Climate Change Report

[cwolff]

“Over many years of research, we have consistently found that, on average, Americans view climate change as a threat distant in space and time–a risk that will affect far away places, other species, or future generations more than people here and now,” concludes a Yale report that Kloor cites.

Isn't that a reasonable view on the average? Break it down into it's component parts...

-In space and time. Maybe people living on the fringes might notice the extra 1/2 of a degree? A reasonable belief.
-Other species. The canary in the coal mine will die first. A reasonable belief.
-Future Generations. This potentially covers millions of future generations. A reasonable belief.

Humans are a wonderfully adaptive species. As a species we've survived climate changes in the past; it's Chicken Little, "the sky is falling" stupid to think that as a species we won't survive other periods of climate change, whatever the source. Eventually people will work out the actual science in a manner that better forecasts long term climate change based on a variety of natural and man made factors. We're also a manipulative greedy species, there will always be people looking to politicize the process to line their pockets with the cash of people who both care, and don't care.

I dated a hippie chick last year for a few months. She talked the good talk, frowned at the use of insecticides in my garden, suggested I could eat my dandelion greens, gave me a recipe to make dandelion wine (which she admitted tasted horrible,) she made a point of shopping at the local co-op when I was around, and some other little things. She talked about attending some Wiccan tree festival thing in the woods (stoners getting stoned) but never bothered to attend, and just generally talked a lot about how "they" should be doing more to save the planet. In reality, she had twice as much processed crap in her fridge than I have, drove a bigger car than I do, didn't bother to get it tuned, or check tire pressure, her garden was overgrown with weeds and bugs, and yielded pretty much nothing, her house was packed with the same consumer goods, she had the most recent iphone, ate quinoa (but felt guilty that the indigenous quinoa eaters could no longer afford it) ate edamame shipped across the world on tanker ships, and generally lived with a larger carbon footprint than I do.

I guess my point is, it's hard to take people too seriously when they profess to have these firm beliefs, but they behave pretty much exactly like the people they claim to disparage. Liberals, conservatives, whatever, these are just labels people put on themselves hoping they'll be loved a tiny bit more.

BREAKING NEWS: Area Man Rejects Science After Girlfriend Fails to Buy Organic.

[Latrinsorm]

It's bad science, and you know it. When charting a timeline for anything, you start at the beginning, not the end. You can't just pick out the part of the timeline that fits your narrative and dismiss all other related data. It's ludicrous.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the point being made. The narrative is that humans are causing the majority of net global warming over the past 200 years, and the proof for this is controlling for the other phenomena that might cause it. You talk about "natural" but you are talking qualitatively. The sun warms the earth, but the sun's effects are measurable. Volcanoes produce CO2, but volcanoes are measurable. If you add up all these measurables (for a fuller list see the report) they model the past 800,000 years with high fidelity but go completely off the rails in the past 200 years. Hence, man is to blame.

The narrative is not that the earth has never been hotter, or has never had more CO2 in the atmosphere, or that everywhere on the globe is hotter at all times, or that man is the only source of warming. These are straw men.

As a species we've survived climate changes in the past; it's Chicken Little, "the sky is falling" stupid to think that as a species we won't survive other periods of climate change, whatever the source.

What we have not survived is a mass extinction event. To extend the bird metaphor, it is ostrich ignorant to believe such events have nothing to do with climate change.

[Ker_Thwap]

BREAKING NEWS: Area Man Rejects Science After Girlfriend Fails to Buy Organic.

How in the holy fuck did you get the idea that I reject science? I was a math major, with an emphasis on statistics. I fucking love science! I hate the politicizing of science. What I reject is clowns like you who can't even figure out what the point of my post is, and respond anyway with a ripped off tag line from the Onion. Nuances! It's not an either or question.

[Ker_Thwap]

What we have not survived is a mass extinction event. To extend the bird metaphor, it is ostrich ignorant to believe such events have nothing to do with climate change.

Have you calibrated your doomsday clock recently?

[Jarvan]

How in the holy fuck did you get the idea that I reject science? I was a math major, with an emphasis on statistics. I fucking love science! I hate the politicizing of science. What I reject is clowns like you who can't even figure out what the point of my post is, and respond anyway with a ripped off tag line from the Onion. Nuances! It's not an either or question.

Don't Mind Cwolff... his whole existence is to make everything an Us vs Them moment.

[Parkbandit]

“Over many years of research, we have consistently found that, on average, Americans view climate change as a threat distant in space and time–a risk that will affect far away places, other species, or future generations more than people here and now,” concludes a Yale report that Kloor cites.

Isn't that a reasonable view on the average? Break it down into it's component parts...

-In space and time. Maybe people living on the fringes might notice the extra 1/2 of a degree? A reasonable belief.
-Other species. The canary in the coal mine will die first. A reasonable belief.
-Future Generations. This potentially covers millions of future generations. A reasonable belief.

Humans are a wonderfully adaptive species. As a species we've survived climate changes in the past; it's Chicken Little, "the sky is falling" stupid to think that as a species we won't survive other periods of climate change, whatever the source. Eventually people will work out the actual science in a manner that better forecasts long term climate change based on a variety of natural and man made factors. We're also a manipulative greedy species, there will always be people looking to politicize the process to line their pockets with the cash of people who both care, and don't care.

I dated a hippie chick last year for a few months. She talked the good talk, frowned at the use of insecticides in my garden, suggested I could eat my dandelion greens, gave me a recipe to make dandelion wine (which she admitted tasted horrible,) she made a point of shopping at the local co-op when I was around, and some other little things. She talked about attending some Wiccan tree festival thing in the woods (stoners getting stoned) but never bothered to attend, and just generally talked a lot about how "they" should be doing more to save the planet. In reality, she had twice as much processed crap in her fridge than I have, drove a bigger car than I do, didn't bother to get it tuned, or check tire pressure, her garden was overgrown with weeds and bugs, and yielded pretty much nothing, her house was packed with the same consumer goods, she had the most recent iphone, ate quinoa (but felt guilty that the indigenous quinoa eaters could no longer afford it) ate edamame shipped across the world on tanker ships, and generally lived with a larger carbon footprint than I do.

I guess my point is, it's hard to take people too seriously when they profess to have these firm beliefs, but they behave pretty much exactly like the people they claim to disparage. Liberals, conservatives, whatever, these are just labels people put on themselves hoping they'll be loved a tiny bit more.

Well said.

If I honestly believed in man made global warming, I would do far more than I currently do... and I'm already doing more than most of the man made global warming crowd on this message board.

[cwolff]

Well said.

If I honestly believed in man made global warming, I would do far more than I currently do... and I'm already doing more than most of the man made global warming crowd on this message board.

If you honestly don't believe in it, then why are you doing anything?

[Latrinsorm]

Have you calibrated your doomsday clock recently?

I didn't say a mass extinction event was imminent. I'm just pointing out that saying we've always survived climate change is as much a function of our history's specific range of climate change as it is our adaptability.

[Tgo01]

"I'll do anything to save the planet from global warming...as long as it doesn't directly impact my way of life." -- Democrats.

[cwolff]

"I'll do anything to save the planet from global warming...as long as it doesn't directly impact my way of life." -- Democrats.

Argumentum ad hominem – the evasion of the actual topic by directing the attack at your opponent.