Things that made you Facepalm today (Political Version)

[Solkern]

How does this add up when you can spread it just as easily while vaccinated?

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/ar...kthrough-cases

Now, if you hop on over to the Virginia Dept. of Health's breakthrough-cases dashboard, or "COVID-19 Cases by Vaccination Status," you'll see a stat that says:

“Unvaccinated people in the state developed COVID-19 at a rate of 7.4 times that of fully vaccinated people and 2.4 times that of partially vaccinated people.”
That is based on VDH data from January 17, 2021, through Sept. 18, 2021.

As an example.

[Bhaalizmo]

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/ar...kthrough-cases

Now, if you hop on over to the Virginia Dept. of Health's breakthrough-cases dashboard, or "COVID-19 Cases by Vaccination Status," you'll see a stat that says:

“Unvaccinated people in the state developed COVID-19 at a rate of 7.4 times that of fully vaccinated people and 2.4 times that of partially vaccinated people.”
That is based on VDH data from January 17, 2021, through Sept. 18, 2021.

As an example.

Comparatively, you can look up any of your local regional hospitals and they should have published Covid stats. How many people in the hospital with Covid, ICU, on ventilator etc., as well as how many vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Around here it looks like 90%+ unvaccinated.

[Solkern]

Comparatively, you can look up any of your local regional hospitals and they should have published Covid stats. How many people in the hospital with Covid, ICU, on ventilator etc., as well as how many vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Around here it looks like 90%+ unvaccinated.

Yup, the data quite clearly states that the unvaccinated are the ones pushing the infections up by a wide margin.

[Shaps]

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/ar...kthrough-cases

Now, if you hop on over to the Virginia Dept. of Health's breakthrough-cases dashboard, or "COVID-19 Cases by Vaccination Status," you'll see a stat that says:

“Unvaccinated people in the state developed COVID-19 at a rate of 7.4 times that of fully vaccinated people and 2.4 times that of partially vaccinated people.”
That is based on VDH data from January 17, 2021, through Sept. 18, 2021.

As an example.

Down to go through the breakdown so can appreciate you actually posting some data.. which is a nice change. A perspective on your previous statement, and the data you presented.

1. Unvaccinated "developed" Covid-19 more easily.. that says nothing about transmission.
2. Unvaccinated numbers would be more prevalent, because they have more severe reactions to Covid as a general rule of thumb.. and therefore would look for therapeutics or care more readily.. again, that says nothing about transmission.
3. Titles are misleading... and you have to read all the way through, then actually extrapolate it into the real world and current situations... example:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...finds-n1280583

"Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds"

"The new study showed that protection against transmission seemed to wane over time, however. After three months, people who had breakthrough infections after being vaccinated with AstraZeneca were just as likely to spread the delta variant as the unvaccinated. While protection against transmission decreased in people who had received the Pfizer vaccine, there was still a benefit when compared with people who were unvaccinated.
Since antibody levels also tend to decrease over time after vaccination, a reduction in protection against transmission is to be expected, Richterman said."

On it's face, the research seems proper and makes sense right? Until you read the excerpt that was shoved all the way down in the article... Now let me propose something...

The current vitriolic statements is just a mass hysteria of "THE UNVAXXED ARE ALL TO BLAME!!!"... but, just going from their own information, let's take a look at current trends...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ricans-by-day/

Infections by month since began tracking till now... take a look at it...

Cases spiked last winter... Vaccine comes out in mass in Spring... Cases go down through Summer... Cases spike in Fall... all while vaccination rates are going up...

Now based off their own data and statements: "The new study showed that protection against transmission seemed to wane over time, however. After three months, people who had breakthrough infections after being vaccinated with AstraZeneca were just as likely to spread the delta variant as the unvaccinated."

So.. with that graph... could a case not be made that cases declined as vaccine was administered... and as the vaccinated went out, it was effective at reducing transmission for the first 3-4 months... as the graph shows... then those vaccinated lost the benefit reducing transmission... BUT... were still going out thinking they were good to go... and because those vaccinated socialized a lot more, and had more asymptomatic infections (again their own data) due to being vaccinated...

That the vaccinated, unknowingly, are actually the ones driving the increase in Covid spread?

I'm not claiming to know... I'm just looking at the data and their statements... then applying it to the tracker and social behaviors that have occurred during that timeframe.

Of course cases resulting in more Covid illness would be more prevalent in the unvaccinated, that doesn't address the blame for transmission though... as everyone likes to just yell... "It's all the unvaxxed's fault!!!!"... Just saying... can't a case be made?

[Shaps]

What I typed above, is why for awhile now on here I've mentioned my dismay and anger about the polarization over this issue...

The scientific community should be full steam ahead on, and getting the same support Trump gave them for the initial development, to continue to improve the current vaccine... just like they do for others on a seasonal/mutating basis.

Thankfully one company is proposing a therapeutic pill development, so /fingers crossed that it has some efficacy and is another tool for Doctors.

[Solkern]

Down to go through the breakdown so can appreciate you actually posting some data.. which is a nice change. A perspective on your previous statement, and the data you presented.

1. Unvaccinated "developed" Covid-19 more easily.. that says nothing about transmission.
2. Unvaccinated numbers would be more prevalent, because they have more severe reactions to Covid as a general rule of thumb.. and therefore would look for therapeutics or care more readily.. again, that says nothing about transmission.
3. Titles are misleading... and you have to read all the way through, then actually extrapolate it into the real world and current situations... example:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...finds-n1280583

"Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds"

"The new study showed that protection against transmission seemed to wane over time, however. After three months, people who had breakthrough infections after being vaccinated with AstraZeneca were just as likely to spread the delta variant as the unvaccinated. While protection against transmission decreased in people who had received the Pfizer vaccine, there was still a benefit when compared with people who were unvaccinated.
Since antibody levels also tend to decrease over time after vaccination, a reduction in protection against transmission is to be expected, Richterman said."

On it's face, the research seems proper and makes sense right? Until you read the excerpt that was shoved all the way down in the article... Now let me propose something...

The current vitriolic statements is just a mass hysteria of "THE UNVAXXED ARE ALL TO BLAME!!!"... but, just going from their own information, let's take a look at current trends...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ricans-by-day/

Infections by month since began tracking till now... take a look at it...

Cases spiked last winter... Vaccine comes out in mass in Spring... Cases go down through Summer... Cases spike in Fall... all while vaccination rates are going up...

You’re making it a little more complicated than it needs to be. I’ll give you two points on why vaccinated people don’t spread it as badly as unvaccinated.
1. Vaccinated people are contagious for a shorter period of time, which also means less possibility of transmitting it.
2. Vaccinated people are likely to have less infectious virus overall, which also lessens the possibility of transmissions


This article sums it up nicely.

Among the unvaccinated, the virus travels unhindered on a highway with multiple off-ramps and refueling stations. In the vaccinated, it gets lost in a maze of dead-end streets and cul-de-sacs. Every so often, it pieces together an escape route, but in most scenarios, it finds itself cut off, and its journey ends. It can go no further.

https://www.govexec.com/management/2...people/185562/

So yeah, the unvaccinated are the main reason why infections are up.

[Solkern]

Another great example from the article:

To highlight what this means in the real world, imagine two weddings with 100 guests, one where everyone is unvaccinated and another where all the guests are vaccinated.

In the unvaccinated wedding group, the likelihood that at least one of the guests has COVID-19 is high. Similarly, everyone present is more susceptible, and the virus will likely infect many others, given the increased transmissibility of the Delta variant.

At the wedding with exclusively vaccinated attendees, however, the likelihood that anyone present has COVID-19 is minuscule. Even if someone present is infected, the likelihood that the other guests will contract the virus is similarly low, given the protection afforded by their shots.

[Shaps]

You’re making it a little more complicated than it needs to be. I’ll give you two points on why vaccinated people don’t spread it as badly as unvaccinated.
1. Vaccinated people are contagious for a shorter period of time, which also means less possibility of transmitting it.
2. Vaccinated people are likely to have less infectious virus overall, which also lessens the possibility of transmissions


This article sums it up nicely.

Among the unvaccinated, the virus travels unhindered on a highway with multiple off-ramps and refueling stations. In the vaccinated, it gets lost in a maze of dead-end streets and cul-de-sacs. Every so often, it pieces together an escape route, but in most scenarios, it finds itself cut off, and its journey ends. It can go no further.

https://www.govexec.com/management/2...people/185562/

So yeah, the unvaccinated are the main reason why infections are up.

Good points, but still think you're just looking at the first layer... as opposed to secondary conditions.

1. This article was originally published in The Atlantic.
Refer to my other post earlier today about who funds The Atlantic.

2. The article you linked... every study he cites, refutes what he's claiming... but he makes his claims based off of his logic.
I linked the actual study, that was published just 2 days ago.. that shows.. "just as likely to spread the delta variant as the unvaccinated."

3. This is where the sticking point I think we have is... as I'm looking at the human condition and activity...
Do you think it's more likely for 20,000 unvaccinated to get together... or for 20,000 vaccinated to get together?
You watching sports right now? You think there are more vaccinated or unvaccinated attending them?
You think the vaccinated are having more parties, get togethers, social gatherings... or are the unvaccinated?

The point is... the research shows that transmission efficacy wanes after 3-4 months. The graphs show that trend to be consistent from initial vaccinations (reduction in transmission for 3-4 months) and current timeframe... all while social interaction is increasing that cases increased.

It's easy, as a political tool, to just say "the unvaxxed are to blame!"... these are the same politicians who last summer said all the riots and demonstrations didn't contribute to the spread of Covid... because apparently Covid recognizes political sides.

I would propose that the unvaccinated are much more cognizant of their surroundings and avoiding large gatherings as a general rule of thumb. That just sort of goes with human nature and self-preservation.

I would also propose if you've been vaccinated, or have natural immunity, then you would much more easily be in large crowds thus increasing probability for increased spread.

Just saying... it's not easy to fully examine an issue... and the Politicians and pundits are hoping people don't.


Note: And please understand... this is not about placing "blame" on either side. This is about ensuring the data, and the way it's presented by the pundits and Politicians is accurate vs. used as a bludgeon to fuck over peoples individual rights... and in my opinion the demonization (and easy statement) of "the unvaccinated!!!" is designed to do that.

[Shaps]

The ideal..as with all viruses..is it doesn't matter if someone has it or not, as the vaccine, natural immunity, or therapeutics reduce the mortality rate of it to the point that it isn't used to destroy peoples ability to live.

It's like any other virus or disease humans have ever encountered.

The Politicians just found something to really seize some power...and fear is a good tool for that.

[Methais]

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/ar...kthrough-cases

Now, if you hop on over to the Virginia Dept. of Health's breakthrough-cases dashboard, or "COVID-19 Cases by Vaccination Status," you'll see a stat that says:

“Unvaccinated people in the state developed COVID-19 at a rate of 7.4 times that of fully vaccinated people and 2.4 times that of partially vaccinated people.”
That is based on VDH data from January 17, 2021, through Sept. 18, 2021.

As an example.

What's your theory about these numbers?