought down by email in 2017.

Am I the only one here who is fucking ecstatic about that??

[Neveragain]

Clintons brought down by email in 2016. Trumps brought down by email in 2017.

Am I the only one here who is fucking ecstatic about that??

I'm actually more ecstatic about Bernie and his Wifes involvement with bank fraud to be honest. They lawyered up so this obviously means their guilty.

[Androidpk]

I'm actually more ecstatic about Bernie and his Wifes involvement with bank fraud to be honest. They lawyered up so this obviously means their guilty.

Hillary's Revenge Tour.

[drauz]

Hillary's Revenge Tour.

He should be glad he didn't shoot himself in the back of the head...twice.

[Neveragain]

He should be glad he didn't shoot himself in the back of the head...twice.

His name was Seth Rich, which in English means Russia.

[Neveragain]

Clintons brought down by email in 2016. Trumps brought down by email in 2017.

Am I the only one here who is fucking ecstatic about that??

Honest question for you (or any other Bernie supporter for that matter.)

As a Bernie supporter who do you feel went out of their way to "fix" the elections?

[cwolff]

https://twitter.com/ReaganBattalion/status/884934824556888068?s=09

Trey is such a libtard.

[Neveragain]

https://twitter.com/ReaganBattalion/status/884934824556888068?s=09

Trey is such a libtard.

I love Trey, this still doesn't mean anyone has broken the law.

That's the point, I'm able to admit this. If they broke laws let them fry, why do you and your ilk have such a hard time doing the same?

So once again I'll ask, has anyone broken any laws? Because you sure don't seem to have an issue with the Clintons meeting with the Ukranians and actually being given documents?

[cwolff]

Joe gets it.
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/joe-scarborough-leaving-republican-party-colbert-late-show


Time and time and time again, they’ve turned the other way. And they’re doing the same thing now. And it’s actually disgusting, and you have to ask yourself, “What exactly is the Republican party willing to do? How far are they willing to go? How much of this country and our values are they willing to sell out?”

[cwolff]

https://twitter.com/igorvolsky/status/884917890121682950?s=09

Krauthammer is another snowflake.

[Tgo01]

So where's the smoking gun this time?

Seems everyone is focusing on the fact that Jr said "I love it." Like, really? That's the smoking gun? Trump Jr. said he "loves it"? So now Russian collusion? Treason? The end of Trump and his entire family and campaign?

Honest question, you all on drugs?

[Tgo01]

So I read the email exchange again to make sure I didn't miss anything.

I didn't.

What am I missing here? Someone please point me in the right direction.

[Tgo01]

Just look at this picture CNN has on one of their "stories" about this.

They unironically list a publicist, a pop star, a real state agent, and a lawyer as "Russian ties" to Trump. Oh and of course they list Putin himself as a "Russian tie" to Trump, because, you know, Trump personally met with Putin a few days ago in his official capacity as president at the G20. THAT STILL COUNTS AS A "TIE!"

You all being played for idiots and you're all too eager to gobble up as much of the MSM's cock as you can possibly fit down your throats.

Pic didn't turn out as big as I would hope. You all will live.

[cwolff]

Oh god, this one had me cracking up. Its a quote from Assange explaining how Jr. should have released through wikileaks (what trump calls leaking but hes an idiot of course) so that it can't be used by the prosecutors.

With friends like Julian, who needs Mueller?


Better to be transparent and have the full context ... but would have been safer for us to publish it anonymously sourced. By publishing it himself it is easier to submit as evidence.”

[Parkbandit]

So I read the email exchange again to make sure I didn't miss anything.

I didn't.

What am I missing here? Someone please point me in the right direction.

Trump+Russia=COLLUSION!

It's really simple math. Back is convinced it's clear collusion... that should be good enough for you.

[Neveragain]

Remember when you took your oath of citizenship? No? Neither do I.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiftaDgQKx4

[Androidpk]

So I read the email exchange again to make sure I didn't miss anything.

I didn't.

What am I missing here? Someone please point me in the right direction.


Doesn't matter if you're missing it, this is a pretty big story and does not bode well for Trump.

[Neveragain]

I guess I don't remember the part of the oath where Ukrainian arms dealers hold fund raiser dinners for you as an act of patriotism.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/843864725062664197

[cwolff]

This is an interesting tweet. I don't have Lexis Nexis so can't independently corroborate.


Pé Resists‏*
@4everNeverTrump

I just ran Lexis news article searches.

Trump NEVER mentioned HRC's 33,000 emails before Jun 9, 2016. After, he mentioned almost daily.
3:41 PM - 11 Jul 2017

8,621 Retweets
14,728 Likes

[RichardCranium]

I have enjoyed time4fun calling everyone unpatriotic.

[Androidpk]

I have enjoyed time4fun calling everyone unpatriotic.

The gift that keeps on giving.

[Methais]

Neither the Trump campaign nor you apparently have an ounce of patriotism in your bodies. You're disgusting.

Quoted for irony. And hilarity.

[Wrathbringer]

Neither the Trump campaign nor you apparently have an ounce of patriotism in your bodies. You're disgusting.

roflcoptered :lol:

[Tgo01]

Doesn't matter if you're missing it, this is a pretty big story and does not bode well for Trump.

Well then just explain it to me.

[cwolff]

Well then just explain it to me.


https://youtu.be/c5WPr4LQjCo

[Tgo01]

https://youtu.be/c5WPr4LQjCo

Keep proving my point. No one can explain it. You just admitted in the other thread you get your "news" from CNN (LOL!!) so I'm not surprised you can't explain WHY this is bad, you just know CNN told you it's bad.

Did they blackmail you into believing this is bad?

[Androidpk]

Well then just explain it to me.

do you really need someone to hold your hand and tell you why this is seriously bad optics for POTUS?

[cwolff]

Keep proving my point. No one can explain it. You just admitted in the other thread you get your "news" from CNN (LOL!!) so I'm not surprised you can't explain WHY this is bad, you just know CNN told you it's bad.

Did they blackmail you into believing this is bad?

This is the problem here. If you dismiss CNN, NYT, WaPo and the other "MSM's" then there really is no help for you. You can't argue with willful ignorance. It's like talking to Ken Hamm

[Tgo01]

do you really need someone to hold your hand and tell you why this is seriously bad optics for POTUS?

Considering it's not bad optics, yes.

So a private citizen in Britain tells Trump's son about a Russian private citizen singer whose Russian private citizen real estate mogul father had a meeting with a Russian private citizen lawyer who offered some dirt on Hillary.

Trump Jr meets with said Russian private citizen about said dirt and it turns out there was no dirt and she just wanted to discuss Russian adoption because it's a topic she is very passionate about and she's trying to get a meeting with the son of the possible future president to discuss it.

This is beyond ridiculous. Hillary's campaign was setting up meetings with private citizens too in order to dig up as much dirt as possible about Trump. This happens every election cycle.

But now suddenly it's a big deal because RUSSIA!

You all are acting like these actors were literally spies. We are literally talking about a real estate mogul, a fucking singer, a lawyer, and the person setting up the meetings was a Britain publicist.

Trump derangement syndrome is stronger than ever.

[Tgo01]

This is the problem here. If you dismiss CNN, NYT, WaPo and the other "MSM's" then there really is no help for you. You can't argue with willful ignorance. It's like talking to Ken Hamm

They have all pretty much lost all right to be taken seriously at this point.

CNN blackmailing a private citizen.

NYT taking months to finally clear up the bullshit about 14 agencies when they knew damn well it was only 3 the whole damn time.

WaPo trumping up this email "scandal" so much because they knew their gullible readers will eat this shit up.

No, I'll just do my own research and think for myself. You should try it sometime.

[cwolff]

They have all pretty much lost all right to be taken seriously at this point.

CNN blackmailing a private citizen.

NYT taking months to finally clear up the bullshit about 14 agencies when they knew damn well it was only 3 the whole damn time.

WaPo trumping up this email "scandal" so much because they knew their gullible readers will eat this shit up.

No, I'll just do my own research and think for myself. You should try it sometime.

That's such a cop out. Humans seem to have a unlimited resources to rationalize away uncomfortable shit and you're making full use of this ability. It's your Super Power.

...and as I type a little voice in my head is saying, "Don't be mean to TG! Dreavenings are the greatest thing ever!!!" hahaha

[Tgo01]

That's such a cop out. Humans seem to have a unlimited resources to rationalize away uncomfortable shit and you're making full use of this ability. It's your Super Power.

Yeah! How silly of me to take seriously a news corporation blackmailing a private citizen! HOW DARE ME! WE HAVE TRUMP TO IMPEACH!


...and as I type a little voice in my head is saying, "Don't be mean to TG! Dreavenings are the greatest thing ever!!!" hahaha

All Dreavenings are banned thanks to cwolff.

[Parkbandit]

This is the problem here. If you dismiss CNN, NYT, WaPo and the other "MSM's" then there really is no help for you. You can't argue with willful ignorance. It's like talking to Ken Hamm

You just named the 3 that seem to have the biggest axes to grind against President Trump.

That's not a coincidence.

[cwolff]

Yeah! How silly of me to take seriously a news corporation blackmailing a private citizen! HOW DARE ME! WE HAVE TRUMP TO IMPEACH!

Throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Tgo01]

Throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Please. All it took for Democrats to write Fox News off forever (EVEN TO THIS DAY!) was they disagreed with Obama.

And now I'm not supposed to write CNN off (at least for now) when they literally blackmailed a private citizen?

Yeah. No.

[cwolff]

Please. All it took for Democrats to write Fox News off forever (EVEN TO THIS DAY!) was they disagreed with Obama.

And now I'm not supposed to write CNN off (at least for now) when they literally blackmailed a private citizen?

Yeah. No.

Ehhhh...not really. Fox news is shit with no standards. It was literally created to tell the Right what the Right wants to hear. What's telling is that they changed from "Fair and Balanced" to "Most Watched-Most Trusted". The brainwashing is complete.

Just another False Equivalency.

[Tgo01]

Ehhhh...not really. Fox news is shit with no standards.

But of course CNN blackmailing a random nobody is the highest of journalist standards.


It was literally created to tell the Right what the Right wants to hear.

And all CNN wants to do is tell the left what the left wants to hear.


What's telling is that they changed from "Fair and Balanced" to "Most Watched-Most Trusted". The brainwashing is complete.

And CNN's motto is "Most trusted name in news" LOL!


Just another False Equivalency.

It's different when the left does it!

[time4fun]

Ehhhh...not really. Fox news is shit with no standards. It was literally created to tell the Right what the Right wants to hear. What's telling is that they changed from "Fair and Balanced" to "Most Watched-Most Trusted". The brainwashing is complete.

Just another False Equivalency.

Fox News actually edited the Trump Jr Emails to remove the references to the Russian government being the source of the information they were going to receive.

It blows my mind that people trust them.

[Wrathbringer]

Fox News actually edited the Trump Jr Emails to remove the references to the Russian government being the source of the information they were going to receive.

It blows my mind that people trust them.

says another cnn retard

[Tgo01]

Fox News actually edited the Trump Jr Emails to remove the references to the Russian government being the source of the information they were going to receive.

Where in the "real" emails does it state that the Russian government is the source of the information being offered?

[time4fun]

Where in the "real" emails does it state that the Russian government is the source of the information being offered?

Guess we just figured out who's been getting their information from Fox News.


The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his [Emin's] father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr Trump...

Later in the email chain, Veselnitskaya (the Russian lawyer they met with) is referred to as the "Russian government lawyer" a few times.


Has it occurred to you that if you didn't know that these lines existed, your news sources are manipulating you?

And, by the way, here's a video of Donald Trump Jr in July of last year (a month or so after the meeting with the Russian government lawyer) denying the Russians are trying to help get Trump elected:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GPTGKi2-sA

Anyone care to explain that?

[Tgo01]

I've read the emails themselves from Jr's own Twitter feed. Silly me though, when you said "Russian government being the source of the information" I thought you meant the actual Russian government was providing this information, not relying on someone's words who was twice removed from the alleged actual conversation to begin with.

Also just because she happens to be a lawyer does not mean she was working on behalf of the Russian government. Because, yeah, that makes sense, the Russian government wants to help Trump so they send a lawyer to speak with a real estate mogul, who passes on the information to the mogul's son, who then passes on the information to a British publicist, who then offers to set up a meeting with Trump Jr. BRILLIANT!

Also the line "part of Russia and its government's support for Mr Trump" was A) from the BRITISH PUBLICIST, and B) DOES NOT SAY THE INFORMATION IS COMING FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT.

Did you bother to take ANY English courses in college? Or was it all gender studies bullshit?

[Neveragain]

Anyone care to explain that?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoyB8AMZZ14

As soon as you can explain this.

[time4fun]

Also the line "part of Russia and its government's support for Mr Trump" was A) from the BRITISH PUBLICIST, and B) DOES NOT SAY THE INFORMATION IS COMING FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*ahem* Why that's a fascinating point you have there Tgo.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[time4fun]

Sorry, I just need to get this out..


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[time4fun]

Also the line "part of Russia and its government's support for Mr Trump" was A) from the BRITISH PUBLICIST, and B) DOES NOT SAY THE INFORMATION IS COMING FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT.


Yeah no, not done yet.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AAHAHA

That was even better than PB's "Intent wasn't a factor in the law until Clinton".

Seriously- thanks. I needed that.

[Tgo01]

British publicist: The Russian government supports your father, Trump Jr!
Trump Jr: Great...thanks...

time4fun reads that as: THIS INFORMATION IS COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT! IT'S THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE!

Holy shit you're dumber than a bag of rocks.

EDIT: Wait, that's giving you far too much credit to assume you thought of this all on your own. I'm sure someone over at blackmail news told you that's what that line meant.

[Tgo01]

Hey, time4fun, point me towards the crime where it's against the law for a foreign government to support a presidential candidate? Just one law? Pretty please?

You don't think the governments of countries such as France, Germany, Italy, and etc were all "supporting" Hillary Clinton?

Oh yes, how can I forget! It's different when it's RUSSIA!

[Stolis]

Or when the US Government supported and tried to influence elections in the Middle East...

[Tgo01]

Or when the US Government supported and tried to influence elections in the Middle East...

Obama literally gave tax dollars to a group that was trying to make sure Netanyahu didn't get reelected and the Democrats couldn't be bothered.

But a British publicist says the Russian government supports Trump? OMG! THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD! THIS PROVES COLLUSION! TRUMP PERSONALLY GOT INFORMATION DIRECTLY FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT!!! RRRRREEEEEEEEE!

[cwolff]

But of course CNN blackmailing a random nobody is the highest of journalist standards.



And all CNN wants to do is tell the left what the left wants to hear.



And CNN's motto is "Most trusted name in news" LOL!



It's different when the left does it!

Why I have heartburn with CNN is because they bend over backwards to get Trump surrogates equal airtime. Even though the Trump people lie, obfuscate and dissemble in service to their overlords, CNN still gives them the space to do it. Its most definitely not the conspiracy theory you think it is.

[drauz]

Obama literally gave tax dollars to a group that was trying to make sure Netanyahu didn't get reelected and the Democrats couldn't be bothered.

But a British publicist says the Russian government supports Trump? OMG! THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD! THIS PROVES COLLUSION! TRUMP PERSONALLY GOT INFORMATION DIRECTLY FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT!!! RRRRREEEEEEEEE!

You should talk about the Clinton campaign accepting help from Ukraine.

[Tgo01]

Why I have heartburn with CNN is because they bend over backwards to get Trump surrogates equal airtime. Even though the Trump people lie, obfuscate and dissemble in service to their overlords, CNN still gives them the space to do it. Its most definitely not the conspiracy theory you think it is.

Right, because their leftwing dipshits don't do the same?

Also CNN literally ROLLS THEIR EYES at their right wing guests. Stop with the bullshit that they are attempting to be impartial.

[Tgo01]

You should talk about the Clinton campaign accepting help from Ukraine.

But that's not RUSSIA!

[cwolff]

Right, because their leftwing dipshits don't do the same?

Also CNN literally ROLLS THEIR EYES at their right wing guests. Stop with the bullshit that they are attempting to be impartial.

Yes. If you lie and spout obvious Bullshit and avoid the tough questions you gonna get some eyeroll. Not a thing wrong with that.

[drauz]

But that's not RUSSIA!

Not yet. :wink:

[time4fun]

You should talk about the Clinton campaign accepting help from Ukraine.

Because he needs MORE fake facts (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/12/did-ukraine-try-help-clinton-way-russia-helped-tru/)?

C'mon, this is the same guy who actually argued that " is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr Trump..." didn't mean that the information came FROM the Russian Government. (You know, despite the fact that the email also says that the information came from the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation, to be delivered via a Russian government lawyer).

Oh, by the way, Tgo...
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[time4fun]

Or when the US Government supported and tried to influence elections in the Middle East...

You know what the difference is?

No other President has ever invited another country to meddle in OUR elections and then gone on a mission to discredit any notion that it happened.

And if you don't see how that makes someone a horrible American and unfit for anything other than life in prison, then I can't help you.

[Androidpk]

You know what the difference is?

No other President has ever invited another country to meddle in OUR elections.


Go back and read up on Bill Clinton and Chinagate.

[Tgo01]

Yes. If you lie and spout obvious Bullshit and avoid the tough questions you gonna get some eyeroll. Not a thing wrong with that.

Keep being partisan while pretending to not be partisan.


Because he needs MORE fake facts (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/12/did-ukraine-try-help-clinton-way-russia-helped-tru/)?

MORE "fake facts"? Implying my assertion that Obama gave tax dollars to a group campaigning for the defeat of Netanyahu?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/12/obama-admin-sent-taxpayer-money-oust-netanyahu/


The State Department paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayers grants to an Israeli group that used the money to build a campaign to oust Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in last year’s Israeli parliamentary elections, a congressional investigation concluded Tuesday.

Some $350,000 was sent to OneVoice, ostensibly to support the group’s efforts to back Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement negotiations. But OneVoice used the money to build a voter database, train activists and hire a political consulting firm with ties to President Obama’s campaign — all of which set the stage for an anti-Netanyahu campaign, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said in a bipartisan staff report.

But don't let facts cloud your judgement!


C'mon, this is the same guy who actually argued that " is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr Trump..." didn't mean that the information came FROM the Russian Government. (You know, despite the fact that the email also says that the information came from the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation, to be delivered via a Russian government lawyer).

If you took the DNC's cock out of your mouth for a few seconds you would realize how utterly stupid you are sounding.

Imagine for one minute if in 2009 someone from Britain sent Hillary Clinton's daughter an email suggesting they have evidence from a Kenyan lawyer stating they have proof that Obama was born in Kenya, and the lawyer is willing to share this information with Hillary because the government of Kenya supports Hillary for president.

You would laugh at the allegation that it was "from the Kenya government", right? Not only that you would laugh that we are hearing about this from a third party, and you would laugh at the mere suggestion that Obama was born in Kenya, and probably just label everyone involved (except Hillary herself) as a racist.

To be fair though, I would laugh at the entire exchange too and go one step farther and accuse Hillary of being a racist too.

But see that's where we part, because your partisan bullshit now wants so desperately for this to be true that you are willing to throw away all logical thinking in your pathetic pursuit to see Trump impeached.

Your Trump derangement syndrome has so infected your mind that it has turned you into a literal retard.

[Tgo01]

No other President has ever invited another country to meddle in OUR elections and then gone on a mission to discredit any notion that it happened.

Wait what? So now Trump himself invited Russia to meddle in our elections? You sure do read a lot into this shit don't ya?

[cwolff]

Keep being partisan while pretending to not be partisan.


Well there's your problem. I keep pointing it out. Your thinking is too binary. Us v Them. In Group v Out group.

Telling someone who is lying, that they are a liar, is not a partisan issue. It just so happens that at this point in time, the right is lying like crazy. They even elected a man to represent them who is the king of obvious easily fact checked lies.

You got to recognize that what used to be the GOP is gone now. Victims of their own success. They've built a movement appealing to the lizard brain and have trouble now being rational.

[drauz]

Well there's your problem. I keep pointing it out. Your thinking is too binary. Us v Them. In Group v Out group.

Telling someone who is lying, that they are a liar, is not a partisan issue. It just so happens that at this point in time, the right is lying like crazy. They even elected a man to represent them who is the king of obvious easily fact checked lies.

You got to recognize that what used to be the GOP is gone now. Victims of their own success. They've built a movement appealing to the lizard brain and have trouble now being rational.

But calling only one side of the political spectrum out for lying is.

[drauz]

You know what the difference is?

No other President has ever invited another country to meddle in OUR elections and then gone on a mission to discredit any notion that it happened.

And if you don't see how that makes someone a horrible American and unfit for anything other than life in prison, then I can't help you.

What makes someone a good American?

[drauz]

Because he needs MORE fake facts (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/12/did-ukraine-try-help-clinton-way-russia-helped-tru/)?

C'mon, this is the same guy who actually argued that " is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr Trump..." didn't mean that the information came FROM the Russian Government. (You know, despite the fact that the email also says that the information came from the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation, to be delivered via a Russian government lawyer).

Oh, by the way, Tgo...
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You do realize that article doesn't say that these are totally different and should be treated as such, right?

[time4fun]

You do realize that article doesn't say that these are totally different and should be treated as such, right?

Read the whole article, not just the top 1/3.

Reading that article makes it incredibly clear that the whole "The Clinton campaign coordinated with the Ukraine government to help their campaign" line is completely inaccurate.

[time4fun]

But calling only one side of the political spectrum out for lying is.

We're talking about a very specific issue here. There's no shame in refusing to take deflection bait every time it comes up. Especially when the economy of scale here is so wildly disparate. A Presidential campaign inviting Russian government officials to have a meeting with top members of the campaign and the candidate's son and son-in-law after being informed of a Russian government plot to interfere in the outcome of the election is a huge deal. That same Campaign and nominee then going on a year-long offense to discredit anyone and anything that dares suggest that said Russian plot is real is an even bigger deal. And that candidate- who is now President- being under active investigation for obstruction of justice related to trying to make the investigations into the subject go away makes this one of the worst political scandals in US history.

So to recap: enough with the deflection. It's time to talk about the real issue here- because it warrants it.

[cwolff]

But calling only one side of the political spectrum out for lying is.

Again, the false equivalency and more obfuscation. Yes all politicians lie and spin. What's happened to the conservative movement is on another level. It's been like watching a loved one in an abusive relationship. You know they're being lied to, you know this is not going to end well for anybody but you're helpless to stop it.

[Tgo01]

It just so happens that at this point in time, the right is lying like crazy.

And the left isn't? The ones who have been hyping this Russia collusion for months now with no evidence? Their best evidence to date is an email from a British publicist discussing details from a Russian pop star who got information from his real estate mogul father who got information from a Russian lawyer and Trump Jr met with this chick and no information was provided? Keep in mind this is the BEST they have.

And let's not forget that before that the whole narrative was RUSSIA HACKED THE ELECTIONS! Of course that was complete and utter bullshit, but you gave the Democrats a pass for that one, right?

Now let's talk about all of the Democrats getting in front of national television to tell everyone how tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of people will die every year if Trumpcare goes through. Of course you know that's all bullshit, but you don't give a flying fuck because they have the letter D after their names, right?

[cwolff]

You know there is an investigation right?

And I think Russians like literally hacked in this election. Not just through their Romanian fake news bots, but actually tried to break in to the system.

[Tgo01]

You know there is an investigation right?

Is there an investigation for Trump collusion with Russia?

[cwolff]

Yes, I think it is about collusion. His mandate though, is to follow any thread of impropriety that's found.

[drauz]

Read the whole article, not just the top 1/3.

Reading that article makes it incredibly clear that the whole "The Clinton campaign coordinated with the Ukraine government to help their campaign" line is completely inaccurate.


Benjamin Wittes, editor of the respected Lawfare blog, told us he doesn’t think the comparison is frivolous.

They don't disprove this or imply that it is frivolous. They are similar but different.

[Tgo01]

Yes, I think it is about collusion. His mandate though, is to follow any thread of impropriety that's found.

Oh my bad, I meant is there a law enforcement agency conducting a Trump/Russia collusion investigation?

I don't mean a laughable congressional investigation.

[cwolff]

Oh my bad, I meant is there a law enforcement agency conducting a Trump/Russia collusion investigation?

I don't mean a laughable congressional investigation.

Are you talking about Mueller?

[Tgo01]

Are you talking about Mueller?

Any law enforcement agency, yes. Last I heard Comey himself said Trump wasn't personally under investigation and Mueller was focusing on Trump aides. Maybe this has changed though. It's hard to tell with the likes of blackmail news spewing their bullshit.

[Tgo01]

Going back to fake news; how about when CNN insisted the first lady of Poland refused to shake Trump's hand? Surely you gave them shit for that, right?

Just how much blatant bullshit, blackmail, and fake news does CNN have to spew before you sit back and say "Wow, they really ARE biased pieces of shit"?

[drauz]

Again, the false equivalency and more obfuscation. Yes all politicians lie and spin. What's happened to the conservative movement is on another level. It's been like watching a loved one in an abusive relationship. You know they're being lied to, you know this is not going to end well for anybody but you're helpless to stop it.

YOU feel their lies are more important. Conservatives think the liberals lies are more important. You think Donald Trump is terrible, conservatives disagree. Conservatives think Obama was a terrible President, liberals disagree.

News is supposed to be unbiased. They are supposed to have the public trust that they will be fair and impartial. They very rarely, if ever, seriously go after a liberal politician.

[Ashliana]

YOU feel their lies are more important. Conservatives think the liberals lies are more important. You think Donald Trump is terrible, conservatives disagree. Conservatives think Obama was a terrible President, liberals disagree.

News is supposed to be unbiased. They are supposed to have the public trust that they will be fair and impartial. They very rarely, if ever, seriously go after a liberal politician.

You're, moronically, starting from a biased position -- the notion that, irrespective of their actions, the "news" should "go after" politicians at equal rates. When one party loses its mind, which the GOP has, it's appropriate that it receives more scrutiny.

Being monumentally stupid, though, you actually think poor, undeserving Trump is unfairly hounded, even as revelation after revelation about Trump et. al's actions -- and their lies about their actions -- come to light.

[Tgo01]

You're, moronically, starting from a biased position -- the notion that, irrespective of their actions, the "news" should "go after" politicians at equal rates. When one party loses its mind, which the GOP has, it's appropriate that it receives more scrutiny.

Being monumentally stupid, though, you actually think poor, undeserving Trump is unfairly hounded, even as revelation after revelation about Trump et. al's actions -- and their lies about their actions -- come to light.

From the most unbiased person on the PC! Tell us again how war is bad except for when Obama bombed Libya.

[cwolff]

Going back to fake news; how about when CNN insisted the first lady of Poland refused to shake Trump's hand? Surely you gave them shit for that, right?

Just how much blatant bullshit, blackmail, and fake news does CNN have to spew before you sit back and say "Wow, they really ARE biased pieces of shit"?

They give equal time and promoted Trumps candidacy for the ratings. You should thank them

YOU feel their lies are more important. Conservatives think the liberals lies are more important. You think Donald Trump is terrible, conservatives disagree. Conservatives think Obama was a terrible President, liberals disagree.

News is supposed to be unbiased. They are supposed to have the public trust that they will be fair and impartial. They very rarely, if ever, seriously go after a liberal politician.

Meh, not really. There are objective facts. Its not all a conspiracy theory and journalism is still alive and well. You want to make two sides of one coin but it just aint so.

[cwolff]

You're, moronically, starting from a biased position -- the notion that, irrespective of their actions, the "news" should "go after" politicians at equal rates. When one party loses its mind, which the GOP has, it's appropriate that it receives more scrutiny.

Being monumentally stupid, though, you actually think poor, undeserving Trump is unfairly hounded, even as revelation after revelation about Trump et. al's actions -- and their lies about their actions -- come to light.

Ya! What Ash said.

[Tgo01]

They give equal time and promoted Trumps candidacy for the ratings. You should thank them

Yes. I should thank them for having 93% negative stories on Trump. Yes. Thanks, blackmail news!


Its not all a conspiracy theory and journalism is still alive and well.

LOL

[cwolff]

Fucking A, is pence caught up in this too? His people are going to have to start calling Fox fake news soon.

https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/status/885316072471121921?s=09

[Tisket]

journalism is still alive and well.

Unbiased journalism is as mythical as Canadian culture.

[drauz]

You're, moronically, starting from a biased position -- the notion that, irrespective of their actions, the "news" should "go after" politicians at equal rates. When one party loses its mind, which the GOP has, it's appropriate that it receives more scrutiny.

Being monumentally stupid, though, you actually think poor, undeserving Trump is unfairly hounded, even as revelation after revelation about Trump et. al's actions -- and their lies about their actions -- come to light.

You seem to think, moronically, that I mean 1 story for Republican then there must be 1 story for Democrats. You would be wrong. I want them to go after both parties equally when there is something worth reporting.

I am saying that even when a liberal politician does something stupid they barely cover it, if at all.

Can you back up that last statement? Even in the slightest?

[drauz]

Meh, not really. There are objective facts. Its not all a conspiracy theory and journalism is still alive and well. You want to make two sides of one coin but it just aint so.

See my above reply.


journalism is still alive and well

Want to buy a newspaper?

[cwolff]

See my above reply.



Want to buy a newspaper?

Oh hell no. Newspapers are dying but journalists are still getting scoops.

Ive heard it so much I almost believe that they give dems a break.

The thing is, I was a Republican in Clintons Presidency and they destroyed him in the papers. Everyday it was a new outrage. Bush got a huge free pass for his Bullshit because of 9/11. Obama was treated well but he did well, and communicated well. Trump is going out of his way to Self sabotage and the media isn't making this shit up. They're being fed from white house employees.

[time4fun]

They don't disprove this or imply that it is frivolous. They are similar but different.

Yes, the article cites Wittes at the very beginning. It then follows with the other 2/3 of the article- which discuss how different the situations are.

[Tgo01]

The thing is, I was a Republican in Clintons Presidency and they destroyed him in the papers. Everyday it was a new outrage. Bush got a huge free pass for his Bullshit because of 9/11.

Are you high?

[cwolff]

Are you high?

Nope, work drug tests, <sigh>

[cwolff]

Ohh, I'm red again. Got the "kool-aid" one. Been years since I got that.

[drauz]

Ohh, I'm red again. Got the "kool-aid" one. Been years since I got that.

Sorry, I'm apparently stronger than I realized.

[time4fun]

Unbiased journalism is as mythical as Canadian culture.

When you can't dispute the facts- you attack the messenger.

There's a desperate need on the right to attack the journalists who are uncovering incriminating information about the administration and the campaign so they can avoid having to actually talk about what's been uncovered.

Start dealing with the actual facts of the situation. Stop ignoring it. If you can't dispute those facts- then you need to own up to that fact.

[drauz]

Yes, the article cites Wittes at the very beginning. It then follows with the other 2/3 of the article- which discuss how different the situations are.

Yes they discuss the differences while also saying a comparison is valid.

[time4fun]

Ohh, I'm red again. Got the "kool-aid" one. Been years since I got that.

The angry conservative mob likes to try to harass people they disagree with out of arguing with them. Don't buy into their childish games. They're pathetic and unworthy of being taken seriously.

[Tgo01]

When you can't dispute the facts- you attack the messenger.

Says the person who EVEN TO THIS DAY will laugh at anyone who sources a Fox News article. Or the person who just a few days ago laughed at me when I sourced Daily Wire.

Your hypocritical bullshit is almost as bad as your reading comprehension.

[cwolff]

Sorry, I'm apparently stronger than I realized.

No worries. My rep is always fragile.

We need to discuss your Bloom video sometime also.

[time4fun]

Yes they discuss the differences while also saying a comparison is valid.

No. Wittes says as much. Politifact actually doesn't make a determination. It's up to the reader to go through the roughly 2/3 of the article pointing out the big differences.

But more to the point- you can't have it both ways here. You can't present the Ukraine situation as so important that it's worth discussing because it's "similar" to the Russia situation as a reason to distract from talking about the Russia situation.

The situations are NOT remotely comparable for several reasons- not the least of which includes the people involved, the directionality of the requests, and the role of the countries in our elections.

But it's also complete garbage to throw Ukraine out there as a deflection to avoid talking about Russia.

[drauz]

Oh hell no. Newspapers are dying but journalists are still getting scoops.

Ive heard it so much I almost believe that they give dems a break.

The thing is, I was a Republican in Clintons Presidency and they destroyed him in the papers. Everyday it was a new outrage. Bush got a huge free pass for his Bullshit because of 9/11. Obama was treated well but he did well, and communicated well. Trump is going out of his way to Self sabotage and the media isn't making this shit up. They're being fed from white house employees.

Obama killed American citizen's with drones. I can only imagine what would happen if that was Trump.

[time4fun]

Obama killed American citizen's with drones. I can only imagine what would happen if that was Trump.

And now you're deflecting with talk about Obama.

Deal with the actual situation. There's nothing you're going to say about wildly different scenarios that will, in any way, shape, or form, impact this situation. Colluding with Russia to throw the election and then misleading the American people and obstructing justice to keep people from believing that Russia meddled is flat out wrong no matter what any other person on this planet has ever done or thought about any other situation.

For the record though- a lot of us had freak outs over the drone killings. So stop pretending like everyone just sat back and smiled their way through that.

[cwolff]

Obama killed American citizen's with drones. I can only imagine what would happen if that was Trump.

He had that botched raid right off the bat and got a free pass, they just got shut down trying to ease the restrictions on revoking citizenship and, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue without losing votes. I reckon that,if he droned a few citizens he'd be alright.

[drauz]

And now you're deflecting with talk about Obama.

Deal with the actual situation. There's nothing you're going to say about wildly different scenarios that will, in any way, shape, or form, impact this situation. Colluding with Russia to throw the election and then misleading the American people and obstructing justice to keep people from believing that Russia meddled is flat out wrong no matter what any other person on this planet has ever done or thought about any other situation.

For the record though- a lot of us had freak outs over the drone killings. So stop pretending like everyone just sat back and smiled their way through that.

HE BROUGHT UP OBAMA AND CLINTON!!!! They implied that Obama did nothing wrong, thats why the media was nice to him.

[Ashliana]

You seem to think, moronically, that I mean 1 story for Republican then there must be 1 story for Democrats. You would be wrong. I want them to go after both parties equally when there is something worth reporting.

The trouble with this statement is that the right doesn't care about actual wrongdoing (i.e., "something that's worth reporting," to use your language). The GOP, for years, spent all their outrage capital (not to mention millions of taxpayer dollars in phony investigations) desperately trying to smear Hillary with Benghazi. There was plenty of blame to go around with Benghazi, but the GOP was the most cynical it had ever been (up until that point, and Trump), hysterically, and endlessly trying to get something to stick when there was absolutely nothing to their claims. Even their own "investigations" came to the same conclusions, which they then did their best to bury, releasing on a Thanksgiving weekend (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/225129-gop-led-benghazi-report-purposely-buried-in-news-cycle-democrat).

And how much did Fox, Drudge, Breitbart -- endless promoters of an evidence-free conspiracy theory -- report on that development, or any other substantive development about it? Zero.

And that bit them in the behind when they couldn't convince people to care about Hillary's e-mail scandal, which would have rightly ended almost any other candidate's run, because they'd spent literally years crying wolf about nothing.


I am saying that even when a liberal politician does something stupid they barely cover it, if at all.

The mainstream media definitely has a bias -- however, that bias is several orders of magnitude less great than the conservative sources above. And they definitely do cover liberal wrongdoing -- conservatives just don't read it. They reported non-stop on Hillary's e-mails for months on end.

In 2017, however, the negative news cycle for Republicans never goes away because:

1) The people who work for Trump are so alarmed by his erratic behavior he keeps making them leak damaging revelations,
2) Trump has no impulse control and his insane ravings on Twitter become news stories in and of themselves,
3) Trump has decided to base his entire governing philosophy on arbitrarily doing the opposite of whatever Obama did, even if those policies were in no way partisan, and even when those policies enjoy insanely widespread support among the public.


Can you back up that last statement? Even in the slightest?

Directly? Probably not. Though being outraged about how "unfair" the media is when the president you supported, and all his people, just got outed as bald-face lying to the American people for months about not meeting with Russians, the collusion being "fake news," pretty much demonstrates it, though.

[time4fun]

HE BROUGHT UP OBAMA AND CLINTON!!!! They implied that Obama did nothing wrong, thats why the media was nice to him.

You've spent more time in this thread discussing Obama and Ukraine than the actual Russia collusion issue. You may not be a right winger, but you're adopting a purely conservative set of talking points.

[Ashlander]

You've spent more time in this thread discussing Obama and Ukraine than the actual Russia collusion issue. You may not be a right winger, but you're adopting a purely conservative set of talking points.

Couldn't be because the only "collusion issue" is third party information and people's feelings on the matter.

[Ashliana]

Couldn't be because the only "collusion issue" is third party information and people's feelings on the matter.

Did you somehow miss the release of Donald Trump's son's e-mails where he admits, gleefully, to collusion -- after months and months of flat-out denials?

You might want to update your talking points.

[Tgo01]

Did you somehow miss the release of Donald Trump's son's e-mails where he admits, gleefully, to collusion -- after months and months of flat-out denials?

Just how much blackmail news do you watch?

Trump Jr told a British publicist to tell his Russian pop singer friend to tell his real estate mogul father to tell a lawyer he would meet with her...and that's somehow collusion between Trump and the Russian government?

This almost reads like a bad joke.

"So a British publicist, a Russian pop singer, and a Russian real estate mogul walk into a bar and the bartender says 'Hey! None of that Russian collusion in MY bar!'"

[Ashliana]

Just how much blackmail news do you watch?

Trump Jr told a British publicist to tell his Russian pop singer friend to tell his real estate mogul father to tell a lawyer he would meet with her...and that's somehow collusion between Trump and the Russian government?

This almost reads like a bad joke.

"So a British publicist, a Russian pop singer, and a Russian real estate mogul walk into a bar and the bartender says 'Hey! None of that Russian collusion in MY bar!'"

Translation: "I didn't actually read the e-mails, nor do I know what they say."

[cwolff]

From conservative Kristoll. I hadn't considered WH cover-up yet.


WHOA. Don Jr.'s false statement Sat. was drafted by WH aides & seen by Trump. This wasn't Jr being dopey. This was an attempted WH cover-up.

[Tgo01]

Translation: "I didn't actually read the e-mails, nor do I know what they say."

Oh I read the emails, and it read exactly how I just described.

Prove you read the emails and show me where I was wrong.

[Ashlander]

Just how much blackmail news do you watch?

Trump Jr told a British publicist to tell his Russian pop singer friend to tell his real estate mogul father to tell a lawyer he would meet with her...and that's somehow collusion between Trump and the Russian government?

This almost reads like a bad joke.

"So a British publicist, a Russian pop singer, and a Russian real estate mogul walk into a bar and the bartender says 'Hey! None of that Russian collusion in MY bar!'"

I guess to some fucktards meeting any Russian citizen is collusion now. Damn our government is screwed.

[cwolff]

I guess to some fucktards meeting any Russian citizen is collusion now. Damn our government is screwed.

Forgive my ignorance, but didn't the emails say hed meet someone with info from Russian government to help trumps campaign?

[Tgo01]

I guess to some fucktards meeting any Russian citizen is collusion now. Damn our government is screwed.

This is the crazy part I don't understand.

Somehow ANY Russian citizen is the Russian government.

I laughed when I saw CNN report that the real estate mogul father "has ties to Putin."

Well fuck. HOW?

Would the CEO of Solyndra be considered to "have ties" with Obama so when anyone speaks with said CEO they are working with the American government?

Would ACORN be considered a government entity and if a foreign national works with anyone from ACORN they are working with the American government?

This bullshit is just mind boggling how people can think this shit works like this.

This story WOULD be a huge bombshell if someone claiming to work for the KGB or worked for some Russian politician had emailed Jr directly and to set up this meeting. That would be huge news and that would probably convince me something fishy is going on.

But emails between a British publicist and Trump Jr is somehow colluding with the Russian government? The fuck?

The funniest part is the real story alone would be embarrassing for Trump. I wouldn't give a flying fuck, but I can see how Trump's Democrat opponents could spin this to show how "un American Trump is" and bullshit like that.

But that's not good enough for the likes of blackmail news and Democrats. No no. They have to take it one step further and say "See? See?! Russian collusion with Trump!"

[Ashliana]

Oh I read the emails, and it read exactly how I just described.

Prove you read the emails and show me where I was wrong.

Trump was told, flat out, that an agent of the Russian government was offering information on Hillary - he eagerly agreed, and subsequently met with them, along with Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort. Then all of those people spent months adamantly denying that they'd met with Russians, Kushner left his many dealings off his security clearance application -- only to "retroactively" disclose (some, not this one). Either way, the administration has been blatantly concealing collusion and hysterically raving about their collusion being "fake news."

You're either the most gullible person on Earth who will believe literally anything a Republican tells you and/or your support for Trump as an individual is much stronger than your support for America as a nation. Either way, you're a completely deluded, willfully ignorant ideologue. Take your pick.

[drauz]

The trouble with this statement is that the right doesn't care about actual wrongdoing (i.e., "something that's worth reporting," to use your language). The GOP, for years, spent all their outrage capital (not to mention millions of taxpayer dollars in phony investigations) desperately trying to smear Hillary with Benghazi. There was plenty of blame to go around with Benghazi, but the GOP was the most cynical it had ever been (up until that point, and Trump), hysterically, and endlessly trying to get something to stick when there was absolutely nothing to their claims. Even their own "investigations" came to the same conclusions, which they then did their best to bury, releasing on a Thanksgiving weekend (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/225129-gop-led-benghazi-report-purposely-buried-in-news-cycle-democrat).

And how much did Fox, Drudge, Breitbart -- endless promoters of an evidence-free conspiracy theory -- report on that development, or any other substantive development about it? Zero.

And that bit them in the behind when they couldn't convince people to care about Hillary's e-mail scandal, which would have rightly ended almost any other candidate's run, because they'd spent literally years crying wolf about nothing.



The mainstream media definitely has a bias -- however, that bias is several orders of magnitude less great than the conservative sources above. And they definitely do cover liberal wrongdoing -- conservatives just don't read it. They reported non-stop on Hillary's e-mails for months on end.

In 2017, however, the negative news cycle for Republicans never goes away because:

1) The people who work for Trump are so alarmed by his erratic behavior he keeps making them leak damaging revelations,
2) Trump has no impulse control and his insane ravings on Twitter become news stories in and of themselves,
3) Trump has decided to base his entire governing philosophy on arbitrarily doing the opposite of whatever Obama did, even if those policies were in no way partisan, and even when those policies enjoy insanely widespread support among the public.



Directly? Probably not. Though being outraged about how "unfair" the media is when the president you supported, and all his people, just got outed as bald-face lying to the American people for months about not meeting with Russians, the collusion being "fake news," pretty much demonstrates it, though.

What happens when you assume?

I support a few things Trump has tried to do, yes. I also don't support quite a few things he's trying to do. I didn't vote for him or HRC.


And how much did Fox, Drudge, Breitbart -- endless promoters of an evidence-free conspiracy theory -- report on that development, or any other substantive development about it? Zero.


I don't think Fox, Drudge, and Breitbart are reliable news outlets... So...



Directly? Probably not. Though being outraged about how "unfair" the media is when the president you supported, and all his people, just got outed as bald-face lying to the American people for months about not meeting with Russians, the collusion being "fake news," pretty much demonstrates it, though.

Just so much wrong information in this...

I understand you want me to be something I'm not, sorry.

[cwolff]

This part of the emails. This is where I'm thinking its about the Russian government collusion. Maybe I'm just not hip enough to get what these crazy kids are talking about.


Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.
The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

[drauz]

You've spent more time in this thread discussing Obama and Ukraine than the actual Russia collusion issue. You may not be a right winger, but you're adopting a purely conservative set of talking points.

Do you mean the last couple hours?

I've said it quite a few time now. I am waiting for the investigation. You want to play PI and put your Sherlock hat on, go for it. But don't assume I have to.

[drauz]

"So a British publicist, a Russian pop singer, and a Russian real estate mogul walk into a bar

Trump Jr. says "I'll have a rum and collusion"

https://m.popkey.co/24a5b3/q0Exb.gif

[Tgo01]

Forgive my ignorance, but didn't the emails say hed meet someone with info from Russian government to help trumps campaign?

No, the emails came from a British publicist who said the information was highly sensitive and was part of the Russian governments support for Trump.

He later referred to her as a "Russian government attorney." Which again means jack shit.

This is the same shit the Democrats tried to get Jess Sessions for.

"Oh so you DID meet with the Russian ambassador!"

"Well, yes, but it's clear from context I meant I had never met with him as a Trump surrogate."

"COLLUSION! COLLLLLLLLLUSION!!!!!"

[Tgo01]

Trump was told, flat out, that an agent of the Russian government was offering information on Hillary

A fucking Russian attorney! Fucking agent of the Russian government.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UihFCHU4d1g/maxresdefault.jpg

Hey I once had a lengthy conversation with a dog catcher. I guess this means I have ties with the American government!

[Ashlander]

This is the crazy part I don't understand.

Somehow ANY Russian citizen is the Russian government.

I laughed when I saw CNN report that the real estate mogul father "has ties to Putin."

Well fuck. HOW?

Would the CEO of Solyndra be considered to "have ties" with Obama so when anyone speaks with said CEO they are working with the American government?

Would ACORN be considered a government entity and if a foreign national works with anyone from ACORN they are working with the American government?

This bullshit is just mind boggling how people can think this shit works like this.

This story WOULD be a huge bombshell if someone claiming to work for the KGB or worked for some Russian politician had emailed Jr directly and to set up this meeting. That would be huge news and that would probably convince me something fishy is going on.

But emails between a British publicist and Trump Jr is somehow colluding with the Russian government? The fuck?

The funniest part is the real story alone would be embarrassing for Trump. I wouldn't give a flying fuck, but I can see how Trump's Democrat opponents could spin this to show how "un American Trump is" and bullshit like that.

But that's not good enough for the likes of blackmail news and Democrats. No no. They have to take it one step further and say "See? See?! Russian collusion with Trump!"

I also like how the lady herself says she isn't a member of the Russian government but that isn't good enough because TEH MEDIA has spoken.

[Tgo01]

Trump Jr. says "I'll have a rum and collusion"

https://m.popkey.co/24a5b3/q0Exb.gif

That is a better punchline.

I are fail :(

[Tisket]

When you can't dispute the facts- you attack the messenger.

There's a desperate need on the right to attack the journalists who are uncovering incriminating information about the administration and the campaign so they can avoid having to actually talk about what's been uncovered.

Start dealing with the actual facts of the situation. Stop ignoring it. If you can't dispute those facts- then you need to own up to that fact.

What the fuck kind of drugs are you on.

[Ashlander]

This part of the emails. This is where I'm thinking its about the Russian government collusion. Maybe I'm just not hip enough to get what these crazy kids are talking about.

Cause the guy couldn't possibly be wrong about who she works for? I mean she totally had info on Hillary right?

[Tisket]

Unbiased journalism is as mythical as Canadian culture.

I posted a fact.

[Tgo01]

I also like how the lady herself says she isn't a member of the Russian government but that isn't good enough because TEH MEDIA has spoken.

Yup! Let's not forget that! She had an interview and said she's just a lawyer.

But since when do we listen to women around here? The British publicist referred to her as a government lawyer after getting this news from his pop star friend who got the news from his real estate mogul father. It's not like it's possible the British guy misstated it or something.

Oh but blackmail news insists she really does work for the KGB. So case closed.

Let's just go ahead and bring in Sharia law into this, the woman's word only has a fourth of the weight as a man.

[Tisket]

Apparently when time3fun cannot dispute a fact she attacks the messenger.

[cwolff]

I also like how the lady herself says she isn't a member of the Russian government but that isn't good enough because TEH MEDIA has spoken.


A fucking Russian attorney! Fucking agent Russian government.

You guys are as ruthless as Trump when questioning perps. Did she vehemently deny it?

[Tgo01]

Apparently when time3fun cannot dispute a fact she attacks the messenger.

Do you know how many degrees she has in journalism and attacking messengers?

[Ashlander]

I posted a fact.

Isn't hockey Canadian culture?

[Tgo01]

Did she vehemently deny it?

I, guess, what?

[Tisket]

Isn't hockey Canadian culture?

lol

[Ashlander]

You guys are as ruthless as Trump when questioning perps. Did she vehemently deny it?

So innocent until proven guilty unless Republican or Russian got it.

[cwolff]

I, guess, what?
From Washington Examiner July 13th.

Trump: 'I strongly pressed' Putin on Russian meddling and he 'vehemently denied it'

[Tgo01]

Just to see the Democrats put their money where their mouth is...just for the sake of argument let's say the email really was directly from the Russian lawyer herself and she portrayed herself as a Russian government attorney and she had dirty on Hillary Clinton and she wanted to give it to Trump Jr.

And she did.

Okay, so what crime was committed? And don't give me vague bullshit answers like "Collusion!" or "Treason!"

Actually link the part of the law itself that shows this would fall under whatever crime you are saying happened.

[Ashlander]

From Washington Examiner July 13th.

Trump: 'I strongly pressed' Putin on Russian meddling and he 'vehemently denied it'

Kinda like when the big O told him to knock it off and he obviously did.

[cwolff]

So innocent until proven guilty unless Republican or Russian got it.

Its like Charles Krauthammer said.(ill paraphrase a bit,but he definitely compared it to a drug deal) Don Jr. went to do a drug deal, just because the drugs weren't there doesn't mean the police wouldn't have some hard questions for him.

[cwolff]

Kinda like when the big O told him to knock it off and he obviously did.

Time4Fun! They're doing it again.

[Tisket]

Isn't hockey Canadian culture?

Thanks a lot, man. I just researched hockey. I'm such a geek. Canadians stole it from the Egyptians!

True story.

[Ashlander]

Its like Charles Krauthammer said.(ill paraphrase a bit,but he definitely compared it to a drug deal) Don Jr. went to do a drug deal, just because the drugs weren't there doesn't mean the police wouldn't have some hard questions for him.

Except for the part where no laws have been broken so no it's not like a drug deal at all.

[Ashliana]

What the fuck kind of drugs are you on.

My guess would be Time's referring to this (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/category-5-hurricane-white-house-under-siege-by-trump-jrs-russia-revelations/2017/07/11/1e091478-664d-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_whitehouse-910pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f2418fd58e29). So you don't have to read it:

"A handful of Republican operatives close to the White House are scrambling to Trump Jr.’s defense and have begun what could be an extensive campaign to try to discredit some of the journalists who have been reporting on the matter.

Their plan, as one member of the team described it, is to research the reporters’ previous work, in some cases going back years, and to exploit any mistakes or perceived biases. They intend to demand corrections, trumpet errors on social media and feed them to conservative outlets, such as Fox News."

[Ashlander]

Time4Fun! They're doing it again.

Doing what? Comparing like situations? Yeah I guess I am doing it again.

[Ashlander]

Thanks a lot, man. I just researched hockey. I'm such a geek. Canadians stole it from the Egyptians!

True story.

Damn Canadians!

[cwolff]

Except for the part where no laws have been broken so no it's not like a drug deal at all.

I think I get it now. Its like when you go to a hooker and she says "are you a cop?" and if you're a cop you have to say "yes, I'm a cop"

[Ashlander]

I think I get it now. Its like when you go to a hooker and she says "are you a cop?" and if you're a cop you have to say "yes, I'm a cop"

No, you don't get it at all. Prostitution is still illegal in most states while sharing information between two citizens regardless of nationality isn't.

[Ashliana]

No, the emails came from a British publicist who said the information was highly sensitive and was part of the Russian governments support for Trump.

He later referred to her as a "Russian government attorney." Which again means jack shit.

Trump's own people identified her as a member of the Russian government. Trump then eagerly agreed, and did, meet with her -- and then, repeatedly, all the meeting attendees blatantly lied about it.

"WELL, GOLLY JEE, THAT'S JHUST YER LIE-BRUHL GOTCHAS AT WORK!"
-Tgo01, unironically



This is the same shit the Democrats tried to get Jess Sessions for.

"Oh so you DID meet with the Russian ambassador!"

"Well, yes, but it's clear from context I meant I had never met with him as a Trump surrogate."

"COLLUSION! COLLLLLLLLLUSION!!!!!"

Sessions was asked, point blank:

Leahy: Several of the President-Elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?
Sessions: No.

Sessions, much like many others in the Trump world, blatantly lied. Sessions met with Kislyak twice after joining the Trump campaign, in both a group and private setting. Your dislike for facts only reflects on you.


Just to see the Democrats put their money where their mouth is...just for the sake of argument let's say the email really was directly from the Russian lawyer herself and she portrayed herself as a Russian government attorney and she had dirty on Hillary Clinton and she wanted to give it to Trump Jr.

And she did.

Okay, so what crime was committed? And don't give me vague bullshit answers like "Collusion!" or "Treason!"

Actually link the part of the law itself that shows this would fall under whatever crime you are saying happened.

You think this is some kind of brilliant defense -- because you saw some apologist spew it out -- when in reality, it's an affirmative defense that acknowledges their actions. Immorality doesn't always rise to the level of criminality, but you've conveniently forgotten that for the duration of this (and any related) conversation(s).


I also like how the lady herself says she isn't a member of the Russian government but that isn't good enough because TEH MEDIA has spoken.

I also like how you take a Russian attorney's word at face value, as if the media pulled these e-mails --that Trump Jr. posted on Twitter when the NYT was going to imminently release them -- out of thin air.


A fucking Russian attorney! Fucking agent of the Russian government.

Again, this requires you to believe that Trump, Manafort and Kushner all believed her credible enough to meet with, agreed with her motivations, and then for you to have no problem with them lying about it to your face for months on end.

Like I said: Either the most gullible person on the planet and/or for you, your support for Trump is absolute, untouchable, totally unrelated to facts or any kind of sentiment you might have for the US as a nation.

[cwolff]

No, you don't get it at all. Prostitution is still illegal in most states while sharing information between two citizens regardless of nationality isn't.

Hmmm ok. And what if the hooker is provided by my friends dad who is an attorney general from another place and its to help me win an election at home. Is it still cool to meet her, even if she's just a blowup doll that's deflated?

[Tgo01]

Immorality doesn't always rise to the level of criminality

So a crime wasn't committed, it's just "immoral", even though every campaign tries to dig up dirt on their opponent but it's different this time because RUSSIA!

[Ashliana]

So a crime wasn't committed, it's just "immoral", even though every campaign tries to dig up dirt on their opponent but it's different this time because RUSSIA!

You're jumping the gun here by claiming "no crime has been committed." You've asked the question of strangers on the Internet - perhaps you should read some of the reporting on the issue. Y'know, reporting that isn't coming from Breitbart?

Notice how you have absolutely nothing to say about Trump's obvious intentions, or their concealing and lying of their repeated meetings? What you choose to ignore in a person's post says it all.

[Tgo01]

You're jumping the gun here by claiming "no crime has been committed."

Wait, so it IS a crime? Which crime? Quote the relevant text of said crime please.

[Ashliana]

Wait, so it IS a crime? Which crime? Quote the relevant text of said crime please.

Already asked and answered. So how about it? How do you feel about Trump and all his allies repeatedly lying about how they supposedly hadn't met with Russians, hadn't colluded, the very idea was "crazy," "fake news," etc? Anything? No? Nothing to say? Didn't think so.

[Tgo01]

Already asked and answered.

You ain't answering shit. What crime has been committed? Cite the actual law and the relevant text from said law.

[Ashliana]

You ain't answering shit. What crime has been committed? Cite the actual law and the relevant text from said law.

Already asked and answered. Your refusal (or inability) to comprehend English is your problem, not mine. Meanwhile, your response?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

[Tgo01]

Just like I thought.

Even if I go ahead and say the email happened exactly how they say it happened they still ain't got shit.

What crime has been committed? Cite the actual law and the relevant text from said law.

[cwolff]

Here is the Krauthammer quote. I had it wrong. It was stolen goods, not drugs:


“If you get a call to go to a certain place in the middle of the night to pick up stolen goods, and it turns out the stolen goods don’t show up, but the cops show up,” he added, “I think you’re going to have a very weak story saying, ‘Well, I got swindled here.’”

Then he says this:


In the past, Krauthammer has defended Trump against the allegations of collusion because he said there was no “there, there.” Now, though, he says the evidence is right there in “black and white.”

This guy is as big a Republican cheerleader as you get and he rather disturbed by it. Doesn't that give you any pause to reconsider and think this is a kind of a big deal?

[Tgo01]

Here is the Krauthammer quote. I had it wrong. It was stolen goods, not drugs:



Then he says this:



This guy is as big a Republican cheerleader as you get and he rather disturbed by it. Doesn't that give you any pause to reconsider and think this is a kind of a big deal?

I don't give a shit who said it. Where is the crime?

Knowingly accepting stolen goods is a crime. Knowingly being told something is not, even if said information was obtained illegally. If that were the case the government would be busting down the doors of news stations all the time.

[cwolff]

I don't give a shit who said it. Where is the crime?

Knowingly accepting stolen goods is a crime. Knowingly being told something is not, even if said information was obtained illegally. If that were the case the government would be busting down the doors of news stations all the time.

All that matters is a post appeal process criminal conviction? No more ethics, no standards, no values or morality.

[drauz]

All that matters is a post appeal process criminal conviction? No more ethics, no standards, no values or morality.

Politicians almost always live by "its better to ask forgiveness than for permission".

[Tgo01]

All that matters is a post appeal process criminal conviction? No more ethics, no standards, no values or morality.

You're the one who kept alluding it was a crime.

So now we're talking ethics and morals? Like Trump's campaign was the first campaign to ever try to get dirt on their opponents. No. This is just the first time the media went into a frenzy over it 24/7 because they hate this president.

[cwolff]

Politicians almost always live by "its better to ask forgiveness than for permission".

Most politicians at least attempt to avoid even the appearance of impropriety...and release their taxes.


You're the one who kept alluding it was a crime.

So now we're talking ethics and morals? Like Trump's campaign was the first campaign to ever try to get dirt on their opponents. No. This is just the first time the media went into a frenzy over it 24/7 because they hate this president.

Time is a flat circle.

The smoking gun defense is coming from you all in response to ethical lapses. The question has been asked about the ethics of it and none of the trump defenders will answer. They deflect by going back to "what's illegal here"

Now, I know that his actions are indefensible, we all know that. I think we just want to be reassured that even the trump fans see that this was bad.

[Tgo01]

Now, I know that his actions are indefensible, we all know that. I think we just want to be reassured that even the trump fans see that this was bad.

Bad in the sense that no political campaign should do this? Sure. Yeah.

Bad in the sense that the Trump campaign did something unique and we should all act aghast that a politician would even think of doing something like this? No. Stop. You're being played.

[Tgo01]

"I support pedophilia" - Tg01 - tyrant-201

tyrant-201 needs to be banned for impersonating me.

[tyrant-201]

"I support pedophilia" - Tg01 - tyrant-201

tyrant-201 needs to be banned for impersonating me.

on the contrary, you need to be banned for impersonating me impersonating you.

[cwolff]

Bad in the sense that no political campaign should do this? Sure. Yeah.

Bad in the sense that the Trump campaign did something unique and we should all act aghast that a politician would even think of doing something like this? No. Stop. You're being played.

Well that's good. There is some common ground.

[cwolff]

on the contrary, you need to be banned for impersonating me impersonating you.

What the hell are you guys even awake for. Its late

[tyrant-201]

What the hell are you guys even awake for. Its late

It's only midnight! I'm a left coaster

[Tenlaar]

Bad in the sense that no political campaign should do this? Sure. Yeah.

Now that you've admitted that a campaign should not do what Trump's did...do you think that there should be any consequences for it, or that we should all just accept it and be okay with it?