Trump Bans Transgenders from the Military

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Originally Posted by Neveragain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Paglia

She's been writing books and researching these topics for decades.

I can spend hours linking information that agrees with her.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse

Our society is in collapse, every sign points at it. Dudes in dresses is just a small part of all the red flags.

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While the Ku Klux Klan is often associated with the Neo-Nazi movement and share many of the same ideals, they are not the same thing. Learn your hate groups, n00b.

Isn't it funny how a supermajority of Americans support trans people in the military, but the regular board neocons seem to have a solidly uniform opinion? What could it be?!

http://i.imgur.com/Q0AIDAD.png

Ooh! I'd like to buy a letter.

Regardless of whether you think they should use different pronouns and wear different clothes, regardless of whether you think insurance should pay for their healthcare costs, you have to be a pretty shitty person to tell someone "you're not even good enough to die fighting for me."

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Originally Posted by Gelston

While the Ku Klux Klan is often associated with the Neo-Nazi movement and share many of the same ideals, they are not the same thing. Learn your hate groups, n00b.

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time4dung will be along any moment to inform us that she is currently grand wizard of 4 klans and knows hate groups better than we do.

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Originally Posted by Ashliana

Isn't it funny how a supermajority of Americans support trans people in the military, but the regular board neocons seem to have a solidly uniform opinion? What could it be?!

http://i.imgur.com/Q0AIDAD.png

Ooh! I'd like to buy a letter.

Regardless of whether you think they should use different pronouns and wear different clothes, regardless of whether you think insurance should pay for their healthcare costs, you have to be a pretty shitty person to tell someone "you're not even good enough to die fighting for me."

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You're retarded.

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Originally Posted by Wrathbringer

You're retarded.

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You're a complete and utter imbecile totally devoid of value to humanity. So, uhh, we're about even. Seek psychiatric care soon.

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Originally Posted by Latrinsorm

There are two important distinctions to make here: not all military are combat troops, and not all trans people have gender dysmorphia.

As such, the President tweeting that people who are trans would not be allowed to serve in the military is very different from tweeting that people with gender dysmorphia would not be allowed to serve in combat.

It's not having one's cake and eating it too, it's pointing out bright line distinctions that (crucially) pre-date the tweets. Distinguishing between trans and gender dysmorphia didn't just suddenly happen after the President sent these tweets. It happened literally years ago.

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I'm going to go ahead and assume you've not been reading the entire thread and, instead chose to cherrypick a couple. I haven't said I'm in agreement with the ban, I do have reservations. I'm not happy with what Trump did, he could have handled the situation much better.

My argument there is that Time4fun spent the better part of 5 pages arguing that transgenders should be allowed to serve because the ADA categorizing transgender as a mental disorder was only a legality for having health insurance pay for gender reassignment surgery but at the same time (because it's JUST A FORMALITY for getting surgery paid for) it's not really a mental disorder that should make them ineligible to serve. That's having your cake and eating it too. It's OK to label it a mental disorder so surgery is paid for, but when it comes to missing out on something it's not ok.

Her arguments throughout this thread have helped cement my opinion of the situation, instead of persuading me to see it differently. THAT was the purpose and intent of that post.

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Originally Posted by time4fun

1) So when you say "have your cake and eat it too", I assume you mean "Not be the victim of institutionalized discrimination and also be given access to a procedure you need?".

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I love how you twisted this around. It either IS a mental disorder or it's not. You can't pick where and when it's considered one and where it's not and think I'm going to take you seriously. I'm fat. I don't consider myself fat 4 days a week but skinny enough to wear a bikini three days a week because everyone should be allowed to wear bikinis.

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Originally Posted by time4fun

Is that really asking so much for someone who is putting their life on the line for their country? The APA and the US Military don't seem to think so.

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You're simplifying your arguments here and ignoring the nuance as well.

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Originally Posted by time4fun

2) What I'll counter here is- you can't decide that gender dysmorphia is a sign of being mentally unstable and unfit to serve when the people who made the diagnosis intentionally created it to avoid giving that exact impression (they are the experts, after all) AND when the military itself has backed that stance. Likewise, you can't argue that merely having a diagnosis that lives in the DSM automatically disqualifies you from service when there are other medical and psychological diagnoses that don't disqualify you or which are allowable upon a waiver.

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The ADA did it.

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Originally Posted by time4fun

3) Not all trans people are pre-op upon enlistment, and not all trans people intend to have gender reassignment surgery.

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Should I go back in this thread and quote where I said that I have no issue with post-op or transgender people who aren't intending to have the surgery but should they change their mind then they should wait until their contract is up. My entire argument has been that I believe hormone-therapy for pre-op transgenders adds too much risk to the situation to allow them to remain on active duty. If there are options (desk jobs, non-combat, etc) then that's a possibility, but then you're looking at more government money spent here to diagnose and give special treatment (finding places for them in non-combat roles, etc).

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Originally Posted by time4fun

What's not helping the argument is ignoring the nuance of the situation for simpler, inaccurate, arguments.


Biggest takeaway: If the US Military has already said that there is no reason to disqualify trans people from serving, then no one here should be arguing otherwise. They've been serving for almost a year with no problems- which means this conversation isn't really about the impact on combat readiness.

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Oddly enough, there's a whooooooole section of the constitution that gives us not only the right, but the freedom to argue anything and everything we want to. To let our voices be heard when we're concerned, unsure or disapproving of things happening in our country. But hey, our rights mean nothing when you're waving around your cause flag and shouting from atop your soapbox.

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Originally Posted by Gelston

While the Ku Klux Klan is often associated with the Neo-Nazi movement and share many of the same ideals, they are not the same thing. Learn your hate groups, n00b.

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Dude I don't even get it. Massive drug use, huge separation between the haves and have nots, vanishing trade skill workers, corrupt institutions, states threatening succession, riots in the streets. Sure signs all is well.

AFK need to pray to my Hitler portrait.

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Originally Posted by Neveragain

Dude I don't even get it. Massive drug use, huge separation between the haves and have nots, vanishing trade skill workers, corrupt institutions, states threatening succession, riots in the streets. Sure signs all is well.

AFK need to pray to my Hitler portrait.

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.... Did you quote the correct post?

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Originally Posted by Stumplicker

Would you trust Bill Cosby if he told you that you could mark the downfall of a civilization by "trans mania" without any information to back up that claim?

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I'd argue that anyone would after a couple of drinks.