Washington Redskins will NEVER change name

[Bobmuhthol]

No one in America has ever had a particularly hard time in life on the grounds that they were a middle aged white male. It's not a stereotype.

[cwolff]

And here you just replied with an offensive term, or stereotype... "a middle aged white guy, which in today's America makes you perhaps the most privileged class who has ever lived."

Being a white guy born in the USA is a pretty damn good thing. It really doesn't get much better than that unless maybe you are a white guy born to a british woman named Kate who happened to marry up.

It's a sign of our privilege that we can take it for granted. If Native Americans don't like the Redskins, then change it. No big deal. Certainly nothing for white folks to feel threatened about.

[Latrinsorm]

And here you just replied with an offensive term, or stereotype... "a middle aged white guy, which in today's America makes you perhaps the most privileged class who has ever lived."

To me personally not offensive. But to make that blanket statement just because my skin color is white? Are all white males then, the most privileged people in the U.S.?

Let me stop you right there. This is not what "class" means, and your inference is in no way implied by what I said. But let's assume you are absolutely right:

I'd love if everyone was judged based off of their abilities and accomplishments, but even people who think they are above stereotyping people, are often the worst offenders themselves.

If I may say it again, it is your choice whether to evolve or not, because the evolution we are referring to is in no way biological. If you want an excuse, "those people aren't either!" is a very good excuse... but you know what they say about excuses, they make an ex out of u and Syracuse.

It's up to you: progress, status quo, regress. What is your choice?

[Shaps]

Let me stop you right there. This is not what "class" means, and your inference is in no way implied by what I said. But let's assume you are absolutely right:If I may say it again, it is your choice whether to evolve or not, because the evolution we are referring to is in no way biological. If you want an excuse, "those people aren't either!" is a very good excuse... but you know what they say about excuses, they make an ex out of u and Syracuse.

It's up to you: progress, status quo, regress. What is your choice?

Actually... it is completely implied by what you said. You said because I am a white guy, then I am priviledged. That is a stereotype based off of my skin color and gender. That is right, unless stating I'm a white guy isn't a reference to my gender/color.

That would be like me saying... "a middle aged black guy, which in today's America makes you perhaps the most violent class...." - Same thing right? Statistically speaking I am correct. Would I ever say that to someone though, because they happen to be a black male? No I wouldn't. Because that would be stereotyping someone based off of their gender/race, and not their accomplishments or achievements.

Evolution is biological, sociological, environmental and any number of other things. Biologically we have evolved over the past 1 million years. Shit, biologically we have evolved over the past 100 due to the hormones and such we put in our foods. Biologically our minds have evolved and developed (or regressed if you look at all the people with ADHD compared to 100 years ago - though I think people used to call it being absentminded, now they pump their kids up on drugs for it - another topic another day though). The strongest physically were our hunter/gatherers, now they are our sport stars and machines harvest our crops. Whole countries regulate birth rates and genders allowed. Russia just passed an anti-gay law. I could keep going on.

So you tell me.. progress, status quo, or regress? Look at history... at certain periods we treat each other better... other periods we treat each other badly... and so the cycle will go, because with free will, will come the will of some to fuck with others - either for monetary gain, personal gain, societal gain, cultural gain, or whatever other reason there may be. We are not all equal. No one will ever be born with the same opportunities in life. No one will ever be as pretty or strong or smart as everyone else. We can try to treat those we come in contact with how we would want to be treated. Such a simple concept still holds true after it's inception, due unto others as you would have done unto you.

Even with that bit of guidance, so simple to live by, people have and will continue to not follow it. So you can say I need to evolve or whatever, but you remind me of college kids I run into who have never given back to the community, or gone to the most heinous places on earth and seen what people do to one another, or helped the most under-priviledged people in the world.... yet talk about how "we need to change and sit at a peace rally and love one another" and think they have the solution to the worlds problems, when they themselves have no idea what those real problems are.

It's easy to be the one sitting sipping coffee coming up with ideas about how everyone else should live, unless you are physically in a place, making a difference, affecting real people and their daily lives... well we can all sit around and bullshit, doesn't accomplish much though. Because someone else has to go out there and actually implement the ideas that all the coffee shop intellectuals actually come up with.

We as humans do not have the willpower or constitution to make a utopian society sadly, and I fear we never will. I can only do what I do with my life, affect those that I come in contact with, and treat others the way I would want to be treated. That's all anyone can do, but don't fool yourself that all 7 billion+ people will ever have that same mindset; they'll run you over, steal your wallet, take your girl, and make your mom work the street corner (just a joke - no moms were hurt in the making of this statement).

**** And yes I realize by even typing this I am joining in on the coffee shop talks I just described above.

[Shaps]

No one in America has ever had a particularly hard time in life on the grounds that they were a middle aged white male. It's not a stereotype.

Actually that is a stereotype. I'm not saying it's true or false.

I've said it was a stereotype. And by your statement, you must look at a white male... and think their life is easy. Simply based on the fact they are white, and a male. Not how much more of a stereotype you want it to be.

I could say... no one in America is more likely to go to prison on the grounds that they are black.

Per your logic: That is not a stereotype. When in fact it is a stereotype, even though it is statistically correct. Doesn't mean you should look at any black person, and think they've been, or are going, to jail.

Once we reach utopia, and stop stereotyping people.. and just look at them as people, regardless of skin color... there will always be stereotypes.

[Bobmuhthol]

Yeah... I don't think you have a clue what you're saying...

[Thondalar]

a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.

or...

a set of inaccurate, simplistic generalizations about a group that allows others to categorize them and treat them accordingly.

I don't like the second one, because most of the stereotypes i've ever encountered had a very strong element of truth. I mean, it wouldn't be a stereotype otherwise, right? Also, let go of the white guilt already. It's shameful.

[Latrinsorm]

Actually... it is completely implied by what you said.

An inference on your part is not an implication on my part.

That would be like me saying... "a middle aged black guy, which in today's America makes you perhaps the most violent class...." - Same thing right? Statistically speaking I am correct.

I doubt a priori middle aged black men are statistically more violent than young white men, but I am always open to a posteriori evidence.

Evolution is biological, sociological, environmental and any number of other things. Biologically we have evolved over the past 1 million years. Shit, biologically we have evolved over the past 100 due to the hormones and such we put in our foods.

A biological species is that population which can interbreed and produce viable offspring. I can assure you that with a time machine you could bang Queen Victoria and produce viable offspring; hence, humans have not speciated in the time since Queen Victoria (and quite a bit earlier). Certainly there are many who want to believe our current superior state is due to something beyond dumb luck for having been born at this time in this place, but that is not the case. We might even be able to interbreed with Neanderthals, so little have we evolved biologically since prehistoric times.

So you tell me.. progress, status quo, or regress? Look at history... at certain periods we treat each other better... other periods we treat each other badly... and so the cycle will go, because with free will, will come the will of some to fuck with others - either for monetary gain, personal gain, societal gain, cultural gain, or whatever other reason there may be. We are not all equal. No one will ever be born with the same opportunities in life. No one will ever be as pretty or strong or smart as everyone else. We can try to treat those we come in contact with how we would want to be treated. Such a simple concept still holds true after it's inception, due unto others as you would have done unto you.

A trend can have both cyclical and linear components; for instance, sin(x) + x. lim x->inf of sin(x) is undefined, that is true, but it is dominated by lim x->inf of x, so will you be +x, 0, or -x?

How many United States Senators have murdered the President to usurp his position? We have improved on Roman times.
How many of those same Senators hunt our slaves for sport? We have improved on Greek times.
How many of those very same Senators were hauled from their beds (along with their families), tortured, and murdered for being rich Jews? We have improved on European times.

If you want to prove everything cycles back to zero, give me examples.

Even with that bit of guidance, so simple to live by, people have and will continue to not follow it. So you can say I need to evolve or whatever, but you remind me of college kids I run into who have never given back to the community, or gone to the most heinous places on earth and seen what people do to one another, or helped the most under-priviledged people in the world.... yet talk about how "we need to change and sit at a peace rally and love one another" and think they have the solution to the worlds problems, when they themselves have no idea what those real problems are.

It's easy to be the one sitting sipping coffee coming up with ideas about how everyone else should live, unless you are physically in a place, making a difference, affecting real people and their daily lives... well we can all sit around and bullshit, doesn't accomplish much though. Because someone else has to go out there and actually implement the ideas that all the coffee shop intellectuals actually come up with.

We as humans do not have the willpower or constitution to make a utopian society sadly, and I fear we never will. I can only do what I do with my life, affect those that I come in contact with, and treat others the way I would want to be treated. That's all anyone can do, but don't fool yourself that all 7 billion+ people will ever have that same mindset; they'll run you over, steal your wallet, take your girl, and make your mom work the street corner (just a joke - no moms were hurt in the making of this statement).

**** And yes I realize by even typing this I am joining in on the coffee shop talks I just described above.

You are very impressive for going out in the world and doing all these things... but it makes me wonder why you are so reluctant to stop using a single racial slur to describe a single sports team. It seems to me like having physically made a difference by affecting real peoples' daily loves would make it that much easier for you to make such a tiny concession.

[Shaps]

a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.

or...

a set of inaccurate, simplistic generalizations about a group that allows others to categorize them and treat them accordingly.

I don't like the second one, because most of the stereotypes i've ever encountered had a very strong element of truth. I mean, it wouldn't be a stereotype otherwise, right? Also, let go of the white guilt already. It's shameful.

Thond,
The point I'm trying to make, is that they said they weren't stereotyping. Which they are. Which the definition you posted supports.

As for the white guilt, not sure what you are referring to. /shrug

[cwolff]

Thond,
The point I'm trying to make, is that they said they weren't stereotyping. Which they are. Which the definition you posted supports.

As for the white guilt, not sure what you are referring to. /shrug

You're obfuscating what they are talking about with some sort of 'I know you are but what am I' level argument.

White men in the US have had it so good that we even passed laws to try to give women and other racial groups chance to compete. We're not a protected class and we've run this country from the beginning. You know that and you know what Lanistrom was talking about so don't act stupid or as if you are innocently trying to educate the masses. Whatever you were saying before obviously didn't stand because instead of dealing with an objection to your point directly you're attempting to deflect to conversation.