FBI raid on Trump's home

[Parkbandit]

I seem upset by calling you an edgelord? Okay.

You claimed "no one cares", but it's clear you do.

[time4fun]

It actually does.

Tell me though, what does science tell us about when a fetus can feel pain or develop the basic capacities for processing stimuli from the external world? For what evidence do you require to be considered a human being?

Actually it's generally believed that a fetus isn't capable of feeling pain (or consciousness) until into the third trimester.

The 20 weeks threshold is actually based on traditional abortion law in the US. While people often like say that abortion was illegal for most of US history, what actually qualified as an abortion was very different originally. Legally and philosophically, people didn't consider a fetus to be a person until "the quickening" (basically when you started to feel it kick). Prior to that, abortion was referred to as "returning menses" (or various versions of that). There's a great article here from a historian who explains the history very clearly.

And one of the reasons why the quickening standard was alive and well for so long was that the Bible explicitly differentiates between a fetus and a human life in Exodus 21:22-25

When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Basically the Bible tells us that if someone's actions cause a miscarriage, it's treated more or less as destruction of property. But if the woman herself it harmed, then the eye for an eye standard kicks in. (i.e. she's actually a human being)

That's why up until Roe, most American religious denominations didn't care about abortion. It wasn't considered to be sin because the Bible tells us that a fetus is not a human life. It wasn't until after Roe that it began to change, and that was the product of a political campaign strategy.

[drumpel]

Wow....

I didn't know the FBI released all this info from Trump's Bible they must of taken during the raids. This is some really deep....really profound, stupid shit that you morons are going on about.....

It was more entertaining reading about you folks going back and forth about Trump didn't do it and he's innocent or he's a fucking lying thief and deserves to rot in hell! Now I'm bored. Good job, guys. You're boring me.

[Solkern]

Hey, if you believe God days are 1 billion years in length... go for it.

I'll just make fun of you for being a gullible fool.

Also, since the earth is only 4.8 billion years old and it took God 7 days to create it, you might want to check your math.

Actually, the literal earth formed 4.8bln years ago, to get it to that point took a lot longer. Gelston could very well be correct. 2.2bln years to get everything in its place, and it formed 4.8bln years ago. That’s all a part of creation.

[Gelston]

You claimed "no one cares", but it's clear you do.

I really don’t.

[Neveragain]

That's why up until Roe, most American religious denominations didn't care about abortion. It wasn't considered to be sin because the Bible tells us that a fetus is not a human life.

What other kind of life is it?

DNA proves that it's an individual human being.

An acorn is still the same species as the oak that produced it. Oddly, you want to ignore this when it comes to the human species.

There's nothing in that passage that suggests any form of time period. Please stop trying to use religion to justify your support of genocide, it's been done far too often to not recognize what you knowingly or unknowingly support.

[Parkbandit]

Actually, the literal earth formed 4.8bln years ago, to get it to that point took a lot longer. Gelston could very well be correct. 2.2bln years to get everything in its place, and it formed 4.8bln years ago. That’s all a part of creation.

Fantastic as usual.

Thank you Solkern.. you really added some clarity to the entire conversation.

[Parkbandit]

I really don’t.

Very convincing.

[Suppressed Poet]

Actually it's generally believed that a fetus isn't capable of feeling pain (or consciousness) until into the third trimester.

The 20 weeks threshold is actually based on traditional abortion law in the US. While people often like say that abortion was illegal for most of US history, what actually qualified as an abortion was very different originally. Legally and philosophically, people didn't consider a fetus to be a person until "the quickening" (basically when you started to feel it kick). Prior to that, abortion was referred to as "returning menses" (or various versions of that). There's a great article here from a historian who explains the history very clearly.

And one of the reasons why the quickening standard was alive and well for so long was that the Bible explicitly differentiates between a fetus and a human life in Exodus 21:22-25



Basically the Bible tells us that if someone's actions cause a miscarriage, it's treated more or less as destruction of property. But if the woman herself it harmed, then the eye for an eye standard kicks in. (i.e. she's actually a human being)

That's why up until Roe, most American religious denominations didn't care about abortion. It wasn't considered to be sin because the Bible tells us that a fetus is not a human life. It wasn't until after Roe that it began to change, and that was the product of a political campaign strategy.

Yep it’s generally 24 weeks when a fetus can feel emotions like pain. So you’re basically agreeing with me that at 24 weeks a fetus is a person, and we have no reason to argue? Great. I think 24 weeks is a fair compromise on the abortion law issue if that’s what you are getting at.

And you are totally wrong again about the quickening. It’s an internal energy that immortals are born with and can only be released by beheading. Go back and watch the Highlander.

[Tgo01]

Great. I think 24 weeks is a fair compromise on the abortion law issue if that’s what you are getting at.

Let's get real, that's not what she or any other Democrat is getting at.

All of this kind of talk is just a distraction. It's the same thing when they use rape and incest to push their unfettered access to abortion mantra. They aren't saying they would be okay with banning all other abortions except in the case of rape and incest, they are merely using victims of rape and incest as pawns to push for unlimited abortions on demand.

Democrats don't even want to outlaw eugenics in abortions, they are perfectly okay with a woman being told their baby is a boy and the woman saying "Oh a boy? I was hoping for a girl. Okay time to abort it!"