Age of Marijuana Use and Psychosis

[Latrinsorm]

In that other thread Fallen brought up the point that none of my studies controlled for age of exposure to marijuana, which was correct! I in turn said I would get in touch with some New Zealand people and keep him apprised, but the professor who responded to me put so much work into it I thought it would be a shame to only share it with one person.

Quick background: cable hasn't been invented yet in New Zealand, so people there have a lot of time on their hands. Three distinct groups have set up long-term (as in decades) cohort studies. They select a cohort at birth, subject them (and caregivers and somewhat ominously named "informants") to a questionnaire, then ask them the same questions again every year or so from that day to this. This form of study obviously allows for by far the most controls and sturdiest conclusions, the downside is that is enormously time-consuming but as I said, Kiwis have a LOT of time on their hands.

One of these studies is run by the University of Otago in Christchurch, and is imaginatively called the Christchurch Health & Development Study. I asked them Fallen's question, and a very nice Professor Horwood wrote back. He attached a study on ages 18-25 which I think I've already linked on this forum but here it is again. Its conclusion: "The present study suggests that: (a) the association between cannabis use and psychotic symptoms is unlikely to be due to confounding factors; and (b) the direction of causality is from cannabis use to psychotic symptoms." However, the study doesn't explicitly break down into age bins, so Dr. Horwood notes:

"Although it’s not obvious from the paper, this conclusion would not alter if we adjusted for age of onset of cannabis use."

And more important to our discussions, he goes on to state:

"We haven’t published on this issue beyond age 25 but similar associations persist between current cannabis use and the occurrence of psychotic symptoms up to age 35."

Obviously "similar" means "less" but more importantly "still present". It is worth noting two important things. The study only goes up to age 35, so the above statement does not imply that they observed marijuana to be safe beyond age 35. Second, the study and Dr. Horwood specifically refer to daily marijuana use rather than any, so it is possible that there is some lower level of marijuana consumption that while causing psychotic symptoms in adolescents will not do so for adults. Again, though, this is not implied. As everyone has insisted with comparing the numbers I cite with daily (or even higher) use for other drugs, this is not an important distinction.

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TL;DR: Marijuana use causes mental health issues up to age 35 at least. "Regular cannabis use at any age is associated with increased rates of psychotic symptoms." I'm glad that's settled!

[Tgo01]

[Warriorbird]

There's something you're missing. Good effort though!

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Honestly, I really struggle to understand your defense of alcohol given how a little potential for harm from marijuana causes you to decry it.

Well over 50 percent of people with PTSD end up abusing alcohol.

Maybe it doesn't destroy their life, maybe some are lucky like myself and figure it out and stop before things get too bad. But alcohol has a clinical, well defined horrific impact on mentally ill people and otherwise perfectly healthy people alike, and you're not saying we should make alcohol illegal.

Caffeine can kill people with heart conditions, but we don't outlaw coffee.

I don't want to see studies showing the harm of marijuana, I want to see studies and objective evidence showing it's more harmful than other drugs we have controlled and legalized. Show me studies that demonstrate the harm of marijuana is worse than alcohol.

This attitude is extremely frustrating because you think you're helping mentally ill people, but you really are not. Because it's these beliefs that keep various drugs from being able to be tested, experimented with, and synthesized into effective medicine. I'm probably biased because I'm going to be participating in a PTSD-MDMA study in 6 months in Vancouver, but it bugs the fuck out of me that people want to crusade on my behalf and people who are suffering like me and in doing so they're actually pushing effective medicine and potential cures further out of our grasp.

[Androidpk]

Honestly, I really struggle to understand your defense of alcohol given how a little potential for harm from marijuana causes you to decry it.

Well over 50 percent of people with PTSD end up abusing alcohol.

Maybe it doesn't destroy their life, maybe some are lucky like myself and figure it out and stop before things get too bad. But alcohol has a clinical, well defined horrific impact on mentally ill people and otherwise perfectly healthy people alike, and you're not saying we should make alcohol illegal.

Caffeine can kill people with heart conditions, but we don't outlaw coffee.

I don't want to see studies showing the harm of marijuana, I want to see studies and objective evidence showing it's more harmful than other drugs we have controlled and legalized. Show me studies that demonstrate the harm of marijuana is worse than alcohol.

This attitude is extremely frustrating because you think you're helping mentally ill people, but you really are not. Because it's these beliefs that keep various drugs from being able to be tested, experimented with, and synthesized into effective medicine. I'm probably biased because I'm going to be participating in a PTSD-MDMA study in 6 months in Vancouver, but it bugs the fuck out of me that people want to crusade on my behalf and people who are suffering like me and in doing so they're actually pushing effective medicine and potential cures further out of our grasp.

His mentality is that alcohol in small doses does no harm while cannabis in small doses is always risky.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Small doses of SSRIs can trigger psychological issues.

I was put onto zoloft for Post Partum Anxiety and every time I took my medicine I had dissociative episodes. My mind is absolutely blank, cannot remember those periods of time, but friends and family have told me it was absolutely terrifying and that I was just completely flat and non-responsive. Like a robot. I did things and reacted but had absolutely zero emotional reception. How is that safe or healthy for my marriage or for my child?

And yet, zoloft is still proscribed to tons of people every day.

I honestly don't get how Latrin can justify this and justify keeping marijuana illegal. Anything that alters brain and gut chemistry is going to have risks, period. The question is not "Is there risk" the question is whether the rewards out weigh the risk, and I want Latrin to demonstrate that they don't for marijuana using legalized drugs like alcohol and caffeine as comparisons.

[Androidpk]

Fuck SSRIs. I was put on one, lexipro I believe, and I wanted to jump in front of a train.

[Tgo01]

I honestly don't get how Latrin can justify this and justify keeping marijuana illegal. Anything that alters brain and gut chemistry is going to have risks, period. The question is not "Is there risk" the question is whether the rewards out weigh the risk, and I want Latrin to demonstrate that they don't for marijuana using legalized drugs like alcohol and caffeine as comparisons.

I've already linked studies showing that aspirin can triple your chances of developing stomach ulcers and thus doubling your chances of dying from stomach ulcers but Latrin concluded none of this mattered because aspirin "only" had a 1 in 1000 chance of killing someone while marijuana had a whooping 5 in 1000 chance of developing psychosis and since 5 is greater than 1 obviously marijuana is more dangerous.

[Androidpk]

I'm already linked studies showing that aspirin can triple your chances of developing stomach ulcers and thus doubling your chances of dying from stomach ulcers but Latrin concluded none of this mattered because aspirin "only" had a 1 in 1000 chance of killing someone while marijuana had a whooping 5 in 1000 chance of developing psychosis and since 5 is greater than 1 obviously marijuana is more dangerous.

You must have missed his post about psychosis being more dangerous than death.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I'm already linked studies showing that aspirin can triple your chances of developing stomach ulcers and thus doubling your chances of dying from stomach ulcers but Latrin concluded none of this mattered because aspirin "only" had a 1 in 1000 chance of killing someone while marijuana had a whooping 5 in 1000 chance of developing psychosis and since 5 is greater than 1 obviously marijuana is more dangerous.

This reminds me of the tit nazis who say the amount of women who can't breastfeed is "negligible" and never talk about it or acknowledge their campaigns seriously harm women, despite the fact that the number of women who physically are unable to breastfeed are about the same percentage wise as women who get breast cancer.

The pick and choose bullshit is infuriating.