Originally Posted by
Tgo01
I did the work for you all so you can see the drama unfold as it did on Discord:
Nidal
There is a post-cap giant warrior named Bjarn who still plays... just a heads-up as you might want to change the npc name. Bjarn (the warrior) has had that name for a long time.
Irondwarf
Fame List -- Warriors -- Starting Rank 1
__
Rank| Name | Fame |Lvl|G| Race
------------------------------------------------
6 Glaves 1,750,196,353 100 M Halflin
12 Vindicate 1,425,004,634 100 M Giant
17 Roblar 1,230,026,950 100 M Giant
27 Azanoth 1,057,363,216 100 M Giant
38 Lexbubba 943,669,661 100 M Giant
51 Whayle 786,916,009 100 M Halflin
58 Venruki 698,468,767 100 M Dwarf
77 Attalynx 573,793,225 100 M Giant
85 Kerl 509,265,114 100 M Human
90 Raythiel 500,082,219 100 M Human
98 Bjarn 475,178,727 100 M Giant
Dendum
Maybe he opened a yarn shop
Lithyia
Well congrats to him, he now has a yarn barn. LOL!
Xynwen
Maybe Bjarn who sells yarn is wanted somewhere and needs to hide behind bigger shoulders!
Kiki
Going into the yarn business to get away from a life of raiding ships. He became too well-known, wanted on every coast from Torre to Atan Irith.
Nidal
This is all very funny but hopefully the NPC gets changed. The idea that an NPC can be created with the exact same name as an existing character seems real weird.
Kiki
I'm sure as soon as Casil sees this, he'll address it.
Nidal
I think so too ��
Shan
(it's definitely not the first time this has happened!)
Xeraphina
So, to clarify on this point: Names do not get to be used multiple times in game unless someone renames a character and that name becomes available. So an NPC in this case cannot share the same name as a player character. That being said, in the cart, I see nothing that indicates that an actual NPC is in the wagon selling the yarn. It was just a name that was used for the shop and the announcement.
The only time we may run into this is not a GM-run NPC character, and I can confirm that there are some "automated" NPCs who share names with each other, and with characters.
Xynwen
Definitely what Xeraphina said. We cannot roll up a "used" name any more than a player can. But stories, names of those NPCs that aren't "live" (aka like the old warrior or the flower girl....physical things that roam about but aren't characters logged in from an account), shop merchants when you ORDER, etc....all of those can and probably do sometimes overlap names
Flapjack
Shouldn't it be a requirement for GM's to use NAMECHECK before they name a shop? We have to do it if we don't want to be fumbling to come up with a name when making a new character.
Xeraphina
Characters are not the same as shops.
Flapjack
Yea but this is a warrior on FAME 1, it's like naming a shop Roblar's Cobbler or something lol
Ptolemy
I feel like this isnt a huge problem. Im sure it will get sorted
Nidal
Bleeds Seeds, for all your gardening needs
Xeraphina
Blood makes the grass grow.
Ptolemy
Its not even unique. Greth the MH bar owner and very prominent NPC is a name shared with a PC
Kiki
Who even pays attention to fame?
It's such an arbitrary list
Irondwarf
People who are on it
Kiki
Like there was a level 70 paladin on there for a while
Nidal
It could be Roblar or it could be a level 3 warrior who started last week I don't think either's name should be a shop in game unless it's their playershop. I'm not gonna keep harping on it and I'm confident the shop name will get updated
Flapjack
Exactly
Kiki
I'll start racking up my bug reports
Peam
This seems like a very simple fix.
Xynwen
I've let Casil know, and I'm sure when he's awake and functional, he'll look into options. Just note, that it isn't inherently wrong (as others have pointed out with like the Greth situation), but we understand the points being made, and you know we try hard to make sure we minimize issues whenever possible.
Nidal
Thank you
Xynwen
(Also, maybe Bjarn would be tickled! You never know!)
Iskandr
I see a FotF match in the making: Bjarn vs Bjarn inside Bjarn's Yarn Barn inside Yander' Farm Barn
Xeraphina
The winner is: Bjarn!
Iskandr
The winner is everyone ��
Kiki
Except Yander. Who is gonna have to clean up this mess. Or leave that to Krys
Teveriel
I’m on it. Can confirm I don’t care.
Casil
Well things got spicy in here while I was asleep. I added an extra n to the shop name, since Bjarn isn't around to tell me if it bugs him or not.
Casil
Hardly.
Illumiada
i don't at all mean to be disrespectful, and i definitely understand that you guys get incoming all day about complaints, but this doesn't seem like a compromise to me in a place where simply changing the name entirely wouldn't be super difficult (even going to say, fjarn! would be giving a bit more). you have a player who RPs a warlord who doesn't want a cute lil yarn shop named after him. that seems reasonable to me.
Kiki
But what about the player Farn?
Who has a root beer named after him in Solhaven
Illumiada
i don't really see how that's salient
Kiki
If the concern is that Bjarnn is too close to Bjarn how is Fjarn not too close to Farn?
Illumiada
again, not trying to be a jerk, but seems like bjarn the player is p upset about this.
good point @Kiki, the name was just a suggestion. i'd personally love to see something that didn't have a player character name at all
Kiki
But what I'm saying is that's kind of a big, almost impossible ask.
Casil
It's extremely difficult to have a name that isn't remotely close to another character ever created.
Illumiada
sure
Kiki
Last night Lady Maleise came to visit Ta'Vaalor (An npc and merchant)
Casil
I have not heard from Bjarn on this at this time.
Kiki
I have played Maleisse since 2010.
It's totally reasonable to me that there would be variations on that.
Illumiada
@Kiki if your point is bjarn the player should just get over it, you've made it
Kiki
My point is I just don't think it's feasible for players or GMs to go through every possible iteration of an existing character name.
Illumiada
sure
i'm picking up what you're putting down. i don't think it's black and white, but it's okay that we disagree
Lithyia
There's way too much spiciness in here over the name of a temporary yarn wagon. Listen, if @Casil wants to change it and name it after Lithyia, she'll be thrilled.
Illumiada
i'll let bjarn the player weigh in tho
Lithyia
Lithyrrrsss yrrrrn brrrrn
Seriously, @Casil I want this now. Plzzzz?
Casil
So, thus far I have not heard actually from Bjarn yet. If Bjarn is upset about it, I implore him to reach out; I have only heard about it from other people who have pointed out that Bjarn is an existing character name.
Tikba
I didn't want to bring this up, but I've had a character named Yarne for a decade or so
(not true)
Lithyia
Yarne's Barn O Yarn?
Xynwen
Bjarn's Yarn Barn is perfectly acceptable just FYI
It's been updated to the also perfectly acceptable Bjarnn's Yarn Barn out of courtesy for the consternation expressed here by players who are NOT Bjarn.
I believe that's a valid response, and please, let's go ahead and move on to a new topic?
Machtig
this all could have been avoided if there was a system you could name check with to avoid duplicating player character names, but that's probably a chore to implement
Flapjack
I'm just catching up, I still think it's a very reasonable request that GM's use an existing feature of the game, namely NAMECHECK, before they create any NPC names, whether it be just the name of a shop or a GM controlled character.
I also think that it's very cheeky and bordering on unprofessional for a GM to just be like "I'LL JUST ADD AN EXTRA LETTER TEE HEE" as a solution.
Also, I am on the fame lists and I'd be PEEVED if a GM made Flapjack's Snack Shack
Nidal
Not going to rehash anything above but just to note I think it's pretty obvious that all of us non-TV regulars posting all of a sudden are friends of the person who plays Bjarn, which is why we've raised this, and we've let them know, if they decide to come by and chime in they will.
Xeraphina
GM Xynwen has asked that we move this along.
Flapjack
We're your customers giving feedback on something that we don't like, and you're basically telling us to drop it. Not a good look!
I'm done.
Xeraphina
The feedback has been heard.
Mirkk
Love all the gift wagon offerings this year! Definitely some wonderful items/themes!
Loralaii
Ew, being dismissive is gross. Js
Valyrka
The gm asked the player to reached out and I am sure will take appropriate action if there is an issue. No one is being dismissive and I am sure it will be handle with the player involved
Lithyia
My offer still stands to name it after me. I'd be thrilled and honored. LOL!
Kiki
This sense of weird entitlement isn't a good look. It was already addressed by staff and they've asked everyone to move on.
Casil
Speaking of gift wagon offerings, there's a new candy cane rack up for your gift package-stuffing needs.
Loralaii
And yet here you are....
Irondwarf
Hey I'm the player of bjarn, I don't want to be a yarn merchant on my warrior i've spent years leveling, thank you for backing me into the corner and making me now known as the yarn karen this is literally why everyone hates interacting with staff on discord, truly professional.
Lithyia
OMG seriously? Enough.
Kiki
This is also probably why staff gets burnt out doing nice things.
Irondwarf
Good riddance
Flapjack
Sorry you had to doxx yourself @Irondwarf
Jastalyn
��
Casil
No one had to doxx themselves. My DMs were open.
Valyrka
This has more than run its course. The two parties can discuss in private. Please move on from it here and let those involved handle it.
Flapjack
Just LOL
Valyrka
I am going to ask for the last time that it stops.
Flapjack
FWIW it really sucks to come into discord and have the GM's join in mocking you with the local sycophant crew. Enjoy your little echo chamber
Peam
Gosh, sorry for bringing up a legitimate concern and being upset when it's handwaved away and then dealt with in the most dismissive manner possible.
I'll leave y'all to your echo chamber.
Machtig
yeah, pretty clear statement that GM's don't say anything about the people ridiculing and mocking but draw a line in the sand when it comes to others
Xynwen
Guys, we did update the name to not be a character name. We asked you to move on, because it was fixed. We did not ask a player to out themselves on Discord, as you could have DM'd or assisted in game to let us know, and I'm sorry that was not clear.
We appreciate feedback, for sure, and we moved to address it. The request to stop was not just about the people who brought it to our attention, but also about the people who were questioning why it was brought up or saying it was fine, etc.....so no one had to feel badly about bringing it up. That was literally the point of requesting you move on.
It is appreciated that we are all so passionate about the game, and while yes, we do see it as a minor thing, we have updated it so it isn't the same as an existing character, and we appreciate that you let us know it was a concern.
Teveriel
Somewhere in Scandinavia, Bjarn Svensson and Bjarn Olafsson are about to throw down to determine who’s the One True Bjarn once and for all
Nidal
I don't think I'm usually adversarial with staff. I am not trying to be now. I do honestly think that 'ok we added an 'n' ' was a shocking response and to me seemed petty and like it was blowing off legitimate concerns. Disappointed that's what happened. I'll see myself out of this channel now.
Thandiwe ��
Hello Irondwarf, I'm sorry that you are so upset and stressed by this newest revelation. When we check for a name it only checks for the letter of what we are requesting. It can also be hard after years for us to know which names are still around and not simply archived. As has been pointed out this is being addressed by the GMs that it affects and we are going to work toward a resolution that will make everyone happy. Should an issue like this arise again, then you are welcome to write feedback as it may be more discrete so that you aren't feeling awkward about your request and others aren't pointing fingers. At this time I would like everyone to simply take a step back, take a beat, and let us work to find a happy resolution. Many of us are still working at our Day Jobs and changes can be slow during this time.
And it sounds like the shop is already changed.
Irondwarf
Oh I did write feedback
Thandiwe ��
Okay, we'll be sure to address your concerns.
Irondwarf
The extra comments from the peanut gallery really help thank you
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I will say the GMs probably could have handled this better. I get they thought it was cute to name the shop "Bjarn's Yarn Barn", and it probably never occurred to them that a character named "Bjarn" might still play or object to their character's name being used, but their solution to just add another N to Bjarn (so now "Bjarnn's Yarn Barn") did seem kind of dismissive to the player. Yeah "Bjarn's Yarn Barn" rhymes and is cute, but they probably should have just came up with a whole new name, or at least a whole new spelling of "Bjarn."
And this sentence especially seems dismissive to me: "Hello Irondwarf, I'm sorry that you are so upset and stressed by this newest revelation."
Maybe Thandiwe didn't mean it that way, but it does kind of read sarcastic and belittling.
BANNED 4 LYFE
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