Trump Bans Transgenders from the Military

[Methais]

We're not even talking about the ban anymore, but your argument which feels like it's hurting the cause more than helping at this point. Which is unfortunate.

That's the case with 99.999999% of the arguments she makes regarding anything. And she's completely oblivious to her own massive hypocrisy.

So is it a mental disorder or are they defrauding the insurance system? Because it can't be both. Which is probably why she keeps avoiding responding directly to it.

[Latrinsorm]

I kind of have to agree with some folks here. The way you're talking about it makes this look like a "have your cake and eat it too" kind of situation. You can't call it a mental disorder for the sake of getting gender reassignment surgery paid for by insurance then turn around and say they should be allowed in combat because it's only technically a mental disorder. We're not even talking about the ban anymore, but your argument which feels like it's hurting the cause more than helping at this point. Which is unfortunate.

There are two important distinctions to make here: not all military are combat troops, and not all trans people have gender dysmorphia.

As such, the President tweeting that people who are trans would not be allowed to serve in the military is very different from tweeting that people with gender dysmorphia would not be allowed to serve in combat.

It's not having one's cake and eating it too, it's pointing out bright line distinctions that (crucially) pre-date the tweets. Distinguishing between trans and gender dysmorphia didn't just suddenly happen after the President sent these tweets. It happened literally years ago.

[time4fun]

I kind of have to agree with some folks here. The way you're talking about it makes this look like a "have your cake and eat it too" kind of situation. You can't call it a mental disorder for the sake of getting gender reassignment surgery paid for by insurance then turn around and say they should be allowed in combat because it's only technically a mental disorder.

We're not even talking about the ban anymore, but your argument which feels like it's hurting the cause more than helping at this point. Which is unfortunate.

1) So when you say "have your cake and eat it too", I assume you mean "Not be the victim of institutionalized discrimination and also be given access to a procedure you need?".

Is that really asking so much for someone who is putting their life on the line for their country? The APA and the US Military don't seem to think so.

2) What I'll counter here is- you can't decide that gender dysmorphia is a sign of being mentally unstable and unfit to serve when the people who made the diagnosis intentionally created it to avoid giving that exact impression (they are the experts, after all) AND when the military itself has backed that stance. Likewise, you can't argue that merely having a diagnosis that lives in the DSM automatically disqualifies you from service when there are other medical and psychological diagnoses that don't disqualify you or which are allowable upon a waiver.

3) Not all trans people are pre-op upon enlistment, and not all trans people intend to have gender reassignment surgery.

What's not helping the argument is ignoring the nuance of the situation for simpler, inaccurate, arguments.


Biggest takeaway: If the US Military has already said that there is no reason to disqualify trans people from serving, then no one here should be arguing otherwise. They've been serving for almost a year with no problems- which means this conversation isn't really about the impact on combat readiness.

[Wrathbringer]

1) So when you say "have your cake and eat it too", I assume you mean "Not be the victim of institutionalized discrimination and also be given access to a procedure you need?".

Is that really asking so much?

2) What I'll counter here is- you can't decide that gender dysmorphia is a sign of being mentally unstable and unfit to serve when the people who made the diagnosis intentionally made it to be extremely clear that wasn't the case AND when the military itself has backed that. Likewise, you can't argue that merely having a diagnosis that lives in the DSM automatically disqualifies you from service when there are other medical and psychological diagnoses that don't disqualify you or which are allowable upon a waiver.

3) Not all trans people are pre-op upon enlistment, and not all trans people intend to have gender reassignment surgery.

What's not helping the argument is ignoring the nuance of the situation for simpler, inaccurate, arguments.


Biggest takeaway: If the US Military has already said that there is no reason to disqualify trans people from serving, then no one here should be arguing otherwise.

You lost get over it.

[rolfard]

You lost get over it.

Blame Obama

[Ashliana]

You lost get over it.

FYI, you lost too -- more so. You're just too stupid to see it.

[Tgo01]

"Not be the victim of institutionalized discrimination

You just said that, didn't you?

Let me guess, white privilege exists too and there is institutionalized racism against blacks, right?

[Parkbandit]

http://dailysignal.com/2017/07/26/wh...be-disastrous/

[Gelston]

[Methais]