FBI raid on Trump's home

[Gelston]

It's actually an irrelevant question anyway. Even if we adopt the stance that Trump had the ability to psychically declassify material without going through the proper channels set up by the Executive Branch (and therefore *his* own rules for declassification), he's no longer an original classification authority. The Biden administration clearly considers anything marked as classified to be classified (and therefore it is), and DoJ has been telling Trump that this stuff is classified and have been negotiating with Trump for months. So he has been holding on to Top Secret documents that were being held outside of the special government facilities where they are legally required to reside.

Don't get distracted by arguments over whether or not they were declassified at the time they were taken. It's an important legal question, but regardless of the answer it doesn't make what he's been doing since he's left office legal.

This was yet another severe dereliction of the core part of his duty as a President. Just one more in a long line of shocking, intentional failures.

So, as President, he could store classified documents wherever the fuck he wanted. He could keep them in his bathroom if he wanted.

The ENTIRE crux of the matter is if the documents were classified or not.

[Tgo01]

It's actually an irrelevant question anyway. Even if we adopt the stance that Trump had the ability to psychically declassify material without going through the proper channels set up by the Executive Branch (and therefore *his* own rules for declassification), he's no longer an original classification authority. The Biden administration clearly considers anything marked as classified to be classified (and therefore it is)

First of all: no shit Trump no longer has the authority to declassify anything. He has clearly stated he declassified the documents while he was still president. You can be like Shaft and just pretend you know he never did that, but don't pretend people are saying something they aren't.

Second of all: that's not how it works. If Trump declassified the documents then they are declassified. Biden can't just come along and say "LOL! Anything marked classified is classified! Jail time for you! LOL LOL LOL LOL!"

Lastly: what happened to you crying about Trump for going after his political opponents/Hillary? Now that Biden is actually doing the exact same thing you literally cried about Trump just saying he was going to do, you suddenly think it's okay for president's to go after their political opponents.

"Tyrants are bad! Unless they are Democrats! LOL!" - time4fun

[time4fun]

So, as President, he could store classified documents wherever the fuck he wanted. He could keep them in his bathroom if he wanted.

The ENTIRE crux of the matter is if the documents were classified or not.

No, the primary question is if they ARE classified or not and if Trump has been aware of that fact (or had reason to suspect or reasonably should have known). Biden decides if things are classified right now, not Trump. The second Trump left office, he no longer had any say in this. If the Biden Administration says "If it has classification markers, it's classified" (which was also the official stance of the Trump administration) and if the DoJ has been telling Trump and his lawyers that they need him to return those records, then Trump is potentially in violation of Federal law.

"He psychically declassified Top Secret material with serious national defense implications and made the choice to remove that material to an unsecure personal residence without actually going through the process his own administration required for something to be declassified" is an incredibly shaky argument.

But it's also an argument that ceased to matter once he left office and was informed that he needed to return those records because the DoJ suspected some of it of being classified.

[Seran]

I haven't guessed at anything. I said what he had the power to do, not that he did it.

Reading comprehension always escapes you.

Playing devils advocate in rebuttal without clarifying that you don't believe it's the truth, but logically could be argued a certain way, doesn't make you look intelligent. It makes you look like an idiot.

[Gelston]

Playing devils advocate in rebuttal without clarifying that you don't believe it's the truth, but logically could be argued a certain way, doesn't make you look intelligent. It makes you look like an idiot.

You are extremely knowledgeable about looking like an idiot, so I’ll defer to your experience.

[Gelston]

No, the primary question is if they ARE classified or not and if Trump has been aware of that fact (or had reason to suspect or reasonably should have known). Biden decides if things are classified right now, not Trump. The second Trump left office, he no longer had any say in this. If the Biden Administration says "If it has classification markers, it's classified" (which was also the official stance of the Trump administration) and if the DoJ has been telling Trump and his lawyers that they need him to return those records, then Trump is potentially in violation of Federal law.

"He psychically declassified Top Secret material with serious national defense implications and made the choice to remove that material to an unsecure personal residence without actually going through the process his own administration required for something to be declassified" is an incredibly shaky argument.

But it's also an argument that ceased to matter once he left office and was informed that he needed to return those records because the DoJ suspected some of it of being classified.

If things were declassified before Biden became President, he can’t, in good faith, declare them all of a suddenly classified.

[Sighisoara]

Second of all: that's not how it works. If Trump declassified the documents then they are declassified. Biden can't just come along and say "LOL! Anything marked classified is classified! Jail time for you! LOL LOL LOL LOL!"

Taking the snark out, I’m curious what you’re basing your opinion on. Do you believe an administration can not classify or declassify anything not protected by federal statute?

[Sighisoara]

If things were declassified before Biden became President, he can’t, in good faith, declare them all of a suddenly classified.

I’ll ask you the same thing, why not?

[Sighisoara]

Playing devils advocate in rebuttal without clarifying that you don't believe it's the truth, but logically could be argued a certain way, doesn't make you look intelligent. It makes you look like an idiot.

It’s significantly more intelligent than just making shit up like you do.

[time4fun]

If things were declassified before Biden became President, he can’t, in good faith, declare them all of a suddenly classified.

So you're actually starting to hit at the real issue here: a President CANNOT just "privately decide" that something is magically classified or declassified. If it actually worked that way, then former Presidents would effectively have lifetime privileges to declassify anything created up until the last day of their administration (OH! Didn't I tell you? I declassified that already!"), and it would give any current President the ability to make anyone with any government records at all a felon.

That's why the processes exist- processes that the Executive Branch created, mind you. So to be very clear- a President CANNOT snap their fingers and make something classified/declassified. They have the authority to decide what what should be classified/declassified. But it still has to actually be classified/declassified. And it's obvious in this case that this stuff wasn't- because it still has classification markers.

But you're also missing a key issue here: the DoJ has been working with Trump for 15 months to try to recover these documents. There have been two court-ordered subpoenas, the FBI has forcibly removed documents from his residence several time even before this raid, and they've been telling him and his lawyers that he has material he's not legally allowed to possess.

So why the hell did he still have this stuff? At this point, Trump was keeping materials that he KNEW he was supposed to return. And you don't accidentally end up with TS/SCI materials. You have to physically remove them from the specific government facilities where they are legally required to be stored. And at any point in time over the last 15 months, he very well could have said "Oh I have some classified stuff, but I declassified it so I don't have to give it back".

He didn't. So the whole "Oh I already declassified it!" argument that just popped up after the FBI Raid found him in possession of materials that could very well land him in Federal prison rings a bit hollow.