Brian Flores sues the NFL for racism

[Shaps]

The Saints have shown they don't give a fuck about media coverage.

Fair enough LOL.

**searches around for some paper bags**

**hands paper bag to Gelston**

Remember the 80s!

[subzero]

I think he has a case here. The job was decided before he was even interviewed, they were only interviewing him because of the Rooney rule.

That's the problem with something like the Rooney Rule. There is zero chance Flores was the first minority 'candidate' interviewed for a position a team already decided was going to someone else for whatever reason.

I don't think it's an easy thing to fix and the Rooney Rule is far from perfect. When you're forced to check a box in order to complete a hiring, sometimes checking that box is simply going to be a matter of going through the motions. There will be times when it's a legit passing on a minority candidate and others where it might lean more toward the shady side or even just a not-so-clear-cut situation where a white guy wins out (it would be interesting to know the number of white coaching candidates vs minority candidates available each year).

Buuut! How does an outsider see the results of a hiring process and decide that this individual/group/team doesn't truly believe the white person they hired is better for the job than the minority candidate(s) that didn't get it? You can't go back years later if the white guy sucks and say, "Oh, that guy was terrible! They clearly just didn't want the non-white person"

As for the whole Flores situation in general... ugh. I'm a Dolphins fan. I thought it was a stupid move to fire Flores; who the fuck are they going to replace him with? They wanted DaBoll. He's staying up in NY. Now they're fucked. I will want to hurt someone if I hear that they hire Kellen Fucking Moore as their HC. I liked Flores as their coach and in general I think the NFL is too quick to move on from people. When I first saw this story come out, I couldn't help but think, "Oh god. Here we go".

There's been a little more to come out since that initial story and I don't know, kind of seems like there might be something to it. Not so much with the racism aspect - I don't think any of us as outsiders who don't know any of the people involved and weren't part of the interviewing process can offer any real insight on that. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not. We do know that one team did hire him, though, so... /shrug

To me, what might be the bigger issue in this is the allegations of team owner Stephen Ross offering 100k per loss in order for the team to tank and get a higher draft pick so they could take Burrow. I think that could have some serious repercussions for Ross and potentially the team if they are able to prove that he was offering money for them to lose. If it turns out to be true, do they force Ross out and sell the team?

Also, the NY Giants hired Joe Schoen as their new GM. Joe came from the Bills front office.. where he already knew and had a relationship with Brian Daboll, the new Giants head coach.

It's going to be difficult for Flores to prove the reason he didn't get the job was because he is black... given the relationship between new GM and new coach.

Stuff like that is exactly what makes it so hard to pin racism on people in these cases. A LOT of these guys know each other. Whether they've learned and worked together or whatever, personal ties do exist and are likely to influence hirings.

The Rooney rule sounds racist and ineffective at the same time.

Sure sounds like this guy was interviewed only so they could satisfy the Rooney rule because from what I can understand the Rooney rule doesn't require the team to give more consideration for "diverse" candidates, it literally just requires the team to interview at least one "diverse" candidate.

Heh, they're talking about expanding it to require more minority interviews. That is NOT the solution, morons!

I find all of this so absurd. The NFL only cares about one thing, making money. If they thought a purple people eater from Mars would get them the wins they needed they would hire it. They have given play time to some of the most reprehensible people, people I would not trust anyone I care about around, but they did it because they scored points and made them money.

Oh, you mean the NFL that gave the Michael Vicks and Ray Rices opportunities to play after they did some foul shit, but is a horrible bunch of racist slave drivers because they wouldn't let Kaepernick play foosball anymore because, ya know, he's (half) black? Maybe the NFL just hates half-black people. And Tim Tebow.

And since when is that illegal? I mean the Colts had HUGE signs saying, SUCK FOR LUCK! If the season is a washout anyway, it makes sense to salvage whatever you can from it, even if that is a a better draft position. And the last time I checked the owner was the boss and the coach worked for them, so if your boss tells you to do something and you don't they have the right to shitcan your ass.

I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure there are laws governing things like that. I believe it is safe to say that, no, an owner cannot tell a coach to intentionally lose games and it's ok because he's the owner. It doesn't work that way in this type of sporting league.

Also, considering that the league has gambling ads being run during games and now has a team in Vegas, an owner offering a coach cash incentives to lose games for a higher draft pick (or any reason) is a huge issue for the league and their image in general. As far as I'm aware, one big hurdle the league had with putting a team in Vegas was gambling. Plus, the NFL often touts the parity they've created with the different changes to various things (conference/division re-ordering, scheduling, etc) they've made over the years. They do not want things like this to be taking place. It's not good for anyone including the team(s) that might see some short-term benefits from it. See: Boxing.

He did it in New England.

Then again in Tampa.

Crazy that he didn't want to go do something really cool like get the Jags or Texans a Super Bowl win, huh? Nah... let's go to a stacked team. Fuck that Jaguar nonsense! A single player has never, nor will ever, win a Super Bowl.

Flores was 24-25 over 3 seasons and had a winning record in the last 2. By all accounts, he is a decent football coach.

And he did it with a fairly limited squad.

[Parkbandit]

Crazy that he didn't want to go do something really cool like get the Jags or Texans a Super Bowl win, huh? Nah... let's go to a stacked team. Fuck that Jaguar nonsense! A single player has never, nor will ever, win a Super Bowl.

I wouldn't consider many of the Patriots years as a "stacked team" at all... especially on offense. And the bucs had records of 5-11, 5-11 and 7-9 in the 3 years prior to Brady getting there. He immediately changed the entire culture at One Buc Place. It takes a team to win the Superbowl.. but it only takes 1 great player to change the mindset of the players/coaches.

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I wouldn't consider many of the Patriots years as a "stacked team" at all... especially on offense.

Much as I hate to say it, we can't exactly discount Bellichick's reign as the coach there, either.

And the bucs had records of 5-11, 5-11 and 7-9 in the 3 years prior to Brady getting there. He immediately changed the entire culture at One Buc Place. It takes a team to win the Superbowl.. but it only takes 1 great player to change the mindset of the players/coaches.

Oh, a player can definitely put a team over the hump. I just can't agree that a single player can win a Super Bowl as many like to suggest with someone like Brady.

[Shaps]

Much as I hate to say it, we can't exactly discount Bellichick's reign as the coach there, either.



Oh, a player can definitely put a team over the hump. I just can't agree that a single player can win a Super Bowl as many like to suggest with someone like Brady.

I would agree for 99.9% of players.. but you can't discount that he only missed the playoffs 1 time... in 22 years... and that 1 time? His first full year at QB.

That's 21 years straight - with 10 SB appearances - with 7 SB wins.

If a single player is not able to make that impact, then other players would have similar records because it's a "team game". The year he was injured, NE didn't make the playoffs. The year he left, NE didn't make the playoffs. TB hadn't made the playoffs in like 15+ years... he joins, and they suddenly do.

He's the .1% that has proven it through statistics, that his presence mattered.

It's crazy (and yes I recognize the Team aspect), but his influence is something that is tough to establish and quantify... because we've never seen someone else do it.

[subzero]

I would agree for 99.9% of players.. but you can't discount that he only missed the playoffs 1 time... in 22 years... and that 1 time? His first full year at QB.

That's 21 years straight - with 10 SB appearances - with 7 SB wins.

If a single player is not able to make that impact, then other players would have similar records because it's a "team game". The year he was injured, NE didn't make the playoffs. The year he left, NE didn't make the playoffs. TB hadn't made the playoffs in like 15+ years... he joins, and they suddenly do.

He's the .1% that has proven it through statistics, that his presence mattered.

It's crazy (and yes I recognize the Team aspect), but his influence is something that is tough to establish and quantify... because we've never seen someone else do it.

So, let's simplify this. Are you telling me that at virtually any point in Brady's career, he could have been put on any team in the league and taken them to the Super Bowl?

[Parkbandit]

So, let's simplify this. Are you telling me that at virtually any point in Brady's career, he could have been put on any team in the league and taken them to the Super Bowl?

I'm good friends with 2 people who have worked for the Bucs for 10+ years.

They said when Tom Brady was brought in, he brought a new culture to the team that transformed them from a .500 football team to a Superbowl contender. Everyone changed and anyone who didn't want to buy into the program either left or was let go.... from the kitchen staff to the front office to team players.

Could Brady do that to any team 2 years ago? No. You had to have a full buy into him from everyone involved in the team. The Bucs were a perfect fit for Brady to transform... but it was Brady that was the catalyst and the momentum for that change.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So, let's simplify this. Are you telling me that at virtually any point in Brady's career, he could have been put on any team in the league and taken them to the Super Bowl?

There is no way to answer that except hypothetically. But if you look at his stats I'd be inclined to say he's one of the very very few that could possibly do that, yes.

I'm not even a huge fan of his, never really payed any attention until the last 3-4 years. Dude has more rings than any FRANCHISE. He has some leadership quality, some talent, that the vast majority do not. Yes, luck plays into it some, but talented and hardworking people make their own luck as well. Also ball deflaters.

[Parkbandit]

The date of the text Bill Belichick sent to Brian Flores was 3 days prior to the interview the Giants had with Brian Daboll.

Looks like he had the same speculation I had and not actual inside information.

This is backed by Bill's actual text: "Sorry - I (expletived) this up. I double checked & I misread the text. I think they are naming (Brian) Daboll. I’m sorry about that,”

Not "I have inside information" or "I heard from Frank at the Giants"... but "I think".

[subzero]

They said when Tom Brady was brought in, he brought a new culture to the team that transformed them from a .500 football team to a Superbowl contender. Everyone changed and anyone who didn't want to buy into the program either left or was let go.... from the kitchen staff to the front office to team players.

Could Brady do that to any team 2 years ago? No. You had to have a full buy into him from everyone involved in the team. The Bucs were a perfect fit for Brady to transform... but it was Brady that was the catalyst and the momentum for that change.

I've already said that I agree a player like that can put a good team over the hump. Teams like the 0-16 Lions or 1-15 Dolphins... not gonna happen regardless of how great a single player is. Mike McDaniel recently summed up my point here:

"I haven't seen a quarterback win a football game by himself ever, really," McDaniel said. "He has to have somebody to throw to, he better not be getting tackled before he throws so somebody better block, and the defense had better not allow them to score"