Swift Boat Vets to set record straight

[Prestius]

Originally posted by Celtic


Dude, I don't give a rats ass what either of them was doing, I am sick and tired of Kerry's proven lies and flip-flops.

As I've said before --- I don't care about it either. The ONLY reason it keeps coming up is because the Bush Campaign keeps BRINGING it up. Bush has a proven track record of doing some pretty nasty thiings to Vets who are running against him - look at the smear campaign used against McCain and Max Cleland. Does a war record from 30 years ago really matter all that much in a presidential election? Not really. Although - since we are currently at war - I'm thinking a guy who has actually seen battle might do a better job of leading the troops than one who spent his time protecting the bar and saloons in Florida, Georgia and Texas.

Did Bush lie to the American People? From the evidence presented even at the 9-11 commission I concluded that he, BUSH, was misled by Tenent and some of the others in the intelligence community.

And you ask me if *I'm* blind? Holy crap Celtic. Bush and his cronies have had a hard on for Iraq and Saddam for YEARS. Try looking up the PNAC sometime - and if you really are interested in how poor Bush got all that bad Intel, Google up "Office of Special Plans" and see what that gets you. Seriously. They wanted Iraq from day 1. 9-11 merely gave them the excuse. It was an unconscionable class-A hijack.

I am not a fan of war. But Prestius, I lived in NYC. I saw, with horror the images of these sick people flying our airplanes into the twin towers and those images will forever be in my head. To think of those people on both the planes, in the towers, I thank GOD that HE was able to save as many as he did. 3000 people died that day, and that day I wished every radical muslim dead. I still feel as strongly about it today as I did then.

Brother I am there wth you. And this is the part that I don't get - what makes you think that I feel any differently? What gives you the impression that the Repubs somehow have the monopoly on outrage over 9-11. I think we *still* should be going after every radical muslim out there right NOW. This is *exactly* why I think hitting Iraq was just the stupidest thing we could have done - shit why didn't we just bomb the fuck out of Mexico while we were at it - they had about as much connnection to al Quaeda and 9-11 as Saddam and Iraq.

I want us to hunt down those bastards just as badly as you do. But .. dude .. Afghanistan? Remember al Quaeda and and the Taliban? They're back! And with porous borders with Pakistan (a country with Nukes, BTW) perhaps we should be paying more attention there? And all the money we spent on getting Saddam - what about protecting our own country? Ports, chem plants, rails, airports, 1st responders, more eyes on the street.

Did Iraq have something to do with 9/11? Other then allowing training from 1996 through 2000 on their soil, no. Did Iraq have WMD? Yes, and they find more and of the weapons every day. Read Reuters. Not two weeks ago we found 11 missles buried under 6" of concrete all set to receive nuclear devices. Every day we find mortar shells, artillery shells all laced with saren gas.

Come on Celtic, you're smarter than that. Tehcnically what you say it true, but we're talking about going to WAR here. Pretty flimsy reasoning there. Osama thought Saddam was an infidel. If there was any training of al Quaeda in Iraq it was at the Northern border in an area NOT controlled by Saddam. That saren gas is *years* old. No what doubts he had it at one time. A bunker? What the hell happened to "they could strike within 45 minutes" - "don't let the smoking gun be a mushroom cloud".

I'm sorry - but it was one big fucking deception.

My god, are you all just blind?

I ask myself the same question about those who buy into the Bush plan.

Originally posted by Parkbandit

And Celtic.. you are wasting your breath. Far too many people are living in the 9-10-01 world and are either oblivious or ignorant of the way the world works today.

Yeah .. you keep saying that Parkbandit. And believe it or not, I'm just as aware of the threats and dangers in the world as you are. Just because I think that Bush and his cronies are idiots (at best) and criminals at the worst for hijacking the memory and woldwide support we had from 9-11 and using it to fulfill some neocon pipedream, doesn't make me any less aware of the stark realities of the world today. I want to get the bastards who attacked us, and who continue to attack us. But, as I've said before, fighting Iraq is NOT fighting terrorism and to me that's the worst sin of all.

-P

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Prestius
Bush has a proven track record of doing some pretty nasty thiings to Vets who are running against him - look at the smear campaign used against McCain and Max Cleland.

Putting the blame on Bush for this or the cheap shots taken against McCain is like blaming Kerry for anything moveon.org says.

[Back]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Prestius
Bush has a proven track record of doing some pretty nasty thiings to Vets who are running against him - look at the smear campaign used against McCain and Max Cleland.

Putting the blame on Bush for this or the cheap shots taken against McCain is like blaming Kerry for anything moveon.org says.

OMFG I AGREE WIT LATRINSORM

[Parkbandit]

Part of Saddam's plan was to let the world believe it DID have WMD. He wanted to ensure that countries like Iran, US, England, etc.. thought good and hard before they invaded. There was plenty of 'chatter' that Saddam initiated that made the world believe he did have a large scale WMD programs in place for this reason.

Now.. you can complain about our intelligence departments for falling for this ruse if you like.. you can question whether they really did have WMDs... But I believe George Bush felt that there was an imminent threat from Iraq and a link with the terrorists and he took action to protect this country. It's a great conspiracy theory that he did it because he had to finish his father's work.. or that he heard it from God.. but the truth is he (and most of Congress) did it to pre-empt an attack on us.

I personally believe if Kerry were in that position 4 years ago, we would still be asking the world if we can put sanctions against Afganistan. I simply don't believe that he has what it takes to get the job done... that he would rather bargain for peace than to do what needs to be done.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Prestius
Bush has a proven track record of doing some pretty nasty thiings to Vets who are running against him - look at the smear campaign used against McCain and Max Cleland.

Putting the blame on Bush for this or the cheap shots taken against McCain is like blaming Kerry for anything moveon.org says.

OMFG I AGREE WIT LATRINSORM

OMFG! I AGREE WITH BACKLASH!

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Now.. you can complain about our intelligence departments for falling for this ruse if you like..

Selective memory? You've forgotten about the report that says the intelligence community did not fall for anything? The conclusion was quite clear: 99% of the so-called evidence that Iraq was a threat was, in effect, manufactured.

One - one - single incident was mentioned as having been reasonable to suspect Iraq might be seeking uranium. All the rest? Were twisted, skewed, and manipulated. They deliberately set about creating a situation where Iraq looked like it posed a threat on paper while ignoring every single contradictory piece of evidence.

And the commission still has not commented on whether or not Bush and his flunkies 'encouraged' this to give him the justification he wanted. To say this is Saddam's fault is ridiculous. And you all claim Democrats are blind? Talk about the pot and the kettle.

Raven

[Edited on 8-9-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Now.. you can complain about our intelligence departments for falling for this ruse if you like..

Selective memory? You've forgotten about the report that says the intelligence community did not fall for anything? The conclusion was quite clear: 99% of the so-called evidence that Iraq was a threat was, in effect, manufactured.

One - one - single incident was mentioned as having been reasonable to suspect Iraq might be seeking uranium. All the rest? Were twisted, skewed, and manipulated. They deliberately set about creating a situation where Iraq looked like it posed a threat on paper while ignoring every single contradictory piece of evidence.

And the commission still has not commented on whether or not Bush and his flunkies 'encouraged' this to give him the justification he wanted. To say this is Saddam's fault is ridiculous. And you all claim Democrats are blind? Talk about the pot and the kettle.

Raven

[Edited on 8-9-2004 by Ravenstorm]

Actually, they did comment and say that there was no evidence of such a conspiracy... though I imagine that would fuck up your continued belief that George W just wanted to go to war for his Daddy.

[Ravenstorm]

No. They said that there was no evidence Bush ordered them to produce the results he wanted. They did NOT answer whether or not Bush put pressure on them and encouraged the falsification.

Raven

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
No. They said that there was no evidence Bush ordered them to produce the results he wanted. They did NOT answer whether or not Bush put pressure on them and encouraged the falsification.

Raven

Then there's still hope for your conspiracy theory!? CONGRATS RAVEN!

I also heard there was a press release about Area 51 and you know what? They never once mentioned that there was NOT aliens there.

[Ravenstorm]

Sorry, I'm not into conspiracy theories. Neither is the bipartisan commission - you know, the one with the Republicans on it? - that refused to issue a report on that question until after the election.

Not that I expect it would make any difference to you or the rest of the 'blind'.

Raven