Taliban taking over Afghanistan

[Stanley Burrell]

Glass it.

The horror...the horror.

[Neveragain]

We stay there until we know it's not going to create a humanitarian crisis

Again, it matters what happens to people even if they were born far away from you.

Imaginary lines on an imaginary map do not make us a different species. They're just ink lines.

That's something a lot of you here don't seem to be able to get through your heads.
.

Holy imperialism.

You have a humanitarian crisis in your own state that you can't fix.

[Neveragain]

We should never have withdrawn. It's something I'll never forgive Biden for.

I was against it when Trump talked about it, and I'm against it now. It was politics over humanity .

Bombs of humanitarianism.

[Astray]

We should have withdrawn the day after we killed OBL. I knew from the moment I met the Afghan National Army that they were fucked when we left.

They were noticeably shittier than the Iraqi Army, and that is saying a lot, because they sucked too.

/thread

[Alfster]

We led them to water. The won't drink. You want us to sit there piping in American lives and money forever?

That's what I don't get. This isn't the first time someone tried to push them into something other than a tribal government. It's never worked. Trillions wasted because we somehow thought they'd want us. Lol.

[Solkern]

We should have withdrawn the day after we killed OBL. I knew from the moment I met the Afghan National Army that they were fucked when we left.

They were noticeably shittier than the Iraqi Army, and that is saying a lot, because they sucked too.

I agree. There’s no reason we should have been there for so long. Most people with a brain recognized this as a lost cause from the get go. It should have been even more transparent as the years kept going, money kept being sent, that nothing of fruition was going to come out of it, no matter how long we stayed.

[time4fun]

We led them to water. The won't drink. You want us to sit there piping in American lives and money forever?

At least until it's stabilized. The country's military is crumbling- they weren't ready. And we knew it. And now the Taliban is on track to take most- if not all- of that country.

That's not good for them. It's also not good for us.

We shouldn't have gone in to begin with. But once you do that- once you destabilize a nation like that- you have a responsibility. They're in the middle of a civil war. Countless people there risked their lives to help US forces in hopes of a better world than what the Taliban has to offer.

We just left them all there.

And if you can't bring yourself to care about people ending up under Taliban rule, then at least stop and think about what that does to our credibility. Especially after what we *just* did to the Kurds.

[Taernath]

Again, how much longer will it take to 'stabilize' Afghanistan? It's been 20 years, so clearly time is not the issue. You seem to think stability is something that can just be willed into existence, as if pouring enough money, blood, and time will magically birth a functioning democracy. It won't. Nation building by way of military adventurism was a lie that was sold to the public by the architects of the war. Continuing the farce only makes it worse and puts you in league with them.

Afghanistan is a network of tribal chiefs and villages that hate each other, but hate outsiders even more. The government and military/police forces are an astonishing mix of corrupt and incompetent. They are, quite literally, unable and unwilling to be trained.

There is no 'good end' to the story.

[time4fun]

Again, how much longer will it take to 'stabilize' Afghanistan? What can we do in another year, or two, or three, that hasn't been attempted in the past 20 years? I know it hasn't been for a lack of trying. The country is a network of tribal chiefs and villages that hate each other, but hate outsiders even more. The government and military/police forces are an astonishing mix of corrupt and incompetent. They are, quite literally, untrainable.

Look I'm not going to sit here and say I have an answer for that. I don't. No one does.

But in two weeks, the Taliban has taken half the country. In two more weeks, who knows what's going to be left? All signs point to them taking over Kabul very soon. At the very least, that should be enough for us to realize that now isn't the time to go.

We can sit around and talk about their military and government all we want, but the real people who live there never asked for any of this. They deserve better. The thousands of people who risked their lives and those of their families to help us fight the Taliban deserve better. What do you think is in store for them once we're gone and the Taliban has taken over?

And if the Taliban don't actually manage to take Kabul and the rest of the provinces (which they almost assuredly will), the Afghan government is going to have to find big allies to help. When we abandoned the Kurds in Syria, Russia swooped right in to help them.

As a reminder, the US and Pakistan helped the Taliban (or what later became the Taliban) stay in power in the 80s and 90s. *We're* part of the reason they're there. And Russia supported their opposition as part of their invasion. I'm sure they would love to jump in, get another foothold in the area, and remind everyone that they can't trust the United States.

Everything about this- just like the Syria withdrawal- is a series of disasters waiting to happen.

[Shaps]

Look I'm not going to sit here and say I have an answer for that. I don't. No one does.

But in two weeks, the Taliban has taken half the country. In two more weeks, who knows what's going to be left? All signs point to them taking over Kabul very soon. At the very least, that should be enough for us to realize that now isn't the time to go.

We can sit around and talk about their military and government all we want, but the real people who live there never asked for any of this. They deserve better. The thousands of people who risked their lives and those of their families to help us fight the Taliban deserve better. What do you think is in store for them once we're gone and the Taliban has taken over?

And if the Taliban don't actually manage to take Kabul and the rest of the provinces (which they almost assuredly will), the Afghan government is going to have to find big allies to help. When we abandoned the Kurds in Syria, Russia swooped right in to help them.

As a reminder, the US and Pakistan helped the Taliban (or what later became the Taliban) stay in power in the 80s and 90s. *We're* part of the reason they're there. And Russia supported their opposition as part of their invasion. I'm sure they would love to jump in, get another foothold in the area, and remind everyone that they can't trust the United States.

Everything about this- just like the Syria withdrawal- is a series of disasters waiting to happen.

Biden's doing a great job! Keep up the good work!