Combat Maneuver - Cunning Defense bug?

[drumpel]

I posted on discord, but who the fuck knows if the GMs even read that stuff. I'll probably toss a bug in game if nothing comes from the post on discord....though I swear bugging in game doesn't seem to do much either. It took the GMs 6+ months to fix the skin bundling bug in game that could let you bypass skin quality requirements for bounties.

The thing is, I don't know for sure if Cunning Defense (CD) is bugged or not because I've only tested on the test server and I don't really have a good way to test in game without possibly killing a target or quickly changing skills without the target being under level 20. In the end it could just be an issue with the test server.

I was bored and I didn't feel like really hunting any characters today so I opted to play around with SMR defense on the test server.

Character being cast at is my warmage. Level 67.

Here are is skills with all known Ascension ranks:

(at level 67), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
  Skill Name                         | Current Current
                                     |   Bonus   Ranks
  Armor Use..........................|     178      78
  Shield Use.........................|     168      68
  Combat Maneuvers...................|     170      70
  Edged Weapons......................|     174      74
  Brawling...........................|      20       4
  Physical Fitness...................|     176      76
  Magic Item Use.....................|      90      20
  Harness Power......................|     154      54
  Elemental Lore - Air...............|     138      39
  Elemental Lore - Earth.............|     130      35
  Perception.........................|     170      70
  Climbing...........................|     145      45
  Swimming...........................|     140      40

Spell Lists
  Major Elemental....................|              20

Spell Lists
  Wizard.............................|              13

He wears Studded Leather with +6 Damage and +2 Crit CER. I kept him spell free for all casts, unless otherwise noted

Here are the SMR rolls from a level 100 wizard casting 917 at him.

((Overall SMR result - Die Roll) = SMR Defense) The higher the number for SRM Defense the easier it is for the wizard to hit him. The numbers I have below are the SMR Defense.
As long as the Die Roll is greater than (100 - SMR Defense), the warmage will get hit. In the results below, for example SMR Defense in Defensive = 126. The Die Roll has to be greater than a -26 to successfully hit the warmage with a cast of 917.

This is his base SMR Defense, no spells, no Cunning Defense, just his skills you see listed above.

Defensive = 126
Guarded = 128
Neutral = 131
Forward = 134
Advance = 137
Offensive =139

When I add back in 5 ranks of Cunning Defense, the CM is supposed to add +30 phantom ranks of Dodge. Below are the SMR defense results of having 5 ranks of CD:

Defensive = 126
Guarded = 128
Neutral = 132
Forward = 134
Advance = 137
Offensive =139

When I remove the 5 ranks of CD and add in an actual 30 ranks of Dodge, these are the results:

Defensive = 123
Guarded = 124
Neutral = 128
Forward = 129
Advance = 133
Offensive =135

As you can see, 30 ranks of actual Dodge skill are roughly giving 4 points of SMR defense. Whereas 5 ranks of CD that provides 30 phantom ranks of Dodge does nothing.


Just to see if the issue is with Phantom Dodge ranks, I went ahead and tested with the Mass Blur spell. This spell, at it's base, provides +20 Phantom Dodge ranks. I untrained dodge ranks and only left 911 active, here are the results:

Defensive = 124
Guarded = 126
Neutral = 129
Forward = 131
Advance = 135
Offensive =136

This time I had no spells active and trained up to 20 ranks of Dodge skill, here are the results:

Defensive = 124
Guarded = 126
Neutral = 129
Forward = 131
Advance = 135
Offensive =136

As you can see it appears that phantom dodge ranks are being applied properly from the Mass Blur spell.


This leads me to believe that Cunning Defense's phantom dodge ranks are not being applied correctly (or at all) OR it could just be that Cunning Defense isn't working on the test server.

[Methais]

I posted on discord, but who the fuck knows if the GMs even read that stuff. I'll probably toss a bug in game if nothing comes from the post on discord....though I swear bugging in game doesn't seem to do much either. It took the GMs 6+ months to fix the skin bundling bug in game that could let you bypass skin quality requirements for bounties.

The thing is, I don't know for sure if Cunning Defense (CD) is bugged or not because I've only tested on the test server and I don't really have a good way to test in game without possibly killing a target or quickly changing skills without the target being under level 20. In the end it could just be an issue with the test server.

I was bored and I didn't feel like really hunting any characters today so I opted to play around with SMR defense on the test server.

Character being cast at is my warmage. Level 67.

Here are is skills with all known Ascension ranks:

(at level 67), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
  Skill Name                         | Current Current
                                     |   Bonus   Ranks
  Armor Use..........................|     178      78
  Shield Use.........................|     168      68
  Combat Maneuvers...................|     170      70
  Edged Weapons......................|     174      74
  Brawling...........................|      20       4
  Physical Fitness...................|     176      76
  Magic Item Use.....................|      90      20
  Harness Power......................|     154      54
  Elemental Lore - Air...............|     138      39
  Elemental Lore - Earth.............|     130      35
  Perception.........................|     170      70
  Climbing...........................|     145      45
  Swimming...........................|     140      40

Spell Lists
  Major Elemental....................|              20

Spell Lists
  Wizard.............................|              13

He wears Studded Leather with +6 Damage and +2 Crit CER. I kept him spell free for all casts, unless otherwise noted

Here are the SMR rolls from a level 100 wizard casting 917 at him.

((Overall SMR result - Die Roll) = SMR Defense) The higher the number for SRM Defense the easier it is for the wizard to hit him. The numbers I have below are the SMR Defense.
As long as the Die Roll is greater than (100 - SMR Defense), the warmage will get hit. In the results below, for example SMR Defense in Defensive = 126. The Die Roll has to be greater than a -26 to successfully hit the warmage with a cast of 917.

This is his base SMR Defense, no spells, no Cunning Defense, just his skills you see listed above.

Defensive = 126
Guarded = 128
Neutral = 131
Forward = 134
Advance = 137
Offensive =139

When I add back in 5 ranks of Cunning Defense, the CM is supposed to add +30 phantom ranks of Dodge. Below are the SMR defense results of having 5 ranks of CD:

Defensive = 126
Guarded = 128
Neutral = 132
Forward = 134
Advance = 137
Offensive =139

When I remove the 5 ranks of CD and add in an actual 30 ranks of Dodge, these are the results:

Defensive = 123
Guarded = 124
Neutral = 128
Forward = 129
Advance = 133
Offensive =135

As you can see, 30 ranks of actual Dodge skill are roughly giving 4 points of SMR defense. Whereas 5 ranks of CD that provides 30 phantom ranks of Dodge does nothing.


Just to see if the issue is with Phantom Dodge ranks, I went ahead and tested with the Mass Blur spell. This spell, at it's base, provides +20 Phantom Dodge ranks. I untrained dodge ranks and only left 911 active, here are the results:

Defensive = 124
Guarded = 126
Neutral = 129
Forward = 131
Advance = 135
Offensive =136

This time I had no spells active and trained up to 20 ranks of Dodge skill, here are the results:

Defensive = 124
Guarded = 126
Neutral = 129
Forward = 131
Advance = 135
Offensive =136

As you can see it appears that phantom dodge ranks are being applied properly from the Mass Blur spell.


This leads me to believe that Cunning Defense's phantom dodge ranks are not being applied correctly (or at all) OR it could just be that Cunning Defense isn't working on the test server.

A friend of mine sent me this a few weeks ago, if it gives you any indicator of how quickly Simu fixes bugs:

>You have been awarded 1,000 Experience and 1,000 Fame by Azidaer for: "That bug typo you submitted back in 2009, about "spell" missing from 325 imbed messaging, finally got fixed. Woo!"


Let's look at this again, but a little more closely:

>You have been awarded 1,000 Experience and 1,000 Fame by Azidaer for: "That bug typo you submitted back in 2009, about "spell" missing from 325 imbed messaging, finally got fixed. Woo!"

[drumpel]

Someone suggested that Cunning Defense might only work on PSM skills and not aid with SMR defense against spells, which may be why there is no change when having the skill active and having spells cast at you.

Seems odd a skill that gives phantom dodge ranks doesn't aid with bolstering all SMR defense checks. Then again, they way they make 506 reduce RT for some things, but not others and then how 535 reduces RT for other things, but not the things that 506 works for....Simu's logic is clearly broke as fuck.

[gilchristr]

Its starting to look like one of those pound buttons at a crosswalk, that pedestrians can hit for emotional reasons only

[Mobius1]

Cunning defense only helps against combat maneuvers and nothing else.

[drumpel]

Cunning defense only helps against combat maneuvers and nothing else.

They need to remove the "phantom dodge ranks" from the description of the skill. 911 gives phantom dodge ranks and helps with everything. 618 gives phantom dodge ranks and helps with everything.

Cunning defense gives phantom dodge ranks and only helps with maneuvers....WTF?

They should change the skill and give +1 to your SMR defense for combat maneuvers only. For every rank you learn you get +1 and no longer mention phantom dodge ranks since these aren't really phantom dodge ranks because they don't help like phantom dodge ranks do from spells.
For most people when they hit rank 5 of Cunning Defense they get 4+/- points of SMR defense. So just give every rank of Cunning Defense a +1 to your combat maneuver SMR defense seems like a fair trade off instead of phantom dodge ranks that don't function like other phantom dodge ranks.


I understand that Simu's logic is fucked, but they really should try to start having some kind of structuring/normalcy somewhere. Then again, what do you expect from a team that redesigns the haste spell and splits up into two spells so one spell makes you fast for some tasks but not others and the other spell makes you fast for tasks that the first one doesn't, but it doesn't make you fast for other tasks....

This shit is fucked up.

[Mobius1]

What I wish it did was perform as if you had knowledge in a combat maneuver.

It's especially annoying as it is, since it gives almost no benefit to a square except at early levels. It at the very least needs to be a flat bonus.