Trump Indicted in Georgia

[Solkern]

Point taken. It’s really not difficult to get past a grand jury, but trial is a whole different matter.

In everything you are saying, I’m asking what can you point to as evidence that Trump specifically told the rioters to violently attack the Capitol & hold Mike Pence hostage so he can defraud the government? Trump had no obligation to tell them to go home, but that action doesn’t support this narrative that Trump planned all this & incited a riot. I heard so-and-so say that Trump said doesn’t count in court. I haven’t seen anything thus far that directly ties Trump to the charges. This is why I have said that particular case is weak-sauce.

I’m sure when he goes to court, we will either see the evidence or it’s all bullshit.

[SHAFT]

I’m sure when he goes to court, we will either see the evidence or it’s all bullshit.

Of course there’s evidence. The MAGA’s will continue their mental gymnastics and cry about it.

[Seran]

Im not yet up to speed on the latest Georgia indictment, but I’ll focus on what you said here about January 6th for just a moment. This is false and disingenuous. All the exhaustive evidence we have seen thus far doesn’t paint this picture. The rioters were almost entirely unarmed. Trump didn’t say to the crowd “grab your rifles, break into the Capitol, and hold Mike Pence hostage.” He tweeted to tell the rioters to go home. The burden of proof is to directly connect Trump as legally responsible for the riot. What specific evidence (not hearsay and not far fetched circumstantial) do you think points Trump to organize a violent mob and send them to attack the Capitol in the manner of which you described?

How many hours did he wait to tell them to go home while people he organized at the Whitehouse? Are we forgetting Team Trump telling everyone to fight like hell? The only disingenuous argument here is your own to try and explain away Trump's organizing a violent mob.

[SHAFT]

I say the opposite. Boom, I just broke your "argument". Please take a fucking debate class.

Ninety. One. Felonies.

Probably be more when states like AZ, MI and PA get involved.

91. Oooooooooooweeeeeeeeeee

[Solkern]

Point taken. It’s really not difficult to get past a grand jury, but trial is a whole different matter.

In everything you are saying, I’m asking what can you point to as evidence that Trump specifically told the rioters to violently attack the Capitol & hold Mike Pence hostage so he can defraud the government? Trump had no obligation to tell them to go home, but that action doesn’t support this narrative that Trump planned all this & incited a riot. I heard so-and-so say that Trump said doesn’t count in court. I haven’t seen anything thus far that directly ties Trump to the charges. This is why I have said that particular case is weak-sauce.

Let me clarify a bit, you don’t need to give a “direct order” to tell someone to attack. Let’s imagine I’m the leader of an armed biker gang, and I go up my crew at the bar and say, Yo, these fuckers disrespected me, let’s go talk to them. You know damn well, my biker gang would roll up, heavily armed and ready for war. Now, let’s imagine there was a shooting, I didn’t tell them to grab their guns, or we are going to fight, but my intention was clear to them but maybe to someone outside of the gang, who heard me say that, they didn’t think this would happen based on my words, nor did I ever tell them to directly do what I wanted them to do.

An angry group of armed men, who have undying support for Trump, believe every word he says and take things to extreme, and in some cases believe him to be their god, (this would be his gang) when Trump says let’s meet up and let’s head to the Capitol, we need to take back our country, and fight like hell or whatever, much like my biker gang, those people are going to arm up and prepare to “take back our country” and “fight like hell” in whichever way they are fit, and they will take it to an extreme.

Trump has a history of extremely fiery speech, that can be taken in any number of ways, such as telling the proud boys, “Stand back, and stand by” or whatever he said.

You aren’t an undying loyal Trump supporter that believes everything he says, or think he’s some sort of god, like the ones who stormed the Capitol. What they heard Trump say, and what you heard Trump say have two completely different interpretations.

So once again, you have people, who stormed the Capitol, telling us, Trump told us to do it. Why shouldn’t we believe them?

Do you think when the biker dude is in court for murder, and he says my boss told us to do it, that the judge is going to believe me when I said “no I didn’t your honor, I said “let’s go talk to them.””. I really meant just talk to them? Of course not. I’ll be also charged with murder.

[Parkbandit]

Of course there’s evidence. The MAGA’s will continue their mental gymnastics and cry about it.

[Parkbandit]

So once again, you have people, who stormed the Capitol, telling us, Trump told us to do it. Why shouldn’t we believe them?

Let's see the actual evidence on this claim.

Everything about January 6th was orchestrated to get a desired result.

Everything.

[Suppressed Poet]

How many hours did he wait to tell them to go home while people he organized at the Whitehouse? Are we forgetting Team Trump telling everyone to fight like hell? The only disingenuous argument here is your own to try and explain away Trump's organizing a violent mob.

If you’re measuring the time with a stop watch, when do you think he should have tweeted for them to go home? He was under no obligation to do so but he did.

“Fight like hell” does not equal or imply “take up arms, break into the Capitol, and hold Mike Pence hostage so that he cannot cetify election results” despite what the January 6th Comission told you live on MSNBC.

[Suppressed Poet]

I’m sure when he goes to court, we will either see the evidence or it’s all bullshit.

Fair enough and agreed. To further clarify, my opinion of the case being weak is based on the evidence we have seen thus far. It’s been beaten to death with the J6 commission and such. It’s entirely possible the prosecution has new or additional evidence we haven’t seen & didn’t include in the indictment. Possible, but my assessment is low probability.

[Seran]

If you’re measuring the time with a stop watch, when do you think he should have tweeted for them to go home? He was under no obligation to do so but he did.

“Fight like hell” does not equal or imply “take up arms, break into the Capitol, and hold Mike Pence hostage so that he cannot cetify election results” despite what the January 6th Comission told you live on MSNBC.

If analyze that single act, without any other facts or events which occured then you would be correct. But that isn't the situation here. Parties were invited and Trump actually tried to force the secret service to not be divested of weapons by removing the metal detectors. Trump got all those parties in place by advertising the opportunity to save their country, a location blocks away from the capital building, and proceeded though his and associates testimony to rile up the crowd and get them ready to fight for the freedom they were convinced they lost. Trump then explicitly urged them to march on the capital building. At this point, causality was established.

What now? Again in a nutshell you only have inciting a riot and disruption of Congress. But wait there is more, there is the documented plan circulated by Trump officials and attorneys to use the chaos of their attempts to thwart the count of the vote, Pence refusing to certify, violence and disruption of the certification, so that Congress didn't meet it's prescribed deadline under the Electoral College Act. That was their DOCUMENTED PLAN. But it failed, because Pence decided not to play along. Trump actually announced this and what happened next with their anger and violence towards Pence "hang Mike Pence" was a direct result of Trump's urging.

Trump waited HOURS to act, and prosecutors are arguing this, because his hope was events would play out that certification couldn't happen one way or the other to invoke the clause in the electoral college act that Congress then vote to decide the President, not delegates. Again this was the documented plan.

All of the above is why this is a conspiracy by Trump to stay President.