That common sense, that the magistrate who signed off on the warrant would have been shown probable cause that an evidence of an existing or ongoing crime was taking place, escapes the blind loyalty of the shrinking few.Originally Posted by Solkern
Senior Member
That common sense, that the magistrate who signed off on the warrant would have been shown probable cause that an evidence of an existing or ongoing crime was taking place, escapes the blind loyalty of the shrinking few.
God of Tits and Wine
If there isn’t a record of him declassifying the shit he stole while in office it’s still classified.
Senior Member
We're not disagreeing on that point. I brought up the Presidential Records Act because it seemed you were suggesting that whether or not it was illegal for Trump to have had those records in his possession was dependent on their classification status. It was illegal no matter what.
Remember though- the Presidential Records Act was put into place as a Congressional oversight response to Nixon trying to destroy records to cover up his illegal actions. Nixon's Administration decided to claim that all of Nixon's records were actually Nixon's private property and therefore not subject to any statutes pertaining to government records. So Congress passed the Bill to make it clear that they were actually the property of the Federal government and to create a series of processes to ensure these records weren't lost or, more specifically, weren't taken away and hidden or destroyed.
That's why the Act has no explicit enforcement mechanism. It's not that the law is toothless and irrelevant (or was ever intended to be toothless or irrelevant), it's that its role was to establish that existing criminal statutes and their enforcement mechanisms were very much in play with these specific records, no matter what the Executive Branch decided to claim.
Senior Member
Tgo, Trump also made the following claims:
Obama took tons of documents about nuclear programs home with him to Chicago (NARA shot that down fast)
GSA put the wrong boxes on the truck (GSA shot that down too)
His lawyer was never served a warrant (his lawyer's signature is on the warrant)
The FBI planted evidence to frame him (He and his family were able to watch the entire thing via CCTV, so there's literally no way)
That as of June, he had returned ALL classified material to the Federal government. That was signed by his lawyer btw. (obviously he didn't)
And finally, Trump wasn't actually there because he was busy pleading the 5th over 400 times in a criminal tax evasion deposition
So can we just stop and have a reality check for a moment here? So is your argument that Trump told ALL of these lies about the situation in the space of like 48 hours, but we're supposed to take his "Oh I declassified these a long time ago in my head even though they still have classification markers and nobody else knew about it" claim at face value? Even though he didn't make that claim until after he told the DoJ that he had no more classified information, and they ended up finding numerous highly classified records in his home?
Do me a favor and replace the word "Trump" with Biden or Clinton or Big Bird. Now tell us all with a straight face that we should take what that person is saying at face value.
Last edited by time4fun; 08-13-2022 at 02:55 PM.
It is a civil deposition.
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
He didn't say his lawyer didn't see the warrant, he said she barely got a chance to read it.
Right. It's impossible for the FBI to add a few documents to the pile of documents they stole in order to frame him.
You can call bullshit on his allegations all you want, but don't gaslight the shit out of everyone by claiming it is literally impossible to plant evidence simply because his house had CCTV.
It is absolutely stunning for you to say we can't trust Trump because he supposedly lies all of the time while you yourself are lying through your teeth in the very same post.
Last edited by Tgo01; 08-13-2022 at 03:01 PM.
Senior Member
That's actually a fair fact check. I mixed up the cases. Respectfully withdrawn.
There are two parallel cases. They haven't gotten to questioning him about the criminal one yet.
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
Senior Member
What kind of lawyer signs something of this importance without reading it first?
Senior Member
Tgo saying they were "barely able to see it" is the equivalent of saying they weren't given the warrant. Because if they had been given the warrant, it would be impossible to say they didn't have time to see it. And Trump's lawyer had a full statement about the contents of the warrant based on a copy in their possession literally the next day.
And yes Tgo, you're right that it's theoretically possible the FBI planted evidence. But the fact that the entire thing was being watched by Trump and his family on CCTV makes it VERY unlikely. I'll also point out that Trump lied about this too, claiming that the FBI allowed NO witnesses while also hinting that there was somehow something unusual about his lawyer not being allowed to watch the raid. (There isn't)
And PS Christopher Wray, head of the FBI, is a Trump appointee.
You are falling into the same loop that I called you out on to begin with Tgo. You're not paying attention to the multitude of lies Trump has been spitting out in rapid fire since this happened. And you're also blatantly ignoring the fact that Trump hasn't presented a single bit of evidence that anything was planted. One might expect him to say something like "We went through those records thoroughly, and I can attest that there was no TS/ISC or other classified information in there when we searched". Instead he's going with a vague hypothetical. "They COULD HAVE planted evidence!" He loves to do that.
And my whole point here is that you have completely excised any and all common sense you have in this situation. You KNOW better.
Last edited by time4fun; 08-13-2022 at 03:59 PM.
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