Climate Change Report

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Originally Posted by crb

Here is my beef with the environmental zealots. It is all about money, and pushing forward social and political change they desire. They want scarcity of resources be it energy, oil from Canada, or food for the world through genetic engineering. They want scarcity as a tool to put forward the political change they're after. The various lemming joiners who push the agenda may not realize this, but the people at the top feeding them the bullshit do.

Personally, I find it offensive when a little brown kid dies because some douche from greenpeace prevents that kid from having access to GMO grain. I find it offensive when people have to endure a lower standard of living, including all the ills that come from that, because some loser doesn't want to give them access to available energy. I also find it offensive that these greedy tools are diverting limited funds from areas where they could be far better used. There is no argument about things like lead or mercury, imagine if all the money we're spending on CO2 (you know, what plants breath), was instead used to work on cleaning up things that actually kill people. Especially when you consider that we were all pushed into using lightbulbs that contain a mercury in pursuit of fewer carbon emissions. Yes, it is a tiny amount, multiple a tiny amount by the billions that have been manufactured. LED adoption can't come fast enough.

You know what people do when they have a lower standard of living? They cut down forests and use wood for fuel. Living green is a luxury and if you really wanted to get the world to exist with less pollution you'd not push for policies that retard economic growth. People living paycheck to paycheck don't care about dioxins, they don't buy organic produce, they need to be paid to recycle.

The opportunity cost of fighting this misguided crusade against CO2 is enormous. The only constant in the climatic history of the earth has been change, the earth has warmed and cooled and warmed and cooled repeatedly long before we had SUVs. It is hubris to think we're steering this ship.

I compost, I donate to save the whales, I walk when I can instead of drive, I recycle probably a couple tons of shit a year, my next house is going to have a pimping solar array and be hugely energy efficient. My #1 favorite hobby is gardening, I've literally hugged trees. So fuck anyone who thinks I don't care about the environment. Modern environmentalism is more about politics than science, or anything found in nature.

/rant.

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There is a report that says that it costs companies 1.75 TRILLION dollars in profits to cut their CO2 Emissions by 40% as required by new mandates. That's more money lost in the economy then the Federal government receives in income taxes. And while we are cutting our CO2 and costing our economy a shit ton of money... China is expanding it's CO2 usage, and loaning us money.

makes PERFECT sense.

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Originally Posted by waywardgs

It is hubris to think we can do whatever we want to the planet without ill effect.

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ill effect for who? us or the Environment? Baring someone figuring out a way to literally blow the planet apart so there are no rocks larger then a sky scrapper... the planet will recover. It will kill us off, it will take millions of years maybe, but it will recover. It has before, it will again. To think that we can affect the planet to such a point that it will die is insane.

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Originally Posted by Jarvan

ill effect for who? us or the Environment? Baring someone figuring out a way to literally blow the planet apart so there are no rocks larger then a sky scrapper... the planet will recover. It will kill us off, it will take millions of years maybe, but it will recover. It has before, it will again. To think that we can affect the planet to such a point that it will die is insane.

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For us, don't be daft. Do you want humanity to survive? Sure the planet can be a smoking husk, but what good does that do us?

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Originally Posted by Jarvan

There is a report that says that it costs companies 1.75 TRILLION dollars in profits to cut their CO2 Emissions by 40% as required by new mandates.

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Do you have a link to this report? All I can find is one that says it costs $1.75t to satisfy all federal regulations, a lot of which you are certain to support.

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Originally Posted by Latrinsorm

Do you have a link to this report? All I can find is one that says it costs $1.75t to satisfy all federal regulations, a lot of which you are certain to support.

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Just imagine how much wealthier those three people could be if they didn't have to comply with those pesky regulations... REVOLT!!! THE GOVERNMENT IS KEEPING THOSE THREE PEOPLE DOWN!!!

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Originally Posted by Candor

As such, I have problems with extremists on either side of the issue.

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Originally Posted by crb

Here is my beef with the environmental zealots.

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I wonder about the use of words like extremists and zealots when talking about the environmental movement. Or presenting a sober minded assessment by reconciling both sides of this debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=zORv8wwiadQ

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Originally Posted by Jarvan

Humans do have an impact on the environment.

Nature, has a way of deals with it. Frankly, you should be more pissed at modern medicine then at fossil fuel usage. There is a reason why most Climate People start looking around 1970.

http://i58.tinypic.com/116jhco.png

World pop has doubled since 1970. Roughly 700% since they started "looking" at climate data from 1880 on.

So.. want to save the climate? Kill 90% of the worlds population. Climate saved.

There you go, that is a 100% Valid response. So.. going to do your part?

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If you weren't posting disingenuous nonsense you might indeed have a point.

Just because a reduced population would be healthier for the planet does not somehow preclude us doing our best to take care of it.

We are capable of overwhelming nature in a vast number of ways. I hope that you also have a "way of deals with it." but I somehow doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

I hope that you also have a "way of deals with it." but I somehow doubt it.

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http://www.getbullish.com/wp-content...ad-in-sand.jpg

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

Or maybe, just maybe, you're also an extremist.

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You can refute his statements with some of your own, or you can continue to call names.

Oh, wait, it's WB.

Nevermind.

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Originally Posted by NinjasLeadTheWay

Solar Panels are next up, they pay for themselves after all. Here is a case we all should be concerned about:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/featu...0,2504133.post

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There are simple ways to live off the grid. Living in the middle of a town isn't one of them.