Things that made you laugh today (Political Version)

[time4fun]

I don't see it as a demand. Can't speak for him or anyone else, but I don't think it's a demand for more bias media attention that's favorable to him. He'd like it, but it's ultimately not up to him to decide.

He literally threatened to try to force them to do it by abusing his authority as head of the Executive.

I'm sorry, but for years we've heard conservatives wailing and gnashing their teeth over "government interference" when we tried to give people health care or try to protect people from discrimination.

And now you're going to make excuses for the President threatening to force companies to show more favorable coverage of him and also threatening to take away media licenses from outlets who weren't giving him that favorable coverage?

Why do you keep making excuses for him? You KNOW this is wrong. You know it leads to a bad place. You have to earn freedom, and you don't earn it by quietly looking the other way when people in power start acting like dictators.

That's HOW you get dictators. In case you hadn't noticed- they're usually democratically elected.

And the only way any of this works is if the other people in power are willing to hold a President accountable. And those other people in power- Republicans in Congress- AREN'T doing that because they know voters like you are going to be angrier with them for standing up for democratic values than they'd be if Congressional Republicans just look the other way.

These people work for you, and you're letting them get away with too much.

[Candor]

He literally threatened to try to force them to do it by abusing his authority as head of the Executive.

I'm sorry, but for years we've heard conservatives wailing and gnashing their teeth over "government interference" when we tried to give people health care or try to protect people from discrimination.

And now you're going to make excuses for the President threatening to force companies to show more favorable coverage of him and also threatening to take away media licenses from outlets who weren't giving him that favorable coverage?

I apologize if everyone but me is up-to-speed on this issue, but did Trump say something recently or is this a rehash of the statements he made about a year ago?

Of course he shouldn't have made such statements, and it speaks very bad for his character that he did. But it would be extremely difficult for Trump to actually take away licenses because he doesn't like a media outlet's coverage. Just because he would like to do something doesn't mean he can actually do it.

Again, maybe I'm missing something recent here.

[time4fun]

I apologize if everyone but me is up-to-speed on this issue, but did Trump say something recently or is this a rehash of the statements he made about a year ago?

Of course he shouldn't have made such statements, and it speaks very bad for his character that he did. But it would be extremely difficult for Trump to actually take away licenses because he doesn't like a media outlet's coverage. Just because he would like to do something doesn't mean he can actually do it.

Again, maybe I'm missing something recent here.

Last week he effectively threatened to force Google to show more stories that give him favorable coverage.

And we can't keep falling back on "It would be hard for him to do it". There are only four major forces that are a check on a President: 1) The Media 2) The DoJ 3) Congress and 4) The Courts.

He has been mercilessly attacking the first two- trying desperately- and unfortunately successfully- to make them less effective checks on his power. The third one is controlled by people who are too afraid of their conservative voter base to perform their duty, and he's been stacking the fourth one with hyper-conservative judges (including attempting to install a Supreme Court Justice whose deference to the Executive is considered to be extreme by most legal standards).

When we talk about "eroding democratic norms"- we're often talking about very concrete things.

This response is the equivalent of watching a bunch of thieves dismantle your security system and saying, "Hey, don't worry- I've got a security system. We're fine".

[Wrathbringer]

Last week he effectively threatened to force Google to show more stories that give him favorable coverage.

And we can't keep falling back on "It would be hard for him to do it". There are only four major forces that are a check on a President: 1) The Media 2) The DoJ 3) Congress and 4) The Courts.

He has been mercilessly attacking the first two- trying desperately- and unfortunately successfully- to make them less effective checks on his power. The third one is controlled by people who are too afraid of their conservative voter base to perform their duty, and he's been stacking the fourth one with hyper-conservative judges (including attempting to install a Supreme Court Justice whose deference to the Executive is considered to be extreme by most legal standards).

When we talk about "eroding democratic norms"- we're often talking about very concrete things.

This response is the equivalent of watching a bunch of thieves dismantle your security system and saying, "Hey, don't worry- I've got a security system. We're fine".

crying.jpg

[Astray]

I had a long winded response but it got swept up in an accidental backspace but here's the gist.

Your rights and liberties are not being threatened by Donald Trump. He's a hot head who says asinine things and the only people that would liken 'enemy' to 'attack these people' is not of sound mind.

Speaking of Trump.

I just cannot state strongly enough how totally dishonest much of the Media is. Truth doesn’t matter to them, they only have their hatred & agenda. This includes fake books, which come out about me all the time, always anonymous sources, and are pure fiction. Enemy of the People!

Nowhere in there does it imply that you should kill someone. In that Tweet, I read more frustration than actual credible merits toward violence. I'm struggling to find reasons to keep debating this when there's nothing to debate that hasn't been covered in spades, recently. I'll leave this off as such;

I do not believe that Donald Trump is advocating for violence. I believe he is upset and is lashing out but when the dust settles, you're not gonna meet a man ready to take the head off a journalist. I don't expect him to make Americans do it either. It's a pointing out, in a very dramatic fashion, that the media is bias and things should be done about it to ensure that news gets out and not bullshit.

That's my final piece on this very bloated discussion.

[time4fun]

I had a long winded response but it got swept up in an accidental backspace but here's the gist.

Your rights and liberties are not being threatened by Donald Trump. He's a hot head who says asinine things and the only people that would liken 'enemy' to 'attack these people' is not of sound mind.

They are being threatened. I have a right to a free press, for example. I have a right to functional justice system. This man is threatening both. (Plus a whole host of other rights that are tangential to this conversation but not tangential to millions of lives)

Nowhere in there does it imply that you should kill someone. In that Tweet, I read more frustration than actual credible merits toward violence. I'm struggling to find reasons to keep debating this when there's nothing to debate that hasn't been covered in spades, recently. I'll leave this off as such;

I do not believe that Donald Trump is advocating for violence. I believe he is upset and is lashing out but when the dust settles, you're not gonna meet a man ready to take the head off a journalist. I don't expect him to make Americans do it either. It's a pointing out, in a very dramatic fashion, that the media is bias and things should be done about it to ensure that news gets out and not bullshit.

That's my final piece on this very bloated discussion.

Is he advocating for violence? No (though he has egged on violent reactions to the press during his campaign events- so let's not let him off of the hook so fast on this one). Is violence a reasonably predictable byproduct of his constant attacks and the framing of the press as the enemy? Yeah actually it is. And once- just once- it would be great if he (or any of you all) would hold him accountable for that. He's not a six year-old child. He's the President of the United States, and not all of us are looking to sink our standards below the gutter.

But, honestly, as far as his "frustrations with the press"...Astray, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the press have been right.

When the Press reported about Michael Flynn's improper foreign contacts and lied to the FBI- Trump accused them of peddling fake news. They were right.
When the Press reported about the dozens of meetings his campaign had with Russian government officials and cutouts? They were right
When the Press reported that he fired Comey over the Russia investigation? They were right.
When the Press reported that Trump had business dealings with Russia during the campaign? They were right.
When the Press reported that the Trump Foundation had been engaging in shady self-dealing and was in gross violation of the law? They were right.
When the Press reported that the top Trump campaign officials (including Trump's son and son-in-law) met with the Russians to get dirt on Clinton? They were right.
When the Press reported that Trump DID know about the Stormy Daniels payments, and that they violated Federal law? They were right.
When the Press reported that Russia had meddled in our elections? They were right.
When the Press reported that Kushner had met with the head of the Russian bank to set up a backdoor channel? They were right.

When the Press reported that Carter Page was a Russian spy, and that his FISA warrant was approved properly? They were right.
When the Press reported that Manafort had been in contact with someone from Russian Intelligence through the whole campaign? They were right.

I could go on for LITERALLY hundreds of examples here. And every single time Trump accused the Press of peddling fake news.

So let's just get one thing straight. The Press was reporting real news. Trump was the one pushing fake news.

So your concerns over accountability are grossly misdirected here. And it's time to own up to that fact.

[Astray]

Is he advocating for violence? No (though he has egged on violent reactions to the press during his campaign events- so let's not let him off of the hook so fast on this one).

Fair enough.

So your concerns over accountability are grossly misdirected here. And it's time to own up to that fact.

I will admit to fact when it's true. When are you going to admit your obsession with Trump is the only reason you keep raging on about him? Not because you're concerned, not because you want to piss off people here. You are legitimately, fanatically, obsessed with President Trump.

[time4fun]

Fair enough.




I will admit to fact when it's true. When are you going to admit your obsession with Trump is the only reason you keep raging on about him? Not because you're concerned, not because you want to piss off people here. You are legitimately, fanatically, obsessed with President Trump.

First, if you're willing to admit to fact when it's true- then how about you begin by acknowledging that Trump is the one who has been lying, and the Press has been trying to fight lies with truth so that you- the voter- can make decisions based on reality and not cynical perversions of it.

As far for an "obsession" with him- don't confuse my obsession with my politics, my government, and civil rights for an obsession with a wannabe dictator who sold our country out to the Russians and who has broken every law ever put in front of him as a matter of sport. I've been engrossed in politics since I was in high school- I've worked on campaigns, I've been on boards of non-profits, I've worked at the UN, and I spent many years (and A LOT of money) studying the intersection between law, identity, and equality. My concern with our democracy vastly predates your awareness of it.

And ultimately, I'm not the one who spends their days making excuses for him.

Your willingness to "look the other way" while our democratic norms crumble, while our election system is sold out to- and manipulated by- our greatest geopolitical adversary, and while the civil rights of your neighbors are attacked is not a virtue.

And my desire to have a functional democracy that isn't susceptible to corruption by totalitarian instincts and its morally bankrupt enablement as so many others have been before is not a fault.

[Astray]

First, if you're willing to admit to fact when it's true- then how about you begin by acknowledging that Trump is the one who has been lying, and the Press has been trying to fight lies with truth so that you- the voter- can make decisions based on reality and not cynical perversions of it.

I stopped reading around where the bold part is. Propaganda is easy to spot when it's so blatant.

[Fortybox]

They are being threatened. I have a right to a free press, for example. I have a right to functional justice system. This man is threatening both. (Plus a whole host of other rights that are tangential to this conversation but not tangential to millions of lives)




Is he advocating for violence? No (though he has egged on violent reactions to the press during his campaign events- so let's not let him off of the hook so fast on this one). Is violence a reasonably predictable byproduct of his constant attacks and the framing of the press as the enemy? Yeah actually it is. And once- just once- it would be great if he (or any of you all) would hold him accountable for that. He's not a six year-old child. He's the President of the United States, and not all of us are looking to sink our standards below the gutter.

But, honestly, as far as his "frustrations with the press"...Astray, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the press have been right.

When the Press reported about Michael Flynn's improper foreign contacts and lied to the FBI- Trump accused them of peddling fake news. They were right.
When the Press reported about the dozens of meetings his campaign had with Russian government officials and cutouts? They were right
When the Press reported that he fired Comey over the Russia investigation? They were right.
When the Press reported that Trump had business dealings with Russia during the campaign? They were right.
When the Press reported that the Trump Foundation had been engaging in shady self-dealing and was in gross violation of the law? They were right.
When the Press reported that the top Trump campaign officials (including Trump's son and son-in-law) met with the Russians to get dirt on Clinton? They were right.
When the Press reported that Trump DID know about the Stormy Daniels payments, and that they violated Federal law? They were right.
When the Press reported that Russia had meddled in our elections? They were right.
When the Press reported that Kushner had met with the head of the Russian bank to set up a backdoor channel? They were right.

When the Press reported that Carter Page was a Russian spy, and that his FISA warrant was approved properly? They were right.
When the Press reported that Manafort had been in contact with someone from Russian Intelligence through the whole campaign? They were right.

I could go on for LITERALLY hundreds of examples here. And every single time Trump accused the Press of peddling fake news.

So let's just get one thing straight. The Press was reporting real news. Trump was the one pushing fake news.

So your concerns over accountability are grossly misdirected here. And it's time to own up to that fact.