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Fleurs and Krakii are retarded and annoying on the officials. Fleurs won't stop complaining about everything and krakii, well, he never shuts up. Constant posting. I'd ignore both of them but they post so much that no topic would ever make sense with their posts removed. When I attempt to clue them in on their own retardation, my posts get pulled. The officials suck. Notice neither of them tries that stuff here.
I'm going to defend Fleurs to some extent. She has like, a dozen premium accounts, she's familiar with game functions, etc. Any changes are like tossing a grain of sand into a finely tuned machine; any tiny detail throws the whole thing off. There's a justifiable feeling of entitlement with that much investment into anything. Unfortunately, her language doesn't appear proofread for tone, and she ends up coming across much harsher than she means. In my own experiences, like most posters on the officials, she also tends to dwell more on the fixes than the problems, which is counter-intuitive to influencing decision makers.
The most successful individuals that layout exactly what the problems are, why their problems, and then an array of options, enabling the decision maker to make the determination of the best foot forward. Too often on the forums in general, we get focused on what each of us thinks is the solution without going back into the justification and why that path is the best path forward. Hell, I've rewritten my own posts many times as I find myself doing that as well.
Krakii on the other hand, is the Macguiver of the official forums... I don't think there's any thread he hasn't tried to derail with his own misguided, terrible, unsolicited ideas. Krakii is just cancer, and shows absolutely no basic knowledge of any mechanics. I'd be surprised if he's leveled a character beyond 15.
I have a poster of Krakii on my bedroom door, signed "Don't do drugs and keep posting! - Krakii"
My main gripe with Fleurs is that any idea Fleurs did not explicitly invent is replied to (almost immediately) with condescension and a general "I don't like this idea, therefore it is not a good idea" rhetoric. She (Fleurs is a she, right?) doesn't even attempt to justify why ideas she shoots down are "not good". They're just immediately dismissed, and the thread derails into an attempt to convince Fleurs that the ideas should not be dismissed based on one player's opinion - which is also counter intuitive and fails to have a meaningful conversation. In fact, she will continually state "I've expressed why this is a bad idea in past threads, so I don't see any reason to discuss my reasons again" --- ALL THE TIME!!!! Which is infuriating since there is practically zero chance anyone would ever be able to find and these supposed "past threads" (officials suck), that she seems to assume everyone has read and already knows her opinion on various topics, therefore it doesn't require any further explanation. Asinine!!!
Krakii is a nickname that's short for "Crackpot Ideas". I think Krakii is a fairly nice person on the forums, but some of the ideas and follow-up posts to continue to build on these whacky concepts, are way over the top. Like, are we playing the same game??, over the top.
Is Krakii still a passive aggressive douchebag?
No, Fleurs is just a whiny bitch.
This. I think she might be bipolar.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew
Justifiable? No. Regardless of how much money you put into the game, the only thing you're entitled to is general access to the game and its features. Nothing ever, EVER justifies threatening to quit or pitching a hissy fit every time something does not go your way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlin
The one thing I will say for Fleurs is that she tends to pipe right up and give her opinion whether it's popular or not... while I do not agree with how she goes about it, she's got moxy and that's commendable.
Fleurs is alright, though her merchant hunting can be understandably annoying. We've got plenty of threads on that already.
Krakii... well, the best thing he ever did was create krakiipedia and then never get involved with it.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...9522ea3461.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Jhynnifer
I read that in an old timey gangster voice.
He didn't create it. Then-GM Naos did, and named it after him, b/c at the time, Krakii was considered a font of information about the game. The game's changed so much since then, that pretty much a lot of his knowledge is completely out of date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taernath
Can't compete with people who live for the game.
Most of what Fleurs says on the forums is factually correct. The problem is people get butthurt over how she says it, because everyone is easily butthurt over everything and are more worried about how someone says something than what they're saying. I'm not gonna out her on this, but she had a much larger impact on the Lumnis average than people think (she plays more than just Fleurs, to the point where if everything else about the next Lumnis contest remains the same except for her participation, the average will drop dramatically), and I agree with her predictions about what will happen in the next round. People seem to think if they just hunt like normal but mash the keyboard a little faster, they'll top the charts like nothing, and the whole "socialism" argument for the Lumnis contest is pretty spot on too, which was the first thing I thought of when I read the exp change announcement. The average is going to go way down on the next contest if it's done without any changes being made because the top earners, who jump through all sorts of hoops to max their Lumnis exp, are being "rewarded" with a nerf to their own exp gain.
I'm lazy as fuck when it comes to min/maxing exp, so this Lumnis change will probably benefit me a lot, but I still think its current implementation is stupid since it does nothing to reward the top earners that are doing most of the work that everyone else is benefitting from.
That's because she has usually explained the same thing 4782904723809 times by the time she says that. Anyone that's been keeping up with the wizard forums since summer 2015 should know this. She'll explain something, someone will respond with a bunch of really shitty ideas, she (usually) explains why it's bad, then the cycle repeats 4823740 times until she gets tired of repeating herself. I wouldn't have had nearly as much tolerance for the amount of stupid shit people posted on the wizard forums. Whether people like her or not, there's a pretty good chance that she's forgotten more things regarding game mechanics across almost every profession than most of the people ripping on have ever learned about game mechanics at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maerit
Krakii though, yeah he's just cancer and will derail every thread into something about how something completely unrelated worked in like 1992, and almost every idea he posts in regards to game mechanics is far beyond stupid as fuck and he's basically still stuck in the early 90s and probably still thinks he's playing GS2.
I started responding to him like this:
http://i.imgur.com/XBGsTAn.png
Pretty sure it went over his head though...
http://i.imgur.com/Wf3Xdaj.png
I don't know that krakii ever had meaningful input on game mechanics / design. Just events, people / characters that played 30 years ago, and "well...in rolemaster...."Quote:
Originally Posted by Kembal
Still useful...ish.
Also, it's possible for krakii and fleurs to be idiots. I mean fleurs is complaining about the average being what...2k or less than the absolute max anyone got, which is apparently still higher than basically anyone has ever realistically attained and will continue to be that number for the next 12 lumnis cycles, without having to use any of the boosts/resources that were required to invest to attain that number.
But this is why the contest was a dumb idea. They should have just made it a static 25k bonus exp. Round number, near the theoretical max (that no one has apparently ever even really come close to), no drama. So its artificially high...oh no, an extra ~3-4k exp a week. Game's broken guys, pack it up.
Tell me more about how much you sucked at GS in 1997.
I also trained my ranger in lockpicking, which I also thought was for quests and shit instead of loot boxes. When I realized it wasn't, I sat in the east tower picking while I rested from a hunt. I'd keep repairing the same alum lockpick too and then wondering why it sucked so bad after a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
I think I only did 1x edged weapons for a while too. And by the time I quit that character at 25, I think I knew up to 609 and 103.
It was pretty bad.
I always thought it was Naos' way of not very subtly trolling Krakii by naming the largest repository of information after one of our most visible, but unknowledgeable members.
I kind of thought it was in poor taste, and was probably why they renamed it all when Wyrom took over since he's done a lot more to instill more systemic class than his predecessors.
Kinda sad that GS is so monolithic in it's gameplay that you basically have to start all over if you screw up your training especially during GS3 days. DR it doesn't much matter; be anything you want.
That's not the case in GS4, so "especially GS3" should say "at least in GS3".Quote:
Originally Posted by macgyver
I'm sure you know this already though and are just being a dick drinker.
Aww, sad troll is sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by macgyver
May have been trolling - could certainly see Naos doing that. Krakii certainly never caught on himself to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by m444w
To be fair, Krakii doesn't catch onto much of anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kembal
In a game with the small population we've got, I've become more tolerant of people who's play styles are different than my own. It's all water off my back and doesn't matter to me. I get along fine with both of them. Methais, that troll tho.
Is he a dick drinker or a dick shitter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
First he drinks, then he sharts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Androidpk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kembal
It's one of those "Why Not Both?" moments. I'm pretty sure the Krakiipedia name was Naos's recognition of how Krakii used to save important posts... and that Krakii was a crashing bore.
My favorite Krakiism was when people were talking about how loot pressure doesn't work anymore because people at lower levels tend to have an easier time making more silver because all capped players are shoved into the same hunting areas (this was before Confluence too.) So Krakii comes along and says something like back in my day we hunted for weeks just to be able to save up enough silvers to buy a vultite broadsword, and we LIKED IT. So the fact that capped players can make that much silver in a single day (about 20kish silver) shows to me there isn't a problem.
A close second has to be when someone asked a question about shields, oh man I wish I could remember exactly how this went down.. I think they were asking something about which type of shield they should use (tower etc) given their stats. And Krakii comes along and gives about a 7 paragraph response talking about how back in his day you used to be able to get the DS bonus from two shields if you dual wielded them and that's how he hunted and people always looked at him funny when he would hunt with two shields and he went on to talk about how much DS he got and he always hunted in defensive stance and on and on. So the original guy replies "Okay, can anyone answer my question?"
I wish I saved these posts.
I have no problem with Krakii. It's nice to have someone on the boards looking at things from all sides and not just jumping to "I want more, and since this isn't more it's not good enough!". I don't always agree with him, but I'm glad he's around to balance out the flame wars.
Fleurs....needs to post less. 50% of the event complaints seem to come from her. And during the wizard changes...dear god.
I always figured this Krakii person was a game mechanics genius or something simply because krakiipedia. Funny to find out it's the opposite
This. Krakii used to provide a lot of information about super old GM events and such. I think people tend to forget that the wiki isn't all about mechanical information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warriorbird
But yeah. Don't ever ask Krakii about mechanics. Please.
Why does everything have to be about the mechanics?
This is how I've always envisioned him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warriorbird
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y39P8PsGCNI
Why do you troll only in absolutes?Quote:
Originally Posted by macgyver
My first warrior, I got to about 12 on. I swung 2 handed weapons until 6, when I noticed that a imflass sword was way cheaper than an imflass greatsword, and I could afford the sword. I bought it and it was OHE. Now at 6, with the imflass bonus, and my strength bonus, I could still hunt the hobs just fine. It took me a lot of swings because a sword is a rapier, but I didn't mind. I slowly began to train OHE as I leveled. I don't know how the fuck I had the patience to hunt that character up to 12... But this is also back when people used to hang out in one room in a lot of the hunting areas, so we'd be chilling and killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Ghoul master hunting parties were the shit.
Okay. Like 99% of what you say is ridiculous... This one is quite funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by macgyver
Don't encourage him asshole. Now he'll redouble his efforts and post way more stupid shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbodog
This thread proves people are afraid to upset Fleurs.
I was beast out of the gate. I got to 27th on pay per minute/hour (I dont think we ever paid that phone bill). I hit like a truck and I had max stats almost around 675. I think I must have played for a weekend a few months before this so when I played for real I knew the stat marks and what class I wanted. It was amazing buying the first magical weapons after saving and damn I had a green one last time, but I can have matching blue vultite and it's +20...whoa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
Tree spirit parties were big time. Lady Kate and Sylvine.
or people have better ways to spend their lives than to bother with someone so irrational.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geijon Khyree
I've critiqued her pretty hard when I feel like she deserves it. It's more specific incidents than a general matter though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geijon Khyree
I like Fleurs. She was very jhelpful one year at EG with getting to merchants and raffles and stuff. Most of you fuckers are batshit insane on forums.
I'm not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
You're dumb and your scripts suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
Gelston is always a negative nancy; I think your contribution to the game is x1000 than the standard GS player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
Considering that she's usually correct in her assessment of whatever the subject is and articulates her points well, what does she do that's so irrational? The wizard nerf disaster predictions she (and a bunch of other wizards) made were pretty spot on, her breakdown of wizard problems is very accurate, most of her suggested fixes are solid, and I'd put money on it that the Lumnis average is going to take a huge shit in March if nothing changes with how it works, so what has she been so irrational about? Is it because she gets tired of repeating herself 49 times in a row to random idiots that don't know shit about anything but think they're an expert on everything, and won't do it for a 50th?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Fleurs posting style is blunt and to the point and often comes off as abrasive, but that doesn't make the points she makes any less accurate.
The problem is certain people (usually the same 3 or 4 people, most of which are complete idiots that don't know shit about game mechanics and post one complete shit idea after another) overlook the content of her posts because they'd rather spend their time making an issue out of getting butthurt over how she's posting it. The whole "it's not what you said it's how you said it" bitch made argument and all.
Fleurs and I used to hate each other until we actually had a real conversation. She's actually a pretty down to earth person if you sit down and talk with her instead of following her around all over the officials and trolling everything she posts and then scratching your head wondering why the thread got derailed. It would have gotten derailed sooner or later anyway once Krakii showed up but that's beside the point (though he's one of her biggest trolls too, but that's probably the case for most people on the officials in regards to him)
Most of peoples' problems with her are a) she doesn't sugar coat things in her posts and it offends the snowflakes on the forums, and b) she good at what she does, i.e. Cleans up at merchant events, knows most professions' mechanics inside out, min/maxes the fuck out of her characters, etc., and c) she doesn't back down from her arguments and doesn't give a rat's ass if she's popular or not with a bunch of self-righteous retards.
Didn't you warn interact Kaedra of all people at some point? Talk about being irrational...
TLDR: People don't like Fleurs because they're sensitive fragile little flowers, not because her ideas are irrational.
The two of you are arguing over 500 xp. The end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Despite the fact that I don't care about exp gain anymore since all relevant skills for my character are maxed, the Lumnis change is actually a huge benefit for me because I don't min/max at all. That doesn't change the fact of how stupid the way it works is, by rewarding the people who put in the most work with a nerf, or how ridiculous it is to see a bunch of noobs, most of who suck at GS, talking about how they don't see a problem with the new system. Of course they don't because they're benefitting from other people's work while putting in no work themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Good job proving my point with your response and ignoring every point made though. Not that I expected anything else from you because that's just your style, which is probably why nobody likes you.
Why did you warn interact Kaedra anyway? She's pretty much the nicest person ever. Someone would have to be a real twatmonster to WI her.
Feel free to address any of the points from my previous post btw instead of ad hominem attacks and making yourself look like a fucking idiot.
Kaedra is gr8, m8.
next time I have a big project that everyone benefits from, I'll make sure you put your appropriate amount of time in before you can reap the benefits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
So what you're saying is you're going to continue to avoid addressing my points and instead just puke out random bullshit. Sounds about right and you once again prove to be predictable as fuckall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
I assume that this fictional big project of yours will benefit others at the expense of a nerf to yourself though, right?
Why did you warn interact Kaedra anyway?
https://gswiki.play.net/Ebon_Gate_2016_shop_listingQuote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Yeah, my big projects are really fictional and don't result in me losing a lot of time and sleep. I'll drop you a line next October.
Methais pretty much has you pinned, you and a few others like you have chased everyone from the officials and some from the game because of your oversensitive bullshit. I think my personal favorite was having my comments deleted for using a persons forum handle name which turns out is their real name. Yes you read that right, they used their real name for a forum handle and then reported me for using their forum name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
The officials are nothing more than a small handful of GM dick suckers who don't have any spine.
I don't give a flying fuck about EG or pay events in general, and a good chunk of the rest of the playerbase don't either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Therefore your claims of that benefitting everyone are false. Excruciatingly false.
Why did you warn interact Kaedra anyway?
I mean I can keep posting links to different pages, but you really are a waste of my time. I've totally lost out on 500 xp with these posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
I too would like to know why you reported Kaedra, I mean I already know the answer because I have been targeted with the same bullshit in the past but it's still good to hear it from the snowflakes mouth.
As usual, you continue to not get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Nobody really gives a fuck that you think you're the GS librarian either. I get it that it makes you feel relevant and all, so whatever helps you sleep at night. In the end though, you are still your own biggest (and only) fan.
Are you going to tell us why you warn interacted Kaedra, one of the nicest and most helpful people in GS history, yet?
I would actually call it picking and choosing what they want to be available. I spent over a year chasing down old players who were involved with a past story line that has influenced a town ever since it happened. These people dug up stuff they had written, game logs, a couple even opened their old accounts just to give me items that were from that story line from 15 years ago. The information I gathered would have filled in all the missing lore and those that were involved on the wiki, I handed the stuff over and they basically ignored it and trashed the shit because they were not involved with it.Quote:
Nobody really gives a fuck that you think you're the GS librarian either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
maybe if you sat down with me and actually had a real conversation instead of following me around the PC and trolling everything I post and then scratching your head why the thread got derailed, you would get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
And there it is, same old, same old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Remember like an hour ago when I responded to your post about Fleurs being irrational and left the door wide open for conversation and you responded with your usual shitposting instead of engaging in said conversation and addressing the points made?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
But sure, let's sit down and have a conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Let's start with...why did you warn interact Kaedra?
PS: How can it be me following you around when I posted in this thread before you showed up?
Cool logic.
Why are you following me around all over the forums? WHYYYY?????
maybe if you didn't use homophobic slurs, I would consider you a decent enough person to take the time to answer, but I don't have that respect for you, nor is it what this thread is about. Also, it was like 10 years ago, haven't you gotten over it already?Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Why don't you quit hiding behind bullshit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
The Kaedra thing I'm just genuinely curious because how can someone have a stick so far up their ass that they'd WI her?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
And you're still so butthurt because I said "faggot" in another thread and are using that as justification for your cunting in this thread? I'm not buying that weak copout, and I doubt anyone else would either.
The difference is the "slurs" I say that offend you aren't meant to be taken seriously. Meanwhile, everything you say that pisses people off is done with a straight face and is intended to be taken seriously.
Thank you once again for proving everything I've been saying so far.
PS: Fag, faggot, fairy, cockmonger, pudding pounder, dyke, butch, pitcher, catcher, etc.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FBkMoF53P3...inker+bell.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/avHnbUZ.gif
is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
classy
This thread is super beef wellington.
Yes, yes it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Yes, yes it is.Quote:
classy
I thought you wanted to have a conversation? I keep making conversation and you keep derailing. Perhaps you should consider changing your name to Allerakii.
I've appreciated what she's done on the Wiki... while simultaneously retaining the ability to call her out on problematic development ideas and hypocrisy about staff responses. Both of you could avoid the SJW stuff. You don't have to post like two parts of three part Freudian psychological theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
I appreciate some of the things Allereli does. But she a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch.
I'm so sorry I've directly caused you so much harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
You don't need to cause someone harm to be a bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Believe me when I say that Gelston doesn't miss a single chance to call me a bitch in rep or in any thread. If you want to talk about message board stalking, I nominate Gelston for king.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
Hmm... Lets see what neg reps I've given you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Did you not cyber him or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
She turned me into a newt once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
Is that what you have to do to get him to shut up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Warriorbird
I've given Allereli 15 total rep since 2008, 10 negative, 5 positive. I totally rep stalk you though.
Gelston is like the fourth person you've nominated for Stalker King.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
What's that saying? 'If you run into an asshole in the morning, then he's an asshole. But if you run into assholes all day then you're the asshole.'
BTW, Allereli has repped my 19 times over the same period... If I'm a stalker with 15, what does that make her?
It worked for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
What can I say, you were girly enough for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Androidpk
Fuzzy Louisianan just doesn't work for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
It's usually the source of unspecified, repeated, Cartmanesque, "She's a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTCCCCCCHH HH" allegations though.
11 of mine were positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
Wait...really? Fuck. That explains a lot though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taernath
You need it to be specified that Allereli is bitchy on the Forums? Are you blind?Quote:
Originally Posted by Warriorbird
Because I'm not a bitch! Of course most of yours should be! I repped you a total of two times in 2016. The last one was only as a response to yours anyways, otherwise I wouldn't have done it either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Barring a few specific incidents I don't think she's any worse than Fleurs... which is how I'll disagree with the point she made earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
I don't read the officials. I'm talking about purely on here. And also, I'm not comparing them in terms of who is more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warriorbird
the funny thing is, you can say the same thing Methais said about Fleurs' posting about me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Ahh. I thought of this as all about the officials because of the thread title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
If we're talking about the PC they're both minor league compared to some of us.
I'll take allereli all day vs fleurs constant bitchery.
Nah, because I remember your all caps raging and calling large swaths of people dumbasses and such on LNet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
It's true... and likely why you ought to cut her a break and they ought to cut you one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Isn't that a good description of most of the people tuned into LNet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
I don't think she particularly comes across as bitchy, though I'm still salty for her turning down my Wiki suggestion of adding all the critter descriptions.
MUST RAGE!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
(Methais, that is not serious.)
the irony of some of Methais' argument is that my dislike of Fleurs goes back to me backing up a friend criticizing a GM and her getting really butthurt about it and completely derailing the thread. In this case, I simply think her getting up in arms over 500 xp and only 6 hours of experience gain is totally silly and making the officials unenjoyable and unproductive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warriorbird
I don't recall what you're talking about, aren't they already on there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Androidpk
Jesus, I just looked and it seems like they are. Either they were added afterwards or I'm becoming schizophrenic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
And now I'm having a major case of deja vu :|
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
You don't seem to understand the hoops the top exp earners jump through in order to maximize their exp gain. It's not just hunting like normal but mashing your macro keys a little harder and then hurrying up to the nearest supernode like most people probably think. Bare minimum it required max logic enhancives, which cost a fucking fortune, and then probably stockpiling gems and skins and bounty waivers and all that shit to ensure you're always pulsing while saturated on a supernode. And then doing it across multiple characters, which are also decked out for max exp gain. I don't mean swapping logic enhancives between characters either, but each one having their own set. That's an insane amount of silvers. Was she forced to do that? No of course not. But it's what the top earners and min/maxers do, so why should they not receive something extra for their efforts that everyone else is benefitting from for free? It's not just Fleurs complaining about it, other top earners feel the same way. I wasn't even top 50 because I don't give a shit about exp and I still think it's retarded even though it benefits my character. You don't have to be negatively affected by something in order to see that it's stupid. Not for normal people anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
Unless someone steps up to do all that across the same amount of characters Fleurs did this week (which was enough characters to make a significant impact on the average), then the average is going to drop by a lot, and the people ripping on Fleurs now will probably be the ones crying the loudest in March when the new numbers are in.
500 exp is hyperbole. Pretty sure I kept seeing that number change with you on the officials too depending on which way the wind was blowing, but I might be thinking of someone else.
If Simu wanted to benefit everyone without pissing off anyone, they should give the top 25 a bonus on their Lumnis average to reflect the extra exp they pulled in during the contest.
Everyone outside of the top 25 still gets the average that was set, and the top 25 get that + the additional exp they earned.
I'd love to hear someone make an argument against that without sound like a complete dumbass.
I used to play my XXX like that every week. I know exactly what it means. I have stockpiles of gems, skins and foragables from my Rift days. Doing it 1 week out of 12 to guarantee a similar amount of XP every week until the next contest is not a big deal if you have the time to do it, which obviously she does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Honestly I was shocked how many people thought the "don't leave town" concept was a revelation.
I assume you have max logic enhancives too? It takes more than time, it also takes a lot of effort and micromanagement to truly maximize. Staying saturated and pulsing on a supernode every minute for 6 hours isn't easy at all and requires a fuckton of silver (and probably Simucoins for bounty waivers, so real money is probably being invested to some degree too) and should be rewarded in a system like this Lumnis contest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
So tell me then, what would be so horrible about giving the top 25 a bonus above the average that reflects the extra exp they earned to set said average? Doing otherwise is just going to result in the average dropping more and more each cycle until the earners say fuck putting in all this work and jump on the takers wagon.
Would you be cool with your salary, which you worked hard to achieve it being whatever it is, being averaged with a bunch of minimum wage scrubs? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the answer is no.
Who would have guessed XP was such serious business :|Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
It's the seriousest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Androidpk
yep, and the bounty waivers can be free from login rewards, and you can get even more free by converting guild waivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
you're not equating apples to apples. Looking at the top 50 differences in xp I don't think it's a big deal at all. And I don't think so many people will abandon the effort. If anything more will join when they give the Sunday people more of a chance to participate.
The contest has been done once. They said they were not giving rewards to the top 25 at this time but I saw nothing that indicated that couldn't change in the future, after a few more contests. It's an experiment.
BTW I also did a +1 to getting rid of the contest and doing a set xp gain.
We'll find out in March. My money is on the average taking a giant shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
You're just a victim!Quote:
Originally Posted by Allereli
LOL.
Oh yeah, I was also up in this thread before she was... I'm apparently such a king at stalking I'm in threads before she is.
I'm thinking it'll likely just shart a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
It's going to be the biggest shart in Elanthian history. And some pretty big sharts have happened over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrathbringer
Attachment 8268Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
I went to insert an image but this came out instead.
Close enough:
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Stop hacking the PC
You said people who disagreed with your assessment of Fleurs were snowflakes, jealous, or retards. If that's opening the door for conversation, I'd hate to see what you consider shutting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
There is no having a conversation with the likes of Alereli, the moment you don't have the same viewpoint you are accused of stalking, harassment, sexism or any other number of accusations. It's a fucking virus that has run rampant through the Gemstone cuckmmunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrinsorm
The problem with Fleurs is her rate of posting and general repetition of the same point over and over.
240 anyone?
Sorry if facts offend some people. But that's most people's problem with Fleurs is they don't like her posting style and they worry more about that than the actual content of her posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrinsorm
Like I said, it's the whole "It's not what you said it's how you said it." thing. As a woman you should be well versed in this.
We have a 20% gap from 20844 to 26244 or whatever. I just cant believe we peaked on try #1 with that much ceiling available. The delta from top to bottom isnt maasive so its reasonable we could hit the higher range of 22K next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Max logic enhancives arent required but it seems like a max logic burghal gnome fed gems is the 26000 rating.
As a giantman warrior i figure 22.5 would be around my high end yield.
I figure someone good with excel and math could formula out all the log/disc race combinations as an XP maximizer.
I've just never seen a 1st run set the maximum bar before so its a strange stance to take. I get the reasoning. Fleurs 4 character and others like her are out so we'll trend down, but that isnt supported by human behavior and you general law of averages.
It seems like the new human condition. Communities in general are highly toxic. This last election topped it. Facebook. No mans sky reddit. League of legends, etc, etc, etc. People are incredibly jaded and over stimulated by data, info and electronics that shifts negative and makes your outlook skeptical or pessimistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neveragain
Fleurs has the sense of humor of a kitchen table.
I'm posting this here in hopes it will not be noticed by GM's. I plan to get a massive deathsting on all my alts that aren't frequently played. Then I can log them in, hunt once and let it suck in the free lumnis xp for hours.
I haven't been on the officials in a decade, I've got no dog in the Fleurs race. I'm just observing that what you characterize as "opening the door for discussion" is anything but. People might disagree with you because you tell it like it is and they're wimps, or they might disagree with you because you're just wrong; be careful of telling yourself only stories that have you as the hero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
The 240 thing was beaten into oblivion because at the time, Estild didn't seem to be listening to anything any of us were saying regarding Immolate being a pile of shit after it was nerfed. Side by side comparisons were made with 519 vs. 240/317/1115, both with combat logs and training requirements that showed how inferior Immolate was. Estild's argument was it's balanced for it to take 3 casts of Immolate vs. one shotting everything with 240/317 because we have Mana Leech. Most of it was predicted from the start when the nerfs and ELR details were announced last summer, only to be completely ignored and then proven true when the nerfs went live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geijon Khyree
I was probably just as repetitive as she was during all that, and for good reason, since GMs just didn't seem to get it at the time (or if they did they had a weird way of acknowledging it), but she was able to articulate it better plus she has more knowledge of other classes than I do to make better comparisons with, and raised a lot of valid points that would have otherwise never surfaced to begin with...like the whole 240 thing. 512 also, as Fleurs made the case more than anyone for wizards getting a CS based mass disabler, and that spell is awesome as fuck.
I'm not saying she's a model poster or anything, we're all fucked one way or another, but she knows what she's talking about as far as game mechanics go and if you can look past her posting style you'll find a lot of good information and reasonable points being made most of the time, and her suggested fixes are usually within reason and address a problem issue without being OP.
Imagine where wizards would be right now if we just took the nerfs sitting down and nobody raised hell over it. The 520 buff probably wouldn't have happened for one, since the only thing done to 520 in the ELR was giving it shitty reactive flares. Now it's an entirely new spell that's a million times better and a massive buff to wizard survivability. If that was part of the original plan then it would have been done during the ELR instead of giving it a useless flare, only to revamp the whole thing almost a year later.
I'm not saying that any one person is responsible for getting us post-nerf buffs, as plenty of other knowledgeable wizards raised hell and added a lot of good stuff to the conversation too (Whirlin, Dionket, etc.), but at the same time, if those issues were brought up only once and never repeated, it most likely would have gotten buried/ignored and gone nowhere and we'd be just as fucked today as we were the day the nerfs went live.
And on top of all that, we had to deal with Krakii cancering everything up too.
In the end, Estild and Konacon and them came through for the most part (though ironically nothing for Immolate yet aside from a slight concussion damage buff shortly after the nerfs rolled out, but I think it'll get something within the next year), and while still lacking a reliable single target killer at cap, wizards are in a much better place than we were when the nerfs went live in January, and we still have new 917 to look forward to, which was pretty awesome on the test server, and I don't recall that being listed as part of the ELR.
Sometimes being repetitive is what's needed, at least in the wizard folder during all that bullshit. I don't keep up with most other folders on the officials. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would have much rather spent all that time actually playing the game instead of making the case for wizards on the forums after Simu gave us the cactus dildo treatment, but those nerfs were pretty crippling when they first came out.
Know what pisses me off though? Gil is a pain in the fucking ass to earn on FFXV.
I just don't see the top earners willing to put in the work again just to be rewarded with a plate of meh, especially when they're investing more than just time like lazy exp people like me would be doing. I might be wrong but I still say the average is gonna drop significantly in March.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geijon Khyree
When people worry about how someone is posting more than the points being made in the post, they're doing it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrinsorm
Emotion vs. logic and all that.
Yea I definitely wouldn't do it again
Hopefully you're the same person who mentioned this on LNet, and we already told you how stupid this idea is.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantasm
You have to be in the top 50 exp earners to contribute to the average, in case you were thinking that tanking your own exp would have any effect in March.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantasm
GMs read the PC and Wyrom posts here now.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantasm
I didn't understand the contest either and also don't understand why three didn't just throw the max out there and let everyone benefit from a little extra xp a week. Too easy? Not complicated enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Donquix
What I don't get is why it's called a contest instead of a leaderboard. Semantics yeah, but contests typically have winners and losers. In this case the "winners" lose and the "losers" win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alashir
There is nothing logical or emotional about this dispute. Allereli has made a claim, that Fleurs is irrational. You have made a counterclaim, that Fleurs is rational. This is a matter of fact - there is no deduction that will reveal the truth of this, no reasoning, only brute fact. You have told yourself that anyone who disagrees with your claim of fact only does so out of emotion. This is (logically speaking) not necessarily the case, even if you are factually correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
I get that you very strongly believe you are right, but logic has nothing to do with the strength of your conviction.
Or a porn star.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taernath
It's the weed, man. Gotta be the weed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Androidpk
http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj...ado8o1_500.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by subzero
Isn't more XP it's own reward?Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Let me rephrase
If Simu wanted to benefit everyone without pissing off anyone, they should give the top 25 wealthiest a bonus in their bank account to reflect the extra silver they pulled in during the contest.
You want to give the 25 most prolific experience earners an extra experience bonus for being so good at getting experience?
Considering that they're still going to take a hit on what they could pull in before, yes. Otherwise where's the incentive? There isn't, which is why the average is going to take a shit in March.Quote:
Originally Posted by crb
There's an assumption that they're playing that way every Lumnis cycle, and not just specifically on the contest week. Considering Fleurs has talked about how terrible and unfun it was to crunch out that much XP on so many characters, and how much preparation it took to do, I don't think that's an accurate statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
Very much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by m444w
Now just imagine if they played "normally" during a Lumnis contest week and said they weren't gonna bother going through all that bullshit again to get high numbers. Especially those that had several characters in the top 25 this time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlin
Then watch what happens to the average if/when the current bottom 25 become March's top 25.
It'll benefit me, but I still think it's a dumb system.
That isn't even comparable, unless the average of the top 50 bank accounts is given to everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by crb
It's classic game theory. Yeah the top earners make more xp the harder they work, but they are expending a lot more effort (and resources if you're feeding gem bounties) to do so while everyone else gets the same rewards.Quote:
Originally Posted by crb
As opposed to not putting in the effort and getting less experience. Maybe it's not really a reward for doing well, but an incentive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taernath
When a game starts feeling more like work or a chore, people tend to stop playing. From everything i've seen of the process of maximizing XXX, it wouldn't fit my definition of fun.
Put me down for a Team Fleurs t-shirt.
I think the biggest thing that gets lost with this Lumnis Contest is the fact that the top earners never earn that much every week. Some never earned that much ever. In fact, the top 25 don't usually even hit the average (20844) every week. I realize the point can be made that it is feasible. But yeah...
1) Everyone agrees that to max out experience potential its just unfun gameplay. This is something that may or may not need to be addressed.
2) The apparently difference between prime and plat is that plat apparently came together and fed gems and waivers to people who had the logic enhancives to try and max out and make it easier on them to do so. To my knowledge, nothing like that happened in prime. If it did, would the top earners still complain after being given gems etc during that 6 hour period to achieve highscores?
3) The concept of lumnis itself is a bonus that many people now feel entitled too. You aren't losing any experience you earned because you didnt "earn" bonus experience. The experience you "earned" is the normal pulse and in no way shape or form being adjusted with these changes. Its funny how quickly people just pass up that fact to scream socialism etc while happily accepting their free obama experience.
Methais considering you have zero characters in the top 50 and you never try to maximize your Lumnis, I'm not sure why you think you have any expertise to offer here. I think you may also overestimate Fleurs' contribution as I think her entry for her main was good but not particularly amazing since I nearly matched her (#14) and I don't consider my entry to be close to maximally optimal.
Due to real life stuff, I didn't start my contest attempt until the morning of the last day and didn't do a very good job of preparing (e.g. started lumnis belled, only had enough skins saved for a handful of bounties, no stockpiled herbs), and I was able to get three characters (none of which are burghals) in the top 50. I was actually a pretty surprised that my third character made it in the top 50 as he had no logic enhancives and I was sacrificing his pulses to use him as a gopher for the other two. I am not sure why you think it "requires a fuckton of silver" as I spent zero and finished above the average.
As someone who did usually try to get a lot of my Lumnis before the changes and who finished above the average in the contest, I consider this a very positive change because I no longer feel like I need to go out of my way to alter my playstyle every week to maximize my exp gains. I often join the nightly capped Reim group, and I would sometimes skip an outing if I was on Lumnis because it wasted a lot of pulses off node. Now I don't have to care about that and with zero effort I get more exp than I did before the changes.
Sorry if you are butthurt by facts. I also think it is pretty rich that you complain about snowflakes when you are one of the top crybabies on the officials.
Free experience is being given out? Where do I sign up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
My understanding is that they used this "contest" to set the upper range of a curve on which the judge the difference between a casual player and the hardcore player. Lest you forget, if you ever even knew, that XXX was not created to allow players to earn more experience, especially power hunting players. It was created to allow casual players to keep up with power hunters. Period.
No one is getting any experience for free. You still have to hunt, heal, pick boxes. Experience modifiers everyone already gets are being adjusted on a curve now instead of on a straight scale.
If you're a person who has problems with reading comprehension and you read the release of this new way of determining the "experience gap" and thought that you were going to win a prize for hunting your ass off, you're an idiot. No such offer was made, expecting one reeks of entitlement.
Simutronics simply provided a leaderboard and a list to prey upon the innate need many humans have to see their name in lights. It works on my children, they get their jammies on much quicker when I tell them it is contest. Congratulations, you were manipulated, but you're an adult so you should have recognized that.
In exchange for hunting your ass off you gained a shit ton of experience. This is your reward. If you regret doing so you have only yourself to blame, if you think to pout and threaten to try to get your way and say that fine, next time you won't hunt at all and won't even try. Well okay, enjoy your little tantrum, no one cares.
Winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by chalion
.... What? Do you even ready what you are replying to before you go off on some giant rant and then say someone is throwing a tantrum? Never mind, I forgot how retarded you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by crb
You made a bad analogy, deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
What? You are the one who made the analogy. I was telling you how bad it was. You aren't even able to keep track of what you say apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by crb
I am wondering why I read any of this human word vomit anymore.
So glad you could weigh in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geijon Khyree
It's somewhat puzzling. I've found there's a lot of times where I enjoy the game more with LNet chat off too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geijon Khyree
I have LNet chat in a window. If it gets too stupid I just stop looking at the chat window. Everyone should do this, maybe we would have fewer people quitting then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warriorbird
I do similar. My window is just typically minimized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
Because even though the system will benefit my character, it's still stupid that those who work hardest are being rewarded with a nerf. It has nothing to do with expertise. If I wanted to max out my exp it's not like I don't know how to do it or lack the means to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWorm
This is because you have no actual idea how many actual characters she had in the top 25. It was a lot more than just her wizard and cleric.Quote:
I think you may also overestimate Fleurs' contribution as I think her entry for her main was good but not particularly amazing since I nearly matched her (#14) and I don't consider my entry to be close to maximally optimal.
Grats on helping to set the floor?Quote:
Due to real life stuff, I didn't start my contest attempt until the morning of the last day and didn't do a very good job of preparing (e.g. started lumnis belled, only had enough skins saved for a handful of bounties, no stockpiled herbs), and I was able to get three characters (none of which are burghals) in the top 50. I was actually a pretty surprised that my third character made it in the top 50 as he had no logic enhancives and I was sacrificing his pulses to use him as a gopher for the other two.
Because logic enhancives aren't cheap, and are also required in order to max out your exp. And then the potential cost of stockpiling gems and skins if you're buying them, and possibly Simucoins for bounty vouchers on top of it if you don't have login rewards saved up.Quote:
I am not sure why you think it "requires a fuckton of silver" as I spent zero and finished above the average.
Because complaining about stupid mechanics changes like the butchering wizards got = crying right?Quote:
Sorry if you are butthurt by facts. I also think it is pretty rich that you complain about snowflakes when you are one of the top crybabies on the officials.
I'm not sure which "facts" you're referring to that you think I'm butthurt over, but I think it's pretty rich that you're sitting here telling me I don't have any "expertise" to offer, yet you don't know why heavy silver investments are usually required to max out your exp, which just about any noob knows. Even SK8MOM probably knew that.
Please tell us more about your expertise in March when the average tubgirls all over the place.
You are actually making my point. If you were maximizing exp gains before the changes, you already had logic enhancives and a gem/skin stockpile. There is no incremental cost to using what you already have available. Since they gave us a heads up about the contest, it was pretty easy to save a few bounty boost if you planned ahead and even more so for the March contest.
I can tell you are getting off on being Fleurs' white knight, but it highlights your ignorance when you poorly advocate a position for someone else. I am "one of the people who worked the hardest" and I consider this an improvement, not a nerf.
If you are such a baller at exp gains, why don't you actually make an attempt in March? I'm sure you will come up with some imaginary excuse about the silver cost to avoid it though.
Maybe you should just go back to the officials and cry more about how GS is too hard because you can't one shot immolate everything.
No, you said that my analogy of giving the richest people even more silver (which is accurate) would only hold true if we were talking about giving everyone the average of the 50 largest bank accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelston
Considering no one is being given a gift of free experience your analogy is false.
Lumnis was implemented to allow casual players to keep up with power hunters. It was a flat amount, but doing it as a dynamic system would really be best. There are things that occurred after it's implementation, such as the bounty system, that sped up experience gain further for power hunters.
Hunting pressure is a good example of a dynamic system, the more a creature is hunted, the less treasure it has.
So GMs felt the static Lumnis system wasn't keeping up, and they felt that a dynamic system would perform better, but to truly know how much help the casual player needed they needed to know how much experience the power hunter was getting. So they devised this little "contest" to measure that value.
They're now adjusting the modifier in a dynamic way to achieve the predefined ratio they have in their head of the competitiveness of the casual player vs the power hunter.
No one is being given free experience, no one is having experience taken away from them. This system now works very similar to how the hunting pressure works, only more individualized. The less you hunt, the more you get per kill, which was always the intention.
Saying you want those top power hunters to have every more experience because they're so good at getting experience is like saying you want someone getting the most treasure to get even more treasure because they're so good at getting treasure which is not the same thing as saying give every player the average of the 50 largest bank accounts in game.
This need not be so complicated, think on it thoroughly.
Where once did I say anyone was being given free experience? I look back and realize you were probably trying to pretend Methais was saying the stuff you had in italics though. We're arguing the same bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by crb
I just untune it. Every once in a great while I'll tune back in, for old time's sake or because hearing half an interesting convo is no fun. It lasts -maybe- half an hour before I have to shut it off again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
If only the game had an ;ignore function that didn't cause so many issues. =(
The return for those who put in the most work is going to become less under this system because of those who are at the bottom pulling down the average and setting the floor yet still benefiting from the work of the top earners did to set the ceiling. I don't have a problem with people benefiting off of that, but I also don't think that the top earners should be forced to take a hit on what they earned to help set the ceiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWorm
That totally makes me a terrible person, I know.
Yes, totally white knighting. Except for the fact that it could be anyone else instead of Fleurs and I'd be saying the same thing. It could be Warclaidhm. It could even be you. It is an improvement for most people. It's an improvement for everyone except for those who put in the most work. And when March rolls around, the average will go down for that very reason.Quote:
I can tell you are getting off on being Fleurs' white knight, but it highlights your ignorance when you poorly advocate a position for someone else. I am "one of the people who worked the hardest" and I consider this an improvement, not a nerf.
You said you were in the top 50 earlier, so I assume that means you were in the bottom 25 or else you probably would have said top 25. If this is correct, then no you weren't "one of the people who worked the hardest".
Between Fleurs and Zarston's characters, they accounted for nearly half of the top 25. Do you really think if they sit out the next round that the average isn't going to drop by a nice chunk? I seriously doubt anyone is going to step up to fill in for either of them, and it's proably a safe bet to say that some other top earners will sit out the next round too.
Why would I do that, when I could instead just sit back and watch the average take a shit because the top earners said fuck all this noise and then say I told you? Even if I was one of those people that only made it to like level 23 since 1994 and was the worst exp earner in the world, my opinion still wouldn't be any different.Quote:
If you are such a baller at exp gains, why don't you actually make an attempt in March? I'm sure you will come up with some imaginary excuse about the silver cost to avoid it though.
Breakage wouldn't have had any real effect on my character either when they put that back on the table. That didn't make it any less stupid or caused me to not post about it being stupid.
Feel free to link or quote any post where I said GS was too hard in any context, as opposed to saying that plinking shit to death with unreliable bolts is a lot less fun than blowing shit up with Immolate, along with side by side comparisons to other pures and their big kill spells at cap that are still on par with pre-nerf Immolate if not more powerful, and with a lot less lore requirements.Quote:
Maybe you should just go back to the officials and cry more about how GS is too hard because you can't one shot immolate everything.
Oh right, you can't produce any posts like that, because you're full of shit don't have a clue what you're talking about.
I've actually said for years that GS is one of the easiest games ever. Time consuming as fuck, but not exactly difficult for anyone that knows basic math or has a pulse.
Oh yeah, that complaining on the wizard forums (not just from me, there were plenty of others) that you're complaining about resulted in some shit getting fixed and/or buffed. You're probably either a Simu cheerleader or you don't know shit about wizard end game. Probably both.
Regardless, the only thing you've proven so far other than not knowing what the fuck you're talking about is that you're mad. So mad. The maddest.
I guess I don't understand why this is? Aren't they going to screw their own lumnis as well? Is it just that it's not worth it? (I don't read the officials very often.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
If they wished to try to influence the process, for instance. I'm really hoping the situation continues to evolve. Seems like a wasted opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhynnifer
I can't speak for Fleurs, as I think from our conversations that she had different goals/expectations from what I did. For the contest, I went super hard on my main, put in a lot of effort with another, and pretty much phoned it in with the third character. Before the contest started, I even shared all of my methods for scoring high on Lumnis, not saving any tricks for myself to keep myself high on the list because I didn't give a shit about where I ended up place-wise on it. I, being an experience hungry bastard, wanted the bonus to be as high as possible and hoped against all hope that I wasn't in the minority
When the results came out, I was disappointed. Even my third character was in the top 10. There was plenty of room for someone to overtake that one, but very few did. I found that I was one of only a small handful of people taking the contest seriously, and it made my efforts over the last week feel like a waste of time. It probably was, but that's life. I could tell from my pre-contest interactions with Wyrom that Simu wasn't going to budge from their initial announcement of only rewarding the top with their name on a list that people would glance at once. I was prepared to move on from the start.
I haven't felt the need to throw my hat into the ring because Methais has been accurately representing my side of the argument, and because I don't think that its something that needs to be re-hashed over and over. The long and short of it is that I feel the contest is flawed. There's no incentive for people to seriously fight for the top spots, and even if that situation WERE occurring, there's humongous inequalities between player potentials just because of race. I mentioned earlier that I went HARD with Zarston. I had a near flawless run with him, a level 215 pure bard, and I fell far short of my other character (who isn't even capped) just because Zarston is a half-elf and the other character is a burghal gnome. I even fucked up the gnome's start pretty badly. So if the point of the contest is pride, why even fight for that when the playing field is laughably uneven?
It's not like I'm going to hide in a cave and do nothing on the next contest. I'm still going to grind it out with Zarston, but I won't be playing like every point matters because as the record shows: it doesn't.
I do agree with the sentiment that the contest average is going to sink really hard next time. I'm expecting something like 2000-3000 experience less--and that might be severely underselling it--unless the community really comes together in a huge way that I haven't seen happening yet to share logic enhancives, gem stockpiles, etc. Even if we did come together, would it even be worthwhile for a top 30-50 to sink millions and millions of BPs into recharging logic enhancives for an extra 2500 exp a week? I don't see that.
I don't feel this comment is very fair. I spent the contest saturated, grouped, on a node, burned all my bounty boosts, lots of gems, and I didn't make the list, likely because I haven't invested in +40 in logic bonus enhansives. I also kept poor Leafiara very busy getting me herbs. I ran ;pulsetimer for the first time ever. I disabled my offline exp for the few times I had to step away during that 6 hour stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarston
I had maybe 1-2 hunts that I tried to do fast because I was running low on bounty boosts. It was also the first time I'd ever even used a bounty boost. That should tell you something about how casual my play style typically is.
I was surprised when I didn't make the top 50, and was pleased that the average was so high.
To say people like me didn't take it seriously isn't very fair or accurate. I tried, but I may not have the min/max experience to get it done like some of you. And I may not have realized that not having 100 logic would make that huge of a difference. Lessons learned, I still was impressed by the effort of so many. Just because you can get to 23k and others to 18 or 19k doesn't mean they didn't put in an effort or didn't even try.
I also don't have multiple accounts or the means to stock up on hundreds of skins and gems, though I do have a pile of gems I keep around as best I can on a F2P account, but their inventory is so limited it's silly.
Anyhow, you seem to assume everyone has your experience, or can mimic what you do based on a few posts on the PC. I am one who read your posts, tried to emulate them, and still failed.
Your apparent jaded attitude is what irks me a bit and makes me not want to put in any effort at all if I'm going to be told I didn't even care because I should be easily in the top 50. That's not accurate. That 6 hours was a miserable and fairly boring experience compared to how I normally play, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try again in March.
I don't want to get into fights with anyone over something that I've wanted to forget. It's the reason I haven't typed anything up to this point. I felt slighted by the whole thing, so my words are going to have a bitter slant to them. People were going to see my words and feel like I'm an entitled prick for putting in effort and then flaunting about how I'm better at something that I put a lot of time and effort into before it was a contest (I mentioned before that I'm an experience hungry bastard, didn't I? Ask Heartfire for a story about the lengths I'm willing to go for an RPA).
Let's just drop it, guys. Fleurs and I aren't going to multibox the next contest. It's just one aspect of the game nerfed for min-maxers. The experience count will drop a few thousand. The only ones who care will be a few people who righteously lift their noses alone in a room far away from you. Everyone else will still enjoy a bonus far better than they were getting before the contest thing even started. And, like in the last Grand Auction, Plat will make off like kings while the rest of us make off like people who have to stare longingly at someone who got the toy I wanted because I'm not Premium. God damn you Japhrimel! That flute was supposed to be mine!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarston
I don't think anyone ever put forth that notion that there was supposed to be.
They could have done this all in secret, no "contest," no "list," just an announcement "We will now be adjusting lumnis on a dynamic scale based on how a sampling of players hunt."
But they did us a solid, they dangled this meager carrot of another fame list (list with no importance), and called it a contest, to inspire people to boost the average. But in general they are not looking to help the populace as a whole to advance faster (as if this isn't already fast enough), they just want to help the casual players keep up. The average can go up, the average can go down, it is the ratio that matters. And giving a reward to people who are already at the top would actually make the ratio worse.
Contests typically imply competition. And those who do best in a contest receive the "best" prize, which is the opposite of how the Lumnis "contest" works. Leaderboard would probably be more accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by crb
Giving a reward to the top would result in more competition which would likely result in a higher average. Worst case, it gives those at the top more incentive to keep pushing which would likely raise the average some more, which everyone benefits from.Quote:
And giving a reward to people who are already at the top would actually make the ratio worse.
It would also make the contest a contest instead of a leaderboard.
Methais I already said I was #14. Sorry if reading is hard for you. My other character is my post-cap wizard at #27, so I have in fact played a wizard once or twice.
I was also surprised by the results and felt like not many people must have put in very much effort and those who did didn't have many logic enhancives. I think we agree that the so called contest could have been handled better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarston
I guess where we disagree is that even as an exp grinder myself, I don't feel like the change from time-based to bucket-based Lumnis was a nerf. For reference:
so at worst the average is right below the high end of what you were sometimes earning before the changes. In return, you are free to focus your minmaxing efforts on other ways of getting exp of which there are many. I think this is a positive change overall, but I get that maxing Lumnis was part of the fun of the game for some people. The results show that clearly the vast majority of the player base doesn't feel like expending that effort, but it is a totally valid way of having fun for those who do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyrom
If the average drops significantly, which is a valid concern, then that I do agree that it will feel more like something was lost. I think it would be best for the game if Simu is able to address this proactively and find a way to encourage people to participate in the contest.
:lol:
I understand why the top few multi-character top-25 people would be disappointed right now. I really do. But I am having a hard time understanding why the focus is so much doom and gloom and immediate surrender. I think a few things are worth keeping in mind, and they are all based around how extreme the measures to obtain a "max" Lumnis gain are to the average player.
-The top end earners who prioritize XP gain and aren't maxed on them yet grab up logic enhancives, which means that the average player who doesn't prioritize XP gain isn't going to have the silvers to compete or the interest in investing in it in Logic enhancives. They simply are not items that average players are going to have. But do the players who have those high logic enhancive sets know people they trust who could wear them for six hours? Could even one person with a full set coordinated with a couple of friends and help them both get Logic maxed?
-Everybody admits that the process to obtain a "max" lumnis is tedious and generally regarded as not fun. A lot of people already think that spending six hours sitting at a supernode isn't much fun, but when you take the requirement beyond that to include stockpiling gems, skins, herbs, vouchers, and waivers? I can tell you that going to those lengths seems damn near obsessive compulsive to me and I would never do that every week. But over months? That is an entirely different story, and with so much time, suddenly that task is little more than inventory management!
-I think that it's been shown now that the average player who wasn't trying to max their Lumnis not only wasn't trying, but didn't even fully understand how to. Since the contest was announced it's become a more openly discussed topic. It's now a community event rather than a solitary one. People who aren't focused on XP gains still learn about things they don't focus on through the community.
-With the amount of time involved in having a proper stockpile of resources reduced drastically compared to an every week thing, people can get group events organized. Get a bunch of people together one night and rotate through the hunting grounds that will give skins needed for bounties in those cities, get them swarming like mad, and skin away! Bonus for the ones that drop treasure too, might get some of those gems put away.
I would hope that we can all agree that doing all of the things necessary to max a lumnis every single week, especially for multiple characters, sucked ass. It sucked so much ass that people who don't have a borderline compulsive need to get a few thousand more XP simply didn't even bother. They might have stopped talking for six hours to sit at a table, but that's it. It doesn't have to be like that any more! Educate people, help people understand how to plan out how many of what things they need. Run Lumnis-related events with your CHEs. Share your knowledge. It's not a monumental task any more, and I think a lot more people will be inclined to participate than are being given credit. But...
Right now there are very bad vibes with all of this, and kind of an attitude that anybody not in the top 25 is basically a piece of shit who is ruining things for the best of us. Even people in the top 50 are being shit on. Thanks for setting the floor? Be better than that. The only thing that will be accomplished by that is making the people who didn't care that much about a few thousand XP before tell you to go fuck yourself and the few thousand you may have lost.
P.S. This is for the people who already compulsively gathered everything for a max lumnis every week. There is even opportunity in this for you. You're used to gathering and collecting like that? Keep doing it, but sell the stuff you don't need personally (hopefully at a reasonable rate) to people who would still rather invest some silver into buying a proper Lumnis stockpile than gather it themselves.
I thought of saying that to Zarston too, but later in his post he mentioned how big an impact logic makes with his example his burghal gnome, so I think he knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narthsin
Just for the sake of it, I do want to illustrate for anyone who doesn't see that...
I made it to #26 by taking it about as seriously as anyone could while not being capped, having no logic enhancives, and not being a race with a logic bonus. Let's say I did everything the same except that Leafi was a burghal gnome and her adventurer's guild badge could go up to 5 logic bonus instead of only 4 (at the time; I can get to 5 now), and we'll say there are 55 pulses per hour. That would be 165 base experience per hour, so 330 more bonus experience for three hours and 165 bonus for two hours. That's 1485 bonus experience and would have landed me at 22192 experience, just 47 short of #10.
I really wish I could have seen my score. I've done the math and I had to have been right around 18k. For me that's probably my top score, at least on that character. But not being near cap I'm sure makes a big difference too.
I wonder if its possible for them to add a verb for that. Like the fame list, it would show everyone for the current contest group. People could opt out like the fame list. Let people compare their scores from month to month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narthsin
If they created a new boost that was only available to get from the contest it might make people more interested. Like a 30 min double exp boost.
#1 gets 4
#2-5 gets 3
#6-10 gets 2
#11-25 gets 1
I am an experience junky. If there's a chance that I can get an RPA from standing in a room, you'll see my character parked there. When my weekly Lumnis came around, if I had the time to play seriously I suited up in a full logic set and I grinded. Anyone asking why there's immediately doom and gloom and surrender is because we've recognized, just like we recognized in the past how to maximize our bonus, that the amount of return we get for our effort isn't worth the investment.
Why did we participate in the first place? Because we recognized at the announcement of the contest that there was a chance here to break the system. So I broke anonymity to give myself credibility, shared how to maximize the lumnis bonus, and tried to spread the method to as many sources as I could. Some people with the proper resources did get the message and executed admirably, but not enough for us to break the system the way Plat will be able to. In this attempt, I put in three characters worth of work. Fleurs put in a hell of a lot more than me.
Like I said, it's not like I'm rage quitting. In the future I'll just participate with my main. Maybe I'll be wrong and more people will rise to the occasion and take the places or our alts. If that happens, I'll be pleasantly surprised. But I won't get my hopes up.
I don't blame anyone else for the results, so don't get your ire up thinking I hate everyone else for kicking down my castle made in the sand. We play the game different ways, and they both work. That's one of the reasons we all continue to play it all of these years later. The results of the contest are something I expected from the start, which is why I tried to whisper some increased incentives in Wyrom's ear. That failed, and here we are.