Would you rather...

[Latrinsorm]

Well on day one in WvW you still are level 1 and you can't have level 80 gear - and now you still have to get all of your skills.

WvW and PvP automatically up-levels all characters to 80. In PvP you also have all skills and almost all traits unlocked. WvW doesn't for traits, I don't remember if it does for skills or not. None of which is relevant to my point, which was that GW2 does let you buy gear.

The game should be tweaked so a character with decent strength can carry a cloak, backpack, appropriate armor, appropriate weapons, boots, maybe some fluff pants, shirt, etc and still not have any encumbrance. And be able to carry a standard hunt's worth of drops without too much trouble. Maybe two boxes or so would get you to 'somewhat'

Then you can get your containers deepened and lightened by 30% using crafting systems. You can get custom armor and weapons and lighten and enchant them via crafting systems. And you can carry more.

But a person paying micro-transactions or gathering tons of silver so they can buy points can get a special item that lets you super-power a crafter to extra-deepen and extra-lighten to say 50%.

Your gear is 'A heavy backpack' or 'A plain cloak'. Dyes drop from mobs are are found in boxes - more interesting dyes are more rare. The rarest dyes are available via the store with random rare dye packs. Adjectives and materials are also dropped and can be inserted into gear in a similar way via crafting systems. 'faenor-edged', 'invar-bound', linen, suede, reinforced, etc. More interesting adjustments are rare drops - 'tied with a silver cord' etc.

Completely custom alters are available via GM work sold on the store and found as tokens rarely as drops.

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This way the game can be played fine without anything special. But if you want to be able to walk around with 5-10 boxes on you and a bunch of fluff on your person and in your containers, then you're going to need a crafter or a rare drop (or buy it from the store).

If you want to look like 'just another jerkoff player' you don't need to spend a dollar. But if you want to look interesting, you need a good amount of time playing and/or a crafter. If you want to look MORE interesting, you need a lot of time playing, and/or a crafter and rare/store drops, and if you want to look great, you need very rare or store drops (GM alters).

I suspect that you care more about the combat in GS than the customization, hence "can be played fine". I just want you to realize that these priorities are not universally shared.

Thanks for the feedback! So the thinking is that ALL accounts are F2P, with a limited number of options when creating your character (5 hair styles, 5 eye colors, 5 item locker, 5 characters, etc.). Then you can purchase additional options via some store. None of the options in the store would give you an advantage over anyone in the game. For example, you wouldn't be able to purchase weighting on a weapon if you could not purchase the same thing in the game via in-game currency or a task or something. I am not a big fan of allowing people to purchase things that actually give them power in the game ...

As above. It's really baffling to me how people draw an absolute line at selling somewhat damage weighting but have no problem crippling cosmetic customization. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that you're unwittingly restricting your potential audience.

[Peppwyn]

People abuse power ... giving them a means of purchasing power is allowing people to purchase the ability to ruin other players enjoyment. You have a really cool looking scarf doesn't hinder my enjoyment of the game.

[Latrinsorm]

How does you having somewhat damage weighting hinder my enjoyment of the game? Heck, how does you having 10x umpty ump weighting rotten bubble flares hinder my enjoyment of the game? If someone's gonna grief me, they don't need a weapon to do it.

[Deathravin]

But it does manipulate you into wanting a cool looking scarf of your own. And Simu can and should capitalize on that desire.

I'm just saying that the current F2P isn't F2P, it's F2 Trial. And that trial is showing the worst of the worst of the game. They're trying to capitalize on things that people aren't jealous of, and giving away the jealousy-inducing things to the people who have always gotten it - the elite players.

You can change F2P to a system where not only do you get to be somewhat relevant again, but also that all players can have the chance at those interesting items.

You can turn it into a system where you can play the game fine without paying a dollar, but if you want to look the way you want, if you want some mild to even extreme conveniences, if you want to get where you want to go faster, then you can pay dollars, or if you are a hardcore F2P player, then you can take the silver you earn and buy those conveniences and more interesting fluff at a rather high premium.

That's the target they should be looking toward. And this initial offering is a good step in the right direction in many ways, and a very troubling step in the wrong direction in many others.

[Latrinsorm]

But it does manipulate you into wanting a cool looking scarf of your own. And Simu can and should capitalize on that desire.

I'm just saying that the current F2P isn't F2P, it's F2 Trial. And that trial is showing the worst of the worst of the game. They're trying to capitalize on things that people aren't jealous of, and giving away the jealousy-inducing things to the people who have always gotten it - the elite players.

You can change F2P to a system where not only do you get to be somewhat relevant again, but also that all players can have the chance at those interesting items.

You can turn it into a system where you can play the game fine without paying a dollar, but if you want to look the way you want, if you want some mild to even extreme conveniences, if you want to get where you want to go faster, then you can pay dollars, or if you are a hardcore F2P player, then you can take the silver you earn and buy those conveniences and more interesting fluff at a rather high premium.

That's the target they should be looking toward. And this initial offering is a good step in the right direction in many ways, and a very troubling step in the wrong direction in many others.

This is what I disagree with you on, though. I look at Simu's F2P offering and say I can play the game fine. I look at yours and say I can't.

[Deathravin]

With the current settings in the encumrance and weight systems, yes. They'd have to be adjusted. So that 'normal' is more F2P. The current F2P restrictions on weight and item #'s is too restrictive.

[Latrinsorm]

With the current settings in the encumrance and weight systems, yes. They'd have to be adjusted. So that 'normal' is more F2P. The current F2P restrictions on weight and item #'s is too restrictive.

That's a start, but the customization aspect is more important. Here's the way I'm seeing it:

Simu F2P
You need a lot more hunts to get to level X.
But you can get those hunts done just as well as the baseline P2P player (4x gear, masses, etc.) except for society benefits.
And you have just as many look options as that player.

Deathravin F2P
You need the same number of hunts to get to level X.
But it's much harder to perform those hunts.
And you have a tiny fraction of the look options as the P2P crowd.

I would play and am playing the first one. I would not play the second.

[Gelston]

Well on day one in WvW you still are level 1 and you can't have level 80 gear - and now you still have to get all of your skills.
.

Incorrect, you can get to level 80 in under an hour via crafting.

[TheEschaton]

GW2 is horrible from a gameplay standpoint. All the classes feel the same because no one wanted to tie players hands into "roles" or "responsibilities" or even "melee" vs. "ranged." My RANGER can use a longsword. My guardian (think paladin) can use a spellstaff. No one wanted to be hindered by bad gear, so gear is, for the most part, equalized, and the grind for better gear ekes out so little gain in power that doing it isn't worth the time. In the end, all its endgame PvE consists of is grinding out the prettiest outfit.

But its pay model is pretty boss. I haven't paid a dime for GW2 besides the initial $60. But that's because there's no powerful stuff to buy. That being said, I play GW2 like every 3 months.

The key to F2P is not to make people feel actively hindered by not having a sub. Games like LOTRO had horrible F2P models, GW2 you don't feel hindered if you don't pay. I never think to myself, "Oh man, I will never grind out all these color dyes" in GW2. But giving subs a higher EXP rate, or less encumbrance, or higher carrying capacity...not paying for that will make people resent your model. And if you have any sort of end-game cooperative gameplay, having such "perks" for subs will make subs necessary for any sort of raider or group player.

Thematically, I played a game on AOL in the mid-90s called Federation. It was loosely a space trading game. In my mind, I see Firefly as kind of the universe this game was set in (of course, the game came waaaaaaay before Firefly, I often wonder if Joss Whedon played). You start out as a lowly ship captain with a loan and a lemon for a ship, and you do trading runs to first pay off your loan, and then buy bigger and better ships. Instead of levels, you had ranks, and there were only 15. The first was Groundhog, IE a shipless noob. We had whole communities of RPing Groundhogs who just played on the (text-based) planets. Then the first echelon of ranks were ship captains, first rank being Captain. The second echelon of ranks were the landed elite, starting with Merchants, who could own factories on planets, including player-owned and written planets. And the third and final echelon (ranks 11-15) were the planet owners. You could literally write your own planets in this game, room by room (sort of like what the ALAE was supposed to do), script events in them, make puzzles, make secret labyrinths, make objects in the room that you could interact with, and of course, run a stock exchange. The last rank in the game, Duke/Duchess, owned their own planet, but were also the leader of a Duchy, a confederation of planets working together, whether it was economically or militarily or just socially. And it took yeaaaaaaaaaars to get. Rank promotion was sometimes monetary, but not always. The movement from the last rank of landed elites (Journeyman) to PO (Planet Owner) involved an intricate, almost Indiana-Jones-esque puzzle which involved getting objects unique in the world (IE, only one spawned in the game at a time), a team of people of various ranks, including a Groundhog, getting them to Mars (very difficult for a Groundhog, ie), and activating an ancient Martian ruin in the proper order with the proper people.

In addition to wondering if Joss Whedon played Federation, I sometimes wonder if the guys over at CCP played it when they made EVE Online. EVE reminded me a lot of the text-based Federation, except Federation was more economic/trading centered, and not PvP-oriented. War, in Federation, was often too expensive (not only from lost commerce/merchandise, but in the light of coalition embargoes/blockades) to do without a huge provocation. Before the end of AOL gaming, there was a coalescing towards a Universe-wide government. It was intense. You should check it out, it was published by an English company called IBGames.

[Latrinsorm]

GW2 is horrible from a gameplay standpoint. All the classes feel the same because no one wanted to tie players hands into "roles" or "responsibilities" or even "melee" vs. "ranged." My RANGER can use a longsword. My guardian (think paladin) can use a spellstaff. No one wanted to be hindered by bad gear, so gear is, for the most part, equalized, and the grind for better gear ekes out so little gain in power that doing it isn't worth the time. In the end, all its endgame PvE consists of is grinding out the prettiest outfit.

First of all, grinding out the prettiest outfit is a gosh darn noble endeavor.

But first of all, there are absolutely different roles in GW2. Some builds are tough, some builds are strong. Some builds are great at ranged range, some builds are great at melee range. Some builds are great 1v1 but fall apart 2v2, some builds get stronger the bigger the battles. Even with the same dagger/dagger weapons, a power thief vs. a vitality necro are completely different play styles with completely different uses to the group.

And first of all, dropping responsibilities is what makes the gameplay elite. You never have to wait for a healer, because you are your own healer. You never have to wait for a tank, because without threat gear there's no such thing. Any group of five can succeed in a dungeon or PvP match. The best game is always the one you play, not the one you wait around to play.

Finally, first of all Strider used a sword regularly so there goes your theory up s***'s creek.