Things that made you laugh today (Political Version)

[drauz]

Then why was the Emancipation Proclamation enforced?

Well...because the north won... That is why it was enforced..

So I take it you don't agree with my statement and think that the North went to war at the beginning to free the slaves?

[tyrant-201]

Holy fuck.

Seriously.. it's like you keep feeling the need to prove you are a gigantic retard.

Newsflash: We know.

Right? But abolition wasn't used as a tool of war.

[tyrant-201]

Then why was the Emancipation Proclamation enforced?

Taken from the Library of Congress' website:

"Issued by Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863, the Emancipation Proclamation declared "all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free." Although the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery, it did change the basic character of the Civil War. Instead of waging a war to restore the old Union as it was before 1861, the North was now fighting to create a new Union without slavery. The proclamation also authorized the recruitment of African Americans as Union soldiers. By the end of the Civil War, approximately 180,000 African Americans had served in the Union army and 18,000 in the navy"

Feel free to research some more: https://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/o.../EmanProc.html

[Latrinsorm]

Ok?

Those were the states that joined as free states in this time period.

It's really baffling to me why you guys are choosing this hill to die on. There's example after example of average everyday Northerners speaking with their vote, their press, and even their lives clearly and distinctly against slavery. Your response is a 70 year old law that isn't even the right geography, and someone you've convinced yourself it's the other side ignoring facts. Wow!

[tyrant-201]

Those were the states that joined as free states in this time period.

It's really baffling to me why you guys are choosing this hill to die on. There's example after example of average everyday Northerners speaking with their vote, their press, and even their lives clearly and distinctly against slavery. Your response is a 70 year old law that isn't even the right geography, and someone you've convinced yourself it's the other side ignoring facts. Wow!

Don't you believe pot is more dangerous than alcohol?

[drauz]

Those were the states that joined as free states in this time period.

It's really baffling to me why you guys are choosing this hill to die on. There's example after example of average everyday Northerners speaking with their vote, their press, and even their lives clearly and distinctly against slavery. Your response is a 70 year old law that isn't even the right geography, and someone you've convinced yourself it's the other side ignoring facts. Wow!

Don't play dumb, both sides sent people to those states specifically for the slavery issue. This doesn't mean people who came for other reasons felt strongly one way or another. Many whites in California just didn't want to compete against slave labor in the gold rush, not because they didn't like slavery.

Where am I ignoring facts, you haven't presented any. Are you conflating two separate arguments? You have presented the names of states. I showed you how some of the northern states had no choice in the vote for or against slavery, which you seem to have just dismissed. Wow!

[Back]

I don't see what all the vitriol is about. Seriously. Regardless, this conversation did have me look up a few things I was cloudy about, and I did learn some things. So thanks guys for making me educate myself more. I still contend that the abolition of slavery was the key to the whole thing. And hey, slavery was abolished, so it's all good.

[drauz]

I don't see what all the vitriol is about. Seriously. Regardless, this conversation did have me look up a few things I was cloudy about, and I did learn some things. So thanks guys for making me educate myself more. I still contend that the abolition of slavery was the key to the whole thing. And hey, slavery was abolished, so it's all good.

Fear of slavery becoming illegal is the reason the south seceded. The north wanted to preserve the union, not because of slavery (at the start). Do you agree?

[tyrant-201]

I don't see what all the vitriol is about. Seriously. Regardless, this conversation did have me look up a few things I was cloudy about, and I did learn some things. So thanks guys for making me educate myself more. I still contend that the abolition of slavery was the key to the whole thing. And hey, slavery was abolished, so it's all good.

No vitriol here.

I think the abolition of slavery can respectfully be seen as a motivating factor for the Union later in the war. Definitely wasn't the goal earlier on.

Glad you're doing some research. Silly, but fun argument.

[Latrinsorm]

Don't play dumb, both sides sent people to those states specifically for the slavery issue. This doesn't mean people who came for other reasons felt strongly one way or another. Many whites in California just didn't want to compete against slave labor in the gold rush, not because they didn't like slavery.

If you're gonna count people voting against slavery as them NOT being against slavery, I'm not surprised you're convinced the North wasn't against slavery.

Where am I ignoring facts, you haven't presented any. You have presented the names of states. I showed you how some of the northern states had no choice in the vote for or against slavery, which you seem to have just dismissed. Wow!

I was talking about the states admitted to the Union in the period leading up to the Civil War, and my point was that that they were all free states, thus the North was against slavery.
You pointed out that under the Northwest Ordinance those states didn't have a choice.
I pointed out that the states we were talking about weren't subject to the Northwest Ordinance.

California came in as a free state because Californians didn't want slavery in California.
Oregon came in as a free state because Oregonians didn't want slavery in Oregon.
Minnesota came in as a free state because Minnesotans didn't want slavery in Minnesota.
Kansas didn't come in at all because Kansasers were busy murdering each other over whether slavery would be in Kansas.

These are facts.

The average Northerner cared about (and opposed) slavery. That doesn't mean every Northerner opposed slavery, or every Northerner was a saint, or no Northerner had slaves, or that it was the only thing they cared about, or the only reason they'd go to war, or any other tangent you want to go on.