Obama found his excuse

[radamanthys]

Taxes never "have" to go up, it's just the way politicians talk people like you into giving them more power. They convince you that there just isn't any way other than taking more of your money to do the things that you believe need to be fixed. They play upon your ignorance of the system and your feelings to the point you almost WANT to give them more money. "It's for the children!" or "Why wouldn't you want to help the poor!?" or "Everyone has a right to health care!"

It has nothing to do with helping the poor or making sure everyone has health care and everything to do with creating more power/money for themselves as a group.

Very, very true.

[Latrinsorm]

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ignot]

Taxes never "have" to go up

So your saying taxes, under no circumstances and regardless of party/president, ever need to go up? I'm sorry but that's just very unrealistic and naive. If that's not what you meant then please rephrase.

It has nothing to do with helping the poor or making sure everyone has health care

This comes off like your saying taxes are only going up because of these issues when the real reason taxes are going to go up is because of our current economic and financial crisis. In my mind, taxes going up is practically a certainty and I have been preparing for this well before the elections took place. I think Democrats are much more eager to raise taxes and while I think Republicans may have been able to delay a tax increase, they would still have had to increase taxes eventually to fix this mess we are in. Saying that taxes never have to go up just doesn't make sense. I hope taxes don't go up but when they do, Obama is going to be a real douche after promising no increases this whole time. I'm tired of people saying "well that's politics."

[radamanthys]

So your saying taxes, under no circumstances and regardless of party/president, ever need to go up? I'm sorry but that's just very unrealistic and naive. If that's not what you meant then please rephrase.



This comes off like your saying taxes are only going up because of these issues when the real reason taxes are going to go up is because of our current economic and financial crisis. In my mind, taxes going up is practically a certainty and I have been preparing for this well before the elections took place. I think Democrats are much more eager to raise taxes and while I think Republicans may have been able to delay a tax increase, they would still have had to increase taxes eventually to fix this mess we are in. Saying that taxes never have to go up just doesn't make sense. I hope taxes don't go up but when they do, Obama is going to be a real douche after promising no increases this whole time. I'm tired of people saying "well that's politics."

Taxes shouldn't need to go up, considering the rate at which they are currently taken in. If government were responsible with its spending, taxes would be raised and lowered based upon actual need for provision of integral services.

Taxes are going up because the government feels the need to spend more of our money. That's what they do- it's their only job. They spend our money in ways that we (individually or private enterprise included) could not. They maintain their power that way.

Consider it this way- if the federal government were to disappear tomorrow, what would be the first couple of things needed back? I'd say the military and law enforcement, for one. Certain necessary regulatory/protection agencies for another- FDA, CDC, etc.

I think of it like a cell phone. People want the iphone government- they spend more than they can afford on something that they barely use the features of- and if they do, have no real necessary need to. The marketing is excellent- politicians are pros. But nobody is making the 'responsible' decision. The features on an iphone are nice. But very few people need them, and if they do, they should likely have a blackberry, instead. They're certainly not worth going into debt over. Currently, with deficit spending, we're buying a new iphone every month, and it's breaking our respective banks. It's financially irresponsible. And the politicians are raising the price every month. Would you be ok with that scenario?

[Ignot]

Taxes shouldn't need to go up, considering the rate at which they are currently taken in.

I see your point but taxes have been very very low during the Bush years. We all had a nice ride with our low taxes but now its time to get back to reality. It's kind of like when you get directtv and they give you 3 months for $65 but the regular bill is really $85. That 3 months was nice and then when it goes to $85 your like "shit directtv sucks!". Shit, I'm coming off like I like high taxes or something and that's not the case, nobody likes paying taxes but I think I realize the necessity in it. Eh, there is no right or wrong with this stuff, it's all opinion.

[radamanthys]

I see your point but taxes have been very very low during the Bush years. We all had a nice ride with our low taxes but now its time to get back to reality. It's kind of like when you get directtv and they give you 3 months for $65 but the regular bill is really $85. That 3 months was nice and then when it goes to $85 your like "shit directtv sucks!". Shit, I'm coming off like I like high taxes or something and that's not the case, nobody likes paying taxes but I think I realize the necessity in it. Eh, there is no right or wrong with this stuff, it's all opinion.

There is a necessity for taxes, but it's being abused. As for the directTV example: how would you feel if every month they put in 100 more channels that you watch maybe one of on occasion, then raised the price by over 10$ every month? Mind that you're forced to pay because you're in a contract.

Taxes weren't low, they are still at around 1/3 to 1/2 of income. You basically work as a slave to the federal government for half the year before you make any actual money.

Even the low end, at 33% is pretty ridiculous.

Taxes don't 'have' to be raised. Spending by the government forces them to be inflicted on us. The costs of relevant services has not increased that dramatically. It's solely been poor decision-making and power grabbing on the part of our politicians: From poorly run wars to socialistic power centralization.

[Ignot]

There is a necessity for taxes, but it's being abused. As for the directTV example: how would you feel if every month they put in 100 more channels that you watch maybe one of on occasion, then raised the price by over 10$ every month? Mind that you're forced to pay because you're in a contract.

It's not like that at all.

Taxes weren't low, they are still at around 1/3 to 1/2 of income. You basically work as a slave to the federal government for half the year before you make any actual money.

Even the low end, at 33% is pretty ridiculous.

No, our tax rates aren't anything like that. Who is paying 1/2 income? I think if you make over $372+k it drops you in the 35% tax bracket, which is our highest, that's not the low end. The real shit that gets me is the tax rates on bonuses. I'm tired of that shit and maybe that's where your getting that from.

Taxes don't 'have' to be raised. Spending by the government forces them to be inflicted on us. The costs of relevant services has not increased that dramatically. It's solely been poor decision-making and power grabbing on the part of our politicians: From poorly run wars to socialistic power centralization.

So your saying all things being equal if everything is run in the best fashion then they should be able to manage without raising taxes? Yeah, I can agree to that, it makes sense. It doesn't ever happen but it makes sense. Here is to hoping

[radamanthys]

It's not like that at all.

Why not? They arbitrarily raise rates and tell us they have to, all while providing the same general level of service.

No, our tax rates aren't anything like that. Who is paying 1/2 income? I think if you make over $372+k it drops you in the 35% tax bracket, which is our highest, that's not the low end. The real shit that gets me is the tax rates on bonuses. I'm tired of that shit and maybe that's where your getting that from.

I'm referring to total tax, and not just federal. One may say that it doesn't matter or isn't pertinent to this discussion, but to an individual, the total tax is what matters, not where it's being paid.

This is an interesting report that helps explain. I'd encourage anyone interested to at least look at the graphs and such.
http://www.fiscalaccountability.org/...hp?content=cog

So your saying all things being equal if everything is run in the best fashion then they should be able to manage without raising taxes? Yeah, I can agree to that, it makes sense. It doesn't ever happen but it makes sense. Here is to hoping

Where taxes are now, if things were run properly and in a lean fashion, they'd not just stay the same, they'd be lower.

[Daniel]

Why not? They arbitrarily raise rates and tell us they have to, all while providing the same general level of service.


I'm referring to total tax, and not just federal. One may say that it doesn't matter or isn't pertinent to this discussion, but to an individual, the total tax is what matters, not where it's being paid.

This is an interesting report that helps explain. I'd encourage anyone interested to at least look at the graphs and such.
http://www.fiscalaccountability.org/...hp?content=cog


Where taxes are now, if things were run properly and in a lean fashion, they'd not just stay the same, they'd be lower.

You do realize that we pay less taxes now than when Reagan was president right?

Just to put things in a bit of a perspective for you.

[Geshron]

Yes, bring back the last 8 years ASAP, desperation and mounting loss build character.