Things that made you laugh today (Political Version)

[Shaps]

Problem is that reactionary solutions like voluntary treatment and transitional housing don't have the teeth of mandating 100% sobriety except for rare instances. Like it or not, our carebear society has this notion that the best of us and the worst of us deserve equal treatment. So your doctors curing terminal illness have the same rights as your average junky who is willfully killing himself and stealing from others to enable it.

Unless you can reverse that, go back to letting those who won't help themselves go completely, then you have to put in incentives to being in control.

Good points. Sounds like more of a philosophical disagreement then.

I'm on the side of those who are "willfully killing himself and stealing from others to enable it", to just let them die or perish. I don't think that "the best of us" and "the worst of us" deserve equal treatment at all. Not if "the worst of us" are doing it "willfully".

Might seem a bit hash, but is what is.

[Shaps]

Problem is that reactionary solutions like voluntary treatment and transitional housing don't have the teeth of mandating 100% sobriety except for rare instances. Like it or not, our carebear society has this notion that the best of us and the worst of us deserve equal treatment. So your doctors curing terminal illness have the same rights as your average junky who is willfully killing himself and stealing from others to enable it.

Unless you can reverse that, go back to letting those who won't help themselves go completely, then you have to put in incentives to being in control.

Good points. Sounds like more of a philosophical disagreement then.

I'm on the side of those who are "willfully killing himself and stealing from others to enable it", to just let them die or perish. I don't think that "the best of us" and "the worst of us" deserve equal treatment at all. Not if "the worst of us" are doing it "willfully".

Might seem a bit hash, but is what is.

[Shaps]

I actually disagree with conservatives on some of these issues. I believe the current healthcare system we have for the poor works rather well. I'm ashamed of our shortage of public housing, every society has the poor and a society should be judged by how they take care of their poor. I am also ashamed of how the church has taken care of it's poor in the US. We need to completely restructure our safety net and education system.

If we can piss away 2 trillion for war, we can figure out a way to house, clothe and feed our poor.

I'll agree it's not perfect, it's not ideal, and it never will be. Never has been. But we've done it better than most of human history.

Our country shouldn't be denigrated for the gaps that exist. Improvements can be made, but we shouldn't feel ashamed for the generosity the people of this Nation has shown/given to those around the world.

[Seran]

Good points. Sounds like more of a philosophical disagreement then.

I'm on the side of those who are "willfully killing himself and stealing from others to enable it", to just let them die or perish. I don't think that "the best of us" and "the worst of us" deserve equal treatment at all. Not if "the worst of us" are doing it "willfully".

Might seem a bit hash, but is what is.

It is harsh, but I also agree that there's a certain point where someone's lost their humanity and just needs to be allowed to fade away. Personal experience with immediate family has shown me that until someone's allowed to hit rock bottom, they don't have a real chance at recovery. As long as someone's willing to enable, then the addict is going to stay an addict.

But for the most part, people aren't willing to let destiny take its course and barring a change there, I think rewarding clean and sober behavior is not a bad compromise.

[Neveragain]

I'll agree it's not perfect, it's not ideal, and it never will be. Never has been. But we've done it better than most of human history.

Our country shouldn't be denigrated for the gaps that exist. Improvements can be made, but we shouldn't feel ashamed for the generosity the people of this Nation has shown/given to those around the world.

I'm not trying to denigrate our country, it's without a doubt one of the best places to live on the planet. That being said, we can do a lot better.

I have zero qualms with letting the individual learn through their failures but we also can't ignore that we have individuals in this country with more wealth than some countries have and I think we all agree that there's something not right about that.

We have 500,000 plus human beings living in the streets. Vast numbers of those individuals suffer from mental illness which can be fixed by us investing in humane mental health facilities.

If we were to reform our public school system from a "one size fits all" institution, a great deal of our homeless problems would go away. We need work programs for students age 14 and up that help create/sustain our safety net program.

The quality of life for the poor is, as history has proven, a societies security interest.

[~Rocktar~]

I'm not trying to denigrate our country, it's without a doubt one of the best places to live on the planet. That being said, we can do a lot better.

Yes, government handouts and subsidies are not the way, 60+ years of past history on this should prove that.

I have zero qualms with letting the individual learn through their failures but we also can't ignore that we have individuals in this country with more wealth than some countries have and I think we all agree that there's something not right about that.

No, we can't, the people you complain about provide a service to millions if not billions, how much service to the countries you talk about provide?

We have 500,000 plus human beings living in the streets. Vast numbers of those individuals suffer from mental illness which can be fixed by us investing in humane mental health facilities.

But facilities and asylums and so on were all cruel and terrible and all the other names people used to call for closing them all in the late 60s.

If we were to reform our public school system from a "one size fits all" institution, a great deal of our homeless problems would go away. We need work programs for students age 14 and up that help create/sustain our safety net program.

It needs reform and like Bill Maher said "We need to do more to make college degrees unnecessary for 2/3 of the jobs, which they are." I agree we need work programs, technical education, shop class, and Title IX needs to go away as the immense failure that it has been. And our "safety net" needs reform so that it's not a viable career choice.

The quality of life for the poor is, as history has proven, a societies security interest.

The best sure for poverty is to not enable it. What you enable, what you focus on, what you subsidize grows. We have spent trillions trying to pay the poor to not be poor and it hasn't worked. It has destroyed the family, it has driven drug abuse, it has driven mental health issue, it has driven crime and it has created a massive economic slave class that votes for more handouts from their slave masters. The personal income tax is merely a wealth redistribution program and it has proven that it is a failure. Doing more of what has failed over and over again is lunacy.

[Neveragain]

Yes, government handouts and subsidies are not the way, 60+ years of past history on this should prove that.



No, we can't, the people you complain about provide a service to millions if not billions, how much service to the countries you talk about provide?



But facilities and asylums and so on were all cruel and terrible and all the other names people used to call for closing them all in the late 60s.



It needs reform and like Bill Maher said "We need to do more to make college degrees unnecessary for 2/3 of the jobs, which they are." I agree we need work programs, technical education, shop class, and Title IX needs to go away as the immense failure that it has been. And our "safety net" needs reform so that it's not a viable career choice.



The best sure for poverty is to not enable it. What you enable, what you focus on, what you subsidize grows. We have spent trillions trying to pay the poor to not be poor and it hasn't worked. It has destroyed the family, it has driven drug abuse, it has driven mental health issue, it has driven crime and it has created a massive economic slave class that votes for more handouts from their slave masters. The personal income tax is merely a wealth redistribution program and it has proven that it is a failure. Doing more of what has failed over and over again is lunacy.

Government subsidies have proven successful, the problem is we don't give enough. Ask any family that receives food assistance and they will all tell you they come up a week short every month. Enough should be given to duel parent households that make it easier for one parent to stay home and care for their family.

Chief executives of big companies now make, on average, 320 times as much as their typical worker, according to the Economic Policy Institute. In 1989, that ratio was 61 to 1.

Your trickle down bullshit doesn't work, it's proven by the two parents working 2 1/2 jobs and the destruction of the nuclear family over the past 30 years.

I'm glad that you agree that shutting down our mental health institutions was inhumane and stupid.

If you believe our $23,000 household annual income is a "viable career choice", you're just wrong. People don't keep getting pregnant just to stay on a $23,000 income, this is a fantasy that conservatives have in their head. This shows your lack of understanding human psychology and sociology.

[~Rocktar~]

Government subsidies have proven successful, the problem is we don't give enough. Ask any family that receives food assistance and they will all tell you they come up a week short every month. Enough should be given to duel parent households that make it easier for one parent to stay home and care for their family.

No, they haven't, the poverty rate has not decreased. You can't give enough to people to make them not poor without a job. And the fact that we started to have less people on welfare under Trump with the highest levels of employment ever are indeed proof that the policies do work and they work better than welfare slavery to the government.

Your trickle down bullshit doesn't work, it's proven by the two parents working 2 1/2 jobs and the destruction of the nuclear family over the past 30 years.

70+% black children are born in single parent families, 45+% plus of Hispanic, and in the mid 60, before the "Great Society" welfare slavery those numbers were around 22-23% blacks and less for Hispanics. Welfare does not work.

I'm glad that you agree that shutting down our mental health institutions was inhumane and stupid.

Never argued that it wasn't. Ever.

If you believe our $23,000 household annual income is a "viable career choice", you're just wrong. People don't keep getting pregnant just to stay on a $23,000 income, this is a fantasy that conservatives have in their head. This shows your lack of understanding human psychology and sociology.

So where is that number come from? Does it include paid for Medicaid? What about housing assistance? Is it taxable? No? Yeah, like teachers pay, it's a false number and a load of shit. And with current welfare set up so that you make another baby, you get more pay, it is in fact a career choice as attested to the fact we have 5th generation welfare families now. Twenty three thousand take home without rent and taxes is similar to what I take home and live off of so guess what, that's a pile of shit.

[Neveragain]

No, they haven't, the poverty rate has not decreased. You can't give enough to people to make them not poor without a job. And the fact that we started to have less people on welfare under Trump with the highest levels of employment ever are indeed proof that the policies do work and they work better than welfare slavery to the government.



70+% black children are born in single parent families, 45+% plus of Hispanic, and in the mid 60, before the "Great Society" welfare slavery those numbers were around 22-23% blacks and less for Hispanics. Welfare does not work.



Never argued that it wasn't. Ever.



So where is that number come from? Does it include paid for Medicaid? What about housing assistance? Is it taxable? No? Yeah, like teachers pay, it's a false number and a load of shit. And with current welfare set up so that you make another baby, you get more pay, it is in fact a career choice as attested to the fact we have 5th generation welfare families now. Twenty three thousand take home without rent and taxes is similar to what I take home and live off of so guess what, that's a pile of shit.

The cut off for assistance is roughly $20,000 for an individual, this is also scaled. Our current average is $1.30 per meal for everyone that is on food assistance. For housing assistance you can't make more than $15,000 for an individual.

If our current tax rates and safety net worked, we wouldn't have 500,000 homeless people and employers that make 300 times the amount of their average employee.

People don't have babies just to stay on welfare, again, this shows your lack of understanding human psychology and sociology. This anti-family / child position that both parties take is destructive as fuck to a society.

[~Rocktar~]

The cut off for assistance is roughly $20,000 for an individual, this is also scaled. Our current average is $1.30 per meal for everyone that is on food assistance. For housing assistance you can't make more than $15,000 for an individual.

If our current tax rates and safety net worked, we wouldn't have 500,000 homeless people and employers that make 300 times the amount of their average employee.

People don't have babies just to stay on welfare, again, this shows your lack of understanding human psychology and sociology. This anti-family / child position that both parties take is destructive as fuck to a society.

Sorry, housing assistance and SNAP doesn't count welfare income. And you are simply conflating spending with ending homeless and that is a false narrative and wrong and has been proven wrong over and over. Your assertion that people don't have babies to get more money is also wrong, it happens and happens a lot more than you know. And your assertion that trying to end economic slavery to the government is "anti family" is also bullshit. Economic slavery is destructive as fuck to society. Destroying the family is destructive to society. The economic facts are clear, the end of poverty is a free economy and active job creation and not taxes and wealth redistribution. This is a government caused problem and the government is not the solution. Period.

60+ years of the failure of the "Great Society" is irrefutable proof of the failure of government interfearance in ending poverty, all it has done is increase poverty, increase dependence and destroy the American family and it's unsustainable at it's current level much less increasing it. The government has never cured poverty anywhere on the planet in any manner at all, even the most progressive, Socialist or Communist forms, none have ever cured poverty. Open economies with less restrictive regulations and healthy business creation and growth DOES cure poverty as much as it can. The sad fact is, poverty is a permanent state there is and always will be poverty and nothing will change that despite your feelings or desires to the contrary.