#winning

[Methais]

Just to make sure we never forget the stupidity that is our retard champion.. I give you two quotes, a mere 90 minutes apart:

"I'm not bothered if anyone actually aspires to be on welfare" 10:19am

"I thought we agreed that welfare was something people would not aspire to" 11:46am

This is how we know you are retarded.. and copy/paste shit from your favorite leftist sites.

You have zero principles, just talking points others came up with.

Back you fucking dumbass.

[Back]

I’ll be the first to say that we have a flawed healthcare system that needs to be reformed, but do you think Canada or the UK (I’m intentionally picking highly developed western countries) have better healthcare than the U.S.?

State funded (don’t call it free because it isn’t) healthcare generally sucks. You have long wait times to see a specialist. The quality of care between private and public is substantially different. Public healthcare eliminates choice. You have to see the doctor the government tells you to see. With public healthcare, the government is literally incentivized to let the elderly die who are the biggest cost burden on the system.

Do you think VA hospitals in America are the model for the perfect healthcare system? @Gelston you are a vet, tell us your experience with VA care.

I'd actually be interested to hear what anyone in the military had to say about it. From what I've read our military has very socialist aspects.

• It's government run and funded.
• Personnel are guaranteed salaries, housing, healthcare, education benefits, and retirement pensions — regardless of profit or market performance.
• Its funded through public taxation, and its services (national defense, disaster response, etc.) are provided as public goods.
• Citizens don't directly pay for services and access is not denied because of wealth or lack of it.
• It does not exist to generate profit.
• Internal resources are allocated by need not supply and demand.

Of course it serves a capitalist society but structurally it is very socialist.

As for healthcare... 50+ countries offer universal healthcare, many with low or no out-of-pocket costs. Dozens are considered successful by international health metrics. These systems differ in structure but share the principle of healthcare as a public right, not a commodity. Of the world's wealthiest countries only the US does not offer free healthcare despite spending the most on it per capita.

The US could absolutely do it if our lawmakers would get out of the pockets of the healthcare/insurance/pharmaceutical/petrochemical industries.

[Back]

Jesus fucking Christ.

Profits aren’t ‘owed’ to workers beyond what they agreed to earn. If you want more, work harder or learn skills that command a higher wage. Forcing businesses to ‘share’ profits sounds nice, but it destroys incentives, kills growth, and ends with everyone poorer.

And spare me the ‘welfare for the wealthy’ regurgitated tagline. The rich already pay almost all the income taxes in this country. If you think taking more from job creators will magically help the poor, you’ve learned nothing from every failed socialist experiment in history.

Profit does not exist without labor. Who decides the share of profit that labor gets? The one/s who provide and receive the capital. Labor's share of profit has declined in this country over the years from 70% post WWII to about 60% now. Wages have not kept up with capital's take of the profit. Unions lately have been hammered by corporate bought politicians so that labor has a weaker position.

This shouldn't surprise anyone. Capital would leave labor a share of 1% or less if they could get away with it.

The wealthy dodge taxes through loopholes. Everyone knows this except you apparently. Those loopholes need to close. All that profit generated by labor needs to return to labor in some form weather its through wages or services or shares or whatever. We need to ensure that wealth distribution is more fair.

You accuse me of repeating taglines. Well, it gets repeated because nothing changes. If things change the labor taglines will go away but I doubt your slave driving demands of "WORK HARDER" or "BE BETTER" will ever stop coming from the one little guy at the top who gets the majority stake.

[Back]

Don't mistake criticism for hate.

[Methais]

I'd actually be interested to hear what anyone in the military had to say about it. From what I've read our military has very socialist aspects.

• It's government run and funded.
• Personnel are guaranteed salaries, housing, healthcare, education benefits, and retirement pensions — regardless of profit or market performance.
• Its funded through public taxation, and its services (national defense, disaster response, etc.) are provided as public goods.
• Citizens don't directly pay for services and access is not denied because of wealth or lack of it.
• It does not exist to generate profit.
• Internal resources are allocated by need not supply and demand.

Of course it serves a capitalist society but structurally it is very socialist.

As for healthcare... 50+ countries offer universal healthcare, many with low or no out-of-pocket costs. Dozens are considered successful by international health metrics. These systems differ in structure but share the principle of healthcare as a public right, not a commodity. Of the world's wealthiest countries only the US does not offer free healthcare despite spending the most on it per capita.

The US could absolutely do it if our lawmakers would get out of the pockets of the healthcare/insurance/pharmaceutical/petrochemical industries.

[Tgo01]

I'd actually be interested to hear what anyone in the military had to say about it. From what I've read our military has very socialist aspects.

• It's government run and funded.
• Personnel are guaranteed salaries, housing, healthcare, education benefits, and retirement pensions — regardless of profit or market performance.
• Its funded through public taxation, and its services (national defense, disaster response, etc.) are provided as public goods.
• Citizens don't directly pay for services and access is not denied because of wealth or lack of it.
• It does not exist to generate profit.
• Internal resources are allocated by need not supply and demand.

Do you literally just make shit up or what? I mean your entire list is laughable, but you think anything government funded is "socialist"? Paying workers and giving them benefits is socialist?

As for healthcare... 50+ countries offer universal healthcare, many with low or no out-of-pocket costs. Dozens are considered successful by international health metrics.

50+ countries offer universal healthcare, dozens successful. So by your own numbers less than 50% could be successful? Sounds about right.

[Methais]

Profit does not exist without labor. Who decides the share of profit that labor gets? The one/s who provide and receive the capital. Labor's share of profit has declined in this country over the years from 70% post WWII to about 60% now. Wages have not kept up with capital's take of the profit. Unions lately have been hammered by corporate bought politicians so that labor has a weaker position.

This shouldn't surprise anyone. Capital would leave labor a share of 1% or less if they could get away with it.

The wealthy dodge taxes through loopholes. Everyone knows this except you apparently. Those loopholes need to close. All that profit generated by labor needs to return to labor in some form weather its through wages or services or shares or whatever. We need to ensure that wealth distribution is more fair.

You accuse me of repeating taglines. Well, it gets repeated because nothing changes. If things change the labor taglines will go away but I doubt your slave driving demands of "WORK HARDER" or "BE BETTER" will ever stop coming from the one little guy at the top who gets the majority stake.

Yet you're perfectly fine with illegals flooding the country and undercutting the wages that you say already can't keep up.

Good job continuing to be retarded.

[Back]

Do you literally just make shit up or what? I mean your entire list is laughable, but you think anything government funded is "socialist"? Paying workers and giving them benefits is socialist?



50+ countries offer universal healthcare, dozens successful. So by your own numbers less than 50% could be successful? Sounds about right.

Never just take my or anyone else's word for it. If you have questions about things use the greatest resource humanity has at it's fingertips to educate yourself. Don't rely on one voice. Cross check multiple sources. It's all there.

[Tgo01]

Never just take my or anyone else's word for it. If you have questions about things use the greatest resource humanity has at it's fingertips to educate yourself. Don't rely on one voice. Cross check multiple sources. It's all there.

Yeah. Literally no one outside of insane people such as yourself would ever say something dumb like "Paying people a salary and giving them benefits is socialism!"

I mean, isn't that like the exact opposite of socialism? Isn't one of the core tenets of capitalism is paying someone a wage in exchange for their labor?

[Suppressed Poet]

I'd actually be interested to hear what anyone in the military had to say about it. From what I've read our military has very socialist aspects.

• It's government run and funded.
• Personnel are guaranteed salaries, housing, healthcare, education benefits, and retirement pensions — regardless of profit or market performance.
• Its funded through public taxation, and its services (national defense, disaster response, etc.) are provided as public goods.
• Citizens don't directly pay for services and access is not denied because of wealth or lack of it.
• It does not exist to generate profit.
• Internal resources are allocated by need not supply and demand.

Of course it serves a capitalist society but structurally it is very socialist.

As for healthcare... 50+ countries offer universal healthcare, many with low or no out-of-pocket costs. Dozens are considered successful by international health metrics. These systems differ in structure but share the principle of healthcare as a public right, not a commodity. Of the world's wealthiest countries only the US does not offer free healthcare despite spending the most on it per capita.

The US could absolutely do it if our lawmakers would get out of the pockets of the healthcare/insurance/pharmaceutical/petrochemical industries.

I suspect you don’t understand the definition of socialism. Using that fancy tool you lecture us about using:

Socialism is a political and economic system where the means of production are owned and controlled by the public, either directly or through the state, rather than by private individuals or corporations. It's characterized by a focus on social ownership of resources and production, aiming for a more egalitarian society. Socialism encompasses a range of diverse economic and social systems, with variations in the role of markets and the extent of state control.

Having a military, or social services, or federal regulation on certain industries does not mean America is socialist country. Stop saying America is a socialist country. It is not.

If America were to nationalize healthcare, yes that would be a move towards socialism and I would oppose that at every measure. State sponsored healthcare sucks ass for the reasons I previously mentioned. I want to choose my own doctor and care plan between a professional & myself without government intervention. If I need an MRI or CAT scan, I don’t want to be put on a government waiting list for months. When I become elderly and need more care, I don’t want the government to cut me off & tell me I need to just die because it is costing them too much money. My late father was an veteran and he absolutely refused to ever see a VA doctor for good reason.